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[0:00] Josh Mitchell: In the spirit of reconciliation, we are theatre acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community.

[0:08] Josh Mitchell: We pay our respect to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today.

[0:24] Josh Mitchell: Hello, theatre fans one and all.

[0:27] Josh Mitchell: Welcome back to the We Are Theatre Podcast.

[0:29] Josh Mitchell: We're hitting episode number two for 2023.

[0:32] Josh Mitchell: We're recording it in 2022, but we're gonna time jump a little bit.

[0:36] Josh Mitchell: I'm here with Samm Hagen.

[0:37] Samm Hagen: Hey, Josh.

[0:38] Josh Mitchell: How are you going?

[0:39] Samm Hagen: I'm good, how are you?

[0:40] Josh Mitchell: I am fabulous.

[0:41] Josh Mitchell: We were just talking off camera about how Samm was in the first show that I kind of got into theatre on.

[0:48] Josh Mitchell: So that whole cast is the reason I'm here today doing what I do.

[0:52] Josh Mitchell: Um, so yeah, thanks for that, I guess.

[0:55] Samm Hagen: That's all right.

[0:56] Samm Hagen: My perspective.

[0:57] Samm Hagen: Thanks to the people who cast me, I guess.

[1:00] Josh Mitchell: Um, let's talk about how you got into theatre.

[1:03] Josh Mitchell: Where did you start?

[1:05] Josh Mitchell: What was the bug that you caught that was like, hey, this is what I want to do?

[1:09] Samm Hagen: Um, I feel like there was kind of two.

[1:12] Samm Hagen: There was the one that you got as a kid that you were like, oh, I'd love to do this, and then you have one when you're a little bit older and you're like, oh no, I actually want to do this.

[1:19] Samm Hagen: So like every child, I saw um the production of Annie that was going around and I was I think I was just about to turn eight and I'd always sung around the house and always sort of like danced around.

[1:31] Samm Hagen: Not well, couldn't dance well, but always, you know, strong mover in my house.

[1:36] Samm Hagen: Um and then I went to go and see Annie.

[1:40] Samm Hagen: Um and I remember just sort of getting halfway through the show and just turning to my parents and just going that, I want to do that.

[1:49] Samm Hagen: Um, and then you know, that obviously kids aren't allowed to do eight shows a week, and so they have different teams of um kids.

[1:55] Samm Hagen: And so the like the team of orphans that I saw, like 90% of them went to um this really teeny tiny dance school called Brent Street Studios.

[2:04] Samm Hagen: Um, and I turned around to my parents and was like, there, I want to go there, and they were like, Oh, we created a monster.

[2:11] Samm Hagen: Um so luckily it wasn't too far away from us, and and I hadn't really picked an extracurricular at that point.

[2:17] Samm Hagen: So then I started doing those classes there.

[2:19] Samm Hagen: And then when I was probably just before I turned 12, um, it was with Brent Street.

[2:24] Samm Hagen: We kind of went on one of those like USA dance tour things, and like we performed on a cruise ship and you know, did a whole bunch of stuff.

[2:30] Samm Hagen: But we went sort of via New York to do some dance classes, and we all got to pick one show that we wanted to see.

[2:38] Samm Hagen: Uh, and that show was Wicked.

[2:40] Samm Hagen: And I remember watching The Wizard and I.

[2:44] Samm Hagen: I had Julia Murney as my alphabet, which I mean, come on.

[2:48] Samm Hagen: Um, and I remember just I was bawling my eyes out because I just was like, oh my god, like I could play roles like this and get to do big productions like this if I was lucky enough and if I work hard enough, and I just turned to my parents and I was like, the same thing of like that, I want to do that, but like in tears, just being like, Can I do this?

[3:09] Samm Hagen: Like, I want to make this work, and then it was just from then on, it was just every part of my training was just cool.

[3:16] Samm Hagen: What do I do?

[3:17] Samm Hagen: And how hard do I have to work to get into musical theater?

[3:21] Samm Hagen: Which it turns out extremely hard, but um, but we got there.

[3:24] Samm Hagen: I was really um incredibly lucky that it kind of panned out, I guess.

