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[0:00] Tonya Pinkins: Hi, my name is Tonya Pinkins, and I'm the host of the podcast You Can't SAY THAT on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:07] Tonya Pinkins: This fall, I have a special treat for you.

[0:11] Tonya Pinkins: In honor of my debut feature film RED PILL, Marissa Lynn Daniels Studios has been hosting weekly conversations with my fellow Broadway colleagues and co-host Sierra Renee about the red pilling of America.

[0:26] Tonya Pinkins: These conversations create a safe space for us to talk about the things that are on our mind with an election and a global pandemic.

[0:37] Tonya Pinkins: So join us for the Red Pilling of America, a spotlight series every Saturday at 5 p.m.

[0:45] Tonya Pinkins: Or on the Broadway Podcast Network, You Can't SAY THAT, BPN.fm forward slash YCST.

[0:54] Tonya Pinkins: Join the conversation.

[0:57] Tonya Pinkins: We gotta speak live.

[1:01] Tonya Pinkins: We gotta say what's true for you.

[1:15] Tonya Pinkins: You is kind.

[1:17] Tonya Pinkins: You is smart.

[1:18] Tonya Pinkins: You is important, you is dead.

[1:22] Tonya Pinkins: Tonya Pinkins' horror film RED PILL brings African American perspective to the progressive movement.

[1:30] Tonya Pinkins: We are a majority in this country.

[1:33] Tonya Pinkins: And we're gonna win the election.

[1:39] Tonya Pinkins: Do you know what the red pill is?

[1:41] Tonya Pinkins: A red pill is someone who infiltrates a group and then destroys them from the inside.

[1:50] Tonya Pinkins: This place is spooky.

[1:51] Tonya Pinkins: Some people like to live dangerously.

[1:54] Tonya Pinkins: Yes, why are you so jumpy tonight?

[1:57] Tonya Pinkins: You know what, guys? I'm gonna go back tomorrow.

[2:00] Tonya Pinkins: Did you hear about the creature woman that attacked a father and son hunting down here?

[2:04] Tonya Pinkins: I don't see the case.

[2:06] Tonya Pinkins: This place creeps me out.

[2:11] Tonya Pinkins: I think we should call the sheriff's office.

[2:28] Tonya Pinkins: The only people missing or dead are brown people.

[2:34] Tonya Pinkins: They're after all of us.

[2:38] Tonya Pinkins: What do we do, Amelia?

[2:40] Tonya Pinkins: We die.

[2:42] Tonya Pinkins: But we take some of them with us.

[2:46] Tonya Pinkins: You can't make a dog a vegan.

[2:49] Tonya Pinkins: What system would we go to? How would it look? How could we look our violence with us and share the violence within our own communities so that we were not exporting our violence?

[3:01] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yeah.

[3:03] Tyson Yunkaporta: Well, uh for a start, violence is just a, um, we have a really negative picture of violence.

[3:10] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, so you know, basically, in any complex adaptive system, there is a fair amount of sort of, um, conflict, you know, strong energy, you know, those kinds of things, uh, what we call violence.

[3:25] Tyson Yunkaporta: Uh, but that is distributed throughout the system in a healthy system.

[3:30] Tyson Yunkaporta: It's in tiny amounts all the way through, so that every single point, every agent in that system has a tiny bit, uh, of that.

[3:41] Tyson Yunkaporta: And so that's just happening all the time, but it's not doing any damage.

[3:46] Tyson Yunkaporta: It doesn't do damage to the system because it's just, you know, it's expressed.

[3:51] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, so basically, every sustainable culture has it has, um, it has it has ways of expressing, you know, violence and, uh, detonating that, you know, in ways that are very public, but very transparent, um, highly rule governed and ritualized, and out that goes.

[4:12] Tyson Yunkaporta: I mean, but that's that violence side of things.

[4:15] Tyson Yunkaporta: Uh, but basically, an economic system would be the same thing.

[4:18] Tyson Yunkaporta: It's this one word distributed, you know, and that doesn't mean redistributing all the things that have a price and that some people think are valuable, it changes the idea of value right from the start.

