This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I still come back to the whole Elizabeth I thing. I'm like, you're telling me Elizabeth I was related to Avril Lavigne? Like, you know what I mean? You're telling me that this is fact?

[0:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. And look, over the past few months, we've had some incredible guests on the show. I'm really proud of the episodes we've turned out, but I am the first to admit that the overwhelming majority have been gay white men. And today, that tyranny ends! We're covering the musical SIX, which was a listener request from Kaylee and others, and here to discuss it with me is the backstage blonde. Teale Dvornik began her Broadway career as a dresser in shows like Wicked. She has since created a successful history walking tour of the Great White Way and is the author of the book, which I'm a big fan of, History Hiding Around Broadway. Everyone, please welcome the wonderful Teale Dvornik! Yay!

[1:24] Teale Dvornik: Hello! Thank you for having me!

[1:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, I sit down off-Broadway with my Stage Light program, open it up, and literally, who's the first person I see in the program? Teale Dvornik. In an article about how you went from a Broadway dresser to a tour guide and author, I'm like, oh my gosh, this woman is everywhere. And I didn't know that you had been a dresser, and I had always wanted to have one on the podcast. Before we get into anything, can you help us all as listeners understand what that position does on Broadway?

[2:23] Teale Dvornik: Oh my god, we have so much to discuss. I'd love to talk about being a dresser. Basically, it's a Formula One pit crew. A Broadway dresser helps, they're a show facilitator. They help the actors do their very best job possible. So, whether that's standing backstage for a water cue and literally holding someone's water bottle and dabbing sweat, or doing a quick change, keeping everything organized backstage, dressers are there for all of it. You really are part technician, part psychotherapist. You know what I mean? When I've been in shows, sometimes my dressers have been the calming energy that I need in the show to re-center and be like, oh yeah, everything's fine, life is good, the world is real. And then I will say, I had a dresser once who, during a quick change, said, you look in mirrors a lot.

[3:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[3:18] Teale Dvornik: Well, maybe I look in mirrors too much because you don't look at me enough, okay?

[3:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, exactly. I think the best kind of dressers, they stay very calm in any situation and they just problem solve. And don't let the actor know that they're freaking out.

[3:35] Teale Dvornik: Just don't tell them, whatever it is.

[3:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Don't tell them.

[3:40] Teale Dvornik: So, how did you discover this little niche corner but incredibly important element of theater?

[3:47] Teale Dvornik: I kind of fell into it. I went to the University of Alabama my freshman year of college and majored in fashion design. And then when I transferred schools to Sanford University in Birmingham, costume design was the closest thing they had to fashion. And I just fell in love with it, the entire process, designing and then moving to being a dresser backstage. It was so much fun. And from there, I worked on cruise ships for two years as a wardrobe supervisor. And of course, on a cruise ship, it's only you. There's no other wardrobe crew. So, it's you and like 14 singers and dancers in the middle of the ocean, just problem solving and making the show happen.

[4:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which line were you on?

[4:27] Teale Dvornik: Norwegian.

[4:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wait. Okay, sorry. Keep going. We'll circle back to Norwegian later in the episode.

[4:34] Teale Dvornik: Oh, they're amazing. From there, I moved to New York City. I've been in the city for over 10 years. And Wicked was the first Broadway show I ever worked on.

[4:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. I mean, what a freaking world to jump into right off the bat.

[4:48] Teale Dvornik: Those costumes.

[4:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I've heard that the act two Elphaba dress is insanely heavy.

[4:56] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, it's about 15 pounds. Glinda's bubble dress is a little heavier.

[5:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, is it really?

[5:03] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. Can you believe those women singing "No Good Deed" with a dress that heavy? They are truly athletes.

[5:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, 100%. So then, how did that grow into tours and a book?

[5:15] Teale Dvornik: Well, I can't sit still. And I love history. And I just love hearing people's stories. So, I'd be backstage in between quick changes and asking these stagehands for stories about their careers or the dressers who were older than me. Just anything. Anything I could get about Broadway. I was eating these stories up. And from there, I started the Backstage Blonde as a blog. Really just tips and tricks like how to find the best theater tickets and history about these theaters. And as I delve deeper into what had gone on in these amazing buildings, these houses, I just kept finding interesting fun facts and really fun stories, which led me to becoming a licensed tour guide in the state of New York, giving these historic walking tours, which then led to a book deal.

[5:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, that's so cool. Congratulations.

