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[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "When Lightning Strikes" — performed by Tom McGovern ♪

[0:26] Jeryl Brunner: Hi, this is Jeryl Brunner, and you're listening to When Lightning Strikes, where we talk about the tingly mic drop moments that led you to becoming an artist.

[0:37] Katy Sullivan: Katy Sullivan is reprising her role as Ani in the Pulitzer Prize-winning play, Cost of Living, which opened on Broadway October 3rd. Just a few of her other acting credits include Dexter: New Blood, My Name is Earl, and Last Man Standing. A double below the knee bilateral amputee and four-time U.S. Paralympian champion, Katy is the first female amputee and only the second amputee actor to ever appear in a Broadway production. So welcome, Katy. It's such a joy to have you on the show.

[1:20] Katy Sullivan: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really thrilled. Really excited. Uh, because I think about when I first connected to you. It was uh when Cost of Living was um was off-Broadway, and now it's coming to Broadway, and tonight is your opening night. So how do you feel? I mean, I feel like uh it's kind of a dream come true. I think any kid that kind of grows up as a theater nerd, like, you know, it's kind of it's the Super Bowl, so like you either sink or you swim. You know, it's um that's one of the most amazing things about live theater in general is that you don't really know what's gonna happen, and um you just kind of get on the roller coaster and go for the ride, and I'm just really excited. It's such an incredible piece of work, and um I mean at the end of the day, it's really changed my life in a lot of ways.

[2:20] Jeryl Brunner: Well, can you take me to 2016? Was it then when you first read this gorgeous play, Martyna Majok's beautiful play, Cost of Living? What went through your mind?

[2:32] Katy Sullivan: Um, a couple things went through my mind when I first read this play. One was uh I was incredibly intimidated by it. Um, it is these characters who are incredibly vulnerable and incredibly going through some pretty extreme situations, but she also very clearly instructs actors to not uh let these characters get too um sentimental. So like they don't have time for a lot of sentimentality. So um it's this crazy balance of people dealing with each other in these extreme circumstances, but um not being able to sit in their feelings too long. So um it was an intimidating piece, but I also believe as an artist, when something when you're offered, you know, something confronted with something or have the opportunity to be a part of something that scares you, it's like, okay, that's probably worth your time.

[3:38] Jeryl Brunner: What was so scary about it, and for people who don't know this play, can you talk about what it's about?

[3:44] Katy Sullivan: There's so many themes to it and elements, and you know there's two caretakers, right, at its core, and then two people are being taken care of, and yeah, and but then you realize who's really being taken care of, and right and how their lives intermingle. But can you tell us about this play, what it's about?

[4:07] Katy Sullivan: It is um it's kind of two storylines that you don't know how they're connected until the very end. And um, like you said, it's a person who needs care and a caregiver, and then on the other side, a person who needs care and a caregiver. And um on my side of the play, it's my uh husband who we are separated. So um uh and my character has is a recent, it's been a she's about six months after an accident, a car accident that has left her a quadriplegic and a double amputee, because that is me, I am a double amputee, so we sort of included that into her story. Um because I was like, it doesn't make any sense for her to be sitting in a wheelchair with prosthetic legs on. Like, why are we doing this?

So, like, you know, that's kind of where that came from. But and then on the other side of it, it is um a character named John and a character named Jess, and she is taking care of him, and he has uh cerebral palsy, which is from birth. Um, and it really kind of is there's a lot of thematic um elements to it where it's sort of comparing like the haves and the have nots, you know, like people trying to just make ends meet, and someone who has means and privilege to be able to choose who to take care of him, and um, you know, he almost wants someone to take care of him that he finds entertaining, you know, that he's like excited to like have cool conversations with in the morning when he's getting dressed, and um, on our side of things, it's like my nurse didn't show up.

And it's like, you know, so it really digs into even just like elements of like care in this country, who gets it, who needs it. Um, the character Jess, her mother has to leave the country because they can't afford her health care, and um, but at the end of the day, it is a play about the fact that we all need someone for something, and it's not just physically, it's not just specifically about people who need physical care. We all need emotional care too.

[6:17] Jeryl Brunner: And all these characters are so multidimensional, so human. And I think about Ani and how she's tough as nails, she's hilarious. You know, I think of your comic timing. What do you love about her? And can you talk about what qualities she has that you adore?

