This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Nikki Renee Daniels: And you ended up opening before Sondheim passed, right? So he was involved?

[0:07] Teri Ralston: No, we didn't open. Well, we started previews. He was there and was great, in good spirits. He was very instrumental in the rehearsal process, also both times. I mean, he wasn't there every day, but with it being a show from the 70s that had been done in the UK and then coming here, there was a couple of just like turns of phrase. We were like, no one would say it like that. An American in 2021 wouldn't say X, Y, Z, whatever the phrase was. So we would ask him if we could change a few things. And I think, like I said, he came to the first preview, which was November 15th, and I believe he passed away on November 27th. And I think we opened on December 8th or 9th or something like that. I have this quote from him in regard to your revival. He said, "What keeps theater alive is the chance always to do it differently with not only fresh casts, but fresh viewpoints. It's not just a matter of changing pronouns, but attitudes."

[1:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, come on.

[1:23] Teri Ralston: Yeah, that's great.

[1:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are discussing the game-changing Stephen Sondheim musical Company, which was a listener request by many of you, including Karen and Pete. Pete, in particular, marveled how consistently the show has been revived throughout the years, saying, "There really hasn't been much black ketchup for the past creative teams to move through." Which, I mean, Pete, I freaking adore you for showing off your listener badge in one sentence or less. But he's right. He's right. This musical premiered in, what, like 1970 and then was revived on Broadway in '95, 2006, and recently 2021, all with completely different productions, but never because the show, quote unquote, needed to be fixed.

It's just a wholly fascinating piece of art. And I'm thrilled to be covering it today with a multitude of Jennys. First up, Nikki, are you exhausted because your resume is insane here? The Book of Mormon, The Gershwins' Porgy and Bess, Les Mis, Promises, Promises, Anything Goes, Little Shop of Horrors, not to mention last year's Tony-winning Best Revival Company, where you starred as Jenny and, as the cover for Bobby, became the first Black woman to lead this legendary show. I mean, during COVID, a cover during the time of COVID. You're bound to go on at least a few times. Everyone, please welcome Nikki Renee Daniels.

[2:57] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yay.

[2:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yay. Thank you for having me.

[3:00] Nikki Renee Daniels: Thank you so much for being on the podcast. You're kind of a legend. And happy Black History Month. Okay, so dive and ride in. What was your relationship to Company pre this whole revival? Did you know it? Did you like it?

[3:14] Nikki Renee Daniels: I did know it. I actually was a huge Sondheim fan when I was about 15. After my freshman year of high school, we moved from Rochester, New York to Atlanta, Georgia. And I had a whole summer in between freshman and sophomore year of high school where I had no friends and nothing to do. So I would go to the library and I would check out scripts and CDs of scores. And I would like sort of bone up on my musical theater knowledge. And that was where I really sort of first fell in love with Sondheim and got the scope of his work. I read, I think, pretty much every script of every show he had done and listened to the songs as I was reading through them. And that was when I was first introduced to Company. I'm nothing if not thorough with studying.

[4:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're like, I am a prepared artist.

[4:11] Nikki Renee Daniels: So I, you know, checked out this, it was like these books that had maybe like four Sondheim scripts in one book. And it was like broken down by the time, 1970 to 1979 or whatever. And I would check out the corresponding CDs to those scripts and I would read them and like play the songs as it was going along. So that was when I first became familiar with Company and with Sondheim in general. And I hope everybody's taking notes because this is like, this is She-Ra worthy, for sure. So that was really how I got to know a lot of his work. And then when I was in college, I did a summer stock at the Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera. And I was, you know, they hire college students to sort of be in the singing or dancing ensemble for the entire summer.

So I did four shows and then they kept four of the girl singers to stay and be a part of the vocal minority of Company. Which in the original cast, they had four girls who I would assume were also understudies for the women in the show who sort of sang backup, essentially, like filled out the sound in the pit. So they literally sat in the pit and had their mics and they sang along with the show. So they wanted to keep them for this production. So I was one of the four ladies and Malcolm Goetz was Bobby. Michelle Pak was Joanne. There were some really great people in that show. The rest of the cast is escaping me at the moment.

[5:39] Teri Ralston: For everyone who doesn't realize, amazing Maisie was playing Joanne. Like, come on, that's incredible.

[5:43] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah, and she was great. So nice. So it was really neat to be able to sit and watch that rehearsal process because Malcolm Goetz was obviously a genius. And the cast was great. So I got to really get familiar with the show, just sitting and watching rehearsal and sitting in the pit and singing along with the show. But that was my only experience sort of performing in the show before the revival.

[6:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At least you get to know the score and have a connection to the material. So then, fast forward, you're in a gajillion Broadway shows. And did you know that, had you heard of the gender flip revival happening in London?

[6:29] Nikki Renee Daniels: Of course, of course. I mean, who doesn't know what Miss LuPone is doing at all times? If you don't know anything else about Broadway, you know what Miss LuPone is doing. So yeah, of course I heard about that production. I thought it sounded interesting. But to be honest, before this revival, I hadn't really been able to get an audition for any Sondheim revivals. They just weren't seeing Black people, to be honest. I tried to get seen for that 2008 Sunday in the Park with George. Couldn't get in for that. I couldn't get in for A Little Night Music. But in this production, I had seen some of the photos, at least, of the British cast. And I saw that Jenny happened to be Black and happened to be the understudy for Bobby.

And I thought, oh, if they're having a female Bobby, I could do that. So I emailed my agents. And I remember I saw a breakdown for it. It was hilarious actors. It was something about being very comically gifted. And I was like, I don't know if I'm that funny. Am I funny enough to be in this? Maybe they would see me for Jenny. I mean, when you've got people like Jennifer Simard, that's who I think of when I see that breakdown. But I thought, you know, maybe they'll see me for it. So I got an audition. And at the time, I was actually doing Hamilton in Chicago. And I was flying back from Chicago to New York every week to see my kids. Like Sunday night after the matinee finished, I would run to the airport and get on a 7 o'clock flight. And I'd be back in New York on Monday. And then Tuesday I would leave at noon and go back to Chicago. And I did that for nine months.

