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[0:35] Joshua Broadbent: Hello, you are listening to a brand new episode of Whispers in the Wings. This week with special guest, Annah Jacobs.

[0:46] Joshua Broadbent: Members of the Whispers in the Wings community, this is your Act One Beginners Call, your Act One Beginners Call. Thank you.

[0:55] Joshua Broadbent: Hello there, listener. Welcome to another episode. This week, as you heard at the start there, I am joined by very special guest Annah Jacobs, who is a New Zealand stage manager. Really excited for you to listen to this episode. Before we dive in, let's take a listen to her bio.

[1:11] Joshua Broadbent: Anna is a stage manager from Ōtautahi, New Zealand with a passion for children's theatre and theatre for young audiences. You'll find her amongst Shrek, Madagascar, Zeus's Catamahat, amongst other musicals, plays and festivals. After graduating with her bachelor's in performing arts management, she completed a grad certificate in project management and began focusing her research efforts into creating access to the arts and the importance of theatre for young people. She's most comfortable when calling a show and on the road touring with the people she loves. Hi AJ, welcome to the podcast.

[1:38] Annah Jacobs: Hi, thank you for having me.

[1:40] Joshua Broadbent: You are so welcome. So happy you're here. One of the most requested things that I get is people want to hear from other stage managers around the world. And one person in particular, I don't have their name in front of me, wanted to find out the differences between sort of Australian stage managers and New Zealand stage managers, which is why I thought I'd reach out to you.

[1:58] Annah Jacobs: I'm actually really interested in that as well. I feel like New Zealand stage managers have such a mix of Australia and UK.

[2:05] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I've already found lots of differences from listening to other episodes.

[2:11] Annah Jacobs: Yes, well, I was gonna say, you messaged me the other day and you went, I've just listened to your spiking episode, which I know our listeners are probably really sick of me talking about spiking, but you said you're so surprised that we don't use electrical tape.

[2:24] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, like how I feel like electrical tape is so much more accessible and cheap.

[2:30] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, well that's the thing, it is a lot cheaper. It is quicker though with cloth tape to just rip it off and put it on instead of like I'm currently doing a show at Carriage Works, which is a heritage listed building, so we can't use the cloth tape. And I had to mark up the backstage area, you know, there's hazers and some costume racks and stuff. And what I did was put down, you know, electrical tape, but I pulled it too tight so that like I know it's suddenly pull it out and then walk it in. I think I've learned that now.

[3:02] Annah Jacobs: So it started like lifting on our ends and then started rolling in and so I fixed all that, but then I because it was grey, I didn't have any white, I then had to put the white cloth tape over the top.

[3:11] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my gosh, that's an expensive exercise.

[3:15] Annah Jacobs: I know I learned that same lesson though, like walking it out, especially if you're in like a perimeter. First time I didn't like walk it back in and the whole thing was like folded in in a rehearsal. Like it's backstage.

[3:30] Joshua Broadbent: Oh, you do? Okay, so yeah, so hazes and all that. I always use a white gas. Um and then on stage for spikes of electrical tape.

[3:39] Annah Jacobs: And do you use like do you cut the electrical tape or is it still the full like thickness?

[3:43] Annah Jacobs: So I cut it, so I pull it out, cut it in half, and then cut it in half again.

[3:48] Joshua Broadbent: Right.

[3:48] Annah Jacobs: Make it into an L and then I stick them all around my case. Ready to go so it doesn't take ages.

[3:55] Joshua Broadbent: See, that's the thing for me with the cloth tape is that all you have to do is rip it and put it down. So you've sort of saved so much time. And then obviously some shows I've done where I've also used paint pens. Like if the if it's a touring show, nothing's gonna change. It's just how it is. Wizard of Oz, we end up pulling up all the spike marks and using like thin lined of like those paint pens just to make it nice and clear.

[4:18] Annah Jacobs: Then do you repaint the floor or so those shows the deck comes with the show, so it's sort of tours around. So it's it whatever it's scenic as that is it complete. Um so then we do the paint pens and then to secure that paint pen so that it doesn't rub off when they're in mopping or even just the moving over, we then put clear nail polish over the top of it.

