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[0:02] Joshua Broadbent: You are listening to another episode of Whispers in the Wings.

[0:06] Joshua Broadbent: This week I am joined by a very special co-host, Erin Coubrough.

[0:12] Joshua Broadbent: Members of the Whispers in the Wings community, this is your Act One Beginners Call, your Act One Beginners Call.

[0:19] Joshua Broadbent: Thank you.

[0:23] Joshua Broadbent: Hey everyone, thank you again for tuning in to another episode. Unfortunately, Kelly is unable to join me this week, and I couldn't wait any longer to get another episode of the podcast out to you all. So this week I am joined by a very dear friend of mine, Erin from Perth. Erin, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

[0:39] Erin Coubrough: Oh, I'm so good. I'm so excited to be here and see your face. I've been seeing you for so long.

[0:45] Joshua Broadbent: I know, I know. Now before we dive too deep into some questions, what I will do is quickly read out your bio. Erin graduated from the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts with an advanced diploma in stage management in 2011 and has had a diverse career in stage management since. Starting her career in drama working with Black Swan State Theatre Company and Sydney Theatre Company, she then moved into musical theatre, working on shows such as Legally Blonde and Touring Internationally with Wicked. Whilst living in London, Erin worked on West End Productions McQueen The Play and 4 Minute 12 Seconds before returning to Perth, venturing into contemporary dance and ballet. From 2018 to mid-2021, Erin held the position of production stage manager at Western Australian Ballet during the time she stage managed their award-winning production of Dracula, which is an absolute career highlight. Erin is currently an MBA candidate and is redirecting her career. And she's also a seasonal lecturer in stage management at the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts.

[1:45] Joshua Broadbent: Looking at that bio, it's just really incredible the amount of work that you have done. There's one thing missing from there though.

[1:50] Erin Coubrough: Oh gosh.

[1:51] Joshua Broadbent: And that's the show that we actually met on.

[1:53] Erin Coubrough: Oh my gosh, are you kidding? Did I forget to list it?

[1:57] Joshua Broadbent: Get out of town. That is so funny.

[2:00] Erin Coubrough: You did.

[2:00] Joshua Broadbent: So we met working on The Wizard of Oz, which was my very first show as an ASM.

[2:06] Erin Coubrough: It was my first show as a deputy stage manager. So I feel like when I met you, we were both trying to figure out this whole new roles thing. But oh, it was a great time. I loved that show.

[2:15] Joshua Broadbent: What I love about that show and what I'll always hold on to is the fact that I learnt to call for the first time on that show, and I had you as a really great tutor teaching me.

[2:25] Erin Coubrough: Yes, oh my gosh, I love it. I don't know about you, but how they taught score reading at WAPA was a little bit different to how musicals were kind of called, where it was very, you know, oh here's kind of how you read a score and it's very organic and which is great for ballet and opera. But when I got into musical theatre, it was very like, no, we're calling on the one, two, three, four, five, six. It's not set in stone, but just quite structured compared to, you know, the ballet and opera world.

[2:54] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[2:54] Erin Coubrough: I loved passing on that knowledge to you though. That was so good because it allowed me as well to practice teaching someone else a call, which I think is a skill that, you know, is really valuable in our industry when it comes to mentoring new stage managers in.

[3:08] Joshua Broadbent: Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. And that's the same thing I've just gone through with Once and teaching our ASM the call as well. So I sort of then took those lessons that you've taught me to then teach her. So it's like it's so valuable learning from the right person.

[3:23] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, oh my gosh, I want to could we talk about Once for a minute? Because I did the Perth season and you're doing the Sydney season, and it's quite different for both of us because I was calling to a lighting operator and you're operating, is that right?

[3:36] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I'm operating, which during tech I called and then went into operating. So it's weird because when you call it, you have to sort of call it ahead of time to make sure that the lighting operator presses go at the right time. So then when you're actually operating yourself, then you've got to do it at the normal time. So it sort of played in my head a little bit for a couple shows, but then I got into the swing of it. Do you have a favorite point in Once where you're like, oh yeah, that is icing on the cake, that one?

