This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tonya Pinkins: Hi, this is Tonya Pinkins, and you're listening to my podcast, You Can't SAY THAT, the podcast where you can on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:12] Tonya Pinkins: We gotta say one rules for you. Can we tell us real? Can I understand you? My guest today, I met her because I was shadowing her as a director on an episode of Madam Secretary. She has done a phenomenal thing to me, and I want to ask her about it in that she is a successful female director television film across the world and pretty any any country there is. And she's directed like 30 films. She's a writer, she's a producer. Most recently she's represented with The Witcher and the new series. So let's welcome Charlotte Brändström.

[0:59] Charlotte Brändström: Hi, Tonya. It's great to see you.

[1:02] Tonya Pinkins: So what are you doing now? I looked online, but I saw that you're in New York shooting something.

[1:06] Charlotte Brändström: What?

[1:07] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, I'm in New York shooting a series for Apple called Ray James or Invasion.

[1:13] Charlotte Brändström: And it's about, I mean, I'm not even sure. What are you allowed to say that you can't say that?

[1:18] Tonya Pinkins: Okay, no, no, NDAs. You can't tell us anything.

[1:20] Charlotte Brändström: By the time this comes out, it'll be on the air.

[1:22] Tonya Pinkins: Exactly.

[1:23] Charlotte Brändström: But it's about the, like, an invasion panic. I mean, sort of reminiscent of what's happening today.

[1:30] Tonya Pinkins: Right, like what's happening right now.

[1:31] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, yeah, what's happening right now, and people's reaction when they are on their invasion and relationships and how they unfold and how they change and how they evolve when you're in danger, when you're in war, when you're in different situations.

[1:47] Tonya Pinkins: That's interesting. I'm just I'm reading a book right now called Bluebirds, which is by a Serbian woman, talking about you know her years of traveling from country to country as a quote, refugee and the way people thought of her. Like when she got to her place in Britain, you know, they were like thinking they were giving her a good life, and she had was coming from a very middle-class life, and this was like a shock to her to be living like a refugee because that was so different from the way she came. But you know, people thought they were giving her a better life suddenly.

[2:21] Charlotte Brändström: Um, it's a weird thing what people we are shooting. I can say it now, it's not gonna be on the air for a while.

[2:28] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, this is not gonna come on the air for about four months.

[2:30] Charlotte Brändström: Okay, so we actually shooting by in big department stores next week, and we had transformed those department stores, I won't say which ones yet, but into refugee camps.

[2:41] Tonya Pinkins: Oh wow.

[2:42] Charlotte Brändström: So actually it is about America, a whole all of America becoming refugees.

[2:47] Tonya Pinkins: Woo!

[2:50] Charlotte Brändström: Okay, okay, I kind of can feel that.

[2:53] Tonya Pinkins: All right, now I know you're a mom. How have you been a director and a mom?

[2:58] Charlotte Brändström: Well, it was it you have to cope with being guilty or feeling guilty all the time. And, uh, but otherwise, uh, I think that it was much harder was my son was younger and now he's 25, and now he's really proud of what everything I've done. So it was worth it. But, uh, it was very tough up to the moment when I found the perfect thing to do with him is that when I came home after shooting, I we had Skype and or FaceTime. I would turn that on and leave it on all evening. So he could go, he was at home, I was in my hotel room, but we were on all the time. So he didn't have, you know, the kids don't like to be have to be on the phone all the time.

[3:39] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[3:39] Charlotte Brändström: So he knew I was there. If he had a question about time, about the bash, about anything. So we were still connecting.

[3:45] Tonya Pinkins: Okay.

[3:47] Charlotte Brändström: Wow, I love that idea. And that was actually very helpful. And did you have a partner in this relationship?

[3:53] Charlotte Brändström: Like was with back then, yeah, I was with his father, but we were all different living in different countries. I mean, I was obviously shooting all over the world. My son was in Paris because he was staying in Paris then. And my ex-husband was in LA. So we would be traveling back and forth between each other. I was working more in Paris. Obviously, I lived still lived in LA, but most of my work was in Paris back then.

[4:14] Tonya Pinkins: Wow.

[4:14] Charlotte Brändström: So, uh, and my son would like coming to visit, and he and his father would come home if I was gone for a really long time. He actually took care of him.

[4:24] Tonya Pinkins: Now, did you do AFI before you had your child or after?

