This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Andy Mientus: Many times a week do I fail. It never gets easier. You never fail less. You think like the more times you fail, you're going to, I don't know, like learn something about how to make that not happen so much. But then when you do what I do, the thing itself is always changing. You know, it's if I was auditioning for the same show again and again and again, maybe I would like finally crack it on the 200th time. But like it's a different show every time.

[0:35] Heather Vickery: Everyone, welcome to Was It Chance. This is the podcast about embracing opportunity and taking intentional risk for your creative life. My name is Heather Vickery.

[0:44] Alan Seales: Yes, it is that podcast, and I'm Alan Seales. Heather and I started off as two perfect strangers who met by chance and then embraced opportunity. Listen in as we chat with other successful people about the risks they've taken to put themselves on a path to creative success. Heather, it's been a while since we've recorded a little bit. How you doing?

[1:02] Heather Vickery: I'm doing good, but I miss you. It's more fun when I get to see you like every week or every other week. That's more fun for me.

[1:09] Alan Seales: I know. We should record more episodes and we should do that. And you know what I'm excited about? So we have been deep in the author realm the last few months, which I am into because you know I love to read. But I have missed our Broadway peeps, and we have one with us today. Will you tell everyone who's here with us?

[1:25] Heather Vickery: Oh, snap. Yes, it is Andy Mientus.

[1:31] Alan Seales: Uh, hey, uh, well, okay. Actually easy for you to say.

[1:36] Heather Vickery: No, well, that's how you say his name.

[1:37] Alan Seales: No, I'm not talking about that. I meant this. And uh I said I asked AI to write a little intro. So this is what it is. Hey, musical theater fans and superhero enthusiasts, buckle up. Today on the podcast, we've got a guest who's a true force on both the stage and the screen, the incredibly talented Andy Mientus. Andy is an actor who has wowed audiences in Broadway shows like Spring Awakening, Les Mis, and Wicked, but being more than just a theater guy, he's captivated the screen as well. He's brought his charisma to life in shows like Smash and Gone. But it's his role on The Flash that many fans know him for, as the tech-savvy villain Hartley Rathaway, also known as the Pied Piper. He stole the show.

He brought a layer of complexity and humor to the role that made Pied Piper a fan favorite, despite being a supervillain. He's now about to star in Tick Tick Boom at the historic Cape Playhouse in Dennis, Massachusetts. Woo! Andy, we are thrilled to have you on the show today. Welcome.

[2:38] Andy Mientus: Can you literally send that exact text directly to my manager? Because that I think is better than any bio I've ever had. Um, I am flattered. I feel prestigious, and damn, AI is coming for us, but if it's nice like that, I don't mind so much.

[2:57] Andy Mientus: Uh, the key, the key to it is you have to frame your question, telling it what voice it needs to speak in. So I literally said, you are a podcast host on a fun podcast. Write an introduction for Broadway actor Andy Mientus. And then could you like do it again with like an NPR sort of very self-serious?

[3:05] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[3:21] Andy Mientus: Yeah, you can say like in the voice of boring Shweddy Balls, like write an intro for Andy. And it would be like, oh, people who really like NPR. This is, yeah, you know, something like that.

[3:36] Alan Seales: Wow, we live in the future.

[3:37] Andy Mientus: I embrace it. I embrace our robot overlords. I think they'll do a better job than we. I mean, what choices do we have? Really?

[3:44] Alan Seales: Right? It's coming. It's coming, and we can't do anything about it. But theater, I've been talking a lot with people about like, I was like, oh, what if we're the last one left, right? Like, what if like theater's the last thing that you can like do in person, see in person, the last way you can make a living as an artist because you can't. Do you know what I mean? It's gonna take a while for the robots to look human. Like, it's we're very quickly gonna sound human. It's gonna take a while, I think. Unless I'm really stupid, like, I think maybe we're okay for a minute on stage.

[4:19] Andy Mientus: So that's live theater because my eggs in the basket. Television and movies, it's game over.

[4:25] Alan Seales: It's all over, yeah.

[4:26] Andy Mientus: No, listen, it's all over. As somebody who has co-founded a Broadway podcast network and has a strong technical background and is trying to introduce technical change into the industry, I have to say you are 100% correct. It's gonna be the last industry to change because nobody wants to embrace it and nobody understands the tech. The people running the industry are just clueless. No offense to anyone running the industry, but please reach out to me. I can help.

[4:54] Andy Mientus: Great. When the robot overlords come for all of us, I will, you'll be my first call. How do I survive? What do I do now?

[5:01] Alan Seales: Listen. Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me.

[5:04] Andy Mientus: We're so excited you're here.

[5:05] Heather Vickery: And me too. We're gonna talk about so many things, but I just have to say, I'm so excited for Tick Tick Boom.

[5:12] Andy Mientus: Thank you. Me too. I love it so much. It's so good. It's such a good show.

[5:16] Heather Vickery: I know I'm like, it's like I'm really stating the obvious, but like I, you know, we all like have had that recording forever, and the recording is incredible, so we all know the songs are incredible, and then the movie's so good, but like I was really stunned by like returning to the original script, and it's like just a really good play. Like the scenes are good and the model, like it's really good. I really love doing it.

[5:40] Andy Mientus: Do you know the history behind it that Jonathan Larson originally was writing it as a one-man show for himself?

[5:47] Heather Vickery: Yes, and would perform it. Um, have performed it several times under various titles, Tick Tick Boom, Boho Days. Um, and what was cool about my experience, so for all the listeners at home, um, this is a remount of a production that we began last summer at a different theater at Bucks County Playhouse, um, run by Robin Goodman, um, a theater luminary and beloved lady in the theater, who produced the original production at the Jane Street Theater, like the, you know, the famous Raul Esparza production, and actually produced a reading for Jonathan of Boho Days when she was working with Second Stage.

[6:25] Andy Mientus: Um, so she has like a long history with Jonathan and with the production. She brought him famously to see La Boheme at the Met while he was working on Rent. Apparently, he like whispered in her ear the whole time about like the changes he was gonna make to, you know, like, like that's she's a drug addict, and he's, you know, um, and um, and so she like really loved it and um it was like she told us lots and lots of stories about about the genesis of the show and about Jonathan and about um where he was at when he was writing it, and um, so that really like informed our production, which we're now so excited to do again um at the Cape Playhouse this summer.

[7:02] Heather Vickery: Well, listen, listen, quick quick, quick plug. Um, uh I'll send this to you. I'll send this to you offline if you want. But by the time this episode comes out for the listeners, um, uh on BPN the network, we are um releasing another series of episodes in the next few days uh on a podcast called Singular Sensation, which is Michael, it's a, you know who Michael Riedel is, the old uh columnist, right?

[7:26] Andy Mientus: Yeah.

[7:27] Heather Vickery: So the he wrote the book Singular Sensation. Um, that's all like behind the story behind the scenes stories of all like the musicals that shape the 90s, Rent included. And then of course it covers Jonathan Larson. And um the audio recordings of that he used to make the book, we've turned into uh a podcast series.

[7:46] Andy Mientus: Oh, yeah.

[7:47] Heather Vickery: So the first season last month was all uh Sunset Boulevard with like Patti LuPone and um yeah Andrew Lloyd Webber and stuff. Piping hot and then next uh what's today as we're recording this Tuesday. So we'll in the next few days we're gonna start dropping Rent episodes, which are interviews with Jonathan Larson's sister and um sister and dad, I believe, and a couple others related that lived with him, worked with him.

