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[3:54] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, right. I mean, she's phenomenal. And I remember watching her and it just wasn't on my radar because I thought of it as a soprano role. Then I was introduced to the Marin Mazzie version, which is not, you know, all the keys were taken down. And my world imploded because I was like, oh, my God, this is actually a role that I would love to play someday if I'm lucky enough. And I can't remember what keys Michelle did it in because I know having now done concert versions of it, there are a million keys. A plethora, sure. Yeah. But then, so a few years after that, I got a call from amazing director Michael McKetty, who was directing at Reprise. And I had worked for Reprise and love Reprise and said, I think you'd be an amazing Kate.

And my first reaction was not ready, not ready, not ready. Because it's huge. It's, you know, it was always one of those roles that was like, down the road, down the road, down the road. Well, it is kind of one of those roles that requires a little bit of lived in experience, right? In the same way that like a 19 year old playing Cassie in Chorus Line, you're like, I don't know if I got this yet. Totally. And I am immature, so I felt that way anyway. But then when I thought about it, I was like, okay, I love these people. I completely trusted that whole company and I completely trusted Michael McKetty. And what was great about it is that I had no time to prepare, which is frightening for that show.

I was doing a production of Little Shop and I was doing Little Shop at Night and rehearsing Kiss Me Kate during the day. Oh my gosh, that's got to be like some kind of record, right? Like Guinness or something. And the most opposite role. Yeah, completely. So going into the show, I was obviously familiar with it, but had not spent any time on that. And it was daunting and frightening, but I had fantastic people around me and I had Tom Hewitt opposite me.

[6:02] Jeff Parsons: Oh, for crying out loud.

[6:04] Lesli Margherita: Can you ask for a better leading man?

[6:07] Jeff Parsons: You can't. And it was just a dream. And I loved it so much. And I'm sure we'll talk about it, just finding ways that was my Kate into it. It's a really funny role. And I had not clocked that before ever doing the show. It's a really funny role. It's a fantastic show that still works, which is crazy because it was written in 1948. Yeah, all those shows, Guys and Dolls and all that. But Kiss Me Kate, I know that the most recent revival changed some stuff up. I was not in agreement with that because I understand why, but I think it still works as is.

[6:45] Jeff Parsons: Oh, cool. I can't wait to hear it.

[6:47] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, the women are always in power in those shows. And I think when you come at it from that direction, it doesn't need to be changed.

[6:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Cool. Okay, I can't wait to talk about that. So let's talk a little bit about the history of this thing. The whole idea for Kiss Me Kate came about because of a stage manager, which I think is so hilarious. It's amazing. The original producer of Kiss Me Kate was the stage manager by the name of Arnold St. Subber. And he was a stage manager in 1935 during a production of The Taming of the Shrew that starred husband and wife actors, Alfred Lunt and Lynn Fontaine. Yeah, somebody may recognize those names together as the Lunt-Fontaine Theater in New York City. So these were two very famous actors who just happened to be married and would be on stage together all the time. And in this particular production of Taming of the Shrew, what was happening on stage was happening backstage.

They were just like arguing and fighting and it was total drama. And so this, you know, stage managers, bless their hearts, get to witness all of this, probably much more than they are being paid to. And it kind of planted the seed in his mind. What if we did a show within a show type musical that showed the goings on on stage and all the drama backstage? And so that's how this idea came about. And he approached Bella Spiewak. Is that how you say her last name? I mean, that's a good guess. I actually don't know.

[8:33] Lesli Margherita: Neither do I. Sorry, Bella.

[8:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But he approached her and she kind of balked at the idea, number one, because she hated Taming of the Shrew. And number two was in this mindset of Shakespeare doesn't make money anymore. But he eventually kind of wore her down and she realized she didn't want to do it herself. So she pulls in her husband, Samuel Spiewak, and so they work on it together. Funny enough, they were having marital problems at the time when they're writing the show. So I'm sure that's in the DNA of this thing. Yeah, absolutely. And then they had worked on this musical Leave It to Me. I love musical titles with exclamation points, with Cole Porter in the 1930s. So they tried to get him on. Now, this is where things get interesting.

Because if you remember a few years before Kiss Me, Kate, a little show called Oklahoma opens and changes everything in terms of integrated music. Now, Cole Porter was one of the few composers who did not love this. He was not really interested in going further into the integrated musical. He liked what he was doing. He had created Anything Goes and secured one of the biggest hits of that decade and proved himself to be a writer of fantastic songs with clever lyrics. And he felt like that was enough. And you look at a show like Anything Goes, which you've done, right?

[10:11] Lesli Margherita: Yes.

[10:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. Not Reno yet. Not Reno. I've done. I know. I've done Irma and I've done twice. Irma, whatever her name is. Sure, Bonnie, Irma, whatever she is. Yeah, but not Reno yet. Not Reno? I know. I know. Please call Lesli Margherita right now. That's a criminal. Anyway, so Anything Goes, you look at all of the different versions over the past, whatever it is now, almost 100 years, and you can kind of plop any Cole Porter song you want in there and it's going to work just fine. Throw in Friendship, throw in Take Me Back to Manhattan, and it's fine. And that's kind of how he preferred it. What Rodgers and Hammerstein did was, okay, we're creating songs that have to exist in this world, in this show. And so Cole Porter had to kind of be, you know, convinced to go in and do this sort of thing. And gratefully he did, ultimately. And this was the last show that he wrote, and I think probably the most sophisticated one of his career.

[11:12] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, absolutely.

[11:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So the show opens, I believe, either 1948 or 1949. It legendarily wins the first Tony Award for Best Musical. There had never been that award before.

[11:25] Lesli Margherita: Really?

[11:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Wow, I'm learning so much on this. There had never been a Best Musical?

[11:32] Lesli Margherita: No.

[11:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, I mean, the Tony Awards were weird back then. They would just kind of give trophies to people that they thought were good. They're like, Agnes de Mille, you did some great choreography in Burgundy, here you go.

[11:41] Lesli Margherita: Well, kind of the same. You know? Kind of still the same. But certainly musicals didn't deserve their own trophies.

[11:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow, wow. Amazing. Best plays, for sure. But the musicals had to work for it. And they finally got it in 1949 with Kiss Me Kate. Amazing. The show, which is one of the few from this period, keeps getting done. There have been several Broadway revivals. I saw the one with Marin Mazzie and Brian Stokes Mitchell. Did you see that one?

[12:15] Lesli Margherita: I saw it. I did not see them. I saw they did like a PBS.

[12:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh yeah, with Rachel York.

