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[0:07] Laura Bell Bundy: Welcome to the Women of Tomorrow Podcast. I'm Laura Bell Bundy. This is our special episode at BroadwayCon live. And for those of you who don't know much about Women of Tomorrow, we are a foundation that works to change the social consciousness around women's value through art, education, and community. The art part is concerts and our album, Women of Tomorrow. The education part is this podcast, as well as our app and community, where we have 20 classes or more a month for women in various areas of personal growth, business, parenthood, fitness, you name it, areas for women to strengthen weak areas in their life, because we believe that when a woman feels good, mind, body, and spirit, that is the greatest form of resistance.

So, my personal belief is that we have a great opportunity as artists to make change and impact in the world through entertainment. It is much easier to hear a hard truth when it is entertaining, it is funny, it sounds good, you can dance to it than it is when someone is yelling at you. So that's what we work on doing here at the Women of Tomorrow Podcast. And today I'm so thrilled and honored that my co-star in The Cottage, Lilli Cooper, has agreed to be my guest today. And you may know Lilli from the original cast of Spring Awakening, her Tony-nominated performance in Tootsie, SpongeBob SquarePants, her riveting and hilarious performance in POTUS, and The Cottage where we are opening tomorrow night.

[2:21] Lilli Cooper: Hi, thanks for having me.

[2:24] Laura Bell Bundy: Thanks for being here.

[2:25] Lilli Cooper: Of course.

[2:25] Laura Bell Bundy: Especially on a Sunday when you really didn't have to be at the theater till 2:30.

[2:29] Lilli Cooper: That's totally fine.

[2:29] Laura Bell Bundy: And so you've played a diverse number of roles. And I'm curious how your belief system or the feminist inside you chooses those roles, and has that made an impact on which roles you take or don't take or yeah.

[2:54] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, I am really proud of the breadth of roles that I've played. I've played a squirrel, I've played a witch, I've played a pregnant woman, I've played a nursing woman. You know, it really does run the gamut. And you know, first and foremost, at this place in my career, a huge reason for the jobs that I take are the fact that I booked them. And, you know, I wish I had jobs flying at me left and right that I had to choose between. But the fact is we're all working our butts off and auditioning constantly and hoping that the next thing comes. And I feel so lucky that the array of roles that I've been able to play have all been really strong women. But I also think that I always bring Lilli to the roles that I play, no matter who they are.

And I think that also adds that element of strength because I consider myself to be a very strong woman. And so it's almost impossible for me to play anything else on stage because it is me. So that absolutely is something that's taken into account. I want to represent on stage. I want to represent for people of color, I want to represent for people who need and want to find their independence and strength in their life, and I feel like that is what theater is for, is so that people can see themselves on stage, and that is one of the driving forces that keeps me going and keeps me so passionate about this field.

[4:37] Laura Bell Bundy: Yeah. So since we are a podcast that goes into the issues that we're facing today, are there important issues for women that you care about the most?

[4:50] Lilli Cooper: I mean, a multitude of them. I think on the top of my list is women's autonomy and reproductive rights, of course. I mean, I am very lucky in that I planned a pregnancy, I had a healthy full-term pregnancy, and gave birth to a healthy child. And that is not a given. And I fully understand that that's not a given. And there are so many different ways that that process and experience can go, and every single way that that process and experience can go should be honored. And that is my wish for the human population to understand that our bodily autonomy is vital to the success of the human race.

[5:47] Laura Bell Bundy: Totally.

[5:48] Lilli Cooper: Yeah. I completely, yes, somebody started to clap. But yes, absolutely. And that, I mean, we know a lot of people look at reproductive rights as a spiritual issue, and that I do respect. But there are also major health concerns in the process of pregnancy and delivery. And we haven't figured that out as a country. We don't have insurance for everybody. Not everybody has health care, not everybody has the care that they need during pregnancy. We have to get those things right before we ever would even think to demand that someone carry out a pregnancy as well. And there's just so many complications. Like you said, we deserve to be in charge of our own health care as individuals. It's an interesting thing because I know that another issue that you care about is maternity leave, paid maternity leave and time off.

[6:44] Lilli Cooper: Yeah.

[6:45] Laura Bell Bundy: And we, while we are a thriving rich nation, we are the lowest on the totem pole for paid parental leave. It's really upsetting and honestly terrifying. My husband is from Ireland, and I visited there after I had my baby, and the amount of people that were like, oh, so how much time did you get off? How has your maternity leave been? And I'm like, um, non-existent? Like what? It's just a given in other countries. It's expected. It's a standard, and it should absolutely be that here. For both parents, for mothers and fathers, for both parenting or whoever is parenting the child. It should absolutely be a given. I mean, I can say firsthand, as you know, raising an infant is next to impossible, and it's shocking that people still exist.

