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[0:07] Laura Bell Bundy: Welcome to the Women of Tomorrow Podcast.

[0:11] Laura Bell Bundy: April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month.

[0:13] Laura Bell Bundy: This episode requires a content warning, because in this episode, we will be discussing sexual assault.

[0:20] Laura Bell Bundy: This podcast is for all genders.

[0:22] Laura Bell Bundy: The more educated we are, the better advocates we will become.

[0:26] Laura Bell Bundy: So listen, on behalf of every woman in your life.

[0:29] Laura Bell Bundy: Statistics show that one in six U.S. women will be raped annually in the U.S.

[0:34] Laura Bell Bundy: These perpetrators are not the mythical villains lurking in alleyways.

[0:39] Laura Bell Bundy: Over 1.5 million women were raped by an intimate partner in 2019.

[0:44] Laura Bell Bundy: This requires everyone's help and everyone's attention.

[0:48] Laura Bell Bundy: Less than 20% of rapes are reported.

[0:52] Laura Bell Bundy: In this episode, we hope to empower the voices that have not yet been heard.

[1:00] Laura Bell Bundy: And then at the bottom of the article, after I learned about the graphic details of my own sexual assault, the article listed his swimming times.

[1:10] Laura Bell Bundy: She was found breathing unresponsive with her underwear six inches away from her, her bare stomach curled in fetal position.

[1:19] Laura Bell Bundy: By the way, he's really good at swimming.

[1:50] Laura Bell Bundy: The judge agreed, saying he feared prison would have had a severe impact on the rapist.

[1:57] Laura Bell Bundy: The entire trial included comments about how this was going to ruin the rapist's dreams of swimming in the Olympics.

[2:06] Laura Bell Bundy: Never mind the victim's dreams that were ruined by the actions of a rapist.

[2:19] Laura Bell Bundy: Her statement has educated and informed and deeply changed people in ways she will probably never know.

[2:28] Laura Bell Bundy: We now know that Jane Doe is Chanel Miller, and we thank her for using her voice because her words are what inspired Red Rover.

[3:01] ♪ Musical number: "Red Rover" — performed by Paige Adams-Geller ♪

[6:00] Laura Bell Bundy: Paige Adams-Geller is creative director and co-founder of Paige, the fashion company she co-founded in 2004.

[6:08] Laura Bell Bundy: The former model started the company after realizing that most denim companies were owned and run by men.

[6:15] Laura Bell Bundy: She now employs 300 people and has 15 stores and an e-commerce site.

[6:20] Laura Bell Bundy: Her line is in Nordstrom's, Anthropologie, Shopbop, and so many more.

[6:23] Laura Bell Bundy: With the help of her leadership and vision, what started as a women's denim brand quickly expanded into a full lifestyle collection for men and women, sold at premium retailers internationally.

[6:35] Laura Bell Bundy: Today, she sits at the helm of Paige, continuing to lead with her commitment to cutting-edge design and passion for creating pieces that you will live in.

[6:43] Laura Bell Bundy: Adams Geller's true passion in life is inspiring and empowering others.

[6:49] Laura Bell Bundy: She is a dedicated board member of the Rate Foundation, on the Board of Counselors for Annenberg School at USC, a member of Rain's National Leadership Council, a trained volunteer at the Stewart's House, and a proud supporter of many other charitable organizations, including the National Eating Disorders Association and the Advit Project.

[7:06] Laura Bell Bundy: We are also so proud to have her as a board member of the Women of Tomorrow Foundation.

[7:13] Laura Bell Bundy: Paige, your story is all too familiar. In an article you wrote for Vogue about your experience with sexual assault and rape, you said, "my rapist was an all-star athlete, good looking, charming, a mama's boy."

[7:27] Laura Bell Bundy: He had ambition and landed a stellar job after graduating university with honors.

[7:32] Laura Bell Bundy: He had a future that girls would dream of living.

[7:34] Laura Bell Bundy: And so I held on to my secret and the shame.

[7:38] Laura Bell Bundy: But your story is familiar for other reasons too.

[7:41] Laura Bell Bundy: Because just as Chanel Miller, Jane Doe, has used her voice to make a difference and empower others, you have used your voice to do the same.

[7:52] Laura Bell Bundy: And we are so, so grateful that you have joined us here to share your voice on our Women of Tomorrow podcast and on our board of Women of Tomorrow.

[8:04] Laura Bell Bundy: I would like to make a trigger warning and create an environment of safety, of consent and vulnerability here on the podcast.

[8:12] Laura Bell Bundy: If there's anything that we are discussing, I want to give our listeners the opportunity to pause.

[8:20] Laura Bell Bundy: I want to also, this means that Paige, I want you to feel comfortable talking about what you want to talk about, and I want you to feel comfortable not talking about what you don't want to talk about.

[8:32] Laura Bell Bundy: So please, if at any point you need a moment, or if I ask any questions you aren't comfortable with, I want you to feel safe and empowered and to tell me that you need a moment or that you want to move on to the next question, would like a different question.

[8:47] Laura Bell Bundy: And like I said, I'm coming to this space with a lot of my own vulnerability too.

[8:51] Laura Bell Bundy: If I'm being honest, I have a little anxiety that I'll say the wrong thing or I'll step at it unintentionally by asking things that are way too hurtful or harmful.

[9:01] Laura Bell Bundy: So this is such an important topic, and I want to do it right.

[9:05] Paige Adams-Geller: Thank you, Laura. I also know we don't learn and we don't grow, and we can't make societal change if we aren't willing to get vulnerable and talk and share a space like this.

[9:18] Paige Adams-Geller: So I want to step into this conversation boldly and courageously with our spirits and the spirit that I've seen from you.

