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[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome to A Musical Theatre Podcast. I'm your host, Jeffrey Scott Parsons, and today we are diving into the world of AVENUE Q with the incredibly talented Sarah Hester Ross.

[0:30] Sarah Hester Ross: Thanks for having me, Jeff! I'm so excited to talk about AVENUE Q.

[0:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: AVENUE Q is such a unique musical, blending humor with some pretty serious themes. What was your first experience with it?

[1:21] Sarah Hester Ross: I first saw it when I was in college, and I was just blown away by how it tackled adult issues with puppets. It was both hilarious and eye-opening.

[1:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It really does use comedy to address some heavy topics. How do you think that impacts the audience's reception of the show?

[2:01] Sarah Hester Ross: I think it makes the themes more accessible. People can laugh at the absurdity of life while also reflecting on their own experiences. It’s a clever way to engage with serious issues.

[2:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. And the puppets add a layer of whimsy that makes it all the more engaging. What do you think about the character dynamics in AVENUE Q?

[2:41] Sarah Hester Ross: The characters are so relatable. They represent different aspects of adulthood—like struggling with identity, relationships, and finding purpose. It’s a great mix of humor and heart.

[3:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the music is fantastic! Do you have a favorite song from the show?

[3:21] Sarah Hester Ross: I love "It Sucks to Be Me." It perfectly captures that feeling of being lost and frustrated, but in such a funny way.

[3:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That song is a standout for sure. It really sets the tone for the rest of the show.

[4:01] Sarah Hester Ross: Exactly! And it’s so catchy. You can’t help but sing along.

[4:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What do you think has changed in the cultural landscape since AVENUE Q debuted in 2003?

[4:41] Sarah Hester Ross: I think there’s been a shift in how we talk about mental health and relationships. AVENUE Q was ahead of its time in addressing these issues, but now they’re even more at the forefront of conversations.

[5:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That’s a great point. The show has a timeless quality, but it also feels relevant to today’s discussions.

[5:21] Sarah Hester Ross: Definitely! It’s interesting to see how the humor still resonates, even as society evolves.

[5:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Humor is such a powerful tool in storytelling. How do you think it helps convey the messages in AVENUE Q?

[6:01] Sarah Hester Ross: Humor disarms people. It allows them to engage with difficult topics without feeling overwhelmed. AVENUE Q does this brilliantly.

[6:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I couldn’t agree more. It’s a delicate balance, but they nail it.

[6:41] Sarah Hester Ross: And the puppetry adds an extra layer of charm. It’s hard not to smile when you see those characters come to life.

[7:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure! The puppets are iconic. Do you think they help the audience connect with the characters more?

[7:21] Sarah Hester Ross: Absolutely! The puppets allow for a certain level of detachment, which makes it easier to explore the more uncomfortable themes. It’s a unique approach.

[7:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It really is. And it’s fascinating how the creators managed to blend those elements together.

[8:01] Sarah Hester Ross: The creativity behind AVENUE Q is inspiring. It shows that you can push boundaries while still being entertaining.

[8:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well said! It’s a perfect example of how musical theatre can tackle complex issues with humor and heart.

[8:41] Sarah Hester Ross: Exactly! And I think that’s what makes it such a beloved show.

[9:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As we wrap up, what do you hope audiences take away from AVENUE Q?

[9:21] Sarah Hester Ross: I hope they leave feeling seen and understood. It’s okay to struggle and feel lost, and humor can be a great way to cope with that.

[9:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That’s a beautiful message. Thank you so much for joining me today, Sarah!

[9:41] Sarah Hester Ross: Thank you for having me, Jeff! This was a blast.

[10:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our previous episode on THE BOOK OF MORMON featuring Candace Quarrels.

[10:21] Sarah Hester Ross: And don’t forget to follow me on social media and check out my standup special, "Don't Mess with a Redhead," at sarahhesterross.com.

[10:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thanks for being part of our podcasting community! Remember to give us a nice rating and review to help the podcast grow.

[11:01] Sarah Hester Ross: Yes, please do! And support the arts however you can.

[11:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Until next time, keep celebrating the humanity of our musical theatre art form!

[12:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome back to A Musical Theatre Podcast! Today, we’re diving into the world of AVENUE Q with the incredibly talented Sarah Hester Ross.

[13:02] Sarah Hester Ross: Thanks for having me, Jeff! I’m so excited to talk about this show.

