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[0:09] Joshua Broadbent: Hello, you are listening to a brand new episode of Whispers in the Wings. My name is Joshua Broadbent, and I am your host, and I am thrilled to be returning to your ears to celebrate the launch of season two. This season we are shaking things up by welcoming a vast array of creatives who bring their magic to theatre. From stage managers to producers and everyone in between, we will dive deeper into the vibrant tapestry of the theatrical world. I'm also very excited to share that Whispers in the Wings is now a part of the Broadway Podcast Network, joining an incredible group of shows dedicated to celebrating the artistry and wonder of stage. For our first episode of season two, I am joined by senior production manager Darren Kowacki.

Now, before I bring Darren into the studio, let me read out his bio so you understand a little bit more about Darren and the incredible work he has done over the last 20 years. After graduating from the Victorian College of the Arts, Darren has spent the last 20 years working in the entertainment industry in both creative and production roles. Musical credits include National Tours of Priscilla Queen of the Desert for MCG, School of Rock International Tour for GWB, King Kong for Global Creatures, The King and I, Dirty Dancing, We Will Rock You, A Funny Thing That Happened on the Way to the Forum, An Officer and a Gentleman for GFO, Singing in the Rain for TEG Dainty. Other projects include Velvet, David Attenborough, Hugh Jackman, Broadway to Oz, Not Now, Not Ever, for MCG.

Darren has also worked as a stage manager for companies including Moult House Theatre, Sydney Theatre Company, State Theatre Company, South Australia, Opera Australia, and Victorian Opera. Darren is currently a senior production manager at CVP Events, Film and Television, working on a wide variety of projects around Australia, and is also the video associate designer for &Juliet the Musical. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today, Darren. It's so lovely to have you here.

[1:58] Darren Kowacki: Ah, I'm very happy to be here. Thank you.

[2:01] Joshua Broadbent: Now, I've just read through your bio and you have a really wide range of experience from stage management, technical theatre, and you know, video associate designing on &Juliet. What got you interested in theatre?

[2:15] Darren Kowacki: Probably from a very young age, like a lot of stories start. I was into like the performing arts and my parents kind of pushed me to, you know, be a musician or be an actor, and I went to drama school and all that sort of stuff. But as soon as I stepped into a theater or started to see shows from a really young age, I wanted to do the production side. It was very clear. So that was kind of my goal as a really young kid is just to do technical things, get into lighting and sound, and it wasn't really till I was, you know, into late high school when I heard of what a stage manager is, and I read old textbooks I could find in my school library, which probably would have been way outdated. And just was like, what is a stage manager? And so the more I read, the more I was like, that's what I want to do, and I just did everything I could to make sure I could actually achieve it, I guess.

[3:06] Darren Kowacki: The same thing for me growing up, watching a lot of theater, seeing, you know, what was happening on stage. I thought I wanted to be an actor, so I sort of was starting to pursue that. But then once I got into my first show, I went, oh, who are all of these other people running around backstage that the audience don't see?

[3:22] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, exactly. And it's also that like I'm always like anything in life, I want to know how it works, how it's done. You know, I always watch those TV shows, like how's it made and whatnot. So when I, you know, when I go and see a show, I want to know how they achieved everything. And that's I guess why I have this passion for like, you know, how things are done from a technical sense through to, yeah, the stage management side. But yeah, lighting, sound, video, all of it. I'm always really, really keen to know how it's done. And I find that having a good understanding of each of the other departments makes you a better stage manager or production manager as well. Would you agree?

[3:59] Darren Kowacki: Oh, absolutely. I talk about this a lot whenever I talk to like young aspiring stage managers or students and whatnot, and that you know, the number one rule is your knowledge and learning never stops. But the more you can understand what other departments have to do or go through does help you as a stage manager, you know, purely from just a scheduling sense, you know. Like if you're trying to run, you know, whether if it's like, you know, quite a large show, you might have a lot of crew and a lot of like complex things up in the air that you've got to juggle as a stage manager. And if you can understand what you're asking of other people, it does help a lot for sure.

[4:42] Darren Kowacki: I admire the stage managers, and it's sort of the person that I inspire to be myself that asks those questions of those technical people in other departments. And this season of the podcast, I'm sort of moving away from just focusing on stage managers and starting to bring sound lighting because I think it's a really valuable insight into who they are and how they operate on shows, but how we as stage managers collaborate together because that is what theatre is, it's a collaborative process, and you can't be there for yourself, you're there for everyone.