[9:27] Paige Adams-Geller: So thank you for being here with me today.

[9:32] Laura Bell Bundy: Some of our listeners will have read your Vogue article, and others may not have.

[9:37] Laura Bell Bundy: So before I jump into the questions I've prepared, I want to just open this space for you to use your voice, how you feel called to right now, and share about your experiences and journey however you feel comfortable, Paige.

[9:49] Paige Adams-Geller: Anything you want to start with?

[9:51] Paige Adams-Geller: Anywhere I want to start.

[9:57] Paige Adams-Geller: And um to have the opportunity to share more of my heart and soul on a topic that I think is so important to discuss.

[10:06] Paige Adams-Geller: Um you know, I was raised in a little tiny town in the middle of nowhere in Alaska called Wasilla, and um a place where there was no place to go get help, or no place that I was aware of to go get help.

[10:24] Paige Adams-Geller: And um, when I was 16, I was raped by the man that you talked about, and um it was a situation where I had known him and had known his family well, and I always felt a little bit stalked and a little bit pressured to get together with him and uh spend time with him, and I felt like I had a stalker, and um eventually was tired of feeling that I had this person that was stalking me and lurking me and asking me and harassing me and wanting to spend time with me and wanting to see me, and so I eventually agreed to get together with him.

[11:10] Paige Adams-Geller: And I thought maybe if I did, if I let him pick me up and we went on a drive, that maybe it would just be a conversation I could have with him, and then maybe he would go away.

[11:21] Paige Adams-Geller: And long story short, um, I ended up going with him in a car, and he ended up taking me to this beautiful lake in this beautiful part of Alaska.

[11:33] Paige Adams-Geller: And next thing you know, I was locked in the car, seatbelt was put around me, and I was pinned down and I was raped.

[11:41] Paige Adams-Geller: And I'll never forget that feeling of desperation with someone.

[11:46] Paige Adams-Geller: I was thin, I was tiny, I was like maybe a little over a hundred pounds at the time.

[11:52] Paige Adams-Geller: And there's this big six foot four athlete, super strong, and uh there was nothing I could do to get away.

[11:59] Paige Adams-Geller: I fought, I said no, I kicked, I screamed, I tried to get away and out of the situation, and um I had no chance.

[12:08] Paige Adams-Geller: Um all I could remember in the aftermath was uh personality of someone pretending like nothing happened from his end, and me being traumatized and unable to speak and shook up, and basically I was taken back home and dropped off at my house, and that was that.

[12:27] Paige Adams-Geller: And uh, you know that you hear in stories so many times that the first thing that someone wants to do after that happens is just wash away the disgusted feeling and the dirt and to make everything go away.

[12:40] Paige Adams-Geller: And I remember going into my house and going up, and the first thing I wanted to do is just take a shower and I couldn't talk, and there was nothing I could do, and I had no understanding of what had just happened, and I was just numb.

[12:54] Paige Adams-Geller: And to be honest, it's like this person who was my mom's best friend's son, and um I couldn't even imagine like telling anybody anything because I felt like it was my fault that I had agreed to go, that I'd given in and said yes, and just really painful, painful situation.

[13:13] Paige Adams-Geller: And for 13 years I kept that secret inside because as I said, I was from a tiny town.

[13:21] Paige Adams-Geller: I didn't know of any place to go to get help.

[13:25] Paige Adams-Geller: I was afraid to say something to my mom because it was my mom's best friend's son.

[13:29] Paige Adams-Geller: I was afraid to say anything to friends because I felt like I would be judged, and you know, it was so different back then, and it uh something that sat with me for 13 years before I was able to finally break the silence, and a moment that I will never forget, and a moment that was a life sentence for me.

[13:50] Paige Adams-Geller: You know, this person got away scot-free, and um, in the song Red Rover, what really really hit me was the life sentence for me.

[13:58] Paige Adams-Geller: It's like no one thinks about the fact that, like, oh, he does something for 20 minutes of his time, and for the rest of my life, it's a violation that you can't shake.

[14:09] Paige Adams-Geller: You can heal from, but it never goes away completely.

[14:15] Paige Adams-Geller: And you know, from your article that you wrote, so many different areas of your life and your way that you had relationships were affected by this moment in this event in your life.

[14:33] Paige Adams-Geller: And that really is a life sentence. All of that.

[14:36] Paige Adams-Geller: And another thing that I think that is a common misconception about sexual assault and rape is that it's somebody that it's a stranger lurking in an alley.

[14:48] Paige Adams-Geller: It's people that we know.

[14:49] Paige Adams-Geller: You know, it's your uncle, it's your piano teacher, it's your, you know, I mean, it's people, it's your priest, you know, it's these people that you think you can trust.

[15:00] Paige Adams-Geller: We don't prepare people for that. We say, okay, let's go take a self-defense class. But what's the self-defense against someone that's in your family? We don't really talk about that. It's so true. You don't prepare. Um, you know, it's always stranger danger that you talk about. Like, don't talk to strangers, this is what's gonna happen to you. And if you talk to strangers, this can happen to you. But like knowing that it's someone that that you trust or felt safe with, or they've groomed you to feel safe with them, or you know, it is a family friend and all of those things, it's more often than not that scenario where uh where a person gets raped. And one of the other things I was thinking about when I was thinking about not asking for help or not knowing where to go for help, or no one ever discussing this or warning me or preparing me for anything like this that could happen.

You know, my mom would always say, if I drank, you know, someone could put something in your drink and you know, be careful of those types of things, but never, never this scenario. And um at the time too, I was I was Miss Teen Alaska, and you know, had been homecoming queen and was in the limelight too. And the first thing I thought of, if I said anything to anybody, like this would be all over the newspapers and all over, you know, the local papers, and it would be publicized, and I would be humiliated even more and feel worse than it already did. And that scared the crap out of me because, you know, especially in in that type of situation in my life, you know, you're supposed to be a good girl, and and I thought that this was my fault and it would make me look bad.

