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[0:02] Joshua Broadbent: Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Whispers in the Wings.

[0:06] Joshua Broadbent: This week I am joined by a very special guest host, Tom Rogers.

[0:12] Joshua Broadbent: Members of the Whispers in the Wings community, this is your Act One Beginners Call, your Act One Beginners Call.

[0:19] Joshua Broadbent: Thank you.

[0:23] Tom Rogers: Hi there.

[0:24] Joshua Broadbent: Hello, Tom.

[0:25] Tom Rogers: How are you?

[0:25] Joshua Broadbent: I'm good, thanks. How are you, Josh?

[0:27] Joshua Broadbent: I'm very well, thank you. Thank you for joining me today on this brand new episode of Whispers in the Wings.

[0:32] Tom Rogers: Anytime.

[0:32] Joshua Broadbent: You are a very loyal listener of Whispers in the Wings, I hope.

[0:36] Tom Rogers: Oh, yeah. 100%. I was there from the start.

[0:39] Joshua Broadbent: Oh, good, good. You were there in the early planning days.

[0:41] Tom Rogers: I literally was. I watched you put together the graphics.

[0:44] Joshua Broadbent: Yes.

[0:44] Tom Rogers: And go through 900 different...

[0:47] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[0:47] Tom Rogers: Well, you've got to find the right thing.

[0:49] Joshua Broadbent: Of course.

[0:49] Joshua Broadbent: So, Tom, what I'm gonna do before we dive into you and your career, I'm gonna read out a little bio so our listeners know why you're here today.

[0:57] Joshua Broadbent: Tom Rogers is a Sydney-based freelance stage manager and theatre practitioner, currently working on Fangirls at the Sydney Opera House with Belvast Street Theatre. In 2017, they started their stage management journey working with a variety of local musical theatre companies before becoming head of staging at the Concourse Theatre in Chatswood. While in the position, they worked on a range of events and productions such as Priscilla Queen of the Desert, Les Misérables, Willoughby Symphony Orchestra and Pacific Opera Events, Bluey's Big Play National Tour, and numerous CDP shows. In recent months, they have been working as a stage management swing and tech swing, working on productions such as A Chorus Line for Darlinghurst Theatre Company as a calling stage management swing, North by Northwest for K and Clean Productions as the Mechanist Swing, and Nearer the Gods for Ensemble Theatre as the Assistant Stage Management Swing.

[1:40] Joshua Broadbent: So, Tom, you're very similar to me in that you've had a lot of experience in community theatre at a young age.

[1:46] Tom Rogers: Yeah.

[1:47] Joshua Broadbent: So, what's community theatre like for you? What's it been like for you?

[1:51] Tom Rogers: It was very particular for me, and as a stage manager. There wasn't a lot, but I feel like our stage management experiences within community theatre have also been different. So what's it like for you?

[2:01] Tom Rogers: Um, I started community theatre when I was like 15, really, with places like Pac-Man Productions and Willoughby Theatre Company. I was really enlightening because I didn't know an awful lot about theatre. And so I was just learning everything I could, putting my hand up for anything possible. Um, I did lots of stuff as a mech and then as an ASM and then stage management eventually. It was very different from what I think I thought it would be. Because we were working with inside of venues, they were all readily equipped essentially. And so we kind of only came in as stage managers or as mechs and building our own show within that venue. We didn't have to think about any of the venue stuff. We always had lots of venue support as well.

[2:39] Joshua Broadbent: Right.

[2:40] Joshua Broadbent: For me in community theatre, very same thing. I grew up very young in it. I only stage managed actually one show in community theatre at Young People's Theatre in Newcastle. And I did a lot of other things there for them and would, you know, sort of step in if the stage manager was away. But I sort of taught myself what stage management was and what lighting was and what all those things were because we didn't really at the time have many people around there that were sharing the experience or professionals coming back. They do now, which was so wonderful. I've gone back a couple of times to mentor there. So it's that sort of thing of I had to teach myself the ways of calling a show and all of that.

For me, it was very much like the shows were on the weekends. I would go in for like two days of the production weekends or tech, and then I'd be there on the weekends for the show. But I didn't have to really worry as a stage manager for rehearsals and for anything else, really, that you would now as a professional in the industry was basically making sure that the, you know, the front curtain was shut by the time the audience came in, calling the cues and then leaving. Like it wasn't really a lot.

