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[0:06] Laura Bell Bundy: Welcome to Women of Tomorrow.

[0:08] Shea Carter's's: I'm Laura Bell Bundy, and I'm Shea Carter's, and we are partners in feminist crime.

[0:13] Laura Bell Bundy: If we didn't recognize the fragile nature of our freedoms before the overturning of Roe v. Wade, we certainly recognize them now. Since Dobbs, as many call it, reproductive freedoms are being swiftly taken away in the U.S. As of today, 14 states have enacted an abortion ban, making most abortions illegal in those states. In some states, this is regardless of rape or incest. In many other states, the fight over reproductive access is taking place now in courtrooms with advocates suing to block the enforcement of restrictive laws. Abortion is healthcare. Politicians are not doctors. Most of the politicians enacting these laws don't have a uterus. The complexities of pregnancy and reproductive health are grossly misunderstood, and the lack of abortion access can lead to life-threatening conditions for patients and horrendous legal repercussions for the doctors trying to save them.

The organization A Is For is proud to lead the charge in the Broadway arts community of advancing reproductive rights and amplifying art and artists that work to end the stigma against abortion. They believe in a world in which every person has access to the full spectrum of reproductive health care, free from judgment, scrutiny, and obstruction. You may know multiple Tony nominee and Emmy Award winner, Martha Plimpton for her countless and always riveting film, television, and theatrical performances. My favorite being Goonies. But like we at Women of Tomorrow, she has channeled her artistry into activism on behalf of women's reproductive freedom. And we are so honored to have Martha join us on our podcast today to talk about her work as the board president and co-founder of A Is For.

[1:59] Martha Plimpton: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really delighted to be here.

[2:01] Laura Bell Bundy: Thank you.

[2:03] Martha Plimpton: And I just want to say, this is the first year I'm actually not board president. I'm still a co-founder. I'm still on the board, but we have a fabulous new board president. It was time, and she's brilliant. Her name is Karen Shaw, and I love her, and she's awesome.

[2:20] Laura Bell Bundy: Well, it's amazing the work that you're doing. And um, and we're just gonna jump right in and start asking you how you became passionate about this. You are our dream woman. We are all about art as activism. And so I know you've been actively fighting for reproductive freedom since you were a teenager. And as a teenager, you lobbied Congress on behalf of Planned Parenthood, which blows my mind. And I want to know what was it, what was it at that young age that made you want to speak out?

[2:52] Martha Plimpton: Well, um, I had had my first abortion at the age of 19. I was uh in Seattle, I was doing a play, and uh I just knew right away what I needed to do for myself, and that I was in no position to um carry a pregnancy uh to term, and uh I was in my first trimester and I went to a Planned Parenthood. And the process was very uh straightforward. The nurses were incredibly caring and respectful, and uh I was able to um access the care that I needed and that I wanted, and that made it possible for me to pursue the rest of my life the way I wanted to pursue it. And it just so happened that that was in 1989, and in the early 90s, we saw a real uptick in violence against uh clinic providers and against doctors.

We saw clinic bombings. We saw a real increase in the number of protesters, um, anti-abortion protesters, uh an increase in harassment of patients outside of clinics. And we saw uh sort of a, you know, um an uptick in the political rhetoric. Uh we began to see um at that point a real uh increase in the focus on reproductive health care as a target, a political target, um, and a way for uh conservatives to throw red meat at their base. And so I felt that uh everyone deserved to have the same access and the same uh opportunity that I did to access this care. And I just became involved with Planned Parenthood as a, you know, on their board of advocates and uh, you know, speaking at rallies and as you mentioned, lobbying Congress, and and ever since then it's just been a really important aspect of my my what I see as my job as a citizen. Um and it's just the area in which I chose to um do what I could and be an advocate in in something that I truly believe in.

[5:10] Laura Bell Bundy: Oh, that's so beautiful and so brave, especially in a time where there was so much controversy and being afraid of the public scrutiny because you are in the public eye to come out with such personal information. Did you have community around you? Did you have friends that supported you and were like a safe space for you, or did you feel isolated in that early decision?

