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[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are discussing the musical DAMN YANKEES, a listener request from a few of you, including Bob, who wrote in, told me how much he loves musicals, and like so many of us, got to know them by listening to the cast albums and reading the liner notes. But then he writes, quote, skip ahead to the 1990s where as a faculty member in political science at SUNY Cortland, I played old Joe Boyd in the college's production of DAMN YANKEES. Playing Meg Boyd was a local public school teacher with a gorgeous voice and many times more theater credits than me, Teresa.

Well, we fell in love and finally were able to marry in 2003. That production was directed by a good friend in the Cortland Theater Department, Tom Hishak, who was the guest on your show about Showboat. Yes, shout out, Tom. Unquote. What a beautiful, small, and crazy world. Bob then goes on, of course, to request DAMN YANKEES, and I'm grateful he did. So, here to chat with me about this show is a true triple threat. She's maybe most widely known for winning the role of Christine in the Broadway revival of A Chorus Line, which was documented in the film Every Little Step, iconic. She's also been seen in Chicago on Broadway, Fosse on tour, not to mention a couple productions of DAMN YANKEES thrown in there. So, she's created shows, podcasts, she's a teacher, we're thrilled to have her. Everyone, please welcome Chryssie Whitehead!

[2:13] Chryssie Whitehead: Yay! Thanks for having me, Jeff.

[2:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, so grateful you're here. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have to say, chorus line related, when that revival happened, and I had friends who saw it, and I'd say, how was it? On more than one occasion, they said, the Christine, though. And I was like, what an interesting review. But that's how iconic you were in that revival. Well done. People walked away from that revival being like, Christine was everything.

[2:44] Chryssie Whitehead: Well, I had the time of my life doing it, so it was like a symbiotic relationship with the audience and myself. It was really fun.

[2:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So special. So grateful you're here. Now, it's crazy to consider, but this might be one of the last episodes we ever do on the podcast of a quintessential Bob Fosse musical. We've covered basically all the rest of them: Pippin, Chicago, Sweet Charity, Pajama Game, How to Succeed. So, I want to begin by chatting about your relationship to his choreography, because it's obviously a big part of your career. When did you first become aware of his style and et cetera?

[3:24] Chryssie Whitehead: I was pretty sheltered, just focusing on competition dance as a dancer.

[3:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, competition dance. Okay, where did you grow up?

[3:37] Chryssie Whitehead: I grew up in South Carolina, in Columbia, and I went to a dance studio. Well, I was in a ballet company, so I got a great ballet training and foundation from William Starr at Columbia City Ballet. But then I found a dance studio that competed and brought me to L.A. and New York and opened my eyes and my heart to being a professional.

[3:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[3:57] Chryssie Whitehead: And what that looked like. And then when I was 18, the national tour of Fosse came to California, and I watched Shannon Lewis, Do I Gotcha? And I was like in tears, like it was in the third balcony, like far away up and still feeling. And I was like, and the whole show, I was just like, what is this movement? Like, what is this? And I have to feel it. I have to dance it like it just felt very like it could fit like a glove on me. But I didn't know.

[4:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[4:30] Chryssie Whitehead: And so that's how I found it. And I saw them and then I was like, I've got to do this show. So I auditioned pretty quickly after that.

[4:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then you just booked the dang thing.

[4:39] Chryssie Whitehead: I did. Crazy enough. I went to an open call with Anne Ryan King running it.

[4:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And you're like, I think I can do this. Pick me.

[4:51] Chryssie Whitehead: I mean, the best training I got was actually just coming to L.A. and New York in the summers and training with so many different teachers throughout the day. That's why I really love and welcome the newbies coming in while I teach at Steps and BDC in New York. And it just reminds me of that time where I was so hungry. And then I just never even took a Fosse class. I didn't we just it wasn't around then. I mean, I graduated in 98. So, I mean, the dancers were around, obviously, but they were dancing. So I got to work with, like, Lloyd Colbreth, who is Mr. Bojangles. And like, still, I just love and treasure him. And then later, you know, we are doing a show about Fosse. So I have to, like, give the greats to the greats, because, you know, I got to do it at National Tour Fosse with all these wonderful people. And then I ended up being on the trumpet solo. Like, I ended up doing the Elizabeth Parkinson track on the tour.

[5:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And it closed.

[5:43] Chryssie Whitehead: So Dailise was on the show.

[5:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, I was going to say, I'm hoping you had other people. We love dancers on this show, for sure.

[5:50] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah. Okay, great. So, yeah, I just ran into her actually on the street the other day. And she's just so fierce and beautiful. But, yeah, and Susie, Annie's protege. So I never got the chance to work directly with Gwen or with Anne Ryan King. I kind of came late in the game, but I just fell in love with the work and how much it was about less is more. And how much, even in how I teach and what I, it's all inside of me because I did the show for a year. And then I ended up doing Chicago for a year and going on for Velma as an understudy. And so I got to do that. Like, when you do something for eight shows a week, you know, it gets in your body. But, gosh, I would, I know the Fosse Burden Legacy are doing amazing things and still passing it on. And where I'm not a part of that, I support it tremendously.

[6:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's incredible. That's wonderful. And then, so when did Damn Yankees come into the play? Because you did it at Fifth Ave, right?

[6:44] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, and then I did Damn Yankees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny because I don't consider the Damn Yankees that I did any Fosse stuff because Dennis Jones didn't do any of that. Who, by the way, loved Dennis Jones as well. Yeah, it's great work. He went different. So I don't think of Damn Yankees as it was more, more Dennis. So it was cool. It was just different.