[5:13] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, for sure. And you know, it comes down into, you know, people always ask me like what's in a stage manager's toolbox and whatnot, and you know, you get stuck down into, you know, physically what's in your kit or kits, you know, you might have more than one. But the amount of times I've been in a rehearsal room where, you know, it's usually just stage management and props, right? You don't have mechs and a lighting department or a sound department you can kind of call on really quickly. So, you know, the amount of times we've had to set up, you know, sound systems on our own or do a bit of carpentry work on some scenery in the rehearsal room and come up with, you know, ideas and little fix-its to kind of keep rehearsals going.

I think it's really valuable to kind of know that. And when we did a School of Rock tour, I remember asking like my SM team, you know, do you guys know anything about like, you know, back line instruments or sound? And the answer was kind of like not really. I'm like, that's fine. Well, we're gonna kind of learn together. And I was kind of showing them how to plug in instruments and set up little PAs and whatnot, which became so valuable because as we did that tour around the world, it was mainly left to the stage management department to do it because there was no one else to do it because everyone was too busy working on the actual show. And we had to have that kind of knowledge, that basic knowledge, like you know, there are still experts we use to do all the show, but just knowing how to plug stuff in and get it working, you know, it was invaluable. So I'm always a big advocate of the more you learn, the better stage manager you'll be.

[6:47] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, and I find that because for once with Dellinghurst Theatre Company, I'm the stage manager but also the lighting operator. So we don't have a touring or a head electrician that's in every day, and you know, if I need help, the venue's got people, but I need to be able to troubleshoot live as the show's going to try and figure out what's happening there in lighting, which is something that I have a basic knowledge in, and I mean I appreciate that before I sort of went into stage management, lighting is where I was sort of focusing towards. So that's really helped because I'm finding a lot of newer, you know, smaller shows, smaller theatre companies, like Darlow. You are sort of jack of all trades, you are doing everything. And even for once, my ASM Jesse is in charge of all of the instruments backstage. We have 16 guitars. We've got a Radio Mike Tech as a sound team on it, but she during rehearsals was yeah, helping get all of that gear set up.

[7:43] Darren Kowacki: That's it, yeah. You know, like if you think about like back in the day when I used to do a lot of state theater shows and whatnot, you know, you'd be on the road with, you know, a crew of three or four. So, you know, you would help out, you know, rigging the lights, you know, at some regional theatre with the one lighting guy touring, or you know, if the prop breaks, there's not a props department out the back, they're back in Melbourne or wherever you've started the tour. So, you know, you have to know how to use some power tools and whatnot. And I'm certainly not saying that like, you know, a stage manager needs to know every single thing about every, like that's just impossible, right? But the more you learn, I mean, it makes you more employable, if you can kind of do those extra tasks, it helps out on shows, it takes the stress off a little bit, you know.

But there is a fine line, which I also discuss a lot with other stage managers, of you know, how much is too much, and you never want to be in a position where your skills is stopping someone else from being employed. Like I'm always like if the show needs a particular role, like you know, we should be employing that person. But of course, the reality of certain productions or certain theater companies or whatever is that there isn't the money to have 10 crew, so we all have to kind of chip in. And like you say, like you know, even larger shows now, like you're operating Q lab or lighting, like it's quite a common thing, and it's all over the world that way. So we're definitely seeing that sort of shift within the industry.

[9:15] Darren Kowacki: And I mean, you talked about learning from stage management books. What's some changes that you've noticed over your career over the 20 years so far, and you know, I guess from those books as well that are moving in a more positive direction?

[9:30] Darren Kowacki: Well, I don't want to sound old, but when I went to uni, we didn't have laptops. Yeah, of course. You know, like we had a computer center at the college, then you'd take your floppy disk drive and do your paperwork. Then I can only imagine what that paperwork looked like. For me, it's the technology, like, you know, I remember like doing some of my first professional shows and whatnot, like when I joined Moldhouse, and being able to have a laptop in front of me in the rehearsal room meant that I could still do all the things the stage manager needs to do in the room, but I could be, you know, communicating with people all around Australia on the production and sourcing props, writing my schedule, constantly updating my rehearsal report for the day, so I didn't have to do it at the end of the day, and that's just grown to other things, you know, walking around with iPads with different apps that might help you on your show, having, you know, GoPros and stuff to record the rehearsal room straight to your laptop.

So at the end of the day, if you need to go back and check something or write plots for a crew, you've got all these recordings and stuff on you. So I would say definitely that the technology keeps advancing more and more, but you can actually put it to such good use as a stage manager by using these sorts of things.

[10:48] Darren Kowacki: And I'm still learning more off other people. Like, you know, always see someone with a new app, and I'm always really excited to see how they're using it. And is that something I can use kind of going forward?

[10:58] Joshua Broadbent: I definitely need to learn more about using technology within stage management myself. Like I have my iPad and I always take it with me everywhere, and I'm like, I'm gonna use this today, and then I end up putting it down somewhere and, you know, forgetting to do it and then having to update things later, or you know, I definitely think someone needs to do a, you know, a stage management course on how to utilize like different sort of services and apps and all of that sort of stuff, because I would absolutely be there.