[4:04] Erin Coubrough: Oh, two points. The end of North Strand, which is a like a snap from the whole stage being lit to just around the piano. Every time I'm like, yes, like if I just absolutely nail it. And the end of a patapada, same thing. Yes. Goes to the snap to the other side of the stage. So it's like when you really nail those cues, you're like, oh, okay, I got it.

[4:27] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah. It's like you get such an adrenaline high.

[4:29] Erin Coubrough: Yeah.

[4:30] Joshua Broadbent: Yes, yes. I remember actually having to call you for gold because the count, it's one, one, one, two, one. And I just sat there with it. I'm looking at the book going, okay, I've got it. No, I've lost it. No, I'm still gone. I came back. And then I was like, where does that go? And I have a video that you sent me of buying the album and you conducting it for me. And do you know what? That really helped.

[4:58] Erin Coubrough: I'm so glad.

[4:58] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my gosh. I was like, Josh is gonna think I'm so silly doing this. But like the visually, like being able to kind of conduct yourself through that was so helpful. And yeah, no, like I've been stage managing for 12 years, and even when I first looked at gold, I was like, uh oh, like what is this? I have had to put the numbers on the whole of that score section, like one, one, one, two, because I was like, yeah, as soon as I like just phase out, I would completely miss it.

[5:28] Erin Coubrough: I love those cues, the end of gold as well, like all those snap cues too.

[5:32] Joshua Broadbent: Oh, it's so good. It's so satisfying.

[5:35] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, they're just like the stamps and oh god. And do you know what? I don't mind operating as well.

[5:40] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[5:41] Erin Coubrough: I did a lot of operating and lighting designing and stuff growing up in community theatre, so it's sort of natural to me. The only difference is that I'm pressing go on the spacebar on a Mac rather than go on the lighting console.

[5:54] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, yeah. Like I know why that is. But do you think the listeners know why that is?

[6:00] Erin Coubrough: Well, this is the thing. We've been on a break for so long. The listeners probably didn't even know I'm doing Once at the moment. They're following my other Instagram. But the reason for it is because I also operate some sound cues and some AV projection cues as well. There was a discussion when we first got into tech about me operating the AV and the sound cues on the laptop and the console for the lighting.

[6:22] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my gosh.

[6:22] Erin Coubrough: And then I looked at Brushka's story, which is basically like LX, LX and AV, LX, LX, and AV, like constantly, and I just looked at it and I was like, I'm not having my hands split between two desks to press things. Sometimes one at one time and sometimes things together. I was like, no, no, no, let's just put it all together. Plus the file was already there built, so I was like, just do that.

[6:44] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, totally. Can I just say that like calling lighting and trying to operate the AV sound cues around that was mental. It was literally like patting my head and rubbing my stomach. Like it was I had to split my brain in two and I was just on book. I'd never looked up to see what she was doing. I just wanted to make sure the surtitles were okay.

[7:06] Erin Coubrough: I have never looked up in that. I don't know what she does, when she does it. I've actually written the cues on both sides of the paper, so obviously my cues are usually on the right-hand side, so they go off to the right. But then on the left-hand side, I've actually also written them above the line because it's like I don't have time to quickly look to the right, follow the line to go where the script is because it moves so quickly.

[7:28] Joshua Broadbent: So quickly.

[7:29] Erin Coubrough: So if I need to make sure I haven't missed anything, so I've now got them on both sides, which is so, so handy.

[7:35] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah. I actually retyped the script for that scene because I just needed the space in between. Like she would talk so fast and it was so tiny in the original script that I just couldn't fit all the cues in between.

[7:47] Erin Coubrough: So I did the exact same.

[7:50] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my gosh, got up. I'm actually really glad I split it up into these sections. I actually, when I got the prompt copy, because the prompt copy I have wasn't yours, it was one from 2021 when they did the season. I actually did a digital prompt copy, I redid it. Not the cues, but just cut the score up, cut the script up because I don't like getting to points in the script where you've got to flip a page really quickly. Like if the cue can be on the previous page, then it's for me, it's better.