[4:31] Tyson Yunkaporta: If all of your information and energy and resources and everything else are in a constant state of flow and flux and exchange going right through the system.

[4:43] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, so that's what they call in economics, for example, the velocity of the dollar.

[4:48] Tyson Yunkaporta: So the velocity of the dollar is a measure of, um, economic health, and that's the amount of times that a dollar changes hands.

[4:56] Tyson Yunkaporta: Okay.

[4:57] Tyson Yunkaporta: So your GDP doesn't make for a healthy economy, you know, and even most economists will even admit that if you press them a bit.

[5:04] Tyson Yunkaporta: But the measure that they really look for to see if an economy is working is the velocity of the dollar.

[5:09] Tyson Yunkaporta: That's how many times it's changing hands, how far and wide and variably it's moving throughout the system.

[5:16] Tyson Yunkaporta: So, you know, if you've got all every unit of value and energy and everything else in a system moving rapidly right throughout that system, being exchanged so many times, not being collected and gathered into these big static heaps of death, but actually in constant movement, that's when you've got a healthy system.

[5:36] Tonya Pinkins: Is there a healthy system anywhere on the planet anymore?

[5:42] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, you can't, um, yeah, unfortunately, systems need to interact with other systems.

[5:51] Tyson Yunkaporta: So, you know, you could put a big fence around the Amazon and, or you know, you can create these national parks, but they're islands of death, you know, ecosystems move a couple of hundred meters every year.

[6:03] Tyson Yunkaporta: Everything's always moving, you know, and that, uh, if you haven't got at least corridors linking up all these things, so there can be free flow between the systems of matter, energy, etc.

[6:16] Tyson Yunkaporta: You know, everything exists within the systems, but across these natural systems in these closed loops where everything's recycled through.

[6:25] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, but right now we have a world where most of the world is in these open loops, you know.

[6:31] Tyson Yunkaporta: So some places things are going in but nothing's coming out, other places things are being taken out, but nothing's going in.

[6:38] Tyson Yunkaporta: So you end up with these open loop systems all around the planet.

[6:42] Tyson Yunkaporta: And, uh, anyway, so you might have some closed loop systems happening in some national parks, but the problem is that's not happening at the bigger level across with the other systems.

[6:52] Tyson Yunkaporta: You know, one forest has to talk to the next bioregion and talks to this one and this one.

[6:58] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, you know, and we understand this in, you know, in our stories, you know.

[7:03] Tyson Yunkaporta: So we had a big, um, our fish die off right down the Murray-Darling, uh, rivers, you know, uh, which is, you know, goes through several states, this Murray-Darling system, uh, the river was dying up and all billions of fish died, you know, and this was before the fires, and as soon as I saw that happen, I said, Oh, the kangaroo island's gonna burn.

[7:27] Tyson Yunkaporta: Kangaroo island's like in the ocean right down the bottom of Australia.

[7:31] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, but it's on that same, that they're connected through all these systems, and I know that story of the system of those rivers going, going all the way down.

[7:41] Tyson Yunkaporta: It's a big codfish story, and it goes right down and it ends there with that big fellow on that island going up into the sky.

[7:49] Tyson Yunkaporta: So those stories tell us how all those systems are connected and how they exchange matter and energy and information, and we sing those stories as custodians, you know, so that it continues.

[8:04] Tyson Yunkaporta: And so I knew as soon as the fish died that that island was gonna burn, and surely enough within a year it did, you know.

[8:11] Tyson Yunkaporta: Uh, because you think, well, what's that island in the middle of the salt water there? What's that got to do with a freshwater river system?

[8:18] Tyson Yunkaporta: You know, hundreds of miles away.

[8:20] Tyson Yunkaporta: And it's well, they're connected, those systems exchange energy and they exchange matter, you know, all the time, and energy has to be flowing within, but then across different systems.

[8:32] Tyson Yunkaporta: That's that, um, that's that first law of thermodynamics.

[8:36] Tyson Yunkaporta: If you look into physics, it's the same one.

