This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:06] Josh Mitchell: One and all, we are here for a chat. It is gonna be odd and exciting because we got podcasters galore here on the podcast this week. Hello, Victoria, Eliza, what's going on?

[0:16] Tori: Hello!

[0:17] Eliza: Hi!

[0:18] Tori: This is so this is really weird. I didn't expect to need to like introduce myself just then. I was like, oh no, this is this is this is not my show.

[0:29] Josh Mitchell: Alright. I know. So for all of my listeners, if you guys don't know who these girls are, they run the Stage Door Podcast. They're pretty much the other Australian theatre podcast right now that is running amuck around the world while we are bringing theatre back to it. Where did you guys how did you guys start your show?

[0:44] Tori: Oh wow. Well, I guess for me, it's I think what I always say, I've I had the idea of this podcast for many, many, many years. I've always been a theater lover, and I've always been a performer, so I was kind of like, I would love to do, you know, a podcast. And podcasts are like my go-to for like if I'm working out or I'm driving. So I was like, you know what? There's not enough theater podcasts. I want to start one, but I never wanted to do it by myself because, well, I did honestly when we started this idea, we didn't know what it was gonna be. Was it just gonna be talking about theater? Was it gonna be interviewing? And then Eliza and I went to uni together. We were about a year apart at uni and we became good friends then, and we started working together at a theater, and I literally just one day was like, hey, I've had this idea for ages of doing a podcast about theatre.

We really click and you have really good energy, because I think that's so important in a podcast is like a person's energy. And I was like, would you wanna do a podcast with me? And she said, Yes, evidently. Here I am.

[2:04] Eliza: I definitely said yes. And I mean, also the podcast kind of came out of also a time like with COVID. We didn't start the podcast when COVID started. We started talking about it pre-COVID. But then of course, when COVID hit, like Tori said, we didn't have an exact idea about what we wanted to do. We didn't know if it was basically gonna be us at the time. We were like, oh no one's gonna want to talk to us. Oh, even getting like a teacher from where we used to perform, that would be difficult. And then obviously COVID hit, and then Tori and I just went, let's do it. Why not? And we took that leap of faith and emailed a bunch of amazing performers, and we have learned through doing this podcast just how putting yourself out there can get you further than what you can expect.

[3:02] Tori: It's crazy, like the responses that we have had, because I think we started off, yeah, with really with the idea of we're just gonna be chatting about theater, and I think our first couple of episodes was that you know, our first edge like we talked about why we love theater, we did an episode about like stage door etiquette and stuff like that, and then we just kind of went, okay, so we'll get a friend on the podcast, test having a guest, see what that's like. Maybe that's something we can do occasionally have a guest, and then we went, okay, we did a show together with the beautiful Liz Evans who does cabaret. Like, okay, we'll ask her. And then we just kind of went one day. We both studied with Monique Saleh, and we just kind of went one day.

You know what? We'll do it, we'll ask. You know, if she rejects us, it will suck, but it's okay, you know, you keep moving. And she said yes, and then we kind of just, yeah, like Eliza said, just had this like, oh, we're allowed to we're allowed to reach out to people. Like, people are allowed to say no.

[4:06] Eliza: Yeah, but like we're allowed to like message these people, and then you know, we messaged Mon and we messaged Gareth Isaac, and we messaged Georgina Hobson and Video McCann and all kinds of people, and we were just like, Oh, people like doing this.

[4:22] Tori: Yeah, exactly. Like, and I started my first show with six, like in the start of 2020, so like before everything was kind of bubbling. Like, I was in New York and got the all clear to do it, and then got home, COVID hit, and all of a sudden everyone was like, Cool, we want to talk. Can you like they had time, and I was like, Yeah, cool, alright, we can do this. Let's sit down and have a chat. So, um, yeah, I really like that, like just reaching out to people. Huge thing, like, and it's like getting that over that hump where it's like, yeah, cool, I know what I'm doing. I think, yeah. If I'm not, and I know what I'm doing, yeah.

[5:01] Eliza: Exactly, and then as performers, because both Tori and I obviously started as performers ourselves, and we still are performers, but as performers, we don't ask for things, we're scared when we're at a director's table or we're doing an audition, we'll be too scared to ask the questions, we're too scared to go, hey, I really would love some help. Could you come and teach me something? Where we're nervous about doing those things because oh, we can't overstep our boundary. Oh, we can't do this, we can't do that. But I definitely think we both have learnt to just go for what we want, yeah, and to start worrying about the what ifs or the oh could this be a bad move? Just jump in headfirst and just go for it.

[5:46] Josh Mitchell: Now, for those of you listening at home, pretty much if you look at the last like four or five episodes of our podcast side by side, we've pretty much covered the same stuff. Like it's hilarious. Um but we're in completely different world. So when you guys figured out what you guys were doing, started you guess. Um what did you guys look for? Um how did you like structure your episodes and think about cool, this is what we're gonna talk about in this episode with this person?

[6:17] Tori: I think we kind of collectively um we look we like to look at a person's resume. I think at first we were kind of just like, uh, like just ask them anything about their career. But then as we kind of got the hang of it and we're doing it more often, we together kind of would curate a list of broader and more specific questions that we think our listeners would be interested in as well as ourselves, because this is also a learning process for us. We're getting to hear from industry professionals about their experience and their do's and don'ts and their yeah, their experience in theatre. So we kind of just curated questions that you know sometimes asked the hard questions, but also we still want to keep it light and fun to listen to.