And that's just so sad. It's so sad that so many of us have to go through those feelings of shame and blame. And uh, you know, it's often the victim blaming and the victim having to prove herself um instead of the other way around.

[17:03] Paige Adams-Geller: Which is a whole other set of trauma, right? You have the traumatic event, and then you have the trauma of trying to convince people it was real and that it wasn't your fault. In your article, you speak so openly and bravely about the impact of your rape and drinking to numb the pain, anorexia because you wanted to disappear, nightmares, isolation. Because how can you make friends when what happened has taught you that you can't trust anyone? And you shared that struggling with intimacy was one of the hardest consequences of your rape and that you've had to live with it. And it's uh it's one of the least talked-about ways that rape and sexual assault can impact survivors. Are there any other ways that your experience has impacted your life?

Those are the most powerful um side effects, you know, and uh consequences of this. But you know, I feel that um in general I've had a a lifelong coping mechanism, which is you know, these are all self-sabotaging behaviors, which were things that were the aftermath of trauma, but like the coping mechanism was just to kind of go to the default of something always being my fault.

[18:20] Paige Adams-Geller: And so, I mean, I've I've done a lot of healing and a lot of work, so I don't ever want to sound like I'm not giving anyone hope because there's so much hope and there's so many positive parts of my life now that that have have come to the other side of this. But my default mechanism is to always go to shame and blame. So when there's any kind of conflict around me, any kind of um of situation where I feel like um I pick up anger in a room or I pick up feelings in a room, I immediately go to shame and blame and think that I've done something. And it is it's weird that this is an overcurring situation and experience that I have, and I think it's something that is part of PTSD. Um, any kind of trigger that brings me to that moment of that feeling of that intensity, I go to this place of kind of it.

What did I do? Did I do something? And it's it's it's sad and it's hard, and I still work on it all the time, and I and I and I am a lot better, but um, it has had that that effect and impact on me, and PTSD can come up at any time. Like, you know, I'll be in like the best mood in the world and and things will be going great.

[19:37] Paige Adams-Geller: And part of this process was was the fact that I would, when I was kind of being stalked, um, or if not kind of, when I was being stalked, uh, the phone would ring constantly. I had I had my own phone in my bedroom, and I had my own phone number, and he would be calling, calling, calling, calling, calling. And uh it would be so triggering, and this was in the aftermath as well. He would call you in the aftermath. Yes, yes, and try to reach me and try to call me and want to see me again before I was getting ready to leave to go to college, and like there'd just be like this this it just didn't go away, it didn't stop. And I to this day have to put my phone on silent almost at all times because the sound of phones ringing too often is still uh PTSD um in the aftermath for me of the trauma.

And so people ask me all the time, why is your phone on silent? Like it's so hard to get a hold of you, and you know, it's that's one of the reasons. I can't, it's a big trigger for me of that time period in my life, and and it's it's crazy.

[20:44] Paige Adams-Geller: So there's little things like that that are that are that are feel huge in my body where where that that that feeling is stored, and um I guess finally too, those tri I'm uh of the other things that are kind of crazy is I'm absolutely absolutely obsessed with watching Law and Order Special Victims Unit. And I have I like probably it's probably the best thing for working out because if I'm on the treadmill, I want to put one of those in and I'll stay on the treadmill for the whole thing until they get the bad guy. I'm like, I am working out, I'm finishing this workout because I want to watch them get the bad guy, the rapist. It's like so it's like I can laugh about it now, but like I'm obsessed, obsessed with any stories, any movies, any um anything that's involved with the topic, and and uh and uh you know, I guess it's motivating because sometimes anger can propel forward movement into more healing.

And so using that anger, anger actually is a good propeller for forward movement. So anytime that kind of happens, I'm like, what else can I do to help someone else's life? You know, I gotta make sure that that people are aware that I'm here to help.

[21:51] Paige Adams-Geller: Well, I call it Dharma when your passion meets the way you're you move the world, and it's really amazing. Um in the Vogue article uh that you wrote, it came out before the pandemic, and I was curious did your experience impact the way you handled or coped with the pandemic. I know this is a a bizarre question, but the pandemic was a place for a lot of us that was slightly traumatizing. And I think it also put a lot of our emotions in a centrifuge. And I'm curious if some of the ways that you coped were triggered during the pandemic. I'm just curious what your take of it was. If it had any connection at all, if it just totally irrelevant, the question is relevant.

[22:37] Paige Adams-Geller: No, I actually think it's a brilliant question, really brilliant question, because going through a pandemic is a major trauma. None of us had ever been through a pandemic before. So I had never been through a rape before. And whenever there is something that causes fear and uncertainty and isolation and um curiosity and questions and not having answers and not knowing what it's going to feel like, what not knowing these long lasting effects of what is going to happen in this pandemic and what's going to happen to all of us. These were all things that my body and mind and spirit and soul were going through during that time of my life and the 13 years until I actually spoke about it and got rid of, you know, my secret and shared my secret. And so when I did go get help and actually start the healing process, um, I learned a lot of coping mechanisms and strategies and things that could really help me.

[23:40] Paige Adams-Geller: And you know, first thing I learned was to go and deal with trauma. And I got to take like a bataka stick and like literally beat the shit out of my attacker and scream and yell in therapy and like to, you know, take out all my anger and aggression on my attacker. And then uh was introduced to therapy for the first time because I'd never been to therapy, you know, talking about um things that were uncomfortable was not something that was normal in my family. Um I went to group therapy, I met other people that had suffered from the same trauma that I had been through, and then started to know that I'm not alone. And these were all things that were the same coping mechanisms I used as soon as the pandemic hit.

