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[0:04] Sean Chandler: Hi everyone, I'm your host, Sean Chandler, and you're listening to Your Program Is Your Ticket, a discussion of smaller theater works and the people and organizations that make it happen.

[0:13] Sean Chandler: My guest today is Your Program Is Your Ticket alumni favorite, multi-talented Douglas Widick. He is here today to talk about his exciting new musical, Paperclip, which has been honored with a spot in the 2025 Edinburgh Fringe Festival. How cool is that?

[0:28] Sean Chandler: Here's a synopsis. Microsoft Word's writing assistant Clippy has seen the future, and it is bleak. Determined to prevent the impending techno dystopia brought about by artificial intelligence, Clippy travels back in time to warn humanity in a thrilling time-traveling adventure through the internet. I am way stoked for this, so let's bring on the interview.

[0:51] Sean Chandler: Hi, Douglas, and welcome back to Your Program Is Your Ticket.

[0:55] Douglas Widick: Hey, how's it going?

[0:56] Sean Chandler: It's going great. I think this is, I think you're like in the three-time club now.

[1:03] Sean Chandler: I interviewed you once as a group with North Coast, yes, who I love. They're an amazing company, and they do such great work.

[1:10] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[1:12] Sean Chandler: Um, and you're a big part of that. And then we started to do videos of Your Program Is Your Ticket, and you came in as a theater leader.

[1:24] Douglas Widick: Right, right, yes.

[1:25] Sean Chandler: And it was the Neo-Futurists and myself in the interview, yeah.

[1:30] Douglas Widick: And Alison Thredgold from Strip Scripts.

[1:32] Sean Chandler: Oh yes. So, um, we had just for those of you out there who are wondering why are there only two, we wanted to do two and then sort of give it a moratorium and figure out what needed to change and all that and then go back to it.

[1:45] Sean Chandler: By the time we were ready to go back to it, COVID had shut everything down, and nobody could do anything in person anymore. So it's still there, and you know, whenever we can, David and I can work it into our schedule, so yeah.

[1:58] Sean Chandler: Um, but anyways, and it's so great to have you as a third-time guest.

[2:04] Douglas Widick: I'm the three-timers, maybe a small but exclusive group.

[2:08] Sean Chandler: I know, I think that there's, uh, I think Melissa Mashido is on the five-time club. She's been on the podcast five times.

[2:17] Douglas Widick: Yeah, she's a really great artist and a nice person too, very cool.

[2:25] Sean Chandler: Um, well let's start by having you introduce yourself or reintroduce yourself or introduce yourself to the new listeners. Um, tell us about yourself, your life, your work, your passions, just give us a little background.

[2:38] Douglas Widick: For sure. Uh, my name is Douglas Widick. I'm a performer and a producer based out of Brooklyn, New York. I absolutely love improv and have been doing it for a very long time, but I've recently made the pivot to scripted one-man material with lots of peppered-in improvised moments, clown moments, things like that, which led me to do my first ever scripted one-hour one-person show, Paperclip, which I am currently promoting, producing, and on my way to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival with.

[3:13] Douglas Widick: I have a podcast studio in Dumbo where I also produce musical artists called Sweet Tea Studio. I just got married, and I'm the proud dad to a Scottish terrier named Skylar.

[3:24] Sean Chandler: Wow, very nice. I congratulated you when you walked in, but again, congratulations on getting married.

[3:30] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[3:31] Sean Chandler: Um, I saw a photo of your wife. She's lovely.

[3:34] Douglas Widick: She's lovely.

[3:35] Sean Chandler: Yeah, lovely, lovely lady. Um, that's amazing. So you are very, very, very busy.

[3:41] Douglas Widick: Yes, busy guy.

[3:42] Sean Chandler: You're spinning a lot of plates these days.

[3:44] Douglas Widick: Truly, truly. I'm on the inboxes. I try not to let anything, you know, get out of my vision.

[3:51] Sean Chandler: So would you say that, uh, like Bell the Bell from when you work up, I'm sorry, wake up, Englishan, when you wake up to just before you go to sleep, about how many hours in a day do you, uh, put in with, uh, like cumulatively of all your projects?

[4:07] Douglas Widick: Yeah, so it's definitely something that takes goes into my weekends, but I'm much better about not letting work go into my evenings than I used to be in my 20s. So I wake up, you know, maybe two, three hours of, uh, breakfast, walk the dog, some nice calm moments in the morning, but then I'm off to the studio and I'm taking care of business till six, six, seven p.m. every single day.

[4:34] Douglas Widick: And um, I've got clients that I'm recording, I've got projects that are being developed. I'm either rehearsing or performing Paperclip, uh, and a lot of things do bleed into the weekend because during those really good, fresh, alert waking hours, I'm able to solve problems. But once I'm, you know, at the end of the day, once that good energy has left your brain, and obviously when you're on stage, it hasn't left your brain because you're feeding off the crowd, but at the end of the day, then I'm a lot better now at shutting off at the end of the day.

[5:04] Douglas Widick: Sometimes, I mean, you can ask my wife. She might say I'm not that good at turning it off, but between North Coast and the studio and then my own personal projects, um, I work hard and focused, and then when I'm off, I really try to be off and be present.

[5:21] Sean Chandler: Oh, wow, cool. That's good.

[5:24] Sean Chandler: Um, I can relate. I really can. Um, I have to make sure that I turn my brain off and I don't know, watch TV or read or something, or maybe I don't know, go out to dinner with my husband David or something like that.

[5:41] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[5:41] Sean Chandler: But it's so important because it's the recharge that you need. And with being a performer, I think one of the things that is super important about performing is that you have to have, even though you're up, you're reciting lines or you're singing or you're moving around, you're connecting, you have to sort of tap into almost a vibrational energy inside of you.

[6:06] Douglas Widick: Yes.

[6:06] Sean Chandler: That's what's going to, I think, uh, draw the attention from the audience. If it's not there, I feel like you can sort of fall into, I don't know, uh, just sort of going through the motions or phoning it in, yes, or what have you. So it's important that you, I think a person, especially somebody who's doing everything you're doing, uh, knows how to sort of turn that on and turn that off again.

[6:31] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[6:32] Sean Chandler: And access that. So is that, do you struggle with that or have you gotten pretty good at it over the years?

[6:39] Douglas Widick: It really depends on the day. I think that there when you're on stage and you're feeding off of a crowd, that vibrational energy enters the room and you are on, you are with them. But if for some reason it doesn't click early on and it's just you on stage, I mean, any stand-up, any solo performer will tell you, okay, you are now in the red, and you have gotta find your way back to zero.

