This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:05] Sean Chandler: Hi everyone, I'm your host, Sean Chandler, and you're listening to Your Program Is Your Ticket. The discussion of smaller theater works and the people and organizations that make it happen.

[0:14] Sean Chandler: Yes, your program is your ticket is back after a bit of a hiatus. Around September of last year, my husband David and I made the decision to move from New York City back to our home state of California. Well, we miss New York and all that it has to offer. We have commitments from our dear ones in California and wanted to be here to be present for those.

[0:33] Sean Chandler: My guest today is James Bell, business manager for the Pump House Theatre, located in Auckland, New Zealand. The Pump House operates as a program venue for hire in the performing arts. It presents a diverse range of theater from plays, musicals, dance, traditional outdoor summer Shakespeare, stand-up comedy and concerts, to psychic mediums, book launches, poetry, and play readings. It's a lot. Wow. Pretty cool.

[0:57] Sean Chandler: James is a part of my new Theater Is for the World series, where I'm extending my Theater Is for Everyone message to various theaters on our big blue marble. Give them a chance to be heard, talk about their missions, work selections, production processes, triumphs, challenges, and misconceptions. Keep in mind that our interviews are recorded at different times to optimize schedules just in case the audio sounds different. Also, we'll be picking up signals from around the world just in case you hear a glitch or two. I'm super excited, so let's bring them on.

[1:30] Sean Chandler: Hi, James, and welcome to your program is your ticket.

[1:34] James Bell: Thank you.

[1:35] Sean Chandler: Thanks for having me.

[1:36] James Bell: Oh, thank you for being on the show. Thank you for being the inaugural show of my new series, Theater is for the World, which is elaborating on my Theatre Is for Everyone sort of message that I have, and it's great to have the first episode be from New Zealand.

[1:59] James Bell: Yeah. Super exciting. Um, let's start by having you introduce yourself to our listeners. Tell us about your role with the Pump House Theatre.

[2:10] James Bell: Uh yeah, so my name's James Bell. I'm the business manager at the Pump House Theatre. That's my sort of official title. Um, I've been there for eight and a half years, becoming up to nine years in May, um, which followed on from a I I've worked in the IT industry, I've worked for the government, and somehow ended up working for a theater, um, which surprisingly uses all the skills I've learned and all the other jobs that I've done as well. Um, yeah, I and outside of work, I have a background producing and directing theatre. Um, again, I started doing technical things of lighting and sound as a teenager, um, and then sort of moved into the production side of things, producing, being on theater committees and then more recently directing, which is something I really enjoy.

[3:13] Sean Chandler: Very cool. Do you do any acting as well?

[3:17] James Bell: Uh, I'm really good at spotting what my talents are, and being on stage and remembering lines is definitely not one of my talents. Uh, I did appear once in a show. Um, the director decided that as I was the stage manager, I could pop in, say one line and take something off stage. I'm not sure that I ever got the line correct. It was just one line. Um, but I think, yeah, when I stand on stage and the lights are sort of freeze up, so no, I am definitely a behind the scenes in the shadows sort of person.

[3:48] Sean Chandler: Do you remember the line?

[3:52] James Bell: Nope.

[3:54] James Bell: So I mean, to be fair, it was a person wrapped up in a package, sort of like a dead body wrapped up in a package. So it was quite a lot to deal with, and I had to wheel them off and you know not drop them and you know.

[4:08] Sean Chandler: Oh yeah.

[4:10] James Bell: Well, I think I'm a writer as well, and I've taken a couple of acting classes, and it's good to sort of have that experience to know what you're asking actors to do. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this is crazy. I mean, these actors up on the stage are like they're having to remember lines and blocking and props, and I mean there's just so much that goes into the periphery of all of it, and it all sort of has to alchemize, if that's a word. It's like an alchemy kind of thing and come together in unison. Um, so it's probably good to do a little bit of it.

[4:54] James Bell: Yeah, it's good to have a go.

[4:54] Sean Chandler: Absolutely. Um, okay, please tell us about the Pump House Theatre. What is the mission of the company or the overall goal?

[5:06] James Bell: So the Pump House Theatre is really we're a performing arts venue. Um, so I can go back into some history of the Pump House, that might be helpful.

[5:16] Sean Chandler: Sure.

[5:17] James Bell: Um, so we're based on a lake, it's Lake Papuki, which is a freshwater lake in Auckland here. It was formed many thousands of years ago by two volcanic eruptions. So it's actually the crater of a volcano. It's filled with water and it's very nice. Back in the early 1900s, there was no fresh water source for the local residents. And so they built this water pumping station, steam-powered water pumping station on the banks of the lake, in what is now the Pump House Theatre. So the building that we are in is sort of over 100 and must be getting out to 130 years old now, which for context in New Zealand is quite old. And you know, we think that 100 years old is old.

[6:15] James Bell: So this building sort of, you know, eventually in the sort of 20s, the water pumping station was decommissioned and moved away. Uh, and so the building sort of sat derelict for a while and it was going to be demolished and the land sold off. But some local arts enthusiasts, including a woman who'd been over to the United States and seen other conversions of old buildings into art centers, had this idea to convert the Pump House into an art centre. And so they lobbied the local council, the local government, and said, you know, let us look after it. We'll do it up and run it as an art center, just don't demolish it. And so that was eventually what was decided, and that was in 1969.

[7:08] James Bell: Um, and so this group basically fundraised with bake sales and had weekend working bees and you know everything that needed to be done, they did it. And in 1977, the Pump House opened as a community arts venue for the performing arts. Uh, and at that time it had a small art gallery as well. Uh, and really the focus of at the time was to provide a local space in the community for anyone who wanted to perform. You didn't have to be a professional or anything like that, or belong to a particular company. If you had a show you wanted to do, you could come along to the Pump House and put it on. And that's really the philosophy that we continue with today.

[7:56] James Bell: Um, we try and program a little bit and maybe we can talk about that later on. But we basically if we've got space in the calendar, and if you've got the funding to cover the venue rental costs, we'll try and find you a time when you can come and perform your show, and that could be anything from Shakespeare, which is what we've got starting at the moment, right through to slam poetry. Um, we tend to attract sort of smaller acoustic musician type things, you know, improv stand-up comedy in Mandarin, anything you can think of we'll take. Um, and one of my, you know, every so often we'll get one of our more senior patrons will say, oh, that was awful, I'm never coming back if you're going to show things like that. And what I, you know, great pride in me have to say, 'Great, come back next week,' we'll have something entirely different.

