This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know who wouldn't do that? Satine. Carol Channing.

[0:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are discussing the musical Moulin Rouge, a musical that's on our listener request list. Can't figure out who requested it. This is why I always say email the musical podcast at gmail.com because I want to give you listeners a shout out. Still, super grateful it's on our list and we're good that we're covering it with a wonderful guest. Ryan Garcia is well known for being one of the infamous Try Guys on YouTube. He's also a working actor and now a podcaster. His show Big Theatre Kid Energy is available everywhere you listen to podcasts. Please welcome the lovely Ryan Garcia. Hello.

[1:13] Ryan Garcia: I don't know if I'm one of the infamous Try Guys. There's definitely one infamous Try Guy.

[1:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Look, infamous in a good way.

[1:26] Ryan Garcia: Okay, fair enough. Because I'd say like one lives in infamy. I'm glad you brought this up so I didn't have to bring it up.

[1:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Forever. You know, no matter where they go, it always follows.

[1:36] Ryan Garcia: That's hilarious. Okay, I'm so grateful you're here. I got to let you know that the reason I reached out and wanted this collaboration to happen is because of my hubby, who is a big YouTube watcher and he found out about your podcast and he was like, hey, you should collaborate with this guy. His whole vibe is that he's the least pretentious theatre podcast out there. So I of course thought of you and I was like, oh, babe, that's so sweet that you think I'm not pretentious.

[1:54] Ryan Garcia: Well, maybe we'll be able to balance each other out here. Props to your husband. Wow. What I love. I love to hear that. Look, I'm grateful for him and I'm grateful for you bringing, I think, theatre reviews and opinions to I think a different audience than even I reach. So can you please tell me a little bit, I guess, about your relationship to musical theatre? Because I truly don't know.

[2:22] Ryan Garcia: Yeah. And then how did that evolve into the show? Yeah, it all kind of melds together with where the idea for the show came from, which is becoming, you know, I'm very much an actor. And then when I joined the Try Guys, it's totally foreign to me and uncomfortable and not the way that I'm used to performing. I don't know how to be me as an interesting and compelling character on camera.

[2:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, look, that would send me into a spin for sure.

[2:46] Ryan Garcia: Right. Because it's easy to understand the point of view of each of these characters I'm playing, but I'm trying to figure out what's the point of view of Ryan. It gets really convoluted. And also Ryan, the entertainer. So in trying to figure that out, I kind of was like, OK, well, what's my lane? And my lane is like I'm the they're all producers. Every one of the Try Guys is people that are actors and improvisers, but mainly they've produced stuff at BuzzFeed, which is where the Try Guys started.

[3:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, wow.

[3:15] Ryan Garcia: And for me, I was like, oh, I'm the theater kid of the Try Guys. And that's kind of where the idea for the show came around. I trained I got a BFA in acting from University of Central Florida and Orlando. A lot of people there are musical theater people. Justin Sargent, who went on to be Spider-Man and Rock of Ages and all that. A lot of them also did Disney, which has, you know, tons of equity, great equity shows happening at Disney.

[3:38] Ryan Garcia: And I am I don't consider myself a musical theater actor. And yet I get cast a lot in musical theater just because I think I'm very expressive. I can hold a tune. I can tell a story with song, even though I'm not the most legit singer, most important greedy in musical theater story. So when I started to feel like I realized I'm the theater kid, I got invited to go see Ann Juliet at the Amundsen because much like your husband, one of the marketing people over there is a Try Guys fan. And they were like, oh, Ryan loves theater. And they invited me for free. And I thought, oh, here's an opportunity to share my love for theater with all these people who are new fans now of mine through Try Guys in what feels like a very authentic and an organic way.

[4:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's amazing. So you grew up doing the theater.

[4:34] Ryan Garcia: I did. I joined. I actually started out doing commercials and movies and TV in Miami, Florida, joined SAG at seven years old.

[4:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[4:46] Ryan Garcia: Oh, yeah. Doing a seven up commercials where I got my SAG card. Crack Union. And then I, you know, left it when we moved to San Diego. They stopped. My parents stopped taking me out for said like, we're not driving him to L.A. And then when I got to high school, I was like, I got to do this. I got to keep going after it. And I did West Side Story and I did Damn Yankees and Fiddler on the Roof and Cinderella and all of the besties, all the biggies.

[5:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cute.

[5:17] Ryan Garcia: And then it continued on in college. And that's where I tried to be a pre-law and poli sci major with a B.A. in theater. But once my acting classes ended, I got really sad and switched majors to B.F.A. Much to the chagrin.

[5:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Of my parents.

[5:37] Ryan Garcia: Of your parents and also all of us who are like, oh, great. Another actor.

[5:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. No, everyone's always like, you know, we need another lawyer, another politician.

[5:47] Ryan Garcia: Oh, it's true. It's true. I'm well, look, I'm grateful you're here. I'm grateful you had that journey. OK, so just so you know my story.

[6:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[6:01] Ryan Garcia: Farm boy from Utah started clogging country western, like lots of jingle jangle with the fringe and then eventually found community theater, said goodbye to clogging. Hello, tap dance shoes. And I was Michael and Peter Pan in fourth grade and then truly didn't look back. There was never any other choice. I completely found my everything.

[6:24] Ryan Garcia: I so get that. And, you know, I actually have trophies somewhere in an attic from me tap dancing when I was a child. I couldn't do a single step now, but I did a lot of it when I was six and seven.

[6:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Look, when you're six and seven, it's a lot of arms and it's a lot of sell it face. And there's nothing else if I don't got sell it face.