[7:04] Douglas Widick: And you can do it, you can earn the audience back, but you have to be so connected and so present. Being mindful and being present isn't just sitting in a room and connecting to your breath, it's being with the audience that has come to see you that night. And so I have found that that same energy, if you say you tap into it once a day, even just when you're vocalizing and you're making sure that your voice is in shape, that it's a thing you come back to, and if you can click into it, you're gonna have a better chance of clicking into it with an audience.

[7:40] Douglas Widick: So you damn well sure better try to do it when you're not in front of an audience. And what does that mean? Is it when you're vocalizing, or is it even just when you're walking down the street, taking your headphones off for a second and making mindful notes of like, oh, that person has an interesting voice, that person has an interesting walk. And if you can do that when you're not on the stage, it helps you on the stage a lot.

[8:03] Sean Chandler: Oh, absolutely. Um, I should tell everyone that we are in a rehearsal studio right now, so you might hear people talking, laughing, uh, singing. Uh, I've heard like full-on operas go on when I've been recording podcasts, but that's theater in New York for you.

[8:20] Douglas Widick: Yep, exactly.

[8:21] Sean Chandler: You're right in the nest. Uh, yeah. And there are so many. I remember one of the things that I kind of laughed about when I first started doing this, is that like there are so many of these rehearsal studios that are tucked away. Like you'll see this big office building, and you're like, okay, you're gonna go in there. I'm sorry, I'm going in what looks like an insurance company.

[8:43] Douglas Widick: Yes, you're gonna go to the tenth floor, and then that's where it is, and you go up there, and there's the studio, and oftentimes giant theaters.

[8:50] Sean Chandler: Yeah, it's an odd syndrome. I'll never forget, just to on the subject of the noise in the room. Two things. First, if my studio has a fencing school above me that I have to negotiate, I have to negotiate with them to be like, and they also during the school year they're only from four onwards. So I'd work before four.

[9:10] Douglas Widick: But also one time at Ripley Greer, uh, which is not where we are right now, um, they I had a woman complain about my singing next door because I didn't book the room.

[9:22] Sean Chandler: Well, guess what? I was a walk-in lady, and so they didn't have my name on the door. You know how they have your name on door sometimes.

[9:29] Douglas Widick: Oh yeah.

[9:30] Sean Chandler: So she went to the front desk and she said, "This guy stole a room and he's singing too loud." And I was like, listen, I'm amazing. You're rude, get out of here.

[9:43] Douglas Widick: I love it.

[9:44] Sean Chandler: Yeah. Well, one of my favorite stories of that kind of thing is actually, um, I went to a writer's group for about three years when I first moved here, and we used a Ripley Greer room. Again, this is not a Ripley Greer studio that we're in right now, uh, but they're kind of a big, they're all over the place.

[10:05] Douglas Widick: Yeah, they had like two or three locations, right?

[10:07] Sean Chandler: Yeah, yeah, they're very well known. Yeah, and uh, we were sitting in writers' groups, I don't know how familiar you are with them, but you just basically bring stuff and then you read it out loud and get critiqued and all that.

[10:18] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[10:18] Sean Chandler: And um, I'm hearing this person singing. Singing, and this is actually a person that is singing really, really well. Yeah, um, and I thought, oh my god, that person is singing incredibly well. We, I guess, had to leave the room at the same time, which is common, you usually leave on the half of the, uh, on the hour.

[10:39] Douglas Widick: Um.

[10:39] Sean Chandler: And it was Donna McKechnie.

[10:42] Douglas Widick: Oh wow.

[10:43] Sean Chandler: I know, and I was so close to running up to her because I met her at an event one time. I have a photo of myself with her. She's very, very nice. And I was I was almost gonna go up and but I'm like, you know, that would be out of context and weird, and I try not to do that.

[10:59] Douglas Widick: For sure.

[11:00] Sean Chandler: I sometimes I can't help myself if I see a celebrity that I like to do a person. I'm like, for sure.

[11:04] Douglas Widick: I know, I know.

[11:04] Sean Chandler: But yeah, I try not to stage door and all that. And not that I think I'm a bother or anything like that. I just don't want to make them uncomfortable.

[11:12] Douglas Widick: So hey, you got a little free concert.

[11:15] Sean Chandler: Right. Yeah. Yeah. She was great. And then the event that we went to was it was to celebrate a season of a play that my husband and I landed in, and um, and she did a little bit of dancing from A Chorus Line. You can still high kick and fan kick and all that stuff. Uh, I don't know if she could still do Music in the Mirror, but who knows.

[11:36] Douglas Widick: Um, she was really, really good. Outstanding lady. Um, I wanted to ask yourself, you mentioned, um, in your new show something about clown moments.

[11:49] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[11:49] Sean Chandler: So keep that in mind because right now I'm going to ask you to tell us about Paperclip the musical. And is that how it's referred to? Paperclip the musical, or is it just Paperclip?

[11:58] Douglas Widick: Um, yeah, so it's in Edinburgh, I was advised to call it Douglas Widick Paperclip. There's a big cult of personality where you have the name of the comic and then the name of their show. But the show's called Paperclip.

[12:12] Sean Chandler: Okay, cool. All right, so tell us about Paperclip. Uh, what's it about?

[12:20] Douglas Widick: Yeah. So Paperclip is about Clippy from Microsoft Word, the annoying paper clip that used to pop up on the bottom right of your screen.

[12:28] Sean Chandler: Oh my god, yes.

[12:29] Douglas Widick: Yes. And right, and that response you just had right there is indicative of how little he was disliked, right? But Clippy was the first instance of the public having machine learning or AI in their, you know, publicly available. It was all behind the scenes, and then Microsoft thought, well, we'll put this little writing assistant that no one used, no one liked, and it wasn't effective, right?

[12:57] Douglas Widick: And so my show is about Clippy trying to redeem his reputation in the public eye by helping save humanity against the perils of AI. So we live in this time where ChatGPT, all these things are beginning, starting to become ubiquitous, and it's getting a little weird, right? You don't know when someone writes you an email and you see an M-dash and you're like, wait, was this written by them or did ChatGPT write this?

[13:22] Douglas Widick: So AI is on people's minds. And so I wanted to write a show from the viewpoint vantage point of Clippy, where he saves the world from the crazy techno dystopia that we're all heading towards right now. So it takes place, the show starts right now, and Clippy has traveled to right now to warn everybody about how bad the future is about to be.

[13:46] Douglas Widick: And so that's the premise of the show. And then there's more. I take the audience back in time with me, and we go to kill Alan Turing in 1954 because he's the founder of machine learning. He's the reason we have AI now, because of the cryptographic techniques that Alan Turing created in the world in World War II to help us defeat Germany.

[14:11] Sean Chandler: What was the film about that?

[14:12] Douglas Widick: Uh, I haven't seen it yet. I probably should see it before I do more any more interviews.

[14:17] Sean Chandler: Oh no, no, I mean, I know there's a film about it.

[14:20] Douglas Widick: The something code, right?