[6:40] Katy Sullivan: I um I love so many things about Ani. At this point, it's been I've been, this is my fifth production of this show over the course of six years, and at this point, it just feels like visiting an old friend. I mean, she is like you said, she is tough as nails. She's really hurt though, at the core of that. You know, she's been disappointed by her relationship and her husband, but they also um a lot of the reasons for the disappointment and sadness is kind of some of her own problems. She has addiction problems, she's an alcoholic. She, that's what caused the accident and what caused probably the disintegration of her relationship. Um facing those incredibly challenging real life issues and themes, but with this, as you also said, wit and humor, and she is uh she's got a she has got her tongue is like a you know a sword.

She is all she has is her ability to communicate after her movement is taken away. So I don't know if that's sharpened it or what, but she is uh just delicious to play. And um, I think you know, in a lot of ways, Ani uses um humor as a defense mechanism so that she doesn't show her vulnerability. It's the moments where she's actually vulnerable that she makes a joke or she cracks a you know a witty comment. So um, and I think that that's relatable to a lot of people, you know, a lot of people use humor as a defense mechanism.

[8:24] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying. And it's a fascinating dynamic between her and her ex. Yuri is taking care of her, she has to depend on him, and he's feeling guilty, and they have this complex history, right? Which makes for incredible theater. And I always loved um Jesse Green's New York Times review back when the show opened off-Broadway, when he said it would be a mistake to see Cost of Living as an identity play about people with disabilities. Rather, it's a play about disabilities with people in both its stories, which eventually collide. The biggest handicaps are the universal ones, fear and disconnection. I just think that's really powerful.

[9:21] Katy Sullivan: Very powerful. And and refreshing that that is that that is coming through. Like that is what we all hope for. I think people see a wheelchair or two wheelchairs, and they're like, oh, this is a play about disability. And it's it's so not. It's a play about relationships and about people trying to just get to the next day. You know, it's not um, and uh it is so refreshing to to hear people kind of walk away with that.

[9:53] Jeryl Brunner: That's amazing.

[9:55] Katy Sullivan: Yeah, because it really is about human beings trying to collect, trying to navigate this very complicated world.

[10:04] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah.

[10:04] Katy Sullivan: Yeah, and they're all struggling so much in their own ways. And I'd love to know about your lightning strikes moments. When did you know you had to be an artist? Once you told me about seeing Charlie and the Chocolate Factory when you were a kid in Alabama. But I'll let you tell the stories of your lightning strikes moments.

[10:28] Katy Sullivan: The ones that really stick out for me. I mean, first before I even understood it was a thing or possible, there was something about um seeing the movie Annie when I was really little that I was just like, I would walk, I would walk around my house um singing, I'm Annie, I'm Annie, I love you, I'm Annie. Like I didn't know what acting was, and I didn't know, I just knew that these were children, and I didn't understand how they got to do this. And um, you know, I'm living in a town in Alabama, and I was like, I don't do you think there are like agents here? Like I was just like, you know, my parents were like, oh my god. But it really was, I think the biggest lightning strike moment for me was um when I saw a production, a children's theater production in Alabama of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and the girl who played uh played Violet went to my elementary school, and I almost fell out of my chair.

I was like, I know her. Like all of a sudden, it all became possible. The world opened up, and it was like, oh, but like she goes, she goes to my school. Like, people can do that. This is a thing actually, people can do. So um, it was really at that moment and after that moment that I was just like, well, no, I'm gonna be an actor. Like, you know, even in like second or third grade. Ask me what I was gonna do, and I would be like, Well, I'm gonna be an actor. Without ever having really understanding what that means.

[12:07] Jeryl Brunner: And where was this in Alabama?

[12:10] Katy Sullivan: In Tuscaloosa. I grew up in um in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. So um, and you know, I grew up after that point, started auditioning for for children's theater stuff myself, and I did a bunch of community theater, and I I was so I fell so hard in love with theater and the process that I would do anything. I would paint sets, I would help build sets. I was a stage manager sometimes. I uh helped with costumes and I was terrible at that, and they were like, maybe let's do something else. But um they uh I just wanted to be in the building. Like that's all I cared about. Like, I actually think I even not think, I'm sorry, I missed my prom because I was doing a play. Like if that shows you my commitment to that this is all I've ever wanted to do. I didn't even go to, I didn't go to prom because I was I was doing a play.

[13:10] Jeryl Brunner: What was the play?

