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[0:12] Heather Vickery: Welcome to Was It Chance, the podcast about embracing opportunity and taking intentional risk for your creative life.

[0:21] Alan Seales: I'm Alan Seales. Join me as we talk with other successful people about how they've created their successful success.

[0:29] Heather Vickery: Oh, I had it until the end.

[0:31] Alan Seales: You were doing okay.

[0:32] Heather Vickery: Join us, not me, because there's two of us.

[0:35] Alan Seales: True.

[0:35] Heather Vickery: Join us.

[0:36] Alan Seales: There are multiple people in your head.

[0:37] Heather Vickery: I get it.

[0:39] Alan Seales: Stop.

[0:40] Heather Vickery: That was the first time we've recorded that intro without our script, because you know, why not?

[0:44] Alan Seales: I know.

[0:45] Heather Vickery: And we did not do it very well, but I feel like we could do it if we actually tried harder.

[0:50] Alan Seales: That's like, uh, uh, uh, people who play instruments.

[0:54] Heather Vickery: Um, they, you know, they, they, I think they could—I'm gonna offend every instrumentalist out there right now.

[1:01] Alan Seales: Probably they could memorize it.

[1:02] Heather Vickery: Don't direct your hate mail at me.

[1:05] Alan Seales: Direct it to Alan.

[1:06] Heather Vickery: Was it chance podcast at gmail.com.

[1:10] Alan Seales: We have met so many really cool people.

[1:15] Heather Vickery: Really cool people, and people who have legit like changed the world.

[1:19] Alan Seales: I still go back to Jim Jamiro.

[1:24] Heather Vickery: I'm just like, I'm just gonna invent Disney Home video.

[1:27] Alan Seales: That's cool.

[1:28] Heather Vickery: I'm just gonna do that because I can.

[1:30] Alan Seales: And then he freaking did.

[1:31] Heather Vickery: I mean, there have been so many and from all different facets of creativity.

[1:37] Alan Seales: Like we had Jake Klaus, who's an online creator.

[1:40] Heather Vickery: We've had so many musicians.

[1:42] Alan Seales: Oh my gosh, so many wonderful versions of Shut the Fuck Up, Alan.

[1:46] Heather Vickery: I w—wonderful is a relative term, but okay.

[1:51] Alan Seales: So fun.

[1:52] Heather Vickery: In fact, I made the one from Lauren Yelinkovich your ringtone.

[1:59] Alan Seales: Now, to be fair, I usually have my ringer off, but when I randomly turn it on or I forget, and then it pops up with her aria of shut the fuck up, Alan.

[2:09] Heather Vickery: It just tickles me to no end. So thanks, Lauren.

[2:14] Alan Seales: I mean, I'm just looking back to our episode list, right? Like you said, the diversity.

[2:19] Heather Vickery: Uh, like Nicole Carousella just not performing and not—she didn't go through performing at all, but like it manifested this creativity for her own jewelry line.

[2:29] Alan Seales: And of course, like Justin Guarini.

[2:31] Heather Vickery: We've heard of Justin Guarini.

[2:33] Alan Seales: Just—that was my fangirl moment for the year, Justin.

[2:37] Heather Vickery: Well, I think I was—I think he knew that.

[2:41] Alan Seales: Shit.

[2:43] Heather Vickery: Did he?

[2:43] Alan Seales: How did he—um, now I'm embarrassed?

[2:45] Heather Vickery: No, I don't know. I tried to stay so cool.

[2:48] Alan Seales: Totally fine.

[2:48] Heather Vickery: Totally fine.

[2:49] Alan Seales: Um, oh man, I want to go back and talk with Ian Isendrath again too and be like, thanks, man, because my kids cannot stop listening to Lyelile Crocodile.

[2:58] Heather Vickery: I mean, we listened to the music in the car. It's so much fun, and it was really fun to go see the movie and be like, uh, I know all about the creation of this.

[3:10] Alan Seales: And also, um, I think it was Ian for Spirited.

[3:14] Heather Vickery: Yeah, Ian—I was gonna say, Ian also was working on Spirited, which he couldn't really talk about at the time we recorded.

[3:21] Alan Seales: Uh, so the episode came out on August 2nd, and I can't remember when we actually recorded it.

[3:25] Heather Vickery: It was previous to that. Duh.

[3:27] Alan Seales: So we told the story of getting Octavia Spencer to be comfortable singing because she doesn't consider herself a singer.

[3:32] Heather Vickery: And I watched Spirited um with my six and a half year old, which I shouldn't have because a few adult language words in it.

