This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:12] Josh Mitchell: Hello, theatre fans one and all.

[0:14] Josh Mitchell: Welcome back to the We Are Theatre Podcast.

[0:16] Josh Mitchell: Today we are talking about a musical that you can catch online right now, and that is I Wish My Life Were Like a Musical.

[0:23] Josh Mitchell: And today we are joined by pretty much the head creative of the show, the composer, lyricist, musical director, co-arranger, pianist, Alexander.

[0:30] Alexander Bermange: Hello, how are you?

[0:32] Josh Mitchell: I'm good, thank you. How are you, Josh?

[0:34] Alexander Bermange: Lovely to be with you today.

[0:35] Josh Mitchell: I'm so excited to have you here. I've been watching the tutorial for this show on repeat, and I am about to jump in and stream it after we finish here.

[0:44] Josh Mitchell: Um so people at home understand what we're talking about. Do you want to give us a quick insight into what this show is?

[0:53] Alexander Bermange: Sure.

[0:54] Alexander Bermange: Um I Wish My Life Were Like a Musical is essentially a comedic musical review that sets up to reveal the secrets of musical theatre.

[1:06] Alexander Bermange: Um essentially that means that it's lifting the lid on everything you could want to know about being a musical theatre performer.

[1:16] Alexander Bermange: Um, if only there were any who would admit it.

[1:19] Alexander Bermange: So we try to cover the journey from a wide-eyed drama student all the way through to a bratish diva.

[1:30] Alexander Bermange: Um and taking in the essential landmarks in a typical performer's life along the way, from the auditioning to the exhausting dance routines to the understudying to the on-stage kisses with the co-stars who you may not get on with, to the pre-performance rituals, really giving a 360-degree look at the lives of the people that theatre goers will spend two hours in the evening or indeed the afternoon being entertained by, but may not give us second thought to from the moment the curtain falls.

[2:13] Alexander Bermange: We want to take a little bit of a peek behind that curtain and expose the sides of the business that uh people don't tend to know about or talk about.

[2:24] Josh Mitchell: So, in other words, for all my listeners at home, Alexander's written a musical about what I do as a podcaster here on this show.

[2:32] Alexander Bermange: Oh, yes.

[2:33] Josh Mitchell: So, like it's essentially all my podcasts combined into a little show.

[2:37] Alexander Bermange: That's fantastic.

[2:38] Alexander Bermange: That is such a cool idea, and I absolutely love that.

[2:42] Josh Mitchell: Um where did this idea of this spur from? Where did it come from?

[2:48] Alexander Bermange: Well, it was really the result of numerous uh impulses and impetuses coming together at round about the same time.

[2:59] Alexander Bermange: Um, one was the fact that although I've written musicals and songs and music for the stage in the past, and I've written a lot of comic songs, um, for example, for BBC radio in the past, um, I'd long nurtured the desire to do something which combines those two to as great a degree as possible.

[3:28] Alexander Bermange: Um round about the same time, I was also starting to give some solo performances of my comic writing.

[3:38] Alexander Bermange: Now, this was several years ago, by which time um I'd only really performed my own comic songs in the comfort of a radio studio without a live audience.

[3:51] Alexander Bermange: I mean, there'd be a listening audience of millions, but certainly not one that I would have to stare at and be potentially intimidated by.

[4:25] Alexander Bermange: And when I was wondering what material I could give them to sing, I thought it might be rather nice, since they were musical theatre artists, to write a couple of new funny songs about being musical theatre artists.

[4:38] Alexander Bermange: And they went down particularly well.

[4:40] Alexander Bermange: And then over the course of the ensuing months, as I was giving more of these live shows and getting more of my um West End performer friends to guest for me, I was creating a few more of these songs.

[4:54] Alexander Bermange: So that was impetus number two.

[4:56] Alexander Bermange: And the third and final one was something of mine being done on a cruise a few years ago.

