This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tonya Pinkins: Welcome back to part two of my conversation with this genius tech, Andy Carluccio of Liminal Entertainment Technologies.

[0:26] Andy Carluccio: Now you just talked about data, and one of the things my simple self learned this year is how, you know, when Google was doing whatever Google was doing, they found there was all this exhaust and that they could make even more money off of that what they were calling exhaust stuff, which was all this very intimate information about us individually that actually allows them to hack us and make us do things now. What is the exhaust of this performance thing that data that you're getting from your work now?

[1:03] Andy Carluccio: I think I'm learning a lot about performers. Um, that has been critical. Every time I've—and I'll tell you about Molière and the park specifically, because every time I've worked with them, I've learned some really important lessons that have completely changed my practice for the next show that I do with them, right? So we start with the misanthrope. That was a Zoom performance where it was about, you know, virtual backgrounds, and you know, we started with that kind of stuff. And, uh, I learned about how important eyelines are, right? I learned about, um, how the physicality of the script in a reading and how that affects the performer. And I learned about, you know, actors having to turn their videos and mics on and off is really distracting in the middle of a performance, so on and so forth.

So then we did Tartuffe, and I took away all of, you know, as many of those problems as I could, but I learned things about, you know, the specificity of the facial performance being important. So resolution really mattered, right? I learned that, um, that the, uh, the worlds they were that we were constructing that they were living in were more convincing if the lighting was consistent. So when we got to School for Wives, we added the lighting component. We added the DSLR cameras to be able to see the, you know, the performance of the face a little more clearly. Um, now we're gearing up for a production of Penmanship, where it really is about compositing, treating the actor as a layer in this world.

Um, you know, going in in School for Wives, we played with a little bit of that idea with the fishbowl scene, which I love. I go back and I watch you do that, and I get a real kick out of it when you poke some of the fish on screen. I find that just so amusing. And I think we're gonna lean into some of that now going forward, seeing that as a kind of persistent.

[2:40] Tonya Pinkins: So tell me a little more about the compositing in Penmanship. Like one of the things that I loved when I watched School for Wives was the flowers coming out of her dress as the sort of expression of the love that was happening. What kind of compositing are you gonna be doing in Penmanship?

[2:57] Andy Carluccio: I think we're gonna be working a lot with color as both a presence and an absence. Um, we'll be desaturating things here and there, but we'll also be super saturating things like sunrises and sunsets. And, um, I think we're gonna lead into sort of the old photo feel, um, you know, this idea of imperfection in an image telling us part of the story as well. So we'll layer in some of that grain, some of that, um, uh, distortion, uh, decay. I think that'll play a role. Um, and we'll watch it evolve right over the course of the performance. So this, um, uh, we'll tie that in with key narrative moments. Um, and I think we'll have, you know, these moments of clarity and of color. And I think we'll have these other moments that are really subdued and decayed. Um, and that this will be, of course, all done live and that compositing will play that role of sort of squashing and stretching the space that we're in.

[3:54] Tonya Pinkins: So as you describe that, it sounds to me like you are being a production designer, art designer, art director. But like on School for Wives, we had a scenic designer. So tell me the difference between what you're doing and what they're doing because they can't even really know what all the possibilities are that are available in the world that you can see that they don't work in.

[4:18] Andy Carluccio: Well, one of the things that I've loved so much about online performance is how collaborative it has been, uh, and how much of a privilege that really is. Um, and I think that scenic design, it's like I was saying earlier, you know, we're what we're trying to do here is lean on people's careers and their knowledge and their practice and arm them with that last five percent of knowledge that they need to be able to do it in this medium, right? So Lena, um, the scenic designer for School for Wives, uh, knows a lot about photography, understands a lot about, you know, um, the design and space and structure. And of course, we modified those ideas a lot in this medium. We deconstructed, we broke, we shattered.

Um, and what I really enjoy is, you know, for every hour that the cast is rehearsing, I'm rehearsing with the directors and designers trying to show them how their ideas are translating and tracking so that they can iterate in real time with their own design practice. Now I'm sitting there in the media server, and it is an art form for me too. It is, you know, there is a design component of it. The assembly of this thing is itself an artistic practice. Um, but then being able to reflect that back, sort of to—we call it like, you know, the pre-visualization process, right? The previewing process that iterates the form ahead of the performance. That workflow has been really fascinating.