[12:23] Lesli Margherita: Yes, which I loved. Fantastic. So that was the one that I saw. Yeah, I loved that production. I think the first time I did it when I was Bianca, it was those tour sets and costumes. Those costumes.

[12:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, fun.

[12:34] Lesli Margherita: Oh, how fun. Last summer, I did Kiss Me Kate at an opera festival, which was really fun.

[12:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, cool.

[12:40] Lesli Margherita: Here's the thing. You think you've seen the show, and then you see the show with a legit opera chorus singing Cantiamo De Amore, and you're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea this existed.

[12:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's really cool.

[12:50] Lesli Margherita: Really cool. Yeah, super, super fun. And I will also say, what was really cool about that production was that there were plenty of people in the opera company that were like, musical theater.

[13:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[13:07] Lesli Margherita: Also on the season was Othello and Romeo and Juliet. And so it was a Shakespeare themed season with Kiss Me Kate stuck in there as something where people don't die. And so I think that there were young artists who were rolling their eyes because they would rather be singing French. And some of the hardest music to sing that I've ever sung in my life.

[13:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[13:29] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. So I'm sure they had, I hope they had a turnaround.

[13:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They had a turnaround. And I'll tell you when it happened, the downbeat of that overture with a full orchestra, because you know what orchestras don't have when you're doing opera? A brass section because you can't sing over it. You know what I mean? So all of a sudden the overture starts and it's like and you feel the entire space of the theater transform into something new and creative and fun. And like, what are you going to do? You have to give into it.

[14:04] Lesli Margherita: Yeah.

[14:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Have to. I just loved that so much. The transformative nature of a musical theater.

[14:10] Lesli Margherita: Yeah.

[14:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So that's kind of the backstory of it all. What I do want to talk to you before we go into the show, though, is, I mean, one of the great tropes that this show really brings out is the idea of difficult actors. Can we like have a discussion about what that's about?

[14:27] Lesli Margherita: Absolutely.

[14:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know?

[14:39] Lesli Margherita: Absolutely.

[14:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't think I'm a difficult person, but rehearsals are an ego minefield, and I'm sure mine has flared up many on occasion, and I will gladly fess up to it. But what is it for you? What is that tightrope walking for you like?

[15:00] Lesli Margherita: This is one of the things that I pride myself on, is being not difficult. From a very early age, my parents, who were not stage parents, instilled in me, this is an honor to get to do anything like this. Be kind, be nice. So for me, whenever I have a flare up, because it happens, creative-tempered people, whenever it happens, I am so apologetic to anyone if I've had a bad experience, because I really, really try not to, because we all know those people. And it's that diva trope, right? It's male and female, just diva. There is no word for it, for a man, of course, but okay. And what I love about KISS ME KATE is these people think they're so much grander than they are. You know, when they've come up together from dinner theater, basically, and now just because they had some success, and that is literally what happens with people, friends of mine that have become successful, like the good ones, nothing changes.

But we all know people that think they are unbelievable. And I'm like, you're just an actor. We aren't. You're trying to go to the bathroom in under five minutes with your pantyhose, just like everybody else. Just like everybody else. And you know, when I first met my husband, he's not a performer, not a theater person. And I would come home and complain about a rehearsal. And he was like, oh, difficult day at the mines today? Or like, you lost somebody on the table? Like, it was literally such a great way to be like, look at what you're doing. And I feel that way with actors. I see people on sets that are rude to the crew, or like, you are just standing there like a zoo animal. People look at you, saying other people's words that you didn't even make up.

So the difficult actor trope for me is one of the most fun things to play, because I try and make sure that I'm exactly the opposite. But I know so many of those people, male and female. And so I love it. I think it's... That to me, there's so much humor in that in Kiss Me Kate, because of just that alone. Because these people are ridiculous. No, 100%. And they're dressing up in tights for a living. There is this degree of, I don't know, there's just like a perspective that sometimes we lose. I was even thinking about this. And this may sound cynical. But I was listening to some actor talk about being kind and doing charity work and meditating. And on some level, I was like, yeah, that's easy for you to say. I'm like, I would probably be much better at listening to this message if it was coming from somebody who has to teach kindergartners all day.

[18:11] Lesli Margherita: 100%. Literally, all we do, and especially... And I can't go down this road. But you know, when you're in a run of a show, you work three hours a night. Fair enough. If you do a matinee, then that's six hours. And yes, it's hard. Yes, what we do is hard. Incredibly hard. But you gotta remember what we're doing at the base of it and what other people are doing in their life. And yes, we're bringing joy to people. And that's the most important thing. But at the end of the day, there is no excuse. You're not better than anybody. So there is no excuse to treat people with disrespect, because you think you're more talented than they are. Because guess what? There's always somebody coming up that can replace you. Can just drop kick you off the pedestal.

[19:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Literally, yeah. It then leads me to think that, you know, yes, acting is difficult. But I think maybe even more than the craft itself is, honestly, like the spiritual side of it, of keeping your sanity and keeping level headed in your perspective. You know, I don't, I'm not on X a lot anymore, Twitter, because it's kind of a dumpster fire. But I was, I was on the other day and David Krumholz, who's just like one of those actors that you've seen and you love. For me, he's Bernard from the Santa Claus.

[19:37] Lesli Margherita: Absolutely Bernard. Yeah, 100% always Bernard.

[19:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But he, he's in Oppenheimer this year. Anyway, yeah, he had, he did this long, he's been doing all of these long threads that are really interesting. And he was talking about fame being a really hazardous drug in the acting industry. And, and this is what he wrote. I thought it really kind of gets to the heart of maybe what's underneath all of this behavior. Hollywood is, and I guess you could say, you know, the entertainment industry in general, like any other multi-billion dollar generating industry, deeply bureaucratic and politically motivated. And people want valuable opportunities and alliances and trade what they can for them. The glaring problem, an actor's product is their self. So if selling self isn't enough, then an actor is faced with a choice, quit acting or change, adjust, transmogrify, which I had, I don't think I knew that word, David, contort into something other than self, fake it until you make it.

But from what I've witnessed and been party to this causes actors, deep paranoia and pain. I thought, well, dang, that kind of gets right to the heart of it, you know? And I see that in both of our lead characters here in Kiss Me, Kate, where they are at a point where it's like the career isn't working anymore. And so that's really confronting, not only from a financial place, but also if you are the product, then is it me? I don't want to believe it's me. Am I the problem? You know? And also, you know, their careers are failing, their relationship has failed. They've been successful in no area of their life.

[21:20] Lesli Margherita: Right. That's true. Batting zero here.

[21:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or batting zero. Yeah, batting zero. Wow. That's a great. Thanks. Thanks, Bernard.