[5:02] Alexander Bermange: And me really taking note of the fact that for the two weeks that I was on board the ship and dining on a nightly basis with the casting creative team, I was really struck by the extent to which passengers would gravitate towards our table and ply our cast members with all manner of questions about what life as an actor was really like, and that showed me that a lot of these lay people for want of a better word had many well-meaning misconceptions or preconceptions, assuming, for example, that even the most lowly chorus member would be chauffeured from their front door to the stage door in a limousine on a nightly basis, or that when uh a production went on tour, those same lowly chorus members would be put up in five-star hotels all the way around the country.

[6:02] Alexander Bermange: And it occurred to me that if I could create a comedic musical about the lives of musical theatre performers that people don't tend to know very much about or talk very much about, it might be illuminating for normal people, um relatable for industry folk, and hopefully funny for both sets of people.

[6:36] Alexander Bermange: Was originally a product of all those different things coming together, and uh I set to work.

[6:42] Alexander Bermange: And now we have this is just such a cool idea.

[6:47] Josh Mitchell: Oh there's just so many like cool like little moments where I'm like, yeah, I can see why this is what it is.

[6:55] Josh Mitchell: Um, speaking of some cool West End people that you've got in your cast, you've got Luke Bayer, Charlotte O'Rourke, Lucas Rush, Charlotte Ansteen in this recorded version, um, available for streaming now.

[7:06] Josh Mitchell: What's it been like getting to see these people take on your show and build this into what it is?

[7:13] Alexander Bermange: Amazing.

[7:14] Alexander Bermange: Really, really lovely.

[7:16] Alexander Bermange: The two girls uh appeared in the recent Edinburgh production of the show.

[7:23] Alexander Bermange: Um, the show was done at the most recent Edinburgh Fringe, uh, where we were fortunate enough to really create a bit of a stir.

[7:34] Alexander Bermange: Um, we were lucky enough to sell out the entire run and to get uh around 25-star reviews and just had a uh a really quite staggering experience.

[7:46] Alexander Bermange: And they were both phenomenal.

[7:49] Alexander Bermange: Um Charlotte O'Rourke is known to British theatre audiences from uh Mamma Mia, both in the West End and on tour.

[7:58] Alexander Bermange: Charlotte Ansteen has been in shows from Bat Out of Hell to 42nd Street in the West End, from Rock of Ages to We Will Rock You on tour.

[8:08] Alexander Bermange: So it was it was lovely to be reuniting with them.

[8:12] Alexander Bermange: Um Lucas Rush had done the pre-Edinburgh run in London, and I was thrilled to get him back to preserve his performance on film.

[8:26] Alexander Bermange: I'd previously seen him uh playing leads in all manner of shows from Rock of Ages to Thoroughly Modern Millie to Um American Idiot, for which he was actually uh nominated for a Broadway World Award.

[8:42] Alexander Bermange: Um, and Luke Bayer was completely new to the show.

[8:47] Alexander Bermange: Um, again, he was someone who's worked uh he won a What's on Stage Award for his performance as the lead in Everybody's Talking About Jamie?

[8:57] Alexander Bermange: He won a Western Wheelmore Award for performance in Fiverr, and with him completing the the foursome, um it felt as though we had the best of all worlds.

[9:09] Alexander Bermange: We had a couple of representatives from the Edinburgh production, a representative from the London production, someone completely new, and to just have four performers who are all right at the top of their game delivering my work was just wonderful.

[9:27] Alexander Bermange: The thing about these songs is they're very much um vehicles for performers, they're very much uh performance opportunities.

[9:38] Alexander Bermange: Each song is like a mini showcase in itself, but it's almost like a mini musical in itself.

[9:43] Alexander Bermange: I don't tend to write songs that go verse chorus, verse, chorus, chorus where everything's repeated.

[9:51] Alexander Bermange: Um they are all songs that for want of a better word, go on a journey that tell a story that are difficult to learn, but which are dependent as much on technical proficiency um as on uh comedic instinct and really ability to embody a character, and particularly in this show, pretty much every song is a different character.