[13:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: AVENUE Q is such a unique musical, blending puppetry with adult themes. What was your first experience with it?

[14:02] Sarah Hester Ross: I first saw AVENUE Q when I was in college, and it completely blew my mind. The humor, the puppets, and the way it tackled real-life issues was just so refreshing.

[14:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It really does have a way of addressing those adult themes with humor. What do you think makes that approach so effective?

[14:42] Sarah Hester Ross: I think it’s the juxtaposition of the cute puppets with the serious topics. It allows the audience to laugh while also reflecting on their own lives, which is such a powerful combination.

[14:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely! And the music is so catchy too. Do you have a favorite song from the show?

[15:12] Sarah Hester Ross: I love "It Sucks to Be Me." It’s so relatable and really sets the tone for the rest of the show.

[15:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That song definitely captures the essence of the characters’ struggles. How do you think AVENUE Q has changed since its debut in 2003?

[15:32] Sarah Hester Ross: I think some of the themes are even more relevant now. The conversations around adulthood and the challenges we face have evolved, but the humor remains timeless.

[15:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It’s interesting to see how a show can adapt to the times while still holding onto its core message.

[15:52] Sarah Hester Ross: Exactly! And the way it addresses issues like relationships and finding your purpose is something everyone can relate to, no matter the era.

[16:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Speaking of relationships, how do you think AVENUE Q portrays them?

[16:12] Sarah Hester Ross: It’s very honest. The characters are flawed, and their relationships are messy, which is a true reflection of real life. It’s refreshing to see that on stage.

[16:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure! And the humor really helps to soften those hard truths.

[16:32] Sarah Hester Ross: Yes! It’s like a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. The comedy makes it easier to digest those heavier themes.

[16:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That’s a perfect way to put it. What do you think is the legacy of AVENUE Q?

[16:52] Sarah Hester Ross: I think it opened the door for more adult-themed musicals. It showed that you can tackle serious subjects with humor and still be successful.

[17:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Definitely! It paved the way for shows like THE BOOK OF MORMON and others that followed.

[17:12] Sarah Hester Ross: Exactly! And it’s still relevant today, which is a testament to its brilliance.

[17:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that. Before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to share about AVENUE Q or your own work?

[17:32] Sarah Hester Ross: Just that I’m so grateful to be part of this conversation. AVENUE Q has had a huge impact on my career, and I hope more people continue to discover it.

[17:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you so much for joining me today, Sarah! It’s been a pleasure discussing AVENUE Q with you.

[17:52] Sarah Hester Ross: Thank you, Jeff! I had a blast.

[18:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our previous episode on THE BOOK OF MORMON featuring Candace Quarrels.

[18:12] Sarah Hester Ross: Yes, definitely! There’s so much to explore in musical theatre.

[18:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Remember to give us a nice rating and review to help the podcast grow!

[18:32] Sarah Hester Ross: And follow us on social media for more great content!

[18:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thanks for being part of this wonderful podcasting community.

[18:52] Sarah Hester Ross: Bye everyone!

[19:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Until next time!

[25:34] Sarah Hester Ross: You're so right. And what I think is so smart about these authors is that they looked at the Sesame Street sort of mission statement, if you will, and said, when you grow up, all of those anxieties still exist. Yeah, yeah, it's terrifying to live when you're a child, but it is terrifying to live as an adult. And we don't know what we're doing. And you know, we're telling if we are telling kids, don't say that don't feel that it's because on some level, we don't know what to do with that. Still, we still haven't figured out what to do with those words and those feelings. And so Avenue Q becomes this show, where we're going to use the stuff that we still need from childhood to help us figure out the adult stuff that we didn't run into in childhood.

Right. Rick Lyon, who was the he designed the puppets for the whole show. In fact, most of the people in the show had worked on Sesame Street on some level, or for that would be smart of them to get absolutely professionals that have that kind of background. That's very smart. So Mr. Lyon, he created all of the puppets, but he was also in the show. And it's a beautiful quote. He says, to me, puppetry is not the suspension of belief, which is what we always say theater is, right? It is the creation of belief. Isn't that beautiful? Because he's creating the puppets? Yes, because the because we know, we're not pretending that that thing on stage is alive. We know that it's felt right. Yeah, when you see Kermit the Frog hugging a little child, it might as well be real. Yeah. Yeah. We are believing we're not suspending our belief. We're actively believing that this because of the way that it makes us feel. Yeah, that's lovely. It's so sweet.