[8:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[8:06] Nikki Renee Daniels: So, you know, I got the audition. But I only had, like, one day in the week that I could go in. So I went in. And Marianne Elliott is just, like, the nicest, most amazing person to audition for. And Chris Harper, who paid my salary, he was so kind. And so, you know, I got to go in and audition for them. And they knew I only had that one day. Because I think they were having callbacks later that week. So they had me do the scene a few times. And I sang "Bless This Day." And I sang "Have I Got A Guy For You." Because I think Jenny and Susan were kind of interchangeable as far as which solo they sang. So I did, like, all the material. I sang "Now A Day Goes By." And it's funny because a lot of times in these auditions, they're like, bring your own song. And they never ask you to sing it. They actually asked me to sing it. And I was like, oh, whoops, do I know the words? So, anyway, that was kind of, like, on the fly. This has been in my book for a while.

[9:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, I was like, I'll just sing this Sondheim song. I think I know the words and put it in my book just in case. And sure enough, they asked for the song. So I was, like, warning all my friends after that went in for it. Just so you know, they will ask for the song. But, anyway, you know, Marianne was great. So complimentary. And I felt like it went really well. They actually didn't have me do any of the Bobby material. So I thought, oh, you know, maybe they don't, you know, want me to understudy Bobby. Or maybe they'll ask me to come back in. But later that week, I got a call from the casting director that asked if I was cast, if I'd be willing to cover Bobby. So I was like, sure. So that's sort of how I was cast.

[9:41] Teri Ralston: Who am I to say no?

[9:43] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah.

[9:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's amazing. And then you, of course, had this insane rehearsal period where COVID hits. And you get shut down. And then you're on hiatus for, like, how long? How long between?

[9:55] Nikki Renee Daniels: 18 months, I think it was. We shut down in March of 20. And we started rehearsal in October of 21.

[10:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, everybody. Now, neither Nikki nor I were around for the original production of Company. But you know who was? Teri Ralston.

[10:15] Teri Ralston: That's right.

[10:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The original Jenny on Broadway. And she's here with me now to discuss the origins of the legendary show as well as just, like, all things Sondheim. I can't think of anybody better. Everyone, please welcome the amazing Teri Ralston.

[10:29] Teri Ralston: Hooray!

[10:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't think so.

[10:33] Teri Ralston: You weren't born when the original production was done.

[10:35] Nikki Renee Daniels: Guilty.

[10:37] Teri Ralston: Yeah.

[10:39] Teri Ralston: I was. However, I was very young. I just graduated from college.

[10:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I mean, exactly. You had to be...

[10:47] Teri Ralston: Oh, just graduated from college. Wow.

[10:49] Teri Ralston: Literally that year.

[10:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh. That's incredible.

[10:55] Teri Ralston: Okay. So, this was like the beginning of your relationship with Sondheim, which also included the original cast of A Little Night Music. You were one of the amazing singers that we hear right at the top of the show. But, I want to help everybody remember. And I have to force myself to remember this. That there was a time when Sondheim was not considered the incredible composer that we think of him now. Right? When Company hits, he, of course, was an insane lyricist, having been responsible for West Side Story and Gypsy and all sorts of things. But, in terms of composing, he had a big hit with A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Although, his score wasn't as good. But, he had a big hit with A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.

Although, his score wasn't as good. But, he had a big hit with A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Although, his score wasn't as good. But, he had a big hit with A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Although, his score wasn't as good. But, he had a big hit with A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Although, his score wasn't as good. And then, he had Anyone Can Whistle, which I love. But, audiences didn't. So, going into...

[11:57] Teri Ralston: But, going into this. What was your perception of him, in general? Who was Sondheim?

[12:03] Teri Ralston: This is so very embarrassing. Because, you know, I had been a drama and music major at San Francisco State. I was definitely a theater person. But, this all happened... But, this all happened... I was so green. I was so green. I was cast in this show, Your Own Thing, one of the early rock musicals. And, it took me to Philadelphia. And, then went into New York. And, I immediately got Jacques Brel. And, I was doing it in California. I went back, then, to do it in California. And, I went to an event. And, I went back, then, to do it in California. To see a friend perform at a club. And I somehow ended up sitting next to George Firth, who wrote Company. And, we visited.

[12:49] Teri Ralston: Yeah, he wrote the book. He said, are you an actress? And I said, yes. And he said, well, I've written the show. And I think you're absolutely perfect for a role in it. And I paid no heed to that.

[13:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Come on.

[13:03] Teri Ralston: Well, if you want to see me perform, you can come see me do Jacques Brel tomorrow. Which, he did. He then wrote to Hal Prince and said, I just found Jenny. Now, I didn't know about any of this. Luckily, I did go back to New York to go back into the cast in New York of Jacques Brel. I got called to do an audition. And I went and auditioned. And a week later, George Firth called me and said, you got it. And I didn't know what the significance of you got it meant. But, I went back there so green. And I don't think I even knew who Sondheim was. And even though I loved musical theater in college, doing a lot of Rodgers and Hammerstein. And I can't believe, looking back at that time, how naive I was. And I barely knew who Hal Prince was. So, I had no idea.

[14:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What you were doing.

[14:03] Teri Ralston: Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, I read about them. And, you know, I knew they were important. And, of course, then Michael Bennett. So, it was the first collaboration of the three of them. Which, oh my God. What a blessed person I have been. I mean, getting to be a part of that time and work with them. And then, it really...

[14:27] Teri Ralston: My entire adult life.

[14:28] Teri Ralston: It's fascinating to think about how COMPANY has evolved over the years. The themes of relationships and being alive resonate just as much today as they did when it first premiered.

[15:28] Nikki Renee Daniels: Absolutely! I think the beauty of Sondheim's work is that it captures the complexities of human emotions and relationships, which are timeless.

[15:58] Teri Ralston: And the way the characters navigate their lives and choices feels incredibly relatable, regardless of the era.