[8:57] James Bell: Um, and I think that's really the focus. So we're just trying to continue, and we're again really proud of the fact that we opened our doors in May 1977, and we've worked continuously and been open continuously through then despite all sorts of funding challenges and well, you know, the C thing that happened over the last two years, which we try not to talk about anymore. Um, you know, we've still managed to survive and thrive.

[9:25] Sean Chandler: That's excellent. And okay, I have a comment and then I have a really small question for you. Uh, first of all, I'm looking at your website, and this property is beautiful. I mean, there's this gorgeous shot of the body of water, and there's like a pier, and these two very, very pristine, just beautifully taking care of buildings. I can't believe that anybody would want to I don't know, get rid of it. I mean, it's, you know, kudos, yeah. Kudos to the lady who came out and said, hey, look, let's, you know, let's not do that. Let's take a breath and see if we can't find another use for these buildings. It's just such a beautiful structure and property.

[10:19] Sean Chandler: Now, my question is this: what is a working bee?

[10:25] James Bell: Oh, right. Um, yeah, I thought this might be a problem. I've had some American friends, and sometimes I say things and they look at me like I'm mad. Um, what's a, uh, basically everyone comes together over the weekend and they work on a maintenance project like it might be, you know, replacing the roof or something like that. Um, yeah, I don't know what, uh, maybe there isn't, uh, it's a, yeah, sort of a community construction, community sort of clean and tidy up that kind of thing.

[11:02] Sean Chandler: You know, we could use a few working bees out here in America, that's for sure.

[11:08] James Bell: And I believe for the most part that we have them here and there. I mean my husband, who's been involved in smaller theaters, has participated in those, or there's more of like a delegation of jobs that are ongoing, things like that.

[11:24] Sean Chandler: Yeah, somebody who's working in the box office or cleaning the restrooms or something like that. That's how it goes. I mean, you really have to sort of share, um, I don't want to say the burden, but share the responsibility of taking care of things. I mean, you don't just walk into a theater and put on costumes and everything is wonderful. There's so much peripheral stuff that goes on around all of that.

[11:49] Sean Chandler: And I don't think, you know, the average theatergoer maybe probably doesn't necessarily know. They just come in, they sit down, they see actors on stage, and everything has just happened magically to them. And that's sort of the way it should be in a way.

[12:07] James Bell: Yeah, I think one of the nice things about the Pump House is we regularly get people who sort of pop in and they've got visitors over from wherever and they're showing them around, and these might be people who are now in their 40s and 50s who as children with their parents used to come to those working bees and do that work. And so, and or you know, they'll come with their eight-year-old mum and oh well I remember chipping the concrete off those bricks and I painted those beams, and there's a real sense of ownership and pride in those people who helped to save and restore the building and get it up and running. And there's certainly no shortage of those people who keep an eye on things and are definitely not afraid to pop in and tell us quite robustly if they think we're doing the right thing or not.

[12:59] James Bell: But I think having that level of engagement and that affection within the community for something they've created is really good and it does help us, you know, keep on track and make sure that we're accommodating as many aspects of the community as we can.

[13:14] Sean Chandler: That's great.

[13:15] James Bell: So it feels like the community has almost a sense of ownership over the theatre company.

[13:22] James Bell: Very much so. The key way that we operate is we rent the space to people to come and perform. So we don't produce the shows ourselves; our role is to host other producers who come in and use the space. But it's quite interesting, and talking to all of those producers and the teams that they bring in, they all feel like it's their home and it's a space they own, for want of a better word, or it's their home base. We're based, and everyone feels that way. And it's quite interesting to have the sort of stream of 40 or 50 hires who come through each year, all telling me that this feels like their home and this is, you know, a space which is for them. So that's really good, again, to have that level of affection and engagement from the people who are able to use the space to present their stories and their shows.

[14:23] Sean Chandler: It sounds like, in addition to utilizing the space, they probably attend a lot of the productions and other events that you have going on at the theater as well, right?

[14:35] James Bell: Yeah, we do get a big crossover. It's interesting; we have a nice sort of mix of producers who come through and present things. We'll have people who are, you know, we've got a particular group, Timbray Theatre Company, who concentrate on shows for children and sort of trying to inspire the next generation of theater lovers. And then very often they'll come along with their grandparents because the grandparents have been to see a show by Tadpole Productions, who tend to focus on a bit more of that sort of traditional community theater, sort of the farce or all that kind of thing. And so there's the grandparents who love theater; they bring the grandkids to inspire them, and so there's a real little—it really helps to build those family connections and just that love of theatre throughout the age groups as well.

[15:29] Sean Chandler: That's great. That really espouses the concept of theater being for everyone.

[15:36] James Bell: When I say that, I mean like everyone to see it, to love it, to perform it, to sponsor it, to all aspects, and to have a community around you that really just partakes in all of those different ways and helps. It is so inspiring to hear that. Um, let's talk about your projects, the projects that come to you. Is there a selection process? Do you vet the pieces that people are proposing for the various stages and performance areas, or is it pretty much like if you bring it and you've got the money, then we will go ahead and do it?

[16:25] James Bell: Yeah, so it is closer to if you want to do it, we'll find a way. We certainly don't vet people. In fact, we've had people come perform at our space where other venues have said, "I'll go and do it somewhere else, and if we like it, then you can come here and do it," which, you know, I think is a bit rude. But to some extent, I think it's a success for us that if people come and put something on at the PumpHouse and they grow an audience and they get popular or too big for our space—because we've only got 190 seats, which is fairly small compared to some theaters—and they're able to grow and progress, that's a success for us. I mean, the people who perhaps wouldn't have had that opportunity to grow otherwise. So we tend to work on a—well, historically, we worked on a first-come, first-served basis. So you ring up and you're looking for some dates; if those dates are free in the calendar, they're all yours.

[17:28] James Bell: What we found with COVID was we've had a lot of cancellations, and what we did for our producers during COVID, when we were in lockdown, is we allowed people to transfer their dates to another time in the year. So we didn't keep their deposits or anything like that; we just booked them in at a later date. But of course, that meant that not only did we fill up the calendar with new people wanting to book, but also with people who had booked already for the last couple of years and sort of really struggled. And we're still, at the end of last year, still presenting. In fact, we've got something coming up at the end of February this year, which I think is the third try they've had at it—might even be the fourth by the time they got their funding sorted out and actually during the show because of these delays with COVID.

And so we've tried to move our process to a little bit more of expressions of interest, and then once we've got everyone's interest as to who wants to do a show, we'll then try and fit as many people in as we can. And that's allowed us to be a little bit more—I wouldn't say selective, but to try and prioritize some underrepresented groups or art forms that are perhaps not as represented in our program as they might otherwise be, who may miss out just because they're not organized enough or because they have to wait for funding to come through before they can ring and book a venue compared to other groups who maybe have a steady source of funding so they can get in early. So yeah, we're hoping that the expression of interest process is going to level the playing field a little bit and allow us to continue to expand the diversity of what we present.