[6:39] Ryan Garcia: That's right. But, you know, I really do think, you know, in that way that there's nothing else I could do. I really do think like in a big way, theater saved me from being a very miserable human being because I'm so left brained and so analytical and such a perfectionist and theater forced me into this place of like self-evaluation and understanding and learning and growing through story and art and other creatives like that was such an important part of me becoming this fully formed three-dimensional human being that I don't think would have happened if I stuck to law school.

[7:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I get that. I feel the same way about moving to L.A. versus moving to New York, where I am my mother's son. I do do do go, go, go. And New York in my 20s, we may have like eaten each other alive. And I'm pretty sure that New York would have won, you know, in terms of that battle. But L.A. gave me space. L.A. gave me a chance to breathe and figure out who I was and what I wanted to do. And so I'm very grateful for the West Coast for that very reason.

[7:44] Ryan Garcia: Agree. Talk to me about we're here to talk about Moulin Rouge, of course, fan of the film. When did you see the musical? Spoiler alert. I haven't seen the stage musical in person. I have seen slime tutorials.

[7:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Great. I you know, the movie is one that I don't think I ever really did it for me, to be honest.

[8:04] Ryan Garcia: OK, great. I love this because, boy, opposite for me.

[8:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You love the movie.

[8:18] Ryan Garcia: Yes. Can't wait.

[8:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, great. For me, the movie is it just it didn't hit me. It just didn't hit me at the right time. So like I don't have the nostalgia piece where it connects. I think it did a lot to probably forward certain styles of filmmaking and especially Baz Luhrmann in general. But like it's such an acid trip of a movie that I'm like, what am I even connecting to here where, you know, I really do. I just saw the musical in November here at the Pantages. And what's really fun about it and what's really fun about my podcast, too, is like one. It's just to show that like there's actually some good stuff happening in L.A. outside of getting into a tour bus and seeing celebrities homes.

[8:54] Ryan Garcia: And two, I got to take someone who really doesn't have any connection with theater to go and see this. And that's like the entry point for the audience of like, you're going to have me who's like a little theater boy. And then this Rosanna Pansino, who's like a bubbly personality on the Internet who really has no connection to theater, also obsessed with Rosanna Pansino, who is not. She's my neighbor. I love her.

[9:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is she really?

[9:29] Ryan Garcia: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I made her. I can't believe I'm saying this on the podcast. She made these oatmeal cream pies like Little Debbie's. She like redid the recipe. So is homemade. And I have made them no fewer than two times. And it's only been two times because it is very laborious. Like there are a lot of steps. You got to get like the very specific flour. You got to make raisin paste. It's a whole thing. But my gosh, they are phenomenal. Highly recommend five stars.

[9:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. I need to go see her make that now because I'm never going to do it.

[10:01] Ryan Garcia: Force her to make them for you. That's a good idea. But going to see it with her also just like she's she was so excited by having this night out at the theater. And what I love about this show, too, is like it kind of is in line with what I was saying earlier about how theater kind of saved me from myself is like it's just such like the bohemian ideals that are that smack you in the face of truth, beauty, freedom, love. It's just like, yeah, come on, pull it out of your head just like that.

[10:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's that was you had committed to memory. I'm really impressed.

[10:38] Ryan Garcia: Thank you. Well, but it's like that was the thing that's like, yeah, I'm like I'm energized. I'm excited to create and work with other creatives. Like I think when you're talking about like the impact of a show, I think and I think that's very in line with what I'm trying to focus on, which is how is my body chemistry changed from when I enter the theater to how I exit? And when I walk into the theater after Moulin Rouge, like I just felt energized to create, to build, to support my fellow artists, you know?

[11:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, what a great thought. That's wonderful. OK, so for me, Moulin Rouge was the first musical, once again, Utah boy. So, I served my mission, my two-year mission for the church, right? And I come home and you've been on a strict diet of no TV film, no music, no nothing. So, I've been gone for two years in like the early 2000s and I had missed Moulin Rouge. So, the first film that I watched at home was a DVD of Moulin Rouge because everyone told me this is like the movie that you missed while you're away. You got to watch it. Grandma had bought the DVD. God bless her. So, I put on the DVD in the basement and you can imagine it feels like an acid trip when you've been taking in media. Now, imagine that you're

[12:06] Ryan W. Garcia: I felt like I was losing my mind. And I just also had never seen anything like it. But by the end, I had become so emotionally invested and felt truly like I was watching the most romantic thing I'd ever seen, like romantic in just a truly emotional, earnest way, that I immediately started over and watched it again. Wow. I loved, and the more that I've had distance from it, and I go back and I watch it, I think what I love most about it is this crazy hodgepodge quilt of pop culture that they wove together to create the feeling of this place, of this time, and these characters. It's why I've never thought of Moulin Rouge! as a jukebox musical, something where we just take pre-existing songs and shove them into the story, because you had everything from opera voices to the whisper Christian of Nicole Kidman, a big band version of Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend into Material Girl. It truly has so much variety in its musical storytelling that it felt like its own thing. It didn't feel to me like just your average jukebox musical. Does that kind of make sense?

[13:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That makes so much sense. And it makes sense why this film was so formative for you.

[13:52] Ryan W. Garcia: Yeah, 100%. I just loved the originality of it. Now, the movie came out in 2001, starring, of course, Nicole Kidman, who had her biggest year ever, by the way. I forget the Moulin Rouge! and the others came out in the same year. Are you kidding me? Whoa. That's a big year. Anyway, Nicole Kidman, Ewan McGregor, it makes $180 million. It only cost about 50, so it was a huge, huge hit, especially at this point. This was pre-Chicago, so I don't know if musicals were back. It's the third film of Baz Luhrmann's Red Curtain trilogy. And for those who don't know, the trilogy has nothing to do with each other. It's strictly Ballroom, Romeo and Juliet, Moulin Rouge! Those are his three films. The reason they're part of a trilogy is because he wanted to create one film to explore dance, the spoken word, and music.