[8:13] Andy Mientus: So it's like hearing these stories of like, yeah, yeah, he wanted this such and such, and then Daphne Rubin-Vega came in and she was like a true bohemian, and then he changed everything. And you know, they talk about everything. So like it could inform what you're doing.

[8:28] Heather Vickery: Yeah. Oh my, I'm also I'm doing, you know, they I I'm I'm gonna do this job um this summer, so I want to do a good job, but I'm also just a fan. I'm a huge fan, Larson fan, and so that sounds like total catnip for me. So that's really exciting.

[8:45] Alan Seales: Well, Andy. Talk about you.

[8:48] Andy Mientus: Back to you.

[8:50] Alan Seales: So sure. I mean, you have an impressive resume as AI informed us. And but you know, this show is all about taking intentional risk for creative success. And in so many cases, we know we're taking a risk, and we have no idea whether or not it's gonna pay off. Can you remember maybe all the way back, like that first really risky thing you did that led you to where you are today?

[9:13] Andy Mientus: Yeah, I feel like most of my career has been like weird intentional risks. I feel like I really stumbled in the back door of almost every huge opportunity that I've had. The first being while I was in school at the University of Michigan for musical theater. I gosh, I think it was the summer between my freshman and sophomore year. Um, I went to New York and crashed on Ben Passic's couch and saw some shows, you know, did some rush tickets for shows, so I was broke. And everyone was urging me to see this show called Spring Awakening, and um that was playing at the Atlantic Theater. Yes, that was playing at the Atlantic Theater. It is nuts. Um, I got a ticket. I got like probably the last ticket available. Um, and I went and saw it, and I was like, oh, holy shit. Like this is it. This is all of my interests combined. This is a show that I just have to like be close to and be a part of, and I just like love it so much for so many reasons.

[10:17] Andy Mientus: And a bunch of us ended up seeing it that summer, and so I um I started this Facebook group back when you could do that. Um for like half as a joke and half as for like the kids at Michigan that saw the show that liked the show to kind of like tell other kids at this at school about the show, you know, and to feel cool that like we had seen it because it was like this, you know, little buzzy thing.

[10:39] Alan Seales: So you were like the original Spring Awakening Stan.

[10:41] Andy Mientus: I was thinking about it. Yeah, like the sure and earth. Literally, guys, I think I might have been one of the first social media managers. I'm getting ahead of myself, but literally, I think I may have been one of the very first social media managers for a Broadway show because then I made this group again as sort of like a half joke, and I had like a little bit of acumen with like editing photos. So I was able to like put text on a photo and make it the right size and make it like look kind of cool. And people started, people that I didn't know started joining the group.

[11:08] Andy Mientus: And I was like, oh, like, and so it was like 10, 50, 100, 200, like it really started to go. And then I get this DM from a producer, like a co-producer, who actually just saw at Illinois like two weeks ago. Crazy. Um, asking me, he was like, hey, we were looking to like set up a Facebook group because this show is you know young for young people, and we're looking to use social media to like engage young people. And um, we saw that you already have one. And what do you say we just like make this the official page of the show and you can run it?

[11:44] Andy Mientus: And I was like, yeah, totally. That's amazing. Sure, I'll work for free. Sure, I'll work for free, literally for free. No shade to them. I didn't expect, you know, I expected nothing. I didn't know like this was way before social media was something that people like paid for, certainly. And so I had this, you know, kind of insider relationship with the production where they would like I like broke news for them, like they would send me news items and tell me when to post it and like casting and stuff, and uh I would moderate the page.

[12:14] Andy Mientus: And it was my little like in between my classes at school, my little, you know, gig. And then um, when open calls were coming up for the future of the show for both like Broadway replacements and the national tour, they knew that I was an actor, that I was in school for you know for acting, and they were like, Hey, you yeah, you should you should come. You should come around. And so I um I went to the open call in Chicago. I drove with some friends to Chicago. I stood in line next to an actor named Corey Mohawk, who's in Mary Libera Roland, still one of my friends to this day in the industry. We stood next to each other in line. I got there at like five in the morning, and I had put on my resume on my special skills that I ran this page, and I'll never forget that Carrie Gardner, who is still a very prominent casting director in New York, um, was running this call, and she's like reading my resume, and she said, Okay, what is this?

[13:04] Andy Mientus: Like in that exact tone. She's like, What the fuck are you talking about? I was like, oh, well, actually, I and so I ended up getting a call back um the next day for Moritz, actually. And I went to that, and then I went home and I didn't hear anything for like six months. I was like, Well, what an adventure. And then suddenly they needed a like last-minute Broadway replacement, a temporary replacement for Hanshin. I'm really going on and on and on. I'll wrap us up. But basically, that led me to auditioning several times for the show, and then I got cast on the national tour, which was my first big job and my kind of big break. Um, all because I worked for free on a social media thing that I made. Um, yeah.

[13:40] Alan Seales: Wow.

[13:41] Andy Mientus: Yeah.

[13:42] Alan Seales: Wow.

[13:43] Andy Mientus: So yeah, you just randomly said yes to this weird outreach.

[13:48] Alan Seales: How much time did it take to manage the page?

[13:50] Andy Mientus: I oh, a lot. It was a lot of work.

[13:52] Alan Seales: Yeah, a lot of time.

[13:53] Andy Mientus: Yeah. Cause again, I'm like, I'm like a lot was happening with the show. This I I started this between their off-Broadway and Broadway runs. So like you figure everything that happened from I finally passed it off to somebody when I joined the show. I was like, well, this isn't appropriate and impossible that I be still running this thing. So now I have to, you know, hand it over to like, I don't even remember who I did that to or whatever became of it. But like for you know, a couple of years through like their transfer, the Tony's the cast album, like, you know, the reviews, like all of these major events for the show.

[14:28] Alan Seales: And then the huge like media, like that iconic gap ad they did, and like, you know, just like all these things.

[14:34] Andy Mientus: I was the one being like, ugh, go see this uh at the Apple store, you know.

[14:37] Alan Seales: That's so cool.

[14:39] Andy Mientus: But what I love about that is just this reminder that doing something you have passion for can lead to so many incredible opportunities because that might not have shaken out that way for you if you hadn't been in love with the show and started this Facebook group. And being like close to your goals, even if they're completely tangential, right? Like, I remember having like an acting teacher growing up being like, if you like love a theater, just like be at that theater, like scrub toilets if you have to, like, you know, which I don't know that I would actually recommend that advice. This she's like came up in the 70s. I think it was a different um different time, but the sentiment is there, right?

To just like be as close as you can to like the arena in which you want to participate, and then you meet somebody, you get you strike up a conversation at a party, like because this sort of set the tone for like the rest of my my career, where like you know, there's this old adage that like it's who you know that gets you in rooms, which is really true, and not in like I always thought that meant like, oh, you gotta like network and be really like deliberate about that, but it's actually more organic than that.

[15:41] Andy Mientus: It's like the people you meet socially who just like think you're cool and smart and like fun to be around, we'll call you to like be a part of their thing. And then the like the risk is you know, yeah, putting yourself out there, I guess, and then saying yes when these things come along, even if you're like, I'm not totally sure how this is gonna, you know, turn into my actual goals, but like, um, but it's a step and to take that step. Speaking of people liking you, I let Steven Seder know that we were talking today and to see if he wanted to come in and stream crash. And he is unfortunately unavailable, but he did want me to tell you he's known you since college and he loves you and you need to catch up soon.

[16:23] Andy Mientus: Steven.

[16:24] Alan Seales: What a sweetheart.

