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[0:00] Tonya Pinkins: Hi, my name is Tonya Pinkins, and you're listening to You Can't SAY THAT, the podcast Where You Can on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:13] Tonya Pinkins: We gotta say what's really you can tell us real.

[0:20] Tonya Pinkins: Can I stand you?

[0:29] Tonya Pinkins: My guest today, I discovered when I was listening to podcasts, um, their work is very serious, but they bring a lot of light and humor to their podcast, which is called the Queens of Social Work, and I really enjoyed them, and I think you will too.

[0:50] Tonya Pinkins: So join me in welcoming Queen H and Queen P.

[0:54] Tonya Pinkins: And I want to say that this is one of the first times that I've ever done my podcast where we're not looking at each other. We usually use video, but the Queens said that this is an audio experience for them, and so my screen is off too. Welcome, Queen H.

[1:09] Tonya Pinkins: Welcome, Queen P.

[1:11] Queen P: Thank you for having us.

[1:14] Queen H: Thank you.

[1:15] Queen P: Thank you so much for the invitation.

[1:18] Queen H: And thank you for listening.

[1:20] Tonya Pinkins: Oh, yes. So um I was, you know, I think that one of the sort of heroic things that is part of being alive is that um when people find a way to get through difficult things. And I always tell my children: if you have a choice between hard and easy, choose hard because it's gonna prepare you for those times when you don't get to choose.

[1:50] Tonya Pinkins: And most of our lives, we don't get to choose when the hard stuff comes, so we need to prepare ourselves when we do have a choice. Your work is hard. You are both social workers, correct?

[2:02] Queen H: Yes.

[2:04] Tonya Pinkins: And can you each tell me what kind of social work you practice?

[2:11] Queen P: That's a great question. We have run the gamut. If you listen to our show, you'll know that we be in these streets. So we have done health care. We have done foster care. We have done child welfare outside of foster care. We've done uh mental health. Um we've done domestic violence, you know, children's services. We've done so, so much.

[2:32] Queen P: And and you're right, the work is tough for sure. But you have a sense of humor. So I want to keep this uh, I want to, I want people to get a sense of that humor that you're able to find in really tough times. Um, why don't you, Queen P, tell me about a story that really required you to um find all your resources to stay positive in a difficult situation?

[3:04] Queen P: Oh, there have been so many, and some of what has helped us to keep the humor is understanding that we have each other on the other side. Queen H and I have been working together so closely for a while, and so knowing that we can always decompress with each other when things get hot and heavy, we have each other to rely on.

[3:28] Queen P: Um, so that has really helped to um lessen the load of the work. Um, there have been times where um in an emergency room setting, Queen H and I, you know, um, we had a family who came in. There was about four or five small children, and I believe they had been left alone in a particular place, uh, with no guardians, and so the case was called in, and they were brought in by um the police, and it was just, you know, Queen H and I trying to figure out okay, who sees these kids? How many do you take? How many do I take? What is going on? Where are the parents doing the notifications?

[4:04] Queen P: Um, and the condition that these children were in obviously wasn't optimal. And so um, you know, just really having empathy for the parents, empathy for the children, compassion for the situation, because nobody just wants to leave their kids in a situation with other children, right? Something has had to happen before you get to that place. And so H and I have really um had each other's back, each other's side, you know, in terms of knocking it down, prioritizing the members, the patients, um, and getting the work done, you know, all with empathy and compassion and and knowing that everything comes from somewhere.

[4:43] Queen P: So we have to get this done. You know, H, do you remember that case?

[4:48] Queen H: Girl, we done had so many.

[4:51] Queen P: I feel like there's been a few like that. So I'm like, Do you guys have codes with each other? Do you have codes with each other for the kinds of cases? Like you have like your own little language for how you all talk about cases.

[5:04] Queen H: I think um it's just I don't know if it's like anything set. I think we just look at each other and we like alert, alert, alert, alert. We got a crazy one on our hands, and crazy not meaning like mentally ill, like this is just gonna be wild. You know.

[5:25] Tonya Pinkins: And so is it just a coincidence that you two have gotten to work together for so long?

[5:31] Queen P: Um, yes, um, we met each other by chance in in um a healthcare setting and began working together, and then um still while working in healthcare, we decided to start the podcast and really talk about our experiences and what we've seen, and you know, kind of um give voice to um being black women in social work, you know, specifically Afro-Caribbean women, but um being black women in social work because what happens is that uh social work is dominated um by um Caucasian women, which is not a problem, but when you're talking about the most of the people who are being helped or serviced are people of color, that's when it becomes a problem.