[14:22] Sean Chandler: Yes. Yes.

[14:23] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[14:34] Douglas Widick: Benedict Cumberbatch, okay.

[14:36] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[14:36] Douglas Widick: So he plays Alan Turing.

[14:38] Sean Chandler: And Alan Turing, um, even though he's initially the villain in the... should we on sound or not?

[14:44] Douglas Widick: No, no, it's okay. Um, even though he's initially the villain in the show, uh, just for anyone listening who are Alan Turing stands, he is totally redeemed in the show, and the true villain comes to light later in the show.

[14:57] Sean Chandler: So the show is essentially about Clippy redeeming his reputation by saving humanity from the perils of AI.

[15:04] Douglas Widick: A little heady, but a lot of fun.

[15:06] Sean Chandler: No, I love it. I think it's great. You know, it feels very much an... I like when shows start with an idea of what if?

[15:16] Douglas Widick: Mm-hmm.

[15:17] Sean Chandler: You know, what if this character that we all sort of barely remember but was there?

[15:23] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[15:24] Sean Chandler: Comes and actually does something that's maybe different, but sort of the same of what they used to do, but it's going to assist the world.

[15:34] Douglas Widick: I mean, I think it's very, very cool.

[15:36] Sean Chandler: Um, the name of the movie, by the way, is The Imitation Gang.

[15:39] Douglas Widick: Oh, okay, cool.

[15:40] Sean Chandler: Yes, yes. And he got an Academy Award nomination for that.

[15:44] Douglas Widick: So very, very cool. Now, um, you say that you have clown moments.

[15:50] Sean Chandler: Did you study clowning in school?

[15:52] Douglas Widick: A little bit, yeah. We studied some clown and some mime at Stella Adler.

[15:56] Sean Chandler: That was wonderful.

[15:58] Douglas Widick: It's very light on the clown that, you know, saying that might have been presumptuous, but there are some moments in the beginning where I'm playing with the audience and the interactions are clown-like, but it's not heavy on the clown.

[16:10] Sean Chandler: It's more heavy on improv, the show.

[16:12] Douglas Widick: But there are moments where I'm working with a few prop paper clips in the beginning that I would think of as a sort of clown moment because I'm feeding so heavily with the props and the audience in those moments.

[16:23] Sean Chandler: Yeah, a lot of people have on the show talked about clowning and studying it and clown moments and things like that. But how would you describe a clown moment?

[16:34] Douglas Widick: Like, what is the quintessential sort of like what are the components that have to be there in that moment that make it a clown moment?

[16:41] Sean Chandler: That's a great question.

[16:42] Douglas Widick: And I know some clowns that have amazing answers to that. What my one of my really close friends, uh, Ralph Jean Jean Pierre is a professional clown, and he would say that it's when you're taking something very serious.

[16:56] Sean Chandler: I'm sorry, very something very stupid very seriously.

[16:59] Douglas Widick: So we did we actually had a long conversation about how dogs are the ultimate clowns because they look so ridiculous, but they take everything dead serious, right?

[17:09] Sean Chandler: We have these furry, fluffy, silly eyes, the silly mouths, everything, the pointy ears, but they are the most serious animals in the world.

[17:17] Douglas Widick: I will save you from a burning building, I will see you know, you're having a seizure, you know, like oh, I'll retrieve that duck.

[17:24] Sean Chandler: I'm going right now.

[17:25] Douglas Widick: But they look so cute and silly while they're doing it. And so I think a big component of clown and thinking back to some of my favorite clowns, is doing something ridiculous with the absolute most serious intention.

[17:39] Sean Chandler: Wow.

[17:40] Douglas Widick: Um, I always bring this up whenever somebody talks about clowning, but um, I absolutely love the TV show Baskets.

[17:47] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[17:48] Douglas Widick: Did you watch that show?

[17:49] Sean Chandler: I didn't.

[17:49] Douglas Widick: I saw I heard it was great though.

[17:51] Sean Chandler: Oh my gosh, it's so, so good. Um, where there's a character, well, there's an actor who plays two twins.

[18:00] Douglas Widick: One is a clown and one is a little kind of like a little I don't want to say more serious, but sort of the opposite of a clown.

[18:07] Sean Chandler: Uh this guy is a professional clown who's uh, who's learned in I guess France.

[18:13] Douglas Widick: And the real reason to see the show is because Louie Anderson plays their mother and is like sublimely terrific.

[18:23] Sean Chandler: And you know, he's gone now, but yeah, uh, he had a very, very nice uh send-off with this great part where he plays Christine Baskets.

[18:30] Douglas Widick: If you're ever sick and you want to like sort of binge something, or just start watching that and hook into that performance, it is absolutely incredible.

[18:39] Sean Chandler: Heck yeah.

[18:39] Douglas Widick: Oh yeah, very, very good.

[18:41] Sean Chandler: Um wow, so that's awesome. Um, you have a director.

[18:46] Douglas Widick: Yes.

[18:47] Sean Chandler: Uh tell us about your director first, and then tell us about how what their vision of the piece is like.

[18:55] Douglas Widick: Because the director is supposed to be the one who's putting the actual vision uh, up on stage or on camera or what have you.

[19:03] Sean Chandler: Yeah, so my director is Sarah Smallwood Parsons.

[19:07] Douglas Widick: They are a performer and director at the Upright Citizens Brigade, where I came up as a student of improv and sketch comedy.

[19:16] Sean Chandler: And Sarah is not only one of the funniest people in Improv and Sketch, but also so disciplined and uh has a really deep understanding of what makes any given character or sketch tick.

[19:28] Douglas Widick: It's very important that not only do we have instincts around comedy, but we can also say, well, what's actually making this work?

[19:35] Sean Chandler: And Sarah's really amazing job with helping me create the show was actually keeping me from not getting too serious.

[19:43] Douglas Widick: Every time I brought in a script, it was a little bit like Doug, uh, are you like you're thinking too deep about this AI stuff?

[19:51] Sean Chandler: Like, we need to lighten this up a little bit.

[19:54] Douglas Widick: Let's add some gags, let's add some jokes. Sarah added this whole runner about um traveling as uh clippies traveling back in time.

[19:56] Sean Chandler: This whole runner about watching, going back to watch Woolly Mammoth's Bone in the Ice Age.

[20:09] Douglas Widick: And so, yeah, ridiculous stuff.

[20:12] Sean Chandler: Yeah, it's so funny.

[20:14] Douglas Widick: And so her strength as a director was like every time I started to take myself too seriously, she reminded me what a silly guy I actually am and would keep me disciplined as a comedian.

[20:26] Sean Chandler: So I'd come in with like a, you know, maybe a slightly too long monologue kind of eviscerating open AI and some of the things that are happening right now, and she was like, well, don't forget to pepper in some hard jokes in there, and so that was a big part of our process.