[16:25] Andy Mientus: He's really a dear sweet. Little does he know we were talking about his wonderful, quotable Alice by Heart um script right before we started recording.

[16:36] Alan Seales: Now we know where he's in the air.

[16:37] Andy Mientus: He's a real, he's a sorcerer.

[16:39] Alan Seales: He's like, he's there's some something going on.

[16:42] Andy Mientus: He's all over the place.

[16:43] Alan Seales: What do you all of a sudden he's just like, yeah, here's an album I did with Bert Bacarak.

[16:46] Andy Mientus: Like, what the fuck?

[16:47] Alan Seales: Well, that's when we had him on, was when that album came out.

[16:50] Andy Mientus: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[16:52] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[16:52] Andy Mientus: So, Andy, what did you love most about being part of the production of Spring Awakening?

[16:59] Andy Mientus: Um, wow. Um, what did I love most about it? I loved being a part of like a sea change in what musicals could sound like and would sound like, and who they would include for the next little while, right? Like um, and what they could be about and the tone of them. Like, I remember Michael Mayer saying that when they created the show like in development and then mounted it in the Atlantic, there was no like atom of them that thought it was gonna be this like big commercial phenomenon. They thought they were making, because they were making this deeply avant-garde, deeply niche, very serious, you know, piece of chamber theater based on this obscure, you know, dark sexual play about like German children learning to masturbate. Like it's totally insane. Like that that show hit the zeitgeist.

[17:55] Alan Seales: We're gonna take a quick break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[17:59] Andy Mientus: And now we're back. You know, I I was a weird kid.

[18:03] Andy Mientus: Like I went to this weird acting program in Pittsburgh. So like I grew up in Pittsburgh, and luckily there are lots of arts opportunities in Pittsburgh because of like old steel endowment. And so I was exposed to lots of different shit for free. Like they would put up a sign-up sheet to like go on a field trip to see like anything. And there were like plays at the Pittsburgh Public Theater, and there was opera and there was ballet. And I would always sign up mostly to like get out of class because I was a bad student. But then I started to really enjoy seeing like whatever was available, which really like broadened my palate. And then I went to this extracurricular acting program that again, I mentioned this already, but it was sort of run by these like ex-New Yorker actors from that were like in New York trying to make it in the 70s, and now they like moved to Pittsburgh and became these like hippie theater teachers.

[18:48] Andy Mientus: And so like the first monologue I ever did when I was like 10 years old was from House of Blue Leaves by John Goire. Like, like I was interested in very weird grown-up stuff. And that's why like Rent really spoke to me to like bring it back to Jonathan Larson, because I didn't really connect with like, you know, the like Rogers and Hammerstein catalog. Like now I love it as a grown-up, but like I was interested in like the darker, weirder stuff. And so even when I was in school, you know, I'm like a little guy. Like my professors kept wanting me to play like RPAD and She Loves Me and like these quirky, which like is fun, but like I wanted to kind of like, yeah, be that weird German kid learning the master thing and um did you want to learn to be German or learn to master that you know?

[19:35] Andy Mientus: I'll leave that to the to the listener to the side point. But I I and then like I grew up in like a household that loved music but didn't necessarily love musical theater. Like I kind of found that on my own. And so, you know, I in school I was learning to use what I would call my like expensive voice, like oh, you know, like like vibrato, but when I like sang in the shower, I wanted to sound like Bruce Springsteen or Johnny Mitchell or you know, these like artists that I would listen to growing up. And so I was musical theater when I was studying it in school for the first little while, felt like a real like put on, like a I was learning skills to like learn how to participate in this art form that I appreciated, but didn't feel organically like capable of.

And then Spring Awakening was like, oh, I can sound like me, I can look like me, I can like talk about and and enact like weird, cool stuff and these stories that are really like the structure of it is really bizarre and it's really out there and yeah, just interesting, the kind of show that I would want to see, and I could like be in it.

[20:38] Andy Mientus: And so I loved like getting to do that. And I again I did it on the national tour. So we're doing it in like, you know, the Fox Theater, like it's 5,000 seats. Like we're and and at that point, the show was really kind of at like the height of its powers, right? Like it had won all the Tonies and Ben it had become this cultural thing. And so these cities were so excited to like have it and to see it and see what all the fuss was about. And so to see like a show like that play at that scale and be embraced in that way, and to get to be a part of it and then have that inform like my career, the kinds of musicals and and you know shows that were gonna get made for the next like 10 years because everyone was inspired by that show and that show proved that that kind of show can do well um it just felt really exciting.

[21:27] Alan Seales: And it's interesting because you said you know you had a musical family but not musical theater and I would say I mean I'm a quite clearly I think probably a musical theater nerd and I've raised my kids on it but they are not musical theater nerds except every once in a while it it peaks out a little so you give me hope that they'll turn into more musical theater nerds.

[21:50] Andy Mientus: You have time you can radicalize them slowly.

[21:52] Alan Seales: I I was gonna touch on the the difference between like what you say your expansive voice and the fun voice the voice you actually like because um hot take I don't particularly groove to Sondheim.

[22:10] Andy Mientus: Whoa really thank you so much goodbye Alan you just added yourself to the whole Broadway podcast community no no no no tell me why hear me out hear me out why yeah like I realize he's I I understand it's amazing I realize he's got a talent but like from my voice it it doesn't it doesn't speak to me I don't want to sing his stuff.

[22:33] Alan Seales: I like to watch it I I the current production of Marile we roll along is wonderful it didn't blow me away like everybody else because it's still just like the way he writes is sort of herky jerky and the rhythms and it's not like I can't uh melodic right singable always, like singable always, yes.

[22:52] Andy Mientus: And so to along these points, what got me into theater, what allowed me to say I want to go down this creative path was rent, was Jonathan Larson.

[23:02] Alan Seales: Was him changing the game.

[23:04] Andy Mientus: It's more approachable.

[23:05] Alan Seales: It's more approachable.

[23:06] Andy Mientus: And it just spoke to me.

[23:07] Alan Seales: The way that Hamilton did, you know, in 2015, the way that other shows are like even what Stereophonic is doing to plays right now.

[23:15] Andy Mientus: Um when something comes out that is just so uniquely different, it stands out.

[23:20] Alan Seales: And Sonnheim did that.

[23:22] Andy Mientus: And I think if I was another generation older, Sonnheim would sit in that place for me.

[23:28] Alan Seales: But for me, in my generation, I Jonathan Larson is what got me, you know, like the the end of the British invasion of Broadway is what got me onto into Broadway.

[23:37] Andy Mientus: Yeah, well, it's interesting because Sonnheim was such an influence for Jonathan Larson. Um, and in fact, like appears, spoiler alert a little bit as a character in TikTok um he's evoked and is in the air.

[23:50] Alan Seales: Um, but I when I think about like, yeah, I think what you're touching on is like the accessibility of like of melody and song and like the songs sounding like songs on the radio, where like when it was RH and Cole Porter and like in the golden age, like musical theater songs were on the radio. Musical theater music was pop music, right? Like those that was like the American songbook. It was no different.

[24:13] Andy Mientus: And then Sonnheim sort of changed the game to make it this more like cerebral, more composed, more like based in classical music and more like yeah, um not ex not melodically accessible, like like RH and Cole Porter and Irving Berlin and and the dudes would like kind of seduce you into hearing the story by like on the wave of this melody.

[24:35] Alan Seales: And then Sonnheim was like, no, don't do that.

[24:37] Andy Mientus: Let me like alienate you from that to like wake you up.

[24:39] Alan Seales: And then I feel like Larson and some others kind of brought it back, right?