[7:06] Eliza: Um so I think yeah, we kind of just curated based on like their resume, what they're currently doing, if they weren't doing anything, their hopes for the future any advice as well because so often exactly like Eliza said you're scared to ask people these things sometimes so it's good I think to have that connection through us of going so this is what you guys wish you could ask so we're gonna find out the answers for you.

[7:06] Tori: Yeah, yeah, I've found that a lot like even directors producers and all that type of thing I've had casting agents on a couple of my shows and and like they're just willing to give you information if you ask the right question. I'm like cool I'm not in that world but someone listening might want this information here I'll ask this question.

[7:49] Eliza: Oh definitely I think one of my favorite episodes we did was with a casting director Daisy Hicks who casts shows because I was sitting there going oh my god so many of our listeners are gonna be so excited to hear this information like this is what you what you dream to hear and so it's really exciting for us when we find out information that not only did we not know but that our listeners will really take value from.

[8:17] Josh Mitchell: Yeah. So starting a podcast during COVID what was the hardest thing for you guys getting things up and running?

[8:28] Tori: Oh technology technology that was even I think the first couple of episodes I think we filmed recorded sorry together um at Eliza's house and um also discovering that echo is a thing, and like obviously, like you know these things, but when you discover them and it's your own work, and you're like, Oh, okay, that's that's great. Um, I think technology was a hard thing, like we uh very quickly went from recording in person to only being able to record online and figuring out you know, very soon after COVID really hit Australia. That's when we started to have guests, and then going, Oh god, like how do we if we were to do this in person, it would probably be heaps easier, which we did discover.

It's actually not a lot easier. Um but going, okay, like do we use Zoom? Do we use like do we use Google Meets? Like, how do we get their recording? Because obviously, like you can record via Zoom, but sometimes that it sometimes it works really well, sometimes it doesn't. Like, I think technology was a big was a big thing for us, I would say, right?

[9:45] Eliza: Right? Yeah, we had one episode actually, and it was quite early on, and so like the amazing Chris Fung. We had we had the incredible Chris Fong on, and he's on West End now, he's in Frozen right now, playing the king in Frozen. He is just doing amazing stuff. And he came on very generously, um, came on to our podcast, and we did our first episode. And in our emails, we always say, you know, wear headphones and stuff, but because we were such newbies, we didn't check double check, we were just excited about doing the episode. So anyway, we go and we do the episode, and unfortunately, there were no headphones on his end the whole time, which actually for viewers at home means that your audio bleeds through and you can hear it in their audio, so you cannot use the episode at all.

So that was like we tried. I think I I think I spent a few hours trying to work on that episode, trying to be like, no, no, it's fine. I don't want to I don't want to have to go back and ask him again to come back on because how awful would that be and I tried so hard because I think we got to the end of the episode and it was like it was on us because we kind of I went at the end I went oh god I didn't think that he was wearing headphones.

[11:03] Tori: Yeah I didn't I didn't even think to ask and what a generous guy though he came back on he was we recorded twice more he Chris was our our little test subject with all of our technical difficulties because we ended up having to record three times um but you know what can we what can you do no he was amazing.

[11:24] Eliza: I totally understand that like I was I can't even remember how many episodes I was in I got Courtney Monsma from Six on or who's now Frozen but um and for whatever reason my recordings with her malfunctioned and corrupted the files so we had like an hour long episode that I just couldn't use any of and I was like hey caught um hey luckily like technology and podcasting guys um they shouldn't but they definitely do not um as much as you want to work um nine times out of ten it will not um no we've had we even we even found like our solution to this when recording remotely which is pretty much all we do now since Eliza has moved into state we discovered the amazing uh website called Squadcast which is like zoomed for specifically for podcast recording.

[12:16] Tori: Yes.

[12:17] Eliza: But of course, it does cost to use. And it just sometimes it still just does not work. We've had like guests drop out of the call three or four times, and we're just like, we're so sorry. There is just nothing that we can do.

[12:28] Tori: Literally nothing.

[12:33] Eliza: Yeah. Thank you for your time. We appreciate you. Please don't hate us.

[12:37] Tori: Yeah. But sometimes it's not even like technology. Like I've recorded guests in the UK and power has gone out in their house. And like I've had Whoa!

[12:45] Eliza: Yeah, like it's been insane.

[12:48] Tori: COVID really just had fun with recording episodes. So I've got like a lot of editing where it's like dead air because people like just weren't there for 20 minutes while all their power came back on. Just hilarious. Love it. Love it. Um so going into the end of 2020, we got shows back here. So what was that like for you guys, not only as podcasters but theatre fans, to see the industry kind of wake back up here.

[13:18] Eliza: It was emotional.

[13:21] Tori: Yeah.

[13:21] Eliza: Yeah, definitely. Like I think we spoke about it many times on the podcast. Like going back to see live theater again was like one of those things. And it's so awful because obviously we're very lucky here that we do get to have theatre back at the moment, and we are back at the hundred percent capacity. Um but like seeing shows uh like was a very emotional experience because you're like, we I there was a point in our lives where we just went, we well theater might just not exist anymore. We just might not we might not get to see it, we might not get to do it anymore. So I think it was really emotional. I think the first like big show that I saw again was Frozen, and I balled my eyes out because I was like, I just never thought that this was gonna happen again.