[8:39] Tonya Pinkins: Now you said you sing it. Does that have something to do with the song lines?

[8:44] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yeah, yeah.

[8:45] Tyson Yunkaporta: And that's, um, these are just ways of trying to understand things.

[8:49] Tyson Yunkaporta: You know, nothing translates well into English.

[8:53] Tyson Yunkaporta: What's so if you have a, if you have a language that has no word for art and no word for culture, because who the hell would be insane enough to separate those things from your actual life and from the land?

[9:08] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, it is hard to talk about things, but song lines, yeah, like, but you do you hybridize thought, you creolize things, and you get some, you know, you use some English words, but you attach different meaning, like I said, belonging before.

[9:23] Tyson Yunkaporta: So song lines that'll do, yeah, to explain that.

[9:27] Tyson Yunkaporta: Uh, but this is talking about like a dynamic map, you know, a map in your inner landscapes that are part of these, you know, these landscapes in the land that you, they're just in you anyway, you know, and you belong to that, those places and those things, and, um, you know, and you belong to this creation event, which is in past, present, future, which is just continuing through that landscape, and you know, all those entities in that landscape have substance and energy that's always going through you, and you sit there and you can, uh, follow those lines, those lines of law, capital L A W, you know, through the landscape, but then also the L O R which is the story that kind of, um, that is one of the threads of that, and you follow them through.

[10:20] Tyson Yunkaporta: Uh, there's some old ladies who are calling it song spirals now, you know.

[10:26] Tyson Yunkaporta: Well, because it's hard to when you say lines, you see a line.

[10:31] Tyson Yunkaporta: It's linear, yeah, and that's not quite it.

[10:35] Tyson Yunkaporta: And then so some people try and think of it as almost a stack as well, you know, um, because there's lots of layers to it, but then that doesn't work either, you know.

[10:44] Tyson Yunkaporta: So there's quite a few.

[10:46] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, yeah, there's a book called Song Spirals that, uh, female knowledge keepers have put out and they started calling it song spirals.

[10:55] Tyson Yunkaporta: But I guess you know, this is how things evolve, you know, with language and with changing environments and cultures, etc.

[11:02] Tonya Pinkins: I think the drawings you had in your book, even though I couldn't, I, I think that they must have been doing something to my brain, because I feel after reading SAND TALK, my brain changed, and you know, the words were the words, but there were those drawings that I, you know I see them, I see them.

[11:21] Tonya Pinkins: I couldn't give you words for them, yeah, but they were communicating to me in some kind of way.

[11:28] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yeah, I mean the words were just the delivery system to sort of make those pictures into a book that people might want to pick up and look at the pictures, uh, basically, but the images are from, um, from elders, old people, but particularly there were six of them from old man Juma Fiji, um, from Northern Territory, uh, Larakea people.

[11:53] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um, and he those symbols are part of a big ritual, ritual magic. Uh that he like nearly 10 years ago now, he gave me um those things and said that I need to make sure as many people in the world see them as possible. Um and basically they're designed to change you at the molecular level. It should come with a warning, you know. Like, like I don't know, there's I don't know about the ethics of that, but I just do what my old people tell me. Um, but basically, you know, anybody who's seeing that and thinking through their own stories and hearing that other story from here, anybody who's looking at that with intent and doing that story work, it will change their DNA. And he sees it as a big ritual magic to bring um what do you call the the uh seven spirit families of humankind back together. The seven spirit families have to come back together.

[12:48] Tonya Pinkins: What are the seven spirit families?

[12:52] Tyson Yunkaporta: Well, um yeah, uh so I I think a lot of that is connected to the idea of the uh seven sisters, you know, the Pleiades constellation. Oh, it's weird because all around the world people call that seven sisters, even though there's more than seven stars in it in that constellation, and it doesn't look like sisters at all. Everyone's got the same story for that. So he he he's he sort of he says that everybody came out from one place, and there were these seven spirit families coming out of that that um you know put people in these seven different um tribes when people went out. There was an impact, like a conflict, and everyone went out from that central point, which is um uh Uluru, you know, air's rock, some people call it that Uluru, the big rock in the center of Australia, that everybody went out from there, and it was these seven spirit families.