[11:27] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have no idea if that now gets taught at university, and you know, it's always that funny thing of you know, I was lucky enough to have three different stage management lecturers at uni that were kind of all came from three different fields, so which meant three completely different point of views of how to stage manage, which was exciting and also frustrating at the same time because you're still trying to learn, right? And that's another thing I say to students as well, like whenever I'm doing classes and whatnot, is you know, almost like at the start of it going, whatever I'm gonna tell you is kind of how I've been taught or how I've learned to do it and adapt it. I'm telling you right now, this is gonna be probably different to how your teacher's telling you, or how another colleague's telling you. So it's not a gospel in any way. We all do it a bit differently, but yeah, we're all achieving the same outcome.

[12:21] Darren Kowacki: So many ways to skin a cat, I guess.

[12:24] Joshua Broadbent: Exactly. There's so many ways to do things. It's once you break out of universities when you start learning and you continue to learn as your career goes. Like if you get to a point in a role in a position where you go, I don't feel like I'm learning anything anymore, which I was starting to get as an assistant stage manager. I was like, I know everything and I just want to be challenged and pushed a little bit. So that's sort of where I've now started the last two years sort of moving towards more stage management roles. But that isn't to say that there was also more things that I could have learned.

[12:57] Darren Kowacki: Oh absolutely and that's why I say learning never stops like, you know, if only they taught me at uni what a cast change was, I had no idea until I did my first musical and I was like, how do you work this out? What is this magical document that solves all the world's problems? And the answer is there isn't really one but there is definitely things you can do in paperwork you need to have to make sure you can keep the show running. But yeah I had no idea what it was and just have to kind of ask friends in the industry to go, what is a cast change? How does this work?

[13:29] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah now you just need people to actually read them.

[13:31] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, yeah, I mean that you know I always, it's hard because you know as a stage manager you spend so much time making documents and information sheets and whatnot and you've just got to live with the knowledge that not everyone's gonna read it. So they're gonna ask you and and that's okay and you never want to be that guy when someone would ask you backstage before a show like who's on tonight and you go well read the cast change. In the back of the head you might be like this document is all over the building and you know that that's okay. You haven't had time to see it or whatever, so I'll just give you the answer now. But it does hurt you in your little SM soul inside to go, I spent a lot of time on that document.

It's fine. I was up at 9 a.m. talking to different creatives about what we're doing today and continuing to work, but that's okay. At least the information's there. Like I'm always like, you know, you spend the time getting the information out to people in any way you can, and you're giving everyone the tools to kind of be successful in the show, and you just have to go with, you know, there's a lot of different individuals and personalities and theatre, you know, or the performing arts in general is such a fast-paced thing that you know sometimes people just don't have time to read things, so that's why we have humans there, I guess.

[14:50] Darren Kowacki: Yes. AI cannot get rid of us anytime soon.

[14:58] Darren Kowacki: I mean, I did musicals for like what, ten years. I wanted to convince a producer at one point to buy like, um, ten iPads or something, make a one-off investment, and then those iPads tour around the theater and you have them just on stands at, you know, at the locations you'd normally put up your cast change or your schedule, and that way you could just be in the office and go update and you're not printing paper, it's going just to a screen and it's like scrolling or something, but never quite got there, but maybe someone will do that one day.

[15:26] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, there needs to be a cheaper alternative to it because I'm sort of at that point now where when I print something, I'm like, I've sent it in an email. Like, the people have this accessible on their own devices. Do I really need to use all this paper in printing? I'm definitely looking into that in, you know, my career and what I'm doing as a stage manager to make sure that I'm being as resourceful as I can.

[15:50] Darren Kowacki: But those sorts of things obviously then come at another cost. I know, and you know, like, you know, convincing producers to pay for some more blue tack and plastic pockets can sometimes be a struggle. So getting an iPad or a monitor at stage door might be another thing. But you know, maybe one day we'll get there.

[16:07] Darren Kowacki: One day. I mean, there was a lot of change around COVID and how people were signing in and out through systems, iPads and all of that sort of stuff, which is really great to see that, you know, that technology that we talk about is coming. It's just, you know, like most things in theatre, slow change.

[16:24] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, and you still have the always the old analog backup, right? Like, you know, we were using on my last two or three tours, we were using like that digital sign-in systems, which meant, you know, you could be standing on stage and on your phone see who's signed in, but you know, we still had the clipboard and ticked names off and visually checked that we've seen that person in case they had signed in but maybe gone down the street to get dinner or something. Like, you know, then other million things that could have happened.

