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[0:02] Sean Chandler: Theater people, and welcome to Your Program Is Your Ticket. My name is Sean Chandler and I'll be your host. Your Program Is Your Ticket is a discussion of smaller theater works and the people and organizations that make it happen. As many of you know, Your Program Is Your Ticket is a helpful system where your program is literally your ticket to get into the theater in smaller, more intimate productions. It's these works we like to highlight, and it's our goal on this show to feature as many of these productions as possible while still discussing the biggies. I love theater and see as much as I can wherever I go. During the travels of the production of my husband and my play at The Flash, I've met many wonderful people from all over the world in the theater community, and it is my honor to bring them on as guests to the show.

Now, normally we come to you from Midtown Manhattan in New York City where I live, but this episode has me in Chicago working on my new show, We the People, The Anti-Trump Musical, which begins performances on Friday, January 26, 2018. So if you're in Chicago, I want you better come see it. You know, in out of allegiance to me. It's being produced by Chicago's Flying Elephant Productions. Now tonight's guest is the artistic director of Flying Elephant Productions, DC Cathro. DC is also one of the most talented writers I have ever had the pleasure of seeing on stage and reading, because I read some of his work every now and then. And he is a major asset to the theater community and an all-around real sweet guy.

So I'll be bringing DC on in just a few minutes, but first up, I'd like to talk to all the future writers out there and ask them to make a New Year's resolution, or at least a goal. You probably have already made all your New Year's resolutions, so set a goal. This is a goal that I'm sure my guest definitely can speak on. I know because we've discussed it before, and he's a great writer and he hustles like all good writers do. As a writer myself, who is getting a little traction in my fledgling career, one of the most common questions newer writers ask me is how do I get my work read or seen? Here's the answer. Submit. Just submit. Submit, submit, submit. When did you, and I have this in quotes, finish a project because they really are never kind of ever finished until they're up on the Broadway stage.

Once you finish a project, find ways to submit work to as many organizations as possible. Now I usually stick with three venues. The first is script contests or competitions. Now, search the internet for these contests, they're all over. And when I started submitting, there weren't nearly as many, but now there are tons. There are a multitude of them available, and many cumulative sites that list the contests, their dates, and their themes. These are so, so, so helpful. And most of them are free because they're making their money off of advertising from companies that are advertising on their websites. Here's a little bit of controversy about script contests and competitions. Some of them you have to pay for, and some are free.

Now, I'm usually okay with paying if there's an explanation for what the fee covers. Some are not, that's your call. If I go on and I see that they use it, it's not too much, and I think the most I've ever paid is like, I don't know, $50. But you know, that goes to supplies and I don't know, maybe even a salary for probably only one of the people who works for the theater company. Then I'll usually pay it. But there are people who sort of stand on principle that they shouldn't have to pay for script contests. That is completely up to you. There are plenty that are free, and there are plenty that are paid. So that's your call. That's how I got started with my script at The Flash, entered it in the Pride Phones and Plays competition, and then it was selected as one of the finalists, and then it won the competition, and then they produced it.

So if I didn't make that jump and actually submit to there, then I wouldn't be sitting where I am right now. So there we go. Also, the second option is theater companies and ensembles will often have open requests. So you can search the internet for theater companies or ensembles requesting works that line up with the topic of your piece. Now, that's really important. Keep it to the theme. And the reason why is that you don't want to inundate the theater company and ensemble with work that's inapplicable to their creative mission. So do a little research on what it is that they're looking for. If it's a theater ensemble that works on religious pieces, you don't want to be sending them something with lots of sex and violence, and or something along those lines.

I'm sure that's an arguable statement. But anyway, so that's sort of an example that I have. There are a lot of reading involved within the members of the company or the ensemble, and trust me, I know because I've read for a lot of competitions, and they take them seriously and they read all of them. And they had the work already, then they wouldn't be asking you to submit. So make sure that it is appropriate for that particular ensemble so you know that they know that you've respected their creative mission statement and really haven't wasted their time. Last is festivals. Much like contests or theater company ensemble open requests, these can be found by searching the internet. There are many, many different theater festivals, so please look for one again that fits your script.

This is a great way to get a new work on its feet. And that's because most festivals have not just full productions, but they also will feature a reading series. So they'll actually take your script and they'll bring in some of their actors and they'll read it out loud so you can hear it read if you're not already doing that in a writer's group, which is another thing that I encourage, but that's another topic. So readings are also very exciting and fun to go to just as a viewer or a listener. It's great to hear new work and hear new writers and new writers' voices, and you never know where what you're seeing will be going. You never know if two years down the line you're seeing something or you're reading something, you're seeing a reading of something that is going to become a really big hit.

That has happened a couple times with things that I've seen. So there you go. Now here's a few tips. Do not submit blindly to production companies or studios. They will simply stamp return to sender and send it back to you, like if you send them a script, or send you a letter indicating that they did not read your work, and this is the reason why is because they fear copyright infringement. They fear that if you send a script and they haven't rejected it and said they haven't read it, then they make a movie or they do a play that is similar to your script, they're afraid that there can be copyright infringement lawsuits and things like that. So that's what they'll do. Like a long time ago, I co-wrote a movie script, and I brought, I was just so young and so green about all of this, and I printed up like I don't know, something like 200 copies and sent them all out to all these companies, and they all came back return to sender like this.

So I spent all that money and time and effort and paper, and it was to no avail. So, anyways, don't do that. Also be as professional as possible when you're submitting. Put out your best product and be thorough with what the entity is requesting. Look for typos, read through your stuff, and try to just make it as professional as possible and be upstanding. If they're asking for something, don't make them have to come back to you and ask you again, unless it's part of the system that you've read 10 pages and they want more or whatever. So just be professional. That's always good. I mean, you know, I can't tell you how many times I picked up a script and went, oh my god, I don't even read this because it's just a mess.