[4:28] Charlotte Brändström: I did AFI long before.

[4:29] Tonya Pinkins: Long before. So you did you come out of AFI and get into directing because I was like looking at the stuff.

[4:34] Charlotte Brändström: I sort of didn't come out of AFI coming into directing. You were told that you're like a chosen one when you come out of the AFI. My first job after AFI was actually cleaning motorhomes for the actors. And, uh, learned I knew everything about the motorhomes. Oh, my first job was dumping the toilets and learning. I was in Death Valley sharing a hotel room with another PA, and we were PAs, and I was holding up traffic in the desert and taking care of cleaning up motorhomes and making sure the dogs had air conditioning when they were inside.

[5:04] Charlotte Brändström: The director's dog. Very glamorous. So that was very glamorous, and, uh, and I really worked myself up from there. I started off like that. That led to an apprentice editing job, and then I became an assistant editor and editor. I worked in editing for several years, and that was amazing actually. I think I learned the most about directing in the cutting room, probably. I mean, I had a it was interesting to go to AFI. You learn about you, it's really it was a really good school. And after that, uh, it was really learning as you work, right?

[5:35] Tonya Pinkins: So what did you learn in the edit room about directing?

[5:37] Charlotte Brändström: That changed your directing. You learn first how to shoot economically. So you know which shots you need and which shots you don't need, which can help when you have a time pressure. And then it's actually the last rewrite of the film. You really see what works dramatically or not. So, uh, it's so interesting. You take a scene away and you change or you change the order of shots, you find the right rhythm in comedy, and it becomes funny. Well, if the rhythm is off, you lose all the comic relief. And it's really, I mean, uh, to me I can't advise more for any director to come from editing.

[6:19] Tonya Pinkins: Now, you know, the people who are listening cannot see you, but you're a really beautiful woman, blonde, blue-eyed, she's very fit. So, you know, we're in the Me Too generation. You must have some stories coming up. I'm sure you were offered many things for being a beautiful woman.

[6:35] Charlotte Brändström: Yes, my first but my worst job.

[6:37] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah.

[6:38] Charlotte Brändström: No, but what I was offered, I mean, uh, you know, back then you would send around resumes, so you obviously didn't get a job because I look at you.

[6:44] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[6:45] Charlotte Brändström: And I never saw you and they were like, oh I never really considered myself that beautiful anyway. But I had some horrible, I have some, I mean, I had my first story when I, uh, one of my first jobs was actually a job for a network. And, uh, I actually I even if I try to remember, I'd have forgotten the producer's name. But he would have me come in. I was obviously answering phones and taking care of his mail, and he would come have me constantly come into his office to clean up like stuff on his desk and try to look it over and bend over and everything. And he would like spill coffee on his desk and showing it in front instead of obviously wiping it up himself.

[7:25] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[7:25] Charlotte Brändström: He was showing he was pointing and saying, Can you please there's a drop of coffee there? Can you please clean up? I didn't last very long, I left actually. Back then I was anyway. I was first of all, I was married, but that's nothing to do with it. But yeah, you're feisty. But I said, like, this is like just total shit. So I actually, I mean, I never really felt pressured in anything, but I never gave in on anything either.

[7:53] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, I don't think you don't fight strike me as a mark. You hold your own in the men's club on the set, you know, you you sing like you hold your own.

[8:01] Charlotte Brändström: Well, I always tried because obviously I started off at the time when it wasn't so easy for women. Why now it actually as a female director, it's easier to get a job because you think it's a little bit easier, I think, because some people want to hire women. I mean, when they do like I know, for instance, for Amazon, they they say that trying they that they're gonna be able to do it. They say they're trying.

[8:22] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, they say they're trying to have 50% of women and 50 men, they're trying.

[8:26] Charlotte Brändström: I mean, and I think it's getting a little bit easier. Also, I have much more experience today, so, uh, so that's obviously also helpful. I'm not starting off today, but back then as a woman, it wasn't simple. I actually that's also why I went back to France to start directing. I felt it was easier to get going there after AFI and after I had work in the States.

[8:50] Tonya Pinkins: So, uh, so, uh, what were we saying?

[8:54] Charlotte Brändström: As but as a woman, um you always feel as a woman that you need to pay your dues more than a man. I always feel like I always, in order to feel confident in what I'm doing, I probably have about three times more film than any man that gets hired for the same position.