[16:28] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yes, and I love how the music complements the storytelling. Each song adds another layer to the characters' experiences.

[16:48] Teri Ralston: The score is so intricate. It really challenges performers to dig deep into their characters.

[17:08] Nikki Renee Daniels: I agree. It’s not just about hitting the right notes; it’s about conveying the emotional truth behind those notes.

[17:28] Teri Ralston: And that’s what makes performing in COMPANY such a rewarding experience. Each performance can be different based on where you are in your own life.

[17:48] Nikki Renee Daniels: Exactly! I think audiences can feel that authenticity. They connect with the performers on a deeper level.

[18:12] Teri Ralston: It’s interesting to see how different generations interpret the same material. Each production brings something unique to the table.

[18:32] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yes, and I think that’s part of the magic of theatre. It evolves with each new cast and creative team.

[18:52] Teri Ralston: And the conversations around the show also change. It reflects the societal shifts and what people are grappling with at the time.

[19:12] Nikki Renee Daniels: Absolutely. It’s a living piece of art that continues to spark dialogue about relationships and self-discovery.

[19:32] Teri Ralston: I remember when I first performed in COMPANY, the conversations we had backstage were just as impactful as the show itself.

[19:52] Nikki Renee Daniels: That’s so true! The camaraderie among the cast can really enhance the experience of performing.

[20:12] Teri Ralston: And it’s wonderful to see how the show has opened doors for more diverse casting and storytelling.

[20:32] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yes! It’s exciting to see more representation on stage, and I hope that continues to grow.

[20:42] Teri Ralston: It’s essential for audiences to see themselves reflected in the stories we tell.

[21:02] Nikki Renee Daniels: Definitely. It adds depth to the narrative and allows for a broader range of experiences to be shared.

[21:22] Teri Ralston: And that’s what makes COMPANY such a relevant piece of theatre, even after all these years.

[21:34] Nikki Renee Daniels: I couldn’t agree more. It’s a testament to Sondheim’s genius that the material remains so impactful.

[21:54] Teri Ralston: And the conversations we’re having today about love, commitment, and identity are just as important now as they were then.

[22:20] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yes! It’s all about connection and understanding what it means to be human.

[22:30] Teri Ralston: And that’s the heart of COMPANY. It’s about exploring those connections, even when they’re messy.

[22:50] Nikki Renee Daniels: Exactly! Life isn’t always neat, and neither are relationships. This musical embraces that complexity.

[23:00] Teri Ralston: And I think that’s what makes it resonate with so many people. They see their own struggles reflected in the characters.

[23:20] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yes! It’s a shared experience that brings people together, and that’s the power of theatre.

[23:40] Teri Ralston: I love that we can have these conversations across generations. It shows the lasting impact of this work.

[24:00] Nikki Renee Daniels: Absolutely! It’s a beautiful legacy that continues to inspire new artists and audiences alike.

[24:10] Teri Ralston: And I’m so grateful to be part of that legacy, even in different ways.

[24:30] Nikki Renee Daniels: Me too! It’s an honor to carry on the tradition and contribute to the ongoing dialogue.

[24:40] Teri Ralston: And I look forward to seeing how future productions will interpret and present COMPANY.

[24:50] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yes! The possibilities are endless, and I can’t wait to see what’s next.

[25:00] Teri Ralston: It’s an exciting time for musical theatre, and COMPANY is at the forefront of that evolution.

[25:10] Nikki Renee Daniels: Definitely! It’s a thrilling journey, and I’m glad we’re part of it.

[25:20] Teri Ralston: Here’s to many more conversations about this incredible musical!

[25:30] Nikki Renee Daniels: Cheers to that!

[28:57] Teri Ralston: They found their drama as they anticipated they might. It was edited. Believe me, it was edited because I watched it with her before all the editing was done. We watched it together and I said, Well what do you think? And she says, Oh, it's great if you want to see someone have a nervous breakdown. It was rough. But then the joy that they found by her coming back and doing it beautifully. She wanted to be last. So my God, this is 14 hours into this thing. And she certainly had nipped. She'd nipped. Two drinks doesn't work as in her own words.

[29:44] Teri Ralston: Something that just popped up for me. I remember watching the recent Tony Awards performance of the revival. And during the opening number, everybody was crammed into that little box, the little apartment box. And I was like, No wonder everybody got COVID. And number two, I was like, Wow, what a family dynamic this show naturally is going to create. What was the dynamic like for the group?

[30:17] Teri Ralston: Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Well, I will say this. When we were on the road, it was very funny because there's bickering between the couples. Of course. That only makes sense. And the actors playing the couples, there was bickering. We were all kind of at each other with our partners. But oh, my God, we love each other. I mean, we've lost so many. Charlie Kimbrough just passed away two weeks ago.

[30:46] Jeff Parsons: That's right. Oh, my gosh. I didn't even put that together. Right. Because he was in her original company as well as Sunday in the Park with George.

[30:52] Teri Ralston: Oh, yeah. Of course, we've lost Stretch and we've lost. But we are so close. I mean, Donna McKechnie and Pam Myers are two of my closest friends in the world. And yeah, it's family. I mean, Donna is like my sister.

[31:08] Jeff Parsons: Well, speaking of Donna, Michael Bennett was the choreographer for the show. And I think we don't necessarily think of Company as being a dance musical in the same way that a chorus line would be, you know.

[31:19] Teri Ralston: They like intentionally hired non-dancers. I definitely fit into that category.

[31:26] Jeff Parsons: You're like guilty as charged. So what did Michael Bennett, this legendary director choreographer, what did he bring to the table in this creative team?

[31:37] Teri Ralston: Oh, my God. I mean, look at what he did with Side by Side, that brilliant moment. I hate it when shows don't do this of the two couple, you know, tapping, da-da-da, and everyone has a partner, da-da-da, and then Bobby goes da-da-da, and he's alone. So I just got chills thinking about it. And, you know, having us come out with a band, you know, all the stuff that he created for non-dancers, you know, and the choreography for doo-doo, doo-doo, you know, and of course his collaboration, you know, he was a huge part of it, huge part of it.