[4:39] Joshua Broadbent: I love that.

[4:40] Annah Jacobs: If we toured with our show deck, I would definitely do that.

[4:43] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, it's a lot easier. It's a lot easier. And what if you have to move something, Mike? Is it quite well it's it's that sort of thing on all of the shows that I've done that we've done these, like they're very set, like nothing nothing changes.

[4:54] Annah Jacobs: It's it's how it is.

[4:56] Joshua Broadbent: That is the dream.

[4:58] Annah Jacobs: That is the dream. So speaking of touring, you've spent a bit of time touring around New Zealand with Shrek and Madagascar and a few other things. What is tour life like in New Zealand? How many cities do you go to? How long do you spend in places?

[5:15] Annah Jacobs: Um, yeah, no, it depends on the show. For example, with Shrek at the moment, it's just two cities at four. So this one that we're heading off on this week is Christchurch and Wellington, one week each. But it depends. So for Cat in the Hat, we actually did 14 cities in 14 days, which is wild.

[5:42] Joshua Broadbent: Sorry, did you say for Cat in the Hat you did 14 cities in 14 days?

[5:46] Annah Jacobs: So you're in a new venue each day?

[5:49] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, that was wild. Absolutely wild. Across the whole country as well. Which you think was tiny, but that blows my mind because it it sort of sounds, you know, very similar to a North American tour where they're in a city for one week and then the next, you know, that they move around a lot. I don't see that happening for those big shows. I see like plays and stuff could possibly do that, but that I'm my I'm my my head hurts from like the logistics.

[6:15] Joshua Broadbent: So it's like a fifty minute show for kids. Um really quite pack in and pack out, but still wild.

[6:22] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, I guess like the logistics around all of that is a nightmare. And for you as a stage manager, what sort of like logistics do you look after in terms of that? Obviously you'd have a production manager or someone above you handling like the bigger elements, but what's your sort of responsibilities within those transfers?

[6:41] Annah Jacobs: For stuff like that, I do I do on probably more than a normal management role because it's a it's really like family company and it's awesome. Like whatever I want to be involved with a may let me, which is which is wonderful. But um, yeah, just the logistics and then the packing in, getting the show up, of course, running off the show and then down.

[7:08] Joshua Broadbent: That's so great. And I I love that you get involved with whatever you kind of want to, because I feel like as stage managers we sometimes sort of just go, Oh, well, this is you know, this is my lane, I'm gonna stick there. But it's always great to sort of step out of that because that's when you learn more and you sort of show your value and your worth to production companies and other people and and I think it's really valuable that we do that. And the more you know and are aware of, the more it informs what you're doing in the show and it's really helpful.

[7:37] Annah Jacobs: I did experience recently, I worked with a different company who was amazing, but very much this is your job and that's what you do. And it was different because I did have more headspace for other things, but yeah, also wasn't informed about certain things I would normally know about.

[7:54] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I think I think that's really vital on any production for a stage manager to just sort of have that very big sort of overlay look of everything that happens because at the end of the day, we are the ones that sort of join all of those departments, join all of those people together to put on that show. Like everyone sort of comes to that middle ground and us being the middle. So being able to understand all of those other elements is is really vital for what we do.

[8:21] Annah Jacobs: Definitely, yeah, to be that conduit between all of the departments and then the show.

[8:28] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, it's really important to know what what's going on with everyone.

[8:31] Annah Jacobs: Yeah.

[8:32] Joshua Broadbent: So one of the questions that I I got a lot when we started the podcast was about sort of university and our experiences and you know what the courses are like, because a lot of the listeners to the podcast are people that are interested in getting into stage management or within theatre itself. What was the bachelor's course like? How many years? What does it sort of break down? Is it practical? More theory?

[8:54] Annah Jacobs: Um, yeah, I did a three year bachelor's. The course doesn't even exist anymore.

[8:59] Annah Jacobs: Okay. It's very tech, so you know, rigging lighting, sounds just getting an overview of all departments. Second year, more stage management. And then third year you'd specialize and decide if you wanted to be a lighting designer or stage manager or what have you and then do more internships and running of the show.