[6:28] Tonya Pinkins: Right. So can you tell me some examples of because I that sounds to me like you know, people not having cultural competence? Can you give me, give us some examples of like a time where you as Afro-Caribbean women might come into a case that you know a Caucasian social worker might have pushed it to number 10, and you're like, no, actually, this is like a three. Now that thing over there that you missed, that's a 10. But this here is a three.

[6:53] Queen H: I think it happens a lot. I can even tell you a story recently. Um for it. Yeah, I I had a situation uh with a client who you know is in a healthcare setting for uh a reason. And on unfortunately he almost um um died or perished and but they were able to revive him and um the way his significant other was trying to advocate for him and the conversation around it was she's agitated you know she's upset she's these things and that word really bothered me because had she not been a woman of color, would you say she was agitated or would you say that she was frustrated?

[7:56] Queen H: And so um that was something I had to comment on and and kind of uh re-educate and kind of say because I've seen where um maybe a Caucasian woman may have advocated in the same way and no one took it as that and and the woman was saying the same thing because people were not listening to her, and she became frustrated, and they're saying she's agitated, and agitated in in healthcare is cold word for okay, this person is out of control, may need some kind of other intervention, right? Whether that's means calling a separate team of psychiatrically trained people or calling security, or just cold word for you, you know, she's volatile or he's volatile, and that's not what was happening.

[8:58] Queen P: And can I just add that she could have very well? I mean, if your loved one is in a position that is touch and go, and there's a chance they may not be here in 15 minutes, wouldn't you be upset, worried, comfort, concerned, like just out of control? Like, wouldn't anybody have an emotional reaction to that? What's wrong with us being emotional? Are we not allowed to have emotion?

[9:25] Queen H: And and that is it's a trigger word. It's a uh what is it's a it's like a whistle when you say someone who's agitated? Because you're right, Queen. Yes, dog whistle. Because like Queen H said, you know, the minute you have emotion, you show emotion. It's oh, we might need to use some kind of intervention. You know, she may require or they may require a certain level of care. We may now have to admit this person. It's like, wait, wouldn't anybody be upset? What is what is that? What is that about?

[9:53] Tonya Pinkins: Well, that brings me to a question I have that I don't know. Does this come up in your work? Does anybody ever talk? Do you all talk about this idea that seems to be a new idea in science or psychology or medicine? This epigenetics. Does that ever come up?

[10:09] Queen P: I've not heard of that lately.

[10:13] Queen H: The way described epigenetics, they say that we can genetically pass on trauma responses. So they they say it first came up when they were saying that people who are descendants of Holocaust survivors, they're carrying a post-traumatic stress syndrome from that. And then, you know, reluctantly, people want to give that to you know, black people who've survived in enslavement and Jim Crow and you know, ongoing police violence, but this it's this idea that there's a genetic transference of experiences that people had.

[10:49] Queen H: And I've only heard it used to talk about negative things, but in reading a lot of um histories about enslavement, I feel like that has been passed on to um Caucasian people, this idea that black people aren't supposed to be able to have any feelings about anything. Um, you know, during the time of enslavement, if a man was insulted by another man, he could challenge him to a duel to the death for insulting him. Whereas black people had to take every form of insult, rape, violence, and and had to smile as it was happening. And I often wonder if that sense of um power over black people has carried on epigenetically in Caucasian people.

[11:38] Queen P: So, yes, I I actually have heard of epigenetics. Um recently I went to a training where they were discussing it. Um I think there is some truth to it, right? That that trauma and certain things can be uh passed down genetically. Um it's still also that argument of nature versus nurture, but there's also a component of where you we talk about generational trauma and how that's passed down. So it's it's something similar, but from my understanding, but it is supposed to be this genetic link.