[5:31] Tonya Pinkins: Tell me a little more about that.

[5:33] Andy Carluccio: Right. So we'll, you know, uh, I found that, um, uh, you know, obviously with these contracts that we're working under, we have a lot of time without the actors, um, because of, you know, uh, the restrictions on that. So we've had, uh, for School for Wives, we had a digital puppet that took the place of every, uh, every actor in the show. So we'd put on these, you know, these mock performances in between all of the rehearsal sessions to see and track and anticipate what was gonna happen, right? So this, there's this fascinating thing that we found with that process where, you know, normally when you're doing theater, right? You will stage it, and then you will tech it, and then you will perform it.

And in this medium, what we've been doing is we've been teching it, and we've been staging it, and then we perform it. So we've reversed it. We tech the scenes before we rehearse them, and then of course we revise and iterate, and it kind of blends together eventually. But, um, you really have to sort of set up all the variables first. You have to make the world for the performer to act in so you can understand what, uh, what that performance really says when you're giving rehearsal notes. So we've been building the show ahead of the actors actually performing the show or rehearsing the show. This has been fascinating for me.

[6:42] Tonya Pinkins: I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. Um, what is, um, a vision you're having? It may be like a teeny little something that the technology doesn't even exist yet, but like there's something that you're being called to make that you might not even be able to fully describe, but you were like, this thing I'm gonna do one day.

[7:08] Andy Carluccio: I'll give you an example of it from something someone told me. I met him like 20 years ago. I met a man, uh, he was a physicist at Cambridge, and he said that digital storage space didn't exist at the time for what he was envisioning as a time when, and I think we're there now, you could, um, put on some kind of headset and there would be trackers on athletes, and you could experience your sport as if you were various players on the field. But he said at the time there wasn't enough, uh, storage possibility on small enough devices to capture all the data that would be in an athlete doing what they were doing so that you could, you know, move around and be different players in the thing. That was his vision.

[7:55] Andy Carluccio: That's, uh, that's fascinating. Um, I would say that for me, I, uh, I have a word for it. It's, uh, it's referred to as volumetric capture. And this is, um, the idea that we're recording in 3D. Um, so we—and there have started to—we're starting to see some prototypes of this concept. But, um, I'll give you an example from, uh, from my background in projection design. Um, I'm really interested in the relationship between digital media and the body. Um, so I have done a lot of work on making projections that can track and follow dancers. Um, so not just sort of projecting into the space, and if the dancer happens to encounter it, that's great, but actually having projections that track and follow and morph to the shape of their bodies with the time, right?

And so this is, um, I would call this live masking or live projection mapping. And the way that I've done this is by putting out, um, depth cameras into the space and doing some machine learning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And eventually you end up with this, um, thing that lets you track the projections. Well, the expansion of this is something called volumetric capture, where the cameras are, you know, yes, they're getting this frame and they're getting the, you know, the color and the, um, and capturing the light. But the in volumetric capture, you have potentially hundreds of cameras in sort of a dome around the performance space, and it's capturing the 3D location of every, every, you know, pixel in space.

Um, and it creates this thing called the point cloud. And the reason you do this is that it lets you move the camera in post. It lets you, um, you know, move a virtual camera through space and see other sides of the performer, move, you know, through performers and experience the space as though it were a 3D model, but it was a physical thing that was captured. So this idea of volumetric capture, I think, is going to become more and more important as we think about, yes, film, but also in theatrical practice, virtual production. These, these sort of things start to merge together, and I think volumetrics is going to be a huge part of that. So I'm really interested in researching that right now.

[10:03] Andy Carluccio: Okay, so I I'm gonna see if I can translate that into what I did. I did a play in uh LA called uh Time Alone, and it was the first time I'd ever seen projections where I don't know how they were doing it, but the projections were on different walls so that we were just on a blank stage and there were two actors in two separate spaces, and they were projecting, so it really looked like 3D spaces. He was in a prison, I was in a kitchen. Uh, they were even able to do things where I, like a ghost of myself, was walking through my kitchen at different times, and I could be watching myself at different times in my life. And what you just talked about, there was a moment where the actor, there were like he he was describing being in solitaire and kind of just getting the life sucked out of him by vines. And the projections were these vines growing just on his body on the stage. Are you talking about something like that? Or are you talking about something totally different?