[19:24] Sean Chandler: That's excellent. Yeah, a lot of people sort of had a backlog of commitments that they either, if it's their own company, that they still need to get up on stage, or if it's, you know, other promises to other people, and lots of things had to be shifted around for COVID. It was something that the theater world, I don't think, was ready for at all.

[19:49] James Bell: It was, you know, it was just horrible. I have a whole series called "Back to Places" about interviewing a lot of different theaters from America, from London, from Ireland, from Tel Aviv. I mean, just all over the world and how they handled it. If anybody wants to go back and listen to that, it's actually won four awards. So all right, enough of bragging about myself. Um, now I see that you have three different theaters. You have the Genevieve, the Croft—am I saying that right? Or B Croft?

[20:28] James Bell: We tend to emphasize the B's, or B Croft.

[20:32] Sean Chandler: B Croft, okay, and auditorium. You have the Cole Bunker Studio, and you also have an outdoor amphitheater. Um, I want to ask a question, and then I would really like for you to talk a little bit about each one. But my question is, since we're on COVID—and then I promise no more, I promise no more. I know it's like the C word you said that cannot speak its name. Um, with your outdoor amphitheater, did that become a little more popular as COVID regulations started easing up a little bit? I know a lot of people went outdoors, and a lot of people were really lucky that they had this kind of a venue that they could switch their productions to. Now, granted, there were still masking and things like that, but it was supposedly a lot safer. Did that become a big asset during that time?

[21:23] James Bell: Um, I wouldn't—it did get more use, yes. It wasn't hugely more popular only because it's uncovered, so there's an amount of risk with the weather. That really only gets heavily used at the sort of in our summer. So now we're just at the moment preparing for Auckland Shakespeare in the Park season, so that's gonna open on Saturday, our time.

[21:50] Sean Chandler: Excellent.

[21:51] James Bell: Uh, tomorrow. Um, but yes, we did see more people interested in using it. We could space people out. I think that once we spaced out all the seats, we could fit probably 250 people in there. But because of the capacity limits that the government had put in place with all the spacing, we could only really fit the 100 max. But it did offer an opportunity to sort of say, "Well, actually, we do have a space you can come and do things, and we can be outdoors and safer." That's a big plus. A lot of people just went to, like in America, a lot of people just went to regular parks, and, you know, people really had to get creative.

[22:39] Sean Chandler: Um, I know that you have a program called the Monologue Collab program. Um, now did—I got the hint or the gist of it that that actually went virtual as a program for people to sort of keep up their skills and sort of stay in the headspace of theater. Talk about that.

[23:06] James Bell: Yeah, so well, that actually came out of the first lockdown that our country went into. Because we're not a producing theater, we don't have actors who are attached to us; we couldn't move our production online or anything like that. So we thought we'd try this; we'd reach out to the community, see if people wanted to collaborate on something, and unsurprisingly, it was very popular. So, you know, everyone involved is an actor or somehow associated with the PumpHouse community. It may be that they're actors or that their partners are actors, and they wanted to do something. And it was a way that we could encourage people to stay creative while they were, you know, perhaps by themselves or living with housemates rather than coming out to the theater and performing.

Everyone was assigned like a line or a couple of lines from a monologue, and they filmed it, and we collated them together and published them. It was really popular, so that's something we've done well through both lockdowns in New Zealand now. We've done that, and it's always interesting to see how creative people are and what we guess because we don't give them any direction or anything like that.

[24:32] James Bell: So you interpret—you know, we tend to choose monologues that are fairly well known and that people will be familiar with. We say you choose how you present it, and we mash it all together and create something great. So that's really interesting.

[24:48] Sean Chandler: So it's not just like an actor going on camera and doing like a monologue start to finish. You sort of chop up the monologues, and so like eight, ten actors will be doing one specific monologue.

[25:06] James Bell: Yeah, I think each one, off the top of my head, I think we had at least ten actors involved in each one.

[25:13] James Bell: Um they're still on our website, they're all hosted on YouTube, so you can go watch them all and see all the sort of crazy creative things people came up with.

[25:21] Sean Chandler: Wow.

[25:22] Sean Chandler: Okay, I've never heard of it be of like a virtual project being presented like that.

[25:28] James Bell: I mean, I've had there have been monologue series, there have been plays and readings and stuff on virtual, particularly COVID-based programs, but I've never heard of it like that. That's really cool. I yeah I love that. Who thought of that? Is that you?

[25:46] James Bell: Um I don't think I can claim credit for it. I think our marketing and box office manager Meg Andrews and our community engagement person Mags Delaney both came up with ways of moving our what we do online and engaging people while they were only able to engage online. So our creator talks program, which we can talk about later as well, also moved online with Mags doing the interviews in a Zoom session, much like we are today, rather than in person. And so between the two of them, they sort of worked on Meg sort of took the lead on the monologues. Um she's an actor and director as well as working for us, and Mags took the lead on the sort of the creative talks and seminar side of things. Um and so yeah, that was one of the things we sort of brainstormed as a team about how we can stay engaged and connected and remind people that the PumpHouse is still there even if you can't come and see us.

[26:46] Sean Chandler: Now, is this the same Meg Andrews who was an intern and wrote a really lovely sort of letter on your website? Am I getting that right?

[27:00] James Bell: Uh so I think Meg posted that. So the most recent intern with Lena from Germany, she wrote a nice farewell letter, but I think Meg posted that. But yes, so Meg's worked for us for a couple of years now.

[27:13] Sean Chandler: Oh wow.

[27:14] James Bell: It looks after our box office and the promotion that we do to assist our producers in getting the word out about their shows.

[27:22] Sean Chandler: Wow, so it's the same person.

[27:24] James Bell: Yeah. So we one of the things that I think is beneficial for us is we most of the people who work for us are creative in some way as well. Um they might be directors, producers, stage managers, actors, writers, whatever they have that interest in theatre and passion for theatre, and we kind of we can offer them employment, you know, a day job at a theater, which is always a great thing. Um that day job might not be terribly creative, but it allows them to kind of feed off everyone's energy and involvement and be inspired, and then you know, when we need to be creative, then we've got some people with those skills on the team and we can sit down and say, right, this is the challenge. How can we overcome it? And you know, we pull together all those great skills that creative people have that, you know, are hard to define on a resume, but you know, you can sit down and give theater people a problem and they'll solve it.