[3:29] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, if we look at that, I want to do that phase, and then look at where you've just come from after finishing up a national tour as the understudy for Elsa.

[3:38] Samm Hagen: Yeah.

[3:38] Josh Mitchell: How does that sit for you right now?

[3:41] Samm Hagen: Like looking at like it's it's it's crazy to me.

[3:44] Samm Hagen: I think that you know getting into our industry and booking shows in itself is really difficult, but to be like a theatre kid at heart and getting to do it is the whole other beast, I think.

[3:58] Samm Hagen: Um and I just I've always particularly as I've gotten older, but I have always gravitated towards um the more difficult roles, whether they are vocally more difficult or um, you know, they're a bit of a strained human being.

[4:11] Samm Hagen: Um, and every time I got to do Elsa, it was just like I mean, the the best part is that the end of act one is just her living her best life, and and yes, there's logistics to it, but I remember walking down the dress reveal would happen, and I would walk down this like the stairs, and I'd be like, You're doing it.

[4:28] Samm Hagen: Like it was the one moment I gave myself if I was having a great day where I would let myself sort of just not be Elsa.

[4:35] Samm Hagen: I kind of would combine Sam and Elsa became one entity sometimes, and they'd just be like, ah, which was really hard because you had to think about your placement of that note because it's really difficult because you can't hear yourself, sort of like slip out sometimes.

[4:49] Samm Hagen: I was like, Oh, oh, come on, come on, come back.

[4:52] Samm Hagen: But constantly, I constantly um, even running around in my ensemble track, getting to come through the gates of Arendelle and sing all of those harmonies.

[4:59] Samm Hagen: I just remember some days just being like, Okay, it's the kids, the kids like not coping with this is what I get to do.

[5:06] Samm Hagen: It's very it's very cool.

[5:08] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, like four national tours under the belt plus a couple of other pretty big shows, like you're killing it.

[5:15] Samm Hagen: It's it's so it's so weird.

[5:17] Samm Hagen: I think um, you know, particularly now that I like I just turned 30, which woo-hoo, happy to be in the 30 club.

[5:22] Samm Hagen: Um, and just like all of a sudden, the first couple of things that I've done are starting to roll around to like, oh, it's the 10th anniversary of this show, and like it's about to be um like early next year, the 10th anniversary of King Kong.

[5:37] Samm Hagen: And I just was like, how?

[5:40] Samm Hagen: How did that happen 10 years ago?

[5:42] Samm Hagen: So like I think my like my sense of time is a bit warped and a bit blurred because things that I did last year feel like seven years ago, and then I could, you know, turn around and do Rock of Ages for you right now, even though I haven't done it in like almost 12 years now, you know.

[5:57] Samm Hagen: Like it's just it's very strange.

[5:59] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[6:00] Josh Mitchell: Um looking at like moments like right now between contracts, how do you go from being on the road for months at a time to kind of having your own space and being able to do your own thing?

[6:13] Josh Mitchell: What's your process of kind of settling back into life, getting prepped to potentially go back out on the road again?

[6:18] Samm Hagen: Um, I think look, I think it's different off the back of every job that I do because some of them are the tours are longer than others, some of them are really short and sweet, where you kind of don't get to the end and feel like you've been with the show long enough.

[6:32] Samm Hagen: So there's sort of a like it sounds so dramatic, but there's like a weird grieving process.

[6:37] Samm Hagen: Not everybody gets it.

[6:38] Samm Hagen: Some people are like, see ya, and then just leave and they're totally fine.

[6:41] Samm Hagen: I really wish I was one of those people.

[6:43] Samm Hagen: Um but I think, you know, when I was doing some shorter tours like um Ghost and I mean look, Kinky Boots was basically 12 months from opening to closing, quite literally we opened and closed on the same date.

[6:54] Samm Hagen: Um and even after that one, I just was like, oh, I still feel like there was more to explore, I think.

[7:01] Samm Hagen: Anyway, so like I feel like if you're sort of not you didn't get to do the full circle with a show, sometimes I just need to like disappear for a little bit and just be like a little bit of a blob and just sort of like become one with my couch.