[27:27] Sarah Hester Ross: So all of the puppets, because I believe there are 11 different puppets in Avenue Q, and then three human characters that interact with them all in the same way. That is probably one of the most intriguing parts of the show to me, what made them decide to have real people that were acting as humans, and then monsters, and then just puppets that were not monsters. It's just like, and again, it's part of it. It's makes it intriguing. It like pads the script to be able to talk about different subjects and stuff like that. And I get the monster between the puppets, because that's how they open the conversation about race and stuff like that, which is very interesting. But like, I always wondered that from the first scene, and the guy comes out as a human with no puppet.

And I'm just like, wait, where's, where's this puppet, but it's very interesting. To me, it makes it makes the world feel expansive, in a way, because you're like, oh, you, you're immediately thrown into this arena where you have to accept, oh, I guess humans and puppets live next to each other. And then within the world of puppets, there are different races. And then, and then sometimes there will be moving boxes that are also puppets, you know, like it's, it makes for a sense of danger, which I always love in theater, because you just you you're, you're thrown into it. And then you're like, kind of figuring it out as you have no idea where this is gonna go. Yeah, yeah. And that and that's very, that's very special about this show. You really like if you do if you walk in, not knowing the music and not like, it really just goes every which way. Yeah, and it's, it's really, it's really cool. It's very well written.

[29:22] Sarah Hester Ross: Well, that's what I will say next is that if this was just a musical, like a Sesame Street musical with different vignettes, I probably wouldn't be interested. What I think, because I feel like it would be a kind of a one joke that after two hours, I'd be like, yeah, like, are we still we're still doing this thing? Yeah, yeah. For me, what really makes this show work is the book is the is the script. And so we got a shout out Jeff Witte, who wrote the script. We've talked about him on the podcast before, because he also did the book for Bring It On the musical. Oh, okay. And he's an Academy Award nominee for the movie Can You Ever Forgive Me, which is a brilliant film. It's a real shame because he has kind of left theater.

Have you ever heard of the musical Head Over Heels? I haven't No, it was on Broadway for just a little bit. But I think there's a pretty loyal fan base. Bonnie Milligan came from it. It is the music of the Go-Go's with told told with this like kind of classical story. And he had a rid and the show originally premiered at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And he had written this really interesting iambic pentameter that went with it sold out was a big, big hit. They decided it was going to Broadway. The director comes in and says, Awesome, thank you to everyone who created the show, you're all fired. And they share and they and they brought in a new writer totally redid the script, even though it was his baby.

And he has written a whole blog about it. I'm only saying this because I find that his side of the story very interesting. The producers were like, everyone is very grateful to each other. And we're respectively going our separate ways. And he was like, Oh, hell no, that's not what happened. And wrote this whole blog called Grand Theft Musical. And anyway, I love when artists come out and tell the story about what actually happens. And it's not anything that happened that the production company says, because you're right. It's all about at the end of the day, it's all about the money. And so I love when artists come out and be like, but you like production company, I'm telling them actually what happens.

[31:37] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah. Well, I hope there's a producer, somebody that can convince him to come back to theater and do more because he's really clever. And the way that he writes queer representation is, it feels really authentic and not preachy, which is difficult to do. And when you've if you've ever been to Kinky Boots, or The Prom, all both of which are beautiful pieces of theater, but like, is one of my favorite shows. It's so great. It's so beautiful. But those shows are definitely going to church, right? And Jeff Witte has a way of putting it out there almost objectively, which is hilarious to say when you're talking about puppets, but but it's a it's a very special voice that he has. Anyway, is he gay?

Yes, very much so. Okay. Have you ever heard of the film Short Bus? I haven't. I have not. Okay, all right. Okay. No, John Cameron Mitchell, aka Hedwig and the Angry Inch, directed this film called Short Bus. And it's very, very, it's very graphic, but like hilarious gay sex, early 2000s. And, and I think Jeff Witte, he has a cameo in an orgy, I think somewhere in there. But it's like, like you do, but it's this whole, there's this group, there's this group of him and John Cameron Mitchell, it feels like, just like cool, kind of punk rock gays in the early 90s from New York. Like, that's that group to me. I love it. I kind of, I kind of love them.