[11:14] Andy Carluccio: No, that's that's exactly it. It's exactly it. It's about being able to identify what's in that space and work on specifically those things. Right. So if you want projections that are on this performer, call it a soft body, right? Something that's flexible and not, you know, like a on a two by four, this is easy, right? On a flat, this is easy. It has a defined shape, and you can figure out how to map to that. But on a performer, there's this complex motion. And uh and being able to map to that as you're just describing with the vines, that's something that I find really, really interesting. Because it relates the performer's choreography to the digital media and how we experience it. And they modify each other. So I find that really interesting and important. It's this convergence, right? Of the two, and and that to me is fascinating.

[11:56] Andy Carluccio: Well, I do think that this digital technology is uh of performance space is going to be here for a couple more years. And I don't think it's ever gonna go away with, you know, uh, I think Molier in the Park said they went from a maximum of 2,000 people if they sold out in the real live performance to 40, 50,000 people online. I I think that this is nobody's ever gonna go back to just nobody's ever giving that up. Right. So, I mean, there's not a lot of you. Who else is doing what you're doing in the world? And are you all collaborating with each other and talking to each other and sharing stuff?

[12:35] Andy Carluccio: That's been one of the best parts, I think has been the collaboration. So I I created um a public Slack group for people who are working on this kind of stuff. Yeah, wait a minute. So you already talked to us, what's a public Slack group?

[12:46] Andy Carluccio: So it's a basically a group chat, uh a group chat that's open to the public where people can come in and they can ask questions or they can share showcases of what they've been doing. Some of them are using our technology, some of them are not. And we're just, you know, we're just talking about the the the medium and it's been great because I've seen a lot of really young people. I've seen high school students joining this and getting mentored by you know people with decades of digital media experience. And that's been that's been a real a real privilege to be able to help moderate and watch that happen. So I think yeah it's definitely a collaborative form. I think you know right now sort of the independent creatives the you know the the New York underbelly artists like those people are are put in a very prominent place right now and they're talking to each other and we're commuting and communicating and uh and it's been really fun to watch that group and and watch other mentoring each other and sharing idea.

[13:17] Andy Carluccio: I love how you you keep saying collaboration because for me that is like like sex for me. Like when you're working with another artist and you're sharing what the it's in your head and they're sharing what's in their head and then the two things come together and they change each other and something new that is you know more than the sum of one plus one that is exciting to me. And I think it's what keeps this space that we live in animated the back and forth and the back and forth and the the continuous flow between people. And I think like capitalism and civilization, sort of the storing of things in places and hoarding is you know, d leads to the degeneration of things. It's gotta always be flowing in in this way back and forth.

[14:18] Andy Carluccio: So you reminded me of this frustration I'm having with some artists. I hired I don't know. I hired some people to do some VFX work for me. I I I just were recommended that they were good. I told them what I needed. They t they told me what they charged, I told them what I could afford, they told me what they would charge me. And now it's and and I'm supposed to tell them when they show me things what's what it looks like. And so I'll say, well, this doesn't look real or that doesn't look like and invariably every thing they say to me is, oh, I'm sorry, you didn't pay us enough money for it to look good. And I'm like, what the hell does that mean? Like I was shopping for shitty work. Like, is this how you want your work to go out into what do you want people to see this? Well, it's just the truth. You didn't pay us enough for it to be good.

[15:07] Andy Carluccio: Can you help me even understand? It's so it's so uh it's it's so antithetical to the way that the you know the collaborators work, right? It's this, it's you know, in in the art practice, it's about elevating each other, right? And it's about it's about pursuing and and trying to get the best product in the commercial space. It seems so so much that it's all about the money and it's all about the you know, it it's all about the client um and employer relationship. And I think that uh, you know, being a small business owner, I've really tried to resist that. I really tried. I really tried. And I because I can understand, I see the temptation to go that route, right? I can see the you know, the the return on investment needs to be there.

You the number of hours that you, you know, that you put on projects have to be balanced to be able to serve all the clients at the same time. To me, that's why I've made a lot of my software free uh to the public. Um it's like, okay, I'm not going to, I don't want to hold the medium back, right? I want to I want to provide stuff out there that lets creatives do their best work. Um, and so if that means you know, becoming completely divested from the product in order to be able to service it the way it needs to be and not hold it back. Um that's what we do.