[20:40] Douglas Widick: Another fantastic skill of hers was helping me edit down, just being like, I don't think you need that anymore.

[20:46] Sean Chandler: I think you do need that, and um, you know, this moment polish that, but um, the director's eye, especially with um stuff that's based in improv and sketch.

[20:57] Douglas Widick: Sometimes people, when they're improvising onto the page or writing something that were maybe they have an improv background, sometimes they can get verbose.

[21:05] Sean Chandler: And economy of language is a skill that people who are writers first are better at.

[21:10] Douglas Widick: Just point blank. Anytime you see an actor who's written a show, economy of language tends to be a weak point.

[21:16] Sean Chandler: And I could be wrong about that.

[21:18] Douglas Widick: Call me out in the comments.

[21:20] Sean Chandler: You're not, you're absolutely not.

[21:22] Douglas Widick: You can call me out too if you like, but I am a writer myself, and yeah, it's economy is very key.

[21:29] Sean Chandler: Yes.

[21:30] Douglas Widick: Yes. And so she comes from um the character's welcome show, and she's one of the directors on Characters Welcome.

[21:38] Sean Chandler: So you have to be good about that because you will lose the audience so fast, and then you will tank.

[21:44] Douglas Widick: So she really helped me with economy of language.

[21:47] Sean Chandler: And just honestly, keeps the room fun.

[21:50] Douglas Widick: I mean, some people get really serious in the room, and Sarah just every time I ever started getting like in my head or nervous or anything, she always kept the room fun, and that's what I love in a director as well.

[22:03] Sean Chandler: Wow.

[22:04] Douglas Widick: I watched uh some of Sarah's YouTube channel, and uh I love and and Sarah, when you listen to this, I will I will you can I'm giving I'm issuing this compliment to you directly.

[22:18] Sean Chandler: I loved your version of Anna Kendrick, I love that impression.

[22:22] Douglas Widick: Um Anna Kendrick has a sort of a tendency to talk back into her mouth and and uh be very sort of clipped and and and also I love cups.

[22:34] Sean Chandler: I can't do cups, but I love the fact that you did cups.

[22:38] Douglas Widick: Um, and also uh the Brie Larson impression was great because Brie Larson always looks like she's on the verge of getting pissed.

[22:47] Sean Chandler: Oh, that's so funny.

[22:49] Douglas Widick: It's I mean, yeah, it's wild.

[22:51] Sean Chandler: It's like every time I see her talking, she looks like you're about a half a sentence away from pissing her off.

[22:57] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[22:58] Sean Chandler: Now, both of you actors are amazing.

[23:01] Douglas Widick: If you ever hear this, I think you're phenomenal and you deserve your nominations and your awards and stuff, but um, but I have to say Sarah's pretty good about getting that through.

[23:13] Douglas Widick: That's one of the reasons why I hooked into that um so easily.

[23:17] Sean Chandler: And then I understand, speaking of impressions, and you have to own this because you put it on your resume.

[23:26] Douglas Widick: You do a Marlon Brando impression.

[23:28] Sean Chandler: Oh, yeah, I do.

[23:29] Douglas Widick: You do?

[23:30] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[23:30] Douglas Widick: Listen up, Sean. I just want you to know that thank you for having me on your program and a ticket.

[23:37] Sean Chandler: Very good.

[23:39] Douglas Widick: That's great. Just for one sentence, you get that through.

[23:42] Sean Chandler: I think a lot of... Do I get my stars like Sarah?

[23:45] Douglas Widick: She gets her Oscar.

[23:46] Sean Chandler: Yeah, yes, absolutely.

[23:48] Douglas Widick: You deserve any awarded nomination that you get.

[23:51] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[23:51] Douglas Widick: No, that's good because I think a lot of people have a brand new impression.

[23:54] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[23:54] Douglas Widick: And not all of them are great.

[23:58] Sean Chandler: It's a common one.

[23:59] Douglas Widick: It's up there with, you know, your Adam Sandler's, your Jerry Seinfelds.

[24:03] Sean Chandler: Most people do those too.

[24:04] Douglas Widick: Exactly.

[24:05] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[24:05] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[24:06] Sean Chandler: I'm not, I can do, and I'm not gonna do them for you.

[24:09] Douglas Widick: I can do two great impressions.

[24:11] Sean Chandler: I can do a great Holly Hunter.

[24:14] Douglas Widick: And I can.

[24:15] Sean Chandler: Holly Hunter is one of those people who talks back to herself into her mouth as well.

[24:20] Douglas Widick: Again, love you, Holly Hunter.

[24:22] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[24:22] Douglas Widick: And I do a pretty good Clarice Starling from Silence of the Lambs.

[24:26] Sean Chandler: They're very similar in intonation and all of that, but um, enough about me.

[24:32] Douglas Widick: What was it like uh going to the Tish Stella Adler Conservatory?

[24:37] Sean Chandler: You just mentioned that.

[24:38] Douglas Widick: Yeah, yeah, I loved it.

[24:39] Sean Chandler: So I came into college as a goofball, and they noticed, oh, let's give him a little bit of his acting vegetables.

[24:46] Douglas Widick: Let's give him some Ibsen, Chekhovs.

[24:49] Sean Chandler: Sugar acting vegetables.

[24:51] Douglas Widick: Yes!

[24:53] Sean Chandler: Because I was a goof.

[24:54] Douglas Widick: I came in, I was sugar high. You know, that's what I mean. They were like, okay, so this guy is loony and high energy.

[25:02] Sean Chandler: Let's get, let's see if he can get two feet on the ground.

[25:06] Douglas Widick: He can still do silly characters, but instead of the characters existing kind of from the shoulders up and then being kind of a two-dimensional thing, let's see if we can get these same sim weirdo characters and ground them.

[25:21] Sean Chandler: And that was their big mission with me.

[25:24] Douglas Widick: So I had some really amazing teachers who saw that I loved and deeply wanted to do sketch character comedy, and instead of being like, well, we don't do that here, they said, okay, let's apply some technique to that.

[25:38] Sean Chandler: And um, for those people I'm eternally grateful.

[25:42] Douglas Widick: And then, you know, I think that there were some people who came in who were big names in Broadway who just took themselves so seriously, and it wasn't fun to study with those people.

[25:53] Sean Chandler: And I really appreciated the people who came in and said, look, we are gonna add technique to your existing talent.

[26:00] Douglas Widick: And I mean, I think that Stella Adler is a fantastic technique, and especially for actors who feel like they don't have an approach going into their work.

[26:10] Sean Chandler: They feel like maybe, okay, I have some instincts here, but I don't know what the heck to do when I hold a script.

[26:16] Douglas Widick: And maybe Strasberg scares them, and maybe Meisner feels a little too flighty.