[5:30] Martha Plimpton: No, I didn't feel isolated in any way. I mean, I didn't really talk about it until much later when I felt um that it was I felt it was necessary for me to talk about it. But I don't necessarily believe that that was an obligation that I had. I certainly uh and I certainly never felt uh isolated at all. Um, but I just think I felt like it was nobody's business. But I think that as an advocate, um, it it's it it I felt for me personally that um that uh I felt it was important if we're gonna get rid of stigma and we're going to remove the shame that has been imposed upon this very common and very safe medical procedure that I should be able to talk about my experience openly and share it with people and share with people my lack of shame.

Um, and uh and that that was a way I felt that um I could help maybe others to feel the same way. I don't know, you know, um, but it it it seemed like it was necessary for me personally to be open about my experience. I mean, I've subsequently I've had other abortions, um and I've miscarried and I've it required medication abortion to vacate my uterus. Um I've been through IUI and IVF procedures that were unsuccessful in which I needed to take Mifepristone and Misoprostol. Um, and uh, you know, because these are uh what we're talking about are are normal aspects of human health care and women's health care. And we got to take the good with the bad, do you know? Um we can't just you know excise one bit of it because we don't like it or because it's you know, we think it's somehow shameful or wrong, or we place some sort of character judgment.

[7:27] Martha Plimpton: Um, you know, uh childbirth and and and pregnancy are extremely taxing on the human body. Um and there are going to be outcomes that we either don't foresee or don't want. Um we may become ill, our fetus may become ill. Um they're all sort it's a very complicated thing being pregnant, and it changes the human body forever, inexorably. And so we we can't just pretend that it's this like magical gift somehow that women are that women or other pregnant people are somehow then obligated to go through regardless of their own lives. The fact is that women are people too. People with uteruses are people too. And so uh, you know, if we truly respect life, then we have to respect all aspects of life and what it means. And sometimes it means abortion.

[8:29] Laura Bell Bundy: Exactly. And and I think what people don't realize is when we're talking about abortion being health care, uh it not only is it for what you're talking about, it you know, pregnancy is a very taxing experience. I had a child and I can tell you that there are things that will never be recovered. Um and uh and and I think there were some feelings that I had too in my pregnancy where I was like, everybody talks about this being just so this beautiful experience I should be so excited about. And I I've been feeling like I was hungover for nine and a half months. Like this is and uh my xiphoid process is out of whack. I got all these other things. I think I got a hernia from pushing, I mean, the whole thing.

And yeah, and then as a singer, I had to work forever to get my pelvic floor back, my diaphragm. You know, these are all of the things that happen. Now, this is from someone who had a healthy pregnancy for the most part. Um, but then you have on the other side of it what you're saying, which is the complication of uh these unforeseeable things that can happen in pregnancy, no matter what week you are.

[9:39] Martha Plimpton: And yeah, and these should be decisions that are made by the person who owns the body with their health practitioner and and doctors because they're so you know, so to to put these doctors in a position where at three o'clock in the morning they're having to to call politicians and and judges to say, hey, I have this situation with a woman who, while the heart is beating, the brain is dead, she's gonna go septic. I'd like to save this woman's life, but I don't want to go to jail for 30 years.

[10:17] Laura Bell Bundy: Right. It's really crazy, and I think that's the point. I think the point of these restrictions and these laws, as well as the arbitrariness of numbers like six weeks, eight weeks, 15 weeks, whatever it is today. Um, I think the point of it is to keep people off balance and feeling out of control and afraid. Um, the point is definitely not to protect women's health or protect life or protect anyone. I mean, we're talking about individuals who don't even want living infants to get clean formula. So, you know, so it's not really about any of that. It's about control and part of uh maintaining control is keeping people off balance, unsure about what they're allowed to do or not allowed to do, confused about their options, ignorant of the uh medical realities.

[11:14] Martha Plimpton: You know, the the good thing is is that we now live in an age where it's not 1973. You know, we now have access to medication abortion, which is very important to talk about. And this is something that you know we focus on that people like uh Amelia Bono at Shout Your Abortion focuses on. We feel like regardless of what laws are passed and you know, all that abortion is a community responsibility because it's healthcare and because the lives of so many women and other people with uteruses uh are affected by that it's our job to make sure that people understand that, particularly in the first trimester, self-managed abortion is totally possible and it's totally safe.