[10:18] Alexander Bermange: Um, so it was just wonderful, and there's there's something about comedy as well, um, because no matter how good or bad the writing is, you're always dependent on a performer with the right set of comedic chops to be able to to deliver the goods, and um, and uh in that respect, we really hit the jackpot with this lineup.

[10:43] Alexander Bermange: So I was I was very happy indeed.

[10:45] Josh Mitchell: So good.

[10:46] Josh Mitchell: Um, you mentioned the three kind of stages of the production from London to uh Edinburgh to film.

[10:53] Josh Mitchell: What's it been like to see your work kind of develop over this time and how much is kind of the performance changed over this period?

[11:01] Alexander Bermange: Uh good question.

[11:03] Alexander Bermange: It has evolved um more between some of those steps than between others.

[11:11] Alexander Bermange: Initially, we had a one-week run in London to see what would happen, to see if it worked, to see what the audience reaction was like, to see what the critical reaction was like, and we worked on the material a fair bit before that.

[11:32] Alexander Bermange: So, in between initial pitch to producer and first night, um, quite a lot had changed, more in terms of some of the finer details of the songs rather than anything too dramatic or drastic structurally.

[11:49] Alexander Bermange: Fortunately, it went down very well indeed.

[11:53] Alexander Bermange: So then it was brought back a few months later when we did a little bit more work on it.

[12:01] Alexander Bermange: Um, we took out a couple of songs, we put in a couple of songs, um, we uh made one pretty major adjustment um to the order of the songs by moving one song to the end, which really had a very beneficial effect on the overall production.

[12:23] Alexander Bermange: Uh that time the reaction was even stronger and more positive than the first time around.

[12:30] Alexander Bermange: With Edinburgh, there were two main alterations.

[12:38] Alexander Bermange: The first being that for Edinburgh, we had to make it shorter because Edinburgh fringe shows tend to be around an hour in length. That's just because of the whole infrastructure that the Edinburgh Fringe is set up around, and the way that generally theatre goers like to go and see several shows one after the other during the course of the day, and the timings of the slots are such that they're mainly an hour long with a little bit of time in between for turnaround. So we really had to condense the show. But what we were also able to do was to give it more of a physical production. The venue in London that it had been at on both occasions was more of a cabaret space, a very glamorous and lovely cabaret space, but nevertheless one without much stage space.

Which this film production is very closely based on. Um, we did add an extra song, um, but other than that, we went on the adage that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also, because we had a production that we felt worked, um, this all came together quite suddenly. It was a wonderful opportunity to film it, but we also had to do it in quite a short space of time. And needless to say, the circumstances in which we were doing it were very different to the circumstances in which we were able to rehearse the Edinburgh production because of all of the restrictions in place because of the pandemic that we're all going through at the moment. So the show has evolved and I'm sure will continue to evolve.

There's actually a production of it that's currently running in Seoul in South Korea, which, as listeners may know, is one of the few territories that has succeeded in adapting and adjusting to the pandemic, as far as their theatre community is concerned, rather better than many other territories in that performances of shows there have managed to carry on largely uninterrupted. And I gather that Australia has been pretty good as well, certainly in comparison with what, for example, the UK and the states and part of mainland Europe have been through. So it is very much an evolving show, but this is a production that's really largely based on the Edinburgh incarnation.

[15:22] Josh Mitchell: Amazing. I just love how much thought and time has been put into this and just your experience with the show, obviously being the person that wrote it, is just like so good to pick your brain and hear how created in this like way I guess is a good way to put it.

[16:06] Alexander Bermange: Well, it is really just the journey of a musical or any musical that really has a little bit of nurturing um and development time lavished on it because especially being comedic in nature there are certain things you don't really know until it's up in front of an audience when I write something I always try and make it as funny as possible if it's designed to make people laugh but until it's actually road tested with a paying public watching and listening you don't know how successful you've been and so through the various iterations we've been able to fine-tune it uh keep the things that were proving uh popular um work on certain ones ditch the ones that maybe weren't going as well as we'd anticipated and it's really the product of performers along the way who've been in it adding their input um the directors that we've had working on it um it's currently as far as this streamed production which is based on the Edinburgh is concerned in the expert directorial and choreographic hands of Chris Whitaker who's an award winning British director and choreographer so there's a lot of him in there.