[3:40] Alan Seales: But um, really, really funny and just good at musically because Ryan Reynolds, like that process for how Ryan Reynolds, who's like, look, I don't know, need to know how to be a great singer. I need to know how to sing this music for this movie. Show me, I will do a great job, and then I'm out. Like there was no—I just, yeah, seeing how other people create.

[4:04] Heather Vickery: Yeah, was fun. God, I was looking back. Man, this is—I'm just remembering little tidbits from all our episodes, like Mary Rutt, Latter-day Lesbians.

[4:13] Alan Seales: Um, that was so fun. Mike Abrams, The Wrong Cat Died.

[4:16] Heather Vickery: I mean, come on. Who doesn't love a good podcast?

[4:18] Alan Seales: I totally offended him because he's talking about the track on Google.

[4:25] Heather Vickery: I don't know, I don't race car, I don't sport.

[4:28] Alan Seales: I was like, yeah, dude, I—I'm sure that's cool, but I don't care.

[4:31] Heather Vickery: Oh, the Indy 500.

[4:33] Alan Seales: Yeah, he's in Indianapolis.

[4:34] Heather Vickery: I got him from Indianapolis.

[4:35] Alan Seales: I don't care.

[4:36] Heather Vickery: Um, who was your favorite guest we had that made plushy vaginas?

[4:43] Alan Seales: Well, you know, we've only had one guest that made plushy vaginas, but I will tell you that she and I are social media friends, and she is the best fucking cheerleader.

[4:56] Heather Vickery: I swear to God.

[4:58] Alan Seales: Christina.

[4:58] Heather Vickery: Christina Raylan Connolly, yeah.

[5:02] Alan Seales: Christina, yeah.

[5:02] Heather Vickery: When I post on TikTok or Instagram, like she's like, yeah, fuck yeah, I feel that.

[5:08] Alan Seales: That's good.

[5:08] Heather Vickery: You're amazing. I was like, I'll just sort of put you and your plushy vagina in my pocket and carry around with me everywhere I go.

[5:18] Alan Seales: There's a comment there, and I can't figure it out.

[5:20] Heather Vickery: But nope. Insert dirty comments on one.

[5:24] Alan Seales: Nope.

[5:25] Heather Vickery: Oh God.

[5:26] Alan Seales: And geez, I'm just looking back. Let's see, we started your thirst trap.

[5:30] Heather Vickery: How about your thirst trap, Josh Breckenridge?

[5:32] Alan Seales: I was about to say our number one, our first episode of 2022 was Josh Breckenridge.

[5:37] Heather Vickery: And man, he—I mean, I am a completely straight man and he makes me thirsty.

[5:41] Alan Seales: Gotta say. Still.

[5:44] Heather Vickery: I love that.

[5:45] Alan Seales: Oh, Josh is a sweetheart. He's so much fun.

[5:49] Heather Vickery: Um, it doesn't seem like so. We interviewed Sochio Gonzalez.

[5:53] Alan Seales: She is the New York Times bestselling author of Olga Dies Dreaming.

[5:58] Heather Vickery: And it doesn't look like Hulu picked up their pilot, but I think it's gonna come somewhere else.

[6:05] Alan Seales: I've heard so many good things about the book.

[6:07] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[6:08] Alan Seales: So it's so good.

[6:09] Heather Vickery: I mean, this—you have a copy.

[6:10] Alan Seales: Yeah, I do.

[6:11] Heather Vickery: I do.

[6:11] Alan Seales: And I mean, just outside of my own personal thoughts, I mean, I've heard so many good things about it.

[6:16] Heather Vickery: Um, but yeah, the entire process of shopping around pilots and getting things made and stuff, I mean, literally it can take a decade just to get somebody to pick something up, and then it goes nuts.

[6:30] Alan Seales: And you know, this isn't the most popular author in the world right now, but look at JK Rowling and how many—not popular, not popular herself, but you know, the Harry Potter story was turned down by multiple publishing houses before somebody picked it up.

[6:44] Heather Vickery: Where—I don't know who picked it up, but I've heard like, yeah, a couple people didn't want it, and then now they're biting themselves in the ass because—kicking themselves in the ass because man, they just threw away a gold mine.

[6:55] Alan Seales: Wait, we've also interviewed some really cool influencers, people who just started doing stuff on Instagram or on TikTok, and next thing you know, like they're literally making a living off of this.

[7:07] Heather Vickery: Happen to both be men, which, uh, I actually think most influencers are female, but we interviewed two men.

[7:13] Alan Seales: We've got Jose Rolone, who I know from the wedding industry.

[7:15] Heather Vickery: Did you—Jose was just in a reality TV show for dating.

[7:13] Alan Seales: Like he was dating?