[13:11] Katy Sullivan: I think it was I think it was I think it was You Can't Take It With You. Um and it was, you know, it was community theater, and it was, you know, I I much I was so much happier being in that space with with other artists and other actors, and like going to the prom and like football games and stuff like that, like none of that, it just didn't matter to me in the same way. So I I knew so early on that I was like, this is it, that's it, this is it.

[13:45] Jeryl Brunner: Is it hard to describe how it made you feel being on the stage?

[13:52] Katy Sullivan: I mean, it's exhilarating. I think um there is I don't, it's hard to explain how it feels to to be on stage. It um I think we have we all I think as actors, I think we have our we we have to be a little bit crazy to like be like this is gonna work out just fine. Like this is a viable career path, especially being a performer with a disability with no one to point to when I was a kid to say, Oh, I'm gonna do that. Like to uh get to the place where uh I was just like, why not me?

[14:35] Katy Sullivan: Like what me? So um, and you know, if you keep asking that question long enough, I guess sometimes it comes to pass. And I love that your parents encouraged it that they didn't say, even though there were low role models you could find that they said, yeah, go for it. Yeah, my um my dad definitely was like, maybe you should double major and like maybe you should, because I went to a conservatory for acting school. And I was like, Dad, I don't, I don't want to. Like part of also the other thing about it was like it was like, you know, you could teach, like maybe you could teach acting or whatever. And I was like, I was like, the most important thing about being a teacher to me is passion. And I was like, I don't have my, I don't have the passion to be a teacher.

Like that's not where my passion lies. And I was like, I would not want to put myself in a position where I'm doing something just because, you know, it feels like a fallback kind of situation. So um, but yeah, I mean, my parents, my mom would just drive me to auditions and drive me to play practice, and like she would um, you know, she started doing stuff, she started doing stuff. She would, she would, she started, she would, she's not a performer, she did not want to do any of that, but she started building sets and painting sets, and she would go hang out in the construction shop and like work with the guys, and like she loved it, and it so it sort of um created this space for her as well, um, of something that she really enjoyed to be a part of that world as well.

It's so phenomenal that they all got involved and supported you, and so here you were at uh at the uh the conservatory of theater arts at Webster University, and then you ended up at the Goodman Theater. Is that right?

[16:42] Katy Sullivan: Yes, yeah. I was um the summer after I graduated, I went to um I did summer stock in uh a cornfield in Illinois, was basically where we did theater. And um there was a director there that summer named Chuck Smith, and he was directing a piece um, and he's a he was a resident director at the Goodman, and we just hit it off, and I think he appreciated my spunk and my, you know, you know, I didn't have any self-pity. I just was sort of like, let's go do, you know, let's go to work. And um, he was directing a show the next season at the Goodman, and he asked me to come be his assistant director. So um, and then I ended up interning at the Goodman. The Goodman has really sort of been this really lovely, like first place for me to learn so much.

I was I ended up being the casting intern. And I learned so much about auditioning. I learned so much about casting directors. I learned so much about how the people that are sitting across the table from you, you know, on the other side of the table, which seems so scary and so intimidating. All they want is for you to come in and knock their socks off. Like they are rooting for you to win. And it makes them look better when you show up. And it just, it just kind of opened my eyes to that whole process as not something to be afraid of and not something to be like they are your enemy or like a dragon you have to slay or whatever. Like they want you to come in and make their job easy so they can go home. You know.

[18:31] Jeryl Brunner: And how did you go from doing that working as an intern and in casting to play Heta Gabbler and all these incredible roles?

[18:42] Katy Sullivan: And I, you know, I just I kind of did the internship and then started auditioning for stuff in Chicago. And I um I did um I got to do Lady Windermere's Fan at Northlight and um years later did a play um back at the Goodman um where it was sort of like I was in, you know, intern makes good, like you know, the casting intern from back in the day. Um, but Philip Seymour Hoffman directed um me in a play called uh The Long Red Road at the Goodman. And um it was just this kind of beautiful, exciting homecoming to to kind of get to show back up and and and be with all the people that I, you know, that where I got my start, um, which was really cool. It's so phenomenal. And then you ended up in LA, right? Doing film and TV and

[19:32] Katy Sullivan: Yeah. Um, yeah, Chicago, Chicago was a little hard. Um, I was living in the city, I was a pedestrian. I would like park my car and not see it for three weeks. So in the winter, being a double above-the-knee amputee, walking around on stilts every day on ice and snow and stuff, I was like, okay, this was a great place to cut my teeth and to kind of get my start. But um, but I moved to LA. Um, I also did want to do, you know, I wanted to do TV, and um, I wanted to do all that stuff. So, so yeah, I spent I've spent I spent I have spent the greater part of my um adult life and career in LA. Um, but I've been in New York for the last couple of years for this. So what was it like to come back? You said it's like visiting a friend to come back to Ani, to come back to the play after the world is so different since you last did it.