So also, if you're rejected, don't take it personally. There are many reasons for rejection, and I know many well-established writers who are still rejected over and over and over again, and it just, it's just part of what will happen, and it will never stop happening. So just keep trying. Just submit, just submit, submit, submit. Don't keep your work in a drawer. Try, be driven, and persevere. That's the other thing that that's the other piece of advice that I give is you just have to be driven. If not, then forget it, because there's too many people who want what you want too. So there you go. Wow, that was a long intro topic. So now it's time to bring on my guest. Folks, please welcome to the show the artistic director of Chicago's Flying Elephant Productions, DC Cathro. Hi, DC, and welcome to Your Program Is Your Ticket.

[9:03] DC Cathro: Thank you very much. It's great to be here.

[9:05] Sean Chandler: It's my pleasure, and thanks for being my first guest of 2018.

[9:09] DC Cathro: Oh, thank you.

[9:10] Sean Chandler: And in fact, I was sitting here listening to you and thinking, we could talk about this subject for another three or four hours.

[9:16] DC Cathro: No kidding, right?

[9:18] Sean Chandler: Yeah, exactly. Oh my god. Do you have anything else that you want to add to what I was saying?

[9:24] DC Cathro: I mean, you did a very good job covering it, but yeah, I probably spend as much time submitting as I do writing sometimes. Like there are times when I just go through and I'll send out, you know, 20 or 30 submissions in a day and just crank through a whole lot of them, and it feels so good to do that.

[9:45] Sean Chandler: It does. It feels great to get out.

[9:48] DC Cathro: I got a rejection about five minutes before you showed up here, actually.

[9:53] Sean Chandler: Oh, you did?

[9:53] DC Cathro: Yeah, yeah, I did.

[9:54] Sean Chandler: Well, non-congratulations.

[9:55] DC Cathro: Yes, exactly. On congratulations. You get used to that too.

[9:58] Sean Chandler: Oh, totally, yeah. We all get rejected all the time. Now, do you have a specific system? Because what I'll do, because I usually submit about every three months, and I get like one of those accordion file folders that has all those different slots in it, and I'll just put each project in there and just whatever I submitted. Did you have a system for that, or is it just, you know, I just let it fly?

[10:21] DC Cathro: I yeah, I just throw things out into the world and cross my fingers. I used to have a spreadsheet, and I just kind of lost track on using it. I should go back and make it again, but it was very detailed. It was, you know, the company, when the submissions were due, when they were supposed to contact me. It had all the information all in a grid, and I used it for like one round of submissions, and then I just kind of went by the wayside and now I just send stuff out. And I'm sure that I've submitted to some things more than once. If they look familiar, I kind of try to keep track mentally, but it doesn't always work that way.

[11:00] Sean Chandler: Right. Well, I'm sure that they have a lot of turnover with their readers. And so, and you never know. I mean I would recommend actually keeping better track of submissions because I feel like, you know, I wouldn't like a lot of companies will have a yearly contest and I'll send something one year and then I and I don't remember what I sent the next year. And I might have sent them the same thing or I might not have. So yeah, every once in a while I kind of kick myself for not writing things down like that.

[11:30] DC Cathro: Well, we're fortunate now because most submissions are sent electronically.

[11:36] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[11:37] DC Cathro: So we can go back through our email and, you know, typing in the little search engine with sent and provided that we haven't gotten a new computer and, you know, had our email obliterated, but that's a lot more helpful because I remember the days where you had to submit, like I was saying before, everything had to print it out, right? And then you put and then you filled out your application, you sent a check.

[11:59] Sean Chandler: Yeah, you know, now you pay with PayPal if you're paying and you send a PDF of it, and people think that that's high maintenance, but they should have been doing it the other way.

[12:09] DC Cathro: Well, another thing that I read on a blog, another writer has a blog that I subscribe to, and she recommends keeping different versions of your script so you're all set and you don't have to keep making them. So you want a version with all of your information on the title page and all the page numbers and the title and written by on every, you know, as a footer on every page. Then you want a blind copy because some theaters don't want any information about the author because they want to read the scripts blind and judge without anything, and then the first 10 pages, because a lot of companies will ask for 10 pages, and if they want to read more, then they'll let you know. And so I have all my files all set up, so I have the one the title by DC Cathro, and then I just have the title, and that's the blind copy, and then I have to title 10 pages for every one of my scripts. So I'm ready to go. And then a blind title for 10 pages as well.

[13:08] Sean Chandler: Oh no, I've never had that actually.

[13:10] DC Cathro: Wow.

[13:11] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[13:12] DC Cathro: I guess they would. I guess they might, but no, that hasn't come up.

[13:15] Sean Chandler: Well, they all seem to be different. That's another thing we should probably mention on here. Be really, really meticulous in it, and just go through everything like three or four times because it's almost like a different, even if you do, I mean because blind and not blind is pretty standard, but it seems like each submission element has its own set of tiny details.

[13:41] DC Cathro: Yes.

[13:42] DC Cathro: Yeah, like they'll say we they want the contact information, a synopsis, and a cast breakdown on one page in a separate file, or on one page in the same file.

[13:53] DC Cathro: And in yeah, there are lots of rules you have to kind of pay attention to, but having your files ready will save time and effort on your part if you take a little initiative before you start sending stuff out, yeah.

[14:09] Sean Chandler: Well, um I am not surprised that you don't keep your spreadsheet anymore because you are so busy that is true I mean you are the artistic director at Flying Elephant Productions um tell us about Flying Elephant Productions and how the company came to be um well Flying Elephant is a new company uh it's starting here in Chicago with uh Leo Schwartz who is a collaborator of ours I know yeah we go way back and he's by the way he's interview episode one of this show.

[14:44] DC Cathro: And uh he's and he's the uh co-creator of We the People opening later this month.

[14:50] Sean Chandler: I know that show too exactly um in fact that's yeah that's when we met back during the um Pride Festival and we saw At the Flash.

[14:59] DC Cathro: I actually went to that festival and watched At the Flash with Leo.

[15:03] Sean Chandler: Really?

[15:04] DC Cathro: And we talked to you after the show and told you how how much we loved it.

[15:07] Sean Chandler: Oh my gosh.

[15:08] DC Cathro: Yeah.