[6:02] Teale Dvornik: Thank you.

[6:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I do have to say, I'm a fan of the book. I'm happy to report. I do get a lot of books because of the podcast. And I actually am a fan of yours.

[6:13] Teale Dvornik: Oh, that makes me so happy. I'm glad you actually really love it.

[6:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, the way that it's organized, it's cute as can be. It's the perfect size. It's going to age beautifully. You know what I mean? It's really quality. I highly recommend it.

[6:28] Teale Dvornik: And it looks cute on your coffee table.

[6:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. Exactly. Well, I'm happy you're here to talk about SIX because now let's talk about other interesting areas of your life. You grew up with a mom who was also a history buff?

[6:42] Teale Dvornik: Yes. Oh my gosh. My mom, she studied for a while at Oxford University and she got her master's degree in modern British history. So I grew up hearing these stories about the Queens. And when this musical came to Broadway, I was like, finally, finally, people want to talk about this with me. Because, you know, it's a big part of English history. But over here in the States, you don't really hear about it.

[7:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, no. I mean, most of my education comes from musical theater. I'm not gonna lie. But I knew of Anne Boleyn. That's pretty much it.

[7:13] Teale Dvornik: I've definitely received a crash course in the Queens since then. I'm wearing my Herstory shirt. I do love the show. I will let you know that when I first heard SIX, I thought, you know, if this musical had come out in the early 2000s, it would be an off-Broadway show. And that's it. I couldn't quite understand how it had blown up to be this huge Broadway smash, because conceptually, it almost felt like Alter Boys or something that I would have found off-Broadway in the early 2000s.

[7:46] Teale Dvornik: So true.

[7:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so I don't know if that's like a commentary on musical theater or on us as in terms of what we want and need as people or the fact that it's a 90-minute great time. And we need more of that on Broadway. Whatever it is, it's so cool that it has become this enormous hit in the same season as A Strange Loop, which won the Pulitzer and is fantastic, but is no longer running. You know what I mean?

[8:17] Teale Dvornik: Right.

[8:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A really cool story. So I'd love to jump into it. How much are you aware of how the show came to be? Do you kind of know any of the history about how it was made?

[8:27] Teale Dvornik: I do. Well, just that, you know, they were sitting in their dorm room basically at Cambridge University and had inspiration struck. And then the debut of the show was at the Fringe Festival.

[8:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So we're talking about Toby Marlowe, Lucy Moss, who were at Cambridge University in the Musical Theater Society. Why am I not in this group in Cambridge? Are you kidding me? That sounds absolutely fantastic.

[8:51] Teale Dvornik: So they receive this sort of call or invitation to create something for the Fringe. And so truly, like you said, they just create it in their dorm room. Why not? I mean, if there was ever a lesson in go for it, try it out, see how it goes, like this is it. I feel like every decade or so a musical comes along that's going to keep Fringe Festivals running for another 20 years. First, it was Year in Town, and now it's SIX. Because this thing premieres, it sells out. I mean, in terms of critical acclaim, it wasn't like the festival darling, but it was incredibly popular and gives way to a very unorthodox road to both the West End and the East End.

[9:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I want to take us through this because it's really interesting. It premieres at the Edinburgh Festival. Then it has this like pre-West End production back at Cambridge. Then it goes on tour. Then it has an open-ended run on the West End. Then it has the pre-Broadway tour in the United States, which is basically the Chicago production. Then, and now this is where we're going to Norwegian Cruise Lines. It has a production on Norwegian Cruise Lines before it even gets to Broadway. Usually, it's like the other way around, like Hairspray runs forever on Broadway. And then they're like, actually, now we'll license it to a cruise line. They did the opposite. Before it even got to Broadway, it was on a cruise line starting in 2019.

There's a production in Australia at the Sydney premieres of the Sydney Opera House. And then finally, after all of that, it gets announced for Broadway at the Lena Horne Theatre on the day of its scheduled Broadway opening. We're talking March 12, 2020. Y'all know what happens.

[10:53] Teale Dvornik: I was supposed to be there.

[10:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, tell me about it.

[10:56] Teale Dvornik: I had tickets to opening night.

[10:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're kidding me.

[10:59] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. And I'll never forget. I was sitting in the wardrobe room at Wicked when we all got the email. Broadway is shut down. We're taking two weeks off.

[11:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Two weeks.

[11:09] Teale Dvornik: Right.