[8:20] Erin Coubrough: I did the same for Charlie in the Chocolate Factory. The moments in Charlie in the Chocolate Factory where you met each of the golden ticket winners. There was like two lines of a score, and then you'd have to flip and still be counting. I was like, why is this not all on the one page? So I did the same thing, and it's those tricks that like honestly save a lot of brain power trying to call a show or splitting your hands across two desks, yeah, or calling pressing buttons.

[8:45] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I think that's like the most important thing about a prompt copy is especially what I say to new people coming into the industry or even students, like this is your Bible, and yes, someone might have to pick it up and read it one day. But if you can help yourself by, you know, putting in little cheats or putting in like, oh, pick up from here if you can't, you know, read a certain section of score, just like a pick-up point here, or we're gonna do some blocking over this point. Like, there are just little ways to, you know, do it your way, and that's okay.

[9:16] Erin Coubrough: I think that's totally fine. I mean, I don't tend too much now have to circle things within a score because I can't read a score. But I now can see the basic structure of it within the music. But I remember Wizard of Oz. If you look at my book, it is just things circled constantly of like just here. If you can't find it, you're here. If you can't, but that was my first call, so obviously I was really nervous, but gosh, I'm gonna replay this to my first year score reading class and be like, I told you it's gonna work, we're gonna get there.

[9:43] Erin Coubrough: You will, you absolutely will get there.

[9:47] Joshua Broadbent: Now, speaking of your wonderful career, so obviously you are currently lecturing stage management at WAPA.

[9:54] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, it's like I've gone back to my roots. How is that? What is that experience like?

[9:58] Erin Coubrough: Oh, I actually love it. Like, and I didn't think I would. Like I've throughout my career having some comments on board and mentoring them and yet teaching the differences between like acting shows and ballet and musical theatre and everything like that has been really awesome to build that one-on-one relationship and usually those comments come and work for me as ASMs as well. But yeah, to go back to WAPA and kind of help people build their stage management skills from the ground up has just been like I really feel like I'm passing a torch, you know, and I'm really able to guide them in the right direction.

[10:38] Joshua Broadbent: And especially compared to what our industry is now compared to when I was studying, like there's such a shift in it. And so to be able to bring that to the course as well and just, hey, this is the industry standard and it's standard today. And I know that because I'm in the industry today, you know, that's five.

[10:55] Erin Coubrough: Yeah.

[10:55] Joshua Broadbent: Can I ask, was that like similar when you went to NIDA? Like did you find that industry was so different to what NIDA was teaching?

[11:03] Erin Coubrough: Oh yeah.

[11:04] Erin Coubrough: Yeah. I mean we had the wonderful Mary Ben who is an amazing musical theatre stage manager and had a huge career in stage management. And she was always bringing guest lectures in and stuff to tell us about the industry and all of that sort of stuff. But you sort of did feel that little bit of disconnect. There was very much the NIDA way of how you did it there. And then when you go and you know observe a call or go into a circummet or whatever you'd go, oh this is this is different. And it's probably the hardest thing for people to break out of is the university way. You know, going into your first professional show outside of university you sort of have to forget a lot of what you've learned and just be open and accepting of all those new things because it's just it's so different I guess.

[11:52] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[11:52] Erin Coubrough: I totally agree. When I did one of my first shows it was almost like I had to unlearn it to then build it back up again. And in the back of my mind I always thought like, you know, oh why isn't this quite like why isn't this issue resolving itself within the rehearsal period or within like reduction week or anything. I go, oh it's because I could add that to the schedule in this way. Or we're gonna do a cast change like this. And you know, those, yeah, it is about building up those tools to be able to then draw on them in the industry, you know?

[12:25] Erin Coubrough: Yeah.

[12:26] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[12:26] Erin Coubrough: Like I don't want to go into the industry and be like, this is the walk away.

[12:29] Joshua Broadbent: Like, you know.

[12:30] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, no, and that's the thing. I have seen people come out of NIDA and do that exact same thing.

[12:35] Joshua Broadbent: Well, this is the way we did it at NIDA, and it's like, okay, I understand and I appreciate that. I was there myself, but it's not the only way.