[16:54] Darren Kowacki: But people are good at signing in, not so good at signing out. There's always that like 15-minute window of like if you're only leaving the theatre for 15 minutes then, yeah, it's just that. It's what it's like, you know, working on live shows. It's like if I had a dollar for every time someone complained about noise backstage, um, I would have many properties. You know, and it's just, there are ways to do it and it's quite interesting actually talking to stage managers about what they do to keep noise down backstage and everyone has their own kind of like little thing they do and whatnot, but it's just, I guess that's the perks of live theatre of having to deal with these things that we haven't solved yet.

[17:34] Darren Kowacki: It still continues to be a problem and I'm sure will be a problem for many years to come.

[17:38] Darren Kowacki: Yeah. I did an interview last year for a show which one of the questions that I was asked was, you know, what's one thing about the job that you don't like? And I sort of, it sort of stumps me because I go, well, you know, there's things that are difficult. There's days that are hard, but at the end of the day, I wouldn't do what I do if I didn't love it because, you know, it is that sort of industry. But what I did say in this response was I don't like having to shush other adults. I don't like being backstage telling another adult to be quiet.

[18:09] Joshua Broadbent: It is quite funny, isn't it? Like people spend so much time and stress and energy and learning to get into some of these shows, you know, especially like, you know, like a big touring commercial show. Um, and they're an adult and so you have to be at work on time.

[18:26] Darren Kowacki: Yeah. And you know, things happen. Life happens, like we get it.

[18:31] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[18:31] Darren Kowacki: It's one of the more mundane parts of the job, I guess. But, you know, like you say, like you to go take the, you know, the good with the bad and the bad with the good and it's what makes stage management the thing and it's hard to necessarily describe to someone that maybe's not in the industry of why we do it. 'Cause yeah, I'm the same. I wouldn't change it. I, you know, I loved, I love the industry and whatnot and we can always improve and everything, but it can't all be sunshine and rainbows twenty-four hours a day. Like that's not reality.

[19:04] Darren Kowacki: So obviously you've sort of moved away from being a stage manager into that sort of production role. What made you make that little shift?

[19:14] Darren Kowacki: I was at a point in my career where, you know, all I wanted to do was be a stage manager, and then, you know, when I started doing musicals, I was like, all I want to do is work on, you know, in musical theatre and whatnot. And I guess I got to the point where I'd been doing that for so long. I just started to think about the future from like a personal perspective of going, what do I want to do with my life? And, um, I was really lucky enough that my wife was touring with me quite a lot since we'd been together and we were on tour, and I was kind of toying up with, you know, do I take the next kind of musical or two or three, and I don't know, or do we start to maybe think about, you know, buying a home and having a house somewhere and maybe starting a family and all these sorts of things.

[19:59] Darren Kowacki: Um, and everyone has their own personal choice about how they want to do it, and that's great. And we kind of decided that maybe having a home base and maybe a bit of a change was a good thing, and I've always had such a passion for also being like a production manager and a technical director and that sort of thing that, um, I was just lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time and talk to the right person, which I guess is how it works in this industry so much. And a position became available that kind of needed all the skills I'd been working my whole career to develop, and then now a lot of a lot more, and I kind of jumped into the role.

[20:38] Darren Kowacki: So I still, I mean, I'll always call myself a stage manager, and I still call shows and I'm still floor managing events and sitting at a prompt desk every now and then and doing schedules and whatnot, but I now just do focusing a lot more on other stuff. I'm just really lucky that the company I work at is quite boutique in a way that, you know, it's a video production company, which is a good way to describe it and also the worst way to describe it, because we're kind of like a one-stop shop, and I will literally, you know, as you said, like one day I'll be like today, I was mainly just a production manager. I've got, you know, five or six tours in the next few months, and I'm looking after the touring around Australia, and they have no video in them whatsoever. I'm literally just a production manager, but you know, the following day I might be a camera director or a camera producer and, you know, doing some sort of video piece.

[21:34] Darren Kowacki: Um, we service a lot of commercial theatre and whatnot. So one of the roles we do is look after a lot of the musicals that have video requirements. And I was lucky enough, yes, to where we're doing Anne Juliet, so I'm the associate for that, which is a lot of fun. And we're about to, um, move the show to Singapore in a couple of months, so that's been a lot of work and it's quite exciting. But yeah, we do such a vast variety of things, which kind of keeps the brain ticking.

[21:58] Darren Kowacki: Um, like learning new challenges. I've had to learn a lot of new technology, um, things, especially in the video world. It's a lot of fun. No one day is the same, but I don't wake up looking at my phone, working out who's sick today and who's not gonna be in the show, and I've gotta say that part is great. I still get plenty of emails and texts, but just not having to deal with that one element. I don't know. I don't, I won't miss that.