So, strictly Ballroom, about ballroom dancers, hilarious, so campy. It's all about dance. Romeo and Juliet, obviously, the words of William Shakespeare, so it's all about the text. And then Moulin Rouge! is just jam-packed, like we said, with songs of all genres, exploring literally the sound of music. So, these three movies are a huge section of his early career, and I think it was pretty clear, in the same way that when The Greatest Showman came out, we're like, oh, well, there's going to be a stage adaptation, right? It only makes sense. But what's really fascinating is that when Baz Luhrmann then did come to Broadway, it wasn't with Moulin Rouge! It was with his version of La Boheme, the opera, which has a lot of connection, I think, to Moulin Rouge!

But that was what he brought to Broadway. He really hasn't had anything to do with this Broadway adaptation in the same way. So, the stage adaptation is very different. It sounds like maybe you like the changes?

[16:01] Ryan W. Garcia: There's, okay, well, you know, the way that you're talking about Moulin Rouge! the movie is in this beautiful macro sense of what the entire tapestry of it does with its storytelling, and I think there's so many threads within it, within the micro looking deeper, that maybe are aspects of the time period of when it was made, or just aspects of maybe my, I'm not as connected to Baz Luhrmann's style, that is, it's a very strong style, and sometimes doesn't. And so maybe that's what's pushing my buttons away. But I think there are certain things that the musical has improved upon in the greater storytelling. I agree. That made me be like, yeah, this is kind of, I'm glad that they didn't just do a scene-for-scene, page-for-page remake, that they actually were like, well, what if we actually, what if we gave some more agency to Satine?

What if we made this more of a camaraderie between these artists and performers, rather than some woman stabbing another woman in the back because of jealousy? You know, certain moments like that. Although one thing that I wish they had changed is why in both Moulin Rouge!'s, there's a gun, and it never goes off. We introduce this gun, it's flying around, everyone has their hand on it, nobody shoots it. That's like an important rule in storytelling. If you show a gun, you shoot it. The smoking gun is not smoking after all. Never! There are really interesting things that they did bring to the musical. It comes, of course, way later. We said that the film is 2001. The stage musical premieres in, what, 2019?

[17:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[17:54] Ryan W. Garcia: Which was, as everyone remembers, a totally normal time. It's a Broadway season that is cut short by the pandemic. It's also maybe the weirdest Tony Award season of all time. Moulin Rouge! wins a lot of awards. I'm not going to pretend like it didn't deserve them, but the truth is that there wasn't a lot of competition because other things hadn't had the chance to open. So it wins Best Musical, it wins Best Direction, it wins Best Costumes, it wins kind of everything amazingly talented. Aaron Tveit wins Best Actor, and he was the only one nominated in the entire category.

[18:35] Ryan W. Garcia: Yeah, versus nobody. Funny enough, that season also had Jagged Little Pill, the Alanis Morissette, Diablo Cody musical, and so all of the Best Score nominees were actually plays because there's no original music in Moulin Rouge! and no original music in Jagged Little Pill. So that's kind of crazy. There are four nominees for Best Score, and all of them are straight plays. I was talking to my friend who was in the tour and then also has been Satine on Broadway, Nikki Klespell. She's Best Friends with my best friend Jordan Kibernet.

[19:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh!

[19:14] Ryan W. Garcia: I did a musical out here called Found with the theater company I'm a member of. I am a theater company here in LA. Yes, of course I am. We did a musical directed by Moritz von Stülpnagel, and Jordan and I were in that show, and we became Best Friends immediately.

[19:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, how crazy. We have a lot of mutual friends.

[19:32] Ryan W. Garcia: So many mutuals, and then got to meet Nikki through Jordan, and so I was like, oh, in preparation for coming on here with you, I thought I'd message Nikki to say, hey, anything interesting I should talk about or that I should ask? Well, a few things, and I'll litter them through little fun nuggets as we go, but this is one that has to do with the Tony Awards that I thought was super interesting. They had invited about eight of the women from the tour to participate in the performance, even though they were still months away from starting rehearsals. And so she actually danced in a Broadway theater before she ever did a show on Broadway, because she was part of the pandemic Tony Awards.

[20:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[20:12] Ryan W. Garcia: How wild is that?

[20:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What a wild time.

[20:16] Ryan W. Garcia: What's impressive is that the show came back after the pandemic was over, and it is still running. It has a closing date for August this year, but by the time it closes, it's over 2,000 performances. It's been a huge, huge hit. I know many people, I've taught classes where students have said it's their favorite show of all time. So I know that in talking about impact, the amount of people who have seen it either on Broadway, on the national tour, and who hold it really dear in their hearts is impressive, to say the least. So I know this is something that you wanted to talk about at some point, but it feels like a good moment just to say that Moulin Rouge! has had this long life, that the actual Moulin Rouge! in Paris is still open and functioning, even though it opened in 1889, this same year as the Eiffel Tower being finished.

[21:13] Ryan W. Garcia: Okay, this is great. So let's dive into this. Thank you for the segue. So this time period that Moulin Rouge! is, I guess, symbolizing, embodying, is called La Belle Epoque. Is that how you say it? We're going to find out how bad my French is in this episode if you don't already know. But it's essentially this time period from the late 1800s up until World War I. Now, it's known for being this huge time of, I guess, yes, maybe enlightenment, but also just art and culture and these incredible masterpieces that all kind of happened in the same time period. Eiffel Tower, right there. Follies Berger, right there. Impressionism, honestly, gets really popular during this time as well. Now, it wasn't necessarily the happiest time, but because of all of these artistic innovations, I think once the world wars, and that's one and two, back to back, that were really hard on France, everyone started looking back at this time with nostalgia as being the time of living through love, right?