[20:36] Katy Sullivan: Yeah, you know, in 2017, 2018, and here you are, you know, post-pandemic, and hopefully the world is has changed, you know, in terms of being more understanding. And I hope. I hope. I hope as well. That is my hope as well. I hope. Yep. Post Pulitzer Prize, you know, all these pieces. What was that like to revisit the play? I mean, it's extraordinary. I mean, coming back to this piece is extraordinary anyway, but it's so interesting to do this play after what we've experienced globally. And um to do this play that is so much about loss and loneliness and isolation, and every single one of these characters is feeling feeling some sort of isolation. And having gone through what we went through in the with COVID in the last couple of years, like we there is a deeper understanding from I think everyone.

And I think there were times, you know, as a society that we were really had we really were confronted by um the fragility of life and the um, you know, the fact that there was an invisible monster out there, and none of us knew, you know, early on, like how do we you're wiping down groceries and stuff, and it's just like so. I think um I think that that has changed uh I mean it couldn't, it can't help but change the perspective of the audience than the people who saw it before the pandemic for sure.

[22:26] Jeryl Brunner: Do you remember when you learned about the Pulitzer?

[22:30] Katy Sullivan: When you got in the I do, I do. Um it was actually I was I was in LA, I was in Studio City in my apartment. It was um a year after we closed the show off Broadway, and um Wendell Pierce, actually, uh, who played Eddie for the first time ever, he was my first Eddie in um Williamstown. Um my phone rang and it was Wendell, and I answered the phone. And I was like, I was like, hey, Wendell, what's going on? And he was like, I have to uh am I allowed to swear on this podcast? He goes, I answered the phone and he, I was like, hey, Wendell, and he goes, Pulitzer fucking prize. And I was like, what? And he goes, Pulitzer fucking prize. That's all he said. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. And he was like, I am not kidding you. So like I found out from my first my first Eddie and my buddy Wendell Pierce, which was just a really, a really lovely way to learn about the success of this script.

[23:43] Jeryl Brunner: And do you want to also talk about I love that being a Paralympic champion runner? I love, I think that's so extraordinary that you have this whole other, this whole other piece of you that's an athlete. And I love that story of the doctor who told your mom.

[24:05] Katy Sullivan: Yeah, yeah. I mean, she she uh when I so I was born without the lower halves of my legs. It was uh I'm not actually technically an amputee. Um alert the alert the media, but um uh it's way easier to say amputee than it is to say congenital knee disarticulation, and then people are like, what? What does that even mean? So um, but my uh yeah, my mom early on would take me to like doctor's appointments and stuff, and clearly there were moments for her, she's a rock star, but there were moments where it was like, you know, you have this tiny little baby, and you have you're facing this like, what is this person's life gonna be like? Um, and uh a doctor came in and sat with her and was talking to her, and I um and he said to her, he was like, you know, the world doesn't need another runner.

Like she's gonna find other things to to enjoy and to be good at, and it was like, you know, we got that covered. And so um when I was given the opportunity to, I mean, just to even try running blades when I was 25. Um, I had never run before in my life. Like what I was born without my legs. I was not a runner. I was like, so um being able to sort of have the opportunity to have that chapter in my life where I got to travel around the world. I represented the United States, I set American records over and over again, and I um, you know, came in sixth in the world among women who uh there were only two of us that were bilateral above the knee amputees. Most of uh most everyone I was competing against had a sound side, so or a uh an able-bodied, you know, leg on one side.

And um, so out of the blocks, I I was always, you know, I was always playing catch up. So to come in sixth in the world, uh, you know, uh in a in a hundred meters in front of 80,000 people um and setting a mere an American record that day. It was just, it's um incredible, incredible, and not anything I would ever in a million years have seen myself doing. I was a a part of the opening ceremonies of the 96 Olympics in Atlanta, and I and I sang. I was a sing a little kid singer, and I was like, this makes sense. Like that to me was the only time I was ever gonna have any sort of brush with the Olympic anything. And um fast forward to, you know, all these years later running 100 meters, 200 meters for the United States, it's just bananas. It's bananas.