[22:27] Joshua Broadbent: So yeah, of course. So you're really embracing that sort of like every day is different, because obviously when you're on a show, it's very much the same show every single day. Would you ever go back into that if someone was like, Hey, we've got a really great opportunity for you to go into this, you know, six-month tour of the same thing every day?

[22:43] Darren Kowacki: I would never say never, and I've been asked a lot over the last, I've only stopped just, we, I literally stopped, it was supposed to be, uh, late 2020, but obviously COVID forced the change to happen a bit sooner. If things worked out, there's no way I would, it would be very hard not to go back, I guess. Like, you know, there are certain elements I miss, like I do miss being on a show with, you know, with your team, and if something goes wrong, provided no one gets hurt, you know, when everyone kind of comes together and solves something on the spot.

[23:16] Darren Kowacki: But I feel we can't, I kind of do that in my job now, like we're still running events and whatnot, and I've, I still have that stage management or stage manager approach to a lot of the things I do, which I think sometimes, you know, might annoy my colleagues. Um, because I'm like, that's not how we, we could do that more efficiently, or read my schedule. Yeah, I'll always miss it, but I would go back maybe, but for now I'm very happy with what I'm doing and nice, like I said, I still get to, you know, call a show here and there and kind of dip my toe in and whatnot. And you know, I really enjoy mentoring like the younger generation of stage managers that are coming up and talking with them and meeting young students that might be interested in doing it and just being like an advocate for it and telling them that it is actually a really great career and really rewarding and so highly encouraging to anyone that wants to do it, I guess.

[24:15] Darren Kowacki: Like never get stuck down on the negatives because, you know, every job has its, you know, its a job at the end of the day, there's gonna be some negatives, but there's way too many positives in this industry, so yeah.

[24:41] Joshua Broadbent: So you're no stranger obviously to touring internationally. I haven't had that experience yet, and it's a sort of a question that comes through from our listeners all the time, just about, you know, like, what's it like to go international? So obviously you've been there as a stage manager and you're about to go there within your video associate design role for Anne Juliet. What sort of things that you need to consider when touring a show over there from both a stage management and now also, you know, in this design role?

[25:09] Darren Kowacki: You've got to embrace that you're going to a different area. And I guess it does depend on the location you're going to. Expect the unexpected, you know, like we, uh, when I toured to Japan with Singing in the Rain, it's probably one of the most rewarding tours I've ever done. We were, we kind of went there and I think we were more concerned about things not going right. You know, we were doing that Australian thing of preparing as much as we can and just expecting everything not to go well and people not to know what they're doing and all that sort of stuff.

[25:44] Darren Kowacki: And it was 100% the opposite. They, the Japan crew we have were such professionals and so polite and loving and embracing of us that it was just a beautiful experience. But that said, like, you know, you're in a foreign country, you can't just nip down to the prop store. Like they might not have that sort of thing. And I mean, the only thing Japan didn't have, which, you know, I maybe I should go into a bit of a side hustle. They didn't have blue tack. They were so excited to see blue tack, because it was all very much you can't put things on walls like most venues around the world. And I'd pulled out blue tack and I kept saying blue tack in emails and they didn't obviously understand what I was talking about. And when I showed them, they were like, This is amazing. Um, don't you have this here? And they're like, No. And I'm like, so I gave them like my leftover packets to go, you know, have, have all of this if you want. Blue tack, blue tack for everyone.

[26:38] Darren Kowacki: So I guess that there's that. And then, you know, uh, when we toured through China, it was very different because the venues were run, a lot of them were run by the government. So very little information. You know, we would try to do like dressing room allocations, and we would get to the theater and sometimes we'd get a bit of a map, or just Darren, there's ten rooms. I can't tell you how big or small they are. So, you know, one of the first things we would do while the load-in starts is just race around the theater, going, where can we put everyone and just changing the plan instantly? And we would walk around hallways and be like, Where's this room? They're like, Oh, we haven't built that yet. And you're like, Oh, okay. So my principal, I guess can't go in that room because it doesn't exist.

[27:18] Darren Kowacki: Um, you know, so I guess, yeah, prepare for it to be different, but also, and it's, it is very exciting because you're, I guess you're in a different area and you know, you're working with different crew, but be patient, like, you know, understand that people do things differently, and this is, you know, their space that you're in and their profession, and you know, that they might, they might do it differently.

[27:43] Darren Kowacki: So just be really clear about communication, especially if you're in a maybe a country that doesn't speak the same language as you, you know, and you have to do a lot of things through translators, you know, make sure you're really clear about what stop means and go. And it's just really, it sounds really simple, but like, you know, the last thing you want to do is start a show and then stop something for safety, but no operators know what that means. If you find yourself in that kind of situation, but you know, embrace it, embrace the culture, embrace the food, get the locals to take you out. And like I say, like, you know, you can't just go to Officeworks and buy more printer paper. So make sure you've got enough for however long you're there for. I mean, papers may be a bit of a stretch. You could probably buy paper, but maybe the ink for your printer could be a bit harder, and just little things like that.