[32:16] Jeff Parsons: That's so cool. You had that big elevator, right? There was that elevator that was so iconic. And from what I understand, the reason that that one note in Company was held as long as it was, was because that's how long it took for the elevator.

[32:26] Teri Ralston: That's right. And Steve figured it out.

[32:37] Jeff Parsons: Wow. Steve Sondheim figured it out. He was an actor, and he says, I write as an actor, and I also write for the choreographer and the director, because I know you need a pause here. You know, it's all there in the music. And of course, with Jonathan Tunick, the brilliant orchestrator, you know, he's right along with that, you know, right along. What a partnership. We don't talk nearly enough about the collaboration between Jonathan Tunick and Stephen Sondheim.

[33:14] Teri Ralston: I mean, change the sound of musicals. Absolutely, absolutely. The collaboration between Donna and Michael Bennett was also very special, because I feel like he was so inspired by her movement and what she was able to bring to it. And the recent revival of Company, I love what they did with TikTok. It was so, so special.

[33:37] Jeff Parsons: They didn't have a Donna McKechnie to do it.

[33:42] Teri Ralston: Exactly. But in the original, you had this incredible dancer and Donna McKechnie. I don't know, how would you describe the original TikTok?

[33:47] Teri Ralston: I'll talk with Nikki a little bit later about the revival one. Well, it's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Donna was hired. She went in to have an interview with Hal, I guess, and she said, well, don't you want me to do something for him? He says, oh, you're already hired. That was, I believe it was a condition of Michael's, that he would do the show if Donna was in it. And of course, they were all too happy to have her in it. I mean, she's my dear friend, but her brilliance, who is this person?

[34:31] Teri Ralston: The dance went through some difficulties until they brought in David Shire, and he wrote new dance music. He wrote the dance music, and it's sexual. It has an orgasm, basically. It's longing. It's needing. It's rejection. I mean, Michael tells a story with his dance, and Donna lives that story. Obviously, the chorus line dance is spectacular, but so many, including myself, believe that nothing surpasses the TikTok number.

[35:11] Jeff Parsons: Wow, I love that. Yeah, you're totally right. Music in the Mirror is always the dance that we think of, but the TikTok dance that is this embodiment of Bobby's sexual, social, intimate needs, right? All in the personification of this perfect girl that got away, right?

[35:31] Teri Ralston: What they did, speaking, I loved the new version. I really loved it, and I loved Nikki. It was so weird, though. I mean, everything made sense, but to see a guy saying my lines, because the roles are reversed. That director, oh my God, she's something else. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

[36:00] Jeff Parsons: This has been so much fun. Can you believe that we're already all done?

[36:09] Teri Ralston: Oh, we have to stop? I know. I need my limiter. I'll just keep going. Is there anything else you want to share about this time, though? Because I know it was so special, and I'm so grateful that we get to hear it from you.

[36:18] Teri Ralston: Well, it changed my life. From that point on, first of all, it was wonderful. I got recognition, and people still think of that show as if it was not all those years ago, and they remember me as Jenny, and it's all lovely. But just what I learned, what I learned, and then to continue my next show, I went right into a little night music. It was kind of a foundation of my life, and Hal and Steve were, I feel like I kind of grew up with them. It was an amazing, amazing, blessed life I've had.

[36:56] Jeff Parsons: That's beautiful, Teri Ralston. Thank you so much for spending some time with us.

[36:59] Teri Ralston: Thank you for asking me. And by the way, for anyone who does not realize, this woman can still sing her face off.

[37:04] Jeff Parsons: Well, again, I'm very grateful for that.

[37:09] Teri Ralston: My voice, I'm not bragging. I feel we're born with, you know, I feel this is a gift, and my voice is pretty much as strong as ever. I still have the high E's, and although I don't sing high E's, I mean, where can I sing a high E?

[37:27] Teri Ralston: Teri Ralston does define gravity.

[37:33] Jeff Parsons: Well, thank you so much, Teri. You're incredible. And everybody, we're now going to go back to my conversation with Nikki Renee Daniels.

[37:38] Nikki Renee Daniels: Hi, Nikki. So then, I mean, let's dive right into the show, because we start out meeting this character of Bobby, who traditionally was always cast as a male. He's in his 30s. He's not married, which traditionally meant that you're a menace to society, and you have no direction.

[37:56] Nikki Renee Daniels: So, as you came to understand Bobby, because how many times did you go on? I mean, a lot. I think it was nine. It was nine. It was all within that one stage.

[38:08] Jeff Parsons: That one kind of big week? Yeah. I remember, and I believe a listener, Tito Wilson, if I remember his name correctly, from Canada was coming to New York to see Company, and I was like, go, Nikki Renee Daniels is amazing. So, I think he saw you that week. Anyway.

[38:22] Nikki Renee Daniels: How nice. What's your take on her? How do you see her within the world of this show?

[38:31] Nikki Renee Daniels: I mean, definitely so relatable as a woman, and I thought that Marianne Elliott did such an amazing job of sort of putting a theme of Alice in Wonderland through the looking glass. It's kind of surreal. Go through all of these twists and turns and seeing things sort of on their ear a little bit. You know, a lot of my friends are around that age and are single ladies in New York, and I had my first daughter when I was 34, 33, something like that.

[39:03] Nikki Renee Daniels: And so, I totally get just hitting that sort of post-30 age and being like, wait a minute, what is my life? Is this the direction I want my life to be going in? And it's sort of like, for women, of course, such a bigger moment just because you're losing your window. If you do want to have a family and like, quote unquote, settle down or however you want to do it, you've got to start making decisions.

[39:25] Nikki Renee Daniels: And I remember I did a show with the actress Sharon Lawrence. I was in my 20s when we worked together. We became like fast friends. We were at Williamstown Theater Festival, and we would like go shopping and antiquing and stuff together. And I remember her like, kind of like sitting me down and being like, if you want to have kids, you need to really think about, you need to have it in your mind how, what you're going to do if you're not settled down by a certain age, if you want to like freeze your eggs or if you want, you know, you need to like think about it. It was almost like, you know, have a plan.

