This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Justin Guarini: I always tell my students it's like everything that you want, whether it's the body of your dreams, the spiritual connection, your dreams, the relationship of your dreams, whether that's spouse, family, friends, or the business of your dreams, the career of your dreams, everything, all of that is waiting for you on the other side of your willingness to fail and oftentimes fail publicly.

[0:28] Alan Seales: The party clearly had started. We just hadn't started recording it yet.

[0:31] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[0:31] Alan Seales: And now unfortunately, uh, dear listeners, you've missed most of the best part of the party.

[0:36] Heather Vickery: It's like when you show up, you know, three or four hours late and everybody's like really hammered, and they're like, "Where were you? We were having so much fun, keg stands," and they just kind of get like kind of maudlin and you know they just want to like talk about all the serious stuff. So yeah, enjoy this episode.

[0:50] Alan Seales: I mean, but you know what's funny is we're not young anymore, Justin.

[0:55] Justin Guarini: And so the conversation was actually about parenting tweens.

[0:59] Alan Seales: It's true.

[1:00] Justin Guarini: Yeah, it's true.

[1:01] Alan Seales: It's very true.

[1:02] Justin Guarini: So you actually didn't miss it.

[1:05] Heather Vickery: He learned that somewhere, and he's like, "Dad, that's lit."

[1:08] Justin Guarini: You're six. That's cute.

[1:09] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's cute.

[1:10] Justin Guarini: But that's cute. Like with a lit, like some my nine-year-old will sometimes break those things out, and he has this little lith, the th lith that he does, and it's like throw off them. And like I'm like, oh, it's the cutest thing. And of course, we're I mean, the school's like, "We're gonna take care of that for you." And I'm like, "Oh I don't want you to, but go ahead."

[1:28] Alan Seales: Yeah, you have to, but you do. Uh but yeah, it's cool. It's just when we were talking about the 11, 12, 13 year olds.

[1:35] Justin Guarini: Yeah, as soon as my kids throw me, I'm like, "Oh we're gonna have we're gonna have a talk."

[1:35] Alan Seales: Kick them out.

[1:35] Justin Guarini: We're gonna have a kick him out.

[1:39] Alan Seales: Kick them out.

[1:39] Justin Guarini: Kick him out.

[1:45] Alan Seales: But I know it's coming because I say that to them. I'm always like, "Yeah, bro, come on, like yeah, eat your dinner, bro." And I don't because I don't, I don't know what it is about sun. I'm like, "I don't want to say son," and then I've never been a name user. 'Cause then you're like talking down. I've never been a name user. Do you know some people are just like, "Okay, Heather, Justin, I'm talking," but I'm like you. I don't know what it is. I don't like names are not my thing. Only when there's trouble.

[2:10] Justin Guarini: And then it's the whole name.

[2:12] Alan Seales: That's right, exactly. But then I have to watch myself because I'm like, "Oh," because I'll call my son by his full name when he's in trouble, but I don't want him to associate the fullness of his identity, his name, with being in trouble. So sometimes I'll I like to like throw a wrench in there and just be like, "Ashramel Goini, I love you so much." You know what I mean? Like just so we keep it, you know.

[2:36] Justin Guarini: I actually love that. One of the things a friend of mine taught me when I was pregnant with my oldest was to never like treat them like pets.

[2:45] Justin Guarini: Like, don't say you're a good girl, or we didn't know what we were having, a good whatever. Say, um, "Oh, that's it, that's good that you did that. I love this."

[2:54] Alan Seales: And just recently, my 16-year-old, I was like, "Oh, what a good girl." She was like, "What am I? A dog?"

[2:58] Justin Guarini: Like, you're right.

[3:00] Alan Seales: Yeah, you're right. We don't say that around here. But I was kind of being sarcastic with her when I said it.

[3:06] Justin Guarini: So I was glad that like that stuck. Anyway, isn't it crazy? They call you out now, too.

[3:10] Alan Seales: Oh, can't wait. I'm looking forward to all these angsty teenage things.

[3:15] Justin Guarini: It's coming.

[3:16] Alan Seales: It is coming.

[3:17] Justin Guarini: And you guys have boys, so I'm gonna claim it's worse for girls.

[3:25] Alan Seales: Just gonna claim it.

[3:26] Justin Guarini: Yes.

[3:26] Alan Seales: Yeah, I would agree with that.

[3:27] Justin Guarini: No, I mean it's boys is to boy boys are tough. But you know, I have my I have a 17-year-old, and you know, she's going through her big first big heartbreak and first big, you know, love of her life. And you know, and on top of that, you know, I think people, uh, teenagers nowadays lack a lot of coping skills that we were for better or worse forced to come up with, uh, and to create on our own.

[3:53] Alan Seales: Um and so it's interesting. I mean, I have no idea what it's like to be a woman.

[3:58] Justin Guarini: Um, and I will never ever try and explain that, but just from the outside looking in, it's always been hard, but now it seems even harder. My daughter was getting, uh, uh, pornographic pictures sent to her by classmates in elementary school.

[4:14] Alan Seales: What?

[4:15] Justin Guarini: Yes, yes.

[4:17] Alan Seales: They were like Snapchatting her things and like DMing her things and like I was like, you gotta be kidding me.

[4:24] Justin Guarini: This was in elementary school. This was happening on her phone. And I'm like, when did, uh, when did you get it?

[4:30] Alan Seales: So I can't even imagine.

[4:31] Justin Guarini: When does she have a phone?

[4:32] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's uh, she had a phone like sixth grade.

[4:35] Justin Guarini: Sixth grade, yeah.

[4:36] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[4:36] Justin Guarini: Well that's like one of those like that's what my kids get their phones when they turn 12. My oldest is about to turn eight. So I've got a few years.

[4:42] Alan Seales: He's asking for a phone now.

[4:45] Justin Guarini: Yeah, that's right. I'm like, no, there's no way.

[4:47] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[4:47] Justin Guarini: But he's got to play. He thinks you can play, um, uh, Minecraft on it, which is why he wants it.

[4:53] Alan Seales: And you can.

[4:54] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[4:54] Alan Seales: Yeah, but it's a crappy experience. Trust me.

[4:56] Justin Guarini: It's always bad because I'm always like, "Hey, play Minecraft with me," and I'm like, "Oh, okay." I hate doing it on the phone. I just get killed.

[5:01] Alan Seales: Before we dropped the, uh, pornographic images in elementary school, I was gonna make a really smart ass probably inappropriate, but I thought it was funny comment, which is like when these girls go through their first big breakup, you gotta make them a whole Kelly Clarkson playlist.

[5:17] Justin Guarini: Oh wow.

[5:19] Alan Seales: Wow.

[5:20] Justin Guarini: If anything says, if anything says, "Cut that out of the broadcast," man.

[5:25] Alan Seales: Wow.

[5:26] Justin Guarini: Hey, uh, that's so funny. Is it, uh, three o'clock yet?

[5:31] Alan Seales: That was up, lady.

[5:33] Justin Guarini: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I get my camera. I was like I got it.

[5:36] Alan Seales: Justin Guarini, Pet Me Up.

[5:39] Justin Guarini: Pet Me Up playlist.

[5:41] Alan Seales: That's it.

[5:42] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[5:42] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[5:43] Justin Guarini: Better than a Chia pet.

[5:44] Alan Seales: Better than a Chia Pet.

[5:46] Justin Guarini: Do I have an applause thing on here? Do I have to applause from heavy applause?

[5:50] Alan Seales: There you go.

[5:51] Justin Guarini: Thanks. That's one thing the roadcast is good for.

[5:54] Alan Seales: Oh my God. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Justin. I couldn't help myself.

[5:58] Justin Guarini: It's good. Now that you've gotten that out of the way, we can start the interview.

[6:02] Alan Seales: Actually, we should probably do that, actually, starting the interview. What do you say?

[6:07] Justin Guarini: So now we've got like a real intro that normally we start the podcast with.

[6:11] Heather Vickery: We do.

[6:12] Alan Seales: Okay, okay, okay. Here we go. Ready? Now, I need some applause. Start me off on my intro.

[6:19] Heather Vickery: You probably know Justin from the very first season of American Idol in 2002, or you may know him from his appearances on the Broadway stage, including Wicked, American Idiot, Romeo and Juliet, Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, and In Transit. He's Lil Sweet in the Diet Dr. Pepper commercials, the host of the Audition Secrets podcast, and was just seen down in Washington, DC in the out-of-town production of Once Upon a One More Time, a show inspired by the music of Britney Spears. He's a public speaker, a coach, an author, and a CEO. Justin Guarini, welcome to our wonderful little podcast.

[6:57] Justin Guarini: Thank you.

[6:58] Heather Vickery: So now no applause. I feel like we don't even know.

[7:01] Alan Seales: Well, you do something special to Alan.

[7:04] Justin Guarini: Yeah, that's how I feel too.

[7:06] Alan Seales: You do something special to Alan because somehow having you in the room made him completely forget that we were supposed to start with this.

[7:15] Heather Vickery: Hey everyone, welcome to Was It Chance, the podcast about embracing opportunity and taking intentional risk for your creative life. I'm your host, Heather Vickery.

[7:27] Alan Seales: And I don't know how it seals.

[7:27] Heather Vickery: And Alan and I started off a podcast about 20 minutes ago as two perfect strangers.

[7:40] Justin Guarini: Is this your line?

[7:40] Alan Seales: Now it's your line.

[7:42] Justin Guarini: Now, yeah, now it's my line is supposed to say who's with us today, Alan, but it's Justin Guarini, and I am excited.