[24:42] Andy Mientus: Like, kind of was like, We can we we can do melody again.

[24:46] Alan Seales: We can do accessible, and we can and we can make it sound like pop music.

[24:46] Andy Mientus: We can make it sound like music that you will hear on the radio.

[24:52] Alan Seales: So it's like both old and new.

[24:54] Andy Mientus: Speaking of pop music, let's talk about Dolly Parton for a hot sec.

[24:57] Alan Seales: Yeah, let's talk about Dolly Martin.

[24:59] Andy Mientus: Dolly Parton.

[25:00] Andy Mientus: So uh part of your credits too. You were on an episode of Dolly Parton's Heartstrings. Did you work with it? Did you get to work with Dolly?

[25:06] Andy Mientus: I sure did. We had a scene together. Um we acted together.

[25:11] Andy Mientus: And she was also very like present in the whole thing. She was at the table read. She had um like jokes prepared based on everyone's credits.

[25:20] Andy Mientus: Like she had like done her research about us and like who was in her thing and like what we had done.

[25:25] Andy Mientus: And so she had like like jokes for like Andy, I know you're gonna be a smash, and like things like that.

[25:34] Andy Mientus: No, yeah, I'll go and be a smash. Like literally, and then the day that she joined us on set for the first day, it was just like amazing. She's uh you smell her before you see her in a good way. She like smells like beautiful, you know, in a good way. Yeah, no, like in a good way, like you smell she. I don't know what her like signature scent is, but it like wafts through, and you're like, oh yeah, and here comes Dolly, and then you see the hair, like the wig next, and then you see her, and she has gotten very good over the years, I think, at like knowing what people um what it means to people to meet her and how to handle that situation. So she really cares for you in that moment because everyone's kind of like, oh yeah, uh you're Dolly Parton.

And she's like, let's, yes, I am, you know. And um, she knew that I had sang um Hard Candy Christmas at an event for the Trevor Project. What? And so she's like, Andy, I know I saw the video of you singing hard candy Christmas, and I hope you'll sing it with me right now. And I'm like, okay. And we like, she we like stood there and she held my hands and we sang hard candy Christmas together. And um I'll never forget it.

[26:39] Alan Seales: Well, so what chance took you to working with Dolly? What how did was it just a good old audition or did something?

[26:45] Andy Mientus: It was a good old audition. It was a good old audition, but um I don't know. I yeah, maybe it wasn't a risk. Although I will say that like I remember the breakdown for that. So it was a gay thing, which this was a risk for her, I think. Like it was uh the show was an anthology series in which every episode was basically like a short uh movie um based on one of her songs. And so like there was a Jolene episode where like they kind of like blew out the like because Dolly songs are so narrative, they like blew that out into a full like the story of Jolene and the wife and the husband, and you know, um, and ours was two doors down, which is about like two doors down, they're having a a party, and I'm like sitting alone feeling far sorry for myself.

And it like took that idea and blew it out into this Christmas story about a like mother who is presiding over this family, her like the her daughter is getting married, and so the family's coming back together, and it comes out during the party that her son, who's closeted because he's um southern and you know uh uh closeted, um gets like outed. Um, and and she the mother like basically like everything that can go wrong with this wedding goes wrong, including this like revelation about her son, and she's like having a terrible time, and then through the magic of like family and Dolly Parton, they all come back together in the end just in time for New Year. Um and uh I think that was a big risk for Dolly to like include a you know a queer storyline in her series, and I think that's what people love about Dolly is that she really is for everybody.

She's like the most uncontroversial person, and she's able to be like kind of radically inclusive in her like programming and things she makes. You know, she appears on Beyonce's new album, sort of like welcoming Beyonce into country in a way that is really helpful, where like this fan base for you know terrible reasons might not be receptive to that.

[28:35] Andy Mientus: And for me, I remember when the like audition came in, it was like, and I hate when it says this on auditions, but it happens so often, they're like hot, like the character is like handsome, like killer. You have to go, oh that's me. I'm perfectly smile, like like you know what I mean. Like, and I'm like, oh, like I, you know, I that's uh flattering that anyone would think that I might be that that, but like I have a crooked smile that I'm quite self-conscious about, actually. And I just like would never be like, I'm the most handsome guy in the room. But I said, you know what? It's Dolly Parton. I'm gonna be brave and look as handsome as I can on this day and go in and just try. And um, and it worked out.

[29:15] Alan Seales: So we all think you're very handsome here at Wednesday.

[29:18] Andy Mientus: And that was why I brought that up, because I wanted to fish for compliments. So um I can see uh when you listen to this. And no, it's just yes, everybody tell isn't it? Listen, I don't like I I I got married to a handsome man. I I like I'm doing fine, but I also recognize and I hope everyone else can that there's a difference between like regular, you know, good looking dude and like like TV perfect, symmetrical, like that's a different thing.

[29:48] Alan Seales: Absolutely. Especially in the gay world.

[29:49] Andy Mientus: And so I was like, I don't know about all this. I met Angelina Jolie on the red carpet for the outsiders a few weeks ago. You want to talk about TV and movie perfect.

[29:58] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[29:59] Andy Mientus: Well, I just was performing at the Met Gala last week, which is a whole nother story. And so I saw like kind of all the most beautiful people in the world of this thing. And there is it's a different stock. And I congratulate them.

[30:14] Alan Seales: What did you wear to the Met Gala?

[30:16] Andy Mientus: Oh, I wore what they put me in. I was an employee. But then I brought a tuxedo to wear afterward. So I put on a tuxedo.

[30:27] Alan Seales: So what chance did you embrace to go to the Met Gala?

[30:30] Andy Mientus: I put on the clothes they gave me. That was the chance.

[30:35] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[30:36] Andy Mientus: That's fair. I you know, for us plebs, speaking out of my own mouth. I don't understand the purpose of the Met Gala, other than to just

[30:42] Andy Mientus: Oh, well, let me tell you, because I actually think this is an important thing because I feel like, you know, the Met Gala is a very ostentatious event, I will say, and everyone can agree on. And I think that draws a lot of very valid and worthy criticism about like, you know, opulence, money, where what we're putting money into, when there are, you know, there's a lot going on in the world always, but you know, maybe especially right now, where we could be funneling resources. The thing about the Met Gala is that it is a benefit for the costume institute of the Met to preserve um important pieces of fashion, which are pieces of art, which you can agree with that or not, but you know, I agree with that. I think these are important artifacts made by people that are, you know, significant to our culture, our global culture.

[31:30] Alan Seales: I agree.

[31:30] Andy Mientus: And the Costume Institute is the only the only part of the Met that needs to do its own fundraising. So this is the event that does that. And so they raised $26 million dollars this year for it is like a benefit for a museum, and I think that's important context. And if like the celebrity, the fashion, the attention that you know people care maybe way too much about when there's a lot of other things to care about in the world, that gets a lot of attention, but it's for the purpose of raising a bunch of money for this museum. And it now raises like you know, 10 times what it raised before Anna Wentura came on board. So she's actually kind of a genius, I think, in making it this media frenzy around this stuff. So that's all I have to say about that.

[32:13] Alan Seales: I being inside it, I was like, oh, I have some new context here for like what this is and what it's for.

[32:18] Heather Vickery: I'm glad you shared that because I learned that same thing last week in a threads post from previous was it chance guest Lulu Picard. So I was grateful to learn that because it made me appreciate the effort instead of just kind of be a hater and think the world is literally on fire around us and we're wearing sand dresses.