[26:58] Katy Sullivan: Incredible. And I love how you say part of it, part of the success is falling down. That when you fail, that that's when you learn the most.

[27:08] Katy Sullivan: Absolutely. I think failure in any aspect of life, I think failure is such a huge part of not only the learning process, but it also failure really is an opportunity for you to get a gauge on your dedication to what it is that you were trying to do. If failure happens, uh and it creates a roadblock that you are not willing to bust through, your dedication to whatever that is, and it and it can be a beautiful thing for you to learn and say, okay, I'm not, do I need to do this this badly? No. And then you go on your way and you focus on the other things that that make you passionate and determined. But um failure can just be this, you know, for me, it always is moments of just digging my feet in and just being like, I'm gonna do this. Like it's um it uh failure tends to be pretty motivational to me. I mean, after I lick my wounds and I cry and I'm sad and I get over it and I'm like, ugh, okay, let's do it. Let's try again. Let me try again, let me add it, you know.

[28:25] Jeryl Brunner: And isn't it true that your mom made a t-shirt for you that said uh to get yeah, that you when you walked around London?

[28:33] Katy Sullivan: Yeah, you have that story. Yeah, with the um when I got, we were my mom came to London and um to watch me compete, and uh, you know, and I was super nervous and all this stuff, but she actually had a shirt made that said uh the world doesn't need another runner. Um, which is just like it's just it uh it's just again goes to show the the amazing like support and commitment of my family and my parents growing up with like not ever seeing my physical circumstances, something that was to be ashamed of or wrong or um something to be hidden.

[29:15] Katy Sullivan: It was like, what do you want to do?

[29:17] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah, let's do it.

[29:18] Katy Sullivan: Here we go, you know.

[29:20] Jeryl Brunner: So great. Will they be there for your opening?

[29:23] Katy Sullivan: Or um she is here. My mom is here. Um she is uh running around. She's been she's been here all weekend, but she's um she's coming tonight to opening.

[29:34] Katy Sullivan: Um my father passed away, actually, so um about a year and a half ago. But you know what? He almost actually almost two years ago, we're approaching two years, but um he knew that this was happening, which is just a really, you know, lovely, lovely thing to know that he, you know, is and it um he sort of knew that there were these successes being lined up for me, which was a really lovely thing for me to know that he had that knowledge.

[30:03] Katy Sullivan: Like our last text message exchanges were me telling him that I had like uh booked that um the big arc uh of a character on Dexter New Blood.

[30:15] Jeryl Brunner: Yes.

[30:16] Katy Sullivan: And I, you know, he was like, I'm so proud of you, and um, and uh, you know, I you know, so the last sort of exchanges I had had with him, he knew I was gonna be going to Broadway. He knew I was on this big TV show. Like it was just um, you know, it doesn't compare to like having him actually there, but um I know I know he was proud of me.

[30:41] Katy Sullivan: I I hope that he is still proud of me. And um, and I think about him a lot. I think about him when I'm I've been really trying, this whole experience for me has been an exercise in trying to remain present and grateful.

[30:44] Katy Sullivan: Um, and I think that um, you know, losing losing a parent is um it helps you get a little bit of perspective of it's finite. We don't have you know, and so when these things, these moments, these big moments come for you in your life, just trying to take a minute to gratitude and being present and um acknowledging that, and then um and not worrying so much about oh gosh, what's happening next? Where am I, you know, like what are we where what's gonna happen and all this stuff, like just shh, shh, just be in the moment, be grateful, be present, and the the rest of it is just gonna work itself out.

[31:46] Jeryl Brunner: Yes.

[31:47] Katy Sullivan: Well, the lesson. Do you want to talk about Dexter?

[31:50] Jeryl Brunner: Another firecracker role in Esther.

[31:53] Katy Sullivan: Yes.

[31:55] Katy Sullivan: I feel like I'm starting to be typecast. I don't know. Like they're all different. They're very different.

[32:01] Katy Sullivan: Esther, Esther and Ani are very different women. But um, um, no, Esther uh on Dexter New Blood, what is the she was the town gossip, and she is uh they uh she was just dressed outrageously.