[12:18] Queen P: And I agree that um as black people, we're not supposed to feel, we're not supposed to react when we react, we're aggressive, especially as women, we're aggressive, we're all of these things, whereas other people can react and show emotion, and and it's like, oh poor you, and for us, it's like, oh, you're you're confrontational, you're all of these things, and it's like, well, every day I am fighting with numerous battles, right? Not just the the regular everyday today struggle. I have to deal with my house bills, my work, my my, you know, all the normal struggles, plus the microaggressions that go on at work, right? Um the the uh less than microaggressions, but it's or more than microaggressions in the community or in things that happen, and then you see the news, you see TV, you see all of these things, and showing your people being slaughtered or treated unfairly, and then I'm supposed to be regular and enjoy life and act like things like that don't happen, so it's always a conundrum.

[13:37] Queen P: Um, and so I think for us, because we are in the field of social work where um we're working with marginalized people that look like us, are our I think our thing is how do we support the person in front of us? How do we advocate for um people as a whole in the work that we do daily, and then how do we decompress from that and still enjoy, right? Because, like you said, the work is heavy heavy, life is heavy, and we there has to be um some light in what we do.

[14:23] Tonya Pinkins: Hopefully that answered your question. Where do you get some light that's actually in the work?

[14:31] Queen H: Um, I think uh, and for me, I can answer for me, and I don't know if P wants to share her portion, but there are times where, you know, in just interacting, for instance, with young people, right? Um, even when they could be in a setting, maybe uh seeking uh psychiatric evaluation because they're decompensating or their behaviors um may be out of control, you may be able to have a heart to heart moment with them, you may be able to um have a dance battle or make a joke with them, and it can change the course of their experience in the moment, right? Or lending support to a parent, and you know, the parent is saying, my child is out of control and was throwing something out the window, you could be like, Oh girl, no, we no, he didn't, and they'll bust out laughing where they were crying before, right?

Um, so I think it's in the little um uh moments that we have, and I think you know, for us together, because of the different experiences that we've had, you know, we can relay a story that might have been serious at the time, but we could find the joke in it. Um, where, you know, and it's not laughing at the situation, but it may be laughing like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that. Like, I think I don't know if you've listened to one of our memorable cases episodes where um we recount um maybe, you know, someone um one of our cases or one of our clients being, you know, maybe in in the life, and in the life is maybe human trafficking and me being naive and not knowing what that was at the time because I was so young in the field, and just being flabbergasted by that, like, how did that happen? And not laughing at the situation, but more laughing at the being naive, you know what I mean?

[16:45] Queen H: Yeah, so so there are moments where where you can find light in it, but not laughing at someone's situation because at the end of the day, it's still human suffering.

[16:56] Queen P: Yes, right. Well, tell us uh memorable case. I mean, I have some in my mind, but I want to hear some that I haven't heard.

[17:06] Queen H: It will take us a while to come up. There are so many, and at some point they bleed together, so we really have to think about a memorable case. But I did want to piggyback off what Queen H was saying in terms of finding light and joy in some moments, you know. Um, I started talking about empathy and compassion uh initially, and it's because of that empathy and that connection to human experience that we're able to find joy in in dark moments and otherwise dark moments. Because you know, everyone knows what it feels like to be hurt. Everyone knows what it feels like to be happy, and once you're able to connect, even though your loss may be different than mine, your hurt may be different than mine, that core feeling is still there.

[17:46] Queen P: And I think that if we're able to have compassion for others and empathy for others, that we can connect and find joy in those in the in the darkest moments because we've had to do that. You know, when someone is suffering and someone doesn't have long left, you know, being that that little hope that they've made their peace and they can transition to the other side. Um, you know, just being there for the family, all of those things. So I just wanted to add that piece to uh what Queen H was saying.

[18:12] Queen H: Uh a memorable case that comes to me right now. Hmm. Let's see. I'm thinking of a young girl who um was out with a friend and um cutting, she cut school that day actually. And she was out with a friend, they were at a friend's house, and then um, you know, of course they were hanging out with other teenagers, using substances, all these things were happening, and fortunately for her, she got caught. I think the boys' parents came home and they got caught, and then they had to stop all of the things they were engaging in. But um, I think that for this particular uh member, because she ended up coming into uh an emergency room for uh like to get checked out, etc. I think for her, the saving grace was that she did get caught.

[19:10] Queen H: This is a girl who had already come from a tumultuous situation, and I think that would she had not been stopped in that moment, this could have led to something else. This could have led to more um destruction and disruption in her life. I think sometimes that when you see cycles being created, it's important to interrupt the cycle because you know how this can turn out. You know what this can look like and how bad it can get. And this was one of those particular times where um the intervention may have saved, you know, may have saved her life. So um, that is something that just recently popped into my mind. She didn't have to get away with it and get comfortable with it and go, oh, I can do this and do it again.