[9:22] Annah Jacobs: Um but it was only plays. So no music theatre, a bit of dance, but music theatre is my passion. So I'd had no experience in it until I actually left university. So but it was helpful in you know learning how to lay out a script, um meeting people in the industry. But um I definitely don't think that you need to study to be in the industry or to to be a stage manager. I I know for a fact that I could have done all of that without university. It was just one route to get there.

[9:55] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah there's so many so many ways of getting into this industry and we learnt that with my last guest uh Tom Rogers because he hasn't studied and he's gone from you know that community theatre into being like a super swing within professional productions. So after you did your bachelor's you then did a grad certificate in project management. Was that to sort of just help you take that next step into sort of the running of shows and festivals and plays and stuff?

[10:23] Annah Jacobs: That was purely because COVID hit. So that was twenty twenty.

[10:28] Annah Jacobs: Okay. I thought COVID wasn't gonna take any longer than eight months. Yeah, yes. I thought, what am I gonna do? We had just had an Australia tour cancelled. I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? Like I'll do this grad search. It'll help with with with my career make who knows, but it'll give me some and it turned out to be so incredibly helpful. Just learning about like different types of leadership, uh scheduling and it was really sort of an academic view of, you know, project management. And I don't think I thought it was gonna be as helpful as it was, but yeah no I really really value what I learned.

[11:10] Joshua Broadbent: Oh that's so great. I'm sorry that your tour got cancelled and I totally understand we were all the same here. I was on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory at the time and it was that thing of yep we'll just we'll just see how it plays, we'll see how it plays, we'll see how it plays and got to a point where they're like yeah K is your you know termination letter we're no longer going ahead. It's like oh okay. So that's a real real big shame that you didn't end up coming to Australia. Is that something that you're you're sort of interested in in in touring sort of internationally?

[11:38] Annah Jacobs: Yeah definitely I just think there's so much to learn overseas as well but yeah we went to Australia finally last in April which was such a luxury because New Zealand was so in the depths of COVID.

[11:54] Annah Jacobs: Yeah I hadn't seen someone without a mask on in months and months. Then we got to Australia and people were like take your mask off.

[12:04] Joshua Broadbent: Oh my god Okay it was yeah it was a real luxury but yeah we will hopefully take uh Shrek overseas probably not to Australia but perhaps back with Cat in the Hat.

[12:17] Annah Jacobs: Oh, that's so exciting. Well you must tell me if you do and if you are here. I see value in upskilling constantly. Do you and and obviously the cert that you did, you got a lot more out of it. Would you consider is there anything else, other courses that you would look at that may help you sort of further that or do you think that's sort of where you'll leave it for now?

[12:37] Annah Jacobs: In terms of sort of structured study, I don't know if I would. I might one day go back to my masters, which I stopped halfway through when COVID started. Otherwise constant upskilling in just like little courses. The theatre art life website has lots of stage management courses and that sort of thing. But structured study I don't think so at the moment.

[13:03] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[13:03] Annah Jacobs: But definitely upskilling.

[13:05] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, upskilling is is so great. And I do want to do an episode soon on resources and sort of those places you can find all of that. So that episode will be coming soon eventually. We'll we'll see. Just keep your keep your ears out for that one.

[13:21] Joshua Broadbent: So you mentioned in your bio that you've started focusing research efforts into creating access to the arts. What are some really important steps that we can take as stage managers or even just within theatre to help make theatre more accessible, especially for young people?

[13:36] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, I think ensuring that everyone get to go, right? And in the cast of kids that you have and giving different roles to different people. But also I think it's really important and maybe not as a stage manager, maybe if just an arts practitioner in that room to have a look around and see who's missing from the room. You know, who never even got to make it to the room. And I think that that's kind of where my research and and passion is is like who's missing and why and how can we create access for them?