[12:43] Erin Coubrough: This is kind of what this podcast started with for Kelly and I. You'll hear every episode, there's not one way we do something the same. We do things differently, but yet we get the same job done and achieved. And I think that's what like the best mindset for people leaving university to go into a career in the industry is just to be open and accept change and I think um like once you leave uni, like don't lose that learning mindset or that like learning motivation.

[13:10] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, I really encourage my students to remember that like you don't have to be perfect today, like you're learning this for the first time, and we need to get rid of this like perfectionism mindset, which I think um in stage management, it's easy to fall into that. It it's easy to try and always be perfect and always be on top of it, but it's not sustainable. So I try and say to them, you know, instead of thinking as a perfectionist, think about mastering this skill that we have, and as you say, like pick and choose it's from other stage managers, bits of your learning, bits of like trial and error throughout your career. It shouldn't just be a oh three years and I'm done and I'm amazing now, you know.

[13:55] Joshua Broadbent: Although we are amazing, whatever.

[13:56] Erin Coubrough: I don't look at that.

[13:58] Joshua Broadbent: You're so right.

[13:59] Erin Coubrough: All right, so moving back into to your career since you left university, you've gone from, you know, state theatre to touring with musicals to working in contemporary dance and ballet. What are the differences in stage management?

[14:15] Erin Coubrough: Like how I mean there could be a million things, you don't need to mention them all. How does it differentiate between the sort of different genres of theatre?

[14:23] Erin Coubrough: Oh my gosh, what a question. Um yeah, I started working in stage management at Black Swan, and just to give the bit of context around that, I um was employed to be the ASM for a year for a whole season, and then my second show there, I got bumped up to stage manager because my stage manager got sick four days out of production week. It freaked me out. Looking back, I was like 21 years old, I you know, very green still, um, getting fit into this role. And um, yeah, it was incredible like to just jump in, you know, and I had a very supportive director who really empowered me to take the role on fully.

[15:10] Erin Coubrough: And um, yeah, but I think like going from that where drama you tend to be, I don't know about other theatre companies over East, but Black Swan, like, you know, you're always it's always you as a team against the show. Like the show's not gonna make itself. So in terms of resources, you really had to pull and you really had to drive to create this show. Whereas when I got into musical theatre, it was very different because everything came in a shipping container from you know, the UK or um the US or whatever.

[15:46] Erin Coubrough: And um, there were just so many people as part of the team, especially in stage management, that it just kind of it took me a little bit to understand the difference in roles between ASM for drama than ASMing for musical theatre. And like it no way is wrong when no way is right. It's just like a really different industry to go into.

[16:10] Erin Coubrough: And then after that, when I went to the UK, there are differences again. Um like the stage manager I had on The Queen, they took on a role almost like a head mechanist in Australia, like they were on deck calling, you know, um fly cues or winch cues, or you know, all the kind of cues that a head mech would call to do a scene change behind a cloth. Uh they were controlling all of that, and they were the person who when I was calling the show, I would go, are we set? Yep, cool, okay, let's go, sort of thing.

[16:43] Erin Coubrough: So that was really interesting. And then oh my gosh, going from musical theatre into ballet. Wow. Um it was a journey, and I only laugh because I applied for the role at West Australian Ballet because I thought, oh yeah, I can read a score, and I've worked for ballet before, and you know, it's they're kind of a mix between the two where we sometimes get shows brought in, but we're sometimes building shows, so we need to go sourcing.

[17:11] Erin Coubrough: Like it's kind of the meeting of both worlds. But when I first got a score, it was Last or Feed, and I don't know why you're gonna laugh. Um, but like when I looked at the score and there was no lyrics, I was like, oh my god, what am I doing?

[17:30] Joshua Broadbent: I would be in the same place.

[17:32] Erin Coubrough: Like wild. Cause um, I know you've mentioned that you don't read music, I don't read music either, and I thought I was pretty good at following the score until I got Last or Feed, and I was like, Oh my gosh, what have I got myself into? But um, yeah, you just gotta like duddy, study, study that thing and try and pick up the points in the music, like all the pick up points that you need to kind of identify.

[17:58] Erin Coubrough: But now that I've done ballet and you know, I think, you know, my score reading's pretty high up then. Um, having done quite a few, having worked for the ballet for three and a half years that I did.