[7:49] Alan Seales: So there we go. We've been talking to Justin for the last 20 minutes, so that's been fun.

[7:53] Justin Guarini: This is the very first podcast I've ever recorded in my whole life.

[7:57] Heather Vickery: So you're doing great.

[8:01] Justin Guarini: This is gonna be so great. When you get it, when you nail it, it's when you get it down, it's gonna be fine.

[8:06] Alan Seales: Wow, Justin has some magic on you, Alan. I've never seen you with this flustered.

[8:11] Alan Seales: I'm flustered.

[8:12] Justin Guarini: No, I'm well, I don't know. I just love I love me some jaguars, I gotta say, man.

[8:16] Alan Seales: Hey man. Look, I'm a part of the fam. I'm on the Broadway Podcast Network. Come on.

[8:21] Justin Guarini: Yes. Matter of fact, we need to talk about some of the other things that I want to do because I want to I want to do another season of Audition Secrets.

[8:28] Alan Seales: Um Audition Secrets and so. As I read off in the wrong place and time, your entire long bio.

[8:41] Justin Guarini: And a speaker is coach and author, and everything that you're doing is helping others. And I just want to know like where did that come from? Where what led you down that path?

[8:51] Justin Guarini: I'm just in that season. I turned 40 about four years ago. It's my birthday is on Friday.

[8:56] Alan Seales: Happy birthday.

[8:57] Justin Guarini: Thank you, Scorpio season. And yeah, like I just I just got to a place when I turned 40. I had an audition for a very popular show.

[9:09] Justin Guarini: And I had to learn some very wordy songs. And um the audition was very interesting for me because I'd never been treated with such disrespect and been just kind of tossed by the wayside by people who I know, love, interact with, who I wouldn't say were like friends, friends, but like acquaintances, people that I've worked with before.

[9:35] Justin Guarini: And I just was like, whoa, it threw me for such a loop. And I even questioned like, am I kind of done in this arena of musical theater? I just it really was so shocking to me.

[9:49] Justin Guarini: And once I got over myself and my own ego, I was like, wait a minute, you know, I think there's an opportunity here because if they can treat me like this, and I'm not at the top of the charts, but I ain't at the bottom either.

[10:01] Justin Guarini: And I spent the past 20 years building what I would like to think is like a really strong, solid reputation and deliver on what it is that I promise, and people trust me to go up on the stage and deliver their story.

[10:13] Justin Guarini: And I was like, if they can treat me like this, imagine what people who don't have the plethora of advantages and things that you read in the intro behind them.

[10:23] Justin Guarini: And so I was like, wait, let me see if I can take the things that I know and the people that I know and gather all the information on one of the most challenging aspects of our entertainment business, which is auditioning and specifically auditioning for musical theater, and put that into a book, put that into a program, put that into something that would actually help.

[10:23] Justin Guarini: And so for the past four years that's what I've been doing and it has been awesome it has been a roller coaster ride of ups and downs and everything between but it's just part of the legacy phase that I'm moving into.

[10:56] Alan Seales: I'm not done like that legacy phase but it's just part of that legacy phase and now now I'm really bothered by the fact that I too slagger in legacy wait uh uh there's this little organization called the Broadway podcast network which has a significant impact on our entire industry so how dare you sir belittle yourself and the work that you have done that's his protective measure just with the Broadway podcast that's I don't have that's mine too can we oh can we just really just sidebar on that because the a few days ago I'm uh along with a partner of mine we're producing a reality TV show about um basically helping folks really discover not just their purpose but take what it is that they really love to do and turn their passion into profit and so uh the person who was supposed to show up for us um my partner is this amazing marketer she's a seven figure business she helps people launch and scale business and then my job is to come in and help you know authors coaches uh people who don't normally perform get up on a stage or in front of a camera perform well the person from a very popular show who we were supposed to interview didn't show up and so instead she was like well let me interview you.

[12:16] Justin Guarini: And she has this magic that she cuts through to the heart of it. And the one thing that we found, one of the things that we found was that I am so often the first person to say that I'm self-deprecating, but I'm actually just trying to fail or to set myself up for the idea of the failure of it not working before it happens, so that I can avoid the pain of like hoping and believing and trusting that whatever it is that I want's going to happen is going to be great, and it not working out.

[12:50] Justin Guarini: So that's sort of like, oh, I'm not greater. Oh, this thing that I have done isn't all that great. I suffer from it too. And I'm here to tell you, Alan, stop it. You're you're wonderful. You have a huge impact. You have value. You deserve to be paid for it. You're amazing.

[13:06] Alan Seales: You do deserve to be paid for it. That's that's a true story right there.

[13:11] Justin Guarini: Justin, I would like to make a request for later in the episode, but I want to give you a moment's warning. I don't know if when Alan invited you to be in conversation with us, if you listened to any past episodes or you were like, I'm not. That's totally fine. I'm winging it. Um, but do you know James Harkness?

[13:30] Justin Guarini: He invented a song that has become a staple of our show.

[13:34] Alan Seales: You're just jumping right into this today, aren't you?

[13:36] Justin Guarini: I'm just giving him a warning. I'm giving him a warning.

[13:38] Alan Seales: Okay. Uh, it's called Shut the Fuck Up, Alan. And so anytime we have a musician on the show, I ask them to improv a verse of Shut the Fuck Up, Alan. And it just makes me really happy. So before we leave today, I'd love to invite you to do that. I'm just gonna do it. And it's it's one of those things that's best, you know, uh uh justice served fresh. So if any point when it feels organic. Just no pressure. When it feels organic sometime in the next 40 minutes.

[14:12] Justin Guarini: Correct.

[14:12] Alan Seales: To tell you just gonna wait to shut the fuck up. I mean, I can promise you at some point you will actually want to say it.

[14:21] Justin Guarini: So it's oh wow. This is telling. This is telling, Alan.

[14:25] Alan Seales: Yeah, I see how it works. Um, my podcast has been. So back, yeah, back to back to us. Um, no, I I am not I'm not good at the compliments. I love that I I love uh the two of you actually together because both of you are are about coaching and about um helping people be good with themselves and be forward thinking and not be self-deprecating.

[14:49] Justin Guarini: And um it it all it comes from a place, and I want to say uh everybody that I know that does this sort of thing, and they're not that many that do it well, like the two of you comes from a place, like you were saying, Justin, of personal experience of like I used to do this all on myself. I used to hate on myself all the time. And it and it was never good enough. And I I've talked about that all the time. And I get into it with uh with improv, improvers, improvisationers, um because uh because it's the devil on your shoulder, right? Telling you you're not good enough. And then when you you have to just throw that out the fucking window so that you can trust that what you're gonna say won't matter if it's good or not, because you have to trust that you're just out there and being present.

[15:35] Justin Guarini: You know, uh can I re can can I react to that real quick? And offer uh a bit of a a different perspective or just a slightly adjusted perspective. You know, throw taking that devil and throwing it out the window is one thing, but that devil has something to teach us. You know, um, I was listening to something the other day. I love T D Jakes, who's a great pastor, and uh he was talking about uh time he went uh up in an airplane and how uh there was turbulence up there and it was scaring him. And of course he lived to tell the tale, right? But what I mean by that is, you know, when we begin something, just like when you're taking off an airplane, usually it's pretty good, right? And the takeoff's usually relatively smooth, get up in the air, things are fine, and then the storm or the turbulence happens in the middle of the project, in the middle of whatever it is that we're doing. And we more often than not, we we land the plane, we get through it, everything's fine, we live and survive.

[16:33] However, that devil on your shoulder, that voice, that uh thing that gets in the way, if we embrace it, if we ask it what it has to teach us, if we put ourselves out there, for example, in the improvisation thing, if we just say, you know what, uh failure is a part of the process. Uh I don't know what I'm gonna say, but I'm just gonna trust it's gonna happen. And if it's something completely ridiculous, it's at least gonna show me how not to do it, how not to say it, how the things that I don't want. And so I I would say embracing that failure, embracing the the desire to fail and the and the way I'll wrap this up is by saying, I always tell my students, it's like everything that you want, whether it's the body of your dreams, the spiritual connection, your dreams, the relationship of your dreams, whether that's spouse, family, friends, or the business of your dreams, the the career of your dreams, everything, all of that is waiting for you on the other side of your willingness to fail and oftentimes fail publicly.

[17:31] Alan Seales: Is it just in the male version of me? Did I just hear myself?

[17:34] Justin Guarini: I might be.

[17:36] Alan Seales: You might be. It's it's a little weird because I watched that first season of American Idol, and it's kind of a weird thing for me to say out loud. I I bravery is my business. And so I I do what you just said, and and I talk about screw the idea of being fearless. That's why my book, which you can see behind my shoulder, is called Fuck Fearless.

[17:55] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[17:56] Alan Seales: Instead, embrace your fear, get to know it, befriend it, put it in your pocket, take it with you, and just do the fucking thing.

[18:02] Justin Guarini: I'm getting that book.

[18:03] Alan Seales: Aww, thanks. If you act just give have give me your address and I'll send you a signed copy.

[18:09] Justin Guarini: No, because I'm gonna support you.

[18:10] Alan Seales: I'm gonna buy it because you're running a business on charity.

[18:13] Justin Guarini: Then buy it from my website and I'll sign it and send it to you.

[18:16] Alan Seales: Good. I like it. Because they steal from authors.

[18:21] Justin Guarini: For real.

[18:22] Alan Seales: Yeah, exactly. Okay. Going back, going back to to 2002, uh, you were saying like embrace fear, uh, take it with you, learn from it, everything. Like you were thrust into such a public, public spotlight at such a young age.