[17:30] Alexander Bermange: And I think you've just got to always be open to the idea of tweaking and fine-tuning, especially because in this instance, we were filming it in an empty theatre. At the moment in London, people aren't allowed to go to the theatre, so there was no live audience. So it was great that the production had been through these iterations so that we were confident of the things that the audiences at home will appreciate or find funny from our experience with the show up until now. Because obviously there was no proof of that when we were doing it, because we were doing it with a totally empty auditorium.

[18:15] Josh Mitchell: Yeah. Such a like from a performance and like film perspective, like most musicals when they or shows when they film, they know they either want to have the live audience or empty audience for specific notes, not film the whole show with an empty audience. Very interesting, especially with this time, just to adapt to get art out there. Hats off to your team for making it work.

[18:45] Alexander Bermange: Because like it's just an in we were pleased to have the uh the opportunity, and when theatres closed in London over a year ago and indeed across the UK, uh in the first instance, um there was a glutter of film productions appearing online and being made available to stream. Um and thank goodness there were because they were filling a palpable void um in the lives of the theatre going public. And obviously, all of those at that time were shows that were already in the can, had been filmed, had been done with live audiences. But then as time goes on, you can't film shows with live audiences because you can't put on shows with live audiences. So therefore creatives have had to be more creative, excuse the pun, um, in terms of what they put together and how they create them.

And we didn't want to just put something out that was in the can, largely because what we had in the can uh from when the show's been filmed in the past has been archival. It wasn't bespoke, if that makes sense. And what we were able to do with this version was to create something that isn't a theatre show, isn't a film, but is a hybrid of the two. So there were certain things that Chris, our director, could do that he wouldn't have been able to do on stage. Um, we can also create the feeling of being right up close and personal with these performers who are all playing performers and who in the show are revealing their innermost secrets, they're bearing their souls, as the characters obviously, but you know, it's all based on the truth.

And so there's something absolutely wonderful to be able to watch it on your computer screen or your television or however people consume these things and feel as though you are in the room sitting right next to them, having a conversation with them rather than squinting from the back of the stalls.

[21:00] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, and for everyone listening, you guys have heard us talk about this show. And if you guys want to finish this episode and watch this show, which I highly recommend. If you are watching this before uh listening to this before the 12th of May, uh, you can head to Kingshead Theatre website, get your ticket, stream it right now because it is going like I'm going to do it literally right after we hit Stockland's recording. Um so make sure you guys do too.

[21:27] Josh Mitchell: Um on a broader topic, Alexander, I just want to pick your brain on this. What as a creative and obviously a writer and everything like that, what do you think the future of um theatre and live performance is post-lockdowns and restrictions and everything like that. Um, how much of what we're doing now do you think will translate into future years to come in London and beyond?

[21:56] Alexander Bermange: That's a really good question, and the truthful answer is I don't really know, and I'm not sure everyone really knows. What I do know is that there is something that is irreplaceable about live theatre, and as soon as it is safe and permissible for people to return to live theatre, I have every confidence that they will in their droves. Um I know that there's this great hunger, there's this great appetite, there's this great impatience to go back into an auditorium and have that shared communal experience of watching a show and have that edge of your seat moment when you know that everything is happening live and is unique to that moment in time, is not something that's being preserved to be able to be watched again and again and again.

Having said that, the array of streamed productions that we've had during the past year has demonstrated two things. Uh, one is that there are possibilities which maybe aren't the same as exist in the world of live theatre. So it's not necessarily an art form which needs to be better than, worse than, or compete with the experience that's offered to people going in and sitting in an auditorium, um, but something which does offer a different kind of experience. As I said, the ability to feel as though you're, you know, you can truly see the sweat on the brow of the artists. Um, and I think that's something that the door having been opened, I don't think that the producers and the enterprising people who've been masterminding all these stream productions are suddenly gonna slam it shut, especially since um many of these productions have been proving to be very popular indeed.