And art and creation. And so, to this day, I think we have a little bit of rose colored glasses on this time. What I love about the stage version of Moulin Rouge is that it reminds us that poverty in Paris is rough. And just because you were in the arts and the arts were beloved in the country and in the city did not mean you were well taken care of or you had food on your table, any of those things. These artists are starving artists truly.

[23:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is such a strong theme, the haves and have nots in the show Moulin Rouge. And I was also going to add on to what you were saying, which is not only is this a time of artistic innovation, but also a time of technical innovation, where Paris became the city of light. Electricity was going everywhere. And the Moulin Rouge was one of the first buildings to use electricity fully. So, it had all these bright lights and a world of candles.

[23:39] Ryan W. Garcia: Oh, cool.

[23:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it really just was this, which I think is, again, in line with what Moulin Rouge is, a massive spectacle in this city.

[23:47] Ryan W. Garcia: Yes. Oh, that's so neat. In a world of candles.

[23:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[23:52] Ryan W. Garcia: I love that. That paints a picture, you know, speaking of painting.

[23:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is exactly, I think, when you go... What I love about the stage version, too, is when you walk in, the opening image you're seeing, it looks like it's just the curtain with Moulin Rouge written on it, and it's lit very beautifully. But it's actually the stage.

[24:12] Ryan W. Garcia: I think the thing that I love about "Moulin Rouge!" is that it really captures the essence of love in a way that is both grand and intimate. The way that it uses music to tell the story is just so powerful.

[24:42] Ryan W. Garcia: And I think that the film did a great job of setting up that world, but the musical takes it to another level with the live performances and the energy that you get from the audience.

[25:12] Ryan W. Garcia: You really feel like you're part of the experience, and I think that's something that makes it so special.

[25:42] Ryan W. Garcia: Plus, the choreography is just phenomenal. Every number is so well crafted, and it really showcases the talent of the performers.

[25:52] Ryan W. Garcia: I mean, when you see those dancers on stage, it's like you're transported to this whole other world.

[26:02] Ryan W. Garcia: And the way they incorporate all those different songs into the score is just brilliant. It feels like a celebration of music itself.

[26:12] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that's one of the reasons why it resonates with so many people, because it pulls from so many different genres and eras.

[26:22] Ryan W. Garcia: It really speaks to the universal experience of love and longing, which is something that everyone can relate to.

[26:32] Ryan W. Garcia: And the emotional highs and lows throughout the show really take you on a journey.

[26:42] Ryan W. Garcia: You laugh, you cry, you feel everything in between, and that's what makes it such a compelling piece of theatre.

[26:52] Ryan W. Garcia: I think the creators did an incredible job of capturing that spirit and energy.

[27:02] Ryan W. Garcia: And the set design! Oh my gosh, it's just stunning. The way they bring the Moulin Rouge to life on stage is breathtaking.

[27:12] Ryan W. Garcia: You can really feel the vibrancy of that time period, and it adds so much to the overall experience.

[27:22] Ryan W. Garcia: I think it’s a perfect example of how musical theatre can transport you to another place and time.

[27:32] Ryan W. Garcia: And the love story at the center of it all is just so beautifully told. It’s tragic yet hopeful.

[27:42] Ryan W. Garcia: You really root for the characters, and you want them to find their happiness, even when the odds are stacked against them.

[27:52] Ryan W. Garcia: It’s a testament to the power of love and art, and I think that’s why it resonates with so many people.

[28:02] Ryan W. Garcia: And the way they handle the themes of sacrifice and loss is just so poignant.

[28:12] Ryan W. Garcia: It really makes you think about what you’re willing to give up for love, and that’s something that everyone can relate to.

[28:22] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that’s what makes "Moulin Rouge!" such a timeless piece.

[28:32] Ryan W. Garcia: It’s not just a story about love; it’s a story about the lengths we go to for the people we care about.

[28:42] Ryan W. Garcia: And that’s a message that will always be relevant.

[28:52] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that’s why it continues to resonate with audiences today, even years after its original release.

[29:02] Ryan W. Garcia: It’s a celebration of life, love, and the power of art to connect us all.

[29:12] Ryan W. Garcia: And I think that’s something we can all appreciate, especially in times like these.

[29:22] Ryan W. Garcia: It reminds us of the beauty that exists in the world, even amidst the chaos.

[29:32] Ryan W. Garcia: And that’s something worth celebrating.

[29:42] Ryan W. Garcia: So, I’m definitely a fan of both the film and the musical. They each bring something unique to the table.

[29:52] Ryan W. Garcia: And I think that’s what makes "Moulin Rouge!" such a special piece of art.

[30:02] Ryan W. Garcia: It’s a true testament to the power of storytelling and the impact it can have on our lives.

[30:12] Ryan W. Garcia: And I think that’s why we keep coming back to it, time and time again.

[30:22] Ryan W. Garcia: It’s a reminder of the magic that exists in the world, and that’s something we all need now more than ever.

[30:32] Ryan W. Garcia: So, I’m excited to dive deeper into it with you today!

[30:42] Ryan W. Garcia: Let’s explore what makes "Moulin Rouge!" so special and how it continues to inspire audiences around the world.

[30:52] Ryan W. Garcia: I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on it as well!

[31:02] Ryan W. Garcia: So, where do you want to start?