[32:17] Katy Sullivan: I had spar, you know, like I had rhinestones on my nails. Like she was so extra. And um and big hair, yes, teased. I it took me, it took me a solid six months to kind of um get my hair back, but um no, she um first of all, being on Dexter, I was a huge fan of the original series, so like I mean, I was even just auditioning, I was like, oh my gosh, I can't even believe I get to audition for this show.

[32:49] Katy Sullivan: Um, and uh, but it was a lovely group of people, and Michael C. Hall, just you know, shows like that. Um the star uh really sort of sets the tone.

[33:04] Katy Sullivan: And um Michael is such a consummate professional and just kind, and you know, he was he basically picks up this entire series and carries it on his back, and um, and he's just lovely, he's a lovely person.

[33:19] Katy Sullivan: So um working with him made made it easier and fun. And Esther, um, you know, she's she was the town gossip.

[33:29] Katy Sullivan: And the thing that was also lovely about what they did with that piece is she is just a woman uh who lives her life with a disability and has a job.

[33:42] Katy Sullivan: Like it was not a plot point, it was not emotionally manipulative that she was disabled. She um she just showed up to work and was good at her job and was a little bit of a gossip, but like uh and I and I talked to like Clyde Phillips and and Scott Reynolds, the right, you know, the writers on the show, and I was like, I just appreciate the fact that you didn't make a meal out of the fact that she was disabled, but that she just is a person with a job.

[33:48] Katy Sullivan: And I was like, we need to see more of that because it normalizes it for people.

[34:19] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah, because I read that you're first of all, Michael Seahall, he's a theater guy, so another kind of spirit, you know, doing lots of theater. But you aren't you, I read writing um a pilot, a series about somebody who's an MPT.

[34:38] Katy Sullivan: Yeah, we it's the it's a um gosh, the development process. It's funny. I was saying to somebody recently, I was like, I am amazed that anything is ever made.

[34:51] Katy Sullivan: I know it's kind of a miracle. It's a miracle that anything ever gets made, but um, yeah, we are developing, we've been kind of developing it over the course of a number of years, and um we've kind of picked up these amazing people along the way.

[35:07] Katy Sullivan: Um, I did a c uh an um a production of Cost of Living in London, and um a genius writer named Georgia Pritchett, who she's uh a producer and writer on Succession, and she was on Veep, and she she was a showrunner for I um The Shrink Next Door.

[35:28] Katy Sullivan: And she we met up for lunch. She asked me to have lunch with her, and she was like, Can I write something for you? I was like, Yes, please.

[35:38] Katy Sullivan: Um can I say yes faster? But um, it's been really interesting though, because we've even with incredible people attached to it, and um uh a beautiful script, funny dark humor, which is kind of my wheelhouse, and like um the amount of resistance that we've felt has been disappointing at times.

[36:04] Katy Sullivan: Um, but we're I think we're kind of at a we had to sort of step back for a minute, and now we are we're kind of in communication again about how do we how how might what I'm doing now possibly change the conversation for that piece later.

[36:20] Jeryl Brunner: Yeah, and yeah, that's great that you're going back to it, yeah, not giving up.

[36:26] Jeryl Brunner: And because I think also I'm thinking about how when you became an athlete, wasn't it kind of a lull in your career in acting?

[36:36] Katy Sullivan: I feel like, yeah, there was this a bit of a lull of, you know, I had done my name is Earl, and I was still in this place, a bit of like uh uh practicing what I called the art of blending in, where I wear cosmetic covers on for my prosthetics, and I would wear jeans all the time, and I would um I didn't want to necessarily be exposed in that way, and so I was really pushing my um agent at the time to be submitting me for anything, able-bodied, you know, whatever.

[37:13] Katy Sullivan: But like we just were not, I we're at a tipping point. Things are different now because we were we at the time there was I would have I mean, acting is my soul, and um, you know, track was just this epic adventure, but at the core of it, like if something had come up for me, um, I would have stepped away from the track in an instant.

[37:40] Katy Sullivan: Um, but it it really just the way that it all kind of worked out, it's like that just sort of this clear, there was this clearing for me to do this thing.

[37:50] Katy Sullivan: And um it's interesting how running has kind of become art imitating life in some ways. There have been shows that I did um NCIS New Orleans, and they were like, we rewrote the scene, and we sure you're gonna be running on a track and like all this stuff, and they'd be like, we've been dying to use this track anyway, like for a location.