[7:39] Lilli Cooper: I know.

[7:40] Laura Bell Bundy: Like it truly doesn't make sense. Like, wait, everybody was a baby? That's crazy. They are all on a death mission. Like, truly, I don't understand. Like toddlers are just constantly trying to kill themselves.

[7:51] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, it is.

[7:52] Laura Bell Bundy: How do we keep them alive? It's really crazy. And how do we not have heart attacks in the process? Like so, like doing that, not working, not getting a paycheck, it's practically impossible. No wonder we have anxiety as a society. Like, right?

[8:10] Lilli Cooper: Of course.

[8:11] Laura Bell Bundy: Our anxiety and stress is just multiplied by this little creature that we have to keep alive and, you know, overwhelmingly love and are truly obsessed with and sacrifice everything in order to help them thrive, including our own health and sanity. So not only maternal leave and maternal pay, but I also think like mental health is a really important thing. Postpartum depression is so prevalent, especially in this country. Maternal health is at risk. Women of color, parenting people of color are at way higher risk of death, of disease after birthing and during pregnancy. And that is not being tackled. It's not being talked about, it's not being, you know, addressed, and it's terrifying. I mean, I know that walking into a hospital, I, as a Black woman, I'm at higher risk of dying.

And just knowing that is a truly scary thing. And I'm truly utterly privileged. I have health insurance, I am a healthy, you know, birthing age person. And so I had confidence that I would walk out of that hospital, but not everybody does. And the fact that people have to experience that fear is truly unacceptable.

[9:41] Lilli Cooper: It's inhumane.

[9:42] Laura Bell Bundy: It is inhumane. Our bodies aren't the same.

[9:47] Lilli Cooper: No.

[9:48] Laura Bell Bundy: After you have a kid. I mean, they are not. So making someone go like, hey, you gotta do this, your body's never gonna be the same, you're gonna have a bunch of health issues, you might have depression too, you may not be able to avoid it, you're gonna go broke. Like, what? What I find is fascinating is you know, there's only eight states in the United States that have paid maternity leave. Some have paternity as well. And those eight states, none of those states are planning to ban abortion or abortion rights. The ones that are, none of those have any infrastructure for paid maternity or paternity leave, which I think is sort of ironic when we're talking about family values.

[10:42] Lilli Cooper: So you're talking about family values, but you actually don't believe in them because you don't have any infrastructure in your states to support the family.

[10:50] Laura Bell Bundy: To support the parents, to support the children.

[10:52] Lilli Cooper: To support the children. And here's the thing that is so interesting that I've done in some of the research, and you can hear on some of our other podcasts. 80% of single parents are women.

[11:10] Laura Bell Bundy: Wow.

[11:12] Lilli Cooper: And over 20% of those single parents are living below the poverty line. And the average single mother makes $58,000 a year but spends over $10,000 in childcare. And the majority of single fathers are living with their parents.

[11:33] Laura Bell Bundy: Wow.

[11:33] Lilli Cooper: And the majority of single mothers are not. So to me, I'm like, when we look at these statistics, so when you know, yes, a single mother is living below the poverty line. What does that mean for her children? Her children are...

[12:10] Laura Bell Bundy: And really, it is in the home unit.

[12:15] Lilli Cooper: The home unit, we have to support the home unit. We have to support the mother. The mother is raising the child that goes on to be a voting citizen. You know, these are the things that we have to focus on. But yeah, it might be a controversial belief, but it is my belief that if we force people to birth children, that we should support those people after those children are born.

[12:36] Laura Bell Bundy: I completely agree with that.

[12:38] Lilli Cooper: And we should not demand it if we are also not gonna take any responsibility for it. And, you know, put your money where your mouth is, you know, if you really believe these things, do what you need to do, set us up in society to make... I mean, I certainly don't want a Handmaid's Tale society.

[12:56] Laura Bell Bundy: No.

[12:56] Lilli Cooper: But so then what this turns into, what these regulations and these laws and these bans turn into is really regulation over birthing people's bodies. It's ownership, it's power over bodies, over these powerless bodies. And no thought, no forethought of what the future livelihood is of the children and the parents. And that's devastating. And another staggering and sort of depressing statistic is this one in five women in this country are sexually assaulted.