[9:15] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah.

[9:16] Charlotte Brändström: And but it, I guess all this experience has helped. So I'm working a lot right now.

[9:20] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[9:20] Charlotte Brändström: And I'm working on big shows. But, uh, and I know a lot and I find it easier, much easier now. But, uh, when I started off, if what I tried to do is not to think about the fact that they were hiring me because I because I was a woman or that that I had a hard time getting that job because I was a woman.

[9:42] Tonya Pinkins: Got it.

[9:43] Charlotte Brändström: I just tried to just move forward and wanted to be considered as a director.

[9:47] Tonya Pinkins: Now, aesthetically, you have, uh, you've been in lots of countries shooting. Is there a different aesthetic when you're shooting an American story versus you're shooting a story that's a European story?

[9:59] Charlotte Brändström: No, I think the script drives everything. Obviously, yeah, I really think so. I think that maybe, you know, Swedish scripts are very character-driven, they're very dark. They should shot mostly in cold climates, and you have very little money. So you obviously have to shoot in a smart way. You can't do many takes, you can't do all the coverage you want. So there, I mean, uh, my editing experience, it becomes very helpful there.

[10:29] Tonya Pinkins: Okay.

[10:30] Charlotte Brändström: When you're shooting a film in France, you have more of a crew, a bigger crew. You have actors that are, uh, I mean, sometimes feel that they don't prepare us, they actually don't prepare as much as the, as the, uh, if I may say as the, uh, Swedish actor or as the American actress. I feel like here they come very well prepared. And they feel like should they need to be more spontaneous. Doesn't mean that they're not good, but it's just a different way of shooting.

[11:01] Tonya Pinkins: That's their style.

[11:02] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, yeah, it's a style.

[11:03] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, it's more it's supposed to be more creative style.

[11:05] Charlotte Brändström: Uh huh. But it's all different. You just have to come in as a director to you have to adapt to whatever's happening around you. But I feel that my style, whether I'm shooting in France or in Sweden or in America, it remains very much the same.

[11:19] Tonya Pinkins: And what is your style?

[11:20] Charlotte Brändström: Uh, my style, first of all, I read the script. I feel I'm feel that the performance is very important. I try always to pay attention to details to the small story and the big story. I find what the most important for me to film when I'm directing a movie is actually the actor's moment of decision more than the action. What is happening before he's knocking at the door? What is happening before somebody comes in? And I think that that gives life and, uh, it adds something to everything you do. And you can help anybody's performance that way also, I think.

[12:01] Tonya Pinkins: Wow.

[12:02] Charlotte Brändström: But by finding but helping them to feel real in the situation. If I'm filming you, Tonya, opening the door, I would say, why don't you just come out of the shower with a towel in your hand and you could actually drying your hair as you open the door? That way I feel like you there is a life. If you're just opening the door in the normal, you're just opening a door, right?

[12:23] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[12:23] Charlotte Brändström: But you can make more out of it.

[12:24] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[12:25] Charlotte Brändström: And that's something I believe in very much. Now, when I last saw you, we were in Budapest eating some delicious Italian food.

[12:31] Tonya Pinkins: Well, I was doing The Witcher.

[12:32] Charlotte Brändström: Every night. After that, I went back to the restaurant every night.

[12:36] Charlotte Brändström: You were shooting The Witcher.

[12:37] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah.

[12:38] Charlotte Brändström: You were coming in when they had just changed the style. So how do you come into a new show that changes the style and make a find a style?

[12:47] Charlotte Brändström: Uh well, I had a wonderful crew, a wonderful DP that I work with, uh Gavin Struthers, a British DP, what actually and we try to tell the story. I mean, it's it's very hard. You I work very much with instinct and what I feel in my stomach and with emotion. When I watch the monitor, I know if a scene is working or not. And most of important most of all, I I concentrate on the characters. And then with the help of the DP, we tried obviously to make it also as visually uh magical and spectacular as possible.

[13:21] Tonya Pinkins: What what can you do to make something visually magical and spectacular?

[13:24] Charlotte Brändström: Choose try to fight to shoot the scenes in backlit, so at the right time of the day, first of all, and then pay a lot of attention to uh location scouting to find the right locations and fight for those so you you find something that is visually interesting. And what's wonderful in The Witcher is that you don't need to stick to reality, you can actually, it's it's magic, it's fantasy. So you can actually choose choose uh I mean you can create your own world. And it it was wonderful to work on that series because every episode was sort of independent, they were all based on a short story. So you obviously, there was a red, I mean, you have to there was a continuity with the uh characters, but each story was independent. They had their own location, they had their own style, they had their own visual visual style.