[19:49] Queen P: Right. Because she's she would have definitely done it again, and it would have it would have gone in another direction, you know. I'm I'm so grateful for that intervention, you know.

[19:59] Queen H: Now there was a case that that was memorable for me, and I don't even know if it was on the memorable cases because there was a phrase in it that I had never heard of before. So I'm gonna just say the phrase, and then you can tell the story. It was someone came into the office saying, I'm gonna eat your food.

[20:15] Queen P: Oh, that's my case.

[20:19] Queen H: Oh Lord. Um, yes, that was back in my child welfare days, and and it again, that was something I had never heard, but I'm gonna tell you these NYC streets will teach you something. Um, because I had grown up in uh another state, even though I'm originally from New York, and then um I came back to um New York uh for college. And so once I graduated, I started working in child welfare, and I had a case right in in in Bushwick in Brooklyn, and it seemed to be going well, and this parent was gonna get their child back.

[20:59] Queen P: Um, but lo and behold, a conflict emerged with her significant other. They started to tussle in the kitchen, and I was in the house, and I'm like, what is happening? So, and there were other children in the house, and so I had to get those children in a safe place, and then I'm like, what's happening? And they burst out the door. Um, the couple, and they're tussling, and when I realized she had a knife, and she started screaming, I'm gonna eat your food.

[21:31] Queen H: And what eating your food means is I'm gonna cut your face. I'm gonna cut your face so deep that you will not be able to eat your food. And that is uh what they call a buck fifty or uh a cut that's requiring 150 stitches. Um, yeah, that is it's rough, and I can giggle at it now because I'm far away from it, but at the time it was very scary. And the thing that I did that was crazy, and we we laugh about it now, but it was crazy is that when they were tussling over the knife, I joined in to try to get the knife, like the significant other had her hand, I had both of their hands, and I'm like, put it down, you know.

[22:19] Queen P: So I could have been cut, the other person could have been cut, she could have been cut, everybody could have been cut in there, and so it was a crazy situation, but she ended up dropping the knife because her significant other bopped her on the head, um, and she dropped it, and then they scurried off with their friends, and I was just left there flabbergasted. I'm like fresh out of school, so I didn't, I was like, Well, what am I gonna do? Like, what to do? And she and the thing is she had called the police, and the police didn't come, the neighbors was outside watching, like and eating popcorn, like this was a movie and a regular occurrence. And I'm like, what's happening? What is happening in these streets in these Brooklyn streets?

[23:06] Queen H: Um, but it was able to be resolved, and I was able to call um my director for you know, guidance and supervision, and I got the heck out of there, but yeah, each of food.

[23:21] Queen P: Yes. Wow. You never want to hear that.

[23:25] Queen H: So, what is a debrief for you after that's like a violence? That's that's violence for you.

[23:31] Queen P: That violence is, you know, maybe it's not specifically directed at you, but you're there. What is the debrief for you?

[23:38] Queen H: Well, the debrief, I mean, any every social work agency, organization site should do something called supervision. And if you listen to our podcast, we talk about supervision and consultation um in one of the episodes this season, and that is a uh chance for you to talk to your supervisor about any incidents occurring in uh with your cases or your client or your patient, what no matter what setting you're in, um, where you want the case or client or situation to go or move towards, or what you're working on with them.

[24:22] Queen P: Um, also any um transference you may have, right? How you're showing up to the work and how your influence may impact the case, the situation, the growth of the person. And so it can get um, it can get deep. And if you have a good supervisor, it's great. If you don't have a good supervisor, then that's a problem.

[24:45] Queen H: Um, so and I think both for both um Queen P and I, we've had a long uh career spanning, you know, uh 20, 30, maybe 40 years a piece, right? Uh uh for us a piece like 20 each, so maybe collectively 30 to 40 years. And so we've experienced um good supervision, bad supervision, and so that informed us as supervisors and directors and leaders in um in social work settings or healthcare settings, and um and the debrief is essential, and and having a uh debrief with your supervisor or director is important, but also having a debrief um with colleagues is important because it's a whole different dynamic than when you're or meeting with a superior, and you can get um guidance and tips and tricks um for them, and it it really helped me, especially as a young social worker, um, getting and debriefing with um my colleagues who are older than me or more experienced than me to help guide my young energy because I was definitely I'm a I'm a firecracker, I'm a I'm a you know, with we're West Indian, so I was uh a Scotch bonnet pepper, right?