[3:37] Tom Rogers: Was that similar for you?

[3:40] Joshua Broadbent: Mine was probably half and half.

[3:42] Tom Rogers: Okay.

[3:42] Joshua Broadbent: It was a little bit more involved as a stage manager. I was there for, we only did two rehearsals a week, um, like a Tuesday and a Thursday or something, and I was there for both of those from seven till ten. So I was always there for rehearsals. I was there for the entire tech period and then the 14 or 15 shows or whatever we did, calling cues and everything else. But it was kind of right in the middle; we had a lot more involvement with the show than it sounds that you did.

[4:06] Tom Rogers: Yeah, it's really interesting. I also remember one show that the director had already written the prompt copy. Like we weren't even there at a plot session. They're like, here's the prompt copy, here's the cue.

[4:06] Tom Rogers: Wow. And it like they do pantomimes and there's music throughout all of it, so it would never be calling on a score or anything. It was always just calling to a script, and it's really interesting teaching yourself. But that's something I didn't realise in community theatre that we literally had to teach ourselves almost everything. Like I was sitting there watching YouTube videos of how to call the show because I'd never heard someone call a show before.

[4:38] Tom Rogers: Yeah.

[4:38] Tom Rogers: Or I had heard someone roughly call a show and I went, oh yeah, okay. I mean, you had the experience of going on to Matilda and in your second man. I never had that; I never had been with a professional show.

[4:52] Tom Rogers: Yeah.

[4:53] Tom Rogers: And so I was just teaching myself off YouTube and I was trying to write a show report and didn't know how to. In fact, I came to you for the first time when you were doing with Devolves and going, how do I write a show report? And you sent me a rough Excel document and I copied that and took it with me.

[5:08] Joshua Broadbent: It's the same one I use now.

[5:10] Tom Rogers: God, I mean, it looks a little bit better than guys 16.

[5:14] Joshua Broadbent: I don't even know what that looks like now.

[5:16] Tom Rogers: That was literally, yeah. It was just teaching ourselves how to do everything. Lots of the stage managers that I learnt from were not stage managers. They were people that were just doing it for fun.

[5:24] Tom Rogers: Yeah.

[5:27] Tom Rogers: And were just interested, and I knew I wanted to make a career out of it. And so I was doing everything I possibly could to make myself better. And I had directors go, oh that's great, that's awesome. And they loved what I did, but that's probably because they hadn't experienced lots of stage managers before. And it was just me learning everything.

[5:45] Joshua Broadbent: So you didn't go to uni, you haven't studied. Did you ever see yourself being able to get into the industry as a professional like you have now without doing that?

[5:55] Tom Rogers: There was a point, and this was all just kind of before COVID, I thought, oh yeah, the only way to get in is to study. And then I saw a couple of friends of mine get into the industry and get jobs without studying. I was like, heck yeah, I want to follow that because I don't necessarily want to spend three years in uni and paying for uni when I could be out working. And especially because you learn the uni way, but you also then have to relearn the industry way.

[6:26] Joshua Broadbent: Exactly.

[6:26] Tom Rogers: And you learn more; you get more valuable life lessons out of actually working in the industry than sort of, you know, going through the uni way because that's so particular in what they do.

[6:36] Joshua Broadbent: For sure.

[6:37] Tom Rogers: Yeah. And there was a point where I wanted to work in the UK as well. And so looking at unis over there and how to get into the professional world, and I found that over there, from what I could see being in Australia, there wasn't much of a way without going through uni. I didn't have any connections. I mean, I'm from the UK, but I didn't have any theatre connections over there.

[7:01] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[7:01] Tom Rogers: And so it would be, you know, somewhat impossible to just go straight in and expect a job on the West End or something. And so I found that for sure here it kind of was I had two options and I kind of went for the non-uni approach. And that's where starting off as a swing is so great. You may not have had that same opportunity going in for an ASM position because typically a lot of stage managers do look for people that have a bit more experience or have a degree behind them as a new ASM in the industry. So starting as a swing is a really great place to start because you're not expected to take over and do all of these extra jobs. You're literally just usually there to, well in your case, call the show, go on a side, which is a very rare experience as a swing, but you're usually there to just cover a plot.