[18:09] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, so like being able to go, Oh yes, I can see that a padded is now, you know, an adagio, then the male variation, the female variation, the coda, like just those little tips and tricks where you go, Oh, okay, I can identify in the music that that seems an acting scene where Giselle's mum is telling her to not dance anymore and just stuff like that.

[18:31] Joshua Broadbent: I know that's really random, but

[18:32] Erin Coubrough: No, no, like that's the thing I I've never done a dance show and yeah, I'd be in that same position as you if I was to look at that score.

[18:41] Joshua Broadbent: I'd be like the words.

[18:43] Erin Coubrough: I'd probably try to make up words, make up a song within it to to make it make sense.

[18:48] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[18:48] Erin Coubrough: Um as you said, it's it's whatever you need to do to help you understand the score.

[18:54] Erin Coubrough: Totally. Yeah. During um I can't remember what show it was, but the head of music at the ballet and I we would sit next to each other so we could kind of identify dance moves together and like go, Oh, we're gonna call this the Harry Potter move because it looks like they're casting a spell.

[19:12] Erin Coubrough: Stuff like that. And then when you get into contemporary dance as well, it's the same sort of thing. What I actually do is I block the dance, but I write out all my own weird dance moves.

[19:23] Erin Coubrough: Like you know, I might be like, you know, this is called Wi-Fi because they look like they're searching for something. Or, you know, this is the elephant or the world, or you know, and it's just like, yeah, about picking up those, you know, pickup points and going, I know what that says in my head, you know, what that looks like.

[19:44] Joshua Broadbent: And then you went back to Black Swan for once.

[19:47] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, yeah. So um when I left the ballet, it was very much a okay, I feel like we gotta transition now out of stage management. Um so I uh left the ballet and I went with Perth Festival for a bit on their opening event of the festival, which unfortunately got cancelled, but that was okay. It was kind of the role was within the programming producing team, which was really exciting.

[20:13] Erin Coubrough: Um, and then after that I was just like, you know what? Like let's just play it by ear. And so I worked on Barraking for the Umpire, which was another Black Swan show that unfortunately got cancelled. Um, and then when Once came along though, I was like, Yeah, we're gonna do that one. Come on. I saw it on Broadway in like 2012, I think it was, and it was so amazing. It was definitely my heart was telling me to do that one.

[20:40] Erin Coubrough: And it's such a beautiful show too. Oh, you know those shows where you just sit back and you watch the cast and you're just in awe. You just go, how are you how are you doing that? How are you roller skating and playing the violin at the same time? Well, moving around eleven other people, a piano and for us uh at Darlinghurst, the audience are in the front row, like they're not in a presentation.

[21:00] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my god, like they were for you, so there's so many layers of it.

[21:04] Erin Coubrough: Oh crazy. I used to think that the ballet all the time as well. Like watching the dancers do their thing, just they're amazing. They're athletes, you know. I I don't think they're appreciated as much as like football stars or you know, gold medalists and all that, but it's such like a powerhouse performances, you know.

[21:25] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[21:26] Erin Coubrough: It's their life too.

[21:27] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, they put so much time and energy into it.

[21:30] Erin Coubrough: I watched a video from um the Royal Opera House in London, and one of the dancers was saying, like, this is how I communicate with people. This is how I express what I'm feeling. And I just like I felt that so much, you know.

[21:44] Joshua Broadbent: Gosh, art is amazing.

[21:47] Erin Coubrough: Art is amazing.

[21:48] Joshua Broadbent: So you're leaving stage management or maybe not fully, you're like you're just sort of taking a side step.

[21:53] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, yeah.

[21:55] Joshua Broadbent: What are you planning on doing?

[21:56] Erin Coubrough: Oh gosh, who knows what the future holds. But um I'm really enjoying my teaching at the moment and I'm studying my MBA as well in arts and cultural management, which I'm finding very enlightening and very exciting.

[22:10] Erin Coubrough: Um yeah, after that, I'm not sure whether I go into producing or um even I know it sounds I don't know, a bit odd, but like going to like a government sector or something like that, or even I don't know, like maybe be an E D one day, a boss lady, who knows?