[38:11] Katy Sullivan: And and I was I this was in New Orleans, and I was like, that all sounds amazing and like awesome. I was like, my running legs are in LA.

[38:23] Katy Sullivan: They were like, oh no, no, well, overnight them, it's fine, it's fine. So like we had to like, I was like, you could have just told me to bring them, but um, yeah, it's been interesting.

[38:33] Katy Sullivan: This like dynamic, this thing that has sort of like they're sort of this intertwined thing, and it's it's really cool.

[38:42] Jeryl Brunner: Do you do you recall some of the best acting advice you've got learned?

[38:47] Katy Sullivan: I think um honestly working working with Philip Seymour Hoffman, being directed by Phil.

[38:54] Katy Sullivan: Um I I kind of joke and I say it felt like I got my master's degree in acting when I worked with him because it just felt uh I had never been around someone to that ex to that level that the craft of acting mattered to him so it was this like precious, precious thing.

[39:16] Katy Sullivan: And um, but he was um uh he was the one that really um helped me realize that like it's never gonna be perfect, and it's never gonna, it's gonna be I got it in a way that like the work is never done.

[39:39] Katy Sullivan: And on the day you close, you should find something new in either something your scene partner is doing, or some some way that you've kind of broken out of a vocal pattern or surprising yourself in some way.

[39:53] Katy Sullivan: Um, and if you aren't searching for that, then you're missing the point.

[39:59] Katy Sullivan: Because um, and that is specifically honestly more talking about live theater and like getting on that roller coaster and taking the ride every single time and committing to that and committing to um listening.

[40:14] Katy Sullivan: I mean, uh that's the other thing. The best, the best advice I could ever give for an actor is um uh my my fiance, and I always say um that uh uh you have to listen like your life depends on it, because often it does for these characters.

[40:31] Katy Sullivan: And so and that makes all the difference.

[40:33] Katy Sullivan: And you can tell, you can tell when an actor is actively listening, and not just either standing there zoning out thinking about the fact that they have to do laundry later or whatever, but like in that moment and actually listening for those subtle changes, because that's where the you know spontaneity comes from and and the um the real emotion comes from is active listening.

[41:02] Jeryl Brunner: And is there something you wish you could tell that little girl who was listening to Allie, who was watching Charlie in the Chocolate Factory and thinking, okay, why not me? But how, how, how.

[41:14] Katy Sullivan: And here you are making your Broadway debut, you know, with this friend of a character, this who you've lived with for all these years. Is there something you wish you could say?

[41:29] Katy Sullivan: Um girl. I wish I could, I wish I could go back in time and tell her that it's possible.

[41:38] Katy Sullivan: I mean, I know there were so many times that it felt like it was just impossible, and like, why am I still doing this and why am I sticking with this?

[41:45] Katy Sullivan: And I um, but also like, you know, it's more about sh doing a good do your best work you can.

[41:55] Katy Sullivan: Show up every single day and do your best work. That those are the people who are successful long term are the ones that that put their entire soul into what it is they're doing.

[42:10] Katy Sullivan: Um I would also probably tell her it's gonna take you longer than you think.

[42:15] Katy Sullivan: You know, it's gonna be it's gonna be a longer journey and a longer road than you think.

[42:19] Katy Sullivan: And um, and that's okay because uh it's sweeter.

[42:23] Katy Sullivan: If I just like you know, graduated from college and got some gig right away and was on Broadway.

[42:30] Katy Sullivan: I don't know that I would have the incredible level of gratitude that I do, um, and also the respect for um my piece to this puzzle and and the respect for showing up and doing doing the work with my my scene partner, you know.

[42:52] Jeryl Brunner: Beautiful. Well, so much congratulations, Katie.

[42:56] Katy Sullivan: Thank you so much.

[42:58] Jeryl Brunner: It's such a treat to talk to you always, and uh really excited about cost of living.

[43:06] Katy Sullivan: Thank you.

[43:07] Jeryl Brunner: Coming back to New York and it's a Broadway.

[43:10] Katy Sullivan: It still happens every day.

[43:12] Jeryl Brunner: When lightning strikes is the moment you know.

[43:15] Katy Sullivan: The theme song was written by Tom McGovern.

[43:18] Jeryl Brunner: This episode was edited by Kyle Moore.

[43:21] Jeryl Brunner: This episode was produced by Anna Strauss.

[43:24] Katy Sullivan: When lightning strikes.