[11:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wait, so not to put a pin in that, but was the pandemic a big reason for the pivots because you weren't able to dress anyone?

[11:22] Teale Dvornik: I think I had already been mulling around with the idea of starting to give these walking tours. But the pandemic really solidified that I wanted to own my own business. I didn't want my life and my stream of income to be dictated by somebody else.

[11:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fair enough. Fair enough.

[11:42] Teale Dvornik: How queen of that is me?

[11:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean, that's awesome. Very monarch.

[11:48] Teale Dvornik: I love it. So then after the pandemic, we're talking.

[11:53] Teale Dvornik: It didn't open.

[11:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 2021.

[11:55] Teale Dvornik: Was it 2021?

[11:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it was. It wasn't one of the first to open, but I feel like a month or so after Wicked.

[12:04] Teale Dvornik: September 17th, 2021. Man, that pandemic really took a lot of life out of the theater world. So then it finally opens over a year later on October 3rd. It's one of the reasons why I love that Broadway cast album where it's alive.

[12:22] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, the opening night because I wonder if on some level they're like, people are just going for it on that on that album. And I can't help but think it's because it had been such a long time coming.

[12:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was emotional.

[12:37] Teale Dvornik: I were you able to go there for that one?

[12:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yes, I was there.

[12:42] Teale Dvornik: Tell me about it. Oh, my gosh.

[12:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I was up in the mezzanine just losing my mind and everyone was wearing crowns. The after party was so fun. I went to the bathroom, come back out and my mom was talking to Lucy and Toby.

[12:55] Teale Dvornik: Whoa. Good job.

[12:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mother. I know it was a really incredible experience.

[13:02] Teale Dvornik: Okay. Now, Lucy, I think, made history for being the youngest director of a Broadway musical ever. How how old were these kids? I'm actually not even sure.

[13:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I can't remember. They were younger than me, though.

[13:15] Teale Dvornik: Okay, Toby was born in 1994. Lucy, when were you born? Lucy also born in 1994. Oh, good for you. Good for you, too. I also remember when at the Tony Awards that year, when they won for best score. And I think it was kind of an upset once again, because Strange Loop was such a critical darling that year. It was one of the first times where I went, oh, this is a new generation of queer representation.

[13:45] Teale Dvornik: Wearing this gorgeous dress. Lucy's like in a suit. You know, it felt like a new world post-pandemic that I think a lot of quote-unquote theater people didn't realize was in and around the Broadway scene.

[14:00] Gianna Yanelli: Absolutely.

[14:01] Teale Dvornik: And in many ways, I do think that that is at the core of what SIX is. Representing people whose stories have always been painted one way. We've always heard about these queens. We've always known that queer people exist, but to see them on their own platform tell their own story and do it in an empowering way suddenly felt fresh and exciting and new.

[14:31] Gianna Yanelli: There's so much under the surface. Yes, so exciting, so new. And finally, everything that was like, hiding is the wrong word, but just lying under the surface finally can roast the top.

[14:43] Teale Dvornik: You're so right. One of the amazing things that Toby and Lucy did conceptually with the show is that each queen is brought to life in a concert format where they are presented like pop girlies, like pop divas. And each queen has a couple of divas that represent their 2000s aura, to use a word from our Gen Z friends. So Aragon is a combination of Beyonce, maybe a little bit of JLo, and you hear that in the songs, you hear that in the production. No Way has a little bit of Spanish feel, right? You can definitely do a little salsa to it, but it's also got that Beyonce homecoming stomp the runway feel to it. And it's such a smart way to access a modern audience. Once again, because we have this preconceived notion of who these women were, but if we can find a musical vocabulary that then accesses us as theater lovers on a different level, which by the way is really what musical theater does so beautifully, then we know these women on a different level. All of a sudden we see Aragon, the first monarch as the queen bee, right? Because we are hearing that Beyonce influence.

[16:12] Gianna Yanelli: So tell me about what you knew about these queens going into the show, because it sounds like you already knew a lot more than I did.

[16:16] Teale Dvornik: Yes, I did. Well, I think Catherine of Aragon is really interesting because that caused major waves in the religious world. It's when the church split and not many people realized that's how the Episcopalian denomination really came to be, because she was this Catholic Spanish princess. Which is so cool, first of all. Are you kidding? Right? Yeah. So yeah, let's dive in and start talking about these queens. Catherine of Aragon is the first wife of King Henry VIII. She had been the wife of his brother, his older brother. Then older brother died. So then as part of her mourning process, she gets passed to the younger brother. Right. Trauma. And then they're married for quite some time. Like you said, she's from Spain, but she seems to be a very strong woman of faith.