[21:29] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. Thanks, Bernard. Also, Adam's Family Values. Got to shout out that perfect film.

[21:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. No, it's great. Because who are you if you're not what you've made yourself out to be?

[21:41] Lesli Margherita: Exactly. Exactly. So I guess then that takes us into the gender politics of it all, which has always been at the forefront of The Taming of the Shrew.

[21:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep. And that becomes like its own conversation, because not only are we sidestepping the egos of actors, then also underneath it all is this misogynistic storytelling that women are meant to be tamed and controlled. What's your take on the original Taming of the Shrew? Do you feel like that is the idea of what Shakespeare's getting at?

[22:12] Lesli Margherita: No, I think he was getting at the joke of that. I think he was saying, yes, it's completely misogynistic. But then the women that he wrote are completely in control. It's why people are like, oh, we had to take out the spanking. But you don't understand the comeback. If some man does that to you, these women, especially Kate, fight back. So to me, it was, yes, misogynistic. But guess what? It's the F around and find out. It's literally what that is to me. So I always found it a commentary on misogyny, not that the play itself was misogynistic. I don't know. That's just how I looked at it. And maybe that's my way of nowadays being like, oh, you know, dealing with that. With centuries of misogyny.

[23:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. But historically, these great female characters aren't victims of that. They see it and then they turn it around. I always felt those characters were very powerful, the women. And I find that all of his female characters, whether you believe he wrote his plays or not, maybe it was a woman. You know, we don't know.

[23:41] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, good point. And going into the musical always felt that it was a feminist piece.

[23:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. No, look, I love this angle and I want to explore it more. So when the show opens, and we'll be talking from the 99 revival script because I feel like that's the one that would get produced if our listeners were going to go out and see it today, begins with another open in another show. One of the classic, I mean, right up there with no business like show business. I could spend this entire episode talking about how clever the lyrics are. But has the word ulcer ever been sung more beautifully than in another open in another show? It's a great opening. We're kind of backstage at a theater meeting all of the actors who are getting ready for opening. It is opening, right? Or is it like first audience?

Ah, now I'm trying to remember. Shoot. I think we are opening. I think we're I think we're I think it's like, yeah, it's an opening it. I don't think it's like first audience. No previews then. Sure. We're opening cold. Backstage, we have two characters who have always and I just want to put this out there who have always been cast as black actors, actors of color. Hattie and Paul. Hattie is the lead female's kind of dresser and Paul is the lead male's dresser. And I think that's pretty cool because we just got it wasn't that long ago that we just had Finian's Rainbow, which included the very first integrated chorus. And now we have like supporting characters who from the get like this wasn't something that we changed in the 1960s to make the show more colorful. This is how it always was. And I love those characters. They're so funny.

[25:41] Lesli Margherita: They are. They're fantastic characters. We also have so that's kind of like the backstage crew. Then we'll kind of focus on the main four or quad, if you will, in in the show itself. You've got Lily, who's playing Kate Catherine, Fred, who's playing Petruchio. And let's talk a little bit about these. So Lily, Lily had some success in theater, especially when she was married to Fred. And then she went and tried to do movies.

[26:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Correct. Right. Hollywood. Yeah. And how that didn't go so great.

[26:16] Lesli Margherita: Not so great. Not so great. Not only because she wasn't getting work, but because of the way she was doing the work.

[26:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Correct. Diva. People didn't want to work with her. And I felt like this was kind of last chance.

[26:27] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. Last chance to stop for her to make something work. And now that I'm thinking about it, maybe it's not opening. Maybe it's their rehearsing. I think I should know this because I've done it, but because they're doing like last last minute rehearsals. Yeah. Knowing that there's going to be an audience. So maybe it is more of a preview performance than an opening. I don't know.

[26:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I like to think that each of these main characters have a fatal flaw in kind of a Shakespearean way. Maybe that's not Shakespearean. Maybe that's full on Greek. Their trait, that one trait, that's kind of their downfall. And for Lily, it's her temper. Like she just has some real anger issues.

[27:02] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. And it comes out in her work and in her, but also her private relationships. That is the fuel to Fred's flame, whose great, I think, character flaw is his ego. Fred likes to go around thinking that he is Laurence Olivier, speaking of your awards, and yet he's not. And she likes to remind him of that. You know, he says, you should have seen my production of such and such. And she's like, how could I? It ran for four performances.

[27:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. So these two, I don't know, are they more oil and water or are they like oil and vinegar, which is a delicious, you know, action for Focaccia. I always saw them as Liz Taylor, Richard Burton.

[28:03] Lesli Margherita: Hello. Did they do that, Shru? Is that the film?

[28:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They did. And she's so good in it. I love her so much. With her crazy voice. But you know, those two characters, it's like you found your soulmate and then have found every reason not to be with them because you're getting in your own way. They both got in their own way. And the easiest thing to do is to deflect and be difficult rather than actually face their own issues. Which is what most people with giant egos, they'd rather become this horrible creature than face their own demons.

[28:38] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. Which is what I think they both do. 100%. We'll talk a little bit more about their backstory. It's both like charming and frustrating. The other two, kind of the secondary couple, is Bill Cahoon, who's playing Lucentio, and Lois Lane, who is playing Bianca. Now, these two have their little isms as well. Bianca is a notorious flirt. Is that, should I say flirt? Because it sounds like she's also pretty willing to get down.

[29:05] Lesli Margherita: I think she's promiscuous. But again, owning, she has agency. She's owning it. She's getting what she wants out of it. And using it as a tool to get what she wants, right?

[29:23] Lesli Margherita: And that goes to what you were saying about it being a commentary, because I think Lois Lane is this great character to say, okay, if I am simply reduced to how I look, then get ready. Get ready. I'm about to rule the world. You know, 100%. Yes. And that's powerful. That's power in its own way. Bill Calhoun, on his end, his great flaw is his gambling. He's addicted to the old dice, and he's not good about it because he's also, you know, just kind of a dumb cabaret performer. And Lois has, you know, basically flirted her way into this relationship with Fred in order to secure both roles for her and Bill, her beau. Bill, however, is getting ready to screw all of this up because in the middle of the rehearsal, he decides to go and play the dice and loses a lot of money.

And since he doesn't have any money to lose, he signs someone else's name. The name, Frederick C. Graham. So he has forged the name of the producer, like a dummy, has forged the name of the producer to ensure that he doesn't have to pay his gambling debt. When Lois finds this out, she is furious and sings the incredible song, Why Can't You Behave? There's nothing more exciting than why can't you? I love hearing just that growl out. Yeah. Fantastic. So what's your take on these two?