[31:12] Ryan W. Garcia: There’s so much to unpack with this show, and I’m ready to dive in!

[31:22] Ryan W. Garcia: Let’s talk about the characters and their journeys first, because I think that’s where a lot of the emotional weight lies.

[31:32] Ryan W. Garcia: Each character has their own struggles and desires, and it’s fascinating to see how they intersect.

[31:42] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that’s what makes the story so compelling.

[31:52] Ryan W. Garcia: And the way the music enhances those character arcs is just brilliant.

[32:02] Ryan W. Garcia: It really adds another layer to their stories and makes you feel even more connected to them.

[32:12] Ryan W. Garcia: So, let’s dive into the characters and see how they each contribute to the overall narrative.

[32:22] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that will give us a great foundation for discussing the themes and messages of the show.

[32:32] Ryan W. Garcia: What do you think?

[32:42] Ryan W. Garcia: I’m excited to hear your insights on this!

[32:52] Ryan W. Garcia: Let’s get into it!

[33:02] Ryan W. Garcia: I think we should start with Christian, since he’s the heart of the story.

[33:12] Ryan W. Garcia: His journey is so relatable, and I think a lot of people can see themselves in him.

[33:22] Ryan W. Garcia: He’s an artist trying to find his voice in a world that often feels stifling.

[33:32] Ryan W. Garcia: And his love for Satine is what drives him to pursue his dreams, even when it seems impossible.

[33:42] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that’s such a powerful message about the importance of following your heart.

[33:52] Ryan W. Garcia: And it’s something that resonates with so many people, especially those in the arts.

[34:02] Ryan W. Garcia: So, let’s explore his character a bit more and see how he evolves throughout the story.

[34:12] Ryan W. Garcia: I think that will lead us into some really interesting discussions about the themes of love and sacrifice.

[34:22] Ryan W. Garcia: What do you think?

[34:32] Ryan W. Garcia: I’m ready to dive in!

[34:42] Ryan W. Garcia: Let’s talk about Christian and his journey!

[34:52] Ryan W. Garcia: I think there’s so much to unpack there.

[35:02] Ryan W. Garcia: And I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on it!

[35:12] Ryan W. Garcia: So, let’s get started!

[35:22] Ryan W. Garcia: I’m excited to explore this with you.

[35:32] Ryan W. Garcia: Let’s dive into Christian’s character and see what makes him tick.

[35:42] Ryan W. Garcia: I think it will lead us to some really meaningful conversations.

[35:52] Ryan W. Garcia: So, where do you want to begin?

[36:02] Ryan W. Garcia: I’m all ears!

[36:18] Ryan W. Garcia: Everything that you've ever wanted, then all you have to do is love me and that's just a choice. And he's very aware that like we're both gaining from this, right? I want to not pretend I want to gain you not only as a beautiful piece for me and someone who will love me, but also as a status symbol for when I love that in the musical version. There's a moment where we bring Satine into his world and she's very fish out of water. They're trying to fit in and failing him. I love that.

[36:48] Jeff Parsons: Oh me too. Is it purple?

[36:50] Ryan W. Garcia: I feel like I remember it being like a beautiful purple. Yeah, gorge. And that there's a trade as a trade that's happening here, which again, I think makes it a more compelling story personally for me because it makes it less melodramatic. Yeah, it makes it real tough sit tough question posed to Satine of like well, you could save the Moulin Rouge as a struggling artist commune or you could take care of yourself. Cuz guess what honey that coughing going away, consumption, which I didn't find out until googling is tuberculosis and there is no answer. I think maybe her best shot is going to the doctors the Duke has access to right the extending that life as long as possible. Maybe vacationing where that's humid. Yes, right, you know whenever I think of the consumption now, I think of weapons.

[37:41] Jeff Parsons: Mm-hmm when she's like he's got a touch of consumption. God that movie so good that movie so great. Anyway, now comes my favorite sort of scenes where there's mistaken identity, right? They send in Christian to talk to Satine about the play. She of course thinks he's the Duke. He sings she as a bohemian is drawn to his heart and his just completely earnest expression of love and can't help but feel for him. Unfortunately, he's not the Duke though. And when the Duke comes in who also has a proposition pitch if you will, she is now kind of torn between not just these two men, but these two ways of life.

[38:27] Ryan W. Garcia: The good news is the Duke is interested in saving the theater, but he wants total control of it. Yeah and total control of Satine. Yep, so the whole first act well, I guess the rest of the show really is about figuring out what's worth it and what isn't. And I think that's another aspect to the differences in the Dukes. This Duke is also you can't pull one over this Duke as easily.

[38:54] Jeff Parsons: Right, which takes away the device of having to have and I don't think I don't remember the name of the character in the movie, but it's basically the Nini character the tattletale.

[39:05] Ryan W. Garcia: Yes, we're in this one Nini comes up and is like hey the Duke's gonna figure this out. He's not stupid. Duke knows that you're having this little love affair. He's gonna find out you're having this little love affair with the beautiful Christian and the artistic Christian and if that happens not only are we all in danger you're in serious danger. Yeah, I know this dude the last time that he was mad at a girl he dated he threw acid in her face, right? Which I just again, I think it's just maybe just a modernized version of it, but it also just makes our antagonist more powerful and scary.

[39:39] Jeff Parsons: Hmm and changes the choices that we have to make because now like oh no, that's actually like a very formidable foe we're dealing with. Yeah, he's got a lot of power on a lot of levels. He's got a lot of power and isn't afraid to use it toxically.