[14:06] Tori: Yeah, I went to the first show, Frozen, like when it came back, and I remember sitting there and just hearing nah nah, and I was just like amazed it was just like chilling. And I was like, nope, this is it. I'm going home.

[14:21] Eliza: Oh yeah. I think as well, um having shows back has actually given us a lot of opportunities as well. And that has been something that's been really lovely because we did create this during COVID. And so we've just been talking to people who were doing amazing things before COVID or have had really awesome COVID initiatives. Like a lot of the online shows that had been on, we'd been interviewing some people from those. So it was really exciting and it has been very exciting to finally get to talk to people who are in shows and hear a little bit about what what has changed what what is new their own excitement because hearing their excitement about coming back from COVID is probably the best thing.

[15:04] Tori: Yeah right it's it's like it's such a weird thing and for those of you listening abroad um right now at point of recording we know the West End's months away from reopening and Broadway's just released ticket sales for its start. So things are waking back up worldwide it's so good and like just to be able to reach out and connect with people and then discuss what they went through like not only as a performer but personally through those 12 months and the things that they had to do a lot of really eye opening stories I think and seeing how other people handled it. Because like my COVID was great because I had the Queen of podcast and I was recording every week and I was not even I was living in my own little bubble where outside it didn't really affect me. And then I start talking to people and I'm like, okay, like now I understand other perspectives. It was just really interesting from my point.

[16:03] Eliza: Um let's have a chat about podcasting, setting things up and getting connected with people. Uh for those people at home that have ever thought about starting a podcast, this is going to be your go-to guide of getting things up and ready.

[16:20] Tori: People who really don't know what they're doing, but we're gonna tell you anyway.

[16:23] Eliza: Yeah.

[16:23] Tori: Oh yeah, 100%. That's the thing. If you don't know what you're doing, start a podcast because we don't either. Let's be real.

[16:30] Eliza: Um no, you're you're 100% correct. Literally. I think we started this and I was like, so I think Eliza said to me, like, what do we like need to do? And I was like, record.

[16:45] Tori: Yeah.

[16:46] Eliza: And edit. And and we upload it somewhere. And then we hope for the best and hope that people like it uh are listening to it and that it does not sound like shit.

[16:57] Tori: Yeah. Exactly. 100%. That was it. And like I recorded my first episode of Queen and Podcast in my hotel room in New York on my phone. Like if you go back, the audio quality is absolutely horrendous. But launched that thing. Um, so let's strip it back because you guys have just done a rebranding season two. So let's uh look at it from our knowledge of what we know now, not what we didn't know.

[17:25] Eliza: We did know. Branding your show, figuring out name, theme, how you get to present yourself on social media. How did you guys come up with your kind of um vibe on socials?

[17:39] Tori: I think this is a very oh sorry.

[17:41] Eliza: No, no, go for it.

[17:43] Tori: This is a I think that this is a very important question because for Tori and I, we did change the name of the show.

[17:51] Eliza: Oh, what?

[17:52] Tori: So that was quite so we did we have in our new rebrand just slightly changed it. It's still PS Meet Me at Stage Door, but now it's Stage Door Podcast. Because when we were talking to people, they were like, oh, um, stagedoor podcast, right? So they would abbreviate it themselves. And so when we came into 2021, we really wanted to rebrand to that shortened name. But we still kept in our like in our intro and our song title, because we love our little jingle, and it's almost like an addition to the name. It's now more the jingle rather than the actual name. But Tori actually does most of our social media, so Tori, take it away.

[18:34] Tori: I think I think, yeah, I think we learnt quite quickly, like with like the name, I think we loved it and we still love it, and it is it's more like our lo our slogan now. Um I think we kind of were super excited with the name, and I think quite quickly into season one, we kind of went, Oh, it's maybe a little bit long for a name. Um and like exactly like Eliza said, like we were talking to people, and I would talk to people at at like workshops and things like that, and they'd be like, I'd say PS Meet Me at Stage Door, and they're like, Oh, yeah, that stagedoor podcast. And I'm like, mm, okay. So the name doesn't quite stick in anybody's head. So when it came to 2021, we went, okay. We wanted to sit down with our designer.

We reworked our logo a little bit just to make it match our new aesthetic a bit more. Because we started off with these really always really bright coloured posts, but it all just started to feel a little incohesive. Like a little bit so yeah, it didn't look very, you know. I'm very much someone that's about as a social media manager, very much making it aesthetic and a continuous aesthetic. So we sat down both together and with um our designer who designed our logo, which is the brilliant Kate Gunther, uh Catherine Gunther, I guess. Um, and kind of had that conversation about the colour scheme and just updating our logo to make it a bit fresher and also look a little bit more like us, because you know, I think maybe it was like a month into the first season that Kate actually said to us, can I rework the logo a little bit?

And we were and I was kind of like, oh, it's a little bit late now to change it. So we did decide then, okay, season two, we're gonna create a colour scheme for our social media, something that we the color scheme that we kind of relate to and that we were kind of always using as an underlying thing, which was those like pink and mauve colors. And because when we started the first season, we didn't really know what we wanted to do. We didn't really know who we were, what kind of podcast we were. We didn't go into it going, we're gonna be an interview-based podcast. We just went into it going theater, yay. Um so we took that on board, and I pretty much went through and created templates for all of the different posts that we do.