[26:22] Sean Chandler: I think the imaginative aspect of Adler goes really well from for comedians because a lot of comedians are out there using their imaginations when they're doing long form.

[26:33] Douglas Widick: So that same muscle of imaginative emotional substitution instead of using your own personal emotional substitution.

[26:44] Sean Chandler: Are you following me?

[26:45] Douglas Widick: I am, of course. Um, that is I think a really good thing for someone from a comedy background.

[26:52] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[26:53] Douglas Widick: Wow, okay. Um, yeah, I forgot I was, I was reading an article about an... oh, oh, it was um Tony Colette in the Sixth Sense and she was so good.

[27:06] Sean Chandler: Her Oscar nomination was out of left field and she deserved it.

[27:10] Douglas Widick: She was so great in that and they were featuring the scene I don't know if you recall the movie where she's sitting in the car with her son and her son is recalling meeting the grandmother who had passed and talking about the moment with her in the front seat and uh she's of course dynamite, she's dynamite just about everything.

[27:32] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[27:32] Douglas Widick: And um, and she's crying and she's, she's, and it was said that that she uses a technique not of emo like you said before emotional replacement but she... it's there's a phenomenon to where if you can actually take your mind to that place and imagine it as a reality that your body will actually emote that way.

[27:56] Sean Chandler: It will cry, it will, you know, uh...

[27:56] Douglas Widick: So I totally, totally get that and yeah, the thing about acting, I think, is that it's just so... there's so many schools of it.

[28:10] Sean Chandler: Yes.

[28:10] Douglas Widick: And I think like you've done the right thing because you have you have picked, you've you've experienced a lot of them, and you have picked the one that really sort of assists you and who you are as an artist.

[28:24] Sean Chandler: And that's good because that means that you've taken the time to figure that out.

[28:28] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[28:28] Sean Chandler: Yeah, it's definitely so personal for each person about what can get them to be present and truthful.

[28:37] Douglas Widick: And hey, whatever works for you, this is what worked for me.

[28:41] Sean Chandler: And then leaving Adler, they actually encourage you to throw a lot of it away and just be present.

[28:48] Douglas Widick: And they're like, you've done all this work, now you just gotta be present because if you get caught acting, you're in trouble.

[28:53] Sean Chandler: Oh yeah.

[28:54] Douglas Widick: So absolutely.

[28:55] Sean Chandler: Yeah, and Adler definitely, you know, a lot of those because there's such a heavy emphasis on voice and speech in that school, some people do get caught acting, and they have to learn to kind of just throw it away and not be, I'm an actor on stage, and be like, no, you can hear me and understand me, and but it also you're not seeing the effort, something like that, yeah.

[29:16] Douglas Widick: Right, yeah, and I don't think what's interesting about that, I swear to God, we're gonna get back to Pipeline. It's so fun talking to you about this.

[29:24] Sean Chandler: Thank you.

[29:25] Douglas Widick: But um, what's interesting about that is that at that point, that's where it looks, I'm doing air quotes, it looks effortless, but it's only looking effortless because there's been a shit ton of work that's gone into it that really sort of like grounds the actor and what the character is and allows them to be able to throw it because it's so it's second nature now, yeah, and and that second nature, you know, not having to think about everything sort of comes out, and so those of you who are watching a great performance uh on stage or on screen, um, that's an outstanding actor who's done a lot more work than it appears they look like they have done.

[30:08] Sean Chandler: So true.

[30:09] Douglas Widick: Yeah, totally.

[30:09] Sean Chandler: So true.

[30:10] Douglas Widick: And I think comedy, you know, doesn't get its uh compliments in terms of like effortless mastery because funny people make it look so effortless, but it takes so much work to make a comedy scene work or a comedy performance work.

[30:25] Sean Chandler: Oh, absolutely.

[30:26] Douglas Widick: It's it's it's what they say, like you know, dying is easy comedy's hard or something along that line.

[30:32] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[30:33] Douglas Widick: Um, and I I did want to go back to uh is there a particular visual vision that Sterva has applied like up on stage as their what's it? I know uh yeah you're talking about how Sarah was great about um sort of uh giving you levity within the performance and making things lighter or yeah or comedy uh you know, cutting them, but what is the the visual picture, sort of the tableau of what they've created for you on stage, or or is it kind of difficult for you to see because you're up there doing it?

[31:07] Douglas Widick: I I think that maybe a little bit of that last point combined with we so we actually had to make the show leaner because we were gonna do a whole like time traveling modem set thing, and we cut it because I'm going to these French festivals and I'm going to London in a week and a half to do a preview. And so between all that, we were like, let's make this easier to travel with. So a lot of the set is just props being ready to go. There's a guitar that I kind of refer to as my modem a few times, instead of having this. I had one of those kids' soccer nets where they practice- I know not a baseball net where kids practice on the baseball net. I had one of those and I put a big old thing on it and I treated it like it was my time traveling modem, and I was like, F this.

I got rid of it. It was too hard to build every time, and it was distracting me from the work of getting the show across. Um, but she did encourage me to go for it in terms of having um because there's multiple characters that I play throughout it, um, anytime I'm playing against myself, so there's a scene where it's me talking to Ask Jeeves, and I'm playing Jeeves, and Clippy's actually up on the projector. And so she really did encourage me, like, okay, that's okay to do. Because the other option would be to make everything monologues, and I wanted to do something different. I wanted to do something where there was dialogue and reperte. And so there is moments where either Clippy's up on the projector or Alan Turing's up on the projector, and um she said, yes, that's okay.

That multimedia element, you know, some stand-ups will be like, oh, multimedia, oh that's a crutch. No. As long as people are laughing or people are invested in your show, it does not matter how you got them there. And so um she actually helped me feel confident and secure in that decision.

[32:56] Sean Chandler: Oh wow, well that's good.

[32:57] Douglas Widick: Yeah, yeah, they can say it's a crutch until it's amazing and fabulous, and everybody accepts it.

[33:04] Sean Chandler: Yes, that's a common thing in the arts. Everybody sort of has their own personal, you know, uh opinion and and some oftentimes negative, um, and they'll insult something until somebody comes along and actually does it and they like it.

[33:18] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[33:19] Sean Chandler: So good for you for sticking to your guns, and good for Sarah for you know supporting that and recognizing that.

[33:26] Douglas Widick: I totally get that. And I can see that in both of your backgrounds.

[33:30] Sean Chandler: Thank you.

[33:30] Douglas Widick: I can. I can see that.

[33:32] Sean Chandler: Thank you, Sarah.

[33:33] Douglas Widick: Exactly. Thank you, Sarah.