[7:13] Heather Vickery: Really? We gotta go watch it.

[7:13] Alan Seales: Yeah, oh no, I didn't see that. I gotta go—hopefully it wasn't Love is Blind. Please tell me it wasn't Love is Blind.

[7:13] Heather Vickery: It wasn't. It wasn't. It was something specific to New York. I'll have to go and look it up. That's bad. We'll try and put it in the show notes.

[7:13] Alan Seales: And then we did—Alan help me out—Benjamin Equity?

[7:13] Heather Vickery: Ben Equity?

[7:13] Alan Seales: Ben Potashkey?

[7:13] Heather Vickery: Smith? Or I'm sorry, Ben Potaski? Skitter? Sorry, Ben.

[7:13] Alan Seales: Equity Ben.

[7:13] Heather Vickery: We've tried it like three times, Ben, and we're just doing the best we can, but so fun, right? Just cooks dinner for his family and um, he was introduced to us by also guests Alison and Lulu from 10K Dollar Day.

[8:08] Alan Seales: Love those gals. They're hilarious.

[8:11] Heather Vickery: I'm hoping, uh, Lulu has been in 1776 and it's touring. I'm hoping she's going to be in the performance in Chicago.

[8:11] Alan Seales: Why don't you just text her? Ask her.

[8:23] Heather Vickery: I will. She said that there's a two-week out, so they may not do all of the tour dates, so when we get closer, I will definitely text her to say—

[8:22] Alan Seales: I didn't know if the Broadway cast is probably—do you know if the Broadway cast got first rate of refusal?

[8:22] Heather Vickery: Oh good, good, good. Awesome. Good for her.

[8:22] Alan Seales: So we had that conversation when we were all together at Podcast Movement, you and I.

[8:45] Heather Vickery: We got to hang out.

[8:46] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[8:47] Heather Vickery: Do some live interviews.

[8:48] Alan Seales: I remember that.

[8:49] Heather Vickery: Talk to our friends.

[8:50] Alan Seales: Lindsay McMahon.

[8:51] Heather Vickery: Lindsay McMahon and Jay Klaus.

[8:52] Alan Seales: Jake Klaus.

[8:53] Heather Vickery: And Jake Klaus.

[8:57] Alan Seales: Lindsay.

[8:58] Heather Vickery: She's our buddy. We get to hang out with her when we're in the same room.

[9:01] Alan Seales: That's so fun.

[9:02] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[9:03] Alan Seales: So many cool people.

[9:04] Heather Vickery: Well, so looking back at all of our episodes, and let's see, this is gonna be episode thirty. So we've had twenty-nine real episodes.

[9:13] Alan Seales: Well, I guess you count the first one that was just two of us.

[9:16] Heather Vickery: So 28 real episodes with other guests.

[9:18] Alan Seales: We are real.

[9:19] Heather Vickery: We're real.

[9:20] Alan Seales: Is there anything that sticks out for you?

[9:22] Heather Vickery: What sticks out as kind of like the best advice or best opportunity someone latched on to to make their success?

[9:31] Alan Seales: I think we've seen it with everybody. And there are a couple of people we still haven't mentioned. Mauricio Martinez, who we got to interview in person and I love, and Steve Silverman.

[9:43] Heather Vickery: That interview was hilarious because the two of you were like on your own SNL skit the entire time.

[9:49] Alan Seales: But what I've seen from everyone, so it—I think the most powerful thing is be open to turning left when you thought you were gonna turn right.

[9:59] Heather Vickery: I mean, right, be open to changing your mind and going down a different direction instead of totally focused on it's gotta be this way, it has to be just like this, because the greatest things happen when you leave an element for surprise.

[10:13] Alan Seales: And that's the show, right? Was it chance? Like, what opportunity did you embrace that led you down this path that you are manifesting?

[10:22] Heather Vickery: And everyone's like, just be open-minded, be willing to be flexible.

[10:25] Alan Seales: Mm-hmm.

[10:26] Heather Vickery: That plays into my overall takeaway so far as well, is that a failure in the moment typically isn't a failure long term.

[10:37] Alan Seales: Because if you're expecting to go left and you fail at going left, you're gonna end up going another direction, probably right, and then that will become right.

[10:48] Alan Seales: See what I did there.

[10:50] Heather Vickery: Did you practice that?

[10:52] Alan Seales: No, that was top of my head.

[10:58] Heather Vickery: I should take this act solo, you can't hear me.

[11:01] Alan Seales: My grandpa used to say that.

[11:02] Heather Vickery: You can't like you should sing solo.

[11:04] Alan Seales: Solo I can't hear you.

[11:06] Heather Vickery: That's kind of a funny grandpa line.