Sometimes we still need to create a new and different ones for you know, we we recently interviewed suddenly, um, and I need to create some other templates to be able to workshop their art a little bit more, and so it wasn't too much about our art for them. Um so yeah, I think with the social media, we just created more of a schedule, more of you know what we wanted to be putting out there, and it's all honestly, it's always trial and error. Like sometimes, even when we came back for we had I had tried, I was really determined in season one to do this thing called Stage Door Sundays, where people would send photos of them at stagedoor. And I was like, which I looked through your feed and I'm like, that lasted like a month, month and a half.

Yeah, it look it I it was okay for most of season one, but it did get to the point where um this is me giving my secrets away. I was reaching out to people asking for photos because also what didn't occur to me was that people aren't seeing shows. Not stagedoor. So people aren't people aren't going to stage door. So I was like scrolling through Instagram with like hashtag stagedoor and like trying to find photos and like reaching out to people, and it got to the point where I went, you know what, it's just not really working, and that's okay. Um, I think it's also being okay with like that sometimes stuff just doesn't work, and that's fine. Um, you know, we were paying like monthly for this website to use where we could annotate our sneak peeks, and then I went, you know, I could do this myself, and it would be a lot easier and a lot cheaper.

[22:30] Eliza: Um I think it's yeah, just I think my main thing with social media and social media management, because I do it for a couple of different people, is just learning from everything. And it's if something doesn't work, that's okay. It can be disappointing, but that's okay. Like I learned that creating our website, that was a time. I need to find your website, hold up. Let me go to your link tree. Um, but yeah, it's actually very pretty. I'm very impressed with our website. Tori is a bit of a master with the website, it's probably my greatest, the greatest thing on stage or podcasts is our beautiful website. But you know, it's a website. People don't usually go to websites. They go to Instagram. They say people don't really use websites as much anymore. Uh like people.

[23:13] Tori: Yeah.

[23:13] Eliza: Yeah. It it is important to have because we have started to put reviews up there. And so um that is also another aspect um to think about when you are doing a podcast is to have a website that when you're trying to market yourself to people or you know, approaching networks or approaching uh guests you can actually send them your link to your website and it makes you look like more professional. So that's definitely something I would um suggest to anyone who is looking to do podcasting.

[23:42] Tori: Before we get to reaching out let's talk about oh my god what was the next thing I was going to talk about there was another good topic in there and this is the thing guys what you're hearing right now sometimes you get good thoughts and then you forget them on air and oh it's it's just really the amount of time yeah the amount of time that happened where I've literally gone completely brain like I can blank blank and I'm sitting there and I'm looking at an amazing guest who is invested in my question and I and I can't remember what I was about to say.

[24:16] Eliza: Um so we get our social media set get your name set um figure out what you're gonna look like um yeah obviously sitting down and planning content sometimes you just gotta work through it like honestly even with my first show it was just pulling stuff out of thin air for six weeks before I landed a guest and then I was like, cool, now I know what I'm doing. Sweet.

[24:37] Tori: Um, so I'm not gonna touch too much on that because like that's a personal.

[24:41] Eliza: It's it's yeah, it's it's exactly it's a thing like you gotta work through it. Like we did not start out. We we started out kind of just going, I guess we'll talk about this this week and we'll see what happens. And like it's just it's seriously is such a learning process, and it's also something that I'm trying to like. I do have a couple of other things, like podcast things in the works and trying to explain to people as someone that's now done a podcast, we can plan as much as we'd like. It's probably not gonna work that way.

[25:11] Tori: That's what I'm like. I've got like seven things that have been said yes to that just aren't going anywhere, and I'm like, Yeah. Let's go.

[25:21] Eliza: So you can't rely on other people to get your stuff sorted. Um, let's talk about hosting. What do you guys use to upload your podcast to? What website do you use?

[25:33] Tori: We do uh currently Buzz Sprout.

[25:33] Eliza: Buzz Sprout.

[25:37] Tori: Oh my god, that's where I started too. Buzz Sprout is legitimately one of my... Which is a good question. Where do you currently... oh because you're with Broadway Podcasting Network?

[25:46] Eliza: Hosted by the network.

[25:47] Tori: So um for any... yeah, for those of you who don't know, you guys will hear ads throughout the episode. That's because I'm signed with BPN.

[25:53] Tori: So they now host my podcast for me. But prior to that, I was with Buzz Sprout. So Buzz Sprout essentially is where you upload your show to get it uploaded onto Apple and Spotify and that type of thing.

[26:05] Eliza: How much research did you do? Or did you just call it Buzz Sprout?

[26:08] Tori: Yeah, that works. I think we kind of... Eliza and I sat together, uh, we had like our first meeting, um, and we kind of sat and we looked at Buzz Sprout. I think to us, and correct me if I'm wrong, Eliza, it seemed like the simplest way to start out.

[26:24] Eliza: Yeah, yeah.

[26:25] Tori: We've definitely looked at other options since because we have had some like little hiccups along the way, which has been a mix of user error and like um just like technical, you know, technology. It it's a ever... it's a growing thing that's constantly changing. But I think we did some research online. I think Eliza actually did quite a chunk of that research um while I was doing a lot of the branding stuff.