[28:32] Darren Kowacki: Um, some people can forget, and you can't just plug, you know, your laptop into every PowerPoint, you know. I think like every international tour I've done, it like things just get slightly easier because you kind of learn and go, Oh, actually, I mean to think of that and whatnot. You know, one of the things I did for one of the tours, I think it was Singing in the Rain. Uh, I did like the company handbook about going to another country, and, uh, oh, and I was really excited to go to Japan. I'd always wanted to go, and so I did a lot of research and talked to people that were working there or touring there and whatnot, and found out about, you know, how it works. So what do you do when you need physio and whatnot? And then through just to like what's important in the culture there and how you should behave as a visitor to this country as a working visitor as well, and kind of put this kind of quite large booklet together.

[29:23] Darren Kowacki: It was really nice. Like a lot of the company members like made a point of saying, Oh, thanks so much for that, because like, you know, I kind of learnt about stuff before I went, which kind of really helped answer all the questions. Like everyone knew we were going, we're putting on a show and we're staying at this hotel and the theatre's there, but I have no idea how to use the subway system, but it was all written in advance for them, so everyone kind of felt quite comfortable just to go and do it.

[29:52] Darren Kowacki: Uh, the Japan one was just in one theater in the Orb Theater, which was in Tokyo in, um, I think I can't remember, maybe on like level 30 of this skyscraper, which was very interesting to have a theater up in the air.

[30:06] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[30:07] Darren Kowacki: The foyer is amazing. You just, we had our opening night party there, and you just like outlook over to, you know, the skyline of Tokyo. Um, when we did China, I maybe it's like nine or ten theaters over four or five months, um, that we went that we went to, uh, kind of all over like the east coast, but from far north to far south of China.

[30:31] So we got to travel quite a, quite a, uh, large amount around, uh, China, which was really exciting and see it was amazing to see how it changed from like city to city, very much like you'd say here in Australia, like we're all Australians, but you know, like a Brisbane audience is very different to a Perth audience.

[30:50] Um, and we found that in China that like, you know, those cities were so different, and they also had different dialects. So there'd be times where, you know, we had some full-time translators that would tour with us, and then you'd pick up, we had, you know, several, seven or eight in every venue, and sometimes the translators wouldn't even understand the full local dialect, like they would hear a loader saying something, and I go, What is he saying?

[31:13] They're like, I don't know. Like, um, let me go try to find out. Uh, but yeah, that tour was wild. It was so much fun. There were so many interesting moments along the tour, uh, which, you know, might have been, uh, stressful for some people and whatnot, but, um, to get through to the end of it, it was such an experience.

[31:34] Like, you know, I still remember the look on the produce. We had our local producer was with us for every show in the company office, and they got very used to every night I would go and find them and say, This is today's problem kind of thing.

[31:49] And they would always have a bit of a laugh with me and we'd go solve it. And I walked into their office and they gave me that look of, you know, what tonight? And I was like, look, the band have complained because someone's making noodles in the front row.

[32:02] And, um, they just looked at me going, What? That maybe I've heard that wrong. I'm like, no, there's a young individual that's decided to see the show tonight and also make dough noodles where you have to stretch it out and then spin it around, and they're sitting behind the conductor, and it's kind of a little bit distracting to the performers and the band who are trying to look at the conductor monitor, and they didn't believe me.

[32:25] So I had to, I dragged them to the stage. We went to the vocal booth and looked at the monitor and burst into laughter, and they're like, That's a new one. Let's go talk to front of house, I guess. So, you know, it's moments like that. I go, that they don't, they're the memories I love.

[32:39] Like that was funny moments, I know. Oh god, yeah. You wouldn't expect it, but it happened.

[32:44] Someone recording the show, sure.

[32:46] Darren Kowacki: Someone was sitting there making noodles. I guess. I wish we were archiving. I wish I had that footage from the, um, the, the whoever was calling that night, probably my DSM or something, and they were, uh, yeah, pissing themselves in the corner the whole time.

[33:00] I can't believe this is happening.

[33:02] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my god. So obviously you're the video associate designer for &Juliet, and you're about to go over for the Singapore, you know, to get the Singapore tour started. What is your sort of roles and responsibility within that show, especially in that new country?

[33:17] Darren Kowacki: Australia's been the first touring version of this show. Um, it's only existed, you know, mainly in like the West End and Broadway, and they, you know, they did an out-of-town try-out, so it's never been a touring show, so they've had to learn a lot from Australia.