[33:35] Sean Chandler: Now, uh this is we're doing a little bit of theater college here. Um for those of you who don't know what the or may not know what the jobs are of writing a musical, there's typically three jobs, and I've explained this to so many people. I've explained it to so many Uber drivers on long trips to and fro the airport or wherever I'm going when they ask me, what do you do? Well, I have a podcast and I'm a script writer, I write musicals and stuff. But um, there is the lyricist who writes um the lyrics or the words to the songs. There is the composer who writes the music and um music to the lyrics, so and then there is a book writer, and the book writer is the person who generally comes up with um the story, and you know, I'm gonna say the most about this because this is what I do.

I'm the book writer in my musicals, but comes up with the story and the characters and uh the narrative and and the action and this and the what they're doing and and the reasons why they're doing it usually. Um my composer will always want to know um what is the motivation behind it, and uh also writes these spoken scenes in between. So now sometimes, like in my case, I write the book, and then my writing partner, the two-time Jeff Award winning Leo Schwartz out of Chicago. Hi Leo, um does the lyrics and the music. I can read music, I played music for a long time in school, um, which is very, very helpful as a book writer working with somebody because I can read it when he sends it to me. Uh, but he writes the music and the lyrics, and I write the book.

Oftentimes, um, one person writes the music, one person writes the lyrics, one person writes the books. Um or there are the rare moments when an artist does all three. They write the book, the music, and the lyrics, and that's what you've done.

[35:36] Douglas Widick: It is what was that like?

[35:39] Douglas Widick: It's crazy. I mean, there's so much resistance in like being like holding all the holding all those um titles at the same time. You're you're always keenly aware of which one is your strength, which ones are your strength, and then the imposter syndrome can double or triple in at any given moment. Um, I'm very lucky that I come from a musical improv background, and I'm a guitarist, bassist, and drummer, so I know how to give myself a backing track. I can start coming up with lyrics fast and I can get that train moving. But when it comes to scripting my own monologues or my own scenes, that's newer for me in terms of my like high level confidence there, and I really tried to push myself to not let that thought enter my brain during this process because I wanted to be like, no, I am that guy, I can do all three.

Um, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging and knowing your strengths. Like maybe the next one I'll come, I'll work with a book writer, or I'll work with um uh an accompanist. I have actually, a trusted accompanist who lended some key work on the show. Something I couldn't get that, you know, uh high quality enough. I was like, I need you to come in and you know, take Tingle of the Ivories in my studio, and he he made it better. And so, in terms of doing all three roles, yes, it's um crazy. Yes, I probably um bit off more that I can chew, but now that it's done, I'm insanely proud of being able to say that yeah, I did all three, and I think some people go to the show and they don't know that.

And so, you know, maybe I could do better about at the end being like written uh written musical, you know, music book and lyrics by Douglas Weideck or something like that. Um, because it doesn't say it, you know, in the in the projections, but yeah, yeah, it's fun, it's scary, there's a lot of opportunities for self-doubt, but there's also a lot of upside um in being that you know, the pride in being able to say that you did it yourself.

[37:45] Sean Chandler: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[37:48] Douglas Widick: Um speaking of music, I feel like we're being serenated by I don't know, but Gianna Pavarotti and La Fraviana or something like that.

[37:56] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[37:57] Douglas Widick: Audience, I hope you're enjoying our background music.

[37:59] Sean Chandler: It's lovely for us here.

[38:01] Douglas Widick: We got Bobby Bocelli in the other room.

[38:06] Sean Chandler: See, there's the improv background right there.

[38:09] Douglas Widick: Very, very, very fast.

[38:11] Sean Chandler: He's saying my daughter's wedding.

[38:13] Douglas Widick: That's funny. Um, how has your affiliation with North Coast helped in in writing and developing paperclip? I know that they're you have to come up with material like fast, like on the fly.

[38:30] Douglas Widick: Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm heading to a North Coast show after this, and I'm like, alright, I gotta get vocally and mentally warmed up. Um so when you're doing North Coast shows, you have to warm up your rhyming brain ahead of time. Because if you don't, then you have to do it in front of the audience, and the audience watches you really struggle. And that can be fun, um, but it usually not it's a better idea to come in fully warmed up on stage. So my background in North Coast helped with this because I'm able to create couplets on the fly and then you know edit them later. But the truth is that North Coast is also a very convenient distraction for me because there is an immediate gratification to improv.

It's why a lot of people will do improv for a very long time before realizing that they wanted to also create some more scripted stuff, which is definitely something that I think I dealt with. And so I actually handed off the reins of the management to North Coast to a fantastic group of three people, Mel Rubin, RJ Williams, and Luke Miller, and they are taking the torch of this group that's been around for 16 years now. I still perform with the group, but in order to create, produce, and perform something like paperclip, I need more hours in the day than I had. And so um North Coast continues to serve as an inspiration when creating, but in terms of the development of the show, I actually needed less North Coast in the picture so that I could focus on making and producing this show.

[40:08] Sean Chandler: Oh, I see.

[40:09] Douglas Widick: Okay, that's that's not the answer that I expected, actually.

[40:13] Sean Chandler: I was I had um thought to myself that maybe it was you were gonna talk about how it sort of uh strengthened your your um your musical skills, but it's it which I neither your answer answer is great. It's just I'm I'm a little bit taken aback by that.

[40:29] Douglas Widick: But um well I can clarify one thing there is an entire musical improv section of the show there's three GPTs in the show rap GPT Snap GPT and Lap GPT and all three of those are um musical improv that is very much in the vein of what I do with North Coast.

[40:48] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[40:48] Douglas Widick: Yeah yeah okay because because as I had said um uh uh sometimes we do things and we think like when I was in in in school and I did 10 years worth of music and I was like do this when I get out of school and then why did I do why did I spend all that time and then you know 25 odd years later I'm reading music to write musicals. So I don't I didn't realize how much that would help me.

[41:15] Douglas Widick: So I didn't have if when you're writing you're going oh you know doing all that work with Norco you know it's it all it all sort of like comes together.

[41:23] Sean Chandler: Yes and and and gels and uh uh did you experience that sort of uh 100% syndrome?

[41:23] Douglas Widick: Yes, yes the ability to connect and use what I did for North Coast and also going all the way back to high school jazz guitar studies and things like that using some of those chords and things when I was writing I was like I didn't realize I was gonna use a six chord in my musical but here we are I need that that warm sounding jazz chord in this song and so every single part of my journey leading up to this has fed into the creation of it. I think maybe you see it clearer than I even do because sometimes from the outside we we can see what other people um you know how we can see other people's lives clearer than they can see them themselves, and you might have an insight that I'll be ruminating on for a few days now.

[42:17] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[42:18] Douglas Widick: That makes me feel very um I don't know teacherly, I don't know. I would be a terrible teacher, so but I really appreciate that compliment. That's very nice, and that's how it works. Sometimes people say things, you're right. Sometimes people people see things that we don't see because we're in it, yeah, you know, and then all of a sudden somebody's like, Well, you know, I'm gonna acknowledge that you appear to have been really affected by this, and you're like, oh yeah, I guess maybe I was, and so that's that's a very nice thing for you to say. I appreciate that.