[16:06] Andy Carluccio: And that's exactly what we did with our with our um Zoom OSC technology. So um I think you have to you have to mentally divorce yourself from that workflow if you're going to be a creative, right? If you're going to be an innovator, um you you absolutely have to get out of that mentality as quickly as possible. It's costing. Tell me what the Zoom OSC we talking words, we don't know what these words are.

[16:28] Andy Carluccio: I'm coming back. I'm I'm going back. So so I um I created a tool in uh I guess March April timeframe, right as the pandemic was beginning um to try to make performing on Zoom easier. And the way I approach the problem was by making Zoom work like a console, right? We have lightboards, soundboards, we have these things that we have in the theater that technicians are used to working with. So I made Zoom act like one of those. Um and the tools called Zoom OSC. It's a free download from our website. It's uh compatible with Mac and Windows. We try to make it as you know easy to use as possible. And the idea is it just gives you more control of Zoom, let's you build cues for a Zoom show, lets you um rearrange the the gallery view as needed.

Um it lets you treat your actors like cameras in a media server, right? If if they were uh part of a working as a projection designer, you're familiar with input sources and compositors and projector outputs. Um so we pair nicely with media servers to be able to do that stuff and the whole software is free. Um and we because we really think that it's uh it's a helpful tool. It's not it's not uh um an end-to-end product, it's a tool that helps your workflow. Um and so we we made that available this summer. And we've actually just released uh a new update to it. So um we're uh it's an active development for us, um, but it is something that we put out there to try to help uh the online Zoom performances.

[17:50] Andy Carluccio: Now I'm twice your age. You have, you know, the life you've already had, you might have three or four more lives left. What are you? I mean, you know, if we take the number of years you already have, you might have three more of them. What do you think you're gonna do with it?

[18:08] Andy Carluccio: That's a great question. I I don't know, to be honest. And um I uh I know that whatever I end up doing and wherever wherever I go next, um, I want to be in a collaborative space. I don't want to be um you know locked away in some office just you know um putting things out in the world and hoping that people use them. I want to be right there with them, engaging with it. To me, the that's the only way I can make, right? I can't I would not be able to build the software that I build if I was completely isolated from the people who are.

[18:37] Tonya Pinkins: But you told me you're in your basement.

[18:40] Andy Carluccio: I am, but I'm in my basement by myself. I am more connected to people than I've ever been in my entire life. Um I I am able to I've spoken to more people, I have met more people, I've gotten more perspectives. I have uh learned more things about the world than I have uh throughout the entire rest of my life. And it's been in these, you know, six to nine months that we've had in lockdown. Uh that is that is a privilege. That is privilege. Um and that is uh I gotta understand how it can happen. You just came from being in a college. You were in rooms with hundreds of people every day. How has this space been different?

[19:18] Andy Carluccio: It's different between seeing people and knowing people, right? I've I've uh certainly probably like observed fewer people, right? I've I've I've I have uh not incidentally encountered as many people, but one of the things that I found with this medium is that when everybody hops on a Zoom call, there's an intimacy to that space. And um I have I have met a lot of artists, right? We work, we've worked with um thousands of different shows now through Zoom OSC and Streamweaver. Um I've always I've had you know, we had consultations with people from academic theater to children's theater to off-Broadway Productions, right? And they bring their production teams and we chat and get to know each other.

I learn about the projects they're working on, they learn about our software and our back end, and we've really gotten to know each other in that period of time through the intimacy of this medium, right? So I'll say that, you know, even though I may have encountered, you know, more people on a college campus uh in this time and especially in the arts world, because of how welcoming and and the dispositions that people have in this space and the expectation of collaboration that exists in the performance world.

[20:20] Andy Carluccio: Um, I've really gotten to know more people in this time frame.

[20:23] Tonya Pinkins: Now now I have to ask you this. Are you living with your family?

[20:25] Andy Carluccio: So you are there are some human beings that you're having contact with during the time.

[20:30] Tonya Pinkins: There are some human beings, yes.

[20:31] Andy Carluccio: There are other humans uh in the proximity.

[20:35] Andy Carluccio: Uh so I'm not totally isolated uh in that sense, but that has also been good um to spend some time and to be a family and to uh um to have this uh this bonus time that we weren't expecting.

[20:47] Tonya Pinkins: Now now you're in Virginia, right?

[20:50] Andy Carluccio: I am.