[26:50] Eliza: Yeah, yeah.

[26:51] Tori: And I think that for us when looking at which network to go with, there were quite a few networks that had... and I... it was so long ago, so I'm trying to remember now, but I... it was... they would take... you would get money from them, but it was just... it just seemed a little sketchy on my end, and I was like, this is a little too good to be true.

[27:14] Tori: It's about ads, they would put ads out and you would get a small commission of that, but it would be so minute that it doesn't actually give you any money at all. So we were like, I think Buzzsprout was just the most straightforward, it was the most well-rounded, and especially because you have to get... I forgot what it's called now. Wow, it's been so long, it's been like a year and a half, two years.

[27:37] Eliza: RSS.

[27:38] Tori: RSS. Yeah, so you have to get an RSS feed, and BuzzSprout was probably the easiest to just get everything going and happen straight away. And that was why we went with that network.

[27:50] Eliza: And I think not network.

[27:51] Tori: Yeah, with that, with that uh broadcasting network, yeah. Because like when we were looking at it as well, BuzzSprout's website was super straightforward. Like it just said, like, it's gonna give you this.

[27:59] Eliza: Yeah, exactly.

[27:59] Tori: It's gonna give you this. You're gonna be able to do this, this, and this, go have fun. Whereas some other websites we looked at, we were trying to find out can we get an RSS feed? Do we need to pay more for that? Because obviously you have to pay for a um broadcaster unless you're with a network. I don't quite know how that works, but you need to pay for it in some way, shape, or form.

[28:24] Eliza: It's not...

[28:25] Tori: And Buzz Sprout is very manageable. Like obviously, we make a little bit from our podcast, but not a whole bunch. We... this is like a passion project for us. If you're podcasting for money, you're in the wrong industry. Straight out.

[28:37] Eliza: Oh, yeah.

[28:38] Tori: Get out. No, that's not why... that's not why we're here. Um, but I think yeah, Buzz Sprout was like just super clean, straightforward, to the point. Also, when we've had to contact them, they've been relatively good about getting back to us quickly.

[28:54] Tori: I think when we uploaded our first episode, it was actually kind of by accident because we assumed that when we uploaded and like put it live to like uh what is it, iTunes and like Spotify that it would take some time, uh like you know, a week or two or something, and that's what it said, and then all of a sudden we were like, Oh, oh, the first episode. Cool.

[29:17] Eliza: That's the perfect segue.

[29:19] Tori: So get the first episode recorded, upload it into your thing. Most of the websites that you use, guys, are pretty click friendly. Um, you have to get your RSS feed, submit your podcast to all like Spotify, everything like that, and then they list it on um to their servers, essentially. Get that first podcast live. Um, and I won't blank again.

[29:44] Eliza: Um we do this.

[29:48] Tori: Wow. Um, welcome to our world. So bad. I don't even feel bad because I know what you guys know what I'm going through, so I'm like, Oh, 100%. Um, it's so chill. It's just there's always so much happening in your brain when you when you're podcasting because someone will say something and you're like, oh, I wanna like I'll make sure I touch on that later. And then you're like, oh I've got no idea.

[30:09] Eliza: Um but you get that first episode live. Um, what was that kind of uh and then the issue is getting the episode out. How much did you guys worry about listeners in the first couple of months before you were like, cool, this isn't something we're gonna focus on anymore?

[30:26] Tori: Um yeah, well, exactly, exactly. Well, we... our first episode obviously... well now it's... it's okay because it's had time to sit and people go through your podcast and they listen to your first episode. So the first episode's got the most views. It's... it's honestly the best one. I think we were just excited to have anyone listen at first because we were like, Yeah, I think I saw like within like the first couple of days, it was like 15 listeners, and I was like, fifteen people have downloaded our podcast.

[30:56] Eliza: They're stopping.

[30:57] Tori: We were like so excited. My voice, what the hell? That's uh... Yeah. They care about what we have to say about theatre. Um but yeah, it has... it has over time evolved, obviously. Um, but more as you would know, some episodes are more successful than others. But you don't do the episodes for how successful they are because they can be really, really helpful to someone and it doesn't matter if there's only, you know, 50 people that listen to that episode, but they really get something out of it, so worth it compared to like getting more than that.

[31:32] Eliza: And you know, it's better, you know. I'm sure that you'd get more out of it, they would get more out of it. But um, yeah, it definitely is not a focus for us anymore. You know, it's definitely more about content, about our own passions, yeah, and doing what we love, really.

[31:48] Tori: Yeah, it definitely took a little while to get past that, especially when like you know, I think you know, we would have like one episode would be like 50 people listened, and then the next episode it would be, you know, by the time the next episode came out, there was heaps more listeners on that one, and then but also keeping in mind that exactly like it's about what you're talking about, and also we also learnt about true listenership.

[32:11] Eliza: Yes, you know, um, how many people at first were listening because they're friends, they're family members, so on and so forth, versus you know, as you continue on, you grow your true listenership. Like the people that are actually like our listeners, they're... they're listening every fortnight to your episode versus the family and friends that kind of just were listening to support you, and now they're kind of like, I'm not actually that interested in what you're talking about, but keep doing good.