[32:40] Andy Mientus: And I get that, and it's important that we talk about that every year when it comes up because it is important to talk about like why why do we do this? Why do we value celebrity? Why do we and there are plenty of events that are just for attention? And Metal is not exactly one of them. Like, you know what I mean? It is for some people, for some, it is for some attendees, certainly, but their like $75,000 table is going directly to fund this part of the museum.

[33:02] Alan Seales: So that's all I have to say about that.

[33:04] Heather Vickery: No, I think that's awesome.

[33:05] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[33:05] Heather Vickery: I d I enjoy that. Uh actually, that makes a lot of sense. And I didn't realize they are the only area that needs to do fundraising.

[33:12] Alan Seales: So yeah, you make it a contest between celebrities to see who can dress the craziest and steal their money, guys.

[33:18] Andy Mientus: Like steal their money for art. Like, I that's cool to me.

[33:21] Alan Seales: Yeah, and also, can we get a Tony Award category for best wig design? Thank you.

[33:24] Andy Mientus: Yeah. That doesn't exist yet. Let's do that.

[33:29] Alan Seales: Beautiful. You can start a campaign, Alan.

[33:30] Andy Mientus: If anybody could do it, it's you.

[33:32] Alan Seales: Me?

[33:33] Andy Mientus: Yeah. Remember that whole thing I said at the beginning about like the Broadway being the last industry to want to change? I'm trying. I'm trying so hard.

[33:41] Andy Mientus: Do you have a favorite wig this season?

[33:44] Alan Seales: Oh God. I know I'm putting you on the spot. We can come back to that.

[33:47] Andy Mientus: That's good. No. Put him on the spot.

[33:49] Alan Seales: I'm trying to remember everything I've seen. Um the problem is, not problem. This is a good this is a good thing. When it's done really well, you don't notice it's a wig.

[33:59] Andy Mientus: Exactly. Right? And that's so I think I see sometimes like, oh, is that real? Is that not like uh Emma Pittman in in The Outsiders? Uh her her I she has rat naturally red hair. I can't tell if on stage that's a wig or not, but it's beautiful. With women, you can almost always assume it's a wig just because it's just harder to, you know what I mean? There's like more hair, it's more unpredictable. And um, so I would bet that it's a wig. And yeah. I like I like Brody Grant's wigs and the outsiders too. Uh, because he has to remember he's a dye it to go on when he's when they're on the lamb, he has to die bleach it and is this horrible bleach job. The only wig I've ever worn on stage was in Wicked when when I um spoiler alert, if you've never seen Wicked, this is your chance to bow out three fast forward. One when um when Bach becomes the tin man, that silver wig. That's the only wig I've ever had to wear on stage.

[34:47] Alan Seales: What was that like?

[34:48] Andy Mientus: Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, what was it? Wicked in general, or like the transformation.

[34:52] Alan Seales: No, no, your yeah, your experience.

[34:54] Andy Mientus: It was a blast. It was um, it was like getting into a bath because like, you know, I've previous to that. I had done like my my year before I'd done Deaf West Spring Awakening. The other production of Spring Awakening that I did, which you know was a very like niche thing. We were always trying to like beg people to come, and I had done um this play called Bent at the Mark Taper Forum, which is this like deadly serious Holocaust play. And um, I mean, before that I did Lay Miz, which was a real crowd pleaser, but I feel like I had done some like real challenging stuff that didn't always have like a full house, you know. And so then to do Wicked, which is indestructible, it always works, no matter like what weird collection of coverage is on that day because it's a big cast and it's difficult and people are out all the time, um, or what you know, city we were in and what like was different about that auditorium or whatever.

Um it's indestructible, and the house was always chock full of people who had been waiting like all year to see it. You know, they bought their tickets like a year ago. So the energy was always like immaculate, you know, good vibes every day at Wicked and Um really just fun, like a fun show to do.

[36:04] Alan Seales: We're gonna take a quick break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[36:06] Andy Mientus: And now we're back.

[36:10] Alan Seales: Are you okay talking about HNPP?

[36:12] Andy Mientus: Let us get a eye question.

[36:14] Heather Vickery: Oh my god.

[36:15] Andy Mientus: Yeah.

[36:16] Heather Vickery: Would you consider that an invisible disability? Like no one would know and how important it is to talk about that.

[36:23] Andy Mientus: I would be very cautious to claim dis disability, disabled for myself, at least right now in my life. Like it's a so what it is, I have this neurological condition, I would say, um, called HNPP, hereditary neuropathy with pressure palsies that is very rare. Um I was diagnosed when I was nine years old because I woke up one morning and my foot was paralyzed. And um just like and I thought that I had broken my foot because I remember learning as a child, like if you can't move it, like if you fall down and hit your arm and you can't move it, that means you broke it. So I remember like waking up in the morning, walking from my bedroom to the bathroom and falling. I like tripped and fell. And I got up and I tripped and fell again.

And then I realized that my foot wouldn't work at all. And I was like, that's interesting. And I called my mom over and I was like, hey, mom, I think my foot's broken. I can't move it. And she was like, oh, we're going to the ER. Luckily, my mom is a nurse and she also has this condition because it is hereditary, hereditary neuropathy. And she knew it at the time. So she were like, this is something neurological is going on. And I had no obvious injuries. So I everyone's panicking. They're thinking I'm having a stroke. I am I have MS, like, you know, there's any number of like really serious things that that could be a symptom of. And my mom was like, let's absolutely test for everything. Let me just tell you, I have this thing, I've had this exact symptom, and this might be what it is.

And so then I was diagnosed. Um, we were the first like parent-child pair of people with this that my neurologist had ever seen. It's that rare. Um, and so basically it's a demyelinating condition in which it's very similar to MS, but it's not as severely progressive or certainly as quickly progressive. So basically, like you have this coating on your nerves that protects them from injury. And when you have MS or this, that coating will mysteriously just like vanish.

[38:23] Andy Mientus: It will like go away, making you prone to neurological damage. Like you, you know, something happens up here and then it affects what you like your hand down the down the chain. Um, and when you have MS, those things typically don't come back. So it's like a progressive disease in which like you lose functionality in um, you know, anything basically that your nerves can um can control bit by bit, and so that's why it you know makes people disabled and then ultimately is fatal for a lot of folks. Um whereas with HMPP, it comes back, which is very lucky. And so some things, as I understand it, will go away forever. And I have one thing that has gone away forever, pretty much, everyone's pretty sure.

Um, but like very, very, very slowly, and probably not at all. Again, my mother is 70 years old and is completely healthy. There's nothing wrong with her. Um, so I'm uh in all likelihood gonna be absolutely fine, but it does weird stuff. Like, so the thing that's gone forever on me is this nerve that holds your shoulder blade in place. And so my shoulder blade like wings out. I'm always like hunched here, and um, it causes a lot of weird stuff up my neck because it's like my shoulder is pulling on stuff in my neck, and turns out your nerves in like this part of your shoulder and your neck are what enervate your ear and control your spatial um stuff. Whoa. So I have chronic vertigo that I get like a lot.

Oh man. Um I have like terrible migraine, a lot of pain over here that I have to just manage. Um, and then so that's kind of the like constant thing that I'm always like navigating. But then there is always this low-level threat that I'm gonna wake up one morning and not be able to move stuff, which has happened in my career, and then you have to like adjust. Like when I was doing Carrie, there was this part where we had to like be up on this wall. Like um, spoiler alert. If you've never seen it on query, everybody dies. And Harry kills all the kids at the prom. And there was there in our production, they did this cool thing where they wanted her to like kind of throw everyone against the wall with her telepathy.