[18:38] Justin Guarini: You were twenty, right?

[18:39] Alan Seales: Twenty-two?

[18:40] Justin Guarini: Twenty.

[18:40] Alan Seales: Twenty-one, right.

[18:41] Justin Guarini: Uh twenty-one. No, wait, twenty-two. I think I was twenty-two.

[18:44] Alan Seales: I turned twenty-three on tour.

[18:45] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[18:46] Alan Seales: Things of that time. And number one, yeah. I guess taking taking that experience, like, especially thinking back to early twenties, you think you own the world. You think you you can do no wrong.

[18:56] Justin Guarini: It starts when you're 12.

[19:02] Alan Seales: Apparently.

[19:03] Justin Guarini: Apparently, yes.

[19:04] Alan Seales: So like looking back at that time, like take us, take us through that those moments, those years, right? Like we're summarizing into into moments, but like you're you you were uh you turned if I remember the story correctly, you turned down your Broadway debut to go on Idol, right?

[19:21] Justin Guarini: And then Oh wow.

[19:22] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[19:23] Justin Guarini: So we'll start with that.

[19:24] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[19:25] Justin Guarini: Yeah, it's wild. Um, but we have to start from before then.

[19:30] Alan Seales: Well, we'll do like Quentin Tarantino. So 2022, uh 2002, rather.

[19:36] Justin Guarini: Um I am standing on a stage in front of 30 million people, uh, live on national television, holding Kelly Clarkson's hand, waiting to hear if I'm going to be the next or the first American Idol, right?

[19:50] Alan Seales: And what a lot of people don't know is that with American Idol, with all of the contestants, with rare, rare exception on those first few years at least, all of us had either semi or professional experience in the entertainment industry.

[20:09] Justin Guarini: Now, why? Because you can't handle the pace, the uh um stamina, the uh the poise, the whatever it takes in order to be able to, at the time, especially with because you know, now we have the internet and everything and and the world's a lot flatter. But at that point, there were 30 million people to 50 million people watching every single week and everything we did, and paparazzi was still like a thing, right? Like, and so it it every one of us had some sort of professional and semi-professional experience to get to that point, but nothing prepares you for the the rocket ship that is going from relative obscurity to on the cover of magazines on the number one show in television, period.

[20:53] Alan Seales: We're gonna take a quick break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[20:58] Justin Guarini: And now we're back.

[21:00] Alan Seales: What prepared me was the fact that I was and am the son of a woman who was uh one of the first people to start up CNN, and she was an anchor woman on CNN on the weekends back when people were like 24-hour news, what's that?

[21:13] Justin Guarini: Why she was.

[21:15] Alan Seales: She was like, she would go, and I would remember waking up at five o'clock in the morning watching her put on makeup and then watching her read the news, and then I'd go to breakfast with the weatherman.

[21:23] Justin Guarini: So I was always around the lights and the cameras, and and I I played on the set, um, the news set.

[21:29] Alan Seales: And so I was around that.

[21:30] Justin Guarini: My father um was chief of police in Atlanta, highly political position, would then go on to be in other political spheres.

[21:40] Alan Seales: And so I was dressing in tucks and tails at five and six years old, going and being around people.

[21:46] Justin Guarini: And so, and and then being a child of the South at that time, you're seen and not heard unless spoken to.

[21:51] Alan Seales: And if you are spoken to, you better know what you're saying.

[21:54] Justin Guarini: And when you shake someone's hand, you look them in the eye and you shake their hand with a firm grip.

[21:58] Alan Seales: So I was given all of these seeds to then grow into what it is that I wanted to do in the entertainment industry once I was inspired to do it.

[22:07] Justin Guarini: So that being said, and taking nothing away from the craziness of what it is, I was prepared in a way that I don't think a lot of people are for what it is that I love to do and what it is that I'm passionate about.

[22:20] Alan Seales: But it was cracker.

[22:26] Justin Guarini: Nonetheless.

[22:27] Alan Seales: It was, it was, because you go from zero to a thousand miles an hour and you're holding on for dear life, and I will credit American Idol for protecting us, especially that first year.

[22:38] Justin Guarini: They protected us from the paparazzi, they protected us from people just trying to find out where our house was.

[22:45] Alan Seales: Uh, they worked us as we should have been, and as we all were were uh uh contracted to do, but they took such good care of us.

[22:56] Justin Guarini: And here, 20 years later, I'm still friends with many of the people in that organization.

[23:02] Alan Seales: Uh they treat me like absolute gold, and uh I appreciate them.

[23:06] Justin Guarini: I love that.

[23:07] Alan Seales: Was that first was it chaotic for you?

[23:11] Justin Guarini: Uh here's so here's my random story, which I teased this on an episode a couple of months ago. I'm like, I we're gonna interview Justin Guarini and I have to tell my very tiny American Idol story, and I'm gonna save it.

[23:24] Alan Seales: Um at the time I worked at the W Hotels downtown Chicago, and we were very busy property, and I get this call um from this person whose email address I shit you not was at AOL.com.

[23:41] Justin Guarini: For real, right?

[23:42] Alan Seales: And she's like early 2000s. We need your ballroom on Saturday.

[23:49] Justin Guarini: I'm like like two days away.

[23:50] Alan Seales: And I'm like, no, no, we don't have I have events, you can't have the ballroom.

[23:55] Justin Guarini: And she's like, no, it's this, it's this it's gonna be a big deal, it's gonna be a thing.

[23:58] Alan Seales: I'm like, no, and I figured out later that it was the producers calling to do auditions at our hotel.

[24:06] Justin Guarini: And um, like I said, and I'm I'm actually not even joking, I watched every season until JLo left.

[24:13] Alan Seales: So from the very beginning until J Lo left, and then I was like, eh, fuck it, I'm out.

[24:17] Justin Guarini: Like I can't go back.

[24:19] Alan Seales: Um but I just think that's hilarious.

[24:22] Justin Guarini: And so then the world is small because here we are chatting, and um I I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about this, but I voted for you over Kelly Clarkson.

[24:31] Alan Seales: So there you go.

[24:32] Justin Guarini: I think you're very special.

[24:33] Alan Seales: Well, thank you.

[24:34] Justin Guarini: Well, I I appreciate that. You know what's very interesting when people say well, yeah, sure. A lot of people did, more obviously voted for Kelly.

[24:43] Alan Seales: But like I I look back on that and what was supposed to happen was supposed to happen.

[24:48] Justin Guarini: Because if I I think if I had won, I would have been a flash in the pan because I was not mature enough or savvy enough in the business sense uh to to really navigate that part.

[25:02] Alan Seales: You know, put a camera on me, put me on the stage. I got you.

[25:04] Justin Guarini: But at that time, I did not know about the business of show, which is why I'm always harping on that to a lot of the people that I work with.

[25:14] Alan Seales: It's like, listen, I just was at a private event uh yesterday singing in Chicago, funny enough.

[25:19] Justin Guarini: And um, yeah, and I uh this this 15-year-old came up to me and she's like, I want to get in musical theater.

[25:24] Alan Seales: And I'm like, hey, that's awesome. We would love to have you, but do me a favor, learn the business of show.

[25:30] Justin Guarini: Anybody can get up on a stage and sing and dance and whatnot, but if you really truly want to make it, quote unquote, you're gonna have to know the business of show.

[25:37] Alan Seales: And so I I just I think what was supposed to happen happened.

[25:41] Justin Guarini: It was great.

[25:42] Alan Seales: Obviously, you've seen Kelly take full advantage of everything that she got.

[25:47] Justin Guarini: And and I was on her show just before the pandemic, and I was like, so what what you're doing the Kelly Clarkson show?

[25:55] Alan Seales: She's like, you know what? I really feel like this is where I belong.

[25:58] Justin Guarini: She loves it, and you can see it because it's evident on the on the screen.

[26:02] Alan Seales: And one of my favorite things about Kelly is the fact that who you see on the television is the I mean, with the exception of maybe some mild cursing, it's the same exact person.

[26:13] Justin Guarini: Oh, she'll tell you, she'll tell you she curses like a sailor.

[26:15] Alan Seales: But like, uh, yeah, she's she she's the exact same person on the television as you see behind the scenes.

[26:22] Justin Guarini: And I think that's like you are too.

[26:24] Alan Seales: And and yeah.

[26:25] Justin Guarini: I am, I try to be as much as much as possible to be.

[26:28] Alan Seales: Put a fancy wig on you, and that's seeing this, I have a beard right now.

[26:36] Justin Guarini: It's because I'm about to go out and film the the seventh or maybe even eighth year of of Dr. Pepper.

[26:43] Alan Seales: And I I could not be more grateful for the folks at at Dr. Pepper and how they've just taken such good care of me and just given me so many opportunities to have fun.

[26:52] Justin Guarini: Yeah, so money.

[26:54] Alan Seales: That's definitely a little sweet money right there.

[26:55] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[26:59] Alan Seales: I want to ask you about how fun as a performer.

[27:03] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[27:03] Alan Seales: When did you no? So I didn't know. So I learned from you just now that performing is sort of in your blood, even though your mom was news, but that's performance, right? The same thing. When did you realize that you wanted to be on stage?

[27:18] Justin Guarini: Um well, I think I knew kind of early. I I but it was not a a conscious desire because my dad, it's my dad's so strange. Um, he was a police officer, only police officer in the history of the Atlanta police department to go from straight out of the uh as a trainee, straight out of the, I guess what would be the the the what do you call that? The academy. That's it. Straight out of the academy, hold every single badge up to chief. Only person do that, but he also was someone who was always around the record industry and the recording industry in Atlanta. And like he dated Gladys Knight for a while. Like, and I was like, hey, so it just became normal. And I mean, Mary Wilson from the uh Supremes, like I I was growing up around a lot of famous people, and so I got to see how they behaved, and it wasn't weird for me.