[13:34] Lilli Cooper: That is meaning multiple people in this room have been sexually assaulted.

[13:40] Lilli Cooper: And that is just the cases that are reported.

[13:47] Lilli Cooper: I don't really know a woman who hasn't come up against some sort of sexual assault or harassment.

[13:57] Lilli Cooper: I don't know a single one, including myself.

[14:01] Lilli Cooper: And uh, but when you think about that paired with not having bodily autonomy, you are essentially if a woman is raped, um, that rapist gets to pick the mom of their child in certain states.

[14:17] Lilli Cooper: I mean staging.

[14:19] Lilli Cooper: That's crazy.

[14:20] Lilli Cooper: So we need anyway.

[14:23] Lilli Cooper: Um now that I've depressed everyone, an upbeat chipper podcast where I'm gonna do it.

[14:28] Lilli Cooper: Um I'm gonna take a turn, but not a big turn.

[14:32] Lilli Cooper: Um, this is something that you know, I have I have watched Lily in this two-month process um not only nailing it in rehearsal and on stage, but also balancing being a mom in this process and doing it so gracefully and beautifully.

[14:54] Laura Bell Bundy: And and talking in we've had some talks about you know the continuation of family planning, and I'm so curious, especially because in this career, this Broadway career we have, um, I know for me, um, making the decision to have a child and when to have a child was a very, very deliberate one.

[15:16] Lilli Cooper: Yeah.

[15:17] Laura Bell Bundy: And um very tricky.

[15:21] Laura Bell Bundy: In fact, uh, I went through IVF last fall to have another child.

[15:26] Laura Bell Bundy: It didn't work out.

[15:28] Laura Bell Bundy: Um, but I was also already attached to the cottage, so I felt like I've gotta have this baby now before we get a theater.

[15:36] Laura Bell Bundy: And it uh it actually turned out uh the the week after I found out that the pregnancy didn't take, uh, they got a theater and uh earlier than expected earlier, way early, like four months earlier than expected, and I would have been six months pregnant.

[15:53] Lilli Cooper: Right.

[15:54] Laura Bell Bundy: Um, and so you know, that I kind of look at the universe and I go, Oh, well, there is a plan here, I guess.

[16:00] Laura Bell Bundy: Um, but it is so hard and tricky to figure out because there is so much of our like physical body required to be on stage.

[16:07] Laura Bell Bundy: They can't film around it.

[16:09] Laura Bell Bundy: And I'm so curious what the thought process was for you in terms of starting a family, when to start a family, if you believe you could, because I know this is for many young actors like a burning question.

[16:24] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[16:26] Lilli Cooper: Um taking my career into account and where I was in my career was was vital for me.

[16:31] Lilli Cooper: Um, you know, our instruments are our bodies, and our bodies take a huge toll when uh, you know, growing a human inside of them.

[16:42] Lilli Cooper: So uh I was looking at the silver lining of the pandemic, which was we were out of work.

[16:50] Lilli Cooper: And for me, that was a silver lining because it meant I could get pregnant, and I knew that I wasn't um I didn't have anything lined up that I would be worried about, not booking or not being able to do.

[17:04] Lilli Cooper: Uh so we planned it really around that, and and and in that way I was very lucky that I had this period of time that I knew I would be able to get pregnant and um, you know, look pregnant for the next nine months and not worry about not working.

[17:22] Lilli Cooper: And then that being said, of course, after I gave birth, I in my mind was like, okay, I'm gonna take time off.

[17:31] Lilli Cooper: It's gonna be great, I'm gonna be home with my baby.

[17:33] Lilli Cooper: And then, of course, a phone call comes, right?

[17:35] Lilli Cooper: It's like, would you like to sing at Carnegie Hall?

[17:37] Lilli Cooper: Would you like to do this off-Broadway show?

[17:39] Lilli Cooper: Would you like to do this out-of-town show?

[17:40] Lilli Cooper: Again, utterly privileged, you know, very, very honored and blessed and lucky to have these opportunities.

[17:47] Lilli Cooper: But I jumped at them because I wasn't working for the prior 10 months.

[17:52] Lilli Cooper: And I wanted to get back into the business because there's the fear of am I gonna be forgotten if I stay at home with my child?

[17:59] Lilli Cooper: Which is awful because you wanna do both.

[18:03] Lilli Cooper: I my dream in life has always been to be a mother and to have a career.