So like the lights went down, and when they came back up, we were all like on the wall. Um, and we were actually like holding on to these like pieces of rebar and stuff. And that like was too much pressure on some like nerve in my forearm or something, and it knocked out my grip strength in my hand. I couldn't like pinch, I couldn't grab anything, I couldn't do my buttons, and so I had to change my costume. I had to change my blocking. I had to, and luckily everyone was very um receptive to that open to what's what I'm looking for. They were great about it at MCCA about making those adjustments. Also, it's an inflammatory kind of disease where it it like it flares up, and that will mean that other things happen too.

So, like that happened because I was in a flare-up and I didn't know it. So at the time I was also getting really severe vertigo, really severe. And so there were a couple times that I called out like after the opening number, like I would like get out on stage and I would hit the first like move, and the entire theater would swing around and I would be like, I can't do this. And our stage manager, Amber White, was very gracious with me about that and took me personally to the ER one time because I was just like freaking out, my medication wasn't right yet. And um, and so you know, it's like luckily I've learned how to manage it. I've learned not to panic. Um, I learned to just kind of like be like, oh, I'm having one of those days where I'm like a little rocky or something's up, and um, yeah, so it's something I've learned how to navigate and um and deal with. But in college, this kind of led to a chance encounter too, right?

[42:04] Alan Seales: Because you got moved out of one class into another.

[42:07] Andy Mientus: Yes. You've really done your research. So um we love that Alan and his research. Thank you, Alan. Yes. So my very first day of my freshman year of college, um, in my very first class was ballet, like one. And I am not a dancer. Love to dance, love to go out to the club, but do not love to learn choreography and try to execute it. Um, just not my thing. Um, and so I was very nervous about ballet, especially because I'm very inflexible and um, and so we're like doing the class and I'm stretching and my foot goes out. I feel it happening, and I'm like, oh, oh, oh no. And luckily, I know what's happening. But I also know that when that happens, it can be days, it can be weeks, it can be months before it comes back, or like there's a you know vague possibility it might never come back, but that's you know, super rare.

I go to the ER, they're freaking out, but I'm telling them like what's up with me. Again, like no one knows what this condition is because it's so rare. Um and so I'm like educating them. I'm like, I I'm pretty sure I'm fine. You don't need to like keep me overnight to make sure I'm not having a major like neurological episode. But now I can't take ballet for the semester because I can't move my foot. So they take me out of the ballet class and put me in the tech 101 class, which the musical theater majors do have to take, but like later in their um curriculum. Um it is a required class first semester for the theater majors. Because at Michigan, the musical theater school is through the school of music, whereas the theater department is through a different department.

So, like by the time you're a senior, you interact a lot and you get to know the actors, but it's not like as closely married as some other programs. And certainly when you're a freshman, you're like kept kind of isolated. Um, but that put me in class with um my friend Darren Chris, some several buddies who are now, you know still working in the industry of kind of the uh people might know this theater company called Star Kid that like became pretty famous for like making these silly musicals and putting them on YouTube. They were all like in the theater department in Michigan. Um, and because I was now in this tech class with them, I like made this whole set of friends outside of my kind of core um classmates who are still my friends today.

[44:20] Alan Seales: And I think that's a good thing. Wait, what was your original major then? If you weren't there for theater,

[44:22] Andy Mientus: I was there for musical theater. So yeah, so what I'm saying is at Michigan, for whatever reason, the musical theater department is through the School of Music, whereas the theater department is in a different department. So they're not as you don't like take the same, you like there's some shared faculty, but they're kept a little bit more separate than in other schools, not like Carnegie Mellon or something where like the actors and the musical theater actors do like everything together. Um it's you kind of have to like go out of your way to audition for like the plays or like the play actors to audition for the musicals. You can, but it's like a process.

[44:56] Alan Seales: Um yeah.

[44:58] Andy Mientus: Um that's interesting. So you're I basically I wouldn't have gotten to know Darren as well as I do had that not happened, I don't think. Um, any second now, today, I'm pretty sure it's today, he's gonna it's gonna be announced that he's doing a project.

[45:10] Alan Seales: Yes, it's announced it's on Playbill.

[45:11] Andy Mientus: Okay, so we can talk about this. He is doing a Broadway show that my husband is directing, um, and they became friends through me. So um, you know, I love husband Michael Arden. These things, husband Michael Arden, who won a Tony for parade.

[45:23] Alan Seales: Won a Tony, he sure did, um, is directing Darren in a Broadway show um this fall and just got announced just now. Um, and it will be that's that'll be old news by the time this comes out. But um just goes to show there's like all these things I'm learning in life that like a little thing happens, and then you know, literally like 15 years later, it there are ramifications still. Like, like you just don't know how like the ripple effect of your life is gonna play out.

[45:48] Andy Mientus: And so that's cool. There's like a comfort in that. There's like a, you know, I don't believe in um much, but uh it's nice to feel like there's a maybe a path, you know.

[46:00] Alan Seales: Quickly talk about your your path to The Flash.

[46:02] Andy Mientus: How did that kind of come in? And then we have a game to play at the end that I'm excited to ask you about.

[46:08] Alan Seales: He's introducing me to a new game, so okay.

[46:11] Andy Mientus: Yeah, Heather doesn't even know what this is yet. Oh, um so The Flash. So I uh yeah, I I was in New York a little while doing um doing theater, trying to do theater, and then I like could not get on Broadway to save my life until I did a TV show about Broadway called Smash, which then sent me to LA because I was like, well, obviously I'm doing television and you know, like I think I would love to do some theater someday, but um, you know, that uh is just like not working out for me. And while I was there, I um got an audition for a sh a guest star on the show, Arrow, to play a character named Barry Allen, aka The Flash, who they were doing what's called a backdoor pilot, which like The Flash was gonna feature in several episodes of Arrow to sort of gauge the like fans' response to this character to then get his own spin-off and lead the spin-off.

And I was like, y'all, there is no way I am booking like the lead of a new superhero show in which I'm playing like the charismatic, straight superhero guy. Like that is just not my gig. But they were like, Andy, this is like a great audition. Please like get over yourself and go. And I was like, you're right. And so I went and did my best. And then I heard a couple days later that like my tape, like, so I went into the office. Um, oh, and this isn't wait, no, okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. I I got word that my tape is like making the rounds in the office, that like they like it, and like it's kind of getting up through, which is a good sign. And then I get a call that I did not get it, that ultimately I'm not the guy, but that they really, you know, liked what I did, and they think there might be something else for me down the pike, which to be honest, you hear a lot, and a lot of the time nothing comes.

And so I was like, that's nice. Like, nice they said anything. Usually you don't hear anything at all. They just say thanks so much, and that's it. You don't hear like he was terrible, he was great, nothing. You know, you know, you just move on. So I was like, okay, well, nice to get feedback. In the meantime, I get cast in La Miz um on Broadway. And so I moved back to New York to do Le Miz on Broadway for a year. So then I get an audition for a recurring character. They call it like a strong recurring, meaning like they they have plans that this character is gonna recur heavily in the show, um, named Hartley Rathaway, the Pied Piper, who I, to be honest, was unaware. I was not a like comic book person really growing up, and so I was unaware of this character, but I was quickly excited to learn that he was one of the first like major out gay characters in that he came out in the 90s and that they were gonna like keep the character gay for the series.