It's like, oh my God, I gotta connect. I need to be with my tribe. I need to have my women's group on Tuesday nights, and we can all get together and talk about this. I can yell and scream and get my frustrations out. I can drive down to the beach instead of beating up the pandemic with a bataka stick. It's like I drove down to the beach and I would roll down my window and just scream as loud as I possibly could because I was frustrated and angry and upset and you know, but it helped. And then, you know, really learning to um get out in nature and and hike and exercise and get out my frustrations that way. Those were all the same things that I did during the pandemic to release the tension and the anxiety and the stress.

[25:12] Paige Adams-Geller: And you know, so the it really does relate because getting rid of any kind of trauma, these are the types of things you have to do. You have to be connected with others, you have to to have support of others, you can't suffer in silence. You have to reach out and get help and ask questions and find these ways of getting the the tension out of your body so it doesn't eat you and cause you to do self-sabotaging behaviors like drink or eat too much or starve yourself or all of those other things that we do when when when we're suffering. I absolutely think we are all going to have these sort of after effects from the habits that we've picked up to cope with the pandemic. Like it's a whole other thing. It's like we're saying like you have this one trauma, and this trauma creates the silence of this, this inability to cope with the trauma, causes alcoholism, anorexia, and all of those things then have to be healed too.

[26:15] Paige Adams-Geller: It's it's a domino effect. You know, for me, the drinking was like I couldn't be intimate with someone unless I had a drink. I needed to numb myself out with alcohol in order to even, you know, think about having sex. And, you know, that that that was scary. And that was even like that in the beginning of my marriage. It was like I couldn't have sex with my husband unless I drank. And I was afraid that I would never be able to have sex if I if I took away the alcohol and you know, had real intimacy. Because you know, the word intimacy is, you know, also known as into me you see. And I didn't want anyone to see in like see me, like really see me. I mean, that like makes me cry. It's like into into me, you see.

And I'm like, I don't even know. If you really, if you really see me, you won't love me anymore. Like if you really see that deeply into my heart and soul, you're not gonna love me. And that was the hardest connection that I had to overcome, like really getting to that place where I could really let someone know all of me.

[26:32] Paige Adams-Geller: And you know, that way with friends too, those were hard things to overcome, that trust. Because when someone's telling you that they want to spend time with you and then they destroy you, it's a really effed up message. You're like, this person's saying they can't wait to see me and they want to spend time with me, even though they're harassing me. But like, why would they want to hurt me and then they want to hurt me? And then, you know, so then you equate someone who's obsessed with you or likes you or it, you know, with that with wanting to hurt you. But there's, you know, it's hope, it's amazing. It's like once you finally can peel off those layers and um get down deeper and really get to that connectivity.

Oh my God, that's the best gift in life and the best gift in life. And I wouldn't have made it through this pandemic without having those friendships and those relationships and those heart-to-heart conversations and having, you know, I think my husband and I even got closer during the pandemic than we've ever been. And that's such a beautiful gift.

[28:22] Paige Adams-Geller: Because vulnerability is beautiful. And I think that's what people are sometimes so afraid of. But the more someone's vulnerable with me, the more I'm attracted to them. I'm like, oh, look at them. They're they're expressing their soul, and like their soul is so beautiful. And everything becomes more about that deeper connectivity. And like that's really what we're looking for, I think, in life, for someone to kind of see you naked and just love everything about you. And you know, that that beauty has come out the other side of all the work that I've done. And it does take work, but but the healing is so beautiful.

[29:00] Paige Adams-Geller: What do you think was the real turning point for you to be able to be intimate again and to be able to be vulnerable with your husband? I think it's almost kind of like the more raw I became, and the more honest and authentic I became, the more love I would receive. And that wasn't what I expected. Like the more reciprocation I would get. And then the more he wanted, and then it just created this like bond that got closer and closer and closer. And I think the turning point for me was probably I think when you ultimately have, you know, a breakdown where you feel like you hit rock bottom.

[29:47] Paige Adams-Geller: I know for me when I felt like I kind of hit rock bottom where I was struggling with my eating disorder and was struggling with my trauma and struggling with other coping mechanisms and finally had a breakdown and was so raw, there was nothing left except for me to try to pick myself up from that breakdown. And there was beauty in that because that rawness and that person not leaving my side and only being there to want to help me get better and get through it. Um something that is irreplaceable. And when I felt like I had friends that they weren't running away, they weren't going anywhere. They only wanted to help and and and uh get me through the other side. I think that um on both ends with friends, deep friendships, and then with him not abandoning me, you know, having that fear of abandonment, and then him not going anywhere, I think was really kind of a breakthrough.

I think that hopefully that makes sense, but there is beauty in that breakdown. You know, sometimes you have to fall apart before you can like you know put yourself back together, and um it's it's okay to fall apart. It's it's normal, you know. Not all of us can keep everything together all the time. I don't know anyone that can keep everything together all the time. And there's beauty in that. And it's like you almost have to let yourself fall apart in order to see what all the pieces there are on the ground and which ones you want to put back into your being, and which ones you need to kind of look at and let go of. But it's amazing that you had supportive people in your life and you had someone who really loved you for everything.

Help seeking is such an important part of this discussion, whether we feel like we're worthy of seeking help, whether we'll be believed if we seek help, even knowing when and where to go to seek help. In your story, you mentioned that at the very beginning of your journey, you didn't seek help at all, and you kept this as a secret that you carried on your own. And later, when you did seek help, you found the rape trauma center in Santa Monica. You described your experience there as the most precious gift I have ever received. It's a beautiful, powerful, profound statement. Tell us more. What did you mean by that?