[33:33] It's, I mean, it's very similar to any other associates on the show, you know, from the lighting and the sound associate, you know, adapting how it fits into that theatre. I mean, we're very lucky that, uh, the projection surfaces are, uh, contained within the, the box, um, the set.

[33:50] So a little of ours changes in that regard, but the, uh, all the projection mapping that gets done, um, the levels of the, um, in the show, we have a video screen, uh, at the back of the stage, which is blended with front projection as well.

[34:07] And at times they light behind it. And as we travel from venue to venue, uh, those things are going to adjust a little bit. The, you know, the lighting's gonna change, which means that's gonna change the video content, you know, the front of house projector's gonna be mapping the set piece slightly differently because the projector's lower in Singapore than it was in Melbourne, all that sort of stuff.

[34:29] So, you know, I'm there to be the eyes of the video designer Andre, who's the original designer. Um, he's just passed the show on to me, so I need to make sure that from a video side of things that, you know, the quality is still upheld, and that I work with the other creatives to kind of make sure we do all our blending really nicely and then get the show physically in there.

[34:52] I'm lucky that my colleague at work who's the programmer and systems engineer. I work a lot with him to make the show tourable from a video sense, and that if anything needs to change from city to city or country to country in this case, um, that we work on that.

[35:09] So it's like, it's months and months of planning and changing and adapting and whatnot, which has been a new, a new thing for me is dealing with that kind of stuff. So, and like I said, we're, we know we, we're dealing with, uh, a few of the commercial musicals at the moment around the country and doing the same sort of thing, which is really exciting.

[35:27] I feel like there's not a lot of video associates in this country. It's a bit rare to have a lot of them, especially in like kind of the commercial theater sense. So it's, I've been enjoying it a lot and using a lot of old skills, uh, you know, throughout my stage management career of touring shows around where, you know, maybe there's not any video people on the show, and you know, someone designed some content and then you have to make it work from venue to venue and, you know, all that sort of thing.

[35:54] It's a lot of fun to sit there and do the creative side and whatnot, and then, you know, watch the stage management team running around, um, trying to do tech and all that sort of stuff and just, you know, smile and go, I'm glad it's not my problem.

[36:08] Um, you know, kind of where's my schedule for the day. Um, but it's a lot of fun. We're really lucky on that show. It's such a great team, especially the production team and the crew, and it's a real joy to work, work with them all.

[36:20] So, um, yeah, I'm looking forward to going over for a couple of weeks. It will be very nice. And it's so rare for a show to go from one Australian city straight over to international.

[36:30] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, to go to Singapore first is, um, is interesting to go that way, but it's exciting that it's, um, the opportunities there.

[36:38] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, it's really good. So hopefully, I mean, uh, Australian audiences so far seem to be really enjoying the show. I think it's amazing.

[36:44] Joshua Broadbent: So if you haven't seen it, buy a ticket.

[36:47] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, it's such a beautiful show and it has such great messaging and whatnot. And I haven't heard any kind of negative reviews from, you know, all your theater friends that like to pick things apart.

[36:58] It's been done so beautifully. And I, I really, I think the video is one of those things, even as a video person, you know, you see shows these days and sometimes you go, I feels like there's a screen on stage for the sake of having a screen on stage.

[37:11] But the work that Andre's designed on this show is so beautiful and I think really well done and very tasteful in how it's blended with the show and the lighting and whatnot, but it's a privilege to, um, to be involved in that aspect and kind of make it happen in each city.

[37:30] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, it's, uh, it is so seamless. I saw it while I was in Melbourne and the, the video projection. There's times where you're like, no, that's not, but that's not video production or any screens or anything.

[37:39] Like it just looks, it looks painted, it looks so real and then it changes and you're like, oh.

[37:44] Darren Kowacki: Yeah, yeah.

[37:45] Joshua Broadbent: Uh, so Darren, I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but I do have one more question for you. But obviously you're very focused on, you know, inspiring, uh, that next generation. You love to connect with them through, you know, universities and all of that.

[38:00] What's sort of one piece of advice that you would give to someone, um, that is looking to get into the entertainment industry within, you know, stage management or in a technical role?

[38:10] Darren Kowacki: I guess I would say try everything and don't say no to anything when you're starting out. You know, it, it depending on like, you know, what age you are and what you're, you what background you're coming from, like get involved in like your school projects, um, or community theatre or amateur theatre or, you know, your local town hall, you know, if they need crew or production people, like just get involved and from a young age, you know, you can afford to be a volunteer on a lot of these things, you know.

[38:41] Hopefully you've got some support in other areas. Because it would just give you a bit of a taste of what it's like. Um, and just go in with an open mind that there's a lot, there's a lot to learn and there's a lot of good people out there.