[39:59] Nikki Renee Daniels: And so, you know, of course, no one's sitting down, my mid-20s male friends having the same discussion, you know.

[40:04] Jeff Parsons: That's the truth. They can have kids till the end of time. So, you know, it's a huge issue for women, especially, you know, in New York, so many women in New York have come there to really be ambitious about some big career thing, you know, like people don't just sort of move to New York and see what happens. Like they're sort of goal-oriented type people that move to the city and want to like climb that corporate ladder or get to the top of their field.

[40:30] Nikki Renee Daniels: And so, Bobbi is a very successful woman. And, you know, she's having this big birthday, and all of her good friends are these married couples who are kind of like, well, what do you think? And so, like Sondheim said in that quote you gave, that's the reason to do it in 2022 and not to have sort of a museum period piece as great as it is. It's totally fine on its own. It doesn't need to be changed, but it's now dated in terms of what's important in the society now as compared to 1970, you know, 35-year-old men who are single, especially New York City, not anything anyone thinks twice about.

[41:08] Nikki Renee Daniels: So, I thought it was brilliant to just redo it with a woman. And there was so few lines that even had to be changed, you know, some pronouns here and there, but it just, you know, good writing can be done in any situation anywhere. And that's the case with this show.

[41:26] Jeff Parsons: I love this so much because it's kind of the dirty secret that nobody wants to talk about in that nobody wants to criticize ambition of women by bringing up the inevitable tick-tock, if you will, of like the biological clock. And even from the beginning in the revival when Bobby starts hearing like the baby cries, right, which sends her into this kind of surrealist nightmare and kind of an existential crisis. I was like, oh, like within the first 30 seconds, I totally got it. I was like, absolutely. This is the thing that is completely on the inside that nobody really feels comfortable talking about. And we're going to spend like the next two hours in the theater exploring it. Like how freaking exciting.

[42:25] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah, I mean, that's Marianne. She's brilliant. Sweet. So, it's Bobby's birthday. They brought Bobby a cake to blow out the candles. And this is a metaphor slash moment that we keep coming back to throughout the musical. This moment before blowing out the candles because the tradition is make a wish, right? What is the wish? And it takes different forms throughout the show. Like at some point, Bobby can't blow out the candles. At one point, Bobby does blow out the candles but didn't make a wish.

[43:01] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a metaphor for her indecision and her inability to take responsibility of putting the direction into her life herself and not sort of trying to do what her friends want her to do. I think in the show, the candles aren't supposed to blow out until the very end. So maybe, I don't know if you saw a technical. Oh, maybe.

[43:25] Nikki Renee Daniels: Well, like all the friends blow it out, right?

[43:28] Teri Ralston: Yeah, they can blow it out.

[43:30] Nikki Renee Daniels: They blow it out, absolutely.

[43:32] Teri Ralston: Because their intention is clear.

[43:34] Nikki Renee Daniels: Her intention is not clear.

[43:36] Teri Ralston: She can't blow them out herself until she truly knows and has made the decision of how she wants her life to go.

[43:42] Nikki Renee Daniels: So that's why at the very end of the show she is the one to take control.

[43:44] Teri Ralston: And even that fire extinguisher can't blow it out, right?

[43:48] Nikki Renee Daniels: She's got to make her own mind up about where she wants her life to go and blow the candle out for herself.

[43:56] Teri Ralston: And Mary Ann left that up to us to decide what we wanted it to be.

[44:00] Nikki Renee Daniels: What version of Bobby's life, how she wanted it to go.

[44:04] Teri Ralston: She left it up to us to pick.

[44:08] Nikki Renee Daniels: But it had to be for sure in our mind before we blew it out.

[44:14] Teri Ralston: Okay, so Bobby starts this visit kind of Christmas Carol style to all of her different friends.

[44:20] Nikki Renee Daniels: Little scenes that are just so perfectly written by George Firth that reveal the different states of relationships and marriages.

[44:28] Teri Ralston: And the first one which is honestly one of my favorites right off the bat is Sarah and Harry.

[44:34] Nikki Renee Daniels: Absolutely hilarious. This couple who loves each other and yet they're almost completely sick of each other because they know everything about each other.

[44:42] Teri Ralston: Vices and their strengths and their weaknesses and it's just a battlefield of all of that stuff going on.

[44:54] Nikki Renee Daniels: Joanne appears kind of in the middle of this scene to sing "The Things You Do Together," which is just a brilliant Sondheim song with brilliant lyrics, probably my favorite.

[45:06] Teri Ralston: The concerts you enjoy together, neighbors you annoy together, children you destroy together that keep marriage intact.

[45:12] Nikki Renee Daniels: It's obviously a little bit cynical but hilarious nonetheless.

[45:18] Teri Ralston: So what do you think about marriage? You're obviously married.

[45:22] Nikki Renee Daniels: Are you able to laugh at this and also see that? Because I mean like Dean Jones when he was first in the show left the show because he kind of felt on top of his own depression that the show was a little too cynical about marriage.

[45:36] Teri Ralston: Oh really? I didn't know that.

[45:40] Nikki Renee Daniels: Thankfully I'm very happily married.

[45:44] Teri Ralston: But you know the couples in the show I definitely each couple you can kind of picture a couple that you know.

[45:50] Nikki Renee Daniels: I have lots of parent friends being a mom of two kids. At the playground you pick up a collection of parent friends that you hang out with because you like them but also just to necessitate play dates or hanging out at the playground to pass the time or getting together for birthday parties or whatever the case may be.

[46:12] Teri Ralston: Then you have your parents and then your class parents at school that you're friends with because you know their kids really well and all that.

[46:20] Nikki Renee Daniels: So I could definitely see some of the relationships of the parent friends that I have on stage and these characters.