[33:21] Sarah Hester Ross: All right. So we do have to talk about the Wicked of it all. Because Avenue Q. I didn't know this. I didn't know. I had no idea, which I find incredibly, like seething, like, like tea. This is so there's gotta be stuff behind it. Because it's like Wicked was so, so big. Yeah, I mean, it's still big. It's like, that's what's so crazy. Because Avenue Q is brilliant. And honestly, I've been over the years, I've become more and more pro Wicked in this debate. Okay, okay. However, doing this episode, I'm like, Oh, gosh, dang it, it actually Avenue Q is pretty special. That being said, Avenue Q closes on Broadway and goes to off Broadway. Wicked would never work off Broadway. It's too big. It's too huge.

And so what what I will always say for Wicked is to create a show that big, that can capture the hearts and minds and everything of an entire of the entire world for as long as it has on that scale is impossible. Yeah. So say what you want, but the Tonys are about celebrating theater on Broadway. And Wicked is kind of quintessential Broadway. And that ain't easy. You know, it just isn't.

[34:49] Sarah Hester Ross: But okay, to play devil's advocate, please. It's a little unfair. Because no, it's already oranges, for sure. Avenue Q was literally the first time anybody has done this, like it was original in its own. Oh, like you're saying that Wizard of Oz, Wizard of Oz, you had already in the minds of Yeah, I hear what you're saying there. It's not fair. And what and Wizard of Oz, and the fact that there had been tons of reboots of Wizard of Oz, the Wiz, people already knew the story, and they loved it. And they were ready to, they were ready for the story. Yes. In its intricacies of the different side, that is very special and original and stuff like that. But I just I feel like it's not fair to compare the two if we're talking about original, from the ground scratch, you know? Sure. But Avenue Q had Sesame Street.

[35:56] Sarah Hester Ross: But they didn't really do Sesame Street. Well, in the history of the Tony Awards, there are kind of two different ways that things go. For example, the musical Falsettos when it appears in the early 90s. So great, right? I love Falsettos so much. That's like one of my top three.

[36:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[36:15] Sarah Hester Ross: All time favorite shows. Yeah.

[36:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I love that.

[36:16] Sarah Hester Ross: Okay, so it wins Best Book and Best Score. But it doesn't win Best Musical, it loses to Crazy for You, the big show.

[36:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[36:26] Sarah Hester Ross: You look at-

[36:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Falsettos wasn't big.

[36:28] Sarah Hester Ross: Then you look at maybe, was it 98? I think it's 98 where you have Ragtime winning Best Book and Best Score. Lion King wins Best Musical.

[36:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A few years later, you have Urinetown winning Best Book and Best Score. Thoroughly Modern Millie wins Best Musical.

[36:50] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[36:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right, so there's this pattern of, okay, the smaller, maybe more artistic, maybe more originally artistic show wins some of the smaller awards. But Best Musical goes to the big one because we have to give admiration to how hard it is to make a big old show work.

[37:08] Sarah Hester Ross: 100%. Avenue Q comes along and is like, we are breaking that pattern. And they played the game. They sent every Tony voter, because the mixtape is so big in the show.

[37:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, right, yeah.

[37:23] Sarah Hester Ross: Maybe it's not a cassette tape, maybe it was a CD. But anyway, they send them an original song that they wrote and recorded that was like, please vote with your heart.

[37:37] Sarah Hester Ross: And it was very sweet and it totally worked. Have you ever heard it? I've never actually heard it. Maybe, maybe I should look for it. But it's one of the only instances then when the Tony Awards come around, AVENUE Q wins best book, best score, and we're like, oh, maybe Wicked will get the big award, and nope, AVENUE Q gets it. Wow, love it. So they played the game and they won. At the end of the day, it is a game. It is. I mean, yeah, that's great. I had no idea. It is so interesting. I love like, I don't know, this is my politics.

[38:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, you're very knowledgeable. You can tell that this is definitely your passion.

[38:22] Sarah Hester Ross: What else was I going to do in my farm town in Utah? Community theater and memorizing my Tony book.

[38:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's talk through the show a little bit. I want to go through some of these characters and moments because I also want to get your takes as a comedian. At the beginning of the show, we meet Princeton, who's kind of our lead. He's graduated from college. He's coming to AVENUE Q because it's the only place that he can afford to live. But he's filled with all of that. I have a BA in English and a world of possibilities. That joke is so good. It's so good that it's right out of the gate. It's the first joke.

[39:10] Sarah Hester Ross: Well, technically, because they do the screen at the beginning of the movie. The Sesame Street sort of screen.