[32:04] Paige Adams-Geller: Um I think I have a tendency in my life, and I've had a tendency in my life to put everyone else around me ahead of myself. I was raised to be kind of like the hero of the family, if you will. You know, I'm gonna be the one that's gonna make everybody happy. Um, I'll sing, I'll dance, I'll do cartwheels. I just want to make everybody happy. And, you know, there's, you know, we have some depression in our family. We've had other instances of things that happened in my family of origin. And uh, you know, I just always felt that maybe if I was perfect and I did everything right, that mom and dad would be happy. I think that I and and people pleasing is just you know part of my MO, and it's a part of so many of us as women's MOs.

And I think I felt like for the first time in my life that I needed to, I was afraid to go away for 30 days. I didn't think I had 30 days to go away. I thought people would talk about me, what's wrong with her, did she have a mental breakdown? Like, you know, what what happened? And literally, like I figured that what do I have to lose? I'm already a mess and I've already fallen apart and I'm having a bit of a breakdown. And like I need to value myself enough. And I think what really happened was I was dating my husband at this time, and his daughter was 16 years old. And I thought to myself, like, if this happened to her, would I judge her? Would I shame her? Would I blame her? Would I value her enough to do anything that I possibly could to get her help?

Of course I would. So why don't I value myself that much? Why don't I have that enough respect for myself to do this one thing just for me? And that's when I picked up the phone and was like, I need to, I need to get help. And uh I needed to be there for myself and honor myself. And it really was the most precious gift that I've ever given because at this particular time, my husband didn't know this had happened to me. No one knew this happened to me. So he was kind of afraid that some of my behaviors of self-sabotage he didn't understand. He's like, maybe she doesn't want to be married to me. Maybe she's not happy. Like, I don't understand what she's going through. She's a little withdrawn, she's going through these things, and I don't get it.

And, you know, until I went to go get help, I was finally able to tell him, which was a big part of our healing in our in not that we had a messed up relationship, I don't mean it that way at all, but a healing in our intimacy and connectivity. And so it really was the best gift that I ever could have given myself. And I feel like anyone who does that, who finally values themselves enough to get help is so courageous and so brave. But that's the hardest part. And once you get through that, it gets easier, I promise. It's like that's the hardest thing is to either put pen to paper, pick up a phone, or reach out on a hotline and say, This happened to me, and I want help and I need help, and I deserve, deserve is the word. I deserve help.

[35:13] Paige Adams-Geller: Our board president is always reminding us, Emily, Dr. Emily Bonistal Postal, that healing isn't linear. You can't just go to therapy a few times and then be healed of trauma. It's not like that. It's it's it's not like it's something broken you can just fix. Trauma changes you, and some days you feel more healed than others, and some days you feel better than others, and all of that is normal. You had been carrying trauma for all those years on your own and in silence. As you were healing and working through the trauma, you talk about what kept you going: loving husband, support from family and friends, a community where you felt seen and validated, and a new spark of life took hold. Page is a brand was born out of the journey, the journey to find your purpose.

And I want to give you all the space to talk about Paige, to talk about, to talk about it as your passionate purpose and all of the thoughts and processing that went into designing your brand. But first, what do you walk us through what it was like going through that process and what it was like to be so self-aware and intentional with turning your pain into purpose?

[36:28] Paige Adams-Geller: So the journey was was really about seeking help and then finally honoring what happened to me. And then with being able to express this part, I have to mention that what happened was that I was raped when I was 16, but 13 years later, I was attacked in the workplace by a boss of mine, where I had a modeling contract. And so that attack triggered the intensity of emotions that finally got me to the place to get help. And when I went to the rape treatment center, then went away to heal trauma and deal with the eating disorder. The journey was really finding my voice, like feeling I had never had a voice in my life. And then all of a sudden, discovering my voice and wanting to take on my attacker and deciding that I deserved to take on the attacker who attacked me in the workplace.

And when that happened, I found more strength than I ever realized that I had. And while I was finding my voice, I felt a lot of creativity spark within me. Um, I had been modeling and acting and singing and um, you know, in the entertainment industry where I'd had a lot of those Me Too experiences. And this spark of creativity and energy in me, that anger that propelled me into forward movement, was I really I went to see a life coach and was like, I don't know what to do with this. And she was different than my therapist. And I was like, I don't know what to do with this energy, with this passion, with this drive, with this, I don't know, creative passion that's brewing inside of me. And we started really talking about how much I love fashion and how much I love that's really why I got into modeling to begin with, was my love of fashion and my love of creativity.

And uh I had an entrepreneurial experience in my family. My mom and dad were entrepreneurs at one time. And it sparked like this: like, if you were to have your own business, clothing business, you know, what what would it look like if you were to create your own clothing line? Was the question that my my life coach asked me. And I was like, Oh, I don't think I can do that. I didn't go to business school. You know, I did go to university at USC and studied journalism and communications and marketing and all these things. But she's like, But you have been around clothes your entire life. Why don't you, why don't you go home and do a homework assignment and come back and like tell me what it would look like?

And it was like that was that aha moment, that epiphany of, oh my God, everything I've ever been through in my life, this is all gonna make sense because I can then start a company where I could be the voice and I can have a safe work environment and I can be creative and I can use my passion and my creativity to express myself and tell my story and empower others and and have them a safe place. And it literally was like that moment that, like, oh, this is all making sense. Now I know why I've been on this journey and this is what I'm meant to do. And it literally was like the stars felt like they were in alignment and there was no turning back. It was like, this is what I have to do. This is what I've been driven to do, and this is this is what's happening.