[46:30] Teri Ralston: You know it's a nuanced thing marriage. I think a lot of people feel like they should get married so I feel like I had a lot of friends that it was like well I'm 32 so this is the person I'm dating so I should get married because if I want to have kids then I gotta get married.

[46:44] Nikki Renee Daniels: You know what I mean?

[46:46] Teri Ralston: And then you watch those relationships develop and you know far be it for me to say that I have a perfect marriage but thankfully I have.

[46:54] Nikki Renee Daniels: Thankfully I am very happily married. I'm glad I got married.

[47:00] Teri Ralston: I feel like my life has been better since I got married but I think some people not necessarily and so that's once again part of her conflict is seeing these relationships that are complicated and you know sometimes negative depending on which couple she's with.

[47:16] Nikki Renee Daniels: There's I mean yeah every couple she's with really you see negatives to their relationships because that's what gives her pause about is this how I really want to is this the direction I want to take my life?

[47:28] Teri Ralston: You know so I think that they are all hilariously complicated as they should be to you know they should be to if everyone had this perfect little charming relationship then she'd be like well that's it I'm gonna get married it's perfectly clear to me.

[47:44] Nikki Renee Daniels: You know but I think that's part of why "Being Alive" is such a brilliant song you know someone to hold you too close someone to sit in your chair to ruin your sleep.

[47:56] Teri Ralston: It's like there's pros to being able to be by yourself and do everything the way you want to do it.

[48:00] Nikki Renee Daniels: You know there's compromises to be made when you are in a relationship with someone else and she's I think trying to decide if that's for her if she wants to compromise exactly what she wants in order to hopefully have more of a feeling of I don't know security is not the word just more of a feeling of wholeness I guess.

[48:22] Teri Ralston: It's cool that he was able to boil it down to "Being Alive" because that kind of when you're seeking for the term you're like yeah that does kind of sum it all up.

[48:34] Nikki Renee Daniels: Question: How is your life better for being married? Because if I'm being totally honest I don't think I was going to talk about this but I've been dating my guy we've been together for 12 years I think and we're still not married.

[48:50] Teri Ralston: He has a ring on it but it's probably also complex with guys because I was told most of my life that marriage wasn't for me by the society and then all of a sudden it was like now you can have it and I think on some level I was like well maybe I don't want it and then if I invite my family that might put them in an awkward situation so it was a loaded thing but why is your life better?

[49:14] Nikki Renee Daniels: You know there's someone who always has your back someone that you can always count on to be there for you not because they have to but because they want to.

[49:26] Teri Ralston: It can just be lonely.

[49:28] Nikki Renee Daniels: I mean and before I met Jeff I really was like serially single.

[49:34] Teri Ralston: I was like you know I was very I didn't mind you know a lot of friends of mine had boyfriends that were like not great and like that wasn't for me like as soon as someone showed themselves to be anything that I didn't like I'd be like okay I'm good bye you know like I didn't feel the need to just have a boyfriend just because or because I thought I should.

[49:54] Nikki Renee Daniels: It really was he just really is someone that I think is the best person that I know and makes me better in a lot of ways and is the most supportive person that I know and so he's just like the soft place to land for me.

[50:14] Teri Ralston: So and now that we have two kids of course we like rely on each other just from a technical standpoint of like getting kids to school and all of that but I choose him every day you know because I really love him.

[50:30] Nikki Renee Daniels: That's romantic my gosh.

[50:32] Teri Ralston: So yeah that's awesome do you knowing like your career and your specific schedule which a Broadway schedule is no joke like is that factor into who you chose to marry you know what I mean in terms of support?

[50:46] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah there weren't really apps when we started dating but you know I mostly dated actors just because that was who I met.

[50:52] Teri Ralston: I did like match.com I went on a few like internet dates and those were fine but I think for me back in the day it was kind of sketchy I'm not gonna lie I went on a few match.com dates and it was I don't know I didn't like it.

[51:10] Nikki Renee Daniels: But I mean it wasn't that I was like I have to marry an actor because they're the only person that will understand this life but it certainly is helpful to have someone that understands oh I'm gonna go to Chicago for nine months and fly back and forth every week and we have two kids so you're gonna like mostly take care of them is that fine?

[51:30] Teri Ralston: I don't know that someone who's not an actor would get it in that way so it worked for us really well.

[51:40] Nikki Renee Daniels: Jenny and what's Jenny's husband's name I forget.

[51:42] Teri Ralston: David.

[51:44] Nikki Renee Daniels: Thank you.

[51:46] Teri Ralston: Going to another couple another gender reversal in the revival it feels like David's the stay-at-home dad at least just by costuming, right?

[51:54] Nikki Renee Daniels: He picked it up absolutely.

[51:58] Teri Ralston: And Jenny is she's got her pencil skirt she's got her business on and she's probably bringing home the bread.

[52:06] Nikki Renee Daniels: Talk about that dynamic and working with Christopher Fitzgerald who's another comedic genius.

[52:12] Teri Ralston: I was so intimidated going into the rehearsal process just because you've got Fitz who is truly one of the funniest people I've ever met and seen on stage.

[52:22] Nikki Renee Daniels: I mean I knew his wife actually worked with his wife before in "Anything Goes" and I loved her I thought she was great Jessie Stone.

[52:30] Teri Ralston: She directed "Kimberly Akimbo" she's gotten into directing more in the past like decade but I first worked with her in that revival of "Anything Goes" with Sledge Foster and I understudied Hope in that so we would share a dressing room sometimes and I thought she was great and I'd seen Chris obviously in many a show most recently "Waitress" where he like had me howling in the aisles so I was so intimidated to be like I'm going to be in a scene with like three time Tony nominee Chris Fitzgerald who's like the funniest person ever and Katrina who's a Tony award winner and one of the most brilliant actresses like ever so I was super intimidated going into it because you know I don't have all those accolades I'm just like some Broadway singer girl but who's mildly hilarious I got energy.