Like we we went on a uh trip to the Bahamas with a whole bunch of people, uh, including uh Mickey Howard, who was a big singer in the 80s, and Jermaine Jackson, like right when he put out, you know, Dynamite, which is one of his biggest hits. And so, like, all that stuff was not strange to me. But the moment I knew that I wanted to be the person on the stage was in 1986 in Atlanta Fulton County Stadium in the summer. Um, and Atlanta Fold County Stadium has since been torn down, and they put up Turner Field, it's where the Braves used to play. And that summer was so hot. Yet my dad, being in policing, uh, was uh the head of that the zone that this um uh the stadium was in, and come into town were the Jackson five as adults, right?

They were getting back together. It was called the Victory Tour, 1986. And so Michael was big, Michael was big, but Michael was not the 1990s stratospheric out of this world Michael that we know. So Michael's big. So Michael gets back together with his brothers, and I'm there in the audience, and the crowd is just electric. Everyone's sweating and stinky, but nobody cares. We are in this huge stadium. Uh you can't even do that, sell those kind of tickets anymore. So this massive crowd, the massive stadium, the lights, the sequins, the choreography, the bass, uh, and the kick drum rattling the back of your teeth. It was just so unbelievable. And I remember pointing at the stage and saying to no one in particular other than myself, I want to do that.

Clear as day. And I mean, it it just was something where it just hit me in the moment. And I was eight, and I did not know that I was planning a flag at the time. But it really truly was the thing where I was like, aha, I get it. I love this. This is what I want to do. And so then from eight all the way up until 22 and then beyond, I was doing the things that normal people do and doing all the school plays and going out and auditioning for this, that, and the other, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, and and I just didn't stop. And I refused to stop. My dad tried to make me go to university, and I went to university for a little while, and it just was not for me, mostly because I was lazy.

Because I had the attitude. Mostly because I had the attitude, what can school do for me? Like a jackass. But you know, you're young. Yeah, bro. Yeah, I brought myself. And like, and so it wasn't until it wasn't until um American Idol came along where all the pieces fit together. Because the reason why I turned down, going back to what we were talking about, the reason why I turned down my Broadway debut was not because I didn't want to be on Broadway. I mean, I had been going to school for musical theater and vocal performance, and I had been auditioning for the Lion King forever. And they finally called me and said, hey, we've we finally got the place for you on Broadway in the Lion King, in the chorus, 22, it's gonna be your debut.

Will you do it? And I said, I got this thing. I got this yellow piece of paper. They call it a golden ticket. I'm going out to LA. Can I call you in a week? And so I go out to LA and we're in Pasadena, the Civic Center, and we're doing the the top 126, and then it's the top 60, and then it's the top what 45, whatever it is. And I remember feeling the pressure. Oh, I gotta call up, you know, Jay Bender casting and tell them whether I'm gonna do the Lion King or not. And I had no manager, no agent, no one to guide me. And I was walking down the Vaughn at the Pasadena Civic Center, and I looked up at the stage and the lights and the smoke and the American Idol logo and the dais where the judges sit with all the you know the soft drink products.

And I uh you like that, yeah, just keeping it, keeping it neutral. And uh, and then I look over, I look over to I look over to the the orchestra section and I see all these people who are as exhausted as I am, who are like my you know, quote unquote friends and comrades in this war that we're fighting to try and get onto the show we've never heard of. And I just start bawling. I'm like start crying, and I'm like not a crier. I mean, I'm more of a crier now than I think ever before in my life, but certainly not at 22. I was not a crier. So I was crying, and I just I just look up at the stage, and this little voice out of nowhere, and I mean, I'm not trying to be woo-woo, I certainly I'm more now, but not then.

This little voice said, This is the this is it, do this. And I just listened and I called up Jay Bender and I said, I'm sorry I can't uh uh take this role. I I would like to do this other project. And part of that was is that when I looked up at the stage, I realized, oh my god, Pasadena Civ Pasadena Civic Center, this is where Michael Jackson first did the moonwalk at the Motown 50th anniversary. This is where so many of the people that I love that have inspired me to want to sing and dance and act and do all this stuff performed. And I'm performing on the stage. I can't give this up. And I didn't even know if I was in the top 30. I didn't know anything. I just literally stepped out on faith.

And 10 years after the lights went down on American Idol, my very first Broadway show, Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown. We had our opening night party at the Millennium Hotel in Times Square in the conference room where I first auditioned for American Idol. I mean, it was wild, the sort of 360 moment that I had. So it all worked out, but it was it was wacky. But I mean, talk about this this show is about embracing intentional risk. Talk about embracing intentional risk. I mean, holy shit, that is. Did you have a moment after were you always good? I was like, no matter what happens, I know this was right, or did you make that decision and then go, oh my God, what the hell did I do? Hell no. I didn't know what I was doing.

I was 22 years old. I all again, it's like intentional risk. And that's so interesting, especially now, right? Because we think intentional risk, but risk reward, and and I was being intentional in the sense of that I was willing to surrender in that moment, in that in that Pasadena Civic Center, uh, walking down the aisle, walking down the bomb moment. Like I was willing to intentionally risk this thing, this Broadway thing that I've been chasing for so many years, in order to have faith and trust in this thing that literally came out of nowhere and knocked me on the side. Again, I was crying. Not something that I did then. I had literally this little voice, I remember hearing it being like, this is right, this is the thing to do.

I mean, I grew up Catholic, which is, you know, very I love Catholicism, great, not for me right now, but like at the time, it's very much like you come to the church and you talk to a priest, and there's an intermediary between you and God, right? And and yet I was what I believe was given uh an intention, given a directive there, and I just surrendered because that was what I trusted myself enough at the time to do that. And it ended up working out perfectly because I don't know that had I gone through and what I mean, we talk about earlier, we talk about the storm and and and the problems that happened. Yeah, American Idol started off great, auditions were great. I was, I literally remember a certain someone coming up to me and saying, uh, we can't let you run away with this show.

So it was going great. It was going great for me. And then what happens in the middle of it, right? There's all these challenges, there's all these things that that go on, and then even after the show, you know, my record tanking, the movie, tanking, so many things, tanking. Uh and and yet now look, you know, through all of that, because I stayed in the game, because I kept doing good work, because I was kind to people and myself, and and I was intentional about all the risks that I was taking. You know, I find myself in a really great position to not only have a career of my own, but to now help other people create the the careers that they desire and deserve. There's so much to unpack about all of this.

Oh my God. I'm thinking about that moment, right? Walking down the bomb, and you get like smacked in the head by divine intervention. And all of a sudden it's like, hey, dumbass, pay attention. Stop second judging your second guessing yourself and be present. And that that goes back to the improv thing we were talking about earlier, right? It's if you think about trying to be funny, if you if you are trying to think ahead, it's just not gonna work. And I think that's that's incredible and incredible skill that you can i I think it's half half instinct and half practice rehearsal of listening and being in the moment, right? And all of a sudden realizing like if I'm gonna start trying to map out every single step ahead of me, then I'm not gonna get anywhere because I won't just let myself run.

I'm gonna be walking and crawling the whole time. Yes. Yes. And and and when we go to school or when we go to acting class or dance class or whatever it is, but especially in in in the musical theater programs in school, so much of the time is spent undoing things and uh ideas and concepts and crap that stands in the way of that connection. So much of it is is having to correct bad habits and and yet ultimately at the end of the day, some of the best improv people. And when I find myself in that flow state, I think we all do, i i the the hardest thing to do is to surrender, yeah, to let go, to not have control. Right. That's the practice. And it's so zen, you're like, oh god, right? Do I have to sit on a mountaintop and let water, you know, under the waterfall before I get it?

Maybe. But like, that's the biggest challenge is that intentional surrender, right? That you really being intentional about just almost having no intentions and seeing what happens. Yeah. Surrender, I swear that's my lesson this this year. It's it's been I'm 47, and it's been a lesson for a long time. But this year it's as if the universe has just been like pimp slapping me over and over and over again. Yeah. Surrender, surrender. Like, you can't fucking control any of this. So I know. And I want to. I really want to. I really want to. It would be so much easier for everyone if I could just control all of you, wouldn't it? We're the same person. It's really weird. Oh my god. Just let me do it.

It's funny. Yes, yes. Uh, I'm sure that's how many authoritarians felt. But um, we're not gonna go down that road. We're not gonna go, we're not gonna go down that road. Our country seems to be doing it just fine by itself. Uh now I have a tummy ache. We're gonna take a quick break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[39:58] Justin Guarini: And now we're back. What's something that you still have trouble with uh surrendering yourself to? Like with everything that you're doing now and everything you have access to. Yeah. Surrendering to the fact that it's not gonna work, the possibility that it might not work. Yes. Yeah, that it's that it it's surrendering to the fact that it's the doing of the thing versus the actual having of the thing that is really truly the the the gold and the prize. That still is just like, oh God, you know, and it's that it plays back into that thing inside me that says, you know, oh, well, uh I'm gonna be doing this new Broadway show, and you know, we'll see if it if it works out. Well, maybe, you know, unless that happened. It it's that hedge in my bets to say, well, you know, it might it might suck, and I might have spend months and and and untold thousands of dollars uh uh in my life making making this all happen and then get nothing out of it, right?