[13:44] Tyson Yunkaporta: And I don't know, if you look at the um all the stuff when they're looking at all the different what they're calling species of you know, human beings, like you know, way back they they're talking about you know, Neanderthals and uh, you know, Homo erectus and then there's there's a couple of weird ones they're called like the dun Denisovans and and then they had that little homo fluensist them, little red people, then ones from um you know, they found in Indonesia. Keep talking about Indonesia today. What's that about? But anyway, yeah, the little hob what they call hobbits. So and they they kind of look through all the DNA and they find all of these, you know, all these different families, and I think there's about seven of them. So maybe it's maybe it's about bloodlines too. I don't know. Um he's pretty mysterious about it though, but he reckons it that's got to happen for the big cleanup to start.

[14:41] Tyson Yunkaporta: So the big cleanup is gonna take about a thousand years, and it's like uh there needs to be a fair bit of harmony to be able to do that. So, anyway, that's what those uh those symbols were before were for. It's a big global ritual magic, and it's a call going out to bring the seven spirit families back together, uh, in harmony to um to start the thousand year cleanup. Now that thousand-year thing shows up in a lot of different cultures as well. Hitler won a thousand year rain. That thousand years shows up a lot too.

[15:17] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, yeah, it's um I don't know, must be some kind of um black fella Reich or something. I don't know, but it's um no, I I think it shows up in the maps too when you look at all the metrics of um, you know, so the half-life of all the radiation that's that's being stored uh from the processing of the rare earth metals that make your solar panels and your computer work, you know, that that produces radioactive wastes. You look at how long that's gonna take to just get vaguely under control so it doesn't kill everything. You look at um how long it's gonna take to uh get the old growth forests back again and all of those systems connected. Uh, if you do vaguely try and figure out the metrics of that and stabilizing the climate and the planet it it's a thousand years so yeah not our lifetime huh.

[15:57] Tyson Yunkaporta: No but um but we get to uh make room for the cultures of transition and and most most cultures will be transitional cultures over that time and um yeah is there a uh uh sort of uh entheogen psychedelic practice within the first people of our aboriginals is there any work with roots and herbs or yeah there's heaps what but you don't like uh I I just I keep getting uh blown away by like so many tech bros now they're they're making decisions based on these things it's incredible so the people who are making the AIs that are are going to pretty much dominate and are already dominating our lives um through these algorithms etc that they're all like weekly you know going off on these trips but so in our way you don't have to do that much you and for most people you do it like one time and then that would be so um so I did that oh about nearly 15 years ago and um and I I've still got I've still got at least another 20 years to work with with with what uh with what they gave me there in that place.

[15:57] Tyson Yunkaporta: I've still got I've still got at least 20 years of work to do just on what I what what came to me from that one experience, you know. So I I can't understand all these people who are dropping DMT every five minutes and microdosing just to get through their day and all that sort of thing. It's like well like, whoa, Alex, stop, slow down. You know, yeah, you don't need to keep doing it. Did it work that first time? It's like, okay, well, if it didn't work the first time and all the other times you've done it, you know, if you didn't get enough to work with for at least three decades, then you probably need to just sort your life out first. You know, so here's the thing people are taking it to fix themselves, but it's like, no, you need to come to it the right way.

[18:13] Tyson Yunkaporta: If you're doing that, you need to fix yourself first. Like you better be coming with um with something with a solid foundation, with story with a map. You know, you better be coming with the right questions and the right way of working in the world, or you know, you're just gonna get booted straight back out again. You know, I you ever see young guns back in the day?

[18:38] Tonya Pinkins: No.

[18:39] Tyson Yunkaporta: Ah so it's got um, you know, Emilio Estevez and Kiefer Sutherland, you know. Um anyway, but they're so basically they can't just leave us there. If I saw young guns, what would I know?

[18:53] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, well, you know, I don't know. Do you know Lou Diamond Phillips?