So you're learning off that person; you just basically have to do exactly what that person does. You can't change from it. So it is an easier sort of route to get into the industry, and then once you've started networking with those stage managers and those companies, then you have more of a connection to then go, okay, well I actually want to be a stage manager now. I want to do this.

[8:07] Tom Rogers: Yeah, and that's still the path I'm on, and I'm still encountering times where I'm going for positions and I don't have that piece of paper behind me, and it does make it a bit harder, so I've got to rely on the connections that I've made and the skills that I've learned that aren't necessarily part of a uni degree that I have.

[8:23] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, but I mean in the last sort of year since theatre really came back in Sydney and in Australia and in the world, you've done so much stage management, swing tech swings. You've done A Chorus Line as calling stage manager, North by Northwest, Nearer the Gods, and now you're working on Fangirls.

[8:42] Tom Rogers: I sure am.

[8:42] Joshua Broadbent: So what is your current role on Fangirls?

[8:46] Tom Rogers: So my current role is technical coordinator and assistant stage manager. So I started the show as technical coordinator, which meant that I had a small deck plot with lots of set electrics, and we've got large LED screen components that would be my responsibility as well, as well as just technical coordinating the entire production really and assisting the production manager where need be.

[9:08] Joshua Broadbent: Sure.

[9:09] Tom Rogers: Um, and then in week two of rehearsals, it turned into a stage management position because the show is just crazy. Like it is just non-stop; it's a non-stop two-hour piece of theatre.

[9:20] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[9:20] Tom Rogers: And there's quick changes every couple of minutes, and it is just insane. And because it's an entirely new cast. So it's done two productions before. It did the original Belvoir season and it did a tour as well in 2021. Both of which had almost the same cast both times. This is an entirely new cast, other than two. And so the cast needed that extra support. And so I was brought on as an assistant stage manager to assist and to help make the production as good as it could be.

[9:48] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[9:48] Tom Rogers: And sometimes you don't realize you need an extra pair of hands until you get to that process.

[9:52] Joshua Broadbent: Now, can we just jump back to A Chorus Line?

[9:56] Joshua Broadbent: Typically, a stage management swing would call a show, but you did. Tell us a little bit about that.

[10:02] Tom Rogers: So essentially I was brought on to A Chorus Line as the stage management swing. Um, but mostly as the calling stage manager. Um, and so I learnt that track and I did that after watching one show. I watched one show, and then I called that next night, which was, it's such a crazy show with so many lighting cues. Some of them being time-coded, which obviously helps. Um, but it was just actually insane. So I learnt that track and did it twice. And then later that week, I called the rest of the show. Our stage manager got COVID, and I called the rest of the show.

[10:41] Tom Rogers: Which was pretty insane, and we came through some hairy situations, but we got through them.

[10:45] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, it's absolutely incredible that opportunity arose for you. Like these opportunities sort of existed before COVID, but it's definitely been since COVID that we've seen the value in swings, um, not just technical but in all departments in all areas of theatre. It's really valuable to have swings and to have people that have those skills as well.

[11:10] Tom Rogers: So there's one thing that you sort of didn't mention on your bio that I read out, and that is that you were a fly person for Mary Poppins.

[11:18] Tom Rogers: I was, yes.

[11:19] Joshua Broadbent: And that sort of all came about for you because of the work that you did at the Concourse Theatre because you did a lot of flying there.

[11:26] Tom Rogers: That's right. So I, um, as the head of staging at the Concourse, I essentially was also the head fly operator. And we have an automated system at the Concourse using a desk with joysticks instead of a manual fly system with ropes. And so that provides its own set of challenges because essentially you're relying on technology, which can be very scary at times. It's just a computer at the end of the day.

[11:47] Tom Rogers: Yeah. And especially when you're flying humans. Um, and so on Priscilla Queen of the Desert, I got the opportunity to fly three people, which was probably one of the coolest things I've done. Like it just was awesome having the trust in those people and being able to fly them every night.

[12:01] Tom Rogers: But yeah, that came about because I got that experience, and then I just applied to the technical director and said, hey, do you have any work? And I got a job as a fly operator on Mary Poppins.

[12:11] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah. Great. And as a fly operator, what do you need from stage managers in order to make your job easy?