[14:15] Annah Jacobs: I think that's really important, especially, you know, starting it in children's theatre and helping those young children that are interested in theatre to make sure that everyone is represented. You know, if you're yourself looking around the room and going, "Oh, I can see what we need to do next time," the children are gonna also be seeing that and you don't want anyone to feel discluded and all of that. So it's really important to go to those efforts to make sure everyone's represented and it's not just children's theatre, it's also like adults and all of the sort of stuff that's been happening within our industry to make sure that everyone's seen, everyone is heard. It's so important and I think we need to see that shift within theatre at the moment and we are seeing that shift. It just seems to be taking a really long time and there's kind of no excuse for that.

[15:06] Joshua Broadbent: You're right, and I feel like it's hard to expect to see diversity and everyone represented as adults when they haven't had the chance as kids to even grow up in the theatre. If you have all of these certain people who have had the money for ballet, food, or classes or all of that growing up, of course they're going to be ready for these bigger roles as adults and I just feel like it's very unfair for certain people as adults because they didn't maybe have that chance as kids. So I think it's important to make those changes when they're young and give them a good chance.

[15:47] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, I couldn't agree anymore. Really great to hear that that's something that you're focusing on.

[15:52] Joshua Broadbent: Thank you. So AJ, there's one question that I ask all of the guests. What is one really valuable resource or item that's sort of within your stage management toolbox, whether it's a physical item or something, you know, electronic, digitally? What is that one item that you can't live without as a stage manager?

[16:15] Annah Jacobs: Oh let me look at my kit. Probably what actually gets used mostly is a notebook and a pen. Yeah. All the time. If I'm doing my measurements for my spikes, I'm writing them down. If someone tells me something, I'm writing it down. Notes during the show, I'm gonna write it down physically. Um yeah I know that's such a boring answer. Let me find something.

[16:39] Joshua Broadbent: It's not a boring answer because I have an iPad. I've had an iPad for years and I keep wanting to use it more within theatre. Like I want to use it to replace my notebook but I just can't move past our notebook and pen.

[16:55] Annah Jacobs: Do you use a digital script?

[16:57] Joshua Broadbent: So I no, so what I do is I will typically have my prompt copy once everything's locked into place, once you know, show stops moving. I then create a digital copy of that and then I'll print that digital copy because it's nice and neat, you know, nice clean lines, it's all pretty but I would never rely on an iPad or a laptop as my calling script.

[17:23] Annah Jacobs: Do you? No? Okay great. I was like, oh my god, I'm saying all of this and you're gonna be like, I do! I actually love it.

[17:32] Joshua Broadbent: I'm such a physical script gal.

[17:35] Annah Jacobs: But I think I would like, I don't even change over to a digital one afterwards.

[17:40] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[17:41] Annah Jacobs: I probably just need to like actually give it a go.

[17:44] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah.

[17:45] Annah Jacobs: But I've just never done it.

[17:47] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah. I have been asked to do like a tutorial video on how to make, you know, a digital prompt copy because everyone sort of does it differently. I think there's a software that you can do it. I use the Apple program Pages to do it and it works for me, may not work for other people, there may be a quicker way. Keep your eye out, because I do want to make that tutorial at some point.

[18:08] Annah Jacobs: Oh, I would actually love that.

[18:11] Joshua Broadbent: So I think that brings us to the end of Act One. Let's take a little interval break.

[18:18] Annah Jacobs: Do you wait, do you call it interval or intermission?

[18:20] Joshua Broadbent: Intermission.

[18:21] Annah Jacobs: Okay, we'll do it. But people would call it interval and I wouldn't deny my list.

[18:25] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, okay, we'll talk about that later.

[18:27] Annah Jacobs: Uh we'll see you after the break.

[18:36] Joshua Broadbent: We'll talk about this later.

[18:37] Annah Jacobs: We'll talk about this later. I got told by a head mech one day, I said intermission, he went, "No, that's American." And I went, "Oh, okay." All right, interval it is. That's the thing about New Zealand though is everything is just American, Australia and British combined.

[18:56] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of great though, because you get to take what you want and what works out of each of those things and just make it work, make it happen.

[19:06] Annah Jacobs: Or just get really confused.

[19:08] Joshua Broadbent: Or just get really confused.