[14:15] Charlotte Brändström: So I hope I'm not talking too fast.

[14:18] Tonya Pinkins: I understand.

[14:19] Charlotte Brändström: You understand me?

[14:20] Tonya Pinkins: Okay.

[14:21] Charlotte Brändström: But just to say a parenthesis, once I did an interview for Entertainment Tonight when I was at AFI, and I listened to that interview in the evening on TV, and I could not understand a word I said. So I'm just thinking.

[14:35] Tonya Pinkins: No, I understand you. I love The Outsider. I just finished it and I was looking and I saw that you directed an episode of The Outsider.

[14:42] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, that was very interesting. I learned so much on that show.

[14:45] Tonya Pinkins: Was that when I saw you? You had just met with Justin Bateman. Was that what the project you were thinking about with him?

[14:51] Charlotte Brändström: No, I'm I we had a Skype interview for actually Ozark.

[14:56] Tonya Pinkins: Oh, got it.

[14:56] Charlotte Brändström: And I didn't get Ozark, but I got the Outsider instead.

[14:59] Tonya Pinkins: I like that show.

[15:00] Charlotte Brändström: And I like The Outsider was like both actually.

[15:03] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, I like them both too.

[15:04] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, yeah. They're very good shows. He's very good. Uh that was amazing to work for because Justin just says, just do your directing work. Don't bother about doing too much coverage. We like no coverage or as little as coverage as possible. Just do it where he feels important to you. And and he gives you a lot of freedom. And then he uh the and I worked with a very interesting camera operator who had who was very inventive at all. And he he was I mean, he they had obviously developed a certain style before I arrived. We were shooting they were shooting some scenes at 32 frames per second to add more tension to the scenes. They were using a diopter, so there was a very shallow depth of field.

They had people walk in and out of focus. So that was something they liked. And within that, those parameters, I tried obviously to create my own style and do my own episode. But it was a very interesting collaboration with the camera operator because whenever I wanted to do something, he pushed whatever I wanted to do even further.

[16:19] Charlotte Brändström: And uh I got a lot of mileage out of that show because it for me uh I it developed. I mean, I you couldn't you feel like you continue learning constantly, even if you I've actually we were saying 30. I've actually shot almost 50 TV movies by now.

[16:35] Tonya Pinkins: Wow.

[16:35] Charlotte Brändström: I'm up to over 50, I think.

[16:37] Tonya Pinkins: Okay.

[16:38] Charlotte Brändström: And you continue learning constantly when you work with intelligent men and smart people and who also know something about filmmaking, obviously.

[16:45] Tonya Pinkins: Tell people what coverage is because coverage is I mean, obviously, we shoot the scene, and it's coverage is uh you you you you had a scene and it's the um the close-ups you need. It's a different the different angles you need in order to tell the scene. Now you were saying you like decisions. If they're not doing coverage, how are you seeing the decision if you're not doing a lot of coverage?

[17:06] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, I have to have coverage. I mean, you have to have coverage for certain important moment, but you can also decide where you don't need it.

[17:12] Tonya Pinkins: Okay.

[17:12] Charlotte Brändström: Look at the film like uh Sam Mendes 1917. He has very little coverage in that he had no coverage, and it still is very strong dramatically because he rehearsed it obviously like uh like theater. And you and I have seen some of his plays, even together, I think.

[17:29] Tonya Pinkins: Oh, yeah.

[17:29] Charlotte Brändström: But but um I think it's amazing, and there he did the coverage with the camera. So people so like uh like Kirasawa, where people are moving into camera, they're moving in, the camera's moving, and they're moving into mediums and closes and out and stuff like that. Like somebody else who did that very well with Bergman when he did uh the silence, for instance. There is a story of a little boy in the train. He he moves in and out of frame and he moves closer to camera when he's supposed to be tighter, when it's supposed to be dramatically intense. Because obviously you always say, and it's this is a truth to that, that the tighter a shot, the the more a close up, the uh the the stronger the intent, the stronger the dramatic um I mean the the str it's the stronger it is dramatically.