[22:29] Erin Coubrough: So yeah, I'm not too stressed about it yet. I feel like you pick up so many valuable skills as a stage manager in people management, in you know, organisation and all and all those different things, and then you know, you going back as a lecturer to train that next generation also gives you more skills and more value that really you can go anywhere within any field, but it of course anywhere in the arts, depending on where you want to go.

[22:59] Joshua Broadbent: I'm so excited for for you and like to find out just what what the future holds for you.

[23:05] Erin Coubrough: Oh thanks I am too yeah it's just I don't know there's an open door you know what I mean so yeah and you're right you're so right like the skills we pick up as stage management are so transferable and sometimes it's hard to express that to people and to explain it to people but I really think once you get in there people are going to realize like oh this person has a lot of value and they're really important to you know the um the goals and mission of the company so well fingers crossed well Erin you are really valuable and have importance to my life because of because of everything you've you've taught me and showed me working together and even when we weren't working together any you know I've called you many times be like hi help and I I really appreciate that and I hope the audience has taken a lot out of what we've discussed today um and I think maybe we should just take a little break and have a little little interval.

[24:04] Erin Coubrough: I love a Kit Kat so having a break is good.

[24:07] Joshua Broadbent: Right I'll go buy you one let's go welcome back to act two oh my god that Kit Kat was wonderful the best the best I nearly bought a second one to eat during the show, but I thought the audience doesn't want to hear me crunching, so post show.

[24:35] Joshua Broadbent: So we have two questions from the audience today that are very similar, and Erin's gonna do us the lovely joy in reading them out.

[24:41] Erin Coubrough: Okay, so our first question comes from Ashley. She says she doesn't feel confident or knowledgeable enough to work in the industry as a stage manager yet, and was wondering if we had any recommendations about how to gain knowledge and whether it's through internships or studying.

[24:59] Joshua Broadbent: What do you think, Josh?

[25:00] Erin Coubrough: Wow, I mean, this is something we were talking about before we started recording, and it's really hard leaving a degree and feeling confident and that you know that you can go out and ace it. And it's very similar to what you said in Act One, we're not looking for perfection. It's okay to make mistakes, it's okay to learn on the job. And I mean, when we did Wizard of Oz together, as you said, you're in the deputy position for the first time. I was in an ASM position for the first time, and I definitely screwed up a couple times, and you've had to pull me up on it. It's really important that that happened because if it didn't, well, I would have kept doing it the same way. And it shocked me and went, Oh, I thought I was confident, I thought I knew what I was doing, but oh okay, I've still got to learn things.

And that's when I sort of opened up and went, okay, well, what more do I need to learn? What can I take from all these different people to learn it? Doing shows, working on shows, whether that's in an internship or as a full-time position, is the best way to continue to build that confidence and that knowledge. Would you say the same?

[26:05] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my god, 100%.

[26:06] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, I definitely like even in um what I learned so much during Wizard as well, is like being able to give feedback. And what I've learned really recently, actually, is that to be clear is kind and to be unclear is unkind. And my friend Lil's gonna laugh at me for that because it's a Brene Brown quote. Um, but that's okay. Um, that what what Brene means by that is that it is better to be upfront and honest and still compassionate, still like have empathy for people, but still like be clear with them and not be unclear, you know, because that doesn't really help anyone. We're all in this industry to learn and to gain more knowledge and to do the best job we can. Not saying that it's always going to be perfect, but if we were on our way to the Olympics, you know, if I was a swimmer or something, I would keep training, keep training, keep training, trying to get better, and I kind of link that to stage management as well.

Like with every show you do, you're just getting better and better and better. So coming back to the question whether like doing internships or studying a full degree, I think it's very catered to the knowledge you already have, perhaps. But whatever way you go, remembering to take that learner's mentality with you in whatever direction you go, I think is probably the most important thing, and that's gonna allow you to like gain that knowledge, as Ashley says.

[27:47] Joshua Broadbent: Is it the same in WA?