[15:09] Sean Chandler: That was like such a whirlwind.

[15:10] DC Cathro: I barely remember I really do.

[15:12] Sean Chandler: I don't believe it.

[15:13] DC Cathro: Wow.

[15:13] Sean Chandler: So um so there um you know the sad thing is there are lots of theater companies that sort of come and go. Um and I I know especially I just got to Chicago a few months ago and so I'm still kind of getting my feet wet out here. I came from the Washington DC area.

[15:27] DC Cathro: Right.

[15:29] Sean Chandler: Um I was very very entrenched in the theater community out there. Um and it's it's uh there are lots of new companies that spring up but the Flying Elephant um I think the great thing about it is that we're focusing a lot on new works and keeping the new works going after we get them produced here and trying to send them out to other companies and and further their life um because that's something that is not really done or thought about very often.

[16:02] DC Cathro: Typically a you know a company will do a show and then they move on to another show. But one of the things that Leo really wants to strive to do with shows that we produce is get more productions of them in other places so they will have a long life out out in the theater world.

[16:23] Sean Chandler: Well that's an artist and writer's perspective of of the after of the work that's so that's wonderful because it it gives the artist writer hope that after this they're gonna have somebody on their side who is going to then continue to promote the work and not just sort of like drop them.

[16:49] DC Cathro: Exactly it's it's almost like an advocacy program in a way which is which is unusual and kind of great you know because we you know typically when a small company produces shows they do things that they're passionate about that they really feel strongly about and so we want to see things move on and and blossom in a in other venues in other cities.

[17:14] Sean Chandler: So Leo and I have both built sort of a network of theaters that we've worked with and we're already sort of telling people you know we we're working on new projects and we want you to to know what's exciting down the pipeline. And so it's really exciting.

[17:33] DC Cathro: That's a great creative mission to create the new works and then and then nurture them afterwards.

[17:40] Sean Chandler: I I I think that's amazing. Now talk about your upcoming first season.

[17:46] DC Cathro: Well, we the people, obviously, is our inaugural production opening later this month. And oh, you know it wasn't, but yeah.

[17:58] Sean Chandler: Um and then we're gonna be doing a show called uh Defacing Michael Jackson, which is uh written by Orin Squire, um, which is about a Michael Jackson fan club, and it's an African American group of kids who are planning this Michael Jackson sort of mural that's gonna go up in town, and then uh a white kid moves to town and things get shook up.

[18:27] Sean Chandler: We'll put it that way.

[18:28] DC Cathro: Wow. Yeah, it's it's a fantastic, really a fantastic script. It's a lot of fun. Um how'd you find that?

[18:37] DC Cathro: Uh Leo found that one. Leo was out um talking to people and looking at things that caught his interest, and he found the script and passed it along to me, and I was like, let's do it. This is a really it's a really interesting show. And plus, yeah, uh to be blunt. I'm a big fan of 80s music. So um so yeah, it's uh it's really exciting. We're looking forward to to diving into that. We do not have our third production nailed down yet. We're looking at a few different options, but we're gonna we're gonna try to do two to three shows a season to start out and then hopefully expand uh as we get uh more solid ground.

[19:19] Sean Chandler: Are you looking into doing uh readings and and and things like that? I mean, I know it's just your first season, so you're you're nailing things down right now, but is that something that you're uh you have plans to do as well?

[19:32] DC Cathro: Yeah, yeah we do. We wanna we want to have some sort of developmental series and you know read read scripts that we we think might you know benefit from being heard out loud and and give some feedback to the playwrights. We I love doing readings. I I absolutely love I love attending them. I love being in them. I love watching mine get read.

[19:55] Sean Chandler: Yeah that's my favorite.

[19:57] DC Cathro: But um but yeah I love I love doing readings too. I mean being in a reading is is if you're if you're an actor out there you should definitely dive in especially um you know bigger city like Chicago and do you think you're an actor as well right?

[20:15] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[20:16] DC Cathro: Okay. Yeah I started I actually started as an actor uh um and then I've sort of branched out into directing and I've done tech work. I've done a little bit of everything.

[20:26] Sean Chandler: So you're talking about like if you're in a in a bigger city and you're starting out there are lots of um there are lots of play reading series where they'll actually ask actors to just come and sort of be on standby and they'll have people and they'll just cast you right there and you read the script blind.

[20:43] DC Cathro: No way I've never heard of that wow.

[20:45] DC Cathro: In fact um there's one coming up here in a week or two that I'm kind of intrigued by I think I want to go um I I don't know if I'm gonna dive into the acting part or just watch this time but I wanna I want to check it out. But yeah, every once in a while you'll find uh companies that'll do it that way, which I think is fantastic. Um it can also be a train wreck. I've been to auditions um for play reading festivals where they will just cast people in your in your play and have them read it. And you know, depending on who they pick, you might get stuck with somebody who's not as shining as they could be.

[21:29] Sean Chandler: Um but it's always exciting. You never know what you're gonna get.

[21:32] DC Cathro: Like you said, so um, so I'm looking forward to stuff like that. And I would love to to have stuff like that with the flying elephant too. I would love for people to come and sort of you know, join us as a group and just dive in and tackle some some scripts and and uh and just you know it it's filling a room with creative people i is never a a bad thing. You know, it's there's something will something positive will come out of it, whether it's you know the the the author hearing their words for the first time and figuring out a way around a problem or an actor, you know, getting their sea legs and bringing something new that the author hadn't thought about. That happens all the time.

[22:19] Sean Chandler: I love that. So plus if if you're a new actor, and particularly if you're new in the city, it's a good way to start making connections.

[22:29] DC Cathro: Yeah. You know, you might not be cast in in in a play or a musical right off the bat, but if you start putting yourself out there and make yourself available and people see you and hear hear you in readings, um they automatically go, talent.

[22:46] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[22:46] DC Cathro: And I could use them in this part. Um, so I I I I think that's terrific advice.

[22:52] Sean Chandler: Yeah, and I I haven't auditioned since I got out here yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

[22:57] DC Cathro: Oh, you haven't uh auditioned as an actor.