[41:00] Justin Guarini: And I might not vault my career to the places that I'm so desire it to go and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. So it's surrendering to the fact that it might not be what it is that I want it to be, yet it will still have been worth doing because I will learn so much about myself and the process and everything in the actual act of the state.

[41:20] Alan Seales: How do you decide where that was my question?

[41:23] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[41:25] Alan Seales: What you're asking, that was my question.

[41:26] Justin Guarini: All right, so how do you decide?

[41:28] Alan Seales: Heather finished my sentence.

[41:30] Justin Guarini: What you're gonna say yes to, even though you know you're gonna fail.

[41:34] Alan Seales: Like I said that.

[41:35] Justin Guarini: Or you know you're risking failure.

[41:36] Alan Seales: Was I right or not, Alan?

[41:38] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[41:38] Justin Guarini: Is that my question?

[41:41] Justin Guarini: That was a more generalized version. I was gonna ask specifically about once upon a one more time and leaving your family for months and months and months. But yes.

[41:48] Alan Seales: Okay.

[41:49] Justin Guarini: Yeah. Well, but I've done look, I've I've been down that road before. There was uh a show called Moonshine, um, which uh Robert Horn wrote, who is won the Tony for Tootsie. Um, and uh um some amazing country singers uh and writers uh wrote the music for and great cast. And I literally had to go to Texas to Dallas and leave my family for months.

[42:15] Justin Guarini: And my son, um, who's now 11, at the time, he got meningitis. And I had to FaceTime him while he was having a spinal tap. It was the most horrible thing. And the echoes of the abandonment, the echoes of the break in trust that happened in our relationship at that point still reverberate around our relationship now.

[42:38] Justin Guarini: I just took him to Chicago with me for this private event that I was singing at. And it was the first time in a long time that we'd had time just for the two of us to be together. And and and it was a little awkward at first, it was really beautiful, it was like challenging, it was all the things.

[42:53] Justin Guarini: And so I know that there's going to be challenges like that, right? And so whether it's once upon a one more time and I go down to Washington and I leave my family for months, making sure that they come down and visit me. Of course, that's it was a lot easier to get from Philly to Washington than Philly to um Texas with meningitis.

[43:12] Justin Guarini: But like, you know, that tends to be a no-fly, uh no-fly rule. But um, so yeah, it it it always is a risk. But again, we we talk about this podcast, we take intentional risk, right? What's behind that intention? There's planning, there's forethought, there's um really taking into account that it's not just about you, um, but it's also in my case, about my family you have too, and about my legacy and and whatnot.

[43:45] Alan Seales: So, yeah, how do I say that?

[43:45] Justin Guarini: Yeah, like do you have a go? Do you have a ghost thing? Because there is there a tell in your body or in your mind that you're like, yep, that's it. I'm gonna do that.

[43:50] Justin Guarini: No, no, there there really isn't. I I just it's what I feel strongly about. That's my tell, I guess, if anything. It's like I really feel strongly.

[44:00] Justin Guarini: And I think the organizational process for me is key. Um, if you see over here, I've got eight, I mean, on my wall, I've got a whole bunch of stuff where I plan out my year. Now, has all of that come to fruition? Absolutely not. Has a lot of it come to fruition? Yes, because I'm again intentional about where I'm going and why I'm going and what what that means, not to just me, but to my family as a whole.

[44:25] Justin Guarini: And so um, I'm in the middle of writing a book called Unshakable Confidence. And I have a framework that I I do around and I teach around confidence. And the four, it's like four key skills that you develop and apply to four key areas of your life.

[44:45] Justin Guarini: And so one of my, you know, the four key areas of of life are your body, your spirituality, your relationships, and your business. I will I so much of the content that's gonna be coming out, so much of everything is gonna be related around those four things.

[44:58] Justin Guarini: And so I know that as long as I'm intentional and I at least have a vision of where I'm going in my body, where I'm going in my spirituality, where I'm going in my relationships, wife, children, friends, family, where I'm going in my business, the the making, keeping, growing, and giving of money, not to mention skills and all that as well.

[45:21] Justin Guarini: Um, that I'm gonna be all right. I cannot dictate as much as we would like to, you know, what that exact path is gonna be like, but having the vision at least gives me uh a a place to to go.

[45:38] Justin Guarini: And then I just improv along the way. Right? That's it. And I have to sort of sometimes I just have to surrender to the fact that this sucks and I have totally fucked this up and I gotta go back 10 steps and go the next path but but in that again it's just like I could this bajillion platitudes but like I could say like Thomas Edison 10,000 tries to create the light bulb think about how much the light bulb and all affiliated products mean to our world today what happens if he would have stopped at 9,999.

[46:13] Justin Guarini: No he was of the mindset that I just learned 9,999 times how not to do it. But that one time completely changed the world and if you can do that and there's millions of stories like that and if you can do that then that's how you that's you know then yes isn't yes or no isn't the question it's it's who you become in the process of doing that thing.

[46:35] Justin Guarini: That's hard it's hard to shake off when when you have hundreds or thousands of failures what are perceived failures that then turn like that one more time right like that that's what we we get we were talking about this the other day Heather that that it was it's not FOMO that I have but it's fear of not finally what I call succeeding even though I have little trails of success along the way let just little ones look Justin just they're listed.

[47:05] Alan Seales: Well I I can't we're all rolling our eyes and Alan I can't or massive ones yeah but I don't feel I don't know I don't know dude like there's always there's always something else right because like I've never stood on stage in front of 30 million people.

[47:18] Justin Guarini: That would be fun.

[47:19] Alan Seales: Uh I would right it, right?

[47:22] Justin Guarini: It's not fun for everybody.

[47:24] Alan Seales: Well, I mean, I guess I like that.

[47:26] Justin Guarini: But that's an idea.

[47:27] Alan Seales: But wait, wait, but let me let's go deeper into that. You know, but it's not the standing on the stage in front of 30 million people that I think you really want.

[47:34] Justin Guarini: Because that's I don't know. I have my own thoughts about that.

[47:37] Alan Seales: But like, what is it? What is it that standing on stage in front of 30 million people?

[47:42] Justin Guarini: What would that give you?

[47:43] Alan Seales: What would that give you?

[47:45] Justin Guarini: Right? Because that's really what we're after. There's something that's a feeling we're after.

[47:50] Alan Seales: Right?

[47:50] Justin Guarini: What would that give you? There's a feeling we're after. There's a there's a uh a script inside our minds that would all of a sudden just play and we'd be like, It's supposed to unlock all the things that are hard about your life, right?

[48:04] Alan Seales: That's that's the perceived fantasy.

[48:08] Justin Guarini: That's the fantasy, right? Because really it just puts more chains on you.

[48:12] Alan Seales: Really, it truly puts more chains, more walls and and more people at you.

[48:16] Justin Guarini: So, really, what is that? What is that?

[48:19] Alan Seales: What would standing on stage in front of 30 million people, or what would your what would the Broadway podcast network being the number one uh network in on Apple, or maybe being sold to like General Electric for three million dollars.

[48:36] Justin Guarini: You know, like but I mean, well, what I mean, you know, we get into business not to make money, but to make profit, right?

[48:42] Alan Seales: So at the end of the day, like what would that give you?

[48:45] Justin Guarini: It's a little bit of legacy, right?

[48:48] Alan Seales: Because leave something for the kids, leave something for the world.

[48:51] Justin Guarini: Sure.

[48:51] Justin Guarini: Someone said something, something said something impactful.

[48:54] Justin Guarini: Somebody said something to me once about my own podcast at one point, and this one included, which was like, no matter what, you've got content that whether you're around or not, your kids can listen to it.

[49:03] Justin Guarini: You're like, this is gonna be there forever. And so I'd love that at some point they're gonna grow up and be adults, and they'll get to listen to me be a complete idiot on mic, and they'll be like, Oh, I didn't, I don't remember my dad being a total dumbass.

[49:16] Alan Seales: He was always telling me to not chew with my mouth open.

[49:19] Justin Guarini: Like bro.

[49:23] Alan Seales: I think though, bro.

[49:25] Justin Guarini: No, it's it's like it's God, it it's that whole fallacy of like money solves problem having money solves problems, but having money also brings more problems, and I mean there's yeah, big small.

[49:40] Justin Guarini: It's it's all over the place, man.

[49:42] Alan Seales: And so you keep telling me about the fallacy.

[49:45] Justin Guarini: We're talking about the fallacy.

[49:47] Alan Seales: Um so what I'm hearing is you you want impacts, right?

[49:51] Justin Guarini: You want to create legacy, you want to create impact, right?

[49:53] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[49:53] Justin Guarini: Great.

[49:54] Alan Seales: That's what it is.

[49:54] Justin Guarini: Do you think that you don't already create impact?

[49:58] Alan Seales: Like in your brain, do you think you're not already creating impact, Alan?

[50:02] Alan Seales: I uh not not enough.

[50:05] Justin Guarini: Okay, so all right, so self-depth, not enough.

[50:07] Justin Guarini: So the answer is yes.

[50:09] Alan Seales: You do think you have created some impact in some way.

[50:12] Alan Seales: There are so yeah, yeah, yes or no question, dude.

[50:15] Alan Seales: Yes, I know I have created impact in some way.

[50:18] Justin Guarini: Okay.

[50:20] Alan Seales: What's the butt though in the ellipsis at that?

[50:22] Alan Seales: It may not be good enough, it may not be enough, it may not have hit the largest amount of people possible.

[50:30] Alan Seales: Like when there are I I don't know.

[50:35] Alan Seales: I I wanna I want to take, I want to funnel everything that is coming in and give back to to both of you to create to hire writers to to make more shows, to put more things on stage.