[27:49] Erin Coubrough: Uh, yeah, so at WAPA we have three year groups. Uh, after first year, you can walk away with a diploma, after second year, you can walk away with an advanced diploma, and after third year, which is actually like three and a half, you walk away with the bachelor. So even if you did want to try studying, there is still like exit points that you can take throughout there if you weren't quite sure that oh, I don't know if studying's right for me or if I'm more you know suited to online interning experiences. I do have to say though that with internships we do need to be a little bit cautious only because a lot of the time your learning institution or your uni or your TAFE, they'll provide the insurance for you on the job when you are doing an internship. Whereas if you were to walk into a company and say hey I want to do an internship that means they need to pay for insurance for you. So that's just always something to consider as well.

[28:48] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah and I don't find that a lot of shows offer internships to people that aren't currently studying as well.

[28:56] Erin Coubrough: So it can be hard if you want to do those internships to do it without currently being in a degree.

[29:02] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah very true. I think that going that stage to listen to a call or just to shadow once in a while or something like I think that's okay. I think well actually I did do that when I um went to Sydney my first time I was taking one of the Black Swan shows over because it was a GoPro with Sydney Theatre Company and that's actually where I got a lot of contacts with musical theatre people because I went and listened to the Call of Legally Blonde and that was how I met the amazing Katie Malicari and the team on Legally and through that is how I met people who then employed me on Wicked.

[29:37] Erin Coubrough: So yeah.

[29:38] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah I hope that helps.

[29:39] Erin Coubrough: I love listening to a show call. You just learn so much from them and the way that other people call a show. Because once you're up and calling a show, you don't really hear someone else do it. So it's good to hear the way other people do it and continuing to learn, taking those skills from those people around you.

[29:53] Joshua Broadbent: Totally.

[29:54] Erin Coubrough: And also learning about how um the show itself is constructed. Like, oh, why are you calling that auto cue before that fly cue? Or are they together? Or you know, there's just so many elements and different ways to do things.

[30:08] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, and finding out those tips and tricks is pretty useful. Let's move on to the second part of this this same sort of topic, which is from Andrew.

[30:18] Erin Coubrough: Andrew is trying to figure out the timeline of going from small independent and community shows outside a day job to picking up full-time contracts. Is there a timeline or should he be applying for lots of things and see what happens? He also mentions his main goal is to work on musicals.

[30:37] Joshua Broadbent: Oh, what better two people didn't know?

[30:38] Erin Coubrough: We know a little bit.

[30:39] Joshua Broadbent: We know a little bit about that. I was in the same position once I left uni.

[30:45] Erin Coubrough: So I went and did a second during my final year of university on Matilda and for the City of Sydney for New Year's Eve and I EDA for Opera on the Harbour.

[30:53] Joshua Broadbent: You did three seconds.

[30:54] Erin Coubrough: Yeah, I did three in the year, as well as doing the two sets of play productions that NIDA put on, because that's sort of you have to do those, but then you can fill the rest of the year with secondments, which is really great.

[31:05] Joshua Broadbent: Wow.

[31:06] Erin Coubrough: Out of those three, at the end of that year I went back and worked with Matilda as a swing props technician, but that was only for two months because then they left Sydney. And I went back and did the City of Sydney New Year's Eve again, but that was only for two months because New Year's Eve is only a particular time of the year. I was actually working on both of them at the same time.

[31:24] Joshua Broadbent: Wow.

[31:24] Erin Coubrough: As well as that, I picked up a casual job at the aquarium.

[31:27] Joshua Broadbent: Oh, cool.

[31:29] Erin Coubrough: Yeah.

[31:29] Joshua Broadbent: I worked at the aquarium from when I graduated the end of 2015 until I started working on Wizard of Oz in October twenty seventeen. And in that time I did a couple of little things, a little things at ATYP and for some other people. And it really took me that long to get to get onto a musical properly. And it was because I did audition work for GFO that then I got to meet with the right people, network with the right producers and the team, and then that's how they then introduced me to the stage manager of Wizard of Oz, and then that's how I got there.

[32:06] Joshua Broadbent: So for me it was quite a lengthy time in my mind, but I know other people that have left university and gone straight on to straight onto a big show or a big event or whatever.