[22:59] Sean Chandler: As an actor out in Chicago, I have not auditioned yet, but um I'm I'm getting I'll get I'll get there. Now that the holidays are over, I can start thinking about that.

[23:09] DC Cathro: Well, sure, yeah, absolutely.

[23:10] Sean Chandler: And and you're busy also being an artistic director.

[23:13] DC Cathro: Yeah, yeah. You know, that's that's um and writing and living and making money and surviving and and and you know, and moving to a completely you know new city and where it's one degree.

[23:29] Sean Chandler: Oh well, fortunately I'm I'm actually in Chicago right now, and I missed the blizzard bomb that we had a couple days ago that just basically turned out to be a regular blizzard.

[23:42] DC Cathro: So I don't know.

[23:44] Sean Chandler: It's but I come from California where it's probably 73 degrees, if not 83 degrees today, so I hear you.

[23:51] DC Cathro: But then again, you came from Maryland, Maryland, where yeah, it gets really cold.

[23:56] Sean Chandler: It gets pretty cold, not like not like a one degree cold, but yeah, it gets pretty chilly out there.

[24:01] DC Cathro: Yeah, exactly. They have more snow than we do right now.

[24:05] Sean Chandler: I'm not I'm not surprised with the with the blizzard bomb or the bomb bomb blizzard or whatever it is. Um cool. So uh now on your program is your ticket. I like to um ask my guests about their own personal feelings about the state of theater. So are you ready to roll with that?

[24:24] DC Cathro: Oh, sure.

[24:25] Sean Chandler: Okay, groovy. Um are there any particular messages and themes that speak strongly to you in the projects you specifically select to write or produce or act in?

[24:35] DC Cathro: I uh you know, I was thinking about and I guess one sort of recurring theme that I'm drawn to is identity. Like I tend to write a lot of things about how people see themselves versus how other people see them, and um and it's I I find myself drawn to plays about names for some reason. I because it's such a you know an integral part of your identity.

[25:05] Sean Chandler: Um like simple, okay.

[25:08] DC Cathro: For example, I have this play called Chai, which is about an African-American teenager who wants to change his name because he doesn't like his name.

[25:19] Sean Chandler: Um is his name Chai or is it Chai what he wants to change at?

[25:22] DC Cathro: Chai is his nickname. His real name is Mordecai.

[25:26] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[25:28] DC Cathro: And so he goes by Chai, which is the fast the last four letters of Mordecai.

[25:32] Sean Chandler: Right.

[25:33] DC Cathro: Um, but he's you know, he's bullied because the kids who know his real name, uh, you know, it's just it's part of who he is, but he doesn't he doesn't want it, he doesn't like it. So his girlfriend does like a Kickstarter to raise the money so he can change his name legally.

[25:52] Sean Chandler: And really, yeah.

[25:54] DC Cathro: And so you know, I got the idea because there was this thing on NPR about this white man named Jamal who was sending out resumes and could not get interviews because he had the name Jamal and you know, people thought he was black. And so I just kind of thought, well, that's a really interesting, I'll twist that around and I'll play with that idea. And so um, so came up with Chai, which had a a reading last summer, which went pretty well, so I'm I'm submitting that whenever I get the chance, throwing that out into the world. But but things like that really intrigue me.

[26:35] Sean Chandler: Wow. I've seen your work on stage and I've read your work as well. One of the things that I love about your writing is that it goes it it is so like laser-like into character. I don't know if I'm saying that correctly, but I it's not even so much as being the fly on the wall, like watching what's happening to these people. It's almost like being the wall. I don't know if that makes any sense, but but I just I feel like you really like have this great talent for going and saying exactly what they're what they're thinking.

[27:25] DC Cathro: The the line is always really honest and it's always really direct. There's no um there's no artistic writer's conceit about it at all. I mean, it feels natural, it feels smart. Um I mean, I really I I really admire that in in your dialogue. I mean, I write, I mean I ri I read it and I'm like, oh my god, you know, sometimes my writing is like very big and there's like it's flowery and themes and messages and stuff, and that's there for yours, but it's just so true. It's it's amazing. How did you develop into that?

[28:05] DC Cathro: You know, honestly, I think it's because I started as an actor. And you know, in in my I was an actor for years and years and years before I started writing. And so when I did start writing, I would focus a lot on how I thought the the dialogue would work and how it would be coming out of an actor's mouth.

[28:27] DC Cathro: And um, so you know, there are lots of writers out there who have never been on stage before, and I think that having that experience really benefited, benefits me.

[28:40] DC Cathro: Um, because well, I mean, well, like I was saying, I have a lot of I have a lot of experience as a director, and uh I've stage managed and set designed and run the soundboard. I've done a little bit of everything, and all of that really influences how I work because here's an example.

[29:04] DC Cathro: I went to a reading of this one play um back in Maryland, and it was a really interesting script, but it was simply unproducible. You know, it was it was it would have cost millions of dollars. Uh you needed like a specific car on stage, a convertible, like a 66 Thunderbird. I think I think it it was called like 66 T-Bird or T Bird 66 or something like that, but you needed that specific car, and it had to, it couldn't really be faked because you had to stand on it, you had to open and close the the hood. Uh uh it was a screenplay. I mean, to be blunt, it was it was it was a screenplay because it it was a great conceit, but there was just so much technical there, it was way too technical for any small theater company to be able to to produce it to mount it.

[29:59] DC Cathro: Um and that's what I brought up, you know, when they were asking for feedback. I was I you know my concern is that you know it's it's a wonderful script, but nobody's ever going to be able to do it. And that's one of the things I try to keep in mind. I try to keep in mind, you know, the actors have to say these words. The theater has to have this furniture for this being, you know, this um, you know, I I want to make I want to write things that speak to people, but I also want to write things that could actually work on stage, it could actually be produced.

[30:33] DC Cathro: Um I think that well one of the things one of the things I say is is that you have to write with uh with maybe 30% of your vision being of that of a producer. Yeah, you really do. I mean, unless you're somebody who they will produce anything that you write, and you're of in that sort of portion of the stratosphere, um, but that's not really what we talk about a lot on this show.