Um, equally, I think for audiences, there are a lot of people who are not always in a position to go and see a live show because of uh physical circumstances, because of geographical circumstances, because of financial circumstances, and I think what this whole year of streamed productions has shown is that theatre is an art form that can be accessible to people who might not physically be able to track to wherever their nearest performance space is. Um they might not have one that's easily convenient, they might not have the financial resources to pay for the ticket and the travel and the babysitter and the meal out and all of the other expenses that um that may be incurred.

[25:09] Alexander Bermange: So I reckon that to some degree we're going to see a coexistence of the two. I think we will see a return to live performance and people will flock back. But I think we'll continue to see an online presence of theatrical productions, and I think that's a very good thing personally.

[25:30] Josh Mitchell: Do you I would I I've been against the idea of not not online to have like the new works that have come out to go online. Um I was very anti the Hamilton Disney Plus thing just because I feel like it didn't capture the show correctly. I I felt like there was a lot that was missed. Um do you think that directors and producers and everything of that will have some like a uh idea in the back of the mind of how the show could be adapted or changed to be better um perceived on film and by audiences that aren't there being able to watch everyone because they're on a TV screen with a yes, completely.

[26:22] Alexander Bermange: I think people are going to have to be extremely creative about how they go about doing these things. Uh for a couple of reasons. One is that it's no longer a novelty to have filmed productions. You know, not so very long ago, it would have been unheard of for a show that was on Broadway or a brand new show or a show that was somewhere between those two stages of its development to be filmed. There was just two different things. There were just things that were done in the theatre and things that were filmed. And if there were films of um musicals or plays, then they would be film adaptations, which had absolutely nothing to do with the stage productions other than the writing. It would be different sets, it would be different performers, it would be different directors and everything.

[27:26] Alexander Bermange: Yes, I think because there's more competition and people are being more selective, uh, they won't want to just see something that they feel is a second rate version of the experience that they would get by going to see a show. Um they want to feel that it is a different kind of experience, which can be just as thrilling, but in different ways. Fortunate with I Wish My Life or Life a Musical that we were doing a bespoke version and one that was very much conceived for this uh medium.

[28:11] Josh Mitchell: Yeah. Um, but yes, I mean I've seen some which I think have been uh captured brilliantly, and I've seen some which have literally just felt like I was sitting right at the back of a massive theatre, and that I would have actually probably enjoyed more doing that rather than the frustration which I felt through having to watch it on my screen. So I think I think a lot of it is to do with invention. It's not even necessarily to do with budget because I've seen some some filmed productions which have obviously had money thrown at them, um, which I have enjoyed somewhat less than ones which uh I presume were done on the on a shoestring, but which had uh a huge amount of creativity lavished on them.

[29:00] Alexander Bermange: So yeah, I think you're you're absolutely right. People are going to have to be um careful about how they go about filming shows now that um it is far more commonplace than it was, and now that the the pain punters have have more to choose from.

[29:18] Josh Mitchell: Yeah, and I feel like that would cut down on the unloved bootleggers in the society that think it's a great idea to go in and do that. I think having that more accessibility and even if it's a streaming platform, you'll get subscribers, like put it up there, like but um I feel like it had just agreed to take out that negative side of people who think that filming shows for sharing with everyone is their responsibility and okay for them to do it. I feel like it'd just negate that.

[29:56] Alexander Bermange: Absolutely. I mean, I think uh the whole uh I was going to call it an industry, it's not really an industry, but but at times it seems so prevalent that that one almost thinks it is. And the whole industry of um, you know, uh bootleg videos uh surfacing um is actually quite damaging in many respects um because it doesn't reflect the true theatrical experience that you gain from going to see a live show, and let's also not forget the fact that um bootlegs harm the industry and harm all those who have worked on a particular production um of which a bootleg is being viewed.