[7:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's awesome. You did it at Fifth Ave and then Goodspeed or Paper Mill, I forget.

[7:10] Chryssie Whitehead: Paper Mill.

[7:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Paper Mill. Amazing. Mark Hobie was my director. Dennis Jones was my choreographer. You know, you are correct in that, like even the 90s revival that Rob Marshall choreographed, that isn't necessarily Fosse choreography. But you look at this show and you see the DNA, the Fosse DNA in there because of essentially the structure. In the same way that you see the George Abbott structure built in there no matter how many times they mess with the script.

[7:41] Chryssie Whitehead: Keeping them on track, keeping it on track for sure.

[7:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure. What's crazy to consider, though, is Damn Yankees. So we're talking 1955. You can always remember when Damn Yankees opened because it was May 5th, 1955. Five, five, five, five. So Damn Yankees, it was the first musical that Fosse choreographed all by himself. Isn't that insane? He had done quite a bit before then. You know, he had his like big feature in Kiss Me Kate on film. He had done the big numbers in Pajama Game, but he wasn't allowed to choreograph the entire show. And then he kind of had all of these little specialty things in the beginning of his choreography career, but he had never been given a show to choreograph all by himself until Damn Yankees in 55. Now, what's interesting about that is that this is coming just the year after the Pajama Game, which, by the way, if you want to go back and listen, listen to our Pajama Game episode.

And so the entire crew from Pajama Game is returning just a year later to do a new show, a brand new show. So you have George Abbott, who's the director and also the book writer, Mr. Abbott, of course, as everybody called him. And he was adapting this really fun book that a lot of the country enjoyed called The Year the Yankees Lost the Pennant, which is by Douglas Wallop. Now, baseball fan, Chrissy?

[9:04] Chryssie Whitehead: My husband is. So by association?

[9:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amazing. Yes, absolutely. So we've gone to Yankees. I've gone to the Yankees game. I've gone to Mets. I've gone to both.

[9:13] Chryssie Whitehead: Wow.

[9:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I did. Oh my gosh. Well, I didn't know. Like, my husband knew we were dating and we moved to New York together. And I just knew he liked baseball. So I just found him and I bought him for his birthday. Like, I got tickets.

[9:25] Chryssie Whitehead: To the Mets.

[9:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then later I find out he's like, I really like the Yankees. So we go to the Yankees game.

[9:34] Chryssie Whitehead: That's incredible. That's like that's such a theater kid thing to do where you're like, there's this new show. Well, I'll get tickets to it. They're called the Mets, you know?

[9:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. You know.

[9:48] Chryssie Whitehead: I am not a huge baseball fan, but I want to be a baseball fan. I think of all the sports. It seems like the most fun to go to. They got good food, you know, like that's not good food, but I feel like it's a hang.

[10:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a hang.

[10:02] Chryssie Whitehead: You feel like it's too slow.

[10:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's so slow. I mean, it's like, give me the action.

[10:06] Chryssie Whitehead: Sure.

[10:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I've been watching soccer lately with the World Cup and I am all in that.

[10:10] Chryssie Whitehead: You're in?

[10:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm in. Because it's like the fancy footwork. You're like, how the heck are they?

[10:15] Chryssie Whitehead: Well, that is true. You know, like, I think it's really hard. I think baseball's really hard too. I think it's the pants. Now that you're talking about it.

[10:23] Chryssie Whitehead: That's true. The pants are amazing. Their bodies look amazing. I think the baseball pants are just kind of fantastic.

[10:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But the thing about soccer is that it's such a low scoring game. Does that not get old for you that you could watch an entire game and essentially maybe someone scores?

[10:38] Chryssie Whitehead: That's very true. I like it the second half.

[10:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, okay. Stakes are raising.

[10:43] Chryssie Whitehead: Stakes are raising and everyone's kind of like rushing to get down the thing. We also, I live in Washington Heights and we had an amazing viewing party at this, talk about theater and arts coming together like Damn Yankees. They had a viewing watch party at the freaking United Palace Theater here in Washington Heights. It's 3,500 seats. It's stunningly gorgeous. And we all went in and watched on the stage a projector of one of the games in the World Cup. And it was exhilarating.

[11:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How freaking fun is that?

[11:15] Chryssie Whitehead: Everybody was so fun and they were singing and you felt like you were in the audience. Like it was Portugal versus Colombia and they were going, Colombia, Colombia, Colombia. And I was all about it. I was like, let's go. Let's do, let's go. Yes. Yes. Yes, Colombia.

[11:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's just hilarious. I'm a bit, no. So a big Brene Brown fan over here.

[11:36] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, yes.

[11:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We love Brene.

[11:38] Chryssie Whitehead: Yes, yes, yes.

[11:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And she often talks about sports being leadership theater. That like you can go into a game or a specific sporting event and just essentially watch leadership play out in a very theatrical way in real time because of the relationships and the high stakes and everything. And I both agree with that. And also will say that sports are incredibly theatrical.

[12:06] Chryssie Whitehead: It's so drama.

[12:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So drama, you guys.

[12:09] Chryssie Whitehead: There's drama.

[12:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like more drama than me.

[12:11] Chryssie Whitehead: There's drama for your mama.

[12:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, I will say that you say that. I think that's the most dramatic I've seen in athletes. Because I used to cheer. I was a cheerleader and I loved sports growing up. I was around it a lot. But the athletes in soccer, they like, any soccer fans out there, they're literally like, they'll fall and they're like, ah. And you think that they are out of the game. And then in two seconds later, it's for a foul. They're all like acting for fouls.