[31:03] Sean Chandler: Right.

[31:04] DC Cathro: But if you're if you're uh a writer who's less known and you're trying to get your stuff, you know, sort of going through the canon hall uh up to that level, I would think that I would think putting a car on stage would not be smart.

[31:19] DC Cathro: Or putting that in my play, that it's required the real car is on stage. Yeah, it's just it's it's a very large obstacle to getting your work produced.

[31:29] Sean Chandler: Wow, wow.

[31:29] DC Cathro: So you're you rely a lot on your on your um background.

[31:34] DC Cathro: Yeah, definitely. My history comes into to to play all the time. And I, you know, I actually um I went to a reading last summer. I had the the reading series that did Chai. Um this gentleman who wrote that piece had a different piece, and and it was it was lovely, it was absolutely lovely. So it was nice to see that a young guy too, like you just got a college year two years ago or something like that, and he had a really so it was nice to see his development. It was nice to watch him, you know, do something else that was producible, and uh it just it was a really lovely evening.

[32:12] Sean Chandler: So cool, very good. Um, what do you think is an important direction theater is taking right now?

[32:18] DC Cathro: Um well I the biggest thing, of course, is you know, social awareness and uh yeah it it's kind of theater is always you know holding up a mirror to society, and indeed that's kind of a the biggest thing that's happening not only in theater but in everything, you know, with the country being in such a state.

[32:45] DC Cathro: Um much like the show opening at the end of the month, right? You know, I mean it's it's important, and theater is a great way to express your concerns and a great way for audiences to come in and you know feel that way. A lot of people are afraid to express their feelings right now because it can be dangerous. I mean, it literally it has become dangerous for some people to express themselves. And you know, we and we're all trying to figure out how this happened. When did this happen? Why is this happening? We're in a state of K.

[33:27] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[33:27] DC Cathro: And it's absolute. I'm still I'm still just sitting here baffled that we're where we are right now.

[33:37] Sean Chandler: Right.

[33:38] DC Cathro: How did this happen? How did this I I mean it's I usually get me babbling, and now I can't even find the words to say it's so baffling to me. We don't have a chance to take a breath.

[33:52] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[33:52] DC Cathro: You know, every day uh we wake up and it's something new.

[33:56] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[33:57] DC Cathro: Or you have a banner day like today when you know Fire and Fury is released, this this book, and and you just you just can't seem to catch up. And typically I think with art, you usually, you know, it happens and then a little time goes by and then you write about it and then it's produced or it's you know painted about or what have you. But in this case, you just can't keep up.

[34:20] Sean Chandler: No, no, it's crazy.

[34:23] DC Cathro: You know, to on a personal, you know, level, you have had to do lots of rewrites for the show. I mean, simply because things change, you know, at the drop of a hat.

[34:36] DC Cathro: Well, this is gonna be a whole new version of the show that people haven't seen before. Oh, yeah, and we've had to, I mean, Leo and I have had to put pieces or moments in the show that we can use just to make sure that the show is current. We've really had to pay attention to that.

[34:55] Sean Chandler: So yeah, I I totally get it. The other thing that I've seen in actually in in the submitting process is there are theaters saying we specifically want comedies because we want people to escape. We don't want people to come in and think about nuclear war. We so we would like your comedies. Send us comedies right now. That's actually a lot of people have given that answer.

[35:19] DC Cathro: Yeah.

[35:19] Sean Chandler: They have. They're like, you know, we're we have to deal with this all day. And it's in our face all the time. So there is the amount of escapism that people are looking for. Very very common answer as well. Are there any particular shows on your radar of which you're not associated? Like I know you're associated obviously with with we the people but are there any other shows that are out there that you're aware of that exemplify this vision or direction of theater?

[35:49] DC Cathro: Oh gosh there are lots of them but typically you know uh I go through like the theater listings when I have downtime and I'm like I want to go see that. I want to go see that. Because I I try to like you said I try to see as much as I can whenever I can. And there's just so much especially now in Chicago, you know it's it's a huge theater town and I'm barely scratched the surface but it's been I've seen some really interesting things. I've seen some really great things. I've seen some really great performances in some not so great things.

[36:26] Sean Chandler: Yeah yeah you know and so um and it doesn't really matter where you go or what you see something is you know something is gonna be worth it. Something will be worth it. And so I really enjoy going to new venues and going to things I've never seen before and things I have no idea about um is there anything out there that you haven't seen that looks really interesting that you'd like to see?

[36:52] DC Cathro: Oh, there's a whole list. There's a probably a dozen okay there's always stuff coming up. And you know, um, back when I lived in Maryland, I would get to New York fairly regularly, and I would go and see things up there. So and I haven't done I haven't been able to really do that much anymore. So I'm trying to figure out like the big shows I can see out here before they go to New York and and vice versa. And unfortunately, the I think the last thing was that like Jimmy Buffett musical, which I'm not particularly agreed available. Yeah, I have no I'm no real interest in that. I'm much more in 80s pop. Oh, there's a go-go's musical and San Francisco. I'm dying to see the go-go's musical because that's kind of a doing.

[37:39] DC Cathro: Can I brag? Oh no, please. Can I brag?

[37:41] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[37:42] DC Cathro: Um, David and I actually were invited to Vassar College last year to see a reading of it. And it's really, really good.

[37:54] Sean Chandler: Oh no.

[37:55] DC Cathro: Oh my god.

[37:56] Sean Chandler: Well, I'm so excited.

[37:57] DC Cathro: David David loves the go-go's. I mean, he just he he he he totally loves. David is a very smart man.

[38:03] Sean Chandler: Oh, yeah, when he and so we're we're sitting there, and in front of us is Jane Wheedlin.

[38:09] DC Cathro: Oh.

[38:09] Sean Chandler: And then there's I think it's Charlotte, Charlotte Caffey, and then uh who's the drummer? Gina Shock.

[38:14] DC Cathro: Uh huh.