Um, and uh that uh like I I'm looking at the sides, and like one of the very first lines that I had in the first audition scene was like he gets kind of captured by The Flash, and he's in handcuffs, and he says, Um, well, being handcuffed by a guy in head-to-toe leather is a longtime fantasy of mine, so thanks. And I'm like, oh, this is gay gay. Like, we're this isn't like palatable, like, he just happens to be gay. Like, I was like, oh no, he's making leather jokes. Like, yes, you know, Greg Berlanti is the showrunner, famous, you know, gay um media mogul, um writer creator. And um, you know, there's just like I can tell there's gays on the ground, and I'm excited by that. I love that. I'm like, ooh, I want this so bad, but like I'm doing Le Miz at the time.

I don't know if I'm gonna be able to like do it. And I have this audition coming up, and um, so I'm gonna fly to LA on my day off to audition. Because that was back then. We like weren't doing tapes yet, um, or at least as much. Um, or at least not at this like the stakes of this audition. I have to go in. So I I'm off Le Miz on Monday. I'm gonna take the red eye Sunday night, get into LA on Monday morning, um, do the thing and fly back for my show on Tuesday. And in the Sunday matinee of Le Miz, as I'm like working on my sides, I start to notice that my vision is getting cloudy in one eye.

[50:22] Andy Mientus: Okay. I'm like, I'm like, oh, am I getting like pink eye? Like, what's that about? And it starts to sting and starting to like close. And I'm like, I go to the stage management, I'm like, guys, something's up, and I don't know that I can continue, unfortunately. They're like, let us know, like take care of yourself. By intermission, I'm like, I'm out, I absolutely or not sorry, not even by intermission. By the time I have to go from being like the ensemble track to Marius, because this is a tangent, but in La Miz, you have to be in the ensemble when you're not your principal. And so I'm like various villagers and things until I have this 20-minute break before Marius shows up in Paris, in which I become Marius.

And I I hit that break, and I'm like, my eye is swelling shut, something is really wrong, and I'm in a lot of pain. I need to go to the ER. And they're like, go, great. So they like put you know, Chris McCarroll, I think, who was my understudy at the time in costume, and he goes on, and I go to the ER.

[51:14] Andy Mientus: And I have a corneal abrasion. And I actually they send me away with no pain medication and like just drops, and I have to go back to the ER that night. So I'm up until like, you know, the middle of the night. Uh I think I miss my flight because of that. And I end up getting like the morning flight, but I do not sleep. And now I have to wear my glasses. And I is like, I look crazy. And so I go in and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I have to wear my glasses. This thing happened to me. And they're like totally fine. I do the audition. Um I get back to New York, and I learned that I got it. And luckily, Le Miz lets me take a leave of absence to shoot the first two episodes, which was a month, took a month to shoot it.

Um, and they liked my glasses so much they bought the exact same glasses as my prop glasses for the characters. So the glasses that I wear on the show were my, they're not the same actual object, but they're um they're the same frame. Wow. Random fun fact. My youngest daughter, who is 11, is currently Ben Jane, The Flash. So last night I was like, so you know that character Hartley in The Flash? He's like, Yeah, I was like, oh, you know, I'm interviewing him tomorrow. I got really big cool points last night. Oh anytime I work with kids, it's a big deal. Like when I did I did the structure of Tommy and all the little Tommies were like very excited that I was on this show. So that's fun.

[52:41] Alan Seales: That's awesome. All right. One more quick break. Hang on a second. All right. Here's the rest of the episode. All right, all right. So this episode is also going to be a cross post later in my other my solo podcast. Um the theater podcast with Alan Seales. You should check it out. A game I started doing on that feed is called Plot in 60 Seconds. So I put 60 seconds up on the screen, and then you have to give me the plot to a musical in that 60 seconds. And normally I would have you give me a number, which course randomly which corresponds to a list of shows that I have. But because of who you are, we're gonna go with Spring Awakening. And go.

[53:27] Andy Mientus: 60 seconds remaining. Spring Awakening is a rock musical, alternative rock musical about um German children learning how to masturbate in 1891. Um, it's about German children awakening to their sexuality and butting up against a um patriarchal parent society that won't listen to them and won't hear their um their pain and their cries, and what happens when parents and children when generations can't speak to each other.

[53:52] Alan Seales: Wow. Next who's in it, what happens?

[53:55] Andy Mientus: Oh, the well, kind of unimportant. It's an ensemble cast of various characters Melchior, Venla, Moritz, Marta, Hanshin, who all um represent different aspects of being young, of being unheard. Um, various terrible things happen to almost all of them, uh, unfortunately. Um but in the end, there's a hopeful message that um that the change is possible and the communication between generations is possible.

[54:21] Alan Seales: Oh wow, six seconds left. That is a good idea. This is a great opportunity, Andy, since you didn't know what was coming for you to just bust out with your own version of Shut the Fuck Up, Alan.

[54:30] Andy Mientus: I'm just gonna say. Shut the fuck up, Alan. Shut the fuck up. You can shut up, Alan. Shut the fuck up. It's awesome. I like it. Thank you. It's been a long time since we've gotten a version of that.

[54:43] Alan Seales: Oh, it makes me so happy. That was very Stephen Sater over duck and cheek of you, I guess. Now we bring it all back together.

[54:50] Andy Mientus: Yeah.

[54:52] Alan Seales: All right. So the normal uh one of the closing questions we normally ask on was a chance was just um what is your relationship with failure in general?

[55:01] Andy Mientus: Oh, um, it's a close personal friend because I experience it way more often than not. Um many times a week do I fail. Yeah, it never gets easier. You never fail less. You think like the more times you fail, you're going to, I don't know, like learn something about how to make that not happen so much. But then when you do what I do, the thing itself is always changing. You know, it's if I was auditioning for the same show again and again and again, maybe I would like finally crack it on the 200th time. But like it's a different show every time. And so you just get better at dealing with it, maybe, but then it occasionally um just will sneak up on you and you can't get up off the couch for the day because you're sad.

And um, I've learned to be better at that. Uh like at being gentle with myself when that happens and just being like, yeah, this is the gig today is just sort of taking care of myself, taking the day off, um, not thinking about it at all, um, playing with my dog, like whatever it takes. Um, and just accepting that it's the given the literal rules of mathematics and probability, the more jobs you don't get, uh, you know, you're the closer you are to the one that you inevitably will get. Um, you know, you can only flip a tail so many times before you have to flip ahead. You try to remember that.

[56:17] Alan Seales: I love that.

[56:18] Andy Mientus: Me too. It it is I mean, it is. You it shows up over and over again. I think it's pretty powerful to say, oh yeah, we're buddies. Like this is gonna happen. I we we see each other a lot versus you know, people who want to pretend they think they need to pretend that they don't fail because that makes them stronger. It just you know that's gonna that's gonna bite you in the ass.

[56:41] Alan Seales: For sure. Kelly Clarkson wrote a whole song about it.

[56:47] Andy Mientus: Shut the fuck up, man. Beautiful. Justin Guardiany did his own rendition of Shut the Fuck Up, Alan. Friend of Kelly Clemson. Friend of Kelly Clarkson. That is in fact how I got there. Yeah, that was the inside track on my brain.

[57:03] Alan Seales: Andy, this is amazing. Thank you so much. What a treat for thanks so much for having me. And I hope if you hear this and you can make it out to the Cape Playhouse, you come see tick tick boom. It's so good. The cast is so crazy. The production is so special. I love it so much.

[57:19] Andy Mientus: Yeah, it runs June 5th to June 15th. Uh their tagline is where Broadway goes to summer since 1927.

[57:26] Alan Seales: That's pretty awesome. Well, hey now. That sounds great. It sounds great. I know I'm gonna go so far. I mean, uh the resume continues to grow and AI is gonna try to hard keep up, but how can folks find you and and all that good stuff?