[18:56] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yes, I really know I did a box. Ask him about that scene. Ask him about the um the peyote scene or whatever they were taking. I think it was a cactus. Anyway, it he'll probably he'll I'd love to. You've got to then send me an email and tell me what he said.

[19:14] Tyson Yunkaporta: So straight to meet people like I don't I don't believe Lou Diamond ever did any peyote. Okay, he is about the straightest cat. No, no, no. But the scene, I'd like to hear what he takes from the scene that he did there. Because basically he's the Indian character, and uh they're all on the run and they're at a like cross, they don't know what to do. And so, you know, he's the Indian character who brings the traditional plant medicine, and they all you know, he paints up, they all do a ceremony. Um, but then the settler, you know, characters, you know, they're all just so Kiefer Subulin's just like the the flower, the flower is the butterfly. The butterfly is the flower. They don't know, they just are like he's just going in this weird loop.

And that's where they go. But um, you know, but then the Lou Diamond Phillips, his character is he's like doing all this, you know, ceremony stuff and four directions, and you know, he's on a map, and and he's he's actually communing with people, you know, respectfully and with entities and and uh discerning the direction that they have to travel in and what they have to do next, you know.

[20:28] Tyson Yunkaporta: He's going in with a purpose and a reason and with a roadmap, he knows that world, and the other ones they're just going nuts. Um shooting at an invisible chicken, and uh Emilio Estevez is just sitting there, just big eye, like just staring into space, freaking out. Yeah, and I so I guess they could yeah, they never quite go in, but they skate across the edge of that spirit world, and that was how the internet came into being. Cyberspace, at least, anyway. Uh cyberspace was invented by a bunch of you know, psychedelic hippies, basically, who were like um, you know, experimenting with those plant medicines, and then they had the LSD and then off they went. Um, and they tried to replicate that experience of that spirit world and and sort of tinker a new world of spirit, you know, that they could sort of a new frontier basically to colonize.

[21:25] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um yeah, you should talk to some of these tech bros. It's um it's amazing and terrifying where they're getting a lot of this, you know, uh ideas for what they want to do. But basically, basically, and I've talked to the best of them, like I'm talking about the ones that designed Sophia the robot and all that kind of thing, um, and and and more than that, you know, and they want to um they want to basically, you know, create that world and have it all going in satellites and then upload themselves to live forever in a cosmic consciousness, um, in a tinkered world of spirit. Um and they and they they talk about you know, the people who would stay behind that it would be a bit like us looking at squirrels.

Now we don't have squirrels in Australia, but like they it these are all American people, and they're all like going, yeah, yeah, looking at the humans, us looking down from the satellites and the uh at all the humans, it'd just be like us looking at the squirrels in the park today, like you know, so that just sounds like another growth growth economy where people get to go to psychedelic world, and then there's the people who are left on earth who are somehow funding the ability for these other people to live in these psychedelic satellite worlds.

[22:42] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, because for some reason they don't think about the infrastructure that's needed for that, you know. You know, I mean, all of this runs on rare earth metals, and it's called rare for a reason. You know, it's this insanity of this illusion of infinite growth. That you can have infinite growth from finite resources, it's just insane. It's insane. And the worst thing is that all of the things that they're longing for and trying to achieve technologically, these are things that we could do before anyway.

[23:17] Tyson Yunkaporta: Like what? Well, I mean, the idea of uploading your consciousness, you know, to a tinkered realm of spirit, it's like, well, why would you do all that? You know, when you're, you know, like a significant part of your spirit goes back to a place in the land anyway, you know, and then another part of it goes up to Sky Camp anyway, you know, and all these things are recycled, you know, forever.

[23:49] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um there's a way that's if you want to like, okay, so you know, like, for example, they want to figure out how to implant chips so that you can do mind reading and telepathic communication. You know, that's um, these are things we used to be able to do anyway, uh human beings, you know, prior to domestication. Um, you know, all of these are fortuses that they're looking for, these magical communications and everything, these are things that people used to be able to do uh in other ways, you know. Um I don't know. Well, I feel like a lot of our technology is just externalizing all these things that we are just naturally capable of doing.