[26:07] Queen P: Back in the day, I was real hot. And so they would really, you know, talk to me about you know patience, and it wouldn't be directed more at the clients, it would be more directed at administration because I'm definitely an advocate, and if I don't see if something is not right, I'm gonna say it. But they would teach me time, place, and really how to advocate in the best way and things to look out for and to read the signs and how to make lemonade out of lemons.

[26:38] Queen H: So what are the signs that they can teach you to read?

[27:00] Queen P: And I think one of the things is um being able to really listen to your gut and what your gut is teaching you about the situation and really to sit and listen to what the person is not saying, not just what they're saying.

[27:17] Queen H: Right. I think that's something that takes time and and patience and wisdom to really cultivate and to see and really to learn boundaries.

[27:27] Queen P: And Queen P is is the queen of boundaries.

[27:30] Queen H: So I'm I'm gonna tell I'm a I'm I'm baiting her in because she knows how to set a good boundary. We all need to learn that because I think that everybody pretty much is instinct injured, just the way they treat us as children. We we are instinct injured.

[27:45] Queen P: So tell us about setting boundaries, Queen P.

[27:49] Queen P: I think one of the main things in setting boundaries for me is that you have to let people know where the buck stops and what will happen when that when they stop there. So for me, a boundary is um, you know, please don't tell me about your personal life at work. I can't stand it. I don't really care. I'm here to do my job and to help the people I'm supposed to help. And so when people start getting into that space with me, you know, I'll let them know, hey, really not interested. Or, you know, um, depending on their presentation, I may just kind of work around them. But also, there are times where I sit people down and have sat people down and say, hey, this is really not appropriate for the workplace.

If we have to have this conversation again, then I'm going to the supervisor. Uh, because this is not, this is impacting our work and it's a distraction, it's inappropriate. You know, I had um a staff who would talk about um he would like ask people if they had children and ask people how many dogs do you have? Do you have dogs?

[28:57] Queen P: Do you like dogs? Are you a dog or cat person? You know, what kind of coffee do you like? You know, just first of all, you're not making my coffee. Second of all, it doesn't matter if I like animals. And third, like, how do you know what someone's dealing with in order to ask them if they have children or not? Like, that's not for here. So um, we had to have conversations, you know, people have to be pulled to the side and let them know, hey, this has to stop. This is not appropriate, and this is why it's not appropriate. And if you do not stop this, then this will be a result of that. Not a threat, but just a consequence. Like, hey, the cause and effect. Things happen when things happen.

[29:32] Queen H: That's heavy duty, Queen P. I mean, like, you know, in the theater, like that's all we do is talk about all our personal life. Okay, but we can't do that with you, right? Okay, okay. No, ma'am. We are here seeing the lives. We are out here saving lives. Okay, okay? We do not want to get distracted with the puppy conversation. Yes, the puppy is cute. Okay, put it away. Put it away. You know, showing a photo. I'm like, listen, you're doing too much. You're doing too much. And I think, you know, the thing to understand about setting boundaries with people at work. I think, you know, uh the great thing about what Queen P is saying is that from the beginning, she's lets them know what's the situation. So people don't get mistaken.

[30:11] Queen H: I think what happens is people get sometimes too friendly at work. Um, and then a conflict happens, and then you have beef at work, and that's not what you you're at work most of the day. So where do you want to have conflict? So I think, you know, you may not want to have strict boundaries, but you have to have some kind of boundaries, right? So for Queen P, it's you call me by my last name, we're not friends. You address me by miss so such and such, and that's what it is, right? Some people are friendly with their first name, and people feel like when they can call you um Tanya or Sue or what they know you and that can get them beside themselves and lead to a conflict.

[30:58] Queen H: So I think we have to be very clear on what is okay and what's not. So you may be okay with the puppy dog talk and stuff like that, and that's fine. Um, but I know exactly what she's referencing. The people were not comfortable with the conversation, and that is why she had to have that conversation. And they but they were not willing to have that conversation with the person, and then there comes lies in the problem. So I think if people begin to be very clear with what they're okay with and they're not, and be fine with saying that, you miss a lot of the conflict. People know how to approach you and how to deal with you, and they can go on, you know, with the regular day, and we don't have to be best friends at work because we can have friends outside, and there may be people who are good good friends.