[31:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love them as well, for completely different reasons. You know, I think it's like a golden retriever with him. It really is just like, you know, I always liked that him signing the name of the producer was almost like, almost he was proud of it. Like, yeah. No, like it wasn't. It was a great idea, right? Like it was. Like, yeah. Which I love when everyone's like, you dumbass. And I just feel like, because he is so lovable. It's like a golden retriever, like not really knowing he's done something wrong. And her, again, it's that you know who you're supposed to be with, but she is using all of the wrong tools to stay with him, sleeping with other people for us, for them. She's like, why are you mad? This is for us. I'm doing this for us. It's like, what's that movie with Demi Moore and she like sleeps with a millionaire.

[32:03] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, Indecent Proposal.

[32:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, Indecent Proposal. It's literally that. And it's that relationship, which I find like, so wrong, but so endearing. Because they're trying to climb out of, well, I mean, he seems to be fine where he was, right? They were just playing nightclubs, doing their thing. But she, once again, being someone who's, you know, aggressive and wanting to rule her kingdom.

[32:29] Lesli Margherita: Ambitious, yeah.

[32:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, ambitious, you know, is trying to jump into theater. She just doesn't want to be this cabaret, you know, club singer. She wants to be a real actress. Of course, along with her street smarts is a certain degree of cluelessness, which in and of itself is delightful and charming. It's delightful. We'll get to it. But Always True to You and My Fashion is like, one of the greatest comic pieces to-

[32:54] Lesli Margherita: Showstopper.

[32:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's unbelievable, those lyrics and everything. Now let's get into more of the backstory of Fred and Lily, who it seems they met doing kind of operetta. If we wanted to think of it nowadays, they graduated with their BFAs. They're doing, I don't know, a production of Adam's Family.

[33:15] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, it was like in a barn, right? It was like dinner theater, kind of.

[33:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and whenever their conversation, which is usually like 50% fighting, like 70% fighting, 30% loving, whenever they get to these moments of nostalgia, of reminiscence, that's where you see the softness, right? You see how much they really do care for each other, because there is all of that history. There's just that unspoken history that they know each other better than any other person. And they know what it was like to be in this crazy show where, and I love the line where she's like, I can't remember if the costumes were Dutch or if the paychecks were Dutch. Maybe it doesn't even matter. It was that kind of a show. So they have all of this that's bonding them, and yet they're just constantly triggers for the other person.

There's probably no greater trigger for Fred than Lily's current beau, which just so happens to be a high-level officer in the United States Army. He's another great character. He's going to be like a vice president candidate by the end of the show. Like he has that much notoriety. And she loves it. She loves carrying him around in her purse and thinking like she's going to-

[34:38] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, that's the way out for her. She's going to be either first lady of something. So that's-

[34:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Even if this acting thing doesn't work out, I can be my own person. What's interesting though is that as the show goes on, she realizes that this person that she has chosen is actually maybe the only true misogynist in the show.

[34:57] Lesli Margherita: Totally, yeah.

[34:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And wants to control her. So we get these fireworks, but we also get the nostalgia where they sing Wunderbar, which is a song from one of the old shows that they did together. She sings So in Love, which is just maybe one of the most hauntingly beautiful songs ever. I think there is still... Those people that you don't stop loving, I think that that love was never gone for them. So I think it's still there. And at least when I've done it or seen it, she's alone singing that. So it's something that she'd never say to anyone. It's also really horribly timed because as these feelings are coming back, she thinks to Paul receives a bouquet of flowers and the bouquet of flowers is her wedding bouquet from Fred, right?

The exact arrangement of flowers that she had at her wedding. And she thinks, oh my gosh, this is an apology. This is a window back into love and life and art and creativity. And unfortunately, what she doesn't know is that bouquet was meant for Lois. Because Fred, being a total dumbass, picked her wedding bouquet to send to the other girl in the show. But to me, it's such a man thing. He didn't remember it's a wedding bouquet. He's like, this is the thing I order all the time. This is my specialty. He's like, for some reason, I'm remembering romance really heavily with this particular arrangement. And the ladies love this bouquet. So I imagine that is what he sends to every single woman. And it just happened to be what she had on her wedding day.

And then he stuck with it. My absolute favorite moment in the entire show is when she finds out. Oh my gosh. So why she hasn't found out yet is they're about to go on stage and they came with a card, right? And he says, no, don't read it. Don't read it. I'll just tell you what it said. And she goes, oh, okay, tell me. And he said, I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. And she's, oh, that's fantastic. Well, if that's the case, then I am going to put this little note in my Cleveland's and it's going to be here close to my heart all throughout the show. And he's like, oh gosh, this isn't going to end well. On top of all of this, because we got to throw in that like 1930s, 40s screwball comedy, are these two gangsters who show up to the theater looking for the debt that good old Billy Calhoun signed to Fred's name.

So they come into Fred's dressing room saying, all right, pay up, buddy. We've been told by our boss that you came in. You know, they didn't see it. They weren't there. We've been told by our boss that you came in, threw some dice, had a bad run and we need your money. And he's like, I don't remember signing this. And they're like, yeah, that's what they all say. It's this perfect, like, I don't know. I just love this type of comedy where everyone's acting from a place of honesty, but because of the circumstances, it's all wrong.

[38:18] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, it's fantastic. These gangster guys, how would we describe them? They're like, lovable.

[38:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, for sure. Who somehow are both dangerous and violent and completely star struck that they're backstage at a Shakespearean piece because they love it more than any.

[38:41] Lesli Margherita: Absolutely terrific. It's just great writing.

[38:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is, yeah.

[38:44] Lesli Margherita: So the show starts, they open in Venice, right? They next play Verona. Can I just say that remembering these lyrics, the bane of my existence. I don't think I got it right once.

[38:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't think I did either. I don't think I've ever gotten it right.

[38:59] Lesli Margherita: You just keep moving your mouth.

[39:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because you go, wait, next play, Simona. Simona. Yeah.

[39:07] Lesli Margherita: Oh, gosh.

[39:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I just remember our conductor, like, mouthing.

[39:14] Lesli Margherita: God bless our music directors. They're just incredible.

[39:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Look, this whole show is filled with incredible music. And the music within the show, within Shrew, is this cool, like, really interesting combination of, would it be medieval? I don't even know.

[39:35] Lesli Margherita: I mean, you know, but it's got, like, lute written in it.

[39:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. But then it's also jazzy.

[39:42] Lesli Margherita: Yes.

[39:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's this incredible hybrid of 1940s jazz meets Shakespearean lute. Like, it's got crazy jazz stuff. And then.

[39:54] Lesli Margherita: Lute.