And I've never looked back, and it's been, oh, now I'll cry again. The most amazing journey. It's like, you know, I get to wake up every day and have my voice and my creative expression brought to light in all the creative product that that we sell at Page, you know, from shoes, which I'm obsessed with, to sunglasses to clothing to hiring models to being mindful of what kind of models I'm hiring, to be inclusive when I'm hiring models, to be kind and and generous of spirit, and to watch women who started off as like, you know, assistants grow into head designers and buy their own houses. I've watched women get married, have babies in the company, and they're supporting their families. And it's like I'm seeing the magic happen, you know, 18, almost 18 years into starting the company.

And um, you know, it's it's been uh such a gift. And then it's also given me the opportunity to have a voice to sit on the board of the rape foundation, to sit on the board of Annenberg at USC and get women to make sure that they're you know strong and in getting a strong education, to sit on the board with you and and do this to have a voice now, and and and I have the opportunity to get to speak and help, which is really the passion that drives me. You know, money doesn't drive me. The the having a voice to help others and enrich others' lives, and it it makes me tick. That's what gets me up in the morning, gets me excited.

[41:27] Laura Bell Bundy: And you do that. You are doing so much to bring hope to this world. You've created a safe working environment for people to thrive. You serve on the board of the rape foundation. You mentor young women who've been through similar experiences. You speak at women's events, focusing on female empowerment. And your support of our efforts, both as a new board member, and through your and through your generosity in our collaboration, it gives me the extra push I need on tough days so that I can remember that the Women of Tomorrow Foundation really will be able to make a difference in people's lives. So thank you, Paige, for giving me that hope. And sitting where you are in your journey right now in this moment with all the healing work that you've put in and the accomplishments and success you've had. What are things that give you hope right now?

[42:14] Paige Adams-Geller: I feel it if we wanna use the analogy again of the fact that going through a pandemic is very is the trauma of what I felt like I went through. Um and having that breakdown, there's change that occurs and growth and uh healing. I feel like the world is being so shooken up at the moment. Um there's so many things that feel so ugly and so messy, but we're having a breakdown, and that is the opportunity, the biggest opportunity for the growth and the healing and the magic to start to happen coming out of that type of trauma and breakdown. And so that gives me a lot of hope because I've seen evidence in it in myself in the journey, and evidence in that from so many other people that I've been around in my life that are also on this healing journey with me.

And so I know because I've experienced it that that's the same kind of change that's gonna happen in the world around us. And it might not happen overnight and it's a process, but um there is there is so much to look forward to. And I've already seen changes occur with the way that um people are bringing awareness in the workplace and not accepting harassment to happen. I've seen changes in laws that have made differences in so many women's lives, women's voices are being heard, they're not as afraid to speak up and speak out when it comes to rape. And you know, I am sad that during the pandemic, um, there hasn't been as many places where people have been able to go in person and there's had to be more teletherapy.

But then that also is bringing a lot of hope to people too, because um, even if they're a little isolated and they're alone, there's also a place to get help that that that we didn't have, I didn't have when I was younger. So I'm seeing it happen in front of me. So there's a lot of hope, and and I know things are gonna continue to get better.

[44:12] Laura Bell Bundy: I have that too, hope too. And I definitely can relate to the the beauty and the breakdown and the pandemic putting emotions in a centrifuge to get me get to to let me get there a little bit quicker than I might have. Um but thank you so much for your time and your trust and your honesty and your vulnerability and your inspiration.

[44:42] Laura Bell Bundy: This has been such a special conversation, and I can't can only begin to imagine the number of survivors listening to this who have been given the gift of hope today.

[44:51] Laura Bell Bundy: I'm excited to be able to honor the foundation and also honor women for sexual assault awareness month. It's, you know, it's I can say it's definitely been a pleasure to talk to you because it always is, but um, you know, especially with something so important and near and dear to my heart. Thank you, Paige, so much for this.

[45:11] Laura Bell Bundy: And um I just adore you and appreciate you so much. We would like to thank Paige for donating 20% of her online profits to the Women of Tomorrow Foundation in honor of the work we are doing for Sexual Assault Awareness Month.

[45:24] Laura Bell Bundy: And be sure to shop it, Paige on Denim Day, which is April 27th, where 20% of her profits will be going to the Rain Foundation. If you're wondering what denim day is, denim Day grew out of a 1998 Italian Supreme Court decision that overturned a rape conviction because the victim wore tight jeans.

[45:47] Laura Bell Bundy: The Women of Tomorrow Foundation's board president is Dr. Emily Bonistal Postal. She is an educator and an activist who has demonstrated a deep commitment to crime victims over the course of her career. She brings nearly two decades of experience teaching, researching, and advocating on behalf of crime victims.

[46:05] Laura Bell Bundy: She also led the 2020 effort to secure constitutionally protected rights for crime victims in the state of Kentucky. Dr. Bonistal Postal is a subject matter expert. She presents workshops and trainings across the country and works with organizations to develop and implement victim-centered and trauma-informed approaches.

[46:23] Laura Bell Bundy: She has been honored for her scholarship and her leadership, being named an advocate for change, a teacher who made a difference, and was honored by our alma mater as a trailblazing woman for their inaugural Women's History Month celebration. Thank you to Paige for sharing.

[46:37] Laura Bell Bundy: And thank you also to Lara for owning your vulnerability and creating a safe space that is built on understanding and listening and seeing and learning. These are really difficult conversations for everyone, but we must have them.

[46:52] Laura Bell Bundy: In fact, many conversations are going to happen in the month of April, and that can actually be really difficult for survivors who open Instagram and see content about sexual assault. So if you are a survivor, please know that if you need to unplug a bit this month for your own mental health, I hope that you feel empowered to do so.