[7:14] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[7:15] Samm Hagen: Um, and I mean in the last couple of years, I guess as I've gotten older and I am sort of you know wanting to have this crazy concept of work life balance.

[7:26] Samm Hagen: Um sort of I can now come home and I'm on tour getting much better at sort of resetting at the beginning of every week.

[7:34] Samm Hagen: So when I come home, I'm not like stumbling and just being like, I need my dad.

[7:38] Samm Hagen: Um so I mean this time around with Frozen, I basically came home and just gave myself a week to kind of decompress and you know, just defrost in a weird way.

[7:51] Samm Hagen: Um and then um uh during the pandemic, I was doing it before the pandemic, but it kind of became a proper thing was um I started doing voice teaching and like performance coaching and stuff like that.

[8:02] Samm Hagen: So that's something I couldn't do when I was on tour.

[8:05] Samm Hagen: So this time around I gave myself a week just to be like, ha, and then immediately I was like, okay, great, now I can get back online with my students and I can start teaching people and I can see people again because you know there are some people I couldn't work out with my schedule.

[8:16] Samm Hagen: It's the a fine balance between being an understudy and also trying to, you know, run a kind of business on the side.

[8:24] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, and I never got myself to the point where I couldn't do an Elsa with my workload of lessons and things like that, but it did mean that there were a lot of people I couldn't see for six months because I was like, hey, I can only do eight lessons a week, that's all I can do.

[8:37] Samm Hagen: Um so this time I just sort of came home and and um ate a lot of nice food and just didn't go to the gym, and then sort of uh a week after that, I was back into it, and then, you know, also during that week it was like audition season in in Melbourne and Sydney, so it was just I needed to just do nothing for the week.

[8:55] Samm Hagen: Um, I think a lot of the time, um, I my body get you get sick.

[9:02] Samm Hagen: It's just kind of what happens.

[9:03] Samm Hagen: It's like it realizes it's at the end, and your body just goes, Are we done?

[9:07] Samm Hagen: Oh my god, and then you just kind of fall apart.

[9:09] Josh Mitchell: Is everything we've been holding back for the last time?

[9:11] Samm Hagen: Oh my gosh, yes, because when you get to the end of a contract, your body knows like it's so frustrating when you're just trying to get through to the end of a contract unscathed, and then all of a sudden it's like your body's like, you know that super flu that's going around, you're gonna get it a week before you finish.

[9:26] Samm Hagen: And it's I luckily, luckily sort of kept it off.

[9:29] Samm Hagen: My very last day at Frozen, I was starting to be like, oh, I'm getting something's going on, and then I like hit my couch, and it was just like that super flu hit me like a ton of bricks, and then I just you know, lay with that.

[9:40] Samm Hagen: There's nothing you can really do, and then it was like, okay, well, auditions off we go, and then I kind of just went back to being a normal human being.

[9:49] Samm Hagen: Coming out of um yeah, wow, put on a costume and now hey, we're back.

[9:55] Samm Hagen: This is who we are.

[9:56] Samm Hagen: And I mean, also like I think this is gonna be interesting.

[9:59] Samm Hagen: I'd never had this long of a break in between seasons because I am going to Singapore with Frozen for six weeks, which is woo-hoo.

[10:06] Samm Hagen: Um, but all of the costumes in that show are super heavy, like the heaviest costume that I wear.

[10:12] Samm Hagen: Um, I'd like to say it's the Elsa costumes, it's not.

[10:15] Samm Hagen: There's an ensemble costume.

[10:16] Samm Hagen: My opening dress weighs somewhere around like 4.7, 4.8 kilos, and then we wear these white coats over the top that are like five kilos plus.

[10:23] Samm Hagen: So if you've anyone's seen the show, the bit where we're sort of like being like a moody dance storm in the background, we're carrying around like 11 kilos.

[10:31] Samm Hagen: So I have to find this.

[10:33] Samm Hagen: I'm gonna have to find a way to sort of keep up the show training while also not being too connected to the show because I want to have a break, but I was like, I need to be able to pick 11 kilos off the ground really easily.

[10:45] Samm Hagen: So I've gotta try and navigate, you know, continuing the strength training and stuff like that, but also not overworking myself and making sure I am getting a rest.