[30:52] Alexander Bermange: Now, if the writer of that show is rolling in money anyway, that not that might not affect their income in the grand scheme of things, and that's what uh bootleggers and viewers of such recordings may be tempted to think. But let's not forget the fact that the vast majority of those associated with the productions are you know or earning a regular wage, the same as other ordinary people, um, the actors, the musicians, the uh dressers, the stage management teams, um, the technicians, um, and basically their work is being in some ways uh stolen for online distribution, and furthermore not shown at its best. Because how can it be from a dodgy camera at the at the back of a theatre?

[31:59] Alexander Bermange: Um for every person who watches a bootleg instead of going to see something on stage, they're depriving those uh creatives and that talent of the chance to do their thing, to practice their craft, to undertake their work, um, and to have the opportunity to show themselves in the environment in which they trained. Um, and I think the viewers are always doing them also doing themselves out of the potential joy of having such an experience. So I think one of the lovely things of having well produced filmed versions of theatre shows um come available is that hopefully um the musical theatre community um who maybe have resorted to bootlegs because they felt starved of other online content now really does have uh quality online content um which is affordable to access, but which also means that the artists and the creative teams who put together such productions are able to show off their work to best effect.

[33:27] Alexander Bermange: Um the viewers are able to enjoy it to best effect. And it also means that the income stream doesn't dry up so that then more such works can be produced in the future for everyone to enjoy.

[33:44] Josh Mitchell: Such a great insight. Like that was the perfect answer. Exactly what I was looking for. Great take.

[33:51] Alexander Bermange: Oh, well, I'm glad I'm glad that it chimed. I'm glad it chimed with your thoughts.

[33:55] Josh Mitchell: And hopefully it did with everyone else as well. Um definitely smash that on. We're gonna wrap things up. Um I'm gonna get to one last question to wrap us up on. But guys, once again, if you haven't got your ticket already or haven't seen it, Kingshead Theatre.com right now is where you can get in stream. I wish were my my life were like a musical. Um let me know what you thought of it. Make sure you tag me in a photo on Instagram of you watching it.

[34:20] Alexander Bermange: Um to wrap things up, Alexander. Um as a patron or um a member of the industry, what are you most looking forward to uh when theaters do reopen?

[34:39] Alexander Bermange: I'm looking forward to many things, but if I had to pick the thing that I'm most looking forward to, which was after all your question, um it's being able to comfortably and safely be in a room with actors and creative teams and play with new material. I've got a couple of shows that are ready to be workshopped, um, that are waiting to basically have um some weeks of time spent on them developing the material, fine-tuning it through playing around with it with actors and directors and my collaborators. And that's something we haven't fully been able to do. Um, one of these pieces has had a Zoom reading and then had a uh a workshop with some drama students from one of the big drama schools in London because um that's one of the environments in which uh the performing arts has been able to carry on, albeit with a lot of proportions and restrictions in place.

[35:57] Alexander Bermange: Um other of the pieces we've had regular Zoom meetings in terms of moving it forward. But there are so many things that you you literally need to be in a room with people to do. Zoom is wonderful, but it's never a replacement for really being able to uh get together with a bunch of people um to grapple with new material, try things out, spar off each other, um, get physical with each other, move things about, get close to each other. Um, I'm looking forward to doing all of those things. Um as a theatre enthusiast, I'm looking forward to going back into uh into venues and seeing seeing shows to having more of those experiences where you get those shivers down your spine and goose bumps and all of those things that make those who love theatre love theatre. Um, I can't wait for all of those to come back.

[37:01] Alexander Bermange: And I also can't wait for the fact that when we do I think we will appreciate it all the more because so many of us have been deprived it for so long.

[37:11] Josh Mitchell: That is the perfect note to wrap things up on. Thank you so much Alex for joining us that was thank you for having me anytime and guys make sure if you want to hear more episodes like this one we've got plenty more to come. So hit that subscribe and follow button wherever you're listening. Follow us on the socials at We Are Theatre and we will see you next week with a brand new episode of the We Are Theatre Podcast. Goodbye.