[47:08] Laura Bell Bundy: We need the world to be having these conversations, but that doesn't mean that you have to be part of them right now, if that's not what is best for you in this moment. I want to start by revisiting the question that we asked Paige about the pandemic. Trauma can affect how victims see themselves.

[47:23] Laura Bell Bundy: I am helpless, I am worthless. It can affect how they see the world. Right, right? The world is dangerous, no one can protect me, and it can affect their relationships. I can't trust anyone. For people who haven't had to endure this firsthand, it can be really difficult for us to understand the realities and implications of victimization, the long-term impact that it can have, and the way that it can affect every aspect of your life.

[47:45] Laura Bell Bundy: So I want to draw a parallel with our collective pandemic experience to provide a glimpse of what it can feel like to be a crime victim, what it means to have your whole world changed in an instant, and what it means to have to learn to live again. When the COVID-19 pandemic brought everything to a screeching halt in March of 2020, it brought with it a sudden loss of stability and control, isolation and helplessness.

[48:08] Laura Bell Bundy: The world as we knew it was no longer the one that we were living in. And we suddenly found that our daily routines had changed and our usual coping mechanisms were no longer options. Suddenly, we didn't feel safe around other people or in public spaces. People began talking about our new normal instead of getting back to normal.

[48:26] Laura Bell Bundy: And over the past two years, we've had to figure out what it means to live our lives now, which is an all-too familiar refrain for victims of crime. We didn't ask for our world to be changed, yet still we've had to learn to live again. So to better understand the concept of being victim-centered, I want you to consider the important parallel that although the pandemic has been a collective experience that we've all gone through, it's not a universal experience.

[48:51] Laura Bell Bundy: Trauma is a fundamentally subjective event where what's traumatic for one person may not be traumatic for another, because what's fearful or terrifying to me may not be for you. What I experience as a lack of control, you may not. And each of us experience the pandemic differently, and so one size fits all solutions don't take into account the individual needs or put us at the center of decisions regarding the support that we need.

[49:14] Laura Bell Bundy: So similarly, there are, even though there are common reactions and feelings that crime victims experience in the aftermath of their victimization, there's no one universal or true reaction to crime. So while one victim may seem withdrawn and stoic, another may be uncontrollably emotional. One person may reject their faith because of the experience, and another may have their faith strengthened.

[49:35] Laura Bell Bundy: Ultimately, I'm really hopeful that the pandemic experience will help all of us to be more understanding, more patient, more kind, and more victim-centered. I want to take a quick moment to talk about consent, because it's absolutely critical to any conversation about sexual assault. So often, victims of sexual assault are blamed by other people, and they often blame themselves for what they did to make this happen.

[50:00] Laura Bell Bundy: Maybe I shouldn't have danced with him or gone back to his room or agreed to go on a date. There's a really terrific little video that describes consent with a cup of tea. And if you haven't seen it yet, I really encourage you to watch it. But here's kind of the general gist.

[50:13] Laura Bell Bundy: So let's imagine instead of initiating sex, you're making someone a cup of tea, and you say, Hey, would you like a cup of tea? And they go, Oh my god, yes, I would love a cup of tea, you know that they want a cup of tea. If they say, um, I'm not really sure, then you can make them a cup of tea or not, but you have to be aware that they might not drink it.

[50:30] Laura Bell Bundy: And if they don't drink it, don't make them drink it. If they say no thank you, then don't make them tea. Don't make them drink tea, and don't be annoyed that they don't want tea. They might say, yes, please, and then in the time that it takes you to make the tea, they might change their mind and say, no thanks, I don't want tea anymore.

[50:47] Laura Bell Bundy: And so just because they said earlier that they want a tea, does not mean that they're obligated to drink it. If someone is unconscious, do not make them a cup of tea. They can't even answer the question of whether they want one. And even if they said yes they wanted a cup of tea before they were unconscious. If they are unconscious now, then don't make them drink the tea.

[51:08] Laura Bell Bundy: If someone said yes to tea before, that doesn't mean that today they want tea. If today they don't want tea, don't make them drink the tea. You heard Paige say earlier that she agreed to go on a date with her perpetrator. And I want to just remind you that you can consent to go on a date with someone and not consent to sexual activity.

[51:27] Laura Bell Bundy: You can have consensual sex with someone one night and not consent to it another night. You can consent to engaging in some type of sexual activity but not consent to other types of activity. Consent is ongoing. It is affirmative, it has to be unambiguous, so the absence of no is not a yes. It must be an affirmative and voluntary yes each and every time.

[51:49] Laura Bell Bundy: So to Paige and any other survivor who has blamed themselves at some point, no matter what happened leading up to that moment, no one should ever force you to drink the tea. That was the decision and action they made, and it was not your fault. You heard Paige talk about how she keeps her phone on silent.

[52:04] Laura Bell Bundy: You've likely heard the term trigger warning before. These can be really important to trauma survivors because it gives that person time to engage in grounding techniques that will help them to remember that they're safe in that moment. So triggers can be a smell, a sound, a sensation, a song, anything. For Paige, it's the ringing of her phone.

[52:22] Laura Bell Bundy: Here's how it works the body has a biological response to trauma that impacts how that person processes memory. And by binding to the nervous system, trauma can actually change someone's physiology. Leading trauma experts explain that trauma has a distinct physiological effect on the brain, where the primitive survival parts of the brain override the conscious part.

[52:42] Laura Bell Bundy: The memory of a traumatic event causes the individual to experience the present moment as if it were the past. These are not conscious choices, but instinctive brain processes that occur during traumatic situations. In traumatic memory, the past is not recalled consciously. It is instead relived in the sense that the memory carries the past with it and alters the experience of the present moment.