[38:14] Sean Chandler: And Charlotte, um, I believe is the lady who also wrote the musical um uh Lovelace the Rock Opera. Have you heard of that?

[38:24] DC Cathro: I have, yes.

[38:25] Sean Chandler: Okay, I have.

[38:25] DC Cathro: She wrote it and I saw it in LA. So I was in with her when I walked up and I was like, hi, I saw Lovelace the Rock Opera, and I loved it. Because David said she's she's a little, she could be a little, you know, like I'm a go-go, and I don't know who's coming up to me.

[38:40] DC Cathro: Yeah, but she she loved me for saying that. It's so good.

[38:45] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[38:45] DC Cathro: And it's the story of Arcadia. I don't know if you're familiar with that story.

[38:48] Sean Chandler: Oh, really?

[38:49] DC Cathro: The story of Arcadia set to go go's music.

[38:52] Sean Chandler: Oh, yeah.

[38:52] DC Cathro: So it's like this kind of like I want to say like Excalibur, dangerously liaison's time. I don't know what what's that what time of time frame that's called, but story set to the Gogo's music. It's really good.

[39:06] Sean Chandler: Oh, I see.

[39:07] DC Cathro: Yeah, see, that's I'm so excited about that.

[39:09] Sean Chandler: Oh, yeah.

[39:11] DC Cathro: Head over heels.

[39:12] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[39:12] DC Cathro: Oh, okay. So I'm sorry, go on.

[39:15] Sean Chandler: Well, last time I was in London, I did see Viva Forever.

[39:20] DC Cathro: Okay, I have no idea what that is.

[39:22] Sean Chandler: Oh, that's the Spice Girls musical.

[39:24] DC Cathro: Oh my god.

[39:26] Sean Chandler: It's called Viva Forever. It's about this group of teenage girls and they sing and they go on a reality singing contest show, and the producer wants one of them. And of course, you know, they're like, we're gonna break up the group. We can't break up the group, and you know, it's very and it's all spice girl stuff, and so um I'm so jealous. Like, I totally have to go see that.

[39:47] DC Cathro: I'm so jealous.

[39:49] Sean Chandler: I'm so jealous.

[39:50] DC Cathro: Oh well.

[39:53] Sean Chandler: Lucky you.

[39:54] DC Cathro: I know, right? And then it's just up and gone now, and then you get and you get to see it over here. Oh well, such as like Yeah, I was surprised that they didn't do anything with that. They did bring the bodyguard over here, which you know, the bodyguard was actually better than I expected it to be. You know, I I saw it in London.

[40:10] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[40:11] DC Cathro: Um, I and we were there with uh David's sister and brother-in-law for like three weeks. We were in Europe, and she loves the movie. She's not one of those people who goes to theater for the sake of art. She's a regular person who, if she likes the story, she wants to see it. And so I took her to see it. I was really surprised at how much I loved it.

[40:32] Sean Chandler: Yeah, I was I was pleasantly surprised.

[40:34] DC Cathro: Yeah.

[40:35] Sean Chandler: Did you see was it Deborah Cox in the role?

[40:38] DC Cathro: I saw Heather Hedley.

[40:40] Sean Chandler: Oh, I love Heatherley.

[40:43] DC Cathro: And you know what? She Heather Hedley was supposed to be in the London production that I was seeing, but she was on vacation. And we saw her alternate who was still good. Heather Hedley is amazing on stage.

[40:53] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[40:53] DC Cathro: So good.

[40:55] Sean Chandler: Okay, we're we're fangirling right now.

[40:58] DC Cathro: So let's uh let's get your interview back on for you. We can sit here like we could probably sit here all night and talk about it.

[41:09] Sean Chandler: Okay. Uh now, in your opinion, what should every theatrical artist, writer, composer, director, actor, technician, administrator, be doing right now to be relevant and successful in the industry?

[41:21] DC Cathro: Honestly, I would say do all of the above. Do as much as you can. You know, if you're a writer, go out, go out and audition for something. If you're an actor, try writing, try producing, try working backstage, be you know, be a dresser, be a stage manager assistant stage manager. Just the more you can do, the more you can expand your knowledge base on the entirety of theater as opposed to one. Like I was saying before, everything that I've done has influenced my writing in such a way that I it's all been useful, every part of it.

[42:00] Sean Chandler: And cool. I would really recommend doing that. I mean, well, like like you're you're a writer and your husband's an actor.

[42:08] DC Cathro: Right.

[42:08] Sean Chandler: And um, but you he also helped co-write at The Flash, correct?

[42:13] DC Cathro: He did, yes, and so.

[42:15] Sean Chandler: And so I'm sure that his voice lent a lot as an actor, lent a lot to the creative process in the writing as well. Have you ever acted?

[42:25] DC Cathro: No. I'm not a very good actor.

[42:28] DC Cathro: I've done a couple of readings here and there.

[42:31] Sean Chandler: Okay, so that counts.

[42:32] DC Cathro: And then in my writer's group, I'll try to act, but the actors in the writer's group are acting all the time.

[42:40] Sean Chandler: But I mean, even that, even the limited acting that you've done, I'm sure has influenced your writing in some way.

[42:47] DC Cathro: Well, it helps the ear for dialogue.

[42:48] Sean Chandler: Yeah, exactly.

[42:50] DC Cathro: It really does. So that's such smart advice.

[42:54] Sean Chandler: Yeah, and as much as you can do, anything you can dip your foot into, sink your teeth into, there's an analogy bubbling up somewhere. But yeah, the more you can experience, the more it's gonna influence everything else.

[43:11] DC Cathro: Plus, it's always you're establishing connections wherever you go.

[43:15] Sean Chandler: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, and I've, one of the things that David Zach, who's one of my mentors, I consider, is always telling me, always be connecting all the time. Connect, connect, connect, connect, wherever you go, connect with everyone. It's been a really solid piece of advice.

[43:33] DC Cathro: That's true, actually, because one of the shows that I had in the Pride Festival, that David produced, the festival, his sister runs a theater company in Vermont.

[43:45] Sean Chandler: Oh yeah.