[50:49] Justin Guarini: The thing I I miss the most about the pandemic with Broadway being shut down, theater being shut down is that we didn't have art because art heals, right?

[51:00] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah, we did.

[51:01] Justin Guarini: We did make different art.

[51:02] Alan Seales: We did make different art.

[51:04] Justin Guarini: That's what we do.

[51:05] Alan Seales: I can't yeah.

[51:06] Alan Seales: All right, fine, fine.

[51:07] Alan Seales: I guess so, right.

[51:08] Justin Guarini: Like Justin and I have decided to tag team coach Alan here, which is kind of fun.

[51:12] Alan Seales: Uh but I guess my question, and then we could, you know, talk about Justin because he's here to be interviewed.

[51:18] Justin Guarini: Mike Mike.

[51:19] Alan Seales: I'm enjoying this.

[51:20] Justin Guarini: I'm enjoying this.

[51:22] Alan Seales: Do you believe that you can just like magically make that big tremendous impact that you so desire making without all of these small impacts that you're are hesitant to give any value to?

[51:39] Justin Guarini: No, no.

[51:39] Justin Guarini: And and I realize like we were just talking about with Edison, right?

[51:45] Justin Guarini: You have 9,999 failures. Uh, people only remember the one success for the most part, you know, I'm generalizing.

[51:51] Justin Guarini: But uh unless you've impacted them personally.

[51:55] Justin Guarini: Like I like Justin's shared a moment where he reached was reached by someone on that American Idol stage where that person came and said something really impactful, right?

[52:08] Justin Guarini: There was an impact in that moment that shifts you and changes you.

[52:12] Justin Guarini: So maybe not globally, but it doesn't mean it doesn't drastically impact one person.

[52:18] Alan Seales: And can that be enough?

[52:21] Justin Guarini: Yeah, I I love this entire conversation.

[52:23] Justin Guarini: Uh and I I really hope that that as you listen to this, dear listener, that you take away, you extrapolate what's going on in your life with this, because it's a valuable lesson.

[52:35] Justin Guarini: This is why I love sort of the over-to-the-shoulder kind of uh look at when when you know group like doing group coaching is really fun because you're taking care of one person, you're coaching one person, but the people who are looking over your shoulder while you're doing it are seeing themselves up on the stage or seeing their their own challenges, right?

[52:53] Alan Seales: And so with Alan, we said it at the very beginning of the the pod here episode here.

[53:02] Alan Seales: Um, when we talked about value, and we talked about that you have value and you deserve to be paid for it.

[53:08] Justin Guarini: And what I really, really, really want to stress, especially to my performers who are listening, is that we are taught, trained, and educated that we do not have value, or that our value is constantly under question, or that our value is is only as valuable as we can uh prove it based on other people's work, meaning however many shows we're in, or whatever hardware we get at whatever ceremony.

[53:35] Justin Guarini: And the the biggest thing that I want performers, the biggest lesson I want them to learn is to stop trying to make money, right?

[53:43] Justin Guarini: Because that's what we're always worried about. We're always thinking I gotta make more money, I gotta make more money, I gotta make more money.

[53:47] Justin Guarini: No, there are only two people who can make more money: the the government and counterfeiters, and neither one of them are really good, good at it or good with it, right?

[53:54] Justin Guarini: There's only two people who can make money. What I would encourage people to do, and what I encourage, and I'll get more specific with you, Alan, is to have you consider that it's not money that you need to make, you need to create more value.

[54:08] Justin Guarini: What do I mean by that? What's value? Value, in in this sense for me, is the solution to someone else's problem.

[54:16] Justin Guarini: That's value to me. And that's there's a reason why, you know, sneakers cost two, three hundred dollars, right? They're valuable to someone who says, ah, that $200 investment that I make is gonna make me look cool, feel cool, gonna amplify my social status.

[54:33] Justin Guarini: That's my problem. I don't feel like my social status among my friends or whoever they're not gonna buy into me unless I have those pairish sneakers, right? That's that value to me. For you, Alan, it's like you are creating a tremendous, you seem to be more impact driven than anything else, right? And we, I mean, we all love money because it just gives us more leverage to be able to do and create the things we want to create, obviously. But you're recognizing that you have some value. I would have you consider that you have quite a bit of value. But some value night before I go to bed. Yeah, but here's what I would have you consider. It's not that you need to create more value because you've done the thing that most people can't do, which is you've cloned your ability to create impact.

You've taken your podcast and said, hi, I'm gonna make a network of them and have X amount of shows and amplify your impact. Boom. That's great. And you have people who are creating impact because of you for you, and you're putting it out into the world. What I would have you consider is that what you may want to invest in is discovering how you can better uncover the value that you have. Because that's gonna be the difference between schlepping along for years with the Broadway Podcast Network doing really well, creating a bunch of value, making whatever profit it makes, and or really discovering how to uncover the value, aka the problem that the Broadway Podcast Network can solve for people and creating as much value as you can and uncovering that as best you can and as clearly as you can, and then presenting that in a way where General Electric, where XYZ Podcast Corporation comes and says, aha, I see your value, I understand your value, your value will increase my value or my corporation's value, and then everybody's happy. You know what I mean?

[56:35] Justin Guarini: And so the same thing for performers. It's like I don't audition to go in and prove that I'm worthy. I audition and I go in and I uncover and I clearly express the value that I am bringing. Do they want to partner with that value? No, great. Do they want to partner with that value? Yes, great. Either way, I walk out as valuable, if not more valuable, than when I walked into the room. And so that sales is clearly uncovering the value that you have in a way that makes someone say, Alan, your value is worth more than the money that I have in my pocket. Or whatever currency you would trade. I can't wait to read your book. You're gonna do an audiobook version, right? Because I'm gonna need to hear you. So just get better at uncovering the value you already have.

[57:25] Justin Guarini: How did you discover that for you though? Good question. Because I had to for the past four years, I've gone again, you hit that. It was the greatest thing that could have ever happened to me being so disrespected in the audition and through the series of hoops that I was asked to jump through only to just be shoved off a cliff and discarded. You know, I mean, that's my ego talking. But really, at the end of the day, I think that's a good idea. I felt bad. Just didn't get the gig. It felt really bad. It felt really, it felt like I was just a piece on someone's larger chessboard. And I know we all are that in some sort of way, shape, or form. But it was the first time it really hit me. So I was like, oh, well, how do I stop chasing the dragon, if you will, in terms of like, you know, that thing that we get into, that mode we get into is performance where we gotta, we just had to do more, bigger, better, and it never is good enough.

And which is why you see, you know, the Kurt Cobains and the Michael Jacksons and the Whitneys and the Elvises of the world happen, just to name a few. Like, how do I take control and I start to create revenue streams for myself? How do I start to leave that legacy and make sure that I'm not just suffering, that I don't stop suffering rather, but that I can help other people stop suffering. And so again, I started putting those questions out into the world, into the universe, and the universe, God, the world was just started feeding me answers.

[58:51] Justin Guarini: All right, one more quick break. Hang on a second. All right, here's the rest of the episode. One of the first sort of like little things that I created was the power of questions. I have this whole training that I do, and it's like so interesting because the questions we ask, and I think it was inspired by something Tony Robbins said, you know, the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your questions. And when you dig into that, so many times we ask, oh God, what's wrong with me? And your brain is the smartest, most capable, amazing organic computer in the known universe. And when you put a question into your brain, it regardless of the question will give you an answer. So you're like, oh, you do something, oh, what's wrong with me?

Oh, well, you're dumb, you're fat, you're old, you're blah blah, blah, blah, and your brain will spit those things out. And the more we do that, the more we create stories around that, the more we act on those thoughts and behaviors. And you know, and um, right, exactly, all that. And so I won't get into that. That's a whole pod for itself. But I just started asking better questions, and then I came across a whole bunch of just wonderful people, marketers, coaches, and just people outside of the entertainment industry who taught me so much about sales, advertising, funnels, marketing, optics, legal, all the everything. And I'm by no means a master at it, but it has completely changed my life.

And it now allows me to take all this crap that I've learned over the past 20 years in the entertainment business, 20 plus years of the entertainment business, and begin to market it with one of the most powerful things that I had not really understood, which was business and sales and how to get what an ideal prospect is and how it what makes me say yes to go seeing a Broadway show, what makes me say yes to buying a piece of clothing or being something, and if we can we can mix that together, and I if you can't tell, I'd like to. If we can as performers, we are natural persuaders, right? We do it whether we're telling someone else's story, we do it whether we're trying to sell ourselves to someone, not in that sense, but you know what I'm saying, or we do it, you know, we do it whatever we do in our side hustle.

And the more that we as performers, as entertainers, as people in the entertainment business can understand sales and marketing and advertising and put those facets together, the more that we can really truly, like I said, uncover our value and express it in a way that is so clear that that value becomes worth more than whatever exchange of currency that person we're trying to sell to has in their pocket.

[1:01:43] Justin Guarini: That just brought together so much that I've been hearing over the last couple of years. One is be your authentic self, right? When you go in when you go into an audition, embrace what makes you different. And you're gonna, you need to be able to figure out how to market yourself. I've said this for years is that when you've got these great kids coming out of these great conservatories who don't know, as you were saying, the business of show. So they don't know that they are their own product, they don't know how to market themselves, they don't know how to get themselves out there, and they come out at the top of their game from wherever they're from, and they just get eaten up and spit out, chewed up and spit out from New York because they don't know how to maintain the business that is their solo career, whatever that may be.

So bringing it all together, exactly what you said, man. Like you have to identify what your value is, figure out how to market it, turn it into your business and use what makes you different. What is unique about you that makes you valuable?