[12:00] Martha Plimpton: And it's accessible. You can find information about it from share safe abortion info.com, from aidaccess.org, from plan C. You can Google these uh places to get resources, not only to obtain the medication uh at little to no cost if necessary, but you can also get counseling, you can get legal advice about how to mitigate certain legal consequences that might exist in your state. You can get uh directives on how to take the medication so that you're not flying blind. Um, but you can rest assured that if taken correctly, this medication is extraordinarily safe. It is safer, certainly, than pregnancy and childbirth are, and certainly much safer than you know, uh than pregnancy and childbirth are for women of color in this country.

So, you know, so so medication abortion we're not living in the age of the bloody coat hanger. We do have options now, and and what's so great about it is that these options put the power into individual people's hands. It it takes away the wall between patient and doctor and that intimidating clinic appointment and whether you can get an appointment.

[13:20] Martha Plimpton: You know, we don't necessarily in the first trimesters, in the early trimester, we don't need all of this rigor. You don't need to make an appointment. You don't need to, you don't need to be harassed by, you know, and you know, look, if they the pills come in the mail, what are they gonna do? Check everybody's mailbox? There are there are certain legal realities that people in certain states that are hostile, particularly hostile to abortion, need to know about. And those that information is there for them, but it is possible to obtain this medication, and it's everyone's responsibility to make sure that people know about it.

[13:57] Laura Bell Bundy: And that is what we're seeing is like do people know about it? I know that as an organization, we have been contacted by one woman who was living in Texas, and she was too afraid to even do the research on her computer for fear that that search history could be used against her later.

[14:11] Martha Plimpton: Um, one thing when I was looking at your platform and your site, it's so easy to navigate, and you can find clinics that are near you and multiple ones and not just Planned Parenthood. And I just so appreciated that because when you're in a state of chaos and fear, you need things to be simplified for you, and you need that information to be available.

[14:31] Laura Bell Bundy: And we live in an age where there's too much conflicting information and it's very confusing.

[14:37] Martha Plimpton: And it's one of the reasons I think we're having such a problem and such a divide amongst women on things that we agree on. We can argue till we're blue in the face. I think it's a clump of cells, you think it's a baby, and we can never with this conversation can be unending. But the things that we do agree on is that there is that most logical people agree on is right to life should not violate the right to a life of a pregnant woman or girl, and that women are human beings, and that none of us want women to have an unsafe abortion.

[15:06] Martha Plimpton: Whether you're pro-life or pro-choice, we both agree on that. And we can all agree that incest shouldn't be legal or commonplace. You know, it's like there's certain things we can all band together on. And I think also what's really important to talk about and to think about and remember as we have these conversations is that the reality is that it's not just women who need abortions. Many, many trans people have uteruses and require abortion care at some point in their lives, and so it's very important for us, especially when you consider the horrific anti-trans legislation and harassment of families of trans children, the punishment of trans children. It's extremely important that we recognize the intersection between these two things and the relationship between these two things, and that, you know, by talking about that and being inclusive and recognizing that we're not taking anything away from ourselves.

We are, I think, really doing the truly feminist thing, which is we're looking out for the underdog and for the underrepresented. And we're making sure that there is this big tent where, frankly, you know, I think all of humanity is under. But, you know, especially in feminism, it's necessary for us to have that inclusion be part of our conversations because they are related, they are connected. Oh, it is all the same thing. And the need is really, really there. It's really there. Absolutely. And I'll like rephrase my right to life to not violate the life of any pregnant person. And we use women with an X all the time for inclusivity. And thank you for stopping me on that because you get habits of mind in like when you're talking, but that is absolutely something that I think, again, is a common place that we all agree on.

[16:56] Martha Plimpton: So I want to talk about your gala. So AS4 is having your annual gala for Broadway Acts for Abortion at 54 Below on October 2nd at 6:30 p.m. Um you are you your hosting, correct?