[39:54] Ryan W. Garcia: Mm-hmm and Toulouse who you know where Santiago I think is like the sex of the show. It's I feel like every few minutes he's got a dick joke. Toulouse is very much like the beating heart of it and while he's directing this play that they've put on that they're putting on, which the difference between the movie and the musical is that it no longer has the cultural appropriation from the Indian culture Bollywood. There's no Bollywood coming on.

[40:21] Jeff Parsons: He's back I one of my favorite jokes in the whole show the fact that it's called Bohemian Rhapsody.

[40:29] Ryan W. Garcia: It's so good right it goes from being called spectacular spectacular to Bohemian Rhapsody.

[40:35] Jeff Parsons: You're so right about him being the heart because it's kind of like a bad leg. I don't know if he had maybe polio when he was younger or something, but he has some sort of handicap that has kept him small in many ways in his life if for no other reason than he was in love with Satine when they were kids and he never said anything. Yeah, and he uses that as an opportunity to tell Christian like don't give up. Yeah, you will regret this if you don't pursue it even if it is the Duke. Yep, and he's kind of the force for that. He's the force for that which I love that storyline.

[41:12] Ryan W. Garcia: And I also love the storyline that I think anyone who's done any kind of creative work, especially like let's say commercial work where you're dealing with a client that you're trying to tell us he's trying to tell the story of Bohemian Rhapsody with the client in his ear giving notes of how they think it should be done coming from the Duke where if you ever been on a commercial set as an actor or as a director or any creative place you're really dealing with like we're making this but really we're not the client is telling us how we're allowed to be creative.

[41:48] Jeff Parsons: Now that we've kind of laid the groundwork of the story let's talk about some of the music.

[41:53] Ryan W. Garcia: Mm-hmm, because it's filled with so much music. I believe there are 70 plus pop songs in the mouth in the stage version. Now I will say that I was a little bit of a judgy McJudgerson when I first listened to the Broadway cast recording and to be clear it doesn't have all of the music. Mm-hmm. That's in the show. It's probably not possible. Like you said, there's 70 plus songs, but when I was listening to it, it felt like all of the music or the vast majority of music that they added to the show was pop music from the 2000s on. Mm-hmm and it was the moment when I went. Oh, no now it's just a jukebox because I no longer had the Gilbert and Sullivan and I didn't have the Rogers and Hammerstein, you know, I kind of all of these like I said the quilt of musical styles to make it feel like something really unusual. It just felt like pitch-perfect. Yeah, you know like these mashups and that kind of hurt my heart a little bit.

[43:05] Jeff Parsons: What I will say is that when you go into the theater it is way more intentional and intelligent than what's represented on the cast album. There's still a lot of really fun theater bits there's like he even quotes South Pacific at some point. Anyway, it's not just Katy Perry, right?

[43:29] Ryan W. Garcia: No, I totally that that totally checks out and I think it also it leads me to another question which may be taking us fully off track. That's okay, which is you know, that's very much like marketing, right? We're trying to sell tickets trying to butts and seats and some some maybe producers said no, it's got to be modern songs only because that's who's gonna buy these tickets. Yeah, which also gives it a shelf life, right? It does it it could make it feel dated at some point very quickly.

[43:59] Jeff Parsons: But it also brings me to the question of like stunt casting which I think Moulin Rouge has become used as any show in Broadway as an opportunity for stunt casting to sell tickets and here's another nugget from Nicky who I asked Nicky do you want this out and Nicky's like not say it like the fact that like Taye Diggs was brought in and apparently Taye Diggs basically did not know his lines pretty much the whole time. He was there. Hey Megan the stallion and leaving early because she was in a breakup not necessarily an actor. I heard I actually heard lovely things about Megan the stallion in the show.

[44:41] Ryan W. Garcia: Yeah, that's not a cute look to leave the show. Oh, you know who wouldn't do that? Satine Carol Channing.

[44:51] Jeff Parsons: So like I think one like that's a larger conversation of like how is stunt casting affecting Broadway in general and and cheap maybe cheapening it in a certain way, but I felt like it was parallel to your conversation about how the music choice here in some way cheapens for you this especially what Moulin Rouge actually represents and what it's capable of doing.

[45:21] Ryan W. Garcia: Yeah, I agree it also I guess it paved the way in many ways for and Juliet. Mm-hmm musically, I have to remind myself that Moulin Rouge was first, right? Because they sound so similar in the way that they've approached their music integrations.

[45:39] Jeff Parsons: Agreed agreed that was the first show that I saw before starting the podcast and in those two I was like, did I just did I already see this? Have I seen this one already which Katy Perry song was in which one? Did they both have firework? I can't both have had firework. I hope they didn't know it once again, like I don't mean to be pretentious honestly, but when I'm like, there are more musicals on Broadway right now that have Katy Perry music wow, yeah, then like, you know other composers. It's ooh, that's rough.

[46:14] Ryan W. Garcia: Uh, no offense to Katie. Mm-hmm a time and a place for everything.

[46:18] Jeff Parsons: Okay time in a place for everything that being said of the new stuff. Do you have any favorites? I have one specific that I am obsessed with please start.

[46:25] Ryan W. Garcia: Bad romance. That's what I was gonna say. Oh my gosh. It's such a banger and the way that they've done it I love the Nini.

[46:39] Jeff Parsons: Santiago Santi, thank you. My gosh. I went through so many names and didn't want.

[46:49] Ryan W. Garcia: It's okay as the Garcia on the pod right now, I will safely say Santiago for both of us. Thank you. Santiago and Nini I love how hot they are like and the arrangement of that the ensembles just killing. It's so great. I also got to see such a good way to start the second act.