[31:45] Queen H: Listen, Queen P and I for the life. Other than, but you don't do it at work. No, no, we we were not even friends at work. We were very clear that we were colleagues. Queen P was very clear that we were not friends, we were colleagues, and then it grew into a friendship later. But I also accepted her for who she was, right? I accepted that. So I didn't try to push a friendship, I didn't try to do that. I'm like, this is my colleague, and we laughing joke when we need to, and that's it.

[32:21] Queen P: Wow. And yeah, but I'm good at that. I've been talking about it. I like you, I want to be your friend. I mean, like, how did you know when the boundary of James?

[32:31] Queen H: Well, I began to know we were friends when she began to talk to me about certain things that did not have to do with work. And then I said, Okay, we're friends, and I said, Oh, okay, that's fine. Now, I don't mistake it as we're best friends, we're close friends, we are friends, and we're friendly, and I'm good with that. But she knows I love her.

[32:57] Queen P: You got me out here sounding like I am the wicked witch of the West.

[33:01] Queen H: No, you're not wicked witch of the uh the West. No, no, no, no, no, no. I what I want to be very clear on the fact that you protect your space, yes, and you are not for the foolishness, and you don't enter into friendships lightly.

[33:16] Queen P: For sure, and you don't call someone a friend just to call them a friend because there's a lot of people out here. Oh, that's my friend. That's not your friend, that's your acquaintance. You know that person, but that's not your friend. And and see, the thing is, I can say that I'm Queen P's friend because Queen P know that if she called me and she needs anything, I am there for real.

[33:36] Queen H: You're gonna roll up for sure. And and and vice versa. Yes. Right? Yes. So that's and that's okay. Now, later on, we may be look, we may be able to become sisters later, but I buy my time. I'm a waiter out.

[33:56] Queen P: Lord, you know, protecting your peace is so so important and underrated. You know, when you look at things on social media, you know, when you see things on social media, people out here suffering because they didn't have boundaries. This one left them, that one left them, they left with this one, they got violated by this one, this one happened, this thing. You know, it's always something, and so you know, sometimes just like Queen H said, tuning into your intuition. What is your body telling you? Where do you feel that? Is it your head? Is it your throat? Is it your back? Is it your stomach? You know, anxiety is connected to the stomach. Like, what are you feeling? And where are you feeling it? Tune into yourself because everybody ain't for you, and you ain't for everybody, and that is okay, but you can't continue to be putting yourself in situations that are gonna hurt you in the end. You gotta see the long game.

[34:51] Queen H: You know, yes, I give you a prime example. No, uh, not not meaning to cut you off queen. There was a guy that I work with a long time ago, and I'm very intuitive. Uh, listen, I'm a Scorpio, so I listen, I'm telling my business here. So listen, we are intuitive, we know what's going on, we feel it. We feel it, but I didn't know how to hone that energy. As I've gotten older, I listen, I get it. I listened to it. But whenever I met this guy, as soon as I saw him, he didn't even say hi. He made every hair on my body stand up. They stood up on end. And I said, something, something's not right with him. So he spoke to me. I said hello, but I would watch him and watch his interactions, right? The key is to be quiet and watch people.

Right? You have to be quiet. You can't be the center of attention and watch people. You have to sometimes be quiet and keep your eyes open. And I watched how he moved, and I said, Oh no, he's not the one for me. So he would speak to me, and I don't, I don't, I don't uh say you got to do it this way. I've learned since I've been since I've gotten older that I can still say hello to people I don't like, but I didn't say hello to him at all. I'd walk right by him, and he was upset I wouldn't speak to him. Later on, it came out that he was taking advantage of clients, right? And having inappropriate sexual relationships with them.

[36:26] Queen P: Right? Oh, I remember, yes.

[36:28] Queen H: Oh, sorry. I remember that. So let me tell you, I believe I always trust myself. And my gut tells me something, and it tells me something's not right here. I I'm it's there, yeah. I'm gonna believe it. I'm gonna take it. And so you mix that gut intuition with the theory and the and the um and the skills that you're taught in social work school, and then based on your experience in the field, and it helps you really kind of assess a situation, right? You're not always right, and I'm not saying that you need to take that judgment and that's it. You can still work through that and learn more, but a lot of times that first gut reaction, you can't you your body is telling you something.