[17:16] Martha Plimpton: Yes, I am hosting, and this year, for the first time ever, I have a co-host. Oh I have one of our board members and a phenomenal actress and hilarious and brilliant woman, Jen Lyon, who you may know from TNT's Claws. She and I are co-hosting, and the night is gonna be, I think it's gonna be quite possibly our best Broadway Acts for Abortion ever. I mean, related to what we were just talking about. We used to call it Broadway Acts for Women. And this year we realized it just it just doesn't work anymore. And also we were tired of the euphemisms. Say the flipping word. Abortion. Um, and the great thing about this event is that it gives the Broadway community, it's the only event of its kind, the only Broadway community event dedicated specifically to abortion, and that without euphemism, without apology, without shame, and it gives the opportunity to performers to come out and do something that they rarely do, which is either talk about abortion or their own abortion, um, and to perform a song that they have not rehearsed.

We have this is the it's very, very cool. We have a live band led by Dan Lipton, who's our incredible music director. We have two phenomenal backup singers, Mursa Rosen and Rashidra Malanga, and they are there to support the performers in any way they can. And each performer is paired with a prize. So they get up there and they're paired with like a tequila tasting for six at La Palapa, or something equally fabulous. Tickets to New York Food and Wine Festival or opening night tickets to a show, and or a you know, Patton Oswalt live show tickets, you know, blue black live show tickets. And then whoever wins gets to pick the song the performer sings.

[19:20] Martha Plimpton: I love this. This is so good. I'll be there.

[19:24] Laura Bell Bundy: It's incredible! You should come. You should absolutely come. Because everyone who's done it, whether it's Patti Lupone or Betty Buckley or Titus Burgess or Sara Bareilles, or I mean, the list goes up. Montique Glover, the list goes up, they all say it is the most fun that they have had working a benefit ever. Uh it is so breakneck. It's fast-paced, it's fly by the seat of your pants. And if you're not there in the room, it's not recorded, it's not live-streamed, because you know, we want people to feel protected. We don't want Patti Lupone going out there feeling like you know, her ass is hanging out. Although she would do that. She would be willing to do that. Um, but it's great because these performers basically do what providers do every day.

They're going out there, they're putting themselves at risk, they're taking a chance, and in their own silly simple, fun way, these artists are being brave and doing the same thing. And it's really, really, really wonderful.

[20:28] Martha Plimpton: Oh, I love it. It's so vulnerable. And when you're seeing something on the fly, the energy of the artist and the energy of the audience, it's something that you can't have in when you've rehearsed something. It's a moment you can live in. Oh, I love it. And that also means you can just also make up words if you don't know them. A lot of like a bad June is a good thing. What you think they were the words are? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, you know, pull a Leslie Adams.

[21:00] Martha Plimpton: Oh, oh my gosh. So the all-time pro of making up the bejesus and the buzzes and the banner and the pillars on the bill. Um, no, it's really well. I mean, to be fair, we do we make a list of 20 songs. Like the band can't be expected to know like 4,000 karaoke songs. So we do make a list of 20 songs that the audience can pick from. We do give it to the artists ahead of time, but who has time to rehearse 20 songs, right? And believe it or not, every year someone messes up, inevitably, and it's a riot, and everyone's supportive and everyone applauds. And I always open the show with a you know, a pop song. Usually it's Katy Perry. This year, Jen and I are doing a duet, but we want to make sure that the audience's expectations are quite low.

So I we're we open the show with a number that you know I'm sure we'll mess up. And everyone just it's a very fun and brilliant time. And the main point is is that we get to celebrate providers and the various funds and advocacy groups that work to support them and independent clinics, which are really, really in need. Um, but we also, you know, we got to celebrate them, but we also get to raise money for them.

[22:24] Martha Plimpton: Yeah. And now more than ever, I know that these clinics are much more overwhelmed than they've ever been before. They're taking on all of these women from all of all of these people from all of these different states that now can't receive care in their states. So more than that. Exactly. And they're really stretched thin, and their waiting times are incredibly long and sometimes so long that it's prohibitive. Um, so long that it it becomes too late. Um, you know, yeah. So yeah, the they really need our help, those independent clinics across the country that are still open, that are still functioning. Yeah, for sure. And so do the abortion funds that work with them, like the Bridget Alliance, which works specifically with third trimester or late-term pregnancies that have obviously gone deeply, deeply wrong.