[47:07] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[47:08] Ryan W. Garcia: And I got to see Danny Burgos and Caitlin mesh play these two and Caitlin measures Nini was standout like show-stealing she was so spectacular.

[47:18] Jeff Parsons: Yeah that you know that being in place of Roxanne basically in in a certain way I don't think in a way the same style that we're not the same message by any means and they had such incredible chemistry Danny and Caitlin that watching them. I was like wow if this is what they're doing in front of everyone what's their like sex life behind closed doors? This guy be crazy.

[47:42] Ryan W. Garcia: What kind of Dom sub stuff are they getting into?

[47:47] Jeff Parsons: Or okay, so once I once my husband came and saw me in a show and he was really upset because in it I kissed a girl and he's an actor. So I was like, what is it? What's the deal? But he goes you never kiss me like that. Oh, I'm like that's not me. Yeah, I was pretending truly like I didn't feel it at all.

[48:14] Ryan W. Garcia: He was much more suave and debonair. I'm much more vanilla in real life. You know what I mean? How interesting is that? Anyway, so they.

[48:25] Ryan W. Garcia: Boring AF in the bedroom to be honest.

[48:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Good point, good point. Maybe it's all about the being seen that excites them.

[48:34] Ryan W. Garcia: Who knows. And what's the song that Christian has with the Green Fairy?

[48:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, that's an interesting thing. So the whole absinthe trip, which happens actually pretty early on in the musical and it's more celebratory. In the second act, they all drink absinthe, this, you know, glowing green juice to escape, I guess, the pain that Christian is facing about losing Satine to the Duke.

[49:04] Ryan W. Garcia: Ziddler's like, drink this, you'll feel better. So it starts out with Chandelier, right?

[49:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sia's Chandelier and then goes into Tango de Roxanne.

[49:16] Ryan W. Garcia: That's it. So that's kind of a cool thing where now he's having that kind of a bad trip about his feelings through these two songs. It's a really awesome sequence as well.

[49:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And he's under the impression, similarly to the movie, that Satine doesn't love him anymore.

[49:37] Ryan W. Garcia: Right. And what is he going to do about it? He's going to go be in the show, load the prop gun with real bullets and use it on himself during the show.

[49:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Use it on himself. And I saw, what I really loved about this is I got to see John Cardoza in the version that I saw playing Christian.

[49:57] Ryan W. Garcia: Thank you for remembering these actors' names, by the way. I think that's really cool.

[50:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of course. One, I remember the actors' names. And two, I do have the playbill still right here. And it's highlighted. But I will say John Cardoza is not in the playbill.

[50:13] Ryan W. Garcia: Jay Armstrong Johnson is. But John jumped into the tour to fill in for a period of time.

[50:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Jay Armstrong. And I got to actually work with John Cardoza on, side note, on just a reading of a Pat Benatar Romeo and Juliet, where he played Romeo and I played Paris. We did that. We did the reading out in New York. It was really wonderful.

[50:33] Ryan W. Garcia: How fun. And he's such an incredible performer to the point of when I saw him do that, it's one of these great things that I think they do really well. The Pantages, too, is like it's a deep stage and a big house that it was so filled for so much of it with the Moulin Rouge spectacle. And then in this moment, they stripped it all away.

[50:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's just John by himself for chandelier up on stage being a mess. And I love when a character, an actor really gets to show all the dirty parts. And so I think that was also for me one of the moments that really hit. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't all need to be this like we're putting on a show for you. Sometimes it's just let's see a guy breaking down in front of us. Vulnerability of that. Love it.

[51:17] Ryan W. Garcia: Two things that I want to bring up before I forget. Number one, the first act ends with Elephant Love Medley, which I think is a great choice.

[51:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[51:25] Ryan W. Garcia: They've also like supersized it at least twice as long and with 15 more songs. But it's a great ending to act one. And in act two, we get Come What May, the famous song from the movie.

[51:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, in prep for this episode, I didn't realize Come What May was written for Romeo and Juliet.

[51:48] Ryan W. Garcia: What?

[51:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The Baz Luhrmann movie. They ended up not using it. But if you look in the text, there's quite a bit of Shakespeare in there.

[51:56] Ryan W. Garcia: Yeah.

[51:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then when Moulin Rouge came around, they're like, oh, well, this song would be perfect for Satine and Christian. The reason I stumbled upon this because I thought, well, Come What May definitely was nominated for an Academy Award, right? For Best Original Song.

[52:11] Ryan W. Garcia: It wasn't because it was disqualified because it was originally intended for Romeo and Juliet.

[52:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's wild.

[52:20] Ryan W. Garcia: Isn't that interesting?

[52:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is interesting. So Come What May fits perfectly. It becomes their secret song. It becomes the way because, you know, things are getting dangerous with the Duke. It becomes their secret way to express their love without maybe everybody knowing quite so much.

[52:41] Ryan W. Garcia: Christian goes to Satine and sings it truly Romeo and Juliet style.

[52:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Go figure. And she comes out and rebukes him and says, I don't love you.

[52:52] Ryan W. Garcia: Of course, to save him, because this Duke is a dangerous man and wants to kill Christian. Like you said, he loads a gun and is planning quite a finale for the play when it premieres by taking himself out.

[53:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When they get into the show, and help me out if I'm forgetting, but then she, it becomes her opportunity to sing the secret song to let him know their love is true.

[53:24] Ryan W. Garcia: And she has ultimately chosen him over the Duke.

[53:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's exactly right. So he, thank goodness, doesn't kill himself. Unfortunately, there is death because at the end of all of this, she collapses. She gets consumed by the consumption. Nothing worse and passes away and pleads with him to tell their story.