[28:30] Sean Chandler: Oh absolutely. And I think when there is a problem, I've said this many times, when there's a problem or what feels like an impossibility presented to theater people is when they become their most like genius creative, in my opinion. They have to think I hate this phrase because it's overused, but they have to think out of the box. Um and they have to get really super creative, and all of a sudden you're watching this production and there's this like genius idea to get a point across on stage, and it's I think that that's what I found, and that's what I found in all the theater that a lot of the theater that I've seen. Um would you agree with that?

[29:14] James Bell: Absolutely. I I think it's we see it every day because every new producer comes with their own challenges, or they, you know, they turn up and just and and figure out we don't have as much space as we thought, and so they have to kind of re-imagine their set um or lighting or whatever um, you know, we are it's one of the big things we do is to help people problem solve around what they want to do versus what they can do within the space and the budget that they've got.

[29:43] Sean Chandler: Wow, that's that's great. And I love that there are sort of um that you just mentioned like almost like gateway positions into the creative teams. You know, show up and let's, you know, you might have to sell tickets with this particular thing, but let's sort of get the vibe and see if we're vibing together. And if you this is something that's that's of interest to you. It reminds me of um Ruth Gordon. Uh she had this quote from I don't know, I I read it on IMDb, I'm sure, but she basically said that she went to a theater company and uh she said, I just stayed there and I did anything. I did anything and I did everything. Obviously, this is not verbatim, and I figured if I stayed there long enough, they'd eventually give me a part, and they did it.

[30:32] James Bell: Yeah. I mean, that's sort of what we did with our intern Lena. So she was with us in from October to Christmas in 2022. And we didn't really have a role for her. We've had interns come before, but we said, Well, you can be reception, you can answer the phones, or you can work in the box office or whatever. We didn't really have a role for Lena. So what we said to her was, look, come along, we will find you things to do, we'll roster you into box office when we need you. We will offer you to the various producers coming in if they need a spare pair of hands or someone to take photos or something to help out backstage or whatever. Um and or if you know, we've got flyers and you know, someone wants us to take flyers out around the local shops to put in windows, you know.

If as things come in, we'll offer them to you. If you're available and interested, you can do them. And I think that worked really well. She sort of really threw herself into everything. Um which I mean it sort of staggers me. She came from a very small town in Bavaria in Germany, and no theater, about 300 people living there, and she flew to the other side of the world, and within a couple of weeks she's out walking through the streets going in and asking, hey, can we put a poster after the show in your window? Um I think that's I think that's incredibly brave and but again it's it's theater, right? I mean that's you just gotta jump in and give it a go. And you know, I dare say she enjoys some things and not others. Um, but I think she had a really good time experiencing what it can be to work in a theater.

[32:13] Sean Chandler: That's that's outstanding. And oftentimes when people are in those positions, it's like they find their tribe, they find that they find that this group of people who are interested in theater, just like them, and it can be it can just open up so much in your brain, honestly. Because I come from a family that you know I I love theater, obviously, and I have a family who likes theater, they see what I produce sometimes, and um, but they have none of them are actually well, one of them is, but are really like theater people, if you will, you know, per se. So you get somebody who is from a family like that who goes into a theater, always had it in them, and you just it's great. It's it's miraculous, in my opinion. So kudos to you guys for doing that, and yeah, and helping that along. That's that's amazing.

[33:17] James Bell: Um tell us about the various production processes that you experience because it seems like so varied with everything that you have going on at the facility.

[33:29] James Bell: Yeah, so we have a variety of producer and production companies that come through. Some of them are basic well, they are professional theatre companies. They had they're well funded, they're you know, employ people on a full-time or contract basis to do the various production roles, you know, stage management and marketing and production management and so on. Um for them our role is to make sure everything works and is clean and tidy and basically get out of their way and let them do their thing and sort of work in a way that where we're supporting them. I mean very often I describe our role as the host or the venue management as being a bit like Batman. We sort of hide in the shadows keeping an eye on things.

If there's a crisis or a problem, we appear, we solve it, and then we just you know slink back into the shadows again until the next time. Um so that's very much what we do with the professional companies and and some of the more community theater-based companies where you know everyone's a volunteer and no one's getting paid for their efforts, but their experience, say they've done this for 20, 30, 40 years and they know what they're doing, and again, we can just leave them to it. Then there are others who um they've got an idea. Uh there's there's something that they want to try. They don't really know what it means to put on a show, but they've got a script or they've got a plan or uh or something like that.

And that's where we get a little bit more sort of as a coach or a mentor, and whether that's with marketing and promotion or ticketing or health and safety or or any or you know, technical side of things and that's where we'll try and put in some assistance around that to get them over the line sometimes it's to get them to the point where we actually go on stage. Sometimes it's just helping around the specific so you know I've got a show I know how to put on a show I really don't know how to promote it. So can we have some help with that? And so we've got some resources and some expertise within our staff around how to promote a show or how to write a health and safety plan or something like that and we can kind of pick and and match where we need to do that.

And everyone's sort of on that spectrum really from one end to the other some of our hirers they're just there for one day they might be a musician or or something like that or a stand-up comedian and really we just put on staff where we have you know a venue supervisor who you know looks after health and safety and make sure everyone's okay. We have our rushers we have our um technical staff who come in and the person stands on stage does their thing and we make sure it just goes smoothly. So that's sort of probably the most hands-on approach that we take right here's the key here's an alarm code we've checked your health and safety plan off you go let us know if there are any problems.

[36:29] Sean Chandler: Wow impressive that's it's amazing what being around for a hundred years plus will do for your systems, huh?

[36:38] James Bell: Yeah.

[36:40] James Bell: It helps.

[36:41] Sean Chandler: Yeah it does doesn't it though it's that time to develop.

[36:44] James Bell: No that's that's great. And it's so nice that you have, you know, you can offer up those various resources. I remember when David and I put our play at the flash on for a reading, we went to a facility like yours and we had to talk to management about finding us a stage manager and you know, a lighting person and all that just for like a sort of a showcase performance. And without those resources, we would have been lost.

[37:16] James Bell: So as somebody who does occasionally produce their own theater, that is such a huge plus. You know, I probably don't have to tell you about that, but I'm just saying it it's it's so helpful. I it gives us some flexibility around how much it costs people to put something on as well. So we we operate a process whereby if you've you can bring in your own team to do the ushering and the sort of the front of house. We'll provide you with the health and safety briefing and you know the instructions on where all the you know torches are and everything.