[18:14] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[18:15] Charlotte Brändström: Right. Well, you know, after my three years of shadowing, you were maybe let me see. In my shadowing, I don't know, you weren't my l the last person I shouted, you were the next to the last person shadowed in my own.

[18:25] Tonya Pinkins: Who did you shadow after me?

[18:26] Charlotte Brändström: Uh Michael Satra Zemus, who's the producing director of He Came from Walking Dead, and he's the producing director on Fear of the Walking Dead. And at the end of those three years, I was like, ah, it doesn't seem like I'm gonna get hired. So I I d hired myself and directed my first feature film, which is was kind of fantastic. I kind of loved it. I was like, okay, yeah, I could do this TV thing.

[18:47] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, yeah.

[18:48] Charlotte Brändström: Of course you can.

[18:49] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, yeah. I know you can.

[18:50] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, I I felt great about it, and I was like, okay, I'm just gonna have to keep giving myself these jobs because the stats on women are just not very good.

[18:58] Tonya Pinkins: They're getting better though.

[18:59] Charlotte Brändström: I mean, they are getting better, but they were so bad.

[19:03] Tonya Pinkins: They were so it's true.

[19:04] Charlotte Brändström: They were so bad because when you consider the amount of women you see in film school, you sort of wonder what happened to them afterwards.

[19:10] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[19:11] Charlotte Brändström: Obviously, having kids, that's it's not easy, but so you have to deal with that, but that's not the only reason.

[19:15] Tonya Pinkins: Right, that's not the reason. And also, uh, you know, in the in the in the silence, there were a lot of women in film.

[19:21] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah.

[19:21] Charlotte Brändström: In the silence. They were writers, they were directors, they were doing everything, and then suddenly they still happened. The paychecks got really good, and they were like, these paychecks should go to men.

[19:29] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah, yeah. No, it's true.

[19:30] Charlotte Brändström: Right. And it's really, I mean, and I think women, it's so important today that women are supportive of each other and help each other because there is still a lot of way, I mean, long way to go, I think.

[19:41] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah.

[19:41] Charlotte Brändström: But I feel that people are wanting to be a higher. I mean, it's rare that shows only have men.

[19:50] Tonya Pinkins: But they're always more men than women.

[19:52] Charlotte Brändström: True.

[19:53] Tonya Pinkins: Right. But uh there are a few shows still that have uh that yeah, only uh male directors.

[19:59] Charlotte Brändström: I was actually yeah. Do you get to watch any shows so that you know, oh, that's a show I want to work for, and you can tell your representatives, or are you just so busy that it's like someone has to call you and say this is what we want you for, and then you gotta catch up on that to know the style of the show.

[20:15] Charlotte Brändström: No, I I mean I used to just take what was coming at some point. Now I watch shows, but also it's hard to watch shows and say that's what I want to do because I'm trying to do a lot of first seasons and new shows now. So it is to look out for what's gonna happen, to know what's gonna happen.

[20:31] Tonya Pinkins: How do you do that?

[20:32] Charlotte Brändström: Well, you by reading, by by speaking to representatives, by you seeing the in the press, by by you know what's in development. So you want to be in first season. It's very interesting to be in first season because that's when you set the style. Even if you don't get to do the uh if you don't do the pilot necessarily, if you do a few episodes, if you're in the first season, everybody's still searching off about searching what the show is supposed to look like. So there is a lot of room still to be creative.

[20:59] Tonya Pinkins: Have you done a pilot?

[21:00] Charlotte Brändström: No, I was I was just gonna get to that.

[21:02] Tonya Pinkins: Okay.

[21:02] Charlotte Brändström: At this point, I feel like uh, I mean, I'm I'm doing this show after that. I'm uh I'm doing another one for which I really signed an NDA that I can't talk about.

[21:11] Tonya Pinkins: Got it, but you're gonna you get to set the style, you're gonna get to do the pilot of that.

[21:15] Charlotte Brändström: No, I'm not gonna do the pilot of that. But after that, I I really want to get into pilots. There's absolutely no reason because a lot of people with much a lot of men actually with much less experience than me are doing a lot of pilots, and I think I'm more than ready to do more pilots in the States. I've done a lot of pilots in Europe.

[21:30] Tonya Pinkins: Okay, but I've done pilots in France. I mean, it's not the same job.