And these are people who very desperately need to either save their own lives or mitigate the suffering of their fetus. And, you know, there are the fact that any state, that any government or state legislature would deem it um, you know, responsible or right to have someone walking around with a deceased fetus inside them because they can't access a DNC. That's just sadism. That's cruelty. It's vicious, and it has nothing to do with respect for life. It has nothing to do with respect for babies or mothers or families. Uh it's just cruelty. So that's what the Bridget Alliance is there for, the Lilith Fund as well. There are many organizations that we've supported in the past and that will continue support through our beneficiaries program, where every month we give $1,500 to a different independent clinic or abortion fund.

Sometimes we give them to legal aid groups like the Danes Due Process in Texas, which helps teens uh who are either trying to access abortion or who have uh given birth and want to go to school and are discriminated against. So these they represent both sides of the coin, you know. Um so yeah, that's the kind of work that we do. And because we recognize, look, the need for abortion, it runs the spectrum. It runs the gamut of human experience um you know what I mean and and to suggest somehow that it's this cut and dried thing for everybody that it's the same for everybody and that the outcomes can be the same for everybody is just it's just wrong it's just not right it's not real.

[24:44] Laura Bell Bundy: Well, it's amazing that you're able to support all of these providers through this event and through your organization and and also this information you know this information to the folks that are coming to the show to our listeners today it's uh I think you know these providers are certainly overloaded right now um everybody is you know their services are put into a pressure cooker of course and the legalities and all the question marks of where everything is in the court process to protect these organizations is so important and to fund them it is so important so thank you so much for doing this work and thank you and using your artistry for activism is that is thank you and if anyone wants to buy a ticket yes there are still there are very few left but there are some really good seats left and they can go to aisfor.org and they can click on that Broadway Acts for Abortion link and they can they'll be sent to uh the website to buy tickets.

[26:16] Martha Plimpton: There's gonna be amazing prizes, amazing swag in the bag. So you know everybody gets a bag of free stuff. You know, we have a raffles. It's the everybody, everybody, everybody gets a little something out of this. So you can come if you go to our website and check it out. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the most happening event on Sunday night, October 2nd in New York City. Um, or in the country, really, because I be the I would love to see Patti Lupone singing some karaoke. And also Ann Harada, Lea Delaria, Bonnie Milligan, Javier Muniz. Wow, you have a great group of the city. It's a stacked night. And we also, I we also I can't announce who it is yet, but I think we have one more person that's uh there are probably two or three more people, but um I just got news today that someone's super exciting um might be on the roster.

So you just you never know what's gonna happen at this thing. And I, you know, I'm really proud of our staff and our uh, you know, our whole board and everything. Um it's and Patti was at our very first show. So the fact that she's coming back for our 10-year anniversary means the world to me.

[27:48] Laura Bell Bundy: Thank you so much, Martha. Really, truly you thank you for the work that you do. Being so thoughtful about this topic and knowledgeable and sharing that with us. And everybody go.

[28:02] Martha Plimpton: Yeah. Everybody go to AS4.

[28:04] Laura Bell Bundy: I know. You should come. I know. Get your tickets. Get there.

[28:08] Martha Plimpton: I know thank you so much, you guys. I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate it.

[28:13] Laura Bell Bundy: Our pleasure guys. Go check out AS4 and hurry up and get your tickets. Hurry up and get your tickets.

[28:23] Laura Bell Bundy: Thank you so much to Martha Plimpton for taking the time to talk to us today and for all the work she has put into the fight for abortion care. AS4 is an incredible nonprofit organization that is reclaiming the Scarlet A that was intended to shame and using that A to identify with words like access, advocacy, autonomy, action, and abortion. If you or someone you know is in need of an abortion, AS4 is an incredible resource from locating clinics to the latest news on the subject. There's a benefit concert in conjunction with Broadway Acts for Abortion this Sunday, October 2nd at 6:30 at 54 Below. The goal of a benefit concert is to remind people that their stories are important, that they matter, and that they have power. In the words of Malala, I raise up my voice not so that I can shout, but so that those without a voice can be heard. We cannot all succeed when half of us are held back. We are women of tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us.