[37:51] James Bell: But you can bring in your own people to do that if you want to. Or we will bring in our staff, but you will need to pay for our staff's time. And so we offer sort of a base level, and then if you want extra support on top of that in terms of a technical person or a stage manager, we can arrange it, but it increases the price. Or you can bring in your own person and then you don't have to pay us, you can pay them or maybe they'll volunteer or whatever. Um we just keep an eye on things to make sure the people are operating safely, that they're following the rules. Um health and safety is um a big thing. Um for so New Zealand went through a big health and safety review um a few years ago now, and it it's made it slightly more challenging in sort of areas where there are volunteers involved that are sort of covered by the health and safety legislation, but also sort of not.

Um and so we we took the view that we would, you know, regardless of whether you're a volunteer or a paid person, if you fall off our catwalk, it's going to hurt. So everyone should follow the same health and safety rules regardless of their employment status.

[39:00] James Bell: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's even gotten more more so heightened uh, you know, with COVID-19. I said I wasn't gonna say it again, and I'm sorry, I promise that's the last time that you bring it up. Honestly, it's just it's just part of uh work now because even even the shows that are on now, the there's still the issue. So in New Zealand, if you contract COVID-19, you have to um isolate at home for seven days. Um so if you're the lead in a play, or or not even the lead in a play, um, because again, uh a lot of our volunteer um productions that you know they don't have under studies or or anything like that. Um, so that can put the play in jeopardy. Um and the government has put in place uh some funding support.

So if the lead in your well, you have to apply before the event, um, but if the lead of your play is is unable to perform because of COVID, you can claim some um assistance to pay for costs that you can't recover, but it's still a big risk and and you know, still a concern for a lot. So I think it's gonna be with us for a bit a bit longer.

[40:09] James Bell: Um we we're still encouraging people to to wear masks. Um they're not legally required to, but it's uh, you know, we sit people in what is a relatively small room for three hours at a time, um, and it, you know, the audience can be 50% over 65. Um, you know, maybe it's an idea to wear a mask if you think that helps. But uh yeah, it's it's been interesting to navigate and uh you know I don't see it. It's just gonna be part of life for at least another couple of years, I think, for us anyway.

[40:44] James Bell: I think. Um, you know, other businesses uh there's probably less so, but for what we do, yeah. Yeah, there's an intimacy too to theater that um I think really lends itself to being a lot more cautious. Um just because people are you know dressing you and in your face and doing your makeup and and kissing and and all of that. So it's uh I think one of the shows I'm involved with at the moment with you know, just simple things like sharing makeup is something that you know we can't really do that anymore.

[41:21] James Bell: Everyone needs their own little sort of you know thing of foundation. We can't really share makeup brushes or makeup or anything like that, which probably never should have done in the first place if we're being honest. It's all all a bit weird, but um it it helps I suppose to put in place those processes to make things slightly more um hygienic.

[41:40] Sean Chandler: Wow, that's I've I had not heard of the the the makeup aspect. That's a really really interesting thing. And I I'd never again I've never heard that with all the people that I've interviewed. That's that's actually and that's ups. I mean you you say it, and it's like, well, well, yeah, of course, but it's the those little details that I'm glad you're sharing because you know, maybe somebody doesn't realize that and they're listening to this show and they're thinking, you know, maybe we should um be like New Zealand and not share makeup.

[42:13] Sean Chandler: Which again, I think it's probably a good rule of thumb anyway, but I don't want to. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just uh just a community theater thing, but uh yeah, it just you know, someone would turn up with the tub of makeup that belongs to the theater, and if you need something, you take it, but who knows these days.

[42:32] James Bell: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. But yeah. Now, I I feel like I'm not sure if these are like peripheral programs that you offer or other people have come in and they're utilizing um your space. Um, but can you tell us about your creative talks and your drama improvisation workshop? Are those yours or is somebody bringing that in and how how do those work?

[42:58] James Bell: Well, it it it's a combination. So we have a uh community engagement role within our organization, a really important part. Uh and that's um well, I was gonna say that's led by Mags Delandy Moffat. Uh she's the only person in the in the department, so I guess uh she does lead it. But um, and her job really is to create opportunities for people to engage and take part in the arts beyond sitting in a dark theater watching other people do things on stage.

[43:26] James Bell: Um so one of our core parts of that is our creative talks program, which is uh essentially it's free talks for audiences to come and hear from creative people about what a creative life is like. Uh sometimes that takes the form of an interview and Mags will interview the person and you know, ask some questions. Um sometimes they'll have a presentation or they'll be, you know, uh a talker to start with, and they'll they'll talk. But generally they talk through their creative life and how that works, how they approach creativity.

[43:57] James Bell: Um we've had you know fairly notable actors and authors um within New Zealand anyway, uh, come and talk. We've had uh uh intimacy coordinators, directors, um, you know, you you name it really. Um and the the great thing is because we have a variety of speakers, we have a variety of of uh you know things that come out of that.

[44:25] James Bell: Um and then of course it'd be because it's about engagement, it it's at the end of the talk, um we invite the audience to ask questions and it becomes a bit more of a conversation, and we sort of will have a cup of tea and a biscuit afterwards so you can sort of continue to chat. Um and again it's an opportunity to come and do something at the theatre when we'd otherwise be dark, so maybe on a Monday night typically, um, and sort of it just get a bit of a more of an insight into how theatre works, or it doesn't even have to be theatre. Many of our speakers are sort of uh more broadly artistic.

[45:01] James Bell: Um so that's something that we do ourselves, and and sort of we're we're just putting together the program for this year now. Um the improv classes are a great example of the uh sort of the community aspect of it. So we were approached by um uh improv tutor who's visiting New Zealand from the UK. Um I I think he's staying with family, but he sort of saw the theatre, liked what we did and said, look, I'm here for a few weeks. If you'd like me to do a couple of classes, I you know, I don't need payment or anything, but if you've got some people who'd like to learn a bit about improv, happy to do a couple of classes.

[45:40] James Bell: So we've um very, very um eagerly taken up his offer uh and so we've got a couple of uh we've got improv for beginners and then another one the f following week for people who've had a little bit of improv experience including people who come to the book with the beginners class to move on to the next step um the other thing which we've just finished is our Shakespeare in a week program uh which is again something that Mags runs so so Mags has a background as a teacher and is an absolute Shakespeare fanatic so she takes um young people between the ages of 12 and 18 uh on a Monday they are introduced to a Shakespeare play and on Friday night they present that Shakespeare play to their friends and family in our theatre um and in the in the meantime they've done all the blocking they've learned their lines they've done all the blocking they've created some costumes some props maybe some scenery um and they they do a uh a show at the end of it and that's that's really popular as well and that's what we've what we're seeing now is people who have done Mags's Shakespeare in a week program are now moving on to our Auckland Shakespeare and a park in the park shows and they're auditioning for that and sort of um you know involved in the the the adult Shakespeare if you like um so there's a pathway for for the Shakespeare lovers to um to get involved and do a bit more and again that's that's always been a popular one and uh it's just it's amazing what they come up with at the end of a week.