[20:51] Andy Carluccio: Yep, just that's not a way to do it.

[20:52] Tonya Pinkins: My movie uh Red Pill takes place in Virginia.

[20:56] Andy Carluccio: Do you you know I've been thinking a lot about uh immersive technology and like VR and its capacity to increase empathy and stuff?

[21:05] Tonya Pinkins: What do you think this technology you're creating is is there a way that it can be used to counter fake news, disinformation, uh, you know, foment social justice and equality?

[21:23] Andy Carluccio: Well, I think that's definitely been a go uh a serious goal for us. You know, we I I'm I'm really happy to say that the majority of work that's been produced with Zoom OSC and Streamweaver has been cats who are people of color.

[21:35] Andy Carluccio: Um, and that has been, I think, critical. I know I I see this as um, you know, for all the things that that COVID has done that's been terrible in the world, it's been a it has leveled the playing field in a big way.

[21:47] Andy Carluccio: Um, you know, it's it's it's allowed me to see perspectives and to see um uh uh work elevated to the forefront of sort of the public consciousness that is not just your your your commercialized you know Disney products or your or your Broadway work, but it's been the community theater, it's been the it's been the performance artist, like I was saying earlier.

[22:06] Andy Carluccio: And it's been um, you know, I I I thought it was fascinating to have an all-women cast of in school for wives.

[22:11] Andy Carluccio: And those kind of things are now at the forefront, right? Those are the things that we're that we're consuming in the public consciousness.

[22:17] Andy Carluccio: And and that has been the most common deployment of our tech, which has been super exciting for me.

[22:22] Andy Carluccio: Uh that's again, that's why that's another part of the reason why Zoom OSC is free. I'm trying to democratize this.

[22:26] Andy Carluccio: I'm trying to get it into as many hands as possible so there isn't this sort of pay-to-play barrier to entry um to be able to get your work out there and to get quality work out there, not just work that you feel, you know, that you're constantly constrained by.

[22:41] Andy Carluccio: Like a lot of, I think a lot of people I work with do feel frustrated about, you know, about Zoom and having to use it to do their work.

[22:47] Andy Carluccio: But once we can get them engaging with the practice, they uh and we give them some tools that liberate their skills in the medium, then they really engage with it.

[22:58] Andy Carluccio: And so that I think in terms of the democratization of things, about the dissemination of of of work and information that trying to create the tools that help them get their work out there and help them make the work look the way they want it to look and feel the way they want it to feel combats this sort of constructed narrative that um you know gets gets shoved into our our brains every time we turn on a television, right?

[23:23] Tonya Pinkins: So it has been such a pleasure to get to like pick your brain as we wrap it up. Is there anything that you came today that you wanted to talk about or share that I like with like no I want to know this.

[23:36] Tonya Pinkins: Is there something that I didn't ask you that you really wanted to to share about what you do?

[23:42] Andy Carluccio: The only other thing I'd like to say is just again to express gratitude to all of the um the performers and to all of the producers and directors who are out there right now who looked at the challenge of our current time and said I'm going to create something and I am you know despite the circumstances despite the socioeconomic socio political environment that I'm in the uh the health conditions that you know that we're experiencing right now so that I am going to continue to create no matter what that takes I have an enormous amount of respect for those people and it's not been easy.

[24:12] Andy Carluccio: You know actors right now are being their own technicians as you know um you know that that the they're doing the heavy lifting and uh when you experience their work um I just I just want people to know how much is going into that how much of a personal investment people are making at this time.

[24:26] Andy Carluccio: And I think you know I I started this company because community theaters around me were having to shut their doors so they didn't feel like they had another option.

[24:33] Andy Carluccio: Um and I wanted to do something about that.

[24:35] Andy Carluccio: And I have just the deepest gratitude to to everybody who's continuing to make right now.

[24:40] Andy Carluccio: Thank you for doing so.

[24:41] Andy Carluccio: Uh the arts right now are perhaps uh least visible but most needed.

[24:47] Andy Carluccio: And I'm hoping that through the the digital work that we're doing, it actually can be more present and prevalent than it ever has been before.

[24:53] Andy Carluccio: And I want to say, just for people who don't understand what it means, is they shipped a whole thing with computers, microphones, lighting, cameras, a whole bunch of cords.

[25:07] Andy Carluccio: I had to buy green screen, I had to buy voltage things because the current in Korea and the current in America are different.