[32:37] Tori: Um important thing to keep in mind. It was definitely something that we learned, but I think after you know, a few months of doing the podcast. I... I was personally someone that being a social media manager, I get really caught up on numbers sometimes.

[32:52] Eliza: I was the same, I was because it's... yeah, it's like it's part of the... it's part of the job as like a social media manager to like keep an eye on like the you know how much a post is being viewed and such because you need to know what's engaging to your audience. So it definitely... I remember having so many conversations with Eliza, and she was like, It's okay, it's gonna be okay.

[33:15] Tori: Yeah, I was like, but this episode was amazing, but then we would get people, you know, um reviewing the episode or sending us a message or tagging us in something, being like, Oh my god, this gave me so much insight, thank you so much. And it's like, oh, like that's what it is. That's what we do. That's what we do this for because it's a... like I've... like I always say, we're learning so much from this. So if nobody even listens, I don't really care anymore because I'm getting to talk to amazing people, and I'm getting to learn so much, you know, of an insight like Daisy Hicks, what a bloody legend. Learnt so much about the casting industry that we never would have known otherwise.

[33:46] Eliza: Yeah.

[33:52] Tori: That leads us into asking the question. So this is honestly probably the most daunting part of starting a podcast.

[33:59] Eliza: Yeah.

[33:59] Tori: Getting to that point where you want to ask people to come on. Um, obviously, we have all adapted ways to do that now that gets answers a little quicker than what we did originally. Um, so starting out, when you first started messaging to people, what did your messages look like?

[34:18] Eliza: They were really long.

[34:19] Tori: They were stupid. Very... I'm gonna pull out very long.

[34:24] Eliza: Oh, I wonder if we do have one.

[34:26] Tori: We talked a lot about COVID and a lot about...

[34:26] Eliza: Were you social media?

[34:31] Tori: Yeah, like did you reach out on social media or...

[34:31] Eliza: Yeah, we read anyone that we... anyone that we were friends with, I would Facebook message them. Um, because you know, in the theater industry, you have so many friends that you don't really often talk to, and then you're like, oh wow, you're doing really well. Let me just message you to see if you'll come on.

[34:51] Tori: Ours were very long messages. There was a lot about hi, like, we're a new Australian theatre podcast, such and such. Like, you are doing so well in such a hard time. The theater industry is being swept under the rug, and we want to shine a light. You've brought such a positive light to the industry. We would love to have you on, but it was very much I didn't ever want to be pushy about it, so I was always just like, if you would like to come on, feel free to let us know. If not, it's okay. But please, please come on the podcast.

[35:21] Eliza: And now you're um push, push, push, push.

[35:24] Tori: And now I'm just like, I try to keep things like short and simple because I think I do a lot of... but just because Eliza is so busy living her dream up in Queens and Con. Um, I'm constantly trying to just like simplify what we have to say and being like, look, you're currently doing this thing. Um, and like, and like it is for... I think a lot of artists in Australia, they have all had impact on us as performers, as creatives, as human beings. So just being honest about that, being like, hey, you... you are someone with a message that you want to send, or you're doing this initiative, you're doing this show. We want to be able to just amplify that voice a little bit more and share your story, which is such a big thing for us.

[36:16] Eliza: We want to share your story in theater because we've learned very quickly doing these like interviews, everybody has such different stories. Like, there are some people like Sarah Ma, who was just like, I have been dancing and singing since I was born, that's all I ever want to do. And other people like Georgina Hobson, who I believe did a master's in business first before becoming the powerhouse that she is. Everyone has their own story and journey, and I think it's so exciting to be able to share that.

[36:44] Tori: Yeah. So I think it comes down to reaching out, you need to be confident in what you're selling to people.

[36:52] Eliza: Yeah.

[36:52] Tori: Like, cool. This is who I am. This is what I want to do. Is that cool? Like, and then that is definitely...

[37:01] Eliza: Yeah.

[37:01] Tori: So sorry, I'm gonna mute myself for a second. My boss is uh calling me four times in a row now, so I feel like something's gone wrong. So I will continue... continue talking. I'm just gonna mute myself so I don't...

[37:13] Eliza: Yeah. So like reaching out and just being like, yo, this is who we are, this is what we do. Um come on and have a chat.

[37:22] Tori: 100%. And for us, we actually have evolved how we reach out over time. So for some people, especially performers, we do reach out via Instagram, which tends to be quite successful most of the time because you can go into seeing who they are and they can see who you are, and so that is quite a successful way to do it.

[37:43] Eliza: But we actually have evolved that over time to reaching out to uh companies. So we... we reached out to like Come From Away and we reached out to Hamilton, like we've reached out to different bigger shows, which then their PR team kind of contacts you with some more exciting things to do, or they'll be like, Hey, we have this. Would you... would that be something you're interested in? So I think that... and that's been something very exciting over time because we are complete, complete, complete theater nerds ourselves. So um, you know, getting the opportunity to talk to some people from these bigger shows is definitely a privilege that we are very grateful for.

[38:21] Tori: So that is it evolves over time. And if you're doing a theater podcast or another type of podcast, you can it's very similar in that way. So email is actually a great way to do it, but also having that website is helpful when you email because they need to be able to see what you're about.

[38:39] Eliza: Exactly.