[47:20] Sean Chandler: A week to do a Shakespeare play?

[47:23] James Bell: Yeah.

[47:24] Sean Chandler: Wow.

[47:26] Sean Chandler: I in acting class I had to do a Shakespeare monologue one time. It took me three weeks just to memorize a monologue. I it's it's um that's that's I would hope that people who show up for that sort of have a bit of like at least a leadership person who has like an understanding of what the the play is about, or is it or do do they go in and it's like okay, you're doing this play. Are they assigned the plays, or do they bring the plays to the program that they want to do?

[48:01] James Bell: So Magsa will usually decide what play she wants to do before the we we sort of launch the the workshop. Uh-huh. Um we tend to launch it sort of October so that we've got plenty of time for people to sign up and then it happens in the first or second week of January.

[48:15] James Bell: Um that's during the the summer school holidays here. So it's it's um uh sort of a a school holiday program for us. Um and so people who come know what the play is gonna be.

[48:28] James Bell: And I I suggest that most of the people who are involved are Shakespeare fans. They're they're high school age, but um and and there's ongoing discussions in New Zealand about how relevant Shakespeare is in the curriculum and do you still need to study it and and that sort of thing.

[48:46] James Bell: So some of them get the opportunity to do Shakespeare to study Shakespeare at school, uh, others don't. Um there are some who are homeschooled, and so for them it's an opportunity who can engage with performing Shakespeare as opposed to learning about Shakespeare in a home environment.

[49:01] James Bell: Um so most of them are familiar with the play, but when they arrive on the day, they don't have their parts, they don't have the script or anything like that. So it is something that they uh work with during the week and and through multiple rehearsals and so on.

[49:16] James Bell: Um the scripts are trumpet to accommodate size of cast and and that sort of thing, of course. So we're not doing a full five act much and do about nothing. Uh but um it is nevertheless it's it's Shakespeare as it as it's written.

[49:32] Sean Chandler: That's like very, very similar to like a lot of drama camps. Um, you know, you you you're doing like three or four different shows over the course of you know three or four weeks or however long you're there.

[49:45] Sean Chandler: I've I've never been to one, but it's my understanding that they move fast and you have to be prepared. And that's great because I think that um one of the things when I'm putting on a show that I look for is uh preparation work habits.

[50:02] Sean Chandler: Um and and you know, does this person did they study their lines last night? Did they, you know, are did they come prepared for what what needed to be done that particular day of rehearsal? That as a little bit about me, that affects me quite a bit. I mean, I'm the kind of person who like auditions will sit there and write, didn't show up with their sides or showed up late because you know, and so this is I I think that a director, sorry, I'm a bit bescattered on this, but uh the a director that has directed one of my plays said it very, very well, you know, you know, we're not looking for the absolute most blow me away talented person, uh, because there's gonna be a handful of those who are really like killing the role in an audition.

[50:53] James Bell: I'm also looking for the person that I know that I could spend six weeks with and deal with and that I know is gonna show up and be prepared and have excellent work habits because trust me, it's backfired on us before.

[51:10] James Bell: But so that's that is great. I mean, that is so good for these students because it's teaching them a lot. And it may be like a bit of a baptism by fire by some of them, but that's the way it goes. And that's yeah, that's what they want to do. That's you know, yeah. And some of them are not performers. I mean, Megs gets feedback from parents who are amazed at what she's been able to do, you know, the kids who are very shy and reserved or perhaps a little bit on the spectrum or something like that. And then to see them after a week on stage with other people performing, being a character, being expressive, can be quite emotional for those parents as well. So again, it's a way that drama and theater, it's not just about entertainment, it's life skills and development and all of that sort of thing.

[52:04] Sean Chandler: Wow, so many of the educational people or people in education that I interview say that that is just so wonderful to see. It's just watching someone just sort of open up in that way. It's like one of the biggest rewards of being a theater teacher or theater professor. So that's really cool. I'm so impressed that that's occurring there because you're developing new talent and it's so, so helpful. And sometimes, I'm not to be overly dramatic, but sometimes that can save a kid's life or you know, because of that connection that they think. So that's so awesome.

[52:52] Sean Chandler: Tell me what are some of the challenges facing the PumpHouse Theatre? Is there are there certain things that you are constantly working on, or is there anything right now? I mean, other than the C word.

[53:06] James Bell: Yeah, um so I mean, there's two. One of them is probably a challenge of our own making. Um so for example, the Shakespeare in a week is incredibly popular, and we get can you do it every year? Or sorry, can you do it every school holiday period? And unfortunately, because we're so busy as a venue, we can't. We've got people already booked in and sort of the spaces. I think if you were custom building a theater, you'd put in soundproofing and you know, make sure there was separation of your various spaces, but because again, one of the challenges of being a reclaimed building is that it is what it is. Um so we can't tend to do multiple things at once, which we could definitely do a lot more in the education space and so on if we had more space to do that and sort of more time in the calendar and better management of that. So that's something we're looking at.

[54:02] James Bell: Um it's a difficult one because you know, people doing a show for two weeks, they need to build a set, they need to have it on stage. We can't really let people perform on somebody else's set or use somebody else's dressing room space. So um the other big challenge for us this year is going to be around funding. So we our operating costs are covered around about a third by our local council through their operating, so for our very local neighborhood level council funding. Um about a third come from other grants and donations and so on, then the final third from the venue rental costs. So it's quite heavily subsidized venue rental for our community groups and non-professionals.

[54:57] James Bell: Um we have a new mayor in Auckland. Um he's quite a business-friendly mayor and doesn't really see the point in libraries and the arts and that sort of thing. Uh he's told our local community board to cut funding, and that could see us lose all of our funding from the council or about a third of our funding overall. Um now we know that our local politicians don't want to do that, they're incredibly supportive of us and all the other arts centers around in our neighborhood. Um, and they actually get really good value for money because the model that they've adopted some time ago is that instead of opening up their own theatre as a council and you know, for as a public amenity, they've given us money to run ours.