[53:04] Laura Bell Bundy: So this can show up in flashbacks, anxiety attacks, depression, or PTSD. So by providing a trigger warning or a content warning, you're providing a heads up as to what will be brought up, which can help the survivor to either prepare themselves in some way to engage in the topic or it gives them the time to disengage if that's what's best for them.

[53:23] Laura Bell Bundy: So, for example, all of you listening to this right now, you clicked on the podcast episode that had the topic of sexual assault in the title. So you likely knew that that would be the content discussed. But take for example the audience who came to the Woman of Tomorrow album launch concert that we just had, who might have just rolled up with their friends without knowing anything about the album or about the song Red Rover.

[53:45] Laura Bell Bundy: It was really important that we gave a trigger warning at the beginning of the concert so that survivors weren't shocked or taken off guard by the information. Ultimately, what I want you to take away from this is that if someone asks you not to do something or play something or wear a certain cologne, or if they keep their phone on silent, even though you've asked them not to, because you don't want them to miss your call, don't be a jerk.

[54:04] Laura Bell Bundy: You don't have to understand where a request like that might be coming from in order to take a victim-centered and trauma-informed approach. Just honor the request and always, always be kind. Speaking of being kind, Mr. Rogers always told us to look for the helpers. You heard from Paige about some of her helpers.

[54:20] Laura Bell Bundy: Her husband, the rape trauma center, the 30-day treatment facility, and you've heard her talk about all of the ways now that she's a helper to other sexual assault victims. So even though it can feel like you're completely alone, please know that there are so many resources available to support sexual assault survivors.

[54:35] Laura Bell Bundy: There's national organizations, state and local organizations, there are trauma-informed specialists, survivor-led groups, 24-7 hotlines. And you can, you know, you can find a list of just some of these resources on our website and in the notes of on this podcast episode. But please know that there are so many amazing resources out there.

[54:52] Laura Bell Bundy: Chanel Miller shared that she sleeps with two bicycles that she drew taped above her bed to remind her that there are heroes in the story. The two men who were riding their bikes saw what was happening, and instead of saying, it's not my problem or assuming that someone else will help, they stopped. This is called bystander intervention.

[55:11] Laura Bell Bundy: And if that's a new term for you and you're interested in learning more, there are some really awesome educational programs that can help you feel empowered to make choices, either through your words or your actions that promote safety and communicate utter intolerance for rape, partner violence, and stalking. If this is something that you'd like to learn more about, I really encourage you to look up the Green Dot program.

[55:31] Laura Bell Bundy: I so often hear I want to help, I just don't know what I can do. And so I want to share something else that Chanel Miller wrote in her victim impact statement. In addition to the two men on the bicycles, she also thanked, quote, the intern who made me oatmeal when I woke up at the hospital that morning, to the deputy who waited beside me, to the nurses who calmed me, to the detective who listened to me and never judged me, to my advocates who stood unwaveringly beside me, and to my therapist who taught me to find courage and vulnerability. End quote.

[56:00] Laura Bell Bundy: There are so many ways and so many opportunities that you can show up for survivors. You can listen instead of asking questions. Even if you're just trying to understand, it can really feel like you're victim blaming. And if you're not the detective in the case, then whatever details you're asking about or you're curious about, they really aren't relevant to you being a supportive friend.

[56:20] Laura Bell Bundy: So talk less and listen more. You can offer choices. This can be as simple as where you're gonna go to eat. Remember that their control was taken from them and their life feels completely out of control. So when you can, provide opportunities where they get to make the choice to help them regain some semblance of control.

[56:38] Laura Bell Bundy: This seems so obvious, but I'll say it anyway. Don't victim blame. Don't let those around you promote rape culture. Speak up. Share information on your social media pages, talk about it with your friends and family. Learn more about it, educate yourself. Chanel wrote a book called uh titled Know My Name. Read it, buy it, listen to the words of survivors.

[56:59] Laura Bell Bundy: Find organizations who are doing this important work and help them however you can, maybe by donating money or in kind items, or donate your time as a volunteer. And be kind. The easiest way to be trauma-informed and victim-centered is to just be kind. You truly never know what's happening in someone's life and the weight that they might be carrying to their interaction with you.

[57:20] Laura Bell Bundy: Finally, I want to leave you today with what every survivor deserves to hear. If you're not a survivor, I hope that these words can be an example of the kinds of things that you can say to someone who discloses to you that they've been victimized. If you are a survivor and you have never told anyone, let me be the first person to tell you these things.

[57:31] Laura Bell Bundy: If you are a survivor who has disclosed to someone, I hope that the person you told was able to make you feel supported. If the person or people you told made you feel blamed and ashamed for what was done to you, I'm so sorry that you were failed in that way. Here is what you deserve to hear.

[57:50] Laura Bell Bundy: I am so sorry that happened to you, and that it's something that you carried alone for so long. This was not your fault. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. You might feel broken, but there are people who will help you pick up the pieces and put yourself together again. It's okay to not be okay.

[58:08] Laura Bell Bundy: It doesn't matter what you were wearing or how much you drank or if you willingly went with someone, this was not your fault. I believe you. I hear you. I see you. You don't have to carry this weight on your own. There are people to help and to listen. And when you let someone else help you hold the weight, it begins to feel lighter.

[58:27] Laura Bell Bundy: You are worthy of love exactly as you are. Even if you don't feel it, I hope you know how brave you are. And I hope that one day you can see how strong you are. Your voice matters, and so do you. You matter. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you again to Paige Adams-Geller for your bravery.

[58:49] Laura Bell Bundy: Thank you, Dr. Emily Bonistal Postal, for your expertise. And as always, thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for advocating for women. Please like, share, and subscribe to this podcast. And if you are interested in being a part of the change, please go to Women of Tomorrow Foundation.org and sign up to become a member.