[39:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which can be very comical, but I don't think that they're expecting that to be the first joke. The BA in English is the first joke of the show. It's so poignant. Anybody who likes musical theater will immediately be like, oh, that joke hurts. That hurts. Ouch.

[39:46] Sarah Hester Ross: Why are you reading me so loudly? It's so good. It's so right in your face. That's why it gets such a big laugh because you realize, oh, this is a comedy. This is the show. Granted, you already know that there's puppets involved, so there's going to be some silliness, but that doesn't mean comedy. That doesn't mean written comedy jokes. Hard jokes.

[40:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. The whole opening number is really brilliant, which is called It Sucks to Be Me, because all of these characters are living on Avenue Q for a reason, and so they're kind of competing for who has it the worst. We meet Kate Monster. It's interesting. We can talk a little bit about the politics or the social politics of this world of Avenue Q. Once again, you have the people. You have the puppets. You also, within the puppets, have monsters who are considered less than. Maybe they are persecuted as a race, and from a puppet standpoint, they're fuzzier. They're a little bit more like shag carpet compared to the other puppets.

[41:05] Sarah Hester Ross: You've also got this engaged couple, Brian and Christmas Eve. Brian is a white guy trying to be a stand-up comic and just is lost as can be. He can't find a punchline to save his life.

[41:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is funny, because he's the Jew of the show.

[41:20] Sarah Hester Ross: I didn't even think about that.

[41:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, and at the end, not the end, their marriage.

[41:24] Sarah Hester Ross: The marriage, right.

[41:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At their wedding and stuff like that, yes. Which is very funny, because typically, Jewish people are supposed to be the funny people, the comic characters, and they make him not funny, and he's a terrible comedian. They're talking about the irony of it all. People are like, oh, Jews are funny, blah, blah, blah. Well, ours isn't. Our Jew sucks.

[42:01] Sarah Hester Ross: He's probably not a great one at that, because he's married somebody named Christmas Eve.

[42:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, and she's Asian American.

[42:09] Sarah Hester Ross: She's just an Asian American. A good Jewish boy would definitely be in trouble for that, specifically from his family.

[42:18] Sarah Hester Ross: I wasn't raised Jewish, but my dad was Jewish. When I got married, I married a Jewish man. I converted to Judaism for my marriage. I know a lot about it. My heritage is Jewish, because of my blood. Then when I got married, I learned a lot about the religion. I kept kosher for seven years and stuff like that. I just find the writing of Jews very interesting.

[42:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is probably one of my favorite jokes, because it's not even a joke. They're not making a joke about it. It's just they're blindly commenting on the fact that people think Jews or say that, oh, the Jews are funny, or because they're so involved in comedy and stuff like that. Jerry Seinfeld had a lot to do with that.

[43:14] Sarah Hester Ross: Sure, sure.

[43:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But yeah, so I think that that's pretty interesting.

[43:19] Sarah Hester Ross: Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't even think about that. It's so great. Who else do we got? Oh, we got the superintendent, of course, of this big apartment building.

[43:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Gary Coleman.

[43:28] Sarah Hester Ross: Gary Coleman, who is the most random thing.

[43:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I tried so hard to find out why Gary Coleman, and I really couldn't figure anything out.

[43:42] Sarah Hester Ross: But it's so random.

[43:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It had to be somebody random enough that it is funny, but it also kind of makes sense, because what else is he doing? Apparently, they met with Gary Coleman to see if he'd be willing to play himself.

[44:00] Sarah Hester Ross: I was about to say, they had to have gotten his permission to use his name.

[44:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They set up a whole meeting. He said he was interested, and then he never showed up to the meeting and kind of ghosted them after.

[44:15] Sarah Hester Ross: So then they're like, well, I guess we'll go through with it. So they hired a female woman of color to play Gary Coleman.

[44:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which I feel is really funny that they hired a woman.

[44:28] Sarah Hester Ross: That's very, very interesting.

[44:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and I guess Gary Coleman at one point threatened to sue. He never did, and then he passed away.

[44:37] Sarah Hester Ross: And when he did pass away, they dedicated all of the performances to him, and they even changed one of the lines in which he jokes about death to no longer be about that, because they wanted to respect him. And anyway, so I think it's just a really interesting choice.

[44:57] Sarah Hester Ross: It blows me away every single time. I'm like, what? What happened? Gary Coleman?

[45:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[45:04] Sarah Hester Ross: And what's going to happen in 20 years? Are people going to even know who Gary Coleman was when they're doing Avenue Q from TV's Different Strokes?