[55:44] James Bell: Um, and so for what they give us, so the funding level they give us, they could probably afford to hire one staff member for something they ran themselves. So they get amazing value for money from the funding that they give us, but nevertheless, they've been told you might need to cut that funds, and by the way, all the regional arts grant funding that we do, we're gonna stop doing that as well. So if that goes ahead, so this is the mayor's proposal. Um it will be finalized and then come out for public submissions. But if that goes ahead, that could see us either with a cut or a complete elimination of our operating funding from Auckland Council.

[56:27] James Bell: And then on top of that, because Auckland Council owns the land in the building that we are in, we don't pay commercial rents or anything like that for that space. So if cost savings have to be found around maintenance in buildings and so on, we could end up having to pay more for the maintenance and the ongoing cost of the building, in addition to funding cuts on the other side. So it's a challenge, it's not a great way to start the year. Um but we've been through this before. Um, and as I say, we have really strong support from our local neighborhood level representatives up into council and if we have an event.

[57:18] James Bell: So we have two sort of local representatives on Auckland Council for sort of Auckland as a whole in our local neighborhood. If we have an event at the PumpHouse, like our annual general meeting or an opening of something, they will usually both come, um, which is absolutely fantastic. I it's not the level of support I would expect from a politician. Um, especially, you know, we tend to see a lot of people come into those things in an election year when it's good for them to be seen out and about and at these community events, but we will see them come along, you know, if they're free and we've got an event on, they will usually pop in and say hello.

[57:57] James Bell: Um, so confident that we've got their support. Um yeah not so not so much about the mayor, we don't really see the mayor very much um so that's going to be a challenge to see what happens over the next 12 months and how that affects our funding.

[58:15] Sean Chandler: Do you take donations from the public and can people go to a particular page and donate?

[58:23] James Bell: Yeah so um on our website um we can take donations online um via our credit card or something like that or we've got bank details as well and that's something that we will probably have to um publicize a little bit more shall we say. Um we don't get it, it's interesting again we talk about challenges one of the there was a lot of public support around establishing the PumpHouse Theatre and starting and saving the building now it's up and running and it's going very well a lot of the people who did that initial work are wanting to take a step back they want to enjoy the theatre but they don't want to be coming out and doing you know bake sales and fundraising anymore they just want to relax and retire.

[59:16] James Bell: But because the theatre is so busy and changes in sort of society as well we don't have as many people volunteering to sort of come and run donation drives or go out and seek sponsorship and that sort of thing, as we perhaps have in the past. So we find ourselves sort of a little bit of a victim of our own success, really, because we are seen to be thriving and doing so well. And of course, you know, inflation's rife and cost of living and all that sort of thing going on in the society is as well. It's difficult.

[1:00:05] James Bell: So I have a I worked for the government, so I sort of worked in the social sector around financial support for people. And so I'm aware of how much people struggle in the community and how important things like food banks and social services are. And so I it's as much as I think the arts is critically important to a community and a society, food and housing is also critically important. And if people have limited money for donations and things, getting people off the street and food in people's stomachs is more important than having a nice theater. But they're all important.

[1:00:49] Sean Chandler: Wow. Well it's nice that you have that type of perspective. Um, but still, this is I think in my opinion, it feels necessary that there is focus placed upon PumpHouse Theatre and its future success because we talked about it earlier, and you said that there is a tremendous amount of community ownership towards this theater. And so uh I think that it's very, very valid for you to put that into. I mean, maybe not as high as you know, housing and food, but it's up there.

[1:01:34] Sean Chandler: I mean, people there's one thing we found out during sorry, I'm bringing it up again, COVID is that it was a human need that people have theater, that they have entertainment, that we don't just want to sit in our houses and watch Netflix. As much as I love TV and can watch a lot of it, you know, people need more than that. They need theater, they need sporting events. We need to get out and be a community.

[1:02:03] Sean Chandler: So um I like I said, I appreciate your putting the perspective on it, but my opinion is that the mayor needs to maybe shift his paradigm. I mean, granted, I don't live there, but um that's yeah, you know, just if I could just tell him knock it off and give these people some money.

[1:02:24] James Bell: Unfortunately, I think his perspective is not that the money should be better spent on housing and food. I from what I can tell, he wants to pay down debt so that the interest rates come down and then they can borrow some more for other things, and he wants to, you know, not put up people's property taxes and that sort of thing. So it's not like he's got some big altruistic plan. It's just that you know, he ran on the thing of balancing the budget and no rates rises and no tax increase, no property tax increases.

[1:02:57] James Bell: And in order to do that, he has to cut services and of course, as usual, the arts. Um, you know, the first one on the block. We we haven't attracted much attention from him yet. So probably doesn't know we're there. Um, but he's certainly been saying some things in the media about you know the Auckland Art Gallery and and it because it always comes down to then your personal taste. I didn't like this, so the art gallery is a waste of time, or you know, this show is you know something that we don't like, so we shouldn't have theaters. Um that tends to be the rhetoric around it um in the past. So we'll see how it plays out. It's time for uh you two shine the bat symbol of the Pump House Theatre and make them pay attention. That's what I think.

[1:03:45] Sean Chandler: Absolutely. Um tell us about your most current season at the Pump House Theatre, what's going on there right now.

[1:03:52] James Bell: So in um just over 24 hours, uh Anthony Cleopatra will open out in our outdoor amphitheatre. Um it's the first of two uh the two shows in our Shakespeare in the Park season this year. Um the second one being Merry Wives of Windsor, which opens Tuesday next week our time. Um I'm directing Merry Wives of Windsor um with uh my my other hat on. So this is what I do uh when I'm not at work, is is involved in this uh theatre company called Shoreside Theatre, and we've been producing Shakespeare in the Park at the Pump House for about 27-28 years now. Um so that's that's what's coming up. Um that's gonna run for 26 performances over four weeks. Um and those two shows alternate um on different nights.

Um we've got probably I think each cast is about 20 people, uh, and again they range from professional proper film actors um right through to people who have uh you know this might be their first time on stage, so it's a real community um production. All the costumes are uh sort of handmade uh um costume designer for Merry Wives of Windsor has just received a nomination for her work in last year's Shakespeare in the Park. She's been nominated for Best Costume Design in the Auckland Community Theatre Awards.

[1:05:25] Sean Chandler: Wow, props to her.

[1:05:27] James Bell: Absolutely. Um she also performs in the plays, so you know she does double duty as costume designer, uh, makes most of the costumes and then also performs and learns her lines. So uh but you know, going back to what we're talking about uh previously about sort of the audiences of the future, she's a really good example. She used to come along when she was eight, nine, ten years old to watch our Shakespeare in the Park productions, and she's gone on through high school and you know, learned more about sewing, and she's done a costume design degree. Um, and now she's you know, even before she'd done the degree, she's actively involved in the show. So she's gone from audience member to sort of a key leading part in in the the shows again, exactly what we're here for.