[10:53] Samm Hagen: It's gonna be, you know, but we're still figuring that out.

[10:59] Josh Mitchell: That just hurt my brain trying to figure out how you're gonna do it.

[11:01] Josh Mitchell: So good luck.

[11:03] Samm Hagen: It's quite going uh back to like being on the road.

[11:07] Josh Mitchell: Do you have kind of moving cities and things like that?

[11:10] Josh Mitchell: Do you have kind of rituals or things that you have now to kind of settle yourself into cities as you kind of move around, like to feel like home, I guess?

[11:21] Samm Hagen: Yeah, yes and no.

[11:22] Samm Hagen: I think my body realizes that if I'm not with my partner and my cat, I'm not at home.

[11:27] Samm Hagen: I'm very much on tour.

[11:28] Samm Hagen: Um, but I kind of am quite a smell-oriented person.

[11:32] Samm Hagen: I know that sounds so weird, but I have a little diffuser that goes everywhere with me, and I kind of have like a smell for the bedroom and have like a smell for the living area.

[11:40] Samm Hagen: So I kind of set it up so it kind of smells the same, which sounds very weird.

[11:45] Samm Hagen: Also, diffuser is good for hydration, so you know, hashtag GoCool Health.

[11:49] Samm Hagen: Um, and then I I have like one or two photos that I kind of have in frames that I bring that I'll put in the house or the bedroom.

[11:56] Samm Hagen: Um, and I just you know, bring on my skincare.

[11:59] Samm Hagen: I try and bring as much normal stuff as I can in in one suitcase.

[12:04] Samm Hagen: Um, and then I a lot of my stuff lives at work, honestly.

[12:08] Samm Hagen: So it's more that my work desk is set up to seem like normalcy, because I think when you are an understudy or a swing and you're in the building constantly rehearsing, you kind of end up spending more time in the building than outside of the building.

[12:21] Josh Mitchell: Yeah.

[12:33] Samm Hagen: And so I kind of like to set my desk up with I have five or six photos, which I put up in every single city. I have all of the lozenges and all of the syrups and all the things. I got a little, I bring a little coffee machine with me. And then I think it's just, I guess, coming up with as a sense of normalcy when it comes to routine as quickly as possible. So, you know, for Frozen in particular, and it's kind of just gonna, I guess, continue on through whatever show comes next for me. Um, I had to do strength training because I, as I said before, costumes are really heavy. So it's pretty much like immediately figuring out, okay, where can I go to the gym? Where can I go and do this? Where can I go and find some Pilates classes?

Is there a vocal coach in the area that I haven't seen to sort of like set myself up with my normal schedule just in a different place? Because I find that if I get up at the same time every day and I do this thing and then I go here and I go there, it feels a bit more normal to me.

[13:30] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, cool. Um looking at shows specifically, do you have a routine that you have prior to walking on stage that you kind of hit every night just to get into the swing of things?

[13:42] Samm Hagen: Yeah, I think uh, which hilarious, so they're in front of my desk. I if I don't have one of these before I go on stage, it's like my entire life flashes before my eyes. Um they're just like a little licorice like lozenge, and they don't have any menthol or propolis in it. So it's just like it feels quite nice. Um, ensemble-wise, I kind of just in the dressing room, like right before we get the five minute call, and I go and put my wig on, I do like a little note check just to sort of like give it a quick little stretch because you want the hour before you go on stage. And my track anyway, I'm on the alto line in Frozen, which is not an alto line. I just want to point out I'm still having to belt like an E flat in the alto line.

Um, so I just make sure I kind of got a little bit of vocal stretching, and then I go and fill up my water bottle. Ensemble-wise, it's sort of I feel better as a pre-show routine to like check in with my castmates and sort of say hi to everybody and um you know visit a few people. Um, but for Elsa, it was like I had my warm-up and then I did this and I put the wig on. And the only thing I really did was um she sets behind the doors of her bedroom, and as Anna starts to sing um the slow bit, and um I would just stand behind it. Something I've always done, and I I couldn't tell you how it started or why it started, but I literally just put my hands on my chest and close my eyes, and I do three really deep inhales and exhales, and I kind of inhale something good and exhale something stressful and/or bad.