[45:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that they put that. It's one of my favorite lyrics.

[45:18] Sarah Hester Ross: Oh my gosh. That's a good question. Probably not.

[45:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know.

[45:23] Sarah Hester Ross: I mean, it's not even on Naked Knight, really.

[45:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[45:28] Sarah Hester Ross: It's not even really reruns.

[45:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: TV Land or something.

[45:31] Sarah Hester Ross: TV Land, yeah.

[45:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's true. I don't know.

[45:32] Sarah Hester Ross: Well, I watched it on Naked Knight. Now Naked Knight is modern.

[45:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. I'm like, what? Excuse me?

[45:41] Sarah Hester Ross: That's rude.

[45:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What happened to I Dream of Jeannie?

[45:46] Sarah Hester Ross: Anyway, so it sucks to be them.

[45:48] Sarah Hester Ross: Oh, and then of course we meet some of the other puppets. We got Trekkie Monster, who's also a monster. We'll talk about him more in a little bit. But the two other puppets that we meet really in depth here at the beginning are Rod and Nikki, who are obviously based on Burt and Ernie.

[46:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, I find this really interesting.

[46:05] Sarah Hester Ross: You can hear it.

[46:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. You can hear it in the voices that they definitely wanted to go that direction.

[46:12] Sarah Hester Ross: And they're played as the total odd couple. One's a neat freak, one is a mess. And the joke has always been that Burt and Ernie are gay, and that no one's saying it. And so I think the obvious joke here would have been to just make them the gay couple on the street, but they chose not to do that. And I think that's so much more interesting.

[46:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Rod is this closeted homosexual, and Nikki is a straight, messy guy who has absolutely no judgments about gay people at all.

[46:48] Sarah Hester Ross: In fact, this song, If You Were Gay, he's trying to help his friend out of the closet, and Rod's just fiercely shutting the door every single time. It's really sweet.

[47:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is really sweet. It is.

[47:03] Sarah Hester Ross: And again, I think this is where puppets come in at a really positive place, because if a man was just singing this, it could possibly come across as disingenuine. But him saying this to his friend, he's like, If you were gay, but I'm not gay. And he has to end it with the fact that he's not gay. So if a human man was saying this, you might think, oh, are they hinting that he's gay too? But it's a puppet, and it just feels more genuine. Like you said, he has literally no judgments about his friend being homosexual. He just wants him to be happy.

[47:52] Sarah Hester Ross: And I love that. And ultimately, in my brain, that's the use of the puppets, to be able to say things that if a human said it, it would come across cringey, or like, I don't get it, or immediately people get defensive. But you can't get defensive over a puppet. It's like, what did that puppet say?

[48:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a puppet.

[48:21] Sarah Hester Ross: The puppet didn't really say anything. I got news for you.

[48:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And that's delightful. It's delightful.

[48:32] Sarah Hester Ross: Princeton finds out that, you know, he's moved to the city, he has this job, he immediately loses the job because they're downsizing. And so now he doesn't have a job. He has no money to pay for rent. And that, therefore, means that he has no purpose. And that this really is maybe the, well, it's clearly the I want song, right, that we always have in musical theater. But on top of that, it is the whole thesis of the show, right? There is this point in our adult lives where we start, it's not just like, what is the meaning of life? It's what is my meaning of life? Why am I still here? And Princeton really becomes the symbol for that, for bringing that back into the show throughout. What is my purpose? I can't find my purpose. Pretty profound. I can imagine, once again, a lot of people connecting to this little puppet, expressing something that maybe they've felt before.

[49:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. And using pup, again, we're just going back to the, like, Sesame Street for adults, adults struggle with purpose, you know? I mean, I feel like kids don't. And that's the very obvious distinction between this being a show for adults, but in the essence of what kids would, how kids would need to be spoon fed it, you know? The difference between what do you want to be?

[50:09] Sarah Hester Ross: is the co-founder and co-producer of AVENUE Q with Sarah Hester Ross.

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[1:02:42] Sarah Hester Ross: And that's the popularized version of charity of the time. I mean, we all talk about charities and stuff like that, and then realize that, oh, they only have to give 10% of what they make at these things, and then they keep the rest. It's a hot take. It's a really hot take. There's very little discussion about how to change it and make it better. This is just how it is, folks. It's just how it is. And that's how people talk about capitalism, just in general. Capitalism is like, oh, well, join it or you're out. Or you're not. It either works for you or it doesn't, but that's part of the game. It's life. And it's just like, oh, that's why younger generations are having such a hard time with us. I'm not going to presume how old you are, but I'm a millennial.