[32:16] Erin Coubrough: So I personally say there's no timeline for it. You should be applying for whatever you can and just keep going. Don't give up and doing what we've said with Ashley, going and listening to calls and doing observations and try to do internships if they allow it, so that you can continue building that knowledge in the time that you're not working on professional shows.

[32:40] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I completely agree totally.

[32:43] Erin Coubrough: I guess like in terms of musicals, I guess because the way I got into them was kind of by doing drama shows first and then connecting with people through that to, you know, get put onto a musical then. Um so like I understand that yes, like there are stage managers who are very, you know, oh I love working on musicals and that's what I want to do. I completely get it, I really do. But also like if you do want to open up your world a bit, like feel free to go to the opera and to you know, Sydney Theatre Company or you know, any of the major players or even the non-major players like Darlinghurst as well, you know, because now you've got credit to your name as well, being the stage manager for once.

And so it is about yeah don't don't shut any doors off you know and it's not like just the big players who do produce musicals as well like um Opera Australia doing Phantom at the moment and um yeah so basically there's no timeline you've just got to keep going don't give up if it's something you're really passionate about just keep following it and your time will come.

[33:49] Joshua Broadbent: And don't compare your timeline to other people as well because I think that's a trap we kind of get you know set ourselves up for a little bit you know like we're all on our own journeys and you know yes someone might be working on a big musical already but you know they might actually only be working as a stage manager for three years or something. You don't know what the future holds so they might be retiring like me.

[34:14] Joshua Broadbent: Well Erin thank you so much for for being our very first guest on Whispers in the Wings I really appreciate you jumping on and recording today and and I hope our audience have got a lot of really valuable things out of everything that we've discussed.

[34:28] Erin Coubrough: I do have one question I want to ask you before we wrap up for today now we did an episode a couple of months ago god it's been quite some time about toolboxes our stage management kits and I want to know what's your one most valuable item in your SM kit what's that one thing that you you absolutely love.

[34:47] Erin Coubrough: Um I think always going into a new show with like an open mindset and like that um yeah willingness to learn which we've spoken about so much this episode but if I had to pick one like resource, one thing, it would be XL. You know that, Josh.

[34:47] Joshua Broadbent: It would be XL.

[35:06] Erin Coubrough: Yes, you are the queen of XL.

[35:10] Erin Coubrough: It makes my life so easy. It makes my job so easy. And yes, like I can make some really crazy documents that take me hours. But I tell you, if a split track were to happen on once when I was doing it, I was ready.

[35:26] Joshua Broadbent: Yes, XL is great.

[35:28] Erin Coubrough: PowerPoint's my new thing as well.

[35:30] Joshua Broadbent: I love it.

[35:32] Erin Coubrough: Yeah. You ever need a PowerPoint? Hit me up.

[35:36] Joshua Broadbent: Okay, well, thank you, Erin, again so much for joining us today. If anyone has any questions for you or wants to follow your your journey, where can they find you?

[35:45] Erin Coubrough: Oh, uh, probably on Insta. Um, it's just my name, Erin Kubra. And or add me on Facebook, really. Just to send me a message first. Um, but no, I'm really passionate about I'm really passionate about empowering and mentoring the new people coming into our industry and into our profession. So if anyone was like struggling to find their way into the industry or you know, wanted to know a bit more about stage management or wanted to be directed to some resources, like I am here for it.

[36:18] Erin Coubrough: I love it. So yeah, please don't be shy. And I've had such a fun time, Josh.

[36:23] Joshua Broadbent: Thank you so much.

[36:25] Erin Coubrough: That's so lovely.

[36:27] Joshua Broadbent: You're so welcome.

[36:29] Erin Coubrough: Well, thank you again, and I hope we'll see you again on another episode sometime soon.

[36:34] Erin Coubrough: Fingers crossed.

[36:35] Joshua Broadbent: Okay, chukas, babe.

[36:36] Erin Coubrough: Sugars.

[36:37] Joshua Broadbent: And if you'd like to ask a question for a future episode of Whispers in the Wings, you can head over to Instagram to our page there, Whispers in the Wings and send it by DM.

[36:45] Joshua Broadbent: You can email us at Whispers in the Wings Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you everyone so much for listening. We'll see you next time.

[36:49] Erin Coubrough: Bye bye.