[39:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's crazy. It's nuts. Lois Lane is playing Bianca, who is the fair daughter of Senor Baptista. She wants to marry. She's ready. She's ripe. But he has kind of made this decree that she cannot get married before the eldest daughter, whose name is Kate.

[40:17] Lesli Margherita: Now, let's talk a little empathically about Kate, because she's supposed to be the meanest, cruelest woman in the land. But it also seems like she's always been second place, even though she's the eldest. Bianca is for sure the favorite daughter. And she seems pretty unconventional in terms of her life goals. Like, she doesn't want to settle down with a man. And yet that's all she's supposed to do.

[40:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep. And is kind of condemned, is condemned for it. And I think that character has never even considered finding someone on her level.

[40:51] Lesli Margherita: That that's not even possible.

[40:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's not even possible. Yeah.

[40:59] Lesli Margherita: That's a great point. I love that.

[41:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's no one's good enough. No one's good enough for her.

[41:05] Lesli Margherita: Right.

[41:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And if she's the only one that is going to hold on to that, then that's what's going to happen. She's not going to get married. And I think, you know, her sister knows that. So it is impossible. And, you know, it's written that it's she's such a beach. I always, always thought, sure, but she's that way because nobody's good enough.

[41:25] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, she's not going to...

[41:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why try?

[41:27] Lesli Margherita: Yeah.

[41:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Not going to settle.

[41:27] Lesli Margherita: Not going to settle. Yeah.

[41:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's not like her dad hasn't tried to probably get all of these suitors to come, but they are just endlessly disappointing.

[41:38] Lesli Margherita: Fair Bianca, meanwhile, has three suitors who she'd love to get with. In fact, she'd probably like to get with any Tom, Dick or Harry, any Tom, Harry or Dick, which I think is the song that will always be stuck in my brain the most from the show. If you see me walking down the street, there's a good chance I might be going, a dick, a dick, dick, dick, dick.

[42:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's great. It's so great.

[42:04] Lesli Margherita: Do you know the film version?

[42:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I do. And I love her so much.

[42:10] Lesli Margherita: Yeah.

[42:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And that, and that, like, with Fosse.

[42:15] Lesli Margherita: With Bob freaking Fosse.

[42:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fosse is one of the dance...

[42:19] Lesli Margherita: It's iconic.

[42:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For those who don't know, the film version is very different than the stage version.

[42:23] Lesli Margherita: Yeah.

[42:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just the entire construction of it and sound placement, totally different. However, some of the best sequences are for Ann-Margaret, who's playing Lois Lane and her suitors. One of which just happens... What did I say? Ann-Margaret.

[42:38] Lesli Margherita: Ann-Margaret.

[42:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which would also be great casting.

[42:40] Lesli Margherita: Would be phenomenal. It's phenomenal casting.

[42:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Ann Miller, you know, you're absolutely right.

[42:47] Lesli Margherita: The fact that we didn't get an Ann-Margaret, Bianca, oh!

[42:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why didn't we get an Ann-Margaret Kiss Me, like, put her in anything? Can you imagine her as Lily? Like, God bless the Petruchio that would be on the other side of those steely blue eyes.

[43:03] Lesli Margherita: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But yes, the film was with Ann Miller.

[43:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Ann Miller with her, like, crazy, crazy long brown wig. It was just absolutely wonderful. And Bob Fosse is one of the three suitors. And later on, when they do this whole From This Moment On ballet thing, he actually choreographed that section. And it was one of the big reasons why he got The Pajama Game. Maybe the great reason. And Carol Haney, who was also in Pajama Game, was his duet partner for that. Anyway, really fun little Broadway stuff lives in that film.

[43:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, the sisters are definitely placed in counterpoint. You've got Bianca with all of her suitors. And then you've got Kate singing I Hate Men. Thoughts on this song?

[43:52] Lesli Margherita: Greatest song. Such a comic tour de force. Very difficult to sing.

[44:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's rangy, right?

[44:04] Lesli Margherita: The whole show is, you have to use every part of your voice. The only other role I've even compared it to is Aldonza in Man of La Mancha, because you have to use your growling alto, but then you have to have these soprano notes for the end of Act One. And depending on where you set things, I like, at least the version that I do, I like to have "So in Love" be a little more soprano-y, and then "I Hate Men" is growling and, you know, she gives birth during at least my version she does. And so it just it's really hard to sing and really hard to make funny. Because it's funny already. So you don't want to do too much. And that's, that's the trap is not overselling it. I just think it's one of the greatest musical theater songs of all time.

Well, and look, when you have lyrics like these, you really kind of, it's doing a lot of the work for you, right? If you can find the right place for your voice, then just like, let these words come out. Because listen to this. If thou should wed a businessman, because she's talking to like all her sisters and stuff. If thou should wed a businessman, be wary, oh, be wary. He'll tell you he's detained in town on business necessary. His business is the business which he gives his secretary. Oh, I hate men. I mean, come on. Come on. Yeah, I feel like that is truly the merging of Kate and of Lily. Because they both are at the exact same point. She hates men because you know, Lily hates men, Kate hates men.

And it's truly like the marriage of those two characters, those two people. This is actually just Lily playing Kate. And they are the same. They are the same person. That's where I think that they meld the best. I just, I love this. Love, love, love.

[46:04] Lesli Margherita: Enter Petruchio, who actually knows Lucentio. And they're, you know, oh, what are you doing in Varna? Oh, I'm a student. What are you? What are you doing here? Well, I have come to wife it wealthily in Padua. I'm here to marry a rich woman because I got nothing else to do. Like, he's not a great guy, right? He's literally just looking for his own paycheck. He does so, I mean, just with a searing song of misogyny. I've come to wife it wealthily. Women are barely women. They're just these, you know, things to serve him. So then when he hears about this rich man's daughter, who can't find a suitor, he's like, ding, ding, ding, ding, this is my ticket. This is how I'm going to get what I want. Little does he know, you know, waiting for him behind that door is that big old can of whip ass.

[47:05] Lesli Margherita: So now what's incredible is that as all of this is happening, Lily, playing Kate, decides to read the note that she's been holding dear to her heart. And when she sees in the midst of these beautiful Shakespearean sonnets that the bouquet, her wedding bouquet was in fact destined for Lois. How does that go down, Leslie? I mean, it's that I said it before. It's my favorite moment to play in the show. It is written so perfectly. It's comic genius. And you know, she's doing it from a place of like, look, I'm gonna read your note. I love you. And then she reads it and immediately it's I'm gonna freaking kill this person. I will, I will murder you. In front of an audience. I will murder you. And I love it because it's from that moment, all bets are off.