[53:46] Ryan W. Garcia: Now, I hate to turn this conversation to financial matters, but how do they get out of financial trouble?

[53:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I couldn't remember if things turn around for them.

[54:00] Ryan W. Garcia: I don't know that they fully answer that question.

[54:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Maybe they do, and I've forgotten.

[54:07] Ryan W. Garcia: They may not literally answer it, but like you said, we know the Moulin Rouge is still open, so it's like, well, something worked out. I think, look, here's my imagination of it. The Duke took his money out, sure. But everyone already knew this show was happening, and now it's the hottest ticket in town. A show, Satine, the diamond of the Moulin Rouge, passed away during the opening night. I have to see what's so incredible about this show. Some other donors, because we know theater can't survive without the donors. Some other donors are like, well, the Duke won't do it. I do believe in truth, beauty, freedom, and love. And I'm going to jump in there. I'm putting money in. And they were selling tickets and getting donors, and then the rest is history.

[54:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Nene was a great understudy, so she probably hopped right in there.

[54:49] Ryan W. Garcia: Nene's great. Nene can handle that. And Nene can do it without having to fight against the tuberculosis taking away her lungs. You know how hard it is to sing when you've got tuberculosis in your lungs?

[55:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And a corset.

[55:05] Ryan W. Garcia: And a corset. Come on. She didn't have a freaking chance.

[55:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No. It's beautiful, though. What do we walk away with? So you said that you walked out of the show on cloud nine.

[55:16] Ryan W. Garcia: Yes, energized as a creative. To put myself out there, to try new things. And Rosanna was like, I want to take a heels class.

[55:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, how cute.

[55:28] Ryan W. Garcia: I want to dance sexy. All these people up there just fully flaunting and dancing. I want to do that. I want to own my sexuality. So is it about seeing these characters feel so empowered in their talents? Is it about the beautiful tragedy of seeing what people will do to live authentically? Is it all of the above?

[55:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's that, and it's also, I think, again, Toulouse. Toulouse being there. You know, there's so much right now. Like, oh, you have to be a multi-hyphenate to survive in this industry. You have to do what you have to create. You have to put yourself out there. You have to make your short film. You have to go to the short film festivals. You have to put something on Instagram. And I'm like, you know what really got me into this? Was telling a story on stage in front of people. I want to put together a show and put it on at the Hollywood fringe. Like, I just want to do something low-budge just because I love it, I think, is what Toulouse really put in me after watching this show.

[56:26] Ryan W. Garcia: Ah, what a great way to end. Well, I think that this show will continue. As soon as it becomes licensable, you know that every regional house is going to do it.

[56:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know that many high schools will.

[56:39] Ryan W. Garcia: That's okay, until the Moulin Rouge Teen Edition comes out.

[56:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, that's right, that's right. Which is very possible. But I think it's a really evocative story. It's such an interesting time. I'm not like a huge Paris guy, but you can get so caught up in all of that. It's really beautiful. So I'm really grateful that it exists, and I'll still watch the movie.

[57:06] Ryan W. Garcia: Good. And, you know, I re-watched the movie before I saw the musical, and I re-watched the movie before coming in here, and those might be the last two times I see it.

[57:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Look, I get it. We've got to shout out Caroline O'Connor, though. She's the main dancer. She's also Australian musical theater royalty. We love Caroline O'Connor.

[57:31] Ryan W. Garcia: I'm also going to shout out Ariana Rosario, who played Satine in my version, and also did the Broadway version as well. And just shout out to her for friggin' tearing it up on stage.

[57:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Love to hear it. Ryan, thank you so much for doing this with me.

[57:44] Ryan W. Garcia: Jeff, thank you. This was a blast.

[57:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me. Email me, please, at amusicalpodcast.gmail.com. If you haven't signed up for Patreon! What are you waiting for? Go to patreon.com slash amusicalpodcast and join us there for only a few dollars a month. You get access to bonus episodes, great conversations. I'm so grateful for all of the people that are over there on Patreon. I love creating those special things for you each month. You can also follow us on social media. We are on Instagram, we're on TikTok. We're always creating content. Share it so people can learn about the show. And if you're feeling generous and want to give back, go to our TeePublic store.

All the profits we receive from that we donate to Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS. More than anything, so grateful you're here. You matter. You are loved. Ryan, thank you again for being here. Can you please let us know how we listen to your podcast, follow you, and anything that you want to plug that's coming up?

[58:45] Ryan W. Garcia: Yes! Okay, so thank you so much, Jeff, for having me here. And anyone who wants to follow my podcast as well, on Instagram, it's at bigtheaterkidenergy. That's theater R-E. It's that on TikTok. It's that on YouTube. It's that on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you want to listen. Give it a little follow. Give it a subscribe. Check us out. And follow me at MuchosGarcias to see what I'm doing with the Try Guys and some theater that I've got coming up out here in L.A. with Shipwrecked Comedy. We're doing a musical version of the Edgar Allen Poe Murder Mystery Dinner Party, which came out 10 years ago. So keep an eye out. It's going to be on stage but also streamed for anybody who wants to watch it. So thank you so much.

[59:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That sounds like such fun. How cool. Ryan, thank you for being here. Thank you, whoever requested this. And thank you all for listening. Remember, the greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return, and I mean it. It's true. And I didn't like that in the movie he couldn't remember that line. Come on.

[59:52] Ryan W. Garcia: John Leguizamo, that's our conceit. The greatest thing you ever learned.

[59:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you know that poor John Leguizamo had to go to rehab for several months because he was in some crazy squat position for that entire filming?

[1:00:07] Ryan W. Garcia: I believe it. Poor John Leguizamo. What a beast.