[11:08] Alan Seales: Oh, totally.

[11:09] Heather Vickery: That is totally a grandpa.

[11:10] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[11:10] Heather Vickery: I'm here for that.

[11:12] Alan Seales: He also said every time we'd see him, he's like, Whoa, you got taller.

[11:20] Heather Vickery: You're sure gruesome.

[11:23] Alan Seales: Gruesome.

[11:24] Heather Vickery: You can get it.

[11:26] Alan Seales: No.

[11:26] Heather Vickery: Uh-uh.

[11:28] Alan Seales: I get it. I just don't like it.

[11:34] Heather Vickery: We both have solo podcasts, and a lot of the people we interview could be on either of our shows.

[11:43] Alan Seales: Some of them have been on both of our shows separately.

[11:47] Heather Vickery: And you made a really interesting remark to me after we were together in New York and we did our interview with Mauricio Martinez, which is that the interviews that you've done, and there have been several. You thought there were only two, but if we go through, I think there are five or six people that you've interviewed on The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales, and also we've interviewed just how different the conversations are, how different the interviews are, how you glean something totally new. I'd love to just hear your thoughts on that because I think it's fascinating for folks to understand how the dynamic completely shifts the interview and the episode.

[12:26] Alan Seales: Oh, totally. I mean, both the I think you and I are sort of in the same interview camp school of interview where we're not in it to say here's our question here here's an answer. Here's a question here's an answer. We both go in with a very rough outline and some talking points and legitimately have a conversation and because we are two different people with two completely different backgrounds and completely different interests with a large subset that overlaps otherwise we wouldn't be besties but we have completely different things we want to know about that person and based on what they're saying we just end up having completely independent conversations. It's just, you know, you can sit with at a party with one person and then sit with another person and have a completely different conversation even if two people interview the same person.

[13:21] Heather Vickery: Yeah, it's really fun. It's really fun and I think the most pleasurable feedback I've gotten from all of our guests is wow gosh that was really fun I just felt like I was hanging out with a couple of friends and I haven't thought about things this way before which is really cool.

[13:40] Alan Seales: Well then we have done our jobs. We've done our jobs it looks like eight people we've interviewed have also been on The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[13:51] Heather Vickery: Yeah well it's yeah it was different shticks right so yeah totally different if you're building a pool I'm just I'm spitballing here. You're gonna have an engineer who's gonna ask you, so what tools are you're using? Have you calculated your square footage? Tell me about the materials you're using. And then you're gonna have a landscaper who's also talking to the same pool builder saying, What's your stone gonna be? How's what what's the aesthetic gonna be? How's it, what's your qi? What's your flow? So you can have one person doing one job and get completely different conversations depending on who's doing the interview.

[14:28] Alan Seales: Of course.

[14:29] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[14:29] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[14:30] Heather Vickery: And different audiences too.

[14:31] Alan Seales: Yep.

[14:31] Heather Vickery: Or there's some crossover. It's just been fun. It's my favorite thing that I do.

[14:38] Alan Seales: And I'm so grateful for you and that we get to do this together and get to have so much fun whenever we're hanging out.

[14:43] Heather Vickery: I am grateful for you too. I enjoy all of this. This is just fun to be able to record and leave a legacy. Someone said that to me once early in my podcasting career was one of the cool things is that we're leaving legacies a legacy for our children for for kind of a lack of other things to do, right? We are in a mode here, at least I am a little bit because my kids are still young, where my kids don't get to experience me this way yet.

[15:14] Alan Seales: Yep.

[15:15] Heather Vickery: And or they don't they don't perceive I mean, I'm still me and Goosey.

[15:19] Alan Seales: You're just dad.

[15:20] Heather Vickery: But I'm just dad, right? So to have this side of us and be able to observe conversations that your parents are having with their friends or with their professional acquaintances or whatever, it's a completely different side of totally humanizing your parents. I just know it's just it's just fun. I think it's a cool gift. My so I do a weekly live show called Brave in Action, and one of my four children loves it, my Tessa. She's 13. And if she's home from school, she always watches.

[15:45] Alan Seales: Right.

[15:50] Heather Vickery: And if she's like, I love watching that live show. And I don't know what she loves about it. I always bring attention. I'm like, oh hey, my daughter's in the audience, and I think she gets a kick out of that, but she did that, she gets to see me doing something that's totally different than mommy.

[16:04] Alan Seales: For sure.

[16:05] Heather Vickery: And I hadn't thought of like one day we won't be here. But this will. And our children, our grandchildren, even our great grandchildren will be able to know us a little because of that. And this is the first generation that that's ever possible.