Like, I don't care who is watching this. Yeah, I'm going. No, now we get to see Lily's true anger, like everything that we've heard about that is somewhat unwieldy. It's going to now play out in front of an audience. So I love this scene, which like, God bless y'all for memorizing all of the Shakespeare, because the script is just full of not only Cole Porter lyrics, but then just the just endless verses and a viambic pentameter for crying out loud. So through this scene, Lily, aka Kate, is just throwing things and smashing things and fighting him. And I think that in terms of playing it for a modern day audience, she has to go far enough without him like really striking back, if you will, in order to get him to the place where then he decides to spank her.

[49:03] Lesli Margherita: Absolutely. Well, yeah, I, again, think if it comes from, she is in charge. And the only thing he has is to physically restrain her. And you know what I mean? Like, it's the last ditch effort. This is the last ditch effort, yeah. And to put her over his knee. And, you know, it's funny. It's so funny. And it's, you know, nowadays, it's, is this abuse? Is it, you know, you have to come at it from a different way, where this is comedy that is part of the play, also, because he is trying to salvage this performance. So that is part of the play. And historically, right? It's part of the Shakespearean play. So the fact that it just so happens to be mirroring perfectly what's happening backstage, is just so fun to me. And like, if we can just kind of take a deep breath and take all of that in and the context behind it, I think it's really entertaining. And I hope that doesn't make me sound anxious.

[50:09] Lesli Margherita: No, no, no. Again, please, I'm a woman. And I'm saying I miss this moment, if it's not done. And it's not done a lot anymore. Because it, the rage for her. Rage, that's a really great word. You know that it's coming. It's flames on the side of my face. You know, he's gonna get it. And so I feel like, oh, okay, go ahead and spank me, which is also such a stupid and childish way. And might I say, kinky sometimes? Yes. Yes. So there are ways around all of this. And it's written in the play. And if, for me, if I'm playing Lily, the fact that this has to happen in the play, but I know that this is coming from Fred, not Petruchio, is a whole different way to play it. And, and as a woman, oh, you know, it's, it's coming. Go ahead and spank. You can do that now, because just wait.

[51:17] Lesli Margherita: So then what comes after is just this. I mean, if you thought that was great, then to see them in the dressing room, and she's like, I can't even sit down. I'm black and blue. And he's like, I can't say get it because he's also the director of this show, by the way, that is absolutely falling apart. And then there's also these, you know, gangsters who want him to pay money that he has no idea what that's about. So it's just, it's full on noises off chaos backstage.

[52:18] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. And by the way, I always thought her, oh, yeah, right. I always thought her being like, I can't sit down. It's overdramatic. Oh, absolutely. Really? You already bruised after those, like... Like it didn't hit you. Like it didn't, yeah. You're wearing that huge, huge ball gown of a Shakespearean dress. And like, you know, not even sitting on the chair, like, oh God, it hurts so much. It is ridiculous. Ridiculous.

[52:37] Lesli Margherita: I love it so much. Just these two, like, I'm not a huge fan of two-hander plays or musicals. Like, you know, we've seen so many of them, it's hard to be surprised. But boy, oh, boy, do I love a two-hander within a big show, where these are just these extended scenes between two characters going at it. Oh, so great.

[52:54] Lesli Margherita: That's a great thing. What she also does is she calls her beau and says, you know, send the National Guard to arrest this man. And so now the, what's his bucket? Hold on. I always forget. Harrison Howell. Howell? Yeah. Whatever. Is he Colonel or something? I don't know. Colonel. Yeah. KFC. I don't know. He's coming. So Fred is like, now, you know, the only way that I can pay, oh, Fred is smart when he needs to be. He says, he tells the gangsters, the only way I'm going to be able to pay this debt that you say that I owe is if this show runs and is a success. However, I got a leading lady over there who's threatening to leave. So I need your help. You got to babysit and make sure she doesn't leave in order for you to get your money. And they're like, perfect. We love theater. And also we're big fans of Lily Vanessi, because they were probably at that barn that they did that show in 20 years ago.

[53:40] Lesli Margherita: So now for this big, this big wedding scene in the middle of Shrew, you know, out comes Petruchio with the gangsters and Lily, like, physically restrained by ropes, like looking like Joan of Arc and just pissed. And everyone's she's pissed. And this is the moment where you get to like sing coloratura on top of it all.

[54:06] Lesli Margherita: Yes. Yes. Which is, it's the most unhinged moment of that show. She's singing coloratura. And at least the versions that I have done, which I break on stage very easily. And this every night would make me go is there for some reason, she sings about a bird, or at least, I don't know, I was singing and a bird came and at the end of it, one of the gangsters, it's right at the end of Act One, like, takes a gun out of his holster and shoots a bird that then flops on the stage.

[54:42] Lesli Margherita: Isn't it because she's going, and then you have some, like, the bird is answering. The bird answers. And it's a fake bird, like, the gangster doesn't know that, but the gangster doesn't know that, you know, it's like this bird is disrupting the show.

[54:59] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, it's on wires. Like, doink, doink, doink. Oh, my gosh. And then the entire chorus thing is kiss me, kiss me, kiss me. Anyway, so like, this is not going well, to say the least. Act Two starts with "Too Darn Hot," another great Cole Porter song that is just basically everybody trying to do with the show.

[55:21] Lesli Margherita: No, no, it's just, it's just the ensembles like we need to break. So how about we dance for seven minutes? Yeah, yeah. It's a great way to open up Act Two. It's, I mean, that song is just so fantastic. Now, structurally, this is where I think Kiss Me, Kate gets interesting and very Cole Porter-ish. And that's why, and this is why I mentioned him, you know, really pushing back against the whole Rodgers and Hammerstein tradition of the integrated musical because Act Two really almost plays like vaudeville.

[55:49] Lesli Margherita: It's just number after number after number after number after showstopper. And all of that story and character work is all in the first act. And then the second act, you just kind of let it roll over you.

[56:01] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. And you've got two songs that have multiple endings in the same act. True. The Brush After Shakespeare and Always True To You, My Favourite. Always True To You. There's like, like a reprise or the encore. Like three endings. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 100%. And to have two of those, I believe they're both in the same act.

[56:19] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, no, you're exactly right. So we've got, we've got Fred singing, "Where's the Life That Late I Led?" Yes, which is another- Which is just a huge showstopper that is both, you know, Petruchio being like, how did I get into this crazy mess of trying to tame Kate? Meanwhile, Fred's also thinking the exact same thing about bringing Lily into this production. You've got "Always True To You In My Fashion," which is Bill and Lois, you know, going through their problems of, Lois, you're very promiscuous. And she's like, no, but I'm true to you, but it's in my way. In my way. Yeah, yeah.