[12:40] Chryssie Whitehead: Playing to the back of the house, you guys. I mean.

[12:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know if they realize that they do have cameras.

[12:48] Chryssie Whitehead: I think they do.

[12:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They can pull it back.

[12:53] Chryssie Whitehead: I kept saying to my husband, because this is the first time I've ever watched it. I was like, baby, is this drama? Are they doing that on purpose? And he was like, a little bit. People play into it to see what the referees are going to catch. And by the way, people are like, oh, soap operas are going away. No, they're not. Just watch SportsCenter. Go watch your stories about who's fighting with who and who joined what team and left that person. It's all the soap operas.

[13:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure. Anyway, we digress on soccer.

[13:26] Chryssie Whitehead: Sorry.

[13:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, but I love it. It just goes to show how much we have in common. Even though we think sports people, theater people. Truly, we're all here for the same thing. We're all here for camaraderie. We're all here for watching the underdog. We want the character that's going through it to get through it to the other side. Just like we want the underdog. But somebody's always going to lose in sports. Whereas I think in musical theater, we all wrap it up in a bow. And everyone wins. Who could ask for anything more? Which I also love. But it also, I love sports musicals. I'm just going to say that. Because they make for kind of a great little kismet partnership. And this is the first time that baseball, this kind of American iconic sport, made its way into an American iconic art form of musical theater.

And when I was trying to figure out what show to do for July, because we've already done 1776, but we are celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States and everything. I was like, maybe Damn Yankees is a fun thing to throw in here this month. Because there is something very American about baseball. And about how enthusiastic people are about their teams and about their communities. And about, I mean, this whole show and the whole book that inspired it is based on people hating how good the Yankees were. Like what an interesting phenomenon. Just wanting to see the big dog go down.

[15:04] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah. In the musical, we never see the Yankees. They're talked about, but they're not actually characters. They're just kind of this other entity. What we're focusing on are the Washington Senators, which is also kind of hilarious. Now, in addition to Mr. Abbott adapting the book, directing, we also have the same composing team as The Pajama Game, Jerry Ross and Richard Adler. And once again, just to point out the important context, just the season before The Pajama Game had come out and was this huge, huge hit. And then less than a year later, Damn Yankees comes out with a whole new score and is also a huge, huge hit. Talk about a back-to-back. That does not happen very often.

[15:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Has it happened? I mean, has it happened recently? I don't even know.

[15:57] Chryssie Whitehead: Not recently, that's for sure. Because I think that a lot of composers, after they finally, you know, work so hard to get their new musical to Broadway, they're like, all right, I did it. I think we're done. I think we're good here, because that's going to take me another nine, ten years. You know what I mean?

[16:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly, exactly. So the fact that this happened really does kind of show how different Broadway was in the 1950s, but also how grateful I am that it was, because right after Damn Yankees opens, Jerry Ross dies.

[16:30] Chryssie Whitehead: I just saw that. Yeah, that's shocking.

[16:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At 29, at the age of 29, he had this crazy lung condition, and he was gone. And it's not like you could just find a different lyricist, because Adler and Ross did both. You'll notice in both of their shows, it's music and lyrics by both of them, which is also incredibly collaborative and interesting. You can't really think of another. So it's not like you just grab a new lyricist, and it has the same sound or vibe. These two really kind of created something special.

[17:05] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah.

[17:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's so sad that we only got two out of them, but I'm grateful that the two that we did get were such kind of colossal hits. Well, also then, too, it also is inspiring, right? I mean, it inspires the next writer. If they're like, okay, now that was a hit. Why is that a hit? How can I put my stamp on it? Which is the same thing with Fosse and choreography and stuff like that too. It's like these people come in our lifetimes, and then they go. It's up to us to stand on their shoulders and see what we can do on those giant shoulders and be like, okay, thank you for opening that up. What if we opened up this?

[17:39] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, incredibly. Thank you. That's beautifully said. All right, so Fosse's on board. Adler and Ross are on board. The producers decide pretty early on that this character of Lola, who is essentially the vixen, who is Satan's little helper, if you will, that they wanted a dancer, like a dancer-dancer for this role. I believe they offered it to Mitzi Gaynor. She turned it down.

[18:03] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, shit!

[18:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right? Sorry, Mitzi. Boop! It was a bad choice. But then just a couple of years earlier, Gwen Verdon had won a Tony Award and made a huge, huge splash in the musical Can-Can. She really only had one song, but she stole the show. There's the very funny story that she ran offstage to change, and the audience was chanting to have her come out for more applause and bows, but she was already through her quick change, and so she had to just throw on a towel and come out to receive more of the applause, which is so fun and such great lore, but also is so tied to her playful sexuality. Gwen was always sensual and beautiful, but also kind of hilarious and fiery and redhead. Can you talk to me about her?

[19:59] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, I mean, I think the sexiest quality in any woman is the ability to not take themselves too seriously and have fun and crack themselves up and play. Play is everything. So when I watch her, and even recently I've watched her do it again, just like it's such the different type of seduction than when we think of what seduction is. She's just inherently herself in that playful mode, and that is intoxicating. It's intoxicating to watch a woman just get excited about something in life rather than trying to be, we can all be the idea of Lola. And she didn't do that. She set the bar and set the tone that you can be playful and sexy, and that really is sexy. And I like to try and present that and invite that in my dancers when I teach of like we can all do, boom, we can all do that. But if you can do let's go, let's play, let's try to invite some joy in it, then you're like people are on board. Then it's dynamic.

[20:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because it's hard to do.