Um so yeah, that's Shakespeare in the Park. It's uh looking to be a pretty good season after the last couple of years, we're at a little limit on our numbers for various restrictions and so on. Um, so we're we're selling pretty well, and uh weather's looking not too bad. Um I should point out perhaps that it is summer in New Zealand at the moment, yeah. Um, and we can get up to twenty four, twenty-five degrees uh Celsius um during the day. So you can have really nice hot summers, a nice summer evening. Um because we're in that park by the lake, people very often will come down and have a picnic by the lake and then wander over to see the show at 7:30 just as the sun goes down. As I said, the amphitheater outside isn't covered, so on a nice clear night all the stars and the moon come up with lovely.

[1:07:02] Sean Chandler: That's outstanding. That's that's wonderful. Uh my husband was in Merry Wives of Windsor he played Dr. Caius.

[1:07:12] James Bell: Right, yes.

[1:07:13] Sean Chandler: And he can still rattle off his French monologue like and this this is like something like 25, 26 years ago when he was in it, and he's still you can still say the whole entire thing, which is um fantastic.

[1:07:26] James Bell: Yeah, they yeah, it's it's uh they've we've struggled a little bit this year with with both both plays, Anthony Cleopatra and um Merry Wives of Windsor from a production level with cast availability because again, COVID. Um so I think everyone's had some time out with that. Um because sort of borders are opening up and people can travel, a lot of people have gone overseas to visit family for the first time in two or three years.

[1:07:56] Sean Chandler: Oh yeah.

[1:07:57] James Bell: Um so we've we've missed people for that. And this is uh you know, it's one of the challenges of community theatre, right? You know, people want to be in the show, but they've also got a life and children and work and partners and you know, we we often talk to the cast about look, if there's other people in your life who have some control or some say in what you do with your time, make sure they know what's happening with with your commitment to this production as well, because it is a big commitment. Um but it's coming together, it it will be ready for for opening night. And yeah, looking forward to another good season and hopefully not too much bad weather.

[1:08:34] Sean Chandler: Outstanding. Okay. I want to wrap up but very quickly could you tell me if you could have three wishes for the company, what would they be?

[1:08:36] James Bell: Good question. I think number one is enough funding that we can that we don't need to worry about funding year on year. When we start the year we are typically 20 to 30 new uh well no actually close to 5000 New Zealand dollars those that are 25 30 thousand US short in our budget and we have to pick that up by finding more hires from what we had have initially booked funding applications, donations, that sort of thing. If I won the lottery I would donate a couple of million dollars to the Pump House to put in an investment fund we could then take out that $50,000 a year and we would be self-sufficient in you know for the long term. So that's my wish two million dollars in an investment fund. Number two would be more space so that we could um further develop our education programs.

I think that there's a desperate need for I well, need but also desire for people to come and learn about performing, learn about theatre. And the thing that stops us is just having the space and the being able to fit it in with the other things that we have ongoing. So if we could convince um Auckland Council to let us put a building somewhere on our site that was a classroom, I I think that would make a big difference.

[1:11:05] James Bell: Um from when she was involved in the art gallery side of things, you really get the impression that you know, as the business manager and and my team, we are caretakers of the space for the next generation. And I I joke with the you know, we get we get the the sort of the old ladies who come in and tell us how how well or not we're doing things. Um, you know, encourage my team, make sure you're taking notes so that in 40 years' time you can be the person who comes and harasses the the manager and says, in my day, we put the Rochbins over there. Um that that sort of thing. Um so I think you know, we it's been here for well, the building's 130 years old, the theatre's been going since 1977, so we're coming up for 50 years um as a performing arts centre.

You know, I'd love it to be here for another 150 years, um, continuously showcasing local stories by local people um with a great diversity and a great range of of performances and uh a stepping stone for actors and and people who are inspired to take part in any sort of performing arts.

[1:12:20] Sean Chandler: Please give our audience your social media information so that they can keep up with the Pump House Theater.

[1:12:35] James Bell: Yeah, if they go to so easiest place to find out what we're up to is to go into our website at pumphouse.co.nz. That's p-u-m p h o use.co.nz. Um and yeah, if you would like to donate, you can go to pumphouse.k.nz slash donate. And um there's plenty of information there on on how you can make a donation and support us. And uh if anyone would like to give us a couple of million dollars for my investment fund, that would be lovely.

[1:13:02] Sean Chandler: I thank you for for being on the show. I thank you for being the inaugural show. Um it was wonderful, wonderful to hear about the Pump House Theater and um you have been absolutely amazing, and I I want you to know that I wish you many broken legs uh for all the wonderful work that you do, for your two uh upcoming Shakespeare shows, um, and and everything that I know will happen in the future in a very, very positive light for the Pump House Theater. Thanks so much, James, for being on your program as your ticket. We appreciate it.

[1:13:40] James Bell: Thank you very much for having me.

[1:13:43] Sean Chandler: Well, folks, the 11 o'clock number has been sung and the bows have been taken, so it's time to lower the curtain. Once again, a big thanks to my guest, James Bell, Business Manager of the Pump House Theater in New Zealand. James asked me to mention his Facebook page, so here we go. He is on Facebook.com/slash the Pump House Theater. That's theater with an RE. You can find more episodes of your program Is Your Ticket on the Broadway Podcast Network, who has honored me with a place on their incredible theater podcast platform. Broadway Podcast Network is all about creating an engaging, immersive, user-friendly experience where theater stories of all kinds can be easily found, shared, and enjoyed.

Please visit them on my landing page at bpn.fm slash YPIYT. Your program is your ticket is also on Facebook at Facebook.com, your program is your ticket, Twitter at at program ticket, Instagram at your program is your ticket, YouTube at your program is your ticket, iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, Podcast Addict, Podbean, Pocket Casts, Deezer, TuneIn, Listen Notes, and the UK based theater platform Fespi. FYI, I appreciate all good ratings, reviews, and subscriptions. Another quick note of thanks to the Communicator Awards for honoring your program is your ticket with four awards. An award of excellence for individual episodes in the arts and culture category, and three awards of distinction. Two for my Act Two Places series, one in the entertainment category, and one in the educational category, and one for me in featured hosts category.

Isn't that nice? I'm extremely grateful for the honor and owe it all to my wonderful guests, listeners, and my Broadway Podcast Network family. Folks, take a little time to visit theater websites and see what they have to offer and go see their shows. Give them all great ratings and reviews, and most important, donate, donate, donate. As always, thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. And remember, theater is for everyone.