[38:40] Tori: Now that Tori's back, we're gonna jump into contacting publicity teams. Um big thing that I have learned in the last six months. Oh my word. Um I am really lucky um because of BPN. I like can be like, hey, I'm signed to this network, and they just go look at the network and they're like, I feel like that just kind of fast tracks. But looking at a public how first of all, finding who to contact, because for all of you starting out, you can't just be like, Cool, I want to chat to Courtney Monsma, who's playing Anna in Frozen. Come on my show. She's gonna be like, hi, publicity, can I do this? Publicity's gonna be like no.

[39:21] Eliza: Yeah, if you go to publicity and be like, hey, this is who I am, this is what I do, this is why I want these people on. Can I work with you? They're gonna work with you more often. Um, so finding addresses, how did you first go about finding publicity teams?

[39:39] Tori: This is definitely figuring out how to contact them. Definitely a Tory question.

[39:44] Eliza: Yeah, definitely question. When we decided to take that step, I would say it took me a long time. Like I got like the emails prepared, and I was so scared to send them. Um draft now that I'm like copy paste change, yep, cool, I'm good.

[40:00] Tori: Yeah, no, that's exactly that's exactly how we do it now. Um, but it was definitely some were super easy to find. Uh some were not.

[40:09] Eliza: Um what one did you struggle with?

[40:11] Tori: Let's see if it was the same one. Um, I think I struggled actually with Frozen. Frozen was like because Frozen's like Disney, but then it's like Disney theatrical, and then like it's with the Frozen. We were kind of a little bit lucky that we actually had contacted this. This was like kind of about the same time that we had started contacting publicity teams. We had actually separately contacted Sam Hagen about doing an interview. And then she directed us. She was like, I would love to, but we have to do it through this channel. Which so that was actually ended up being easier. Because I remember looking at Frozen because I was like, Frozen would be a great one. It's like one of the first shows at like full capacity. Um could not find it anywhere. So we were kind of uh pretty lucky that Sam was then like, great, here's like the direction you need to go to do that.

[40:57] Eliza: Um I think Frozen was the hardest, because yeah, it's Disney and Disney, there are so many different places. I think the first one that we got a response from was Come From Away, if I'm correct. Um, and but that even that was like I had contacted the Sydney publicity team who then redirected me to um a different person who directed me to the Melbourne publicity team, and it was like this never-ending chain of um trying to figure out who I was talking to. But along the way, it's then meant that like so. I think Come From Away was our first one, and that was they were about to reopen in Melbourne um after having like nine months off. Um, but it's very much yeah, you do you can't ask, uh at least I found we don't ask for anyone specific.

We just say, look, this, you know, especially for something like Come From Away. This is a a a really important story, especially right now, and it's it that show can take on a really different meaning now considering excuse me, COVID and everything that we've kind of gone through. Um, so I just I just honesty. Yeah. We're we're a small Australian podcast talking about theatre. We would really love to talk to one of your cast members about their journey, not only with the show, but through COVID, sticking with you throughout it all and reopening in Melbourne.

[42:27] Tori: Um we've definitely had better like I don't think we've ever had negative responses. Come From Away were so generous. They like just like they blended. Beautiful. Shout out to Beautiful because you guys are sick.

[42:41] Eliza: Yeah.

[42:42] Tori: But they were just like so giving and like got back to us. I think when I spoke when I emailed originally for the Sydney publicity team, they got back to me straight away being like, hey, actually, you need to contact such and such. And then through that, we then also got in contact with I believe it's Kabuki Publicity who did Fangirls. Um and we were able to chat to them about that. Unfortunately, that one didn't work out. But the way how understanding they are, sometimes timing just doesn't work.

[43:14] Eliza: Yeah.

[43:15] Tori: Because obviously, you both have an agenda, you both have a reason for wanting to do this. It's not a one-way street. You're not doing them a favor, they're not doing you a favor. It's it works both ways. Um, and also understanding that that there are sometimes timelines that they need to keep up with.

[43:30] Eliza: 100%.

[43:30] Tori: And if and if you can't fit into that timeline, hopefully next time. And we've done other stuff with the publicity team for Come From Away. We've done Sean the Sheep, the circus musical through them because they just reached out and they were like, Hey, we know that you just um released your episode with Emma Powell. Would you be interested in chatting with Ben Napton from um Sean the Sheep? And we're like, of yes, that question.

[43:56] Eliza: Um But uh I think it's just yeah, it it is scary but we did have developed like a draft of what we write and then altering it obviously because we do want to still make it personalized. We don't want it to just be you know everybody gets the same email every time um but there is certain information that is important that just always needs to be in there.

[44:17] Tori: Yeah it's definitely yeah and find you know you know Tory's a sleuth you just kind of go in and and research send emails to some people they'll redirect you to the right places and then you'll eventually get the hang of it I feel like and also don't be offended if someone does not get back to you because these are very very busy people with lots to do like and also I think Come From Away originally when we spoke to them they said great we're opening next week give us a couple of weeks and I had this moment after like two weeks where I was like do I email them back do I leave it I'm not super sure um and they actually ended up emailing us back whereas other people we've had to chase up about it.

[45:01] Eliza: When you get you kind of figure out after a certain point of time okay cool I need this is now I now need to chase this up otherwise it just yeah they do have so much going on. That's what you gotta remember is that they're literally running marketing for a show. So like they're busy all the time.