[1:02:50] Justin Guarini: What I love about that, and what I love about what you're doing, Justin. And again, it's we have very similar work, we have just different audiences. So I love it. Maybe we can collaborate on something sometime. That's just, you know.

[1:03:05] Justin Guarini: I would love to. I mean, obviously, it seems like it just makes perfect sense. So I'll read your book. And then we'll go back to the room. No, but what I love about the thing is you go to school, you follow the path. You find mentors, and you go, Oh, I'm gonna do it just like they did it. And what I'm hearing you say is, nope, fuck all that noise. You didn't use the F-word, but I use it a lot. You can't, you can't do it exactly like somebody else did it. If you're doing that, you're just being rote, you're just following the crowd. You are not standing out, you are not making an impact. But I think that there's a happy medium, right? You're right. You can't do it exactly like someone else did it.

But there is something to be said for not reinventing. Of course. There people have blazed the path for you, and you say, okay, I see how they did it, but then, you know, like you were saying, Alan, it's just like that it in business is called the unique selling proposition. Like, what is your unique thing, right? Like, it's like is McDonald's is not worried about Burger King, is not worried about Wendy's, is not worried about In N Out, is not worried about Shake Shack, is not worried about Sonic. Why? Because they all have different versions of the same damn thing. A hamburger is like a hamburger. You slaughter a cow and people like it, right? You slaughter a cow, you grind it up, you slap it on a grill, and you got a hamburger.

But what it's not the hamburger itself, right? It's everything else you put about it, right? And the experience, thank you. It's the bun, it's the kind of fry. It's all the little things that you put around said hamburger that makes it different.

[1:04:47] Justin Guarini: And yet it's just a hamburger. Well, you know, I go back to this episode of Friends where Joey's auditioning and he's in a black turtleneck and a black leather jacket and he walks into the casting office, and everyone else is in a black turtleneck and a black leather jacket. And how many times do we feel like that as actors and as performers and even podcasters, right? Because nothing under the sun is really new. It's just we are recycling and repurposing, you know, ideas that have been around forever. And so absolutely role model. Yes, not copy, role model people, but you're ultimately going to have to find what that unique thing is about you. And I know that's what you're saying. And so if when you do that, then, and especially if you can do it with authenticity, because something I learned probably for the past just like you, Alan, past three, four years, a lot of the sort of old world, I'm gonna keep my audience at arm's length, I'm gonna be mysterious.

That shit does not fly. People will tune you out. My 17-year-old totally lit me on fire one time when I put on Instagram like a quote that I had had, and I got like a some like sort of like stock photo of a little girl on the swing being happy, and she looked at it and she's like, what is that clip art? I mean, like she's not even supposed to know what clip art is, and she totally dragged me because what I was doing was not authentic, and I've never done it since. And it's the thing that the people who are 16, 17, 18 year olds now who are going to be your customers or the people who are in their 20s, if you think for performers, right? The people who are going to be in their 40s soon, who are Broadway's biggest customer, that 30 to 40 female, right?

They are not interested in your shiny, filtered BS Instagram photo and or story. They're not interested in it. And they're gonna tune you out. They're not gonna come see your show, they're not gonna buy your shit. They want to see the real. Because if they see you going through whatever it is that they're going through, ultimately they're gonna see themselves in you. And that's one of the greatest things you can do for people when you're trying to either influence them, impact them, sell to them, whatever it is, is if they can see themselves in you, and if they can relate to you and see that you too are going through this, but you have a plan, a map, a whatever, the strength maybe to help them know that they can do it, they'll they will buy, quote unquote, buy anything that you sell to.

[1:07:46] Justin Guarini: Wow. That's challenging. Shut the fuck up. No, I'm not gonna do that. I won't we'll get to that. We'll get to that. No, and that has that's been one of my biggest challenges because for the past few years, I've been really working on who is my audition secret stuff for.

[1:08:16] Justin Guarini: Like that's my favorite because they're just young enough to still be open, but they are just old enough to have had that like 17, 18 years worth of life experience.

[1:08:28] Justin Guarini: So when I'm like, hey, you're going out for Sweeney Todd and you want to be the demon barber of Fleet Street, you know, you don't know what it's like to kill someone, hopefully, but you know what shame and anger and regret are.

[1:08:41] Justin Guarini: It's like that's harder to do to the 12-year-old, right? So uh but not impossible, but harder to do.

[1:08:46] Justin Guarini: Just ask my 11-1. She said, don't shame.

[1:08:48] Alan Seales: Exactly.

[1:08:50] Justin Guarini: Mine too.

[1:08:52] Alan Seales: Exactly.

[1:08:52] Justin Guarini: Yeah, anger. My god, my 11-year-old's got it.

[1:08:55] Justin Guarini: So um, but but that's my that's my real sweet spot. But I'm still experimenting, and I'm still saying, okay, well, what about the kids who just got out of college? What about the kids who are in college? What about the people who are going to like all the the the unified's, you know, what is their audition experience like? So that it's it's very that's that's my challenge.

[1:09:13] Alan Seales: You hit it.

[1:09:13] Justin Guarini: So shut the fuck up, Alan.

[1:09:15] Alan Seales: Because you you hit my you hit my sweet, you hit my my my uh my sore spot there.

[1:09:22] Justin Guarini: Well, I could tell, I could tell by your face.

[1:09:26] Alan Seales: You were like, oh, come on.

[1:09:28] Justin Guarini: That's the question you're gonna do.

[1:09:29] Alan Seales: That's the one.

[1:09:30] Justin Guarini: No, but it's great.

[1:09:31] Alan Seales: I know.

[1:09:31] Justin Guarini: But it is, but that's the question that I am I am I'm very close to figuring out. Very close to figuring out.

[1:09:38] Alan Seales: Very cool.

[1:09:39] Justin Guarini: Hey, Ellen, but it takes a long time.

[1:09:41] Justin Guarini: That um that you got a TikTok thing going on.

[1:09:45] Alan Seales: TikTok TikTok.

[1:09:46] Justin Guarini: I can't, it's in my it's my Midwestern accent. James made fun of me for saying TikTok tick tic-tac.

[1:09:52] Alan Seales: Tiki text?

[1:09:52] Justin Guarini: Tiki tacks.

[1:09:53] Alan Seales: No, I can't say it at all.

[1:09:54] Justin Guarini: Yeah, tick tick. I actually like tic-tats.

[1:09:56] Alan Seales: Let's talk about your tic-tics.

[1:09:58] Justin Guarini: I don't do I have a TikTok thing going on. I don't, not really.

[1:10:01] Alan Seales: Ig reels?

[1:10:02] Justin Guarini: Ig reels, yeah. It's Instagram. It's it's the egg reels.

[1:10:05] Alan Seales: I was really excited because I'm I I'm a fan of the TikTok. I will have the TikTok.

[1:10:11] Justin Guarini: But shouldn't shouldn't you just take a record if you're gonna record on TikTok and put it on IG, isn't that what my algorithm gets a little assholish about that?

[1:10:22] Alan Seales: But yeah, it does.

[1:10:24] Justin Guarini: It does. But you know what? And then that's an excuse. Really, the answer is yes. I should. And I I went on a uh I have this like habit sometimes of going on like a real streak of things where I'm like every day, boom, boom, and that's what you have to do. But then I just get burnt out on it.

[1:10:41] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah.

[1:10:41] Justin Guarini: And so I feel like I that's why I like batching. I like batching, you know, whether it kind of obviously like podcasts, because like if I'm like in the zone, like I have this thing and we'll talk about it, Alan at some point. Like I have this thing where I'll get up at six o'clock in the morning, I'll do my whole morning routine, and part of my morning routine is I will bang out like two like mini pods, three mini pods, and like, yeah, great, uh and I love doing that, and then eventually I just I get tired of it.

[1:11:06] Alan Seales: I get bored of my own sort of thing. So that's why batching is really huge for me.

[1:11:09] Justin Guarini: But if I'm going like day after day after day after day after day, oh batching is the fucking best.

[1:11:16] Alan Seales: That's absolutely I'll do that with the uh with these episodes and with the other episodes, because yeah, like it's how it's how I switch between interests. Because like, yeah, the same way. If we do the same thing over and over again, it just it gets so monotonous, it's not enjoyable.

[1:11:29] Justin Guarini: Yeah, absolutely.

[1:11:31] Justin Guarini: So my run on Instagram was was good. I and I just did silly things, and I just was testing what is my audience really like, and they seem to really like on Instagram, they like dad stuff. They're like dad, funny dad kid things, which is really hilarious because like then I'll be like, hey, audition secrets, and like bung, bang, like they're gone, right? You know what I mean? So it's like, okay, I know for at least this account. If I'm really gonna get their attention, then I've got to relate it to dad things. I've got to relate it to funny sort of uh day and stuff.

[1:12:03] Alan Seales: Your audience is there on TikTok, actually.

[1:12:05] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[1:12:06] Justin Guarini: I I can promise you, like, there is an entire TikTok area dedicated to wanting to hear what you've been sharing with us this time. Uh because I because I watch it, because I see it.

[1:12:21] Alan Seales: So there's send it to me.

[1:12:24] Justin Guarini: You should just practice all of the what you just preached and get open the app and just fucking play. That's all you've got to do. Just put it out there and see. Because if you drop that knowledge that you just shared with us, like when you go back and listen to this episode, which is actually gonna come out tomorrow, which never happens, but that's just what's happening.

[1:12:45] Alan Seales: Oh, sweet.