[20:09] Chryssie Whitehead: It's dynamic, but it's hard to do for women because we're so different. Generations have different expectations, but my generation definitely has those of what women should look like and be. And I think she's the quintessential darling. She's delicious to watch, and she has fun doing it. So when she's having fun, I'm having fun watching her, and that's a big rule of thumb with performing.

[20:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I completely agree. Thank you for that. It feels like we fluctuate a little bit in our current society between being Instagram perfect serious to being deeply unserious. They feel like they both come from a sense of insecurity, whereas when you go back and watch Gwen Verdon do whatever Lola wants, and God bless that film version because it's literally what she did on stage. Amazing. You see, like you're saying, how she's powerful and silly, and that also goes into the character, which I'm really excited to chat about, because this is not just some woman without history who's pretty for the sake of being pretty. She has her own story. She has her own motivations and is also maybe even a little bored with her job.

[21:32] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, especially the top. It's like I can do X, Y, and Z. I've got all of it. Don't worry about it. I got it.

[21:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I got this. I got this. So with Lola, she is seducing somebody, but she also might be entertaining herself a little bit, and I love that.

[21:52] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah. She's having a good old time because she knows she can.

[21:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that's a fun way of looking at it for sure. I'm just going to go into it, but one of the things that got to me about Lola was the fact that she did sell her soul to be the prettiest woman in the world, and that was the hardest thing for me to do when I first got into it. Listen, I think there's not one person in this universe that's not insecure about something, no matter how hard we work on it, no matter what. Some people are really deeply insecure. Some people are a little bit insecure. We're on the spectrum of everything, I feel like. No one's got it all together. But I think when that happened, it's those moments where you're like, if only I looked like, if only I looked like, and I remember when I felt that way about Penelope Cruz.

I just wanted to look something exotic and not white. I remember being like, if only I could just, God, she's so gorgeous and sexy and fun. And then for Lola, me as Lola, to go, yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. If you can keep me living forever, and I'm going to walk through life living forever looking like Penelope Cruz, that's how I paralleled myself as Lola in there. I was like, okay, I think I can do that. Where do I sign? Where do I sign? And that can happen thinking that that's going to give you, just like Joe and Faust, thinking like that's going to give you the happiness that you want by looking at this person. But now you're living forever. You're living forever. You don't die. With the secret nobody knows, which is that you don't believe you're enough. That sounds like a punishment. Woo!

[23:29] Chryssie Whitehead: Woo! And you have to live like that even though you don't believe you're enough, but you look in the mirror and you can see how gorgeous you are. You're never going to age. Torture. Torture. So I think that that was one of the things that I was drawn to but also nervous about. That opening moment, they had me in the production coming up out of an elevator, but with smoke. I was coming up from hell. It was amazing.

[24:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How fun.

[24:04] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, and it was like, and I was in this, Alejo Valetti, I've got to give him props, did the costume designs for me, and he is just brilliant and made me feel like a million dollars in these costumes. But I came up just like, and I remember doing that and I remember feeling like I'm a fraud because I was like, you know what I mean? I'm like, I got Lola. Now I have to act like the most gorgeous person in the world. She doesn't come into play until 45 minutes into play.

[24:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 45 minutes.

[24:25] Chryssie Whitehead: I'm like hanging out like, and you're talking to like dancer, dancer first, right? He went to acting and did all that stuff later and I'm here and I've made it and I'm 30 years old and people are giving me a role that I have dreamed I could do at the most prestigious regional theaters and I'm starting to feel like a fraud and so it took me a second. So my first production with Paper Mill, I didn't feel locked in and then I got my feelings hurt so badly because the New York Times reviewed and I read it and it said that the whole show is amazing, you know, everything was great. The one disappointing flaw in the show was Chrissy Whitehead as Lola. Now, granted, it's one person's opinion. I know, but it's the freaking New York Times.

You know, and I was like, huh, so that kind of got me and then I thought, well, I get another chance and then I went to a different team and this team, I fell in love with this woman named Mary. She put me in a wig that made me look like Elizabeth Taylor and I looked different. I felt it was a different wig than I had at Paper Mill and she was like, hey, I want to like sass you up even more. Is this okay? And I was like, I'm down and then I did and then I started to feel like, hey, it's an act, so come on, Chrissy, you know how to act, so do that act. You can still feel not enough, but you do that act because we do it all the time. Everyone's doing it, you know, and then I was able, my favorite part about Lola was breaking down into human again.

[26:11] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah. She starts here and then her arc is like taking her down a couple rungs. It is and my favorite number on the whole show was Two Lost Souls. Doing that with Joe Hardy and realizing like he's gonna get to go, he loves his wife, he's gonna go back to his wife, he gets a chance to go back to the life that he was in. I'm stuck. I can't go back and so I really like drop in with him. I'm like, Two Lost Souls, you know, it's just like on the highway of life. So for a second, I actually feel like we've got each other, but I know that that's not gonna be the case when he leaves. But in that moment, I hold on to it. And that was my main thing for her is I wanted people to see, I wanted people to feel for Lola. It wasn't about a spectacle of Lola. I mean, yes, I got to do many things and I could dance and I could show all my triple threat, which I just, that word drives me crazy. Triple arts, you know.

[27:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[27:13] Chryssie Whitehead: Pick a couple. Pick a couple. So anyway, that's at that. So it's very exciting to talk about this when I haven't played this part in like 14 years, you know, and I know it's coming back to Broadway, which is so exciting.

[27:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know. It's gonna be very exciting to see what it's gonna be.