[1:03:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I'm an old millennial.

[1:03:42] Sarah Hester Ross: I am also an elder millennial. I'm on the cusp. I feel like our generation was very much out of the loop of conversations. It was there. We know it. We just kind of sat back and let it hit us in the face. And we're just like, okay, well, I'm alive today, so that's good. That's a good thing. I'm alive and the old people are still in charge, and I guess that's just how, what we have to deal with. All right, so they're not going to retire when they're 70. Okay, well, I'll be patient. One day I'll get my job.

[1:04:16] Sarah Hester Ross: Exactly. And Gen Z is not doing that.

[1:04:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They're saying, hell no.

[1:04:20] Sarah Hester Ross: And I freaking love it. I love it. They are intense. They are an intense group. I love you all, but you're intense, guys. Especially online. But I really love it. I love their conversation starters. I don't think that they have any solutions yet. They got the anger down. And they have the awareness down, which is something that I didn't have as a kid, as a young adult. So kudos on them.

[1:04:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, bravo. So Princeton is able to raise enough money because of a major investor, aka Trekkie Monster. We haven't talked about him yet, but he has one obsession in life, and it is pornography. The internet is for porn is his big number. Because I guess he has invested all of his money, we find out by the end of the show, he has invested all of his money into porn. And it is, you know, like many of my friends who have become OnlyFans performers since the pandemic, it's blossoming for him.

[1:05:37] Sarah Hester Ross: It's lucrative.

[1:05:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's lucrative, baby. And so he's made all of this money. And because he himself is a monster, he thinks that this is a beautiful thing to invest in. So he gives his money and they are able to get Kate this new school that she's always wanted. It's really sweet. And once again, in any other show, I feel like Kate Monster would be like, Princeton, you did this for me. Oh my gosh, let's get married right now. And the show will end with a wedding. And instead, she has been truly hurt by what has happened, you know, right before Act One. And so the last piece of info we get about their relationship is she asks, can we take it day by day? Which is so honest, and so real. So that is so real. And you don't expect that at the top of the show. And I think this is part of what you were talking about how gay men write women in a better way than straight men do, obviously.

[1:06:45] Sarah Hester Ross: But mostly, going back to because gay men tend to listen to women, they listen to what they have to say and what they want and stuff like that. Not that all straight men don't, please. And not that don't don't take that. Also, not that there's not plenty of misogyny in the gay world.

[1:07:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 100%. 100%. But like this, you think, Kate is going to be this typical female character, because at the beginning, all it's all about having a boyfriend. It's all wrong. And it's just like, and then that is the end of their story of her story that they're telling us. I love it. And coming from a puppet, you know, it could be so easy to just be like, oh, happy ever after.

[1:07:33] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah, how many shows have we done where we just in the last two pages of the show, we all embrace and then lights down? You know, right? Yeah, the way that this show ends is with a song that's not. I mean, it's bittersweet. And do you remember Big Little Lies that show on HBO?

[1:08:03] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah, where the entire season arc was about for Reese Witherspoon was about her making sure that their community theater could perform Avenue.

[1:08:03] Sarah Hester Ross: But in the season finale, they show this ending, right, which is the characters just singing about how life is just for now. If things suck, it's just for now. If things are great, it's just for now. And like that is the beauty of life is that it's constantly changing. And if you feel like you can't hang on, just know that you don't have to hang on for too long, because it will change.

[1:08:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yeah, I do.

[1:09:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really sweet. And I remember, not to talk about Big Little Lies, but I just remember the camera like on Reese Witherspoon during that section. And during throughout the whole season, she had been struggling with her marriage and was making all of these horrible decisions. And then as she's sitting there listening to the song, you're like, oh, that's why they picked Avenue Q.

[1:09:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, tell me about it. I don't think it's widely known, but they go into this like, Jewish Avenue Q.

[1:09:20] Sarah Hester Ross: You've never seen it?

[1:09:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Maybe I never saw it.

[1:09:26] Sarah Hester Ross: Okay, it's not a part of the book.

[1:09:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Maybe it wasn't in the bootleg that I watched.