[18:10] Lilli Cooper: And I feel so lucky that I can say that I'm doing both of them and fairly successfully, yeah, with a few panic attacks and breakdowns in between.

[18:19] Lilli Cooper: But you know, I am doing both.

[18:22] Lilli Cooper: And a broken pelvic floor.

[18:24] Lilli Cooper: Exactly.

[18:25] Lilli Cooper: And no abs.

[18:28] Lilli Cooper: Um, and so I, you know, jumped right back into work and it was really, really challenging.

[18:34] Lilli Cooper: I was nursing, I was pumping, I was navigating a relationship with my husband post-child.

[18:41] Lilli Cooper: Uh, you know, I was 20 pounds heavier than I'd ever been.

[18:44] Lilli Cooper: I was constantly in pain, you know, these are things I was sick.

[18:50] Lilli Cooper: I, you know, I these are things that I had never navigated prior to having a child.

[18:54] Lilli Cooper: And so they added to those on top of working, which in itself is very challenging, was uh total just you know, terrifying, scary journey.

[19:08] Lilli Cooper: Um, I luckily had a huge support base, support system.

[19:12] Lilli Cooper: My mother isn't is lives in New York and watches my son all the time, and my husband is a huge supporter of me, and um, I feel that very lucky that I have that.

[19:23] Lilli Cooper: But you know, on top of that, it's just been it's a constant struggle.

[19:29] Lilli Cooper: Every day it is, but I think remembering gratitude is something that has kept me um alive, it's kept me joyous, um, being grateful for the fact that I was able to birth a healthy child and I'm still able to work, and I feel really lucky and grateful.

[19:48] Lilli Cooper: So I think that's what kind of gets me through.

[19:50] Lilli Cooper: And his cute little face, I gotta say, he's I made a good one.

[19:54] Laura Bell Bundy: He is adorable and quite the the personalities, too.

[20:01] Lilli Cooper: Oh he's apple.

[20:03] Lilli Cooper: His little spirit.

[20:04] Lilli Cooper: Oh my gosh.

[20:06] Lilli Cooper: So I just into the minutiae.

[20:11] Laura Bell Bundy: How does having how old is Bodie?

[20:15] Lilli Cooper: He is 22 months.

[20:18] Lilli Cooper: He's turning two in September.

[20:21] Laura Bell Bundy: That yes, woo, yes.

[20:23] Lilli Cooper: Also, this is this is they're on the death march everywhere they go, stays.

[20:27] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, climbing stairs, jumping off of things.

[20:30] Lilli Cooper: It's wild.

[20:31] Lilli Cooper: Yes, and then they like they're just starting to be able to communicate, but there's also a lot of screaming because they can't.

[20:36] Lilli Cooper: And there's a lot of like, no, by myself, by myself, you know, just wanting to do things alone.

[20:42] Laura Bell Bundy: Yes.

[20:43] Lilli Cooper: Yes, I think that they continue.

[20:45] Lilli Cooper: Yes, exactly.

[20:47] Lilli Cooper: Um no, mommy, I wipe my butt.

[20:52] Lilli Cooper: I wish Bodie wiped his butt.

[20:53] Lilli Cooper: No, you don't.

[20:56] Lilli Cooper: No, honey.

[20:59] Lilli Cooper: Let me check your underwear.

[21:01] Lilli Cooper: No, um, so uh my question is like getting down to the minutiae of eight shows a week.

[21:09] Lilli Cooper: First of all, I want to know how it works in when you are doing the 10 to six rehearsals.

[21:14] Lilli Cooper: Yes, and then I want to know kind of what that schedule is with baby, with hubby, with mom as the HO's a week.

[21:25] Lilli Cooper: Right, right, right.

[21:26] Lilli Cooper: So there's two different kinds of experiences you have when you're doing a show.

[21:31] Lilli Cooper: You have the 10 to 6 rehearsal day, and then you have once you're well, then you have tech rehearsal, which is a shit show.

[21:36] Lilli Cooper: Excuse my language, but you know, you're in you're there, you might as well be sleeping at the theater and never seeing your family.

[21:42] Lilli Cooper: So that's like a three, four weeks of absolute hell.

[21:45] Lilli Cooper: And then once you open a show, you're in your eight-show week schedule where you're mostly doing shows at night and you have the whole day, which is lovely.

[21:51] Lilli Cooper: So rehearsal is the perk.

[21:54] Lilli Cooper: I always try to think, again, it's remembering gratitude, right?

[21:57] Lilli Cooper: I always try to think of the best moment of the day.