[1:12:47] Justin Guarini: And you pull yourself out. Put it, just put it out there and see and see what happens. But one of the sound bites I really want you to be able to put out there is your version of shut the fuck up, Alan.

[1:12:57] Alan Seales: So, so Justin, because we could keep talking, I have a feeling for hours and hours, but we probably ought to wrap this up. Um, so now you can make my day.

[1:13:09] Justin Guarini: Shut the fuck up, Alan.

[1:13:09] Alan Seales: Watch what you say.

[1:13:13] Justin Guarini: Shut the fuck up, Alan and be positive today.

[1:13:18] Justin Guarini: Shut the fuck up, Alan. Give us some love.

[1:13:22] Justin Guarini: Shut the fuck up, Alan. You know we can't get enough.

[1:13:27] Justin Guarini: So shut the fuck up, Alan.

[1:13:30] Justin Guarini: Oh yeah. Shut the fuck up, Allen.

[1:13:35] Justin Guarini: Oh yeah. Shut the fuck up, Allen right now.

[1:13:41] Justin Guarini: But now shut the fuck up, Alan.

[1:13:45] Justin Guarini: Shut up somehow.

[1:13:49] Justin Guarini: I fucked up the end part. I was like, what about how do I run this?

[1:13:54] Justin Guarini: Don't have a cow.

[1:13:57] Alan Seales: Justin, thank you. This was so much fun.

[1:14:00] Justin Guarini: Hey, how can folks find you? Because you're doing so many cool things. Where do they they hear this and they're lit up? Where do they go?

[1:14:06] Justin Guarini: Yo, definitely. Oh, you know what? Just go to my name.com, bro.

[1:14:11] Justin Guarini: Yeah, yeah. Just go. You can find it's it's just at Justin Guarini, all across everywhere. Um, or Justin Guarini.com. If you're like, I don't know how to spell that. Just look up the guy from American Idol. What the hell? American Idol season one. Got it.

[1:14:25] Alan Seales: Yeah, season one with the hair.

[1:14:26] Justin Guarini: Yeah, yeah. Not to enjaya. Uh, and so yeah, yeah, that's it, really. And I'm just, I'm so excited because if you can't tell, I get lit up by these conversations, and I'm about to get the book, Fuck Fearless. Um, which is really cool. And Alan, I have a conversation to have with you about jumping back in with both feet to Broadway Podcast Network. I'm just, I'm so so so happy that we did this.

[1:14:49] Justin Guarini: And uh I look forward to to collaborating. This was fun. This was so much fun. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[1:14:59] Alan Seales: There you go, Heather. Your American Idol dreams all came true.

[1:15:03] Heather Vickery: Okay, so I was legit nervous.

[1:15:05] Justin Guarini: Really?

[1:15:06] Heather Vickery: Yes.

[1:15:07] Justin Guarini: And I'm like, why am I nervous?

[1:15:10] Heather Vickery: I yeah, no. I I don't know. I was a grown ass woman, much older than Justin. When season one of American Idol came out.

[1:15:21] Justin Guarini: Uh but um, I guess not much older.

[1:15:25] Heather Vickery: I got a few years on him. It felt much older. I felt like an adult and I was nervous.

[1:15:30] Justin Guarini: And he's so lovely.

[1:15:33] Heather Vickery: Oh, absolutely.

[1:15:34] Justin Guarini: Yeah.

[1:15:34] Heather Vickery: Everything, everything about him, like it's just, that's why we've we've made remained in contact for all these years. Everything about him just is very collaborative and inclusive. And it's there are some people in the industry, in the entertainment industry, that are just like, your success means I get less. And it's not like that.

[1:15:50] Justin Guarini: And he's not, he doesn't believe that either. And it's very much just like, okay, when he was talking about value, like what's your value? Okay, here's what my value we can work together and make it even greater value. I'm like, yeah, this is this is my dude. This is my dude. It's so cool.

[1:16:06] Heather Vickery: And I just love I mean he was preaching. I love you know what? He seems to have such a tender, tender heart because it's you we've talked about this, you and I, you deflect, you make jokes so that people aren't looking too closely. Because what if they don't like what they see? And Justin's like, oh, I see you here. I'm gonna tell you what I see, Alan, and was just not having it.

[1:16:32] Justin Guarini: Um and that comes from a real place of of tender authenticity, I think, and the polar opposite of toxic masculinity. Like, like I will be stronger when you decide you are strong enough. That's cool.

[1:16:47] Heather Vickery: Mm-hmm.

[1:16:48] Alan Seales: Yeah, I I the more that we do these conversations and the more uh just yeah, human connection that that we to try to connect with people who are completely still shut off for whatever whatever reason that is, right? Like there's just so much left on the table and so much you can't connect with.

[1:17:10] Heather Vickery: It was fun. We we laughed. We were, I don't know how long this finished episode will be once it's released, but we have been hanging out with Justin for you know, about an hour and a half, hour and 40 minutes at this point. We had a good time.

[1:17:24] Alan Seales: We had a good time.

[1:17:25] Heather Vickery: And you know what I also I love before we wrap up is um and I and I meant to say this to him. So I really hope that you listen, Justin. I hope you're listening to this whole episode and all the way to the end.

[1:17:38] Heather Vickery: Um reminding you that that part of being in control of the direction of your life is realizing that you have value outside of the the work that you've always been doing, right? So he's diversifying, he's finding ways to say, okay, well, if that audition doesn't go well, I got myself, I'm okay. And that you all have something in you. You have something that you can share that that the world will find valuable, and you don't have to constantly depend on somebody else to open a door for you.

[1:18:08] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm.

[1:18:09] Heather Vickery: Yep.

[1:18:10] Alan Seales: Well, I mean, you see all these again, the success stories uh like people making their, you know, writing their own material because they can't get cast. I mean, the the epitome of this is Lynn Manuel, right? So he he made his own shows.

[1:18:23] Heather Vickery: But you know, how much work, how many years, how much failure, how much unsuccess that you know that he's put out. And even even since then, there's been stuff that I've been like, okay, you know, like not my not my bag.

[1:18:38] Alan Seales: Um, but he you just gotta keep you keep going, keep trying, and then it yeah, like Justin hit hit the nail on the head, man. It's impact. It's all about impact for me. It's like I want to make a difference. And I hope that you do. And he has, and he did, and yeah, love that dude.

[1:18:54] Heather Vickery: And you do, and I need you to know that. And you will continue. Just because by the nature of how excited you are about creating for other people to be able to create. I mean that at the core of it, you invent things, you build things so that other people have resources to put themselves out there quicker and easier. And it matters.

[1:19:19] Alan Seales: Thank you.

[1:19:20] Heather Vickery: Thank you.

[1:19:22] Alan Seales: Yeah, but two of you guys, if you if you do like a coaching tour together, you're gonna crush it.

[1:19:27] Justin Guarini: I'm I'm ready to go.

[1:19:30] Alan Seales: Let's go.

[1:19:30] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[1:19:31] Alan Seales: Yeah, for sure.

[1:19:33] Alan Seales: All right, folks. Well, we hope that you enjoyed this as much as we did. We had a lot of fun. This was this was the most fun I've had in in a while because we haven't done an interview in a while.

[1:19:43] Heather Vickery: Uh you wouldn't know that. We release on time, but you know, we batch just like everybody else does.

[1:19:48] Alan Seales: So if you like it, if you are taking some intentional risk, if you are putting yourself out there, we want to hear all about it. Alan, how can they find us?

[1:19:59] Alan Seales: Oh the Instagram at Was It Chance, and uh you can send us uh uh an email at the Gmail.

[1:20:08] Heather Vickery: Email, email, at the Gmail Was it Chance Podcast?

[1:20:16] Alan Seales: I'm doing great, I'm doing so well.

[1:20:17] Heather Vickery: Doing great, yeah, doing great.

[1:20:19] Alan Seales: It's good.

[1:20:19] Heather Vickery: I'm doing great.

[1:20:20] Alan Seales: I'm doing great.

[1:20:20] Heather Vickery: No, I'm good.

[1:20:21] Alan Seales: What was it chance podcast at gmail.com. We really do want to hear from you. And if you like it, you know, that whole subscribe or follow or whatever it is on your favorite podcast player, and if they allow you to do the stars thing and write a review, um, we would really appreciate it.

[1:20:25] Heather Vickery: We would really appreciate it if you did that.

[1:20:41] Alan Seales: And we're so glad to have you here. Justin's calling me right now.

[1:20:49] Heather Vickery: Mr. Impatient.

[1:20:49] Alan Seales: Literally calling. That's so funny.

[1:20:53] Heather Vickery: He's batch it.

[1:20:54] Alan Seales: He's like, I gotta get it done, right?

[1:20:56] Heather Vickery: He's batching it.

[1:20:56] Alan Seales: That's so funny. Hold on. Let me text him, tell him I'll call him in a second.

[1:21:01] Heather Vickery: Uh you gotta keep this part in.

[1:21:05] Alan Seales: Oh, I will.

[1:21:08] Alan Seales: Okay, cool, cool, cool. I'm back.

[1:21:10] Alan Seales: All right, wrap her up.

[1:21:12] Heather Vickery: You've been listening to Was It Chance, the podcast about embracing opportunity and taking intentional risk for your creative life.

[1:21:20] Alan Seales: Thanks for being here. I'm Heather Vickery.

[1:21:22] Justin Guarini: I'm not very tired, Alan Seales.

[1:21:25] Heather Vickery: And still a wonderful one. We will talk to you all soon. Thanks so much.

[1:21:30] Alan Seales: Bye.

[1:21:31] Heather Vickery: Bye.