[42:52] Douglas Widick: Um talk about the journey of paper clip, like readings, workshops. Um what was the process like of getting into Edinburgh? And and then uh talk about the it appears that there's there's two elements to that.

[43:08] Douglas Widick: So yeah, tell our audience about that for sure. So the development process was I gotta give my shout-outs and my props to a new non-profit theater in Dumbo, Brooklyn called The Rat that held Sunday salons that I joined where people shared work and had a captive audience to share the development of their work as it as it was completed. And I it was the best accountability mechanism I could have had. Um, I had to force myself to get at least another song or two every single Sunday salon, and so the rat helped me um have enough pages that I then always had new pages to show Sarah.

[43:49] Douglas Widick: So that was about the process of six months from like last fall till like late winter. And then once the salon was over, I started doing preview performances and workshop performances at The Rat. It's a small little 40-seat theater in Dumbo, Brooklyn. It's brand new. Check it out, it's awesome. The Rat NYC. And so that process combined with a burning desire to finally perform in Edinburgh at the Edinburgh Fringe, which was sparked last year when I went to Edinburgh as an audience member. I had never been, I had heard for so long about what a magical festival it is, but I had never been. And so I went for six days and saw 29 shows last August in six days. Truly unhinged. Oh my gosh. Crazy. Because they do it all day, every single day from 10 a.m. till midnight. All I did was eat, walk, and see shows. That's all I did.

[44:48] Sean Chandler: Wow, I thought I saw a lot. That truly is. That's gotta be a record.

[44:53] Douglas Widick: It was madness. It was really moving. Yes. So that's like what's five, six shows a day or something?

[45:02] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[45:03] Douglas Widick: Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was insane. Yeah, no, I respect that assessment, because it really was. But um I saw things that blew me away. Um, Natalie Palomidez doing her show Weir, absolutely blew me away. Furioso, a clown show, truly blew me away. Talk about someone taking ridiculous things seriously, couldn't be a more serious character doing absolutely batshit crazy things during his show. He's a Polish clown named Piotr. He's fantastic. If he's ever in New York, you have to see it. And so I saw, oh wow, there's this whole world where people are doing solo material that's funny, but also moving, but also improvisational. You don't have to be just an improv thing. You don't have to be just that. So I saw those, and that inspiration led me all the way through the Sunday salon period at The Rat and then submitting to Edinburgh, which is where I'll be the entire month of August performing 27 shows of Paperclip.

[46:11] Sean Chandler: Wow. 27 performances, yeah. Do they let you treat that as sort of like a development phase while you're there? Did they change things? Or because I know when I've been in festivals, it's like what you submit is typically a couple months down the road, is what you were supposed to be performing.

[46:27] Douglas Widick: If it's an adjudicated festival, that mess. So did is that was that your experience, or were you able to sort of play with the material when you were there?

[46:37] Douglas Widick: Now I know a lot of it, just understanding a lot of it is improvisational. So that will change, but yeah, the base of the show is 90% scripted. So yeah, I mean, there's like eight scripted songs with full backing tracks. I play guitar with them. There's just this GPT section that's highly improvised, and then there's a dance sequence that's highly improvised.

[47:00] Sean Chandler: Um by you?

[47:02] Douglas Widick: Uh yeah, so I'm playing. Do you remember the screensaver, the flying toaster screensaver?

[47:05] Sean Chandler: Of course, absolutely.

[47:06] Douglas Widick: I'm the screensaver, the flying toaster screensaver, and um it's a song about his love for Buddy Holly. And um, because in the outside of the context of the show, it sounds absolutely insane. Sounds like you should literally hit stop on the recording right now. But it's that juxtaposition you were talking about, a super serious but clownish and the more that you those are sort of like the further they are away from each other, it seems like the more effective your moment is.

[47:40] Douglas Widick: Anyway, anyways, I'm just in my mind I'm getting into clown.

[47:44] Sean Chandler: No, I completely agree with you.

[47:46] Douglas Widick: So there's a dance where the flying toaster dances with an audience member who is Buddy Holly. Um so that is a long improvised moment. I'm sorry I don't mean to keep laughing, but it is funny. Hey, come see it. I have a pro preview performance this Wednesday at The Tank, and then um I'll spill the beans after Edinburgh. I'm doing five nights at the Soho Playhouse in the Huron downstairs. So that'll be from October 1st to the 5th.

[48:15] Sean Chandler: Nice. Yes. Congratulations on those dates. That's great.

[48:19] Douglas Widick: That's very, very, very cool. Um now tell us the difference. Tell us about Edinburgh and and I believe it's called Eat Edfest.

[48:29] Douglas Widick: Uh so yeah, Edfest is a preview festival at The Tank, which is a fabulous non-profit theater space here in Midtown. Yeah, I think it's also affiliated with the chain. I think they're both under one umbrella nonprofit, but I could be wrong about that.

[48:45] Douglas Widick: Uh they are on the same building. Have you been to The Tank?

[48:48] Sean Chandler: I have been to The Tank.

[48:49] Douglas Widick: Okay, yes, yes. So actually, The Tank, funnily enough, is where North Coast did our first ever weekly run 14 years ago or 13 years ago.

[48:58] Sean Chandler: Cool.

[48:58] Douglas Widick: Um, and so The Tank's so supportive, and Jess Ducey, a producer and stage manager, is producing this festival of fringe previews leading up to people leaving for the UK. And so I wanted to get a rep of me having to put it up in another space because it's important to not get too comfortable. And I was getting a little comfortable at The Rat. And so my stage manager sent this to me, and my stage manager was like, hey, hey, hey, you should do this. And I was like, this scares me. That's probably a good thing. And then so I submitted, got in, and I'm doing it this Wednesday at 9:30, um, as a part of Edfest, which is a festival of Edinburgh fringe previews.

[49:40] Sean Chandler: Wow, cool. Uh, for the record, it is July 14th as we're recording this, just so just for people in their dates.

[49:47] Douglas Widick: Yes.

[49:48] Sean Chandler: Because sometimes, and hopefully, people will listen to this. Hopefully, people will listen to it right away.

[49:52] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[49:53] Sean Chandler: So we can get, you know, butts in the seats for your show.

[49:55] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[49:56] Sean Chandler: Which is really, really important. But also, if people are listening to two and six months down the line, then I don't want them. I, you know, there might be mental conflicts with the dates, so yeah.

[50:07] Douglas Widick: Um, that's just me being persnickety about it.

[50:10] Sean Chandler: I love it.

[50:12] Douglas Widick: Please be persnickety.

[50:13] Sean Chandler: I try. Careful what you wish for this.