[45:17] Tori: Yeah yes but yeah so that's pretty much guys how to start a podcast in 20 minutes um record it reach out and uh don't cry the longest version of a podcast ever. Um but yeah, also ask people, like even if you don't want them as guests, just reach out and be like, hey, who do I need to contact for this? Like, I think that's something I figured out. Cool. I I want to get you on my show. Who do I need to contact? Like, I know I can't talk to you. How do I do I talk to?

[45:53] Eliza: That's a big thing.

[45:54] Tori: Um, the future of your show. What have you guys got upcoming? What do you guys want to work on? Is there any shows that you like wish you could be like manifest episodes for?

[46:05] Eliza: Oh yes, so many. Every every show. There are so there are so many amazing shows coming to coming into Australia over the next like you know, Jagged Little Pill is just being announced. Like a lot of Sorrison, just just saying, because obviously she'll be in Sydney at the same time.

[46:25] Tori: No.

[46:26] Eliza: I saw it on Broadway. It is an absolute banger.

[46:29] Tori: I'm so freaking excited. I'm like, I've listened to the you know, I grew up with Alanis Morissette, so I'm kind of like, I'll just enjoy it just for her music anyway.

[46:40] Eliza: Um, but I think you know, we'd love to chat with I can because I can see it in the background, Head Over Heels at the Haze, um Cry Baby at the Opera House, Phantom of the Opera, um

[46:40] Tori: Oh yeah, Phantom.

[46:57] Eliza: Oh my another show that everybody needs to see because that show I saw it three times in one trip just because I'm like spending money on this show. I don't care.

[47:06] Tori: Yeah.

[47:07] Eliza: Like fantastic show. Oh, I'm so excited for that.

[47:11] Tori: And uh if that doesn't sell you, come on everyone. We're all gonna go see to go see Rule Raw and Runge now. Let's go.

[47:18] Eliza: Yeah, come on, come on.

[47:19] Tori: And I think like we've got Hamilton in the works. That's definitely a much longer process because it's such a huge show.

[47:26] Eliza: Yeah, and that's like I've got Hamilton in the works as well. Like, you'll get semi-yeses from people contacting.

[47:33] Tori: Exactly. We're keen, we'll get back to you with details. And I'm like, Yes. Cool. Is that yes? Will it happen? We're gonna put you on a list.

[47:43] Eliza: Yeah, exactly. Won't it happen?

[47:46] Tori: But I guess for the net what's next for us, we excitingly are gonna come out with a new, I'm not sure when this is coming out this episode for you, but we are starting a kind of a revamp of our deep dives, which we're gonna bring another person on board just for those episodes. Uh and we recorded our first one the other day and it went great.

[48:09] Eliza: So we are starting to, you know, bring some oldies back, but kind of rework them a little.

[48:14] Tori: Uh we are excited to just talk to some more people. We're in the process now of deciding kind of our next round of what we would like to put out for the podcast, because it kind of goes in waves, uh, especially with me at uni.

[48:28] Eliza: So I'm studying music theater right now, so it can be a little bit tricky to kind of fit everything in.

[48:35] Tori: So we're definitely right now at the process of figuring out what's next because we just did Suddenly, and we've got a couple of people we're reaching out to right now, and we'll see what happens.

[48:46] Eliza: And I think it's I think it's okay as well to say that our third person for our deep dives, who's also gonna be reviewing um shows with me, um, because we have actually started to be asked to review shows, which is super exciting and something that I've always wanted to do.

[49:01] Tori: So to have people reaching out to do that is exciting.

[49:04] Eliza: But that that third person is going to be um uh Gareth Isaac, um, the hilarious, hilarious Gareth Isaac, who, if you don't know, um has done productions such as Puffs. He was the narrator in Puffs for both Melbourne and Sydney. He's a very tall, lanky, hilarious fella.

[49:24] Tori: And we did. We just recorded our first episode of our uh next deep dive. And that what a time. What a time that was. We didn't even we didn't even get to the plot of the show in that deep dive because there was so much else to talk about.

[49:39] Eliza: Um we just want to, yeah, I think branch out, get more people on. And I think we also want to have more variety with the people that we have on. Like we're trying to reach out to more artistic directors, directors, um, set design, costume design, production side of things, as well as actors, because you know, we do have people that listen in that also are interested in the back of house side of things, which and it's also so interesting to learn about that other side of things being like a director or an artistic director.

[50:08] Tori: It's super exciting.

[50:10] Eliza: Yeah, exactly. So much going on.

[50:12] Josh Mitchell: Um girls, that's about this episode up, though. On that note right there. Um thank you guys so much for coming and joining me. Uh, if you guys want to follow um Tori and Eliza at all, uh PS.stagedor on Instagram. You can click their link tree from there and click every other link from that point. So just search that on Instagram and you'll find it. Pipe up the Stage Door podcast on Spotify, hit play, listen to their episodes. Um, and I'm sure we're gonna work together in the future. We're gonna make it happen. We're gonna manifest something.

[50:45] Tori: Oh yeah.

[50:45] Josh Mitchell: Um, but yeah, guys, that is gonna wrap us up for another episode here on We Are Theatre, and we will be back next week with a brand new episode. See you later.

[50:52] Eliza: Bye.

[50:53] Tori: Bye.

[50:55] Josh Mitchell: Bye.