[16:21] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[16:22] Heather Vickery: Oh man. Imagine like grandmammy Vickery is gonna be Mammy?

[16:29] Alan Seales: Really?

[16:30] Heather Vickery: Yeah, imagine like you've been able to, you know, pull up your your stereograph. What did Edison invent, you know?

[16:41] Alan Seales: My stereograph.

[16:42] Heather Vickery: Yeah, because we're gonna go backwards in the next 50 years. That's what's gonna happen.

[16:48] Alan Seales: I don't know.

[16:49] Heather Vickery: Something.

[16:49] Alan Seales: Well, like I mean, politically, we're already going backwards, but I don't think technologically we're going to.

[16:56] Heather Vickery: I don't know.

[16:56] Alan Seales: I don't know.

[16:57] Heather Vickery: Oh, I watched a really cool video this morning about like some physicist trying to prove that we're living inside a simulation. Blew my mind anyway. There's a point where we're gonna run out of available mass to produce data, and it's pretty cool to think about.

[17:10] Alan Seales: Oh, that's scary shit.

[17:12] Heather Vickery: Right?

[17:13] Alan Seales: Wow. All right, I have a question for you as we move into the next year of hanging out together and having cool interviews. Who would you really love to interview? And let's see if we can manifest something very cool.

[17:30] Heather Vickery: Oh god, this is a near impossible question because there are so many people I want to talk to for so many different reasons. I would love to get like a major like A-list celebrity author.

[17:37] Alan Seales: Yes.

[17:49] Heather Vickery: I have a couple that come immediately to mind. It'll be a lot of fun. I wanna dive into that realm a little bit, and I would love to see us expand into the creativity, the creative fields, people in the creative fields outside of performing arts. Because that's where our bread and butter is, that's where our connections are, which is where a lot of our guests have come from. But I think some of the most interesting conversations we've had have been with people outside of those of that genre because we know so little about them that we can truly ask inquisitive questions that uncover things, at least for me, that are really like eye-opening.

[18:27] Alan Seales: That'll be fun.

[18:27] Heather Vickery: So many opportunities, and I'm hoping we can hear more from our audience. It you guys are all over the place. I see there's this chart. What is it called? Now in my brain.

[18:39] Alan Seales: Demographic chart?

[18:41] Heather Vickery: Yeah, well, yeah, it's a demographic chart. I don't know what it's called. I just got it and I just deleted it and to just delete, don't air this. Anyway, we can see where you guys are listening from. And it's all over the world. I mean, I think last week, I don't even know if you know this, Alan. We were charting in the top hundred in Iceland.

[19:02] Alan Seales: Really?

[19:04] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[19:05] Alan Seales: Wow.

[19:05] Heather Vickery: In what category?

[19:07] Alan Seales: Mental health.

[19:10] Heather Vickery: All right, I'll take it.

[19:12] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[19:13] Heather Vickery: Very cool. You know, we show up, it shows up all over the world. And it's a lot of fun to see where you guys are, and we want to hear, we really do. We say this at the end of every episode, but we mean it. We want to hear how you're out embracing opportunity, taking intentional risk, and just showing up in your life. And also, we'd love to hear what your highlight moments were. What episodes have you listened to that just made you laugh or smile or lit you up or inspired you? Who did you like enough that now you're following them on social media, which I think is so fun. So be sure and share all that with us.

[19:53] Alan Seales: Do you want to tell folks how they can share that with us?

[19:56] Heather Vickery: Yeah, on Instagram at was it chance or via email, was it chance podcast at gmail.com. And then yeah, let us know. Leave a rating, leave a review. Give us those five stars.

[20:10] Alan Seales: Five stars and talk about why you like it. It does help people search us out and find us, and also it just makes us feel good. We love to be pet and told we're pretty.

[20:28] Heather Vickery: No, absolutely. It's been a lot of fun. We look forward to bringing you a lot of fantastic content in the coming year and more opportunities for us to do it in live and in person because that is always a treat when we take the show on the road.

[20:41] Alan Seales: So happy new year, everybody.

[20:45] Heather Vickery: Happy New Year.

[20:46] Alan Seales: Thanks for listening.

[20:48] Heather Vickery: So we're just gonna say hello to all our friends in Iceland real quick in your native tongue, Icelandic.

[20:53] Alan Seales: Hello.

[20:58] Heather Vickery: Oh my gosh, we love you all so much. You've been listening to Was It Chance, the podcast about and taking the podcast about taking intentional risk for your creative success. I'm Heather Vickery.

[21:11] Alan Seales: And I'm Alan Seales, in taking your comment. We'll see you next year.

[21:19] Heather Vickery: Bye.