[22:01] Lilli Cooper: In rehearsal, I have rehearsal 10 to 6.

[22:04] Lilli Cooper: I don't see my baby at all throughout the day, but I get to put him to bed, and it's so wonderful.

[22:09] Lilli Cooper: And that is my goal.

[22:10] Lilli Cooper: I run home at six o'clock to put my baby to bed.

[22:13] Lilli Cooper: And it's great.

[22:15] Lilli Cooper: And then, of course, you're like, oh, I want to stay up and I want to watch TV and I want to have a glass of wine and I want to talk to my husband at like midnight, and you're like, oh great, I have to wake up in five hours.

[22:25] Lilli Cooper: So that is tough because the baby's waking up at five or six or whatever time he wants to wake up, because it's his world we're living in.

[22:35] Lilli Cooper: And then we get into a performance schedule, which is, you know, for the most part, you see your family all day, uh, for me, and it's wonderful, but you miss that bedtime, and it's the one day off a week you have.

[22:49] Lilli Cooper: Oh, it's like you just cherish that bedtime and putting him to bed.

[22:53] Lilli Cooper: Um, so the logistics are are are kind of crazy because you're switching it up almost every day.

[22:59] Lilli Cooper: My husband is a personal trainer, his hours are crazy.

[23:02] Lilli Cooper: He wakes up at 4 30 in the morning.

[23:03] Lilli Cooper: So we're kind of like tag teaming parenting.

[23:06] Lilli Cooper: Like I'll literally bring my son onto the train and I'll meet my husband on the platform.

[23:11] Lilli Cooper: I'll be like, okay, you take him and I'll meet you at six up on 125th Street, and we'll switch off, and then I'll go to work.

[23:19] Lilli Cooper: Like it's crazy.

[23:21] Lilli Cooper: So we're an actual like what's that like race car team where like they come and they like take the wheels off.

[23:27] Lilli Cooper: Like that's what we feel like as parents.

[23:30] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, yeah.

[23:30] Lilli Cooper: Exactly.

[23:32] Lilli Cooper: Pit crew, pit crew, pit crew.

[23:34] Lilli Cooper: We're a pit crew for our child.

[23:38] Lilli Cooper: Um so it's it's a lot of like planning, and you know, my husband's not a big planner.

[23:44] Lilli Cooper: So it's a lot of like scheduling and planning and making sure everything's okay.

[23:48] Lilli Cooper: And then things go wrong, of course.

[23:50] Lilli Cooper: So then you gotta take the baby to rehearsal, which is great, because then the baby gets to everybody and he gets to walk around by stage and he gets to be backstage in on our dressing rooms.

[24:01] Lilli Cooper: I mean, I remember in POTUS last summer when my son was under a year old, I was nursing him, and I would either have to nurse him or pump every few hours.

[24:11] Lilli Cooper: And so ideally, I wanted to be able to see him and nurse him.

[24:15] Lilli Cooper: So I I had my husband bring my baby to the theater, and this was during this was in the depths of COVID rules backstage.

[24:22] Lilli Cooper: So we hardly could get any visitors.

[24:24] Lilli Cooper: So my husband had to test before he could even walk into the theater.

[24:28] Lilli Cooper: And he would bring my baby, but he couldn't stay.

[24:30] Lilli Cooper: So he would stand outside as I was nursing my child at a half hour call before the show as I'm putting my makeup on.

[24:37] Lilli Cooper: It's wild, right?

[24:39] Lilli Cooper: And in between shows, I would run home to go nurse him and then run back.

[24:43] Lilli Cooper: It's not like, you know, before before a kid, I remember I said this to my brother the other day.

[24:48] Lilli Cooper: I was like, remember matinees when you thought you couldn't get anything done before Matinee.

[24:54] Lilli Cooper: You were like, when I was like 25, and I was like, oh God, a matinee, two o'clock.

[24:59] Lilli Cooper: It's just so early.

[25:01] Lilli Cooper: I can't do anything.

[25:04] Lilli Cooper: Meanwhile, I'm like driving out to Jersey to a birthday party and taking him to swim class and like everything before a matinee now.

[25:12] Lilli Cooper: It's true.

[25:12] Lilli Cooper: I have a whole life before one BM before 1 p.m.

[25:16] Lilli Cooper: Like a full day.

[25:18] Lilli Cooper: So that's cool and positive, I think also.

[25:21] Lilli Cooper: Um but yeah, it's when I really think about it, it's one of those things where your adrenaline and your love and your you know passion just like gets you through it.