[53:20] Nikki Renee Daniels: But I was just super intimidated going into it and actually I feel like a lot more confident having worked with them because we really like teased apart everything in the scene and like made it our own and even when we came back after COVID we like redid all the table work and like talked about everything again and like really even deepened the relationships.

[53:42] Teri Ralston: So it was really great just working with them both because they're so open and to just trying anything and I felt like our scene was especially difficult because in the 70s and when it had been done before it was sort of like they're getting high isn't that crazy like who does marijuana like it was like just the fact that they were smoking marijuana was like oh like taboo or something and now it's legal everywhere and yeah that was the joke so we're like how do we do this scene and make it relevant and still funny and Jenny's a successful lady she's you know her and Bobby were in our version of it her and Bobby were friends in college and her and Bobby and Jamie were good friends that was our story in college so we all knew each other forever because one thing Marianne wanted to focus on is which of us was Bobby's friend and the other was like her friend by association.

[54:40] Nikki Renee Daniels: Exactly so Bobby was like my friend but you know there was like a little bit of competitiveness between us I feel like or at least from Jenny's standpoint as far as my husband flirting with you and you know I could relate to Jenny as just like a woman trying to have it all you know like I talked about you know having a partner who's willing to be like yes I'll be the primary caretaker of the kids while you go and do "Hamilton" in Chicago you know or whatever and so I definitely related to her in that way being in an interracial marriage like that's my husband's wife so like that was we talked about just what is that you know especially the second time around after everything the racial reckoning that we've had in the United States with George Floyd and all that we brought all that in and discussed it not that it really has anything to do with the scene but it has to do with the relationship and we wanted the relationship to be crystal clear and all that and so just working with the two of them was really really awesome and Marianne has honestly changed how I will approach a character in rehearsal from this day forward because just the level of detail was such that I had never been a part of in a rehearsal process I had certainly done my homework and made up my mind about what my character was but to spend hours at a table in this scene that ultimately is like a hilarious comedic scene but just having all of those details underneath really I felt like made our relationship really true.

[56:10] Teri Ralston: The relationship between Fitz and I we got a lot of compliments that we really seemed like a married couple like we seemed really comfortable with one another which was one of the greatest compliments for me.

[56:20] Nikki Renee Daniels: The end of that scene is always so touching to me because Jenny says he hates getting high but he's doing it for me and Bobby's like no but he looks like he's having so much fun he's having fun for me to be able to recognize to know someone so well to recognize that what they are doing is actually a sacrifice in some way because they're doing it for you or is she just jealous so she has to put Bobby in her place by saying I know you think he's having so much fun because you brought this pot to our house but really oh my gosh my mind's being blown.

[57:10] Teri Ralston: So like when it's almost like a standoff he's doing this for me not you doll.

[57:16] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah and then she's like he didn't like it and then what did I say right before I turned and walked away she said something and I just went and then walked away like this conversation is done.

[57:30] Teri Ralston: In my view that's what it was about.

[57:32] Nikki Renee Daniels: No that's absolutely right but also I think absolutely true you know and I think that's probably why it was still emotional for me.

[57:38] Teri Ralston: I mean he was doing it he wouldn't have ever done anything like that without Jenny it's just not part of his personality right but the end of that scene you're trying to get rid of him and saying like I'm starving go make me food or like go start dinner.

[57:54] Nikki Renee Daniels: And then at the end of the scene, you said like I'm gonna go help him. What do you like? What do you think? What do you think about that?

[58:01] Teri Ralston: Yeah, what do you say? And that is kind of a challenge, right? Like, yeah.

[58:06] Nikki Renee Daniels: No, that was the lie. I got a note on that line every day. Just throw it away and then I throw it away and she's like, well it has to have like some meaning, like finding like the perfect... And to it was all about power dynamics, like who is the powerful person in the scene at the moment and that was sort of the moment when Jenny's like, it takes the power.

[58:32] Teri Ralston: Oh, that's so cool. Okay, a couple of other people that I want to touch on before you have to go. Let's talk about your other friend Jamie, right? Who was previously Amy and so like your backstory was that you three were friends in college? Jamie is getting married to Paul. And of course, there's this amazing song "Getting Married Today," legendary pattern song and to hear how Sondheim like really thought of the singer. Because I mean it's difficult but to try and craft a lyric that could easily come off the tongue as quickly as possible. Like he wasn't purposely trying to make it difficult for the actor. It's very cool to read how he did that.

[59:13] Nikki Renee Daniels: But when I first heard about this gender swap, this moment always felt a little problematic to me because I was like Bobby is going to try and marry her gay best friend. That sounds like now Bobby's not just like adorably lost, now Bobby seems full-on like gone. So, how do you think she justifies this as like a modern woman living in New York City to like marry a gay dude?

[59:38] Teri Ralston: Uh, well for me, I know my best friend, my Jamie is my friend Randy and when we were, you know, 28 or something we were like if we stay single, if we're single by the time we're 40, we're gonna marry each other so we could like adopt a kid or you could like, you know, donate some sperm or something, have someone to like, you know, at least we'll know we have each other to take care of each other for the rest of our lives, you know?

[1:00:04] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah, I mean, I guess.

[1:00:08] Teri Ralston: So for me, I just channeled that into it.

[1:00:13] Nikki Renee Daniels: No, that makes sense.

[1:00:15] Teri Ralston: Moment of like maybe they had that pact or maybe they discussed, well, if we're all single in our old age, we'll just marry each other so everyone will leave us alone and we'll know that we're taken care of.

[1:00:26] Nikki Renee Daniels: Well, and I guess that just also reveals my bias about what I define marriage to be, that it has to be this like deeply romantic commitment and at that point Bobby's probably looking at it as a partnership, like what's the best partnership I could find and maybe it's with my best friend, you know?

[1:00:39] Teri Ralston: Yeah, interesting. Okay, I buy it. Um, so fun that that leads into "Marry Me a Little" and there was rain and she's like having this breakdown in the rain and we were...

[1:00:55] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah.

[1:00:58] Teri Ralston: Did the rain get cut?