[27:27] Chryssie Whitehead: For sure. You gave us a perfect segue into Faust because this legend, this famous German legend Faust is the basis of so much storytelling and certainly Damn Yankees isn't the only one in musical theater. Little Shop of Horrors is also that way. But for this episode, I wanted to go back a little bit and get a little more specific in what's in that original legend. It's not just selling your soul or, you know, making a deal with the devil. Right. I think we kind of boiled it down to that for Faust, but specifically with the original legend. It's this character who has quite a lot and they decide to give it all up because of this one thing that they can't stop thinking about, you know, and so Faust is successful.

He has a great life. He's just unsatisfied and it's through this deal with the devil that you unfortunately realize what you lost and in many ways, Damn Yankees is then maybe the truest representation of that legend in our musical theater because at the beginning of the show, we meet Joe, old Joe, and he's got a wife who loves him. He's got a house. He's lived a long life, right? He has a sport that he loves, but because he's so consumed, as we can sometimes be, with sports or theater or whatever it is, he can't see anything other than, oh, if only my team could win the pennant and that's enough for the devil himself to materialize in the form of Mr. Applegate and create this bargain for him or this deal and say, I'll turn you into what you want, which is essentially a savior to come and help your team win.

[29:27] Chryssie Whitehead: What I also didn't remember is that Joe used to be a baseball player when he was younger. It's not that he just loves baseball. The dream got away.

[29:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep, exactly. And so this is a chance to kind of reclaim that. And so it makes perfect sense that even Applegate, when Joe finally says, yes, let's do it, Applegate says, well, go grab your bat and shoes. He's kept his old stuff. He's kept his bat. He's kept his cleats.

[30:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then when he's taken to the Washington Senators to have his like little tryout, he goes to put on his shoes. And you know, after having been transformed into this young Joe Hardy, he can't get those shoes on. He needs to borrow someone else's shoes. And then that's, of course, how he gets the nickname Shoeless Joe.

[30:19] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, right, right, right. Oh, yeah. When I mentioned earlier about the structure of the show, everything has a reason. And it all kind of has a payoff. It's also an old show. I remember seeing a production a few years ago, and realizing, oh, like, when this show was created, there were still a lot of blackouts. Like, like, I think we forget that you used to just turn off the lights and like, rearrange the set, and then the lights, and then go to the next scene. And they're like, we have made things through people like Michael Bennett and Bob Fosse, for sure, made things so much more cinematic. So I do think that you said the show's coming back this year, and every time it's revived, they have messed with the story to keep, maybe keep things going a little bit more cinematically, but the structure remains.

Okay, I want to tell you real fast, if you wouldn't mind. Damn Yankees was the second show I ever did as a child. My first show was Peter Pan. Love Peter Pan. And then the local community theater was doing Damn Yankees. And the two things I remember most about this show was number one, it felt like my first big moral predicament or dilemma as a performer in that I didn't know if I should say the word, the D word.

[31:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, wow. You know, when I was on stage in the opening number, those damn Yankees, why can't we beat them? Yeah, I was like, little Jeffrey over here, I'm not supposed to swear. I'm not supposed to say these words. And so I, Utah, Utah, okay, very small town in Utah, but with a community theater, God bless them. Yeah. And so I made the decision, well, when I'm on stage, I will say, damn. But when I'm off stage, I will call this show Darn Yankees.

[32:22] Chryssie Whitehead: All right, Darn Yankees. Yes. So I was in a production of Darn Yankees. That's just where you're at. That's where I was at. That's so cute. But it's a show that has like, you know, had multiple high school productions, multiple community theater productions. And even though I like to laugh at me feeling like it was controversial, it was a little controversial. This is a time when it premiered on Broadway. You couldn't say damn on radio stations. You know, so like, how do you publicize? How do you market a show whose title you can't say aloud?

[33:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fascinating, especially for that time I had, like, that they even chose to title it that.

[33:05] Chryssie Whitehead: Exactly. Right. They didn't have to. The name of the book is not Damn Yankees. So there's a little bit of controversy there. It took some time for the ticket sales to pick up, but then once it did, it ran and ran over a thousand performances.

[33:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I saw that. The other thing I remember from doing Damn Yankees when I was little is that when I first heard Lola's big number, A Little Brain's Little Talent, I didn't understand the rhyme scheme. I took the zing out of the king of Siam. Why did we end at Siam? Like, that doesn't rhyme with anything else. And now I hear the inner rhyme, and it totally makes sense to me. But it goes to show the originality of Adler and Ross. They have some really cool, unusual things to their lyric writing and even to their music, which is often inspired by one of their mentors, Frank Lesser. Anyway, it's always very interesting and very cool. What are some of the other numbers that you like?

[34:12] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, I was obsessed with Shula's Joe. I was obsessed with it. In fact, I was so obsessed with Dennis Jones' choreography with Shula's Joe and Nancy Anderson playing Gloria. I would be in the wings every night, dressed, ready to go in nines. I just was pumping, like watching these dancers just kill it on the dance floor. And I really had envy. I really had envy to be in the number and to be even Gloria rather than Lola.

[34:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Isn't that, oh, that's interesting.

[34:48] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, just because I thought Gloria was so much more fun. I was so caught up in that first production of trying to be the thing that Lola is to people, the iconic. And then when I saw Nancy just be so awesome, I mean, she's just so game and so fantastic and can do everything that I was just really, really inspired by her. So she came and she came to Seattle as well. So I love Shula's Joe. Dennis' choreography was fantastic.

[35:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love athletic choreography.