[43:46] DC Cathro: And he said, you know, he was like, well, it's not really right for us, but he sent the script up to her, and they produced it last year. And I got a second production out of that. Somebody who was involved took it to another theater company that they worked with, and I had a second production. So two productions in a completely different state from a reading that happened in Chicago for a play that I submitted back when I was living in Maryland.

[44:13] Sean Chandler: Right.

[44:14] DC Cathro: So you never know.

[44:15] Sean Chandler: I mean, that's a great festival. Those are great people. We did out the flash there two years ago. And just nice, wonderful people. I love David's sister. She's really cool, Sharon.

[44:27] DC Cathro: Yeah.

[44:29] Sean Chandler: So is there anything new that you specifically are working on that you'd like to talk about?

[44:37] DC Cathro: A couple things. I'm working on, I just got a commission actually to adapt a book into a play, which is something new for me. This is gonna be an intriguing challenge, simply because I haven't done it before. Like you said, do everything, do it all the above. And you know, in reading the book, it's very sort of expansive, but I have to kind of boil it down and make it producible. Again, I have that whole producible aspect that I have to work on. But yeah, I'm looking forward to diving into that. I'm actually really excited about it. And I have a pretty tight deadline, so it's one of those things where I have to sort of just jump in to the deep end and make it work. But I'm looking forward to it. And then I've got, you know, like six other projects that I've started that I'm trying to chip away at whenever I'm six, oh, if not more. Yeah, I've got all these scripts that I've started, and well, you put me to shame, you really did.

[45:43] Sean Chandler: There's one. You know what I, oh, you know what I did? I don't know if you knew this. I did the 31 Plays in 31 Days. Have you heard about that?

[45:51] DC Cathro: Yes.

[45:52] Sean Chandler: Okay, yeah, that was back in August, I believe it was.

[45:55] DC Cathro: I could never do that.

[45:56] Sean Chandler: I totally did it.

[45:57] DC Cathro: Was it a cool experience?

[45:58] Sean Chandler: It was great. It was absolutely great.

[46:01] DC Cathro: I mean, you know, I think the longest one was like 17 pages, and the shortest one was like two or three. But I was like, every day I'm gonna do this. And they have a website where you submit them so they kind of keep you accountable. And I did it. I did one every day. And then according to the rules, after I read the rule, you know, they're like, you can write 31 plays on the 31st if you want. But I was like, no, I'm gonna do one every day. And I did. And my partner actually gave me these like dice, they're like conversation dice, and so a couple times we would roll these dice and I would use them as my prompt. And sometimes I just had ideas and just cranked them out. But I was writing plays in the car while we were traveling, I was writing plays on the road, I was writing plays, you know, lying in bed before we fell asleep. I was just, it was fantastic. It was so great.

[47:01] Sean Chandler: Oh my gosh, that's it was great. I'm gonna send you the file so you can actually see what I cranked out.

[47:04] DC Cathro: That would be awesome.

[47:06] Sean Chandler: And this, that's the kind of work ethic you need to be an artistic director of theater. You have to want to do it. You have to be passionate about it. It's, you know, we're not in it for the money.

[47:17] DC Cathro: Right, exactly.

[47:18] Sean Chandler: Well, not yet, but eventually. Um, okay, now before I have you give your social media information, um, you want to do a speedrun with me?

[47:26] DC Cathro: Okay.

[47:27] Sean Chandler: Okay. Um, what is your favorite play?

[47:30] DC Cathro: My favorite play ever? Oh gosh. Um, that I was in, or oh, this is not speedy.

[47:40] Sean Chandler: Um, nobody is ever fast with the speed rounds on that.

[47:43] DC Cathro: Oh, okay, good, good. Then I feel like the pressure's. You can come back to it if you want to.

[47:47] DC Cathro: The fave, my favorite play that I've been in is Coyote on a Fence.

[47:47] Sean Chandler: Coyote on a Fence.

[47:52] DC Cathro: That's a Bruce Graham play.

[47:54] Sean Chandler: Oh, so good. It's such a good script.

[47:56] DC Cathro: But that's more as an actor. That's my, um, like the performance I'm most proud of. But it's a fantastic script too.

[48:03] Sean Chandler: Excellent. What's your favorite musical?

[48:06] DC Cathro: Oh, I've, you know, that's kind of a rotating thing. I could do have like top three right now. Hands on a Hard Body. I love Hands on a Hard Body.

[48:12] Sean Chandler: Like that, and that requires a vehicle on stage.

[48:16] DC Cathro: I was gonna say, obviously, you like her car play. Um, I love Chess. I know it's kind of cliche, but I just, I just, I have this production of Chess that's sung entirely in Swedish, and it's beautiful.

[48:32] Sean Chandler: Oh, it's stunning, it's absolutely stunning.

[48:34] DC Cathro: And they put it out on DVD. It's like, it's like the best 50 bucks I ever spent.

[48:38] Sean Chandler: What's your ultimate favorite musical?

[48:41] DC Cathro: Ultimate, ultimate, ultimate, Les Mis.

[48:44] Sean Chandler: Okay, I guess. Okay, we won't tell Leo.

[48:47] DC Cathro: I also love Zombie Prom.

[48:49] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[48:50] DC Cathro: I think somebody else has done Zombie Prom too.

[48:53] Sean Chandler: I love Zombie Prom.

[48:54] DC Cathro: Uh, the favorite director.

[48:56] Sean Chandler: Favorite director.

[48:57] DC Cathro: Yeah, if it's not theater, it can be somebody who's in food.

[49:00] Sean Chandler: Um, you know, I, uh, Fritz Lang. I'm kind of, I've always been sort of fascinated with Fritz Lang. He directed Metropolis and M, and then he, you know, fled Germany to escape the Nazis and ended up in the US doing spaghetti westerns, but he did this whole thing of the De Valkyrie and yeah, it's just stunning, stunning stuff back in the 20s.

[49:29] Sean Chandler: Alrighty, and then do you have a mentor?