[19:11] Annah Jacobs: Yes, this is very true. Interval. That just sounds like primary school, like we have your morning tea interval.

[19:25] Joshua Broadbent: Members of the Whispers in the Wings community, this is your Act Two Beginner School, your Act Two Beginner School.

[19:30] Annah Jacobs: Thank you.

[19:32] Joshua Broadbent: Welcome back to Act Two. We are laughing because AJ, you just told me that you had a live baby in one of the shows you've done recently.

[19:42] Annah Jacobs: And then we determined that you don't really need to say it's alive, but it helps me to understand that it was a real baby.

[19:49] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, as opposed to a doll.

[19:50] Annah Jacobs: I didn't, yeah.

[19:53] Joshua Broadbent: So tell me about this. What show was it and what was this baby? Why was this baby there?

[19:57] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, so it's the last show that I did, it was a play, so it wasn't a musical, but yeah, we had a baby in it for a scene. The show was very meta, so it was about a show and the fact that the man was very much in the scene, was very much playing the character of boyfriend and but the writer was kind of falling out of the scene and so the baby was brought on by the ASN and he's like, "Oh, you know, it's our baby," and she's like, "That's not our baby. That baby belongs to the woman in the wings." Yeah, then the set just starts to fall to pieces, which was terrifying, with a baby on stage.

[20:36] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, of course.

[20:37] Annah Jacobs: And then the mum comes and takes the baby back and they go home.

[20:41] Joshua Broadbent: What are the sort of logistics and rules around having a baby in a show like that?

[20:49] Annah Jacobs: I think in film there are like laws, but not in theatre in New Zealand. But basically we just did a baby tech. So we had a different baby pretty much every single night.

[20:59] Joshua Broadbent: Right.

[21:00] Annah Jacobs: So they were assigned two shows. You know, three week season. So every new baby we would do a baby tech, so we would walk them through in working lights, what was happening, and then I would drop the set pieces and they would come on and take the baby and then that was it. Then we'd do it for real in the show.

[21:24] Joshua Broadbent: This sounds wild.

[21:26] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, the first time we had a baby as well was on opening nights. We 'cause we just had like a doll through rehearsals.

[21:32] Joshua Broadbent: You're made.

[21:33] Annah Jacobs: Yeah. I guess I have many questions about this in my mind. I guess my one of my questions is does the audience notice? Do they know that it's a real baby? Do you know those sort of things where you could just swap it out for a prop and no one's really noticing?

[21:48] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, no, very, very much audience knew. Like, you know, the baby would come on and the hand it just 'cause it's a play, it's very intimate, you know, it's very quiet. So the handover of the baby and then the baby would gurgle and it's right next to the actor's mic.

[22:02] Annah Jacobs: Sure.

[22:03] Joshua Broadbent: Or cry, scream, do what it wants to. It's so unpredictable, but I guess that was also a part of that show and like it. Yeah, whatever the baby wanted to do was right.

[22:12] Annah Jacobs: Yeah. And then yeah, the audience you would know once they kinda got that it was real. There'd just be this like, "Oh," across everyone.

[22:21] Joshua Broadbent: Wow.

[22:22] Annah Jacobs: Yeah. And I remember the first time I dropped the set. The whole audience.

[22:25] Joshua Broadbent: So you dropped the baby.

[22:26] Annah Jacobs: No, the first time I dropped the baby. First time I dropped the set, everyone was like gasped and I was like, "Oh my god, something's happened, what's wrong?" But I just never had an audience before while having a baby on. And so I like paused and I was like, "Oh my god, what's going on?" And I was like, "No, that's part of it," and then it's like a wall falling down and then like the baby is a meter or two away.

[22:48] Joshua Broadbent: But that's true. That just stresses me out so much.

[22:51] Annah Jacobs: I'll send you some pictures, yeah.

[22:53] Joshua Broadbent: Oh please, but now you can be like, I did a show with a baby. Like, you know, yeah. Take that off the list.

[22:57] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, and never put it back on the list.

[22:59] Joshua Broadbent: Never put it back on the list.

[23:00] Annah Jacobs: No.