[12:19] Tom Rogers: I think the most important thing because it was the first stop of Mary Poppins in Australia this time round was during the tech phase and the dry tech phase, it was using the deputy stage manager as the artistic view of the show, I guess, and allowing us to go, hey, that needs to be faster, that needs to be slower, both in terms of a scene change, or actually it looks better if it's slower with these sliders coming off or something like that.

[12:46] Joshua Broadbent: Sure.

[12:46] Tom Rogers: And so using them as an artistic point as well as obviously very clear communication about what needs to move at what time and on what cue light and on what cue number. You might not get a prefix here or you might not get a number here or whatever it may be because if it's a fast sequence, because Poppins is just crazy.

[13:06] Tom Rogers: It just doesn't stop. It all goes back to communication, clear communication.

[13:10] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[13:10] Tom Rogers: And especially in something like Poppins where everything moves so quickly. There's so many automation cues and a lot of fly cues as well that are all coming right in next to each other. If one person screws up, yeah, you could have a serious injury sometimes.

[13:25] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[13:25] Tom Rogers: And in terms of communication, it's the calling stage manager's responsibility to make sure everyone is safe and call those stops when need be. And everyone that's watching whether that be the fly operator, the automation operator, the stage manager, a mechanist, whoever's job is to be spotting and watching that for the safety of those cast members or other crew members, it's 100% important to have that clear communication.

[13:48] Joshua Broadbent: Before we head to our interval, what is your sort of overall message for people in your same position, you know, starting in community theater that want to get into the industry what are your tips or tricks?

[14:00] Tom Rogers: Ask questions. Ask questions, do everything possible. Even if you know, hey, I really want to go into stage management. I really want to be a calling stage manager. Do everything else as well. Go in go and lighting operate a show. Go and do Mike Tech for another show. Sound operate a show. Lighting design, mechanist work, everything you possibly can. Shadow the production manager, anything like that. Shadow the director. Get an artistic idea of how a show runs. It's so important to learn everything you possibly can. And you don't need to be great at those things. For example, I am a terrible sound mixer. I'm quite a good mic tech, but I'm a terrible sound mixer. I don't have the ear for it. But I understand the general idea of how it works, which again helps me as a stage manager and helps me as a swing.

[14:49] Joshua Broadbent: I couldn't agree more. I think it's time for a bit of an intermission. I need a curly whirly.

[14:53] Tom Rogers: A curly whirly.

[14:56] Joshua Broadbent: That's my, that's my, in fact, that's my pre-show checklist. It's operator check, QLight check, whatever, whatever, whatever. Have you eaten a curly whirly Tom?

[15:04] Tom Rogers: Nope, we can't do a show.

[15:05] Joshua Broadbent: Okay, well, we better go so we can take this after act two.

[15:23] Tom Rogers: I'm about to start act two any second, just waiting for an first clearance.

[15:27] Joshua Broadbent: And that's clearance.

[15:29] Tom Rogers: Okay. Oh god, oh, the anticipation. Welcome back to Act Two. If you're new to the podcast, this is a section where we answer questions from our audience. Now, if you do want to ask a question, you can head over to Instagram at Whispers in the Wings and send a question to our DMs. Or you can send us an email at Whispers in the Wings Podcast at gmail.com.

[15:48] Joshua Broadbent: So Tom, I have dove into our question box, and I have two for us today. The first one comes from Emily, and they ask, What is your favorite moment of the whole process?

[15:58] Tom Rogers: The technical rehearsals. As stressful and tiring and time consuming and just long as it is, I find it's the most rewarding, especially for tech is where as stage managers we get to start to build our show and our process and understand all the technical elements which we've just heard faint ideas of in a rehearsal room and have suddenly come to life right in front of us very quickly.

[16:22] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[16:23] Tom Rogers: Um but I think that it's just really rewarding to I mean you're on almost no sleep, you're constantly working, you are tired, everyone's tired, and it's still being able to lead a team, and it's when you get to really collaborate with people to come up with the best ideas to be able to run it as a performance once you get past opening.

[16:43] Joshua Broadbent: I mean, you're absolutely right. I think for me it's that whole process moving from you know, sometimes auditions into rehearsals, into tech, you know, opening the show, learning the core, learning all of the things that go into making the show and then also closing it. It just sort of rounds it out so nicely once you do, you know, the show from start to finish.