[25:31] Lilli Cooper: But you kind of like take a pause and you look back and you're like, wow, that was insane.

[25:36] Lilli Cooper: I did eight shows a week while nursing an infant.

[25:39] Lilli Cooper: Like what?

[25:41] Lilli Cooper: I mean and not getting much sleep.

[25:43] Lilli Cooper: And not no, not getting any sleep.

[25:46] Lilli Cooper: I mean, that was in the period of sleep training and you know, him waking up every three hours and being up at four o'clock in the morning and just having to be up with him and then going to work and having to be at a 10, you know, you have to be awake and alive to do the show.

[26:05] Lilli Cooper: It's not like we're sitting at an office job where you get to sit and just be on your computer all day.

[26:11] Lilli Cooper: It's like physical running around.

[26:14] Lilli Cooper: Um, so yeah, it's hardcore.

[26:17] Lilli Cooper: It's really intense.

[26:18] Lilli Cooper: And I found the challenging, you know, when you've got the mental load, you're managing all you're managing the schedule of everything.

[26:25] Lilli Cooper: This needs to happen before this happens, and then that needs to happen before this happens, and then they need to be there.

[26:29] Lilli Cooper: And when you're doing that and you're also trying to memorize lines and you're tired, and the there's just not enough space.

[26:38] Lilli Cooper: So it's interesting.

[26:40] Lilli Cooper: I that is an interesting challenge.

[26:42] Lilli Cooper: I also notice another challenge is like from having not.

[26:49] Lilli Cooper: This is a my son is four.

[26:51] Lilli Cooper: This is the first time that I've been uh on Broadway since having him, that I'm so used to putting him to bed at eight and then being like, oh lying down, turning the TV on and binge watching something with my husband.

[27:06] Lilli Cooper: Well, those days are over because I have to have the most energy I have all day at 8 p.m. Even no matter if my kid woke me up at 6:30 in the morning jumping on the bed. No matter what, you know. We do become expert multitaskers.

[27:21] Laura Bell Bundy: Oh, yeah.

[27:22] Lilli Cooper: Like we do, I mean, didn't you when we were learning lines for the show, which was very challenging, it's a very fast-paced show, lots of words. We're, you know, we have accents, it's a very kind of like unique way of learning, um, memorizing. So I think a lot of us recorded our lines and listened to them. And so, like Laura Bell would be listening to them in the car ride to work and to home. I would be listening to them while making my son breakfast, you know, like just multitasking. It's constantly doing three or four things at once.

[27:52] Laura Bell Bundy: Yes.

[27:52] Lilli Cooper: And that's how our brains kind of work. And it's almost like I'm unable to do anything less now. Like I'm almost constantly thinking of five things at once. I'm like, while I'm doing this podcast, thinking about like, okay, wait, am I gonna see my son before the matinee, or am I gonna pick him up at 5:30 after? Are we going to the playground? What is he gonna eat for dinner? You know what I mean? It's like all of these things.

[28:14] Laura Bell Bundy: Yes.

[28:14] Lilli Cooper: And you're that's just how our brains have been rewired, kind of. My son is currently en route with my stepsister who's going to meet my mom for my mom to take him to Aladdin today, which is his very first Broadway show.

[28:26] Laura Bell Bundy: That's so exciting.

[28:28] Lilli Cooper: Um, and I'm kind of sad I'm not gonna be the one to take him. But my mom was like, well, I'm gonna be dead one day. Let me have this.

[28:38] Laura Bell Bundy: All right, Lilli Cooper. We will let you.

[28:42] Lilli Cooper: So um, I've I really think you're doing such a good job.

[28:48] Laura Bell Bundy: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[28:51] Lilli Cooper: And you know, sometimes at night when I'm like in bed, I'm like, I'm not doing this well. I'm failing. Like, that's what it feels like. So it is really nice to hear, and it's nice to like remind yourself like no matter what, no matter these struggles that you go through, like, I'm still succeeding, and you have to kind of you have to give yourself that credit and pat yourself on the back every now and then to, you know, get you through.

[29:14] Laura Bell Bundy: Yeah, but you're doing it beautifully, and you're so great in our play.

[29:21] Lilli Cooper: So funny, she's so funny.

[29:24] Laura Bell Bundy: She's the Bea Arthur of 1923.

[29:28] Lilli Cooper: Bea Arthur may have been the Bea Arthur of 1923.

[29:31] Laura Bell Bundy: Who knows?