So if I'm having a bit of a um, you know, I can feel that my neck's a bit gross, I can kind of go, you know, like inhale health, exhale injury, um, you know, inhale positivity, exhale negativity, and I kind of just give myself three breaths, and then the second that I go open my eyes, I'm like, okay, let's go. And then I put my hands down, and then the walls come up, and that's that's kind of it.

[15:27] Josh Mitchell: That's sick. I love that. Um, let's look at kind of putting things into the universe. Um, if there was one show that you wish could come to Australia next week, what would it be that you could be a part of that casting?

[15:44] Samm Hagen: I think um I don't know. This is a hard one to answer because I feel like deep down I want it to be something new. I want it to be something that hasn't even been created yet that I can't even see that I would get to be a part of and create a character from scratch. Yeah. Um and sort of be a part of that process. I've done some smaller, like new musical works and been a part of some workshops and building characters and singing brand new songs, and it was like very, very cool. Um the one that I'm like, they keep hinting that it's coming and it keeps not coming is Bombshell. I would love to do that. Um and as soon as I um, you know, everyone heard Let Me Be Your Star and was like, oh my god. So I feel like that's always been one because it's kind of had this mystery around it about whether it was actually going to be turned into a Broadway musical or whether they were just wanna keep the show and do like concerts and stuff.

And then I think it was like last year when we were all in lockdown and and they kind of announced that they were turning Bombshell into a musical and they were doing like a workshop and stuff like that. I just was like, oh, that would be so fun. Yeah, I'd love to be Marilyn. That would be amazing.

[16:58] Josh Mitchell: Um speaking of COVID, what was that like for you? And what was your kind of internal turmoil that we all went through with it sucked.

[17:07] Samm Hagen: It was it sucked. Like there's no other way to describe it. I think I on days I think I was much better than other people, and then I on other days everyone had their bad ones. But I think there was this I got a little bit consumed by this weird guilt that I still had a job. And I know that sounds like the silliest thing in the world, but particularly in that um the big first lockdown, they just kind of delayed Frozen and they were like, hang tight. Like, like you know, there were a few of us that they were like, we know that you need to kind of keep the vocals up, so we'll organise some lessons for you, and like Disney was kind of incredible to be like, We're not, we're not standing you down, we're not cancelling your contracts, we're just pushing it back.

And I remember just watching so many of my friends being like, they've cancelled the run of the show, or they've cancelled our contracts, this is gone, this is gone, this is gone, and so many things just didn't make it back. And I remember being in lockdown, not the first one, the second one more when we were in Melbourne, like we quite literally opened, and then we did one show the next day, and then we were out for like four almost four and a half months. And I remember it felt weird knowing that like I had no idea if we were gonna get back to work. At this point, we'd already been stood down and we'd already had lots of COVID setbacks, so we were like, is this the final one? Are they just gonna call it one day and say you're out?

But I remember just feeling bad that I I had work, and I think that like in retrospect, I'm like, what you're an idiot. Like, don't why are you why are you feeling? I understand why I felt bad about that, but like I don't think it was really on me to feel guilty, but I think because everybody was stuck in their houses and couldn't really escape it, everyone's minds got all twisted, and you kind of started thinking things that you've never thought before, and I just remember being like, I feel so bad, and you know, I immediately was like, Yes, government, I will go and take those 20 therapy sessions off of the people during COVID, which was really super helpful. Yeah, um, and I I had a friend, luckily, who kind of moved into my 5k during that time, and so I ended up having someone around, but um, I I think it was just like an in an impending sense of doom.

And I remember thinking that, and I still think we're seeing it now. I remember just going, God, this is gonna break theatre for a while because I just went producers, obviously, are not making any money because no one's buying tickets or they're having to refund tickets, which means that they're either not gonna bring shows here because people overseas are gonna be like, well, what's the point if they're gonna keep locking down? Yes. Um, and then you know, when shows do start back up, it's gonna be the same thing of nobody has any money, which means that people are gonna re-sign these jobs or sign on for new contracts, and the producers are gonna have to turn around and say, we literally can't afford to pay you more than minimum wage.