[35:18] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, me too. As a dancer, me too. I'm tall, but I like feeling the ground and earth. I mean, Whatever Lola Wants is so big to me because it's just so fun and playful. And then I ended up writing my own show and I put Whatever Lola Wants in my show. But it's whatever crazy wants, crazy gets. And it's about a section in my show. It's my it's kind of like a memoir. It's based on mental health. It's based on me and my mom's story. It's called In My Own Little Corner. It's a film now, and it'll be on streaming services by the holidays.

[35:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, congrats.

[35:59] Chryssie Whitehead: Thank you. Thank you so much. We worked on it for like four years. It's amazing. It's amazing in the sense the process was incredible. But putting that number in and getting the rights for that number, I sing all covers. So that was a journey as well. So I'm a producer as well. I have my own production company and a nonprofit. So there's all other hats that I wear. But this one is my favorite because I got to change the words. And so we got the rights to do that. And I just kept saying whatever Chrissy wants. And each time in the song, I give a scenario, a little saga with men, so you will. And then it turns sinistery, because at the end, there's a turn. And I love that. So that it's not just all playful.

It's people are laughing, people are laughing, but then I put myself in dangerous situations and boom. And so you're hearing boom, boom, boom, boom, and silence. And it's cool. So to be able to use their music and infuse it in my own storytelling with my life and my mental health diagnosis, it's just like, been an incredible thing to be able to put other people's, like I said, that inspire you. That music is so inspiring. And then my orchestrator, Nick Wilders, put it together. And then there's like this gorgeous, like, violin in it. I mean, it's stunning what you can play with that song. And then just a caveat on top of that, I actually was coaching someone auditioning for Undersetting on Broadway for this.

And so I got to hear a new version. And there's a part in there that's harrowing, harrowing. And I love it. I was like, this is another element of Lola that we definitely need to feel and see. And I love it. I mean, I have chills thinking about it. It's beautiful. It's just beautiful music. So yeah, I would say that Lola wants boom, boom, boom. That's just so cool.

[38:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, they're so good at finding that heartbeat of the song. Like even something as silly and fun as Hernando's Hideaway, right? In Pajama Game. Or Steam Heat. They know how to find these rhythms that really sink in and are a perfect match for, like you said, the minimalism that Fosse can really tap into. Less is more. It still works. We don't have to do so much, you know?

[38:28] Chryssie Whitehead: Once again, I appreciate the groundwork that these people established from the beginning.

[38:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally.

[38:34] Chryssie Whitehead: Because if we were to go to Damien Keyes and see Lola, like, round off Backhand Spring full layout, we'd be like, what is happening?

[38:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or she's like, Lola, Lola!

[38:47] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, just so busy.

[38:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Someone take away the sugar or the cocaine, whatever's going on back there.

[38:55] Chryssie Whitehead: It's too much. It's too much. Let's talk a little bit about her backstory. Mr. Applegate, Satan has no interest in who wins baseball. He doesn't care. What he's interested in is the soul, right? In keeping Joe as one of his souls.

[39:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That power, yes. Thank you. The thing, though, is that Joe is still so dedicated to his wife. And I gotta say, put a pin in that. Sometimes with these older shows, and I often use my spoiled ketchup word to describe some of the things that don't age well in shows, but I kind of expected to return to Damien Keyes and be like, what a tool this guy is for leaving his wife. But between the Goodbye Old Girl song, which is just so heartfelt, and the fact that he really is trying to play both sides of the coin, and maybe that is his Achilles heel, but he is trying his hardest to do both, to do his deal with the devil and then also create this escape clause, because he's in real estate, an escape clause that allows him to get out right at the last minute.

And the more that Mr. Applegate sees that he's continuing to think about his wife, to be around his wife, to move back into his old house so he can be around his wife as this new young hotshot, he's like, crap, I need to figure out something else besides baseball to get his soul. Cue Lola, who is his go-to seductress. Can you talk a little bit about her, do you believe she was the most ugly woman in the world, or is that kind of...

[40:37] Chryssie Whitehead: I mean, I took that for literal. I mean, I can only imagine if I was born... I looked it up. I did all that stuff. I'm such an actor. I was looking up people of in history, women, or just people who've been born with deformities, or what if I was born like that, and that's all I had, in a world full of people that looked different than me.

[40:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A different way, yeah.

[40:59] Chryssie Whitehead: A different way, then I thought, well, hell yeah, I'd probably do that, and say, why not? And also, I had to have been super low. It's almost like if you're giving someone else your life, so if you're doing that, then how low am I? And when I did Lola, I was... My mom was still alive. So I actually wasn't tapped into what that lowness could be, now that I think about it. I haven't thought about this, but my mom died in 2013, and I did Lola, and I think in 2012, and she was really sick, but she came to see me do the show at Paper Mill. But I hadn't experienced what that kind of low was like, and then my mom slowly took her life. And so, in doing that, and me watching that unfold, and her being so low that she couldn't get out, she couldn't see through, and she just stopped eating, and bathing, and brushing her teeth. I mean, it is pretty tragic, not to... You can take this or leave this, I don't care, I talk openly about this. But...

[42:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I appreciate it.

[42:09] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, but my mom was my biggest fan. And so, when she died, I was in such a low state, to the point of I needed to get on medicine, I was severely depressed, and didn't want to dance, didn't want to talk, didn't want to be on stage, very scared, very low. And luckily, I had a couple people in my life that I could lean into, and then people say to me, because I kept thinking, what's the point? And we just lost Josh, and I don't know Josh, and Mr. Grissetti, and I never met him. And did you know him?