[57:57] Lesli Margherita: And like you said, this number comes to an ending and everybody goes wild. And then Lois then has a whole other verse with a key change. And then the audience just like leaps to their feet because they had no idea that was coming. It also contains my very favourite lyric in the show, which is, Mr. Gable, I mean, Clark, wants me on his boat to park. If a gable boat means a sable coat anchors away. But I'm always true to you in my fashion. I'm always true to you in my way. Are you kidding me? Come on. Yeah.

[58:35] Lesli Margherita: Did Cole Porter just like, I don't know, make out with himself in a mirror when he came up with that lyric? It's also one of the hardest ones to remember. And I remember when I played that role just before. I remember sitting on a staircase every night going over it before I had to sing it. Before you got on stage. Yeah, yeah. It's just so many lyrics and you don't want to mess them up. And it's just you. It's just me. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Such a great song. Never Has the Hope and More Empowered in musical theatre. Right? Right? So great. And makes perfect sense. Yeah. Nothing has changed, by the way. Yeah, yeah. More props to you. If you just want a sable coat, great. You know, do what you gotta do.

Do what you gotta do. And it's not like Bill is underappreciated in this relationship. So I, you know, he's still getting his. Again, I do this for you. Yeah. This is all, they mean nothing. One of the guys that she, we find out she was with, was the general. Oh, he was a general, not a colonel. Uh-huh. Oh, general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. General Howell.

[58:45] Lesli Margherita: It turns out that during the World War, they hooked up or something like that. And that's kind of the reason that she begins to sing the song as Bill oversees her flirting with him and because he could mean some jewelry for her later down the line. But it also reveals General Howell to be kind of a scumbag because while he is very much telling Lily, look, we're going into politics. You need to wear a very humble coat. You can't wear furs. You got to be a conservative Republican's wife. And she's like, excuse me, this is what I signed up for. While he's doing all of that, he's also, you know, looking for tail on the side. So yeah, we really see the General Howell. Aren't they always? The ones who say I've got upstanding morals.

Gotta look out for those all about the morals and they're trying to legislate it. Yep. Boy, oh boy, is that a red flag out there. So that's another showstopper. Then we wrap up the whole misunderstanding with the gambling debt because the gangsters find out that their boss has been murdered. And so therefore the debt is canceled because they're like, oh, well, who are you going to pay it to? No worries. You're good, Fred. Right. So I take that back. Even though we did do Othello, Romeo and Juliet and Kiss Me Kate. Kiss Me Kate does have somebody did die. Yeah. Yeah. It's just on the other side. But the gangsters are but then the gangsters are bummed because then they have no reason to hang out.

[59:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that's true. They found a home. They found a home. The good news is that on their way out, they get kind of lost and find themselves on stage. And in a moment, which always makes me laugh, always makes me laugh because I'm like, what was supposed to be on stage? There's just silence. Especially if you've been backstage. All of the signs that say exit, fellas. It's not that hard to find. But no, they're going to go towards the sound of the orchestra. And they find themselves center stage. And they're like, oh, what do we do? Hit it. The key of B flat, you know, like they take their moment and begin to sing. I'm sure the reason why Cole Porter agreed to do this show. Brush up your Shakespeare. I don't even know what lyrics to read from this song. No, they're all I mean, and I think has three endings.

[1:01:23] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, there are two encores for this one. Two encore. Yeah. And no one's ever mad about it. No one's ever like, get on with the story. No, no, it's hysterical. It's just all the clever play. Sit down with brush up your Shakespeare and just see how many great puns Cole Porter has buried in that song. It's absolutely great. Yeah. So that's another showstopper. Am I missing others? My gosh, you think you're thinking, oh, that's the 11 o'clock number. And then you're like, nope, that's the 11 o'clock number. No, because I feel like Kate, there isn't for her in the second act.

[1:02:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, Lily really doesn't get to sing until.

[1:02:08] Lesli Margherita: No, I am ashamed that women are so simple, right? Which is great. But yeah, that's kind of it. Yeah. Well, she has this huge, you know, it's actually maybe more of a quiet private moment of her thinking, am I going to be this wife? The general wants me to be or am I an artist? You know, anger and fury aside, she is a creative person. So she threatens to leave the show. Fred accepts that that's probably what's going to happen. And so now we're in the finale of the shrew of the show within the show. They're all on stage waiting for Lily to make her entrance. And, you know, Fred isn't he has no idea what to do. He's almost resigned in that scene being like, you know, you guys, I'm sorry, I just, this is all going to fall apart. And in the very last moment, we hear her. She comes in.

[1:03:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, she comes in. And I love, I'm ashamed that women are so simple. Tell me about it, because I don't want to talk about it. I love that you're saying these words and mean none of it. You're it's her coming to terms with I am difficult, and I'm owning it. And you love that deep down. You love that about me. But she's saying I'm ashamed that women are so simple. It's for me, it's tongue in cheek. It is what is written and none of that is coming through. None of that is on her face. None of that is what she's saying. It's, again, like spoofing. It's what you think you want a woman to say what what what a man thinks he wants, you know, especially in that time. And she's anything but. And that's what that is what that song's about. For me, it's almost a celebration of difficult women.

[1:04:52] Lesli Margherita: Well, it and I love the added texture that that brings to it for Kate, because no matter how you look at it, it is a white flag of some kind. It is a it is a peace offering to say, you know what? I know that I'm difficult. Yeah. But like you said, don't we kind of prefer it that way? Yeah. And it's it's that if you love someone, you have to love all of them, the good and the bad. And I think somebody recognizing their flaws is such a huge, so much growth that I don't think either one of them really like we're saying at the beginning that they're not looking at themselves or dealing with their shortcomings. And through this craziness experience, yeah, have realized that, yes, these are their flaws, but it's also what makes them them and what makes them great together.

[1:05:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. You know, I imagine blaming the other person quite. Yeah. And I imagine that this this is not the last fight that they're going to be having for sure. Part of their life, you know, it's and so I really like that ending and looking at it on paper now is like, but it's not it's not it's just it's just I think to a certain degree, we all have that. I I'm reminded of this bit that Amy Schumer does. She did recently where she's like, after being married through the pandemic, I've realized that marriage is like, find someone who can stand you. And she's like, it's like, is that too romantic, everybody? But like that, that is kind of it, right? Yeah, that we all have our stuff. We have our anger or we have our ego or we have a gambling addiction or we're promiscuous. But guess what? These four people have found somebody who can stand that.