[1:09:30] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah, definitely not in the script when I revisited it. I think they added it later on Broadway, and then they kept it off Broadway. Again, it's not. Yeah, they go into, they all change into Jewish, Jewish characters. They put scarves on the puppets' heads. They talk about living in a like Avenue Q is a Jewish community now.

[1:09:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like Shtetl in Fiddler on the Roof or something?

[1:09:53] Sarah Hester Ross: Yes, 100%. And it's so random and crazy. And it's just like, wait, what's happening? Wait, what is this code at? And that's the end. Yeah, and they end it. And they don't even explain like, how did Avenue Q become Jewish? They make a lawyer joke. A guy comes out and does a pirouette in a tzitzit. And it's just like, okay, we're Jews now, I guess. It's very Fiddler on the Roof. I can't exactly remember the song, but it was the beginning song in a minor key.

[1:09:54] Sarah Hester Ross: Like she gets it. Yeah, yeah, right. That's why she wanted this because she saw herself in these puppets. And I think that that's what all of us did. We saw ourselves in these crazy little creatures. Now, are we going to talk about the extended ending?

[1:10:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I'm so surprised that you haven't seen this.

[1:10:47] Sarah Hester Ross: No. I mean, because I never saw it on Broadway. And so all I saw was the, you know, the bootleg, and then I reread the script in preparation for this. So that is bananas. I'm gonna have to go look it up. I'm sure everyone's like, Jeff, how do you not know this?

[1:11:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, maybe. I mean, again.

[1:11:10] Sarah Hester Ross: It's because I went and saw Wicked twice, you guys. I saw it back to back. I went one night and Eden Espinosa was out. And I was like, I did not come to New York not to see Eden Espinosa. The Tonys are punishing you for not seeing the random outro of Avenue Q live. But yeah, look it up. It's very, it's very left field. And it's just like, why? But okay.

[1:11:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It fits. It fits with the show. And it's like randomness. You know what I mean?

[1:11:41] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah. 100%.

[1:11:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh. What a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much, Sarah. This has been so much fun.

[1:11:47] Sarah Hester Ross: My pleasure. This is so fun. I never get to talk about musical theater anymore because it's not the purpose of my life. Which it used to be. I mean, that was my dream. I wanted to be on Broadway. Oh, so bad.

[1:12:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How are we gonna, how do we steal you? Yeah.

[1:12:06] Sarah Hester Ross: Maybe one day. I mean, the fact is that my voice, I know can't last eight shows a week, you know, so it would have to be like a part a show written for me specific. Like, yeah. But, you know, this, I'm never gonna give up on that dream. If it happens, I will be overjoyed. But, you know, maybe I'll become one of those like really famous people that they're like, hey, just help us sell tickets. And I'll be like, yes.

[1:12:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you want to play Roxy in Chicago? You're like done.

[1:12:46] Sarah Hester Ross: I mean, who hasn't? Why not? Ariana Maddox or whatever her name is.

[1:12:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok. We're on X. I always love hearing from you all there. Thank you for those who reach out. We also have our Tee Public store where you can buy designs and the profits we receive of those we donate to Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS. And then, of course, don't forget about Patreon! We have such great episodes coming out. We've had such great episodes. Did you enjoy our listening party? We also have another segment of Something Worth Singing About, which I'm really excited about.

Always takes a lot of effort on my part, but I love doing it for our wonderful subscribers there at Patreon! Above all, thank you for being part of this wonderful podcasting community. Hey, Sarah, how do we follow you and everything you're up to?

[1:13:48] Sarah Hester Ross: Okay, it's really simple. On all social media platforms, I'm at Sarah Hester Ross. Two H's, two R's. It's my name. I'm very humble. And you can find my comedy special by either looking up on Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Don't Mess With the Redhead, or Sarah Hester Ross. Or you can make it really easy for you and just go to my website, SarahHesterRoss.com. All of the links are there.

[1:14:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amazing. And you have, like, upcoming shows, too, listed there on your website, right?

[1:14:21] Sarah Hester Ross: I do. And I will be adding more for the end of this year. I'm planning on going on tour either the end of this year or the beginning of next year.

[1:14:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amazing. Well, congratulations. If you subscribe to my website, you'll stay up to date with all the tours. You get the newsletter.

[1:14:39] Sarah Hester Ross: Yeah. Awesome. Well, congratulations again.

[1:14:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you so much for being with me today. Everybody out there, thank you for listening. I'm so grateful for you all. And remember, everything's just for now.

[1:14:53] Sarah Hester Ross: Hear, hear.