[50:16] Douglas Widick: So the person's nickname. Um, so uh uh what would you like to see? And I know this is a lot to ask after I know that you you've okay, because you have actually told us some of the places where the show is going to go, like even after Edinburgh, and and which is great, and and I'm I'm glad you did. What is like what would be the ultimate for you to have Paperclip? Like, what's the ultimate venue? Like, what's your ultimate vision of Paperclip? Now, I know we all want to go to Broadway for sure, and I I I think it's very, very cool that, and I think this could very definitely do it. But in your mind, what do you what do you think is what does that look like for you?

[51:06] Douglas Widick: Yeah. For this show specifically, I I think I'm too keenly aware of how expensive everything is. I just listened to that big Freakonomics episode. Did you listen to that about how expensive it is to produce Broadway? You know, but a solo performer is the ultimate because you don't have all the same overhead that you know a 16-person orchestra and a 20-person ensemble costs. So there's part of me that's like, I can take this one all the way. But then there's this other part of me that's like, wait, a really fun off-Broadway run that I can remember for the rest of my life also feels like a really good high point, specifically for this one-person show. Do I want it to go further? Heck yeah. Like I would love that.

But if I can say that I had an off-Broadway run that I'm super proud of, I think that is a really big um, you know, that is a big check mark for me. So I'm not sure I could see it going all the way to the Great White Way. I'd love to do it. I'd love to take it all the way there. Like the Jeffrey Sellers, tell me what to change about it or tell me what to do to get um a show that can go all the way the way you know Alex Edelman or Mike Birbiglia, these comedians take their show all the way to Broadway. Um, but the fact that I'm getting to go to a place that inspired me so much as a young performer, the Soho Playhouse, that is definitely a dream come true as well.

[52:38] Sean Chandler: Very, very cool. That's a great answer. Love it.

[52:41] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[52:41] Sean Chandler: Um, are there any additional future projects that you'd like to talk about here? I can't imagine that you could fit anything else into your life. But is is there anything else that you would like to talk about or promote?

[52:58] Douglas Widick: Um honestly, this is taking up my entire bandwidth. I would love to just say that if you're ever in need of a recording studio in Dumbo, I have all the types of projects in my under my roof. And so Sweet Tea Studio, S-U-I-T-E, like a hotel suite, T-E-A studio. And you can follow both Paperclip and Sweet Tea Studio on Instagram. But my besides that, my plate is full. Paperclip musical, Sweet Tea Studio, and DouglasWidick.com are the order of the day.

[53:38] Sean Chandler: Wow. I can imagine that and could not blame you. It would be like, no, no, no more, I can't do any more.

[53:45] Douglas Widick: Yeah.

[53:46] Sean Chandler: Yeah. It could be so much, particularly when it's like, okay, having to pull out of it. It's so dramatic what I'm saying because of this guy singing on the code.

[53:58] Douglas Widick: I love it. It's my background. It's counterpoint. It's like a slow motion machine gun, like, whoa!

[54:04] Sean Chandler: Exactly. But just the it takes so much energy to just say, okay, I'm doing this now, and now I'm doing this, because I'm not getting this anymore, but yeah, but you're doing it. And I think a lot of that comes with um just really hard work and focus and and uh uh also uh artistic maturity in I I just I just I really see that so much in you. It's it's cool. It's it's it's nice to see.

[54:32] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[54:33] Sean Chandler: You're welcome. Um now we're gonna wrap up. Before we do, can you give our audience your social media information so they can keep up with you? I know you just gave us a couple of websites just now, but if you have like one connection, like one point of connection that houses all of your social media, sometimes that's helpful.

[54:53] Douglas Widick: Yeah. Like on I under what you have a website, I know because I looked at it. So I got your resume, but can people connect to that or are there one or two places that are ideal?

[55:03] Douglas Widick: Yeah, the best is Instagram at Douglas Widick.

[55:06] Sean Chandler: Oh, okay.

[55:07] Douglas Widick: Yeah, that is the hub of all things me.

[55:10] Sean Chandler: Okay. Right. Very, very cool. That's nice. Um, well, Douglas, it's been great talking to you again for the third time, and and hopefully not the last. And I I really appreciate you being on the show. You've been amazing, and I think it's just this this new show sounds fun and and interesting and also uh thought-provoking, too.

[55:34] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[55:35] Sean Chandler: Yeah, you're welcome. And it and and the little retro too, because I do remember clipping out that you've explained who he was.

[55:41] Douglas Widick: Yes.

[55:42] Sean Chandler: But uh, you know, because so much computerized technology just replaces one thing with another with another with another and the flying toasters, I remember all that too.

[55:50] Douglas Widick: Yeah. I think it's very cool, and I just really wish you like so many broken legs with your show. It's gonna be so wonderful, and I'm glad that you get a chance to take it to Edinburgh. That's like such a huge thing. For those of you who don't who are in podcast line who aren't aware of what it is, um, it is it is like a huge achievement. So congratulations on that.

[56:18] Douglas Widick: Thank you.

[56:18] Sean Chandler: Um I just wish you many broken legs for all of the wonderful work in the future. And um I would hope that uh we get to see you again. I mean, not immediately because it sounds like you haven't time for nothing else, but maybe maybe you you know when you come back we can uh we could do a uh sort of a moratorium on you know that sounds fun.

[56:41] Douglas Widick: Yeah, that'd be fun.

[56:41] Sean Chandler: That'd be very cool. So um, Douglas, thank you very much uh for being on Your Program Is Your Ticket? You know, you've done a great job, and I'm I'm super proud of you.

[56:50] Douglas Widick: Oh, thank you so much. I always have a blast on your podcast.

[56:52] Sean Chandler: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's great. I appreciate the compliment. Well, folks, the 11 o'clock number has been sung and the bows have been taken, so it's time to lower the curtain. Once again, a big thanks to my guest, theater creator, writer, performer Douglas Widick of Paperclip. And a major thanks to all you listeners. I appreciate you. You can find more episodes of Your Program Is Your Ticket on the Broadway Podcast Network, who has honored me with a place on their incredible theater podcast platform. Broadway Podcast Network is all about creating an engaging, immersive, user-friendly experience where theater stories of all kinds can be easily found, shared, and enjoyed. Please visit them on my landing page at bpn.fm/ypit.

And again, that's bpn.fm/ypit. Your Program Is Your Ticket is also on Facebook at Facebook.com/yourprogramisyourticket. I'm on Instagram at Your Program Is Your Ticket. I'm on YouTube at Your Program Is Your Ticket. And pretty much anywhere else that you get your podcast. I'm kind of everywhere. FYI, I appreciate all good ratings, reviews, and subscriptions. Folks, take a little time to visit theater websites and see what they have to offer and see their shows. Give them all great ratings and reviews, and most importantly, donate, donate, donate. As always, thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. And remember, theater is for everyone.