[29:31] Lilli Cooper: Exactly. Um, but uh she's so funny, and you know, I see your face light up when you talk about Bodie. I know just the source of joy your family brings to you, and I'm so happy for you that you're doing it all.

[29:48] Laura Bell Bundy: Doing it all. We have 10 minutes left. If anybody wants to ask a question um about this topic, or of Lilli, or of me, or of Women of Tomorrow, please feel free.

[30:05] Lilli Cooper: Yes.

[30:06] Laura Bell Bundy: I know at the very beginning you were talking about the things that this country does well and not so well for mothers and providing the things that they need. I'm curious how then how that applies in the Broadway industry, the things that Broadway does well to help others and the things that maybe we need to improve on.

[30:21] Lilli Cooper: Great question. So if the mics didn't pick that up because it's a podcast, we should reiterate that question of what Broadway does well and maybe could improve on for uh parents in the industry. Um I think one thing that is really vital and needed is available child care for auditions during rehearsals. I mean, you know, I don't know what the solution is, but sometimes I see people struggle so badly trying to find someone to watch their kid when they go to an audition and sometimes have to bring them. I remember my dad's an actor. I remember sitting in hallways of audition studios while he went into audition, you know. And uh so that's like if there could be some sort of like if equity could have a child care situation here, just like a 10 to 6 thing like town during rehearsals time during auditions, right?

[31:23] Laura Bell Bundy: Yeah.

[31:23] Lilli Cooper: Oh, like our dues should go toward that. Our equity dues should go towards that. You know, I feel like that's something very valid. Um, another thing that I have learned.

[31:33] Laura Bell Bundy: They can have like a little theater camp. The kids would be just watch musicals all day.

[31:40] Lilli Cooper: It's it's does it doesn't count as screen time when it's a musical.

[31:44] Laura Bell Bundy: Well, it would also be it would also be a great job for actors who needed temporary work that they could come in and they could do like music classes and dance classes. It can be like a system of like helping everybody.

[32:00] Lilli Cooper: Little actors.

[32:01] Laura Bell Bundy: I love it. That's a good plan. Let's work on it. Um, okay. Um another thing that I'm uh I have learned as a parent in the industry is to make your presence known and to not shy away from the fact that I'm a mom and I'm working and I'm nursing and y'all need to know that. I'm about to put a pump in my shirt in front of you all, and you're gonna have to deal with it because I'm pumping right now, and that's that. And letting everyone know I need to pump from this time to this time. I am having child care issues. I'm gonna be a half hour late to rehearsal. Whatever it is, it's just making it known to everybody and the fact and it and it's and not apologizing for it, saying, This is my life. You have hired me, it's part of my identity, and therefore you have hired a mother with a child, and that is something that you, as the producer director has to support.

[32:56] Lilli Cooper: Uh unequivocally, it's just a fact, and I won't accept anything less. And and that's what it is. It's it's knowing what you're worth. And the fact is, if you hire me, you know you're hiring somebody with a huge added responsibility. And hopefully I'm worth it.

[33:13] Laura Bell Bundy: You are hey, you know, I will say I noticed in our contracts that there was paid parental leave.

[33:22] Lilli Cooper: Yes.

[33:23] Laura Bell Bundy: And I I thought, well, that's That's new. I don't know. Well, maybe I didn't notice it before because I never had to, right? But I I noticed it here and I was like, wow, that's that's and that's the particular contract that we're on. But I do think, you know, historically, um, there is this sort of uh, you know, with the the way that we function is like don't call out, try, you know, try to do as many shows as possible. The show must go on, all this energy of um just that stay the course. Uh there's also, you know, points or we're only allowed a certain number of six sick days before we start getting docked for doing shows. And I I think when you're a parent that should be adjusted because it's not just for you, it's your child that gets sick.

It's beyond and beyond and beyond. So in terms of now New York state has uh FMLA and stuff like that that we can rely upon, but um I do think that maybe we should kind of investigate that a little bit for people who have families um in a in our Broadway contracts.

[34:35] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, absolutely. But one thing that I do feel like um uh I've I've experienced with the productions that I've been a part of is um an open dialogue, and that is something that I think the Broadway community is wonderful at is listening. And if I'm saying I need a nursing room or I need to be able to bring my baby, where can my husband or babysitter sit and play in a rehearsal studio while I'm here, you know what I mean? And the producers listening to that has been really, really wonderful and positive for me.