[38:52] But just talk to people, you know. I, I feel I was very lucky as a young, as a young person getting into stage management where I happened to fall upon a few people that kind of mentored me and opened some doors and opportunities.

[39:09] But talking with, like, stage managers even all over the world, we always say if someone knocks on the stage door and wants to talk to the stage manager, I would give them every time of the day.

[39:21] I, I would spend time having a chat to them and whatnot. So, you know, do that, you know. If you want to be a stage manager, you know, jump on the internet, you know, find out if there's any sort of like networks, associations, like listen to this, like podcast, for instance.

[39:37] Um, get involved and talk to people, but don't be afraid to. Like, there's so many great stage managers in this country that I'm sure if you reached out to them, they'd be happy to talk to you and kind of give you their advice and whatnot.

[39:49] And you know, there's, you kind of probably need some form of formal training to get into stage management. So understand what that is and where you can go and the different options that are out there and get in and do it.

[40:02] Don't wait for someone to call you and offer you a job.

[40:06] Hassle everybody. Our industry, as we know, is all about networking. And there's times where you do have to keep emailing the same person, you know, every couple of months because everyone is looking for work, everyone is busy.

[40:18] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I love, uh, how much of an inspiration you are to that next generation when you do sit down and talk to them and share your insight and your knowledge.

[40:30] And I really do thank you for jumping on today and talking to the listeners.

[40:34] Darren Kowacki: And to me, I'm learning things as well.

[40:36] Joshua Broadbent: So no, it's great.

[40:37] Darren Kowacki: I, I, you know, I, I loved, I love talking about stage management and with fellows stage managers and whatnot. We've got such a really good community, and you can learn off so many people, and it's the, it's the one thing I'd always talk about, like when, you know, there were some very rare occurrences as a stage manager, and this is something that I didn't really discover to like the second half of my SM career that you spend so much time kind of learning how to be a stage manager and learning how to work on a particular genre of theatre or whatever, that then you stop actually working with other stage managers, you know.

[41:11] Once you get to the role of a stage manager or a production stage manager, you know, you're only ever employing DSMs and ASMs, and so you find yourself maybe going, Do I do it the same way as anybody else?

[41:24] And there are a few lucky opportunities where I got to work with like another stage manager, and that kind of collaboration and going, Oh, how do you do it? Or how do you do it? Or can you show me your document? And, and you kind of go, Oh, I like that bit, and then they go, Well, I like that bit of yours, and kind of combine it, and it keeps growing and whatnot.

[41:42] And, um, same, you know, with all your paperwork and just the way you do it. So I always encourage people don't, don't stop talking to other SMs. There's always, always something new and exciting and a different way of doing something.

[41:53] So, but no, it's look, it's been a pleasure, it's been, it's been a lot of fun. Keep networking, keep talking to other people, and as you said, there's so many great resources out there.

[42:01] Not only a really great podcast called Whispers in the Wings, but you know, um, Facebook groups and all of that sort of stuff. And there's a lot of stuff happening within the industry here in Australia, and just, you know, go to a Thirsty Thursdays and find out who the, if the stage manager's there and talk to them.

[42:16] Like best thing you could do.

[42:19] Joshua Broadbent: Now Darren, if people wanted to reach out to you and, you know, chat to you that may not be able to in person, is there anywhere they can find you?

[42:27] Darren Kowacki: Uh, absolutely can. I mean, you can like search for me on social media. I'm part of the Stage Managers Association, so you can, you can jump on the website and find me there.

[42:35] That's probably the easiest way. I, I, I would say rather than just giving you out my mobile number right now. I don't want to necessarily do that, but I don't think it's that, I don't think it would be that hard to, um, to find me.

[42:41] And I, and like I said, I, I still get lots of messages and stuff and people will find me on LinkedIn and whatnot and always happy to give, give some advice if, if you need it or if you just want to chat.

[42:57] Joshua Broadbent: Amazing. I'll pop some links down in the, uh, show notes so that people can find you there, but thank you so much for coming on and joining me today. I really appreciate it.

[43:06] Darren Kowacki: Pleasure and good luck with season two.

[43:06] Joshua Broadbent: Thank you so much. And that brings us to the end of this episode of Whispers in the Wings. Thank you so much to Darren for jumping on and having a chat with us today and for you, the listener, for tuning in. Now I have some incredible guests lined up this season, so make sure you are following us wherever you find your podcast and also on Instagram and Facebook at Whispers in the Wings.

[43:11] If you do have any questions that you may like to ask a future potential guest, please do send them through because I would love to make sure the questions that are being answered on this podcast are things that you, the listener, wants to know.

[43:39] Once again, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Bye-bye.