[1:06:47] Lesli Margherita: Who can deal with that. And maybe they would find somebody who had a different problem that they were working with that they couldn't stand. But these four characters are matches. And her with the general, somebody who wanted to change everything about her. I mean, I think I kind of think that's one of the only reasons that my character is there. And I've done both versions where they include his song and don't include his song.

[1:07:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, which is a fantastic song.

[1:07:09] Lesli Margherita: But it is that Cole Porter thing of like, this doesn't really make sense here. Do we need to hear him sing?

[1:07:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's done.

[1:07:15] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. And it's done as like a, like political march. Yeah. And so it's odd and doesn't need to be there. But you need that character to show that the only person that is in love with Lily right now is somebody who wants to change every single thing about her.

[1:07:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, and you know what, that's such a good point, because I've always felt that from this moment on is more important to Fred than Lily. I think it's really important for him to actually see what a misogynist looks like, because he's playing one on stage.

[1:07:57] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, so good. Yeah, totally.

[1:07:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: In order to realize, oh, no, she can't be with someone like that. And me and I guess I am the right type of person to be with her, you know?

[1:08:18] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. And love, you know, he loves her. And same with her, like, they love what is difficult about each other.

[1:08:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[1:08:24] Lesli Margherita: And for somebody to take that away and make them a shell of a person is you don't want to see that happen to anyone, whether you end up with them or not, you're still gonna say like, please don't be with this person.

[1:08:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:31] Lesli Margherita: I mean, I think, you know, that character is love him or hate him, but it's definitely necessary. It's also why I think that this show is ultimately really beautiful and kind of emotional to see like four very imperfect people find their puzzle piece, you know, the person that that they click with. And it's beautiful and romantic and silly and delightful, I guess, in the way that Shakespeare is, you know?

[1:08:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And I find these older shows more progressive than some things that are being written now. I find them like, like you're saying, so romantic, but also just, you know, in an age where we're revisiting older material and changing everything because it doesn't quite fit into what we're now are, you know, and rightfully, we should be looking at

[1:09:20] Lesli Margherita: Absolutely.

[1:09:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: things that need to be updated.

[1:09:22] Lesli Margherita: Take a look inside, just like these characters had.

[1:09:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, absolutely. But if you really, really delve into these, there's not a lot that needs to be changed. It's mainly just perspective. And the great revivals are doing that, are changing a perspective, but not really like changing the core of something. But Kiss Me, Kate is written so well. It's just one of those perfect shows. And now I really want to do it again.

[1:09:48] Lesli Margherita: Well, look, everybody out there, do anything goes first, okay? I don't know how you're going to do, actually, maybe you shouldn't do anything. Because there are a few plot points that I don't know how you do those in 2024. So maybe, so maybe we shouldn't.

[1:10:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Have you done an episode of anything goes?

[1:10:10] Lesli Margherita: Yes. And I did it with Broadway, Barbara, do you know Broadway, Barbara?

[1:10:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:10:17] Lesli Margherita: And we talked very little about the show. She just gave us really great insights into show business in general.

[1:10:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We love Barbara.

[1:10:26] Lesli Margherita: Oh, Broadway, Barbara is the best.

[1:10:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, icon.

[1:10:30] Lesli Margherita: No, no, legend status.

[1:10:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Legend, legend.

[1:10:34] Lesli Margherita: So yeah, maybe we just need another Kiss Me, Kate with Leslie Margarita is what I'm getting to. It's such a great, such a great show.

[1:10:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Lesli, thank you so much for doing this with me. What an absolute joy to connect with you. As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, please email me at a musical podcast at gmail.com. Follow us on social media. We are on Instagram and TikTok and X, which I mentioned earlier. What else? We got our Patreon exclamation point, which just continues to be so much fun. And for only $1 a month, you can receive bonus content and support the show. We also have our Tee Public store full of great designs. All of the profits we receive from those purchases go to Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS. Oh my gosh, we have Spotify playlists. You guys, there's like a lot going on, and I'm really grateful for all of the ways that it allows me to connect with y'all. So thank you for listening. Thank you for participating. Share this with your friends. Give us a nice review. Hey, Leslie, how do we follow you? Because you're a great follow, might I say.

[1:11:41] Lesli Margherita: Oh my gosh, thank you. I am Queen Leslie. No E at the end of Leslie. It's just L-E-S-L-I. Thanks a lot, Mom.

[1:11:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Queen Leslie on everything, on TikTok, on Instagram, on X. I still can't call it that.

[1:11:57] Lesli Margherita: I know. Doesn't it feel naughty?

[1:11:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It just feels naughty, and I'm not on it as much anymore. But yeah, follow me and just say hi. That video that you did while you were doing Guys and Dolls, because there was a little Adelaide in there. I love that you came on stage and did the video, and it was like Leslie, but with Adelaide in there a little bit. And you're talking about your nebulizer, and you're like, what?

[1:12:21] Lesli Margherita: Talking about my nebulizer.

[1:12:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What do you want from me?

[1:12:24] Lesli Margherita: At least I wasn't like way up here.

[1:12:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Nathan, that would have been horrifying.

[1:12:32] Lesli Margherita: Was that fantastic? Nikki Renee Daniels was on our show last year, and I thought your cast was just so brilliant.

[1:12:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was unbelievable. And I've played Adelaide a bunch, and I love it every time, and I find new stuff every time. It's, again, another perfect show. And I just, yeah, but that cast, Nikki, is phenomenal. So fun. It's just, yeah. And I love Adelaide so much.

[1:12:54] Lesli Margherita: You're so great at these roles that require a certain degree of animation. You know what I mean? They're kind of cartoony, but they're cartoony in real life, and you're so great at understanding how to meld both of those things together.

[1:13:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thanks. That's the hardest thing, I think. The hardest thing is those roles, is not being cartoon, but still being cartoony.

[1:13:12] Lesli Margherita: Still being a person.

[1:13:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, but still having the energy. It's really hard for younger actors to really tap into that energy, that comedic energy. And so it's so fun.

[1:13:27] Lesli Margherita: They don't teach it anymore. It's very old school. And like, I was going to say Anne Margaret and Miller, like all those women that were idols to me, that's where I learned it all from. And that just doesn't exist that much anymore.

[1:13:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, keep doing it, because you've got to teach the children.

[1:13:42] Lesli Margherita: You've got to teach the kids.

[1:13:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Auntie Leslie.

[1:13:45] Lesli Margherita: Yeah.

[1:13:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wait, isn't that what you call yourself, Aunt Leslie?

[1:13:48] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, Auntie Leslie.

[1:13:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Aunt Leslie has some things to say.

[1:13:50] Lesli Margherita: Auntie Leslie has a lot of things to say.

[1:13:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right. Thank you again.