[24:33] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yeah, you know what? I think there's a chance though that when um I don't know, people get that chip put in their head that it might reboot something, and then people will realize that they could do it without the chip in the first place they could look at the pictures in your book and get their DNA change from looking at those pictures well that's it yeah it's like this spiritual nanotech from like an old black wizard near Darwin I love how you use the word black and you were talking about the the the people in Russia and they were blacker than you but they were blonde haired and blue eyed so what does black mean to you when you talk about someone who's a black person it's so funny because when we get like people from America like who actually have black skin you know come over here and they hear half of us um you know Aboriginal people in Australia like referring to ourselves as black they get really upset and they're like what you can't say that because you know most of us are just ambiguously non-white it's like we're you know so I mean I get at least once a week uh people look at me go like you're not white what are you what are you oh I'm Aboriginal oh no you're not you're not Aboriginal you can't be aboriginal aboriginal people are black and this happens you know all the time and like I say in the book half of us can't scrape together enough melanin to scare off a taxi at this stage you know because settlers be fucking and you know that's what you get um yeah so we still refer to ourselves we still have this shorthand of black, and some people are taking the C out to distinguish it, so it's just B L A K, you know.

[26:21] Tyson Yunkaporta: So a lot of people are saying that, especially urban indigenous people are using that that spelling now to try and yeah, but we still use that that shorthand because that's what comes into your language because that's what settlers call you. You end up even after the melanin's gone, you're still thinking of yourself in that way when you're speaking that settler language, you know. And it doesn't mean the color. Um it's just, you know, we're blackfellers, we've always been called blackfellas, and but it's really hard for people. So yeah, when I look at these um, you know, these Same women who are like, you know, pale as driven snow, but um like really, really deeply authentically indigenous and still living in this landscape and in this culture.

And I I look at them and I go, Oh my god, they're blacker than me. It's it's a weird, uh confusing black for you is deeply indigenous and rooted in your culture and your land and your your heritage and your ancestry. That's what black is to you.

[27:25] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yeah, that's it. But for for other people, it's it's it's a different experience. It's like brass, I haven't got time to be like grounded in the landscape, but don't tell me the dreaming story. I'm just trying to survive. Every time I walk in a shop, people are following me like you know, that's there's that experience of black as well, you know. And you know, I I just being, you know, ambiguously non-white, I don't have that to the same extent. I've I've only had my house raided by police six times in my life. Oh, only six times. Yeah, which is an incredibly privileged position to be in. I've only been abducted by police without being charged with anything and then dumped out in the middle of nowhere three times. You know, that's that's uh it's a completely different um, yeah, it's a completely different level of experience. But for some people that that happens all the time.

[28:15] Tyson Yunkaporta: You know, um so I mean I've got um I've got two babies at the moment. Um and and they're both um so it's both they're both from you know from me and and my woman, same parents. Um, but one of them came out uh looking like my woman's father who's like blonde and Irish, so he's a real blondie one, and then the other one, she's come out really, really dark. So they're they're full brother and sister, and one of them uh looks one of them's like vanilla and the other one's chocolate, and that's um that's just how it and they're gonna have different experiences um of elements of the world, you know. I want to let anybody who's listening ask a question if there's anybody who wants to ask a question that's here, Marissa or Will or uh Kevin or do you any of you want to ask a question of Tyson while we're here?

[29:13] Unknown speaker: I actually wanted to go ahead.

[29:17] Unknown speaker: Hi, Tyson. Um when you were talking about um when Tanya had asked about racism and you were talking about how it's uh stems uh oh, should I unmute him?

[29:36] Tyson Yunkaporta: We hear you.

[29:38] Unknown speaker: Can you hear me? Yeah, we're gonna be. Can you start that question again? Sorry.

[29:41] Unknown speaker: Of course, of course. I just wanted you to go a little deeper in um uh when when Tanya had asked, well, then how how do we mend or heal or start again and not uh you know pull uproot racism, right? And you were explaining a little bit on on where that's coming from. Can you go a little deeper into possible solutions or how you know we can raise our children to at least if we can't get it out completely, like how we can help mend it?