[17:04] Tom Rogers: Now, our second question today comes from Dale, and they ask prompt copy, paper or digital.

[17:10] Joshua Broadbent: Both.

[17:11] Tom Rogers: I'm both to both in what way though, Josh?

[17:14] Joshua Broadbent: I'm both in that I will start with a paper prompt copy. So I will over rehearsals, I would develop it on the paper.

[17:22] Tom Rogers: When you say paper like handwritten.

[17:24] Joshua Broadbent: Handwritten, yeah, like print it out handwritten, then throughout tech I would still have that because so much changes. And then once the show is locked in, I would be converting that to a digital prompt copy that I would then print out again so that it's nice and clean.

[17:39] Tom Rogers: So not so much paper or digital using like a laptop or an iPad. I wouldn't probably never do that for a show.

[17:46] Joshua Broadbent: I couldn't too much stress and anxiety, I would say.

[17:51] Tom Rogers: Which is interesting because we run so much of a theatre off of technology.

[17:55] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[17:56] Tom Rogers: Your lighting console, your audio console, your automation console, anything like that is all technology. And that's way more likely to die than a laptop losing battery. But in saying that as a stage manager, we are always there ready to go. If something goes wrong and we lose our technology, if we've got a piece of paper that we can call off of still to make the show come to a nice, subtle close that works for the artistic integrity of the show, we can still do that. We don't want to be the one that fails, really. Is essentially like we are humans looking at a piece of paper. I do find the value, however, in creating a digital version of your prompt copy so that you know, when the next person needs to call it or learn it, like the ASM or whatever, you can print and that's their copy. Because I sort of value having my own prompt copy and you know, everyone should have their own copy that's theirs.

[18:46] Tom Rogers: Yeah, I'm definitely the same. I go through my rehearsal process with essentially I do two entirely different books, especially on a smaller show or a new work. Yeah, I work on a paper copy with my handwritten notes with lots of blocking, and then when I make my show calling prompt copy, it becomes digital. I usually will write it on the last day of tech before our first preview. It will be that night. I'll stay up until 4 a.m. or whatever it is, writing up a digital prompt copy, adding in all my notes, adding in all my colour coordinating things and symbols, arrows and colourful things, all to make it make more sense to me. So as soon as my eyes hit it, I know what I'm doing.

[19:29] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah. Rather than having to think and yeah and try and translate my own writing even if it is entirely clear. So then in my calling prompt copy I almost remove all of the blocking because I don't unless it's an important part for cueing something or for figuring out when a standby comes up or something like that. I don't need that blocking in there especially if I'm calling you know thousands of cues a show.

[19:53] Tom Rogers: Yeah. I don't have the ability to look at that and the more information on that page the more confusing it's gonna be. And so I always keep that rehearsal prompt copy handy for cover calls and whenever I might need it for blocking purposes. But otherwise I only have the cues and maybe a description of what they are if to be able to differentiate between eight cues over two bars or whatever it may be.

[20:15] Joshua Broadbent: And what do you use to create your digital prompt copy? What program do you use?

[20:19] Tom Rogers: So I just use preview on Mac.

[20:21] Joshua Broadbent: Okay.

[20:22] Tom Rogers: Yeah, I've tried a few things. I tried Adobe PDF and not only do you have to obviously pay for that but I found it quite clunky and slow. That may have been more of my laptop at the time than the program but trying to do you know eight hundred pages or something because it's all single sided was actually quite tricky.

[20:42] Joshua Broadbent: Sure.

[20:42] Tom Rogers: Um and so I just used preview and I just use all the text boxes and arrows and stuff like that. I've tried pages as well but I didn't find that worked as well for me.

[20:50] Joshua Broadbent: Interesting.

[20:51] Tom Rogers: I use pages.

[20:52] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah. I really like pages because what I tend to do is have them so the pages are sitting next to each other so I can literally sort of draw straight across but you can lock elements onto the page. So you lock everything and then what I typically will have is another pages document. I try and do it on a big screen so I can have it all on the one thing, but I'll have another pages document that have all of the sort of my elements already built so I can just copy and paste it. So I'll have the lines with the text box and I'll have the colour coding and I'll have the symbols so that all I need to do is just copy from that and paste it in.