[23:01] Joshua Broadbent: Alrighty. So welcome back to Act Two. So this is a section of the podcast where we answer questions from the audience and I have picked two out today and we are going to answer them. So the first question comes today from Claire and they ask, how have you found the stage manager role change with COVID safety responsibilities added in?

[23:19] Annah Jacobs: Um that's a great question. I think that it depends on what company that you're working with and if they have certain people already taking care of COVID stuff, in which case your role shouldn't change. In the last show that I did, it was my responsibility to check everyone's temperature every single time they came into the rehearsal room. That was it, it was in a healthy range and also to verbally check that everyone had taken a rat test that day. I didn't need to see the rat test but just to hear that they had taken it. That was kind of as far as my COVID responsibilities went in that show. But that is also the most that I've ever had to do really. In my show at the moment someone else kind of takes that on.

[24:08] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I don't really feel like much has changed for me and my responsibilities with COVID. Um because we kinda can't really do much unless things are okay with COVID. We can't really put on shows unless you know we're able to, in which case there isn't much to be done.

[24:27] Annah Jacobs: Yeah, I think that it's the same for us over here in that, you know, all of pretty much every show that's on at the moment has a COVID safety officer. So someone that's specific for that. So that, you know, it takes that pressure off the stage managers or company managers or anyone having to sort of take responsibility on that at someone specific. And that's what I did for Nine to Five. I think the only sort of things as a stage manager that, you know, we're sort of aware of and not so much that, you know, responsibilities have been added in, is just that sort of the more cleaning of items, you know, like props and stuff would get cleaned a couple of times a week, but now it's like sometimes before the show, after the show and limiting the number of people touching, you know, things in handoffs and stuff and all of that. It's just, I think more now being aware of it.

[25:15] Joshua Broadbent: Totally. So our next question comes from Alexandra and they ask, what is one thing or a couple of things you wish you knew before you started?

[25:24] Annah Jacobs: Um I wish that I knew that there were so many ways of doing something and that because I think that would have saved me a lot of anxiety of feeling like I was doing it wrong all the time and then not trying because I was like, "Ah, I'm doing it wrong." But there are so many ways of doing things and I've only learned that by working with so many other people, so many stage managers, so many wonderful crew members who have the confidence to just do what they know how to do and then I can go, "Oh here's an easy way to do that." Or I can go, "Oh my gosh, that's so smart." So just knowing that there are so many ways of doing something I think would have really helped open me up to more. What else?

Just standing strong and what I do know and also, and just being a five-foot tall woman, just rock it. Be strong in what you know and don't let people walk all over you. Probably about it. I mean, there's so many things, but I think for me it falls under that same sort of thing, you know, knowing that there's multiple ways of doing things, but also it's okay to not know. You know, it's okay to go into somewhere and go, "Sorry, I actually don't know what you mean," rather than trying to just stumble your way through fixing a problem or doing a task and then getting to the end and then, you know, that's that sort of thing of, "Well, you didn't do it right." And you're like, "Oh, well, this is what I thought I was doing." And people love to help. If you just say, "Oh, I don't know how to do that, would you mind showing me? I'd love to learn from you." People will take the time and they love to teach you.

[26:58] Joshua Broadbent: Yeah, I think that's really valuable. Well, AJ, thank you so much for joining me on today's episode. It's been really lovely to speak to you and get to learn some little differences there between Australia and New Zealand. And I'm sure we could talk for many more hours about many more things.

[27:13] Annah Jacobs: Oh no, thank you so much for having me. I've had an absolute blast.

[27:17] Joshua Broadbent: So, AJ, where can people find you if they want to connect with you?

[27:19] Annah Jacobs: Um, you can find me over on Instagram, @aj.backstage.

[27:29] Joshua Broadbent: Well, yes, if you do want to know any more about AJ or her life in New Zealand and as a stage manager, please do reach out. And if you enjoyed listening to this episode of Whispers in the Wings, please leave a rating or review wherever you're finding this podcast. And I will see you next time. Bye bye.

[27:36] Whispers in the Wings acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea, and community. We pay our respects to elders, past, present, and future. We acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded, always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.