Yeah. And I was like, well, then we're gonna start seeing performers, you know, like they do on Broadway and the West End, where they're gonna everyone's gonna have to get second jobs because we're not being paid enough money. And I just sort of I remember watching Spiral, and there are still some shows that you know have been cast recently. Um, and they're just like, yeah, I'm getting paid like two-thirds of what I was getting paid before, but I want to work and I need to make money, and so I was just worried about this cycle kind of continuing. And it seems to be shows that have been cast in the last couple of months, not so bad, because I think they understand that it's coming back, but I remember just being like, oh, this is gonna be a it was a massive setback, and it's still affecting shows now, which sucks. It sucks. We're getting there.

[20:46] Samm Hagen: On a happier note, um, I just got really emotional thinking about it myself because I was the first night that you guys came back after COVID.

[20:55] Josh Mitchell: Oh my gosh.

[20:56] Samm Hagen: That was that was not I'm like crying, thinking about this guy as well. We so were we. Like, like I remember we came through the like we the show started, and I think maybe I want to say like 50 or 60% of the people that were in the audience were people who had specifically bought tickets for this performance, knowing it was the first one. And then there was a good chunk of people that just had their tickets relocated, and we're like, cool, we're going on this day. And probably would have been looking around audience members being like, I hate crying. It's just that I remember so vividly, like it only happened probably on maybe an opening night, but kind of happened on all of our closing nights in cities where all of the all the theater fans would come to watch, as the little uh young Anna and young Elsa would finish singing their song and the wall would come up and reveal the ensemble.

And I remember the wall coming up, and they maybe saw about this much of our dresses, and immediately everyone was applauding and screaming, and we all tried to sing, and I remember I remember hearing my castmate Jamie Lee behind me just go, nahi. And we all were just going, once there was a family, because we were so moved that not only were we back at work, but everybody needed to see the show again. And then the same thing happened when we all came through the gates. Like I remember musical director the next day was like, Yeah, I know you're all really emotional, but like, let's maybe just try and get some notes out next time. My whole row like grabbed each other as soon as we heard that first note.

We all like gra we were all sobbing. Yeah, and even in the overture, because the men start, and it's this big nay uh you hear that, and everyone was like from the front, and that rarely happens because over it's only people who know the show know what's happening, and so people were like in anticipation we're already applauding, and we were like, Oh, this is gonna be hard. And I remember even, you know, we do our ensemble bowels and we turn around and Courtney and Jem meet in the middle and sort of walk down and do their bows as Elsa and Anna. And I remember so vividly just the two of them like looking at each other, just being like, Thank God we're back. And I saw both of them at the same time get like really teary, and I just they just did their bows, and you know, because we all hold each other's hands and we're all really close.

I remember, you know, we did our bow and the curtain went down, and the second the curtain hit the deck, we all just kept dancing, but we were all crying at the same time. It was like the strangest sensation. But I it's one of those things that you're like, I don't think that's really ever gonna happen again. It was insane. And it would you just had to be like trying to explain it to people who weren't in that building that night, like yeah, you just and people can imagine it to a certain extent, and then you're just like it just there was even the buzz like in the foyer, everyone was like, it's back, like we're back, like as theater fans, everyone was like, it's back, and like you just it was yeah. I mean, waiting 120 days to do something, you were just like, come on, let's go! Like, we're all ready.

[24:03] Josh Mitchell: Um, Sam, that pretty much brings us to the end. We're gonna end on a really happy note there.

[24:09] Samm Hagen: Yeah, happy emotional.

[24:11] Josh Mitchell: Um, yeah, I think I I don't my brain's just gone blank, so we're gonna wrap it up there.

[24:17] Samm Hagen: Yeah, right.

[24:18] Josh Mitchell: That is, guys, welcome back. We're stumbling through the first couple episodes, but we're back. Um, thank you so much for coming on, Sam. I appreciate you, and I cannot wait to see you in whatever you do next.

[24:30] Samm Hagen: Um, as always, I will be there.

[24:32] Josh Mitchell: Um, but yeah, guys, we will be back next fortnight with a brand new episode of the We Are Theatre Podcast. Bye.