[30:18] Tyson Yunkaporta: Yeah. Well, look, you know, so you get a rash, um, like definitely put some ointment on on the rash, um, you know, because that'll relieve that symptom for a moment. But then you probably need to um ha have a look at treating the your whole body candedal infection that's happening. Do you know what I mean?

[30:41] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[30:41] Tyson Yunkaporta: So so you you can't just put the ointment on. The the ointment's good because it makes you feel better for a minute, but that rash is just gonna pop up on your ass next. And then you won't be able to sit down for a month, you know. So you need to actually treat your systemic candidal infection. And that's um basically it's it's this uh global economic system uh that is over all of us, and and we do need to get rid of uh growth-based economic system. And I know they're trying to reboot it. I don't know if you've heard about imperative 21. Um what's that? That they actually launched, if you look it up, you'll find all of their um, it's not a secret or anything. They're actually launching a lot of PR around it. Uh the Ford Foundation and a few other sort of oligarchs and technocrats have funded that. Um, and it's this basically they're calling it stakeholder capitalism.

[31:37] Tyson Yunkaporta: It's capitalism 2.0. They're trying to launch like this, you know, this B game uh idea of a different uh brand of capitalism, capitalism with feels. It's like, no, no, we it we we're gonna keep capitalism, right? And and we'll keep all our stuff because that's all they're trying to do now is come up with a way that they can keep their stuff that they've stolen, anyway. Um, yeah, it's basically stakeholder capitalism, which means you know, we're we're gonna have this same capitalist system, but you know, we're gonna be nice to black people, and and we're gonna save the environment, you know, because we're enough is enough, we're wrecking the planet. Come on, come on, people. Let's all let's all love each other, you know.

And I can't see anything different about the way they've got it set up. They still want to have land as capital at the bottom of the pyramid that they can borrow against and borrow against and borrow against into infinity, you know, uh to make a ridiculous pyramid scheme um that will continuously cyclically collapse and destroy half the people, you know, who are at the bottom of it.

[32:47] Tyson Yunkaporta: Um it's just this ratchet that just keeps going, and it gets tighter and tighter and tighter until everybody's stuffed. Um, yeah, I mean that that's the system. You can't treat the rash just with the ointment. You know, you gotta change your diet. Um, you know, and you might need to take something else that's gonna actually kill that that canned eater in your blood. That's it just might have to happen like that. Um, and I guess that's your red pill there. Well, no, actually, for me, the red pill is the fact that we believe in this infinite growth economy. That's the red pill. The red pill is that we've we've been, you know, seduced into to believing that that is even possible. And that we our children want to grow up and be a part of that. And uh that's what we've been red pilled into.

[33:37] Tyson Yunkaporta: So the blue pill is I got this uh matrix. There's so many versions of the red pill. My movie got a whole nother red pill thing. You gotta go into the red pill men and the red pill women. There's like so many different definitions. Yeah. I'm too much of a Lawrence Fishburne fan. I so I see that red pill the other way. I'm so grateful for this time with you. Uh what are you gonna do with the rest of your time here on the planet? Um, you I leave the tools behind for the people who are coming next. Um, and those tools have to be things that'll last. And so and the best tools we can have is good story. They they need good story, right story. They need cautionary tales about what has happened, but then they need good stories as well on top of that, that um allow them to find the right ways to live and to be able to respond and adapt and and continue and uh make the next thing. It's hopefully not a 2.0. It's like a hopefully there's no points and there's no o's at all.

[34:43] Tyson Yunkaporta: Well, thank you. Sam Talk is definitely a good story for that, and I hope that my movie RED PILL is also one of those good stories. I'm so grateful for uh coming and spending this time with me. Um thank you so so much.

[34:54] Unknown speaker: Thank you.

[34:59] Unknown speaker: Don't say no when you meet no. When you mean no.

[35:07] Tonya Pinkins: Hi, I'm Tonya Pinkins, and I would love to hear from you. You can text me at 917-724-8998. Tell me what you're up to, and I'll let you know what I'm up to. Text me 917-724-8998. Let's keep in touch.