[42:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I met him once out here on the West Coast, and then, of course, have friends who were best friends with him, but yeah.

[42:52] Chryssie Whitehead: So, another soul, another soul lost. So, I think Lola was a very sad soul who didn't have anybody, and then all of a sudden, somebody says to you, I can make your life beautiful. I can make it better with a pill, with a whatever, and then if you look at it in that way, then you see her as so much more human, because we're all lost souls in some way.

[43:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, absolutely. That's such a great point. Thank you for sharing that.

[43:22] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah.

[43:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I so appreciate you sharing all of that, because these journeys are throughout this piece. These are people who, for whatever their circumstances might be, and they all have different circumstances. They make choices that they think will make their lives better, inviting people into their lives that shouldn't be there. I mean, how relatable. We all have done this.

[43:54] Chryssie Whitehead: Yep. And still do it. I mean, sometimes we don't learn the lesson, and we can't learn the lesson, we don't see the lesson, and we do it again.

[44:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As the show continues, not even Lola can make Joe crack. And so, then Mr. Applegate turns to Gloria Thorpe, who is the local press reporter, and she was the one who gave him the nickname of Shoeless Joe.

[44:19] Chryssie Whitehead: Yes, yes.

[44:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And he plants this little story that Joe might actually be Shifty McCoy, which now that I say it out loud.

[44:28] Chryssie Whitehead: Shifty McCoy?

[44:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Shifty McCoy.

[44:32] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, Shifty McCoy. What's making you laugh about it?

[44:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because it's just so ridiculous.

[44:40] Chryssie Whitehead: Sometimes you explain plots of musicals out loud, and you're like, of course, Shifty McCoy.

[44:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's funny. Anyway, but it's this guy who was in the Mexican League, and then like, threw some games in order for, I don't know, Cali or something to win. And so, then he got kicked out and disappeared. And so, anyway, Applegate is spreading these rumors that maybe Joe is this guy. And the reporter runs with it. It comes out in the newspaper. And now he has to be in this court case. This is all in the original script. And I highly doubt that it's going to be in the revival.

[45:25] Chryssie Whitehead: But I think it's the dialogue and the sides that I saw, it's like more current. It's a little bit more current. It's like now.

[45:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Cool. I mean, I'm down. I'm interested.

[45:34] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah. Originally, though, especially in the 1950s and 60s, every great musical ended with a court case. Everybody in a courtroom. And so, he's in this little interrogation to kind of waste the time and ensure that he can become one of Applegate's lost souls.

[45:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's kind of how the original script was, is that he was just trying to run the clock out.

[46:04] Chryssie Whitehead: Right. He was keeping it because they had a certain, they had a deal, right?

[46:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, they had this deal. He has the escape clause.

[46:11] Chryssie Whitehead: And that's what they're talking about, the two lost souls. That's before that they sing, I think that they're talking about.

[46:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Because Lola drugs Applegate, right, to give him a couple of hours to figure things out.

[46:21] Chryssie Whitehead: And in that time, I know there's a little roofie type thing.

[46:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my God.

[46:25] Chryssie Whitehead: At least in the 1950s, Lola's doing it to Applegate, not the other way around.

[46:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is true. That is true. But yes, that is where the great song Two Lost Souls comes in to play.

[46:36] Chryssie Whitehead: I mean, oh, gosh, every time you think whatever Lola wants, then you're like, what about Who's Got the Pain? And then you're like, wait, what about Two Lost Souls? What about Shoeless Joe? There's there are so many great numbers.

[46:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So many great numbers. I do have to shout out Who's Got the Pain, which-

[46:51] Chryssie Whitehead: Yes, Who's Got the Pain. Random song, though.

[46:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, it feels very Steam Heat from Pajama Game, where they go to this union rally. And then they're like, come on, union, get hot, I guess.

[47:06] Chryssie Whitehead: But in Damiki's, it's a similar thing.

[47:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They're going to a rally for Joe.

[47:11] Chryssie Whitehead: And then his fan club that Lola has now joined is performing Who's Got the Heat.

[47:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who's got the pain when they do the mumble?

[47:21] Chryssie Whitehead: Oh, Who's Got the Pain. My gosh, I'm confusing Steam Heat.

[47:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Says Steam Heat. Makes sense. In the movie, we get to see Bob and Gwen dance together. It's such beautiful brilliance. And you see it in that way done so well. It's a little bit a lot of pressure to like, take it and spin it on its head and do something different, which is what we did. And it was fun. I had four guys, four of the baseball players. I was in like heels and like more mambo kind of Who's Got the Pain when they do the mambo? Who's got the pain? So we kind of went there in that direction. And it was super fun. So I mean, watching watching the two of them and just, I don't know, I don't know why we are drawn to certain things, you know, but like, drawn to him and drawn to her and how they move together and how they...

[48:09] Chryssie Whitehead: I am just in awe of what people can come up with in their bodies.

[48:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's where they met. It led to a famous marriage, a famous divorce, but also just a famous lifelong collaboration.

[48:21] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, yeah. The show ends with Joe taking his escape clause. He gets turned back into old Joe right at the very end of this game, but still manages to win it for the Washington senators.

[48:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The senators beat the Yankees. Joe returns home, his wife, Meg is excited to welcome him home. And now I am just remembering that one of the other things that I experienced as a fifth grader was being behind the main. They sing their like little end duet.

[48:57] Chryssie Whitehead: You gotta have heart.

[49:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And there was a spittle between the two older people as they were coming away from a kiss. And I just remember being like, grownups are disgusting. Why are they spitting on each other?