[57:39] Andy Mientus: Yeah, I have been really limiting my uh online presence for my own health and safety. For you. So I am only now on Instagram. If you find me anywhere else, that's not actually me. It's just my name at Andy Mientus. I only use this platform on Fridays, so you'll only see me post very rarely, but um, I always try to, when I do have something to share to, you know, sell or or promote or whatever. You can find it there. Um I'm also an author, which people may not know. We talked about you, you talked about how much you loved having authors on the show and and getting back to actors, and I happen to be both. Um I've written three middle grade books in a series called The Backstagers and one young adult novel called Fraternity, all published by Abrams uh books and available where all books are sold and on audiobook, which I read, so you can find those if you want to engage with that.

[58:30] Alan Seales: Yeah, stay tuned for whatever the hell I keep myself busy with for the rest of the year.

[58:35] Andy Mientus: Yeah, we didn't get a chance to cover the backstagers. And then uh is anything happening with Burn All Night, your original musical?

[58:43] Andy Mientus: Oh gosh, well, who can say? Oh, that tells me there's something juicy. Oh who knows? But uh well, you'll have to have me back on. There's so much more to talk about.

[58:51] Alan Seales: Okay. Um we'll do it. Andy, thank you so much.

[58:56] Andy Mientus: Thanks so much. Bye, everybody.

[59:00] Alan Seales: That was so fun.

[59:02] Heather Vickery: He's darling.

[59:03] Alan Seales: Dar, yes, he is darling.

[59:05] Heather Vickery: He is very darling. I mean, he's very handsome, strong, and handsome. Dolly got it right, but also just kind and fun and sweet and funny. And I'm gonna use the word darling. Andy, I hope that's okay with you.

[59:15] Andy Mientus: I think it's okay.

[59:17] Heather Vickery: Yeah, did you hear that? You just said that in. You're adorable.

[59:21] Alan Seales: I love it. And wow, what a vast beautiful resume.

[59:26] Heather Vickery: Right.

[59:27] Alan Seales: Cow.

[59:27] Heather Vickery: Right?

[59:28] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[59:28] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[59:29] Alan Seales: And author, like, composer. Is there anything this man can't do?

[59:33] Heather Vickery: Uh yeah. That's it. That was something like I do want to have him back eventually. I mean, it sounds like there's something secret going on with Burn All Night, his original musical that we didn't have time to get into. But yeah, he's like author and this musical. And I was gonna ask too about like in the artist world, you're often creating your own work to try to uh give yourself a platform to stand out. And you know, I guess Lynn Manuel being one of the biggest examples of that succeeding is you write your own content if you can't find something that fits.

[1:00:04] Alan Seales: And but yeah, Andy, and he's just this nice dude.

[1:00:08] Heather Vickery: He's darling, as you said.

[1:00:10] Alan Seales: He's darling, and just goes with whatever is thrown at him, and especially uh I'm so glad he was he was open about talking about um HNPP.

[1:00:21] Heather Vickery: Uh yeah, because that's greatly affecting his life and his career.

[1:00:25] Alan Seales: And he's just like, All right, I'm gonna put myself in environments where when it I have a flare up or when I have an issue that that I can adjust and continue and just adapt adapt however you need to.

[1:00:37] Heather Vickery: And the whole crew or the whole cast is just like, yeah, we're going with it. I mean, I think that's important. He he did not want it to be considered an invisible disability, and I will totally honor that. But it is important to recognize that what's happening in our lives can affect other things, and we need to own it and we need to be honest about it and find a way to work with it.

[1:00:56] Alan Seales: And it's that's a big deal for him for those things to pop up like that.

[1:00:59] Heather Vickery: And I love that the industry has found a way to make it all okay, and that he could keeps to gets to keep doing this incredible work that he's so skilled at, no matter what.

[1:01:10] Alan Seales: And just a reminder for listeners like you know, whatever you've got going on, find a way to make it work for you. Don't let it shut you down.

[1:01:16] Heather Vickery: I agree. Don't let it shut you down. Keep going, and uh and lead into what makes you uniquely different. That's what always that's like that's the takeaway of everything in in the arts world is just don't try to be somebody else because you're gonna be an imitation of them. Be your best self.

[1:01:31] Alan Seales: That's right.

[1:01:33] Heather Vickery: Oh, I love that. That's a nice place to put a pen in it. Alan, we love to hear from all of the listeners. Can you tell folks how they can find us and where they can find us?

[1:01:46] Alan Seales: Sure. I'm able to.

[1:01:49] Heather Vickery: Shut the fuck up.

[1:01:51] Alan Seales: Alan! Yes, find us at wasitchance podcast at gmail.com. We're on Instagram at threads, just at our name. Was it chance? Leave uh leave a rating and review wherever you're listening because it helps spread the word. And shoot us, shoot a message in our DMs, tag us in your stories, we'll repost, we'll share, we'll respond because it's just us doing this, man.

[1:02:13] Heather Vickery: We do it for the funsies.

[1:02:14] Alan Seales: And by just us, he means it's me.

[1:02:18] Heather Vickery: Hey, I I lend a voice and I edit and I post.

[1:02:22] Alan Seales: He does.

[1:02:22] Heather Vickery: No, I don't Alan does a ton of work.

[1:02:24] Alan Seales: I'm talking about on social media.

[1:02:25] Heather Vickery: Oh yeah, social media, that's all you.

[1:02:27] Alan Seales: That is and I do talk to myself.

[1:02:28] Heather Vickery: That's a young I crack myself up. I'll post as was it chance, and then I'll respond as me.

[1:02:36] Alan Seales: You're showing all your cards.

[1:02:37] Heather Vickery: You're showing all your cards right now.

[1:02:39] Alan Seales: You guys, I know.

[1:02:40] Heather Vickery: I'm just saying, we're working really hard over here.

[1:02:41] Alan Seales: Alan works his ass off. He does all the editing. He works so hard.

[1:02:45] Heather Vickery: Well, I'm so grateful for you, Alan.

[1:02:47] Alan Seales: Thank you.

[1:02:48] Heather Vickery: I'm grateful for you too. Let's keep this going. You're my BFF.

[1:02:51] Alan Seales: I sent you a BFF post on Instagram the other day.

[1:02:54] Heather Vickery: Did you see it?

[1:02:55] Alan Seales: I no, if it's a story, I typically don't see them because they go away so quickly.

[1:02:59] Heather Vickery: I don't check every day because I'm not that good with social media.

[1:03:02] Alan Seales: See, that's why you do it.

[1:03:03] Heather Vickery: Yeah, that's the way I do it.

[1:03:05] Alan Seales: Well, we really do listen. And I will say this I screenshot and share. And I'm like, Alan, look, they love us. It's very exciting.

[1:03:12] Heather Vickery: And then we get all you know goofy, googly eyed.

[1:03:14] Alan Seales: So they really like me.

[1:03:16] Heather Vickery: They like us. Come say hi, follow, share with your friends, tell everybody about it. Um we have so much fun doing this show and bringing you these incredible guests and we're really really grateful that you join us.

[1:03:28] Alan Seales: You have been listening to Was It Chance. This is the podcast about embracing opportunity and taking intentional risk for your creative life and I promise you are creative.

[1:03:36] Heather Vickery: I'm Heather Vickery and I promise you are creative too.

[1:03:38] Alan Seales: I'm Alan Seales.

[1:03:41] Heather Vickery: Bye friends.

[1:03:42] Alan Seales: Bye bye friends.