[21:35] Charlotte Brändström: It's the same job. You just need to uh get it here because here the budgets are bigger. It's it's always the same thing. They uh but now I think there are women uh who are getting uh into big budget features, big budget TV, uh limited, great limited series. My my my goal is to get on to a limited series when I do every episode.

[21:57] Tonya Pinkins: Oh, you want to do everything.

[21:58] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, I've done it twice in Europe.

[22:00] Tonya Pinkins: Okay, I've done eight episodes twice on on the first season.

[22:05] Charlotte Brändström: So, but you just said there's no difference, but here we already got a difference in Europe. They give you the whole series here. That's not happening.

[22:11] Tonya Pinkins: That's a big difference.

[22:12] Charlotte Brändström: It happens a bit, I think, to some people, but um, I mean, it's it happened to Steven Soderberg when he did the Nick. It's it's happened to David Fincher, it's happened to a few guys, guys, a few big guys male feature directors, and happen hasn't happened some women also. I think so.

[22:31] Tonya Pinkins: Um, I can't think of a uh no, Reed Moreno didn't even direct all of the uh handmaid's tale.

[22:38] Charlotte Brändström: No, I don't think so.

[22:39] Tonya Pinkins: She didn't do the pilot though.

[22:40] Charlotte Brändström: She didn't do the pilot?

[22:41] Tonya Pinkins: She didn't do the pilot.

[22:42] Charlotte Brändström: I think she did the pilot.

[22:43] Tonya Pinkins: I think she did the pilot, but she created it, but she didn't direct the whole season, the whole first season.

[22:47] Charlotte Brändström: But I still feel like more and more women are creating pilots, are creating series, and it's happening. Right now, I couldn't even get take a pilot because I don't have time. I I have committed myself. Through the whole year.

[22:57] Tonya Pinkins: Through the whole year, yes.

[22:59] Charlotte Brändström: Up to Christmas.

[23:00] Tonya Pinkins: And how many weeks do you have? I mean that this is on the series you're here in New York with.

[23:04] Charlotte Brändström: New York, I'm being I was supposed to fit. I mean, it we it's shooting a bit longer because we have the problem. Also, a lot of scheduled changes because of the virus.

[23:11] Tonya Pinkins: Right.

[23:12] Charlotte Brändström: So we were supposed to shoot in Japan and can't go there.

[23:16] Tonya Pinkins: Oh no.

[23:17] Charlotte Brändström: So we we they uh I mean I think we could go there, but I mean are you worried about the virus?

[23:23] Tonya Pinkins: I'm not really worried about it. Because I feel I'm lucky enough to be in a good health, and if I got it, it would be like I would have the flu.

[23:31] Charlotte Brändström: And you would recover.

[23:32] Tonya Pinkins: I would recover. I think that in France, 98% of the people who had it had recovered.

[23:37] Charlotte Brändström: That's the stats on recovery of the year.

[23:39] Tonya Pinkins: It is like in Franza.

[23:40] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, yeah. And but it is very dangerous for people in their 80s. So I think it to me the most important today would be to really find I mean protect the old people. And there's a lot of old white guys on film sets.

[23:53] Tonya Pinkins: Yeah.

[23:55] Charlotte Brändström: But you can't, you can't like wipe out a whole generation and make room for a lot of people.

[24:07] Tonya Pinkins: We grew.

[24:11] Charlotte Brändström: Yeah, yeah, I said it.

[24:13] Tonya Pinkins: I did say that.

[24:15] Charlotte Brändström: Okay, so you can't go to Japan.

[24:18] Charlotte Brändström: Um so England has replaced Japan right now.

[24:22] Tonya Pinkins: You're gonna turn England into Japan?

[24:23] Charlotte Brändström: No, yeah, we are no, we're not turning into Japan, but we are finding sets. Uh we have to shoot, they have we have to get some establishings from Japan. We have to shoot our scenes somewhere else.

[24:33] Tonya Pinkins: So tell me this difference for you as an artist between you know, you're shooting your European low budget and you got your American high budget. Give me an example of what's gonna make the difference.

[24:45] Charlotte Brändström: I mean, I think sometimes when you don't have a budget, you gotta be really creative about it.

[24:48] Tonya Pinkins: Yes, quick.

[24:54] Charlotte Brändström: That was part one of my conversation with writer, producer, director, Charlotte Brandstrom.

[25:01] Tonya Pinkins: How come we say you will when you will know?