[49:31] DC Cathro: Do I have a mentor? Um, you know, I have a few people that have definitely influenced me heavily. Um, the biggest one, his name was Don, and he used to run a theater in Cumberland, Maryland. And I had an internship there out of college, while I was in college, and then out of college, they hired me, and I was doing their graphic design work and posters and playbills and things like that, and then I was working backstage and running the lightboard, and then they started using me in shows and used me as an actor, and I learned so much, you know, just observing how he worked and observing how everybody worked. It was a small equity house, and so they had, you know, people coming in and leaving, coming in and leaving all the time. Um, and so I got to really be entrenched in every aspect of what was going into mounting productions, and it really made me who I am now.

[50:39] Sean Chandler: It really did.

[50:41] DC Cathro: Um, so excellent. Big shout out to Don Wisted.

[50:44] Sean Chandler: There you go.

[50:45] DC Cathro: Very cool. Recently retired, passed the torch.

[50:48] Sean Chandler: So oh, well, good for him.

[50:51] DC Cathro: Yeah, yeah.

[50:51] Sean Chandler: Take a rest, Don. Um, okay, now before we go, give our audience your social media information. If there's one particular site they can go to to connect to everything else, that's great. Or you can just give out.

[51:03] DC Cathro: Okay. Well, um, another thing since we're on the topic of social media. Um, I do have a Facebook page for DC Cathro Playwright, um, which is going to be more about the writing and stuff. It's a recent development, so there's not a lot on there right now, but um, I'm waiting to hear back on some submissions, so my fingers are crossed and I'm gonna knock on wood. Um, but I also recommend the New Play Exchange, which is a website for playwrights where they can sort of archive and catalog their work and make it available to theater companies to peruse. Um, so if you're a member, you can actually go in and read samples. It's got, you know, a bio and a place, you know, where they can contact you or your agent if you have an agent.

Um, it's a really great resource. It's kind of like having a webpage or a website for your playwriting without having to do all of the work and expense of having a web for your playwright, uh, playwright and career. So I really recommend that. That's a New Play Exchange. If you just do a search for DC Cathro, you'll see a whole bunch of, you know, a list of all of my works that I have uploaded. Um, and then if you go into each work, it'll have like a production history or development history of any readings or productions that have been done. It's really, it's a great, it's a great resource. I really, it's like six ninety-nine a year or ten bucks a year. It's pretty cheap, yeah.

[52:38] Sean Chandler: Wow.

[52:38] DC Cathro: Um, that's a good writer's cost.

[52:40] Sean Chandler: Yeah, that's definitely. It's well worth it. Well worth it. I use that all the time.

[52:45] DC Cathro: And Flying is Flying Elephant Productions, Flying Elephant Productions.com.

[52:48] Sean Chandler: Yep.

[52:49] DC Cathro: Okay, cool.

[52:49] Sean Chandler: Very cool. Excellent. Well, thank you for being with me, DC. You have been so informative and so charming as you always are. And I really, really appreciate your take, and I'm super happy that you're my first guest for 2018.

[53:05] DC Cathro: Thank you. I am honored.

[53:06] Sean Chandler: The honor is mine. Um, at the end of each show, I'd like to give shout outs to current productions worth of recommendation. On tonight's episode, I'm recommending an upcoming show here in Chicago, choreographed by the esteemed director of We the People, uh, Derek Van Barham. Um, he is also interviewed on this show. He's on episode 17. Um, he's great, he's really funny and smart. Um, and this show is produced by Black Button Eyes Productions, and it's called Nevermore, The Imaginary Life and Mysterious Death of Edgar Allan Poe by Jonathan Christenson. Here's a description of the current production taken from the Black Button Eyes website. Edgar Allan Poe's life reads like one of his short stories, an unrelenting tale of misery and woe.

His death is also shrouded in mystery. Was he just spectacularly unlucky, or did a supernatural shadow fall over his life? Written and composed by Jonathan Christenson, this Chicago premiere musical weaves fact and fiction into a tapestry of music and poetry. Black Button Eyes Productions brings this show to life under the direction of their producing artistic director, Ed Rutherford, with music direction by Nick Sula and choreography, as I said, by the We the People director, Derek Van Barham. Now, I've been impressed from day one with Derek's work. Now, I'm not bragging here, and even if I take away my own personal experience with Derek as a director and look at his work as an objective theater observer, Derek has a terrific knack for selecting intriguing projects and always brings out the best in his casts and creative teammates.

So you see why I shoot that caveat. So there we go. Um, Nevermore also stars two of my favorite Chicago actors, Kevin Webb, who plays Poe, and has been brilliant in everything I've ever seen him in, from his powerful performance in Assassins to a sensitive and comical turn in my co-writer of We the People's two-time Jeff award-winning smash hit under a rainbow flag, which is now called Honor. He changes the names of his plays a lot. Um, Nevermore also features the incredible Ryan Lanning, who performed the role of Ed Sherko in the musical workshop performance and cast record of Leo and my other musical running a new musical. Ryan has one of the strongest voices I've ever heard with the capability of being commanding one minute and haunting the next. Both of these guys are stars.

[55:36] Sean Chandler: Now, Nevermore begins performances on Friday, January 5th, which is today. It's right now, so cool. And runs until Sunday, January 28th, and it's at the Edge Theater. Maybe it'll get extended. That'll be cool. You can visit www.blackbuttoneyes.com for tickets and information.

[55:54] Sean Chandler: Well, folks, the proverbial 11 o'clock number has been sung and the bows have been taken, so it's time to lower the curtain. I'd like to thank my guest, the sensational DC Cathro. Thank you, DC, you're amazing.

[56:04] DC Cathro: Thank you. My pleasure.

[56:05] Sean Chandler: You can find more episodes of Your Program Is Your Ticket at facebook.com backslash Your Program Is Your Ticket. I'm on Twitter at Program Ticket. The website is Your Program Is Your Ticket.com. And I'm on iTunes and SoundCloud. Rate me and write me a review and subscribe. It's every time you do something like that, it increases my profile. So there you go. Folks, take a little time to see a show this week, and don't forget to give a smaller show some love. There's lots of theater gems out there. Until our next show, good night, theater people and curtain.