[37:22] Queen P: Now tell me a little bit more about the gut with the anxiety, because that that sounds like me, and I didn't know it. Tell me about the gut and anxiety.

[37:31] Queen H: Go ahead, H. Okay, so um it is it's been found, or as you know, when when someone is anxious, you you feel it in your stomach, right? Think about any time that you've been anxious, your stomach is a notch. You may have to use the bathroom, right? You might get gassy. There's a lot of things that are connected between anxiety and your stomach. So there's something called the vagus nerve, and that vagus nerve is connected to the organs in your body to down the down the center, and so when I don't know if you've heard where there's this big push, and it's been for a while, but they found that you know, guided meditation, breath work helps calm that nerve so that it quiets it down because they they've linked people with anxiety to IBS, Crohn's disease, other stomach or bowel issues, because anxiety activates all that nerve in your body and gets you going, you have to think too, when you're anxious, right?

That is a fear response, right? Fight, flight, or freeze, right? We're not that fear activates adrenaline, and you got to get out of there somehow. So if that's coursing through your body, that that causes an irritation in your stomach. There's nowhere to put it, right? Adrenaline is used for a purpose.

[39:13] Queen P: Wow. Wow. Okay.

[39:14] Queen H: So y'all gave me a little free therapy tonight. Um, wow.

[39:22] Tonya Pinkins: Okay, well, we're kind of wrapping it up, and I want to give you all the last story to tell before we uh we close out. What's the last uh memorable story you all want to tell before we uh wrap it up?

[39:35] Queen H: Well, I was trying to decide if I was gonna tell this story because it's a little bit you're gonna tell it. You're gonna tell it. Come on there. It's a little salacious, but um, there's there was a patient who had been missing, and he he had um some mental health issues, and um he winded up in the uh um emergency room, but initially at first no one knew he was missing. And you know, as uh social workers in emergency room, we have a lot of work to do. Sometimes we're finding missing persons, finding their persons, uh, interfacing with the police, doing Google search it and finding people going through belongings and figuring out people who people are. You know, Queen P and I were known for that.

We were good at that at the last facility that we um worked at, and we made sure to teach um our staff how to do it because we're out here, we have a job to do, we have to find people's family. But long story short, um, I had um already contacted um the authorities so that they can see if there's any missing person report out on um on him. In the meantime, he was in emergency room, and he was a nice guy, but you can clearly see that he had mental health issues. Um, there was some cognitive delays as well. And I had gone to another part of the ER and come back up, and I see that the person that was assigned to watching him was standing outside the curtain, had the curtain drawn. And I said, Why is the curtain drawn?

And she said, Well, he's you know um doing something. I said, Doing what? She said, He's he's playing with himself. I said, girl, no, that's not allowed in the wide open ER. I pulled back that car, that curtain. I said, Hey, let it go. And he started smiling and laughing and let it go.

[41:32] Queen P: Okay, you were setting a boundary right there, too. You gotta set the boundary. There's no you cannot masturbate in the ER. You cannot. That's a boundary right there. A big boundary. And he was smiling too, because he knew. He knows he wasn't supposed to do that, but he he saw that the girl wasn't gonna say anything to him, was timid, so he was just having his fun, fun time. And I said, Hey, hey, hey, let it let that go. Let it go.

[42:02] Tonya Pinkins: That is a perfect way to end. And I'm telling everybody, you all should go listen to the Queens of Social Work because they are doing important work in the world, and they found a way to do it joyfully and to find the humor in their life, which is not always their work is stressful, very, very stressful. But they are doing God's work. And I'm so grateful to you all for uh taking the time to come and talk with us here at the Broadway Podcast Network. Thank you so much for having us. We are always surprised when people are listening. We're like, we get so giddy. We're like, wow, people are listening to us.

[42:41] Tonya Pinkins: Yes, I am listening to you. And so thank you again for coming through. You are listening to Tonya Pinkins, and this is You Can't SAY THAT on the Broadway Podcast Network. Thanks for listening to You Can't SAY THAT, the show where you can. I'm Tonya Pinkins, and You Can't SAY THAT is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. Produced by Dori Berinstein and Alan Seales with music by Cat Dail. If you like what you hear, don't forget to subscribe and rate this podcast highly wherever you stream.