[35:07] Laura Bell Bundy: Yeah, I would say with with our particular production and our stage management have been wonderful about understanding our needs as mothers and our uh and and having our children come around every once in a while. And we're fortunate that we have some of the the COVID measures removed where we can now. Um we have our little babies in the green room upstairs.

[35:33] Lilli Cooper: So fun.

[35:33] Laura Bell Bundy: Huck got to watch 30 minutes of our play the other day. And he loved it.

[35:36] Lilli Cooper: He loved it.

[35:37] Laura Bell Bundy: Mommy, what's behind the door? Where did you go when you changed your clothes? Like he doesn't know what backstage is. You know?

[35:52] Lilli Cooper: Um, I think we're are we we're gonna be wrapping it. Three minutes. Is anybody else have a question?

[35:57] Audience Member: Yes. Did you all feel like you needed to get to a certain point in your career before you could even consider having a kid in a situation? Like because of how demanding it is, especially in the beginning?

[36:08] Lilli Cooper: Yeah, that's a great question. So um the question is, did you think that you had to get to a certain point in your career before even considering having kids?

[36:16] Laura Bell Bundy: Yes.

[36:16] Lilli Cooper: And the answer is yes for me. Because again, the the big question I was worried of was, will I be forgotten? Will I have to start from scratch, basically? And I didn't want that. And I think that is an unfortunate scenario, but I think that is kind of how it has worked for me.

[36:33] Laura Bell Bundy: Yes.

[36:34] Lilli Cooper: I think that that is that's a great question. And I'm going to second what Lily said is that I spent so much of my life being career focused that it was all about getting to this goal or this goal or this goal. And I definitely had that that feeling and that fear of can I afford to take this break to have this child? Do I need to be on a TV show before this happens or have my leading role on Broadway before this happens, or feel financially secure before this happens? And I think we're all everybody's life is different. Sometimes babies bring huge blessings to someone's career. And what I know for certain is that as an actor, the emotional depth that I have now as a result of having a child far exceeds what it was before.

And I'm a far better actress because I now understand the human condition in a way that I never did before. And so it impacts the way that I understand all the characters I play, the stories that we tell. And I don't think, and my advice is don't put your life on hold because the universe conspires what the heart desires. Go do what you believe and you are inspired to do, whether that is to have a career and only have a career, is be single or have a child or have a marriage or or have a company on the side while you do the whatever. Whatever it is, it will work out. It might be tough, but it it will work, it'll work itself out.

[38:29] Laura Bell Bundy: I I have a song on our Women of Tomorrow album called American Girl. And it's a little bit about me, but also the condition of women right now, which is, you know, we're trying to do it all, so we've got to get ahead. And it it says, um, too young for the uh too young for the bar, so I went to the bank, got a loan for college, where all I did was drank, working so hard to repay Sally May, gonna have to freeze my eggs if I want kids someday.

[38:58] Lilli Cooper: Oh, wow.

[39:00] Laura Bell Bundy: And the idea is that here we are as women with a ticking clock, and we feel that that puts pressure on a lot of things. Our careers, our relationships, all the things. And it's a real dilemma. Um, and it's a dilemma that I faced. I did IVF to have a kid. By the time I was thought I was ready to do it, where it seemed like, oh, the timing feels right, but it didn't work. So, and then I thought the timing was right last year. Didn't work. So, uh, but I believe that there's a plan in a way. And I feel a lot of gratitude for how it has worked out. And um, and anyway, uh so yes, that that has been a the message is hire moms because we're really good actors.

[39:56] Lilli Cooper: And we're great multitaskers.

[39:58] Laura Bell Bundy: Yeah, great multitaskers. Uh, thank you guys for being here today. Thank you, Lilli.

[40:02] Lilli Cooper: Thank you for having me.

[40:03] Laura Bell Bundy: This was wonderful. I love you.

[40:05] Lilli Cooper: I love you too.

[40:06] Laura Bell Bundy: You're wonderful. Thanks for us, everybody.

[40:11] Lilli Cooper: Thanks. Check out the Women of Tomorrow podcast and our Instagram and uh power to the people.

[40:19] Laura Bell Bundy: Hey, hey, she came to play.

[40:22] Lilli Cooper: Oh, oh, get out of her way.

[40:25] Laura Bell Bundy: And thank you, mama.

[40:26] Lilli Cooper: Thank you, friend.

[40:27] Laura Bell Bundy: I got front row seats to watch the queen ascend. Baby, how you feelin'?

[40:33] Lilli Cooper: Breaking that glass ceiling.