[25:17] Andy Carluccio: I think it's amazing that Edison is so famous and he was wrong.

[25:21] Andy Carluccio: That is one of the things that excites me.

[25:24] Andy Carluccio: And we had to be talked through, you know, setting up all this stuff with the internet and the I mean, it was I I don't remember any of it.

[25:33] Andy Carluccio: You know, I have that short-term memory and out kind of thing.

[25:37] Tonya Pinkins: But uh my last question to you, Andy, is can you think of anything in your life that was really horrible to you at the time?

[25:45] Tonya Pinkins: But when you look back at it now, it was actually really turned out to be a great thing.

[25:54] Andy Carluccio: Absolutely.

[25:56] Andy Carluccio: Um I think that um if I look at um maybe it's cliche, but looking at this moment um uh in this spring, you know, uh lost my job, um, lost um, you know, uh as trivial as it was like you know, graduating um and uh and and and seeing friends and you know, all of those things that you know might be trivial, lost some loved ones um that you know that hit that hit home.

[26:26] Andy Carluccio: And the pandemic has, you know, has really been um a terrible thing for a lot of people.

[26:31] Andy Carluccio: I've been you know super privileged that I'm you know I'm in good health, but um it definitely has been a challenging time.

[26:37] Andy Carluccio: But uh, like I said, it's opened me up in a huge way.

[26:41] Andy Carluccio: Uh it has changed the trajectory of my life, but it has allowed me to uh experience the world in a totally new way.

[26:49] Andy Carluccio: And I think looking at this side of it now, if you had told me, you know, in February, March as things are starting to shut down, that this was going to be the most exciting, most invigorating, most important time of my life.

[26:57] Andy Carluccio: Um I would have said, no, I'm gonna be sheltering in a bunker for you know for six to eight months, and I'm not gonna no way, no way.

[27:04] Andy Carluccio: And um, and you know uh uh this is a blow to early career professionals, right?

[27:09] Andy Carluccio: But but no, this has been um the most incredible adventure.

[27:13] Andy Carluccio: Uh and again, I can say that from a position of privilege.

[27:15] Andy Carluccio: I know it hasn't been for for many, many people, but um I'm hoping that that experience to me is able to help or entertain or you know, whatever whatever I can do um to to give back for the uh the privilege of this moment.

[27:30] Andy Carluccio: Um it really has been a blessing in hindsight.

[27:33] Tonya Pinkins: Thank you, Andy Carluccio of Liminal Entertainment Technologies.

[27:38] Tonya Pinkins: I'm Tonya Pinkins.

[27:40] Tonya Pinkins: This is You Can't SAY THAT on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[27:47] Tonya Pinkins: Thanks for listening to You Can't SAY THAT, the show we can.

[27:52] Tonya Pinkins: I'm Tonya Pinkins, and You Can't SAY THAT is part of the Broadway Podcast Network, produced by Dori Berinstein and Alan Seales, edited by Derek Gunther, with music by Cat Dail.

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[28:33] Tonya Pinkins: We gotta say one truth.

[28:36] Tonya Pinkins: You is kind.

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[28:42] Tonya Pinkins: Tonya Pinkins' horror film Red Pill brings African American perspective to progressive movement.

[28:50] Tonya Pinkins: We are a majority in this country.

[28:54] Tonya Pinkins: And we're gonna win the election.

[29:01] Tonya Pinkins: A red pill is someone who infiltrates a group and then destroys them from the inside.

[29:10] Tonya Pinkins: This place is spooky.

[29:11] Tonya Pinkins: Some people like to live dangerously.

[29:17] Tonya Pinkins: You know what, guys?

[29:18] Tonya Pinkins: I'm gonna go back tomorrow.

[29:20] Tonya Pinkins: Did you hear about the creature woman that attacked a father and son hunting down here?

[29:24] Tonya Pinkins: I don't see the case.

[29:26] Tonya Pinkins: This place creeps me out.

[29:31] Tonya Pinkins: I think we should call the sheriff's office.

[29:52] Tonya Pinkins: A brown people.

[29:54] Tonya Pinkins: They're after all of us.

[29:58] Tonya Pinkins: What do we do, Amelia?

[30:00] Tonya Pinkins: We die.

[30:02] Tonya Pinkins: But we take some of them with us.