[21:22] Tom Rogers: I haven't tried preview, maybe I should, but I have found pages is the most efficient and quickest way for me to build it. It also allows me to cut and paste it using the crop feature, especially when there are trickier calling sequences that are quick page turns or whatever. I try and either put it all on the one page or build it in a way that I'm not gonna be like calling as soon as I flip a page because it's especially you've got a piece of music that then suddenly jumps into a large chunk of text with underscoring. You might not want to be trying to follow that script with all the underscoring next to it if it's not relevant. And sometimes the score also misses parts of the script and the underscoring because obviously at the end of the day the score is actually for the musicians and it's for the musical director.

[22:05] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[22:06] Tom Rogers: It's not written and designed necessarily for us as stage managers. So yeah, we copy and paste things out. The other thing I'm trying to do, and I'm struggling in the process, is trying to create one on my iPad and use preview on my iPad and write prompt copies. So essentially in the rehearsal room, more as an ASM, I can be walking around going, Oh cool, well this is where this happens, and then look at the score and try to figure out where that is gonna work best to do that to try and lock in that piece of automation where that's gonna work best in the traffic of the wings, for example, or something like that.

[22:42] Joshua Broadbent: I don't use my iPad enough for stage management and I haven't figured out how to use it better to assist me further in stage management. Like, what do you do you have any tips? What have you figured out?

[22:56] Tom Rogers: So I'm really struggling to use it as a prompt copy, but I've been using it constantly in the rehearsal process and now for shows. For Fangirls, I was using it as and actually for Merry Puppins as well. When we were writing up our plots, I was using that. I would write on my laptop first, and then I'd have it on my iPad, and I can scribble over it with my pencil and rewrite things in, draw arrows, go, oh, this queue needs to be here, you need to travel this prop at this time, you need to stand by for this, you need to stand by someone else for this and make sure someone something's happening. And I've been able to do that so easily and quickly then getting a piece of paper and I like to be really minimal on my person when I'm on the deck.

I've got my belt with my leather minute and my torch and a little tiny chalk bag for bits and pieces. But I don't like to carry pieces of paper that could fall out of your pockets, especially when you might need to run on stage quickly. You need it all to be really attached to you. And so having an iPad can just sit on a table, I can walk away from it, and I can go and I can come back and I can scribble on it and keep going.

[23:54] Joshua Broadbent: Do you use preview in that sense or for the that sort of scribbling on stuff?

[23:59] Tom Rogers: Okay, cool. Yeah, I really just need to figure out how to use my iPad more because I bought it in the intent of using it in my industry, and I now use it as sidecar for my Mac to give me a bit more space in my screen.

[24:12] Joshua Broadbent: I mean, I do the same thing when writing documents up, but I've also found it super useful as a tech swing because I can then have six or seven plots all next to each other and I can just quickly swipe through them all, make adjustments to something. But there's an app essentially where you can track all these all your cast movements. I'm sure if you ever talk to a restaurant choreographer or director, they'll they'll be all over it already. But you can then put in all your script and stuff, so you might go when this person moves here, you need to hand this grab this proper for someone, and then that's as mech one, and as mech two, I need to do this, and so I can draw that and show where they travel.

[24:55] Joshua Broadbent: Wow, that's also great. I definitely need to figure out how to use my iPad better within stage management.

[25:01] Tom Rogers: And if people wanted to find you, Tom, they can find you on Insta at Tom.

[25:07] Joshua Broadbent: I'll pop it down in the show notes. Is that correct?

[25:09] Tom Rogers: Of course.

[25:10] Joshua Broadbent: Excellent. And once again, if you'd like to ask a question for a future episode of Whispers in the Wings, you can head over to Instagram at Whispers in the Wings and send us a DM there. Or if you want to reach out a little bit longer, you can also send us an email at Whispers in the Wings Podcast at gmail.com. All of that is in the show notes below. Thank you so much for joining me today on Whispers in the Wings. Do you have any final words for our listeners before you go?

[25:34] Tom Rogers: Stand by please. LX111.

[25:39] Joshua Broadbent: Thank you very much, everyone, for listening, and thank you again, Tom. I'll see you next time.

[25:43] Tom Rogers: Thanks, Josh. Bye.