[1:01:01] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah, it was just causing the set to break down a lot and it was I think partially because of the water getting into everything, so they just cut the rain and probably right before I went on, so I never did it. But she had a whole plastic thing in two mics than a changing of the mic and it was a whole do to make the rain work.

[1:01:20] Teri Ralston: Okay. Well, it cut that rain. No one needs it.

[1:01:28] Nikki Renee Daniels: It was really interesting. So one of the things that I often talk about in musical theater is that we'll have this show like "My Fair Lady" where there's Eliza Doolittle and you know this incredible character, but she's just surrounded by men, which means that really there's only one good female character in "My Fair Lady" and like 17 amazing male characters. And the one thing about this gender flop is that it does get rid of a lot of amazing female characters.

[1:01:55] Teri Ralston: Yeah, namely Bobby's kind of boy toys. So she has these three guys that she's kind of been dating on and off in her past and in the original they were three girls. Of course, let's just kind of look at them real quick. We got the dumb one who's a flight attendant, we got sweet sexy but also like just clueless and knows it, which is kind of adorable. We got the perfect guy, kind of the one that got away. I love that scene between Bobby and Kathy or Theo because they reveal like, oh, I wanted to marry you really because I wanted to marry you but now it's too late. And the kind of the tragedy of that I guess it's always easier to pine over the one that got away than look for the one that's right for now.

[1:03:02] Nikki Renee Daniels: Right. Yeah, I mean, I think if Bobby and Theo were supposed to really be together it would have worked out. I think there was mostly it seems like based on the script she wasn't putting herself out there enough. She was a little bit closed off and he just got tired of playing that game, so he said I want a wife and that meant completely cutting things off with her, which you know, you always want, you don't know what you got till it's gone. She's like, oh.

[1:03:24] Teri Ralston: Huh? Wow, that's some healthy boundary setting.

[1:03:28] Nikki Renee Daniels: Then we also have kind of the rock and roller who sings "Another Hundred People." I mean, that song had to be in your book for a while, right?

[1:03:36] Teri Ralston: I love "Another Hundred People."

[1:03:39] Nikki Renee Daniels: Tangled with the Boston Symphony at Tanglewood.

[1:03:44] Teri Ralston: Yeah, so what is your take on New York? Because New York is the other character in the "Sex in the City" type way. Do you love the city? How do you feel about her? Does it depend on the day personally?

[1:03:51] Nikki Renee Daniels: Yeah, me personally. I love the city. I'm a city girl hands down. Like we were even in Maui, which is so beautiful and lovely, but I was like I couldn't imagine living here slow forever. Like I love the hustle and bustle and like if you can make it there you can make it anywhere. It's like tough and you know, of course, there's parts of it that I hate but in general like whenever I'm coming back to the city after 20 years of living here still I like get excited like yes.

[1:04:29] Teri Ralston: So, I love New York City and I think Bobby does too.

[1:04:33] Nikki Renee Daniels: I think you're right and there is a frenetic energy about it, especially in your revival. The choreography felt so like...

[1:04:40] Teri Ralston: Yeah.

[1:04:41] Nikki Renee Daniels: Fast, like I just did the choreography on Mike and nobody saw, but it was very fast and very almost anxiety-filled. And it felt tied to New York. I don't know if that was the...

[1:04:54] Teri Ralston: Yeah, but that was though Liam was always trying to tell us like arrest, like you stopped like in your tracks and then move and stop, you know, it's like...

[1:04:59] Teri Ralston: Oh, it's about like the stillness. Yes. Yeah. That's cool. All right, last character. I want to touch on Joanne, Lala Pone, who won a Tony for doing this, her number "The Ladies Who Lunch," you know, a three-act play, as Sondheim calls it, in which she talks about all of these different kinds of women at different stages in their lives. Now, I'm kind of, I've always been under the impression that Joanne is all of these women, that she's been all of these women at some point, but what do you think?

[1:05:34] Nikki Renee Daniels: I think the last verse is the one that she connects the most with and that she and Bobby both connect the most with, and so it's almost like a cautionary tale, I feel like, from Joanne to Bobby in that last verse. Here's to the girls who just watch, aren't they the best when they get depressed? It's a bottle of scotch plus a little jest. Whoo. Yeah, another chance to disapprove, another brilliant zinger, another reason not to move, another vodka stinger. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, the story, the backstory with Patti and Katrina at least was that they had met at some charity gala that Bobby had to go to for work, and Joanne was there as someone who had given a lot of money, and they met up at the bar and sort of just connected as the people on the outside kind of making fun of how ridiculous all of it is, you know, and sort of people watching and being funny and having their drinks. And so that's what I love gleaned from watching her sing that song, which was incredible to sit at that table.

[1:06:48] Teri Ralston: So, I mean, there's no one like her. She's just brilliant and in control every night, and yeah, she just knows just the audience so well and like just how exactly to do it. She's a legend. That's why she's a legend. I love the idea that this character, and she is the last, like this is the last moment before Bobby finally makes her wish, so to speak, that she is the mirror, right? Which is ultimately what good partners are, I think, for us, they're mirrors. But, and even in TikTok, you know, when Patti's character in the TikTok, when in our production, Bobby's watching Susan and Jenny and Sarah and Joanne all are dressed in different red versions of Bobby. So one's a single mom, that was me with a stroller in the briefcase and all that. One is if she had married Theo, one is if she had married PJ, and the other one is if she stays single and like is a party girl sort of the rest of her life, which is what I think I was focused on.

[1:07:55] Nikki Renee Daniels: Individual ones that I, yeah, I didn't see others. That's so fun. So Patti's the version of her that doesn't get married and comes in, stumbles in with some guy and sends him off, and she's like clearly a mess, you know, just by herself. And so Joanne is, when she sings "Ladies Who Lunch" to her, I feel like it's sort of connected to that TikTok. She's like, oh well, if you don't want to settle down, if you don't want to, then maybe that is what your life is gonna be? Hmm, which is not to say I think that if you don't get married...

[1:08:30] ⚠ About 4 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.