[49:14] Chryssie Whitehead: Why are they spitting on each other? I'm like, I'm trying to think. There's so much beauty into this, you know?

[49:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean, you're finding the spit, which is hysterical. But I'm looking at the song list right now. And the near to you, these are the good to us souls. Oh, gosh, all of those songs are so sweet. A man doesn't know. So yeah, I think I've always been drawn to the Yankees because of the human element. I have been a person my whole life, unsatisfied. And then I meet my husband, which is hilarious. He's walking in the door right now. Hey, hubs. And he's probably one of the most content. You know, he's one of those people that just is good with life. So you see, I think what's really interesting when we do shows, where we are in our lives when we're playing these parts. You're a fifth grader and you get that moment of like, oh, right.

But I'm 30. I'm 32. I meet my husband when I'm 35. And I'm constantly chasing and chasing and chasing that thing that we're all that a lot of us do in this business. If only then I'll be very happy. And then I'll be also so happy once I have that Broadway debut. But then the Broadway show closes. And then you're back at square one again, right? And I was lucky enough to meet someone who is not in the business. A, but that doesn't mean anything. But B is someone who really is in the moment day to day. And doesn't have to do a lot to be content. In fact, I don't think I've really ever met anyone like that until I met him. Because I think the people that I surround myself with, right, are creatives and artists.

And there's always an itch, you know, and I'm happy to have an itch. And I'm happy. I'm very happy to be who I am. But he is my Meg. You know, and that he is, and we can drive each other crazy. And nobody has anything perfect.

[51:19] Chryssie Whitehead: Absolutely not. But we're now 10 years in together. And I look at that scene at the end. And he comes back to his wife. And that would be me being Joe. And wanting to do all the things and be like, yeah, but this is just so boring. Like, you're just so easy to just sit here. Like, why are we just sitting here, you know? And then I come back and be like, I'm ready to be with you. And...

[51:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Can we please be boring together?

[51:43] Chryssie Whitehead: Can we be boring together? Yeah, can we? Or at least can I do it a little bit more than I've done before? Can I try?

[51:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And that's, I mean, we're watching ET right now. And it's taken me, we're on day three to finish this movie because I fall asleep. Like, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying to like sit still and like, you know. But then you sit still and the eyes go whoop.

[52:10] Chryssie Whitehead: Yes, I sit still and I'm not working on any choreography or anything. I'm like...

[52:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So anyway, but I do, I still think we all ultimately want that best friend. I think that's what's so beautiful about Damien Keyes is that he ends up back with his wife. He ends up back with a partner to walk through life with. And I love that Lola gets that moment at the end. Applegate's still trying to get his soul. And she, like, I think her last lines in the script are, Joe, Joe, there's that longing, right? Of what you're saying.

[53:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you for sharing. I think that there's the sheer entertainment of the show, but there's a lot of humanity to be found. And thank you for highlighting that for us today.

[53:17] Chryssie Whitehead: What a great conversation about this musical. I love, that's one of the reasons why I love my show. Oh gosh, what a horrible thing to say. No, but one of the things I'm very grateful for with this podcast is sometimes I can't predict what these shows bring out in us. And that is what the cultural and emotional impact is of art, right? So thank you for this conversation.

[53:20] Chryssie Whitehead: Thank you.

[53:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me. Email me at a musical podcast at gmail.com. I love hearing from you all there. I also love connecting with everyone over at Patreon exclamation point, which by the way, I remember Kevin, one of our subscribers over at Patreon exclamation point, wrote me about loving the structure of Damn Yankees. It was a quote, something like, all roads lead back to Damn Yankees, which I thought was so sweet. And I've remembered that. So thank you, Kevin. And thank you to all of our wonderful subscribers. We have bonus episodes, polls, all sorts of essays and things for you to explore over there for only a few dollars a month.

Join us on social media. We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok and share our content so that our community can grow as big as possible. We also have our TeePublic store. And if you're feeling generous, you can buy something there. The profits that we receive from those purchases go to Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS. More than anything, I'm grateful you're here. Please stick around. The world needs you. Chrissy, thank you again for bringing so much of yourself and so much humanity to this episode. Can you please help us know how we follow you? And feel free to plug anything that you have coming up.

[54:37] Chryssie Whitehead: Well, thank you so much again for having this conversation with me and for bringing me back into the biz a little bit, you know, because I feel like I've been out of it a lot. I'm coaching a lot now and teaching. And sometimes I direct and choreograph. But you can follow me at Chrissy Whitehead on social media. And you can follow In My Own Little Corner Productions. So it's IMOLC Productions is our show. Be on the lookout. We're doing a huge world premiere of the documentary I directed about the show and me doing the show with 44 people. And then having it filmed for everyone to have a piece of what this is for me to share my story and hope it helps others to feel less alone in their struggles with mental health.

And then, yeah, I think that's about it. Chrissy Whitehead, In My Own Little Corner Productions. And I just appreciate reminiscing on a time in my life and in my career where it was a big deal for me to get this role. And I didn't take it lightly. And I was an honor. And I felt very empowered to step into the roles of the great Gwen Verdon.

[55:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Incredible. Incredible. Thank you for all of your work, not just on stage, but everything else. It's really inspiring.

[55:51] Chryssie Whitehead: Yeah, thank you.

[55:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody out there, thank you for listening. Thank you, Bob, for requesting. And remember, who's got the pain when they do the mambo?

[56:02] Chryssie Whitehead: Who's got the pain when they go?

[56:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who decided that that was the sound? Did they workshop it? These are the things I'm curious about.