And that's one of the things that I take away from the way that they present her in this musical. At some point, Henry wants the marriage annulled, which has never happened before, because it is completely against everything that Catholicism teaches.

[17:31] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. And so her being a woman of faith is like, no, no, no. You can't just pretend this marriage didn't exist because we are people of faith.

[17:37] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. Well, in the Catholic church as a whole, everyone was outraged. He manages to push it through because he said that the marriage was never his to begin with, because it was just the one inherited from his brother. Right. Because it was totally political. Just in case anybody doesn't know, this was like a political alliance between England and Spain.

[18:05] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, great point. Yeah. And she wasn't able to produce a male heir. She had one daughter named Mary.

[18:09] Teale Dvornik: Great point. Yep. So Henry's kind of started to lose it immensely by the end of his life.

[18:16] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. So that's kind of what was going on here. Daughters are so easy to forget. I guess I want to talk about King Henry VIII and then forget about him. How do you feel history has presented him?

[18:27] Teale Dvornik: As a really strong man, a big hunter, a big partier and drinker. And truly, he did. He started to lose it at the end. He was a womanizer, like any kind of king or man at that point. Power.

[18:46] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. The thing that I knew about King Henry VIII was that he was played by that hot dude on Showtime.

[18:52] Teale Dvornik: Right. Which is so unrealistic. Right.

[18:54] Gianna Yanelli: Apparently, he was hot when he was younger. And then-

[18:56] Teale Dvornik: Well, good for him. Good for him.

[18:57] Gianna Yanelli: You know, like youth, huzzah. But even looking at some of these quotes that I've been looking at over the past couple of weeks, an English historian, David Starkey, describes Henry VIII as such, quote, "What is extraordinary is that in the beginning of Henry's marriages, he was usually a very good husband. He was very tender to them." Research shows that he addressed some of his wives as sweetheart. Wow. I mean, gold star for him. He was a good lover. What? Why is history writing that down? He was very generous. The wives were given huge settlements of land and jewels. He was immensely considerate when they were pregnant. Once again, batting a thousand. However, if his current wife did not please him or did anything to fire his short temper, there would be consequences. Two of Henry's wives were beheaded by his command.

[19:48] Teale Dvornik: I can't help but feel, Gianna, that the last part of that quote, by the way, end quote, the last part of that quote, maybe shades the beginning of it a little differently. He was usually a very good husband. What exactly is the percentage of very good husband if out of the six wives, you executed two of them?

[20:10] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, again, I think politics plays a huge, huge role in so much of this and definitely the two queens who were beheaded. But as far as him being a loving and caring husband, I've been to Hampton Court Palace, which is pre-Windsor Castle. This was where he loved to party.

[20:30] Teale Dvornik: Thank you for explaining it because once again.

[20:32] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, that's where Jane Seymour is buried. I've been in the room where he made this altar to her almost. It's a really, really gorgeous space, and he really loved her.

[20:46] Teale Dvornik: It's just tragic that her and the son died.

[20:49] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, interesting. He's buried next to her, right?

[20:52] Teale Dvornik: Yeah.

[20:53] Gianna Yanelli: Which is cool. But then also, you can't help but wonder, she is the one who gave him the son. So then, is that why? I think that's the problem with power and politics is that you can talk about people as people, but lying underneath is something else that can always make me question, oh, was it really, though, just all about politics and power? I think there still has to be a little humanity in all of it.

[21:24] Teale Dvornik: I would hope so. I would hope so, but a third of the wives were killed, thanks to him.

[21:33] Gianna Yanelli: Right, he could have overruled that.

[21:34] Teale Dvornik: It's not a great track record.

[21:36] Gianna Yanelli: No.

[21:37] Teale Dvornik: No, granted, were things very different back then? Yeah, I guess a lot of people were executed. So, if we're talking about percentages, maybe that's something to keep in mind. All I'm saying is that in terms of history, the way that it's been presented to me is that he was a very charismatic ruler. He was a very important ruler, and he burned through wives like I burn through popcorn at the movie theater. So, the idea then that this show is like, enough of that story. Let's look at it a different way, because at the end of the day, historians are doing the best they can. But maybe, like you said, there's a little more humanity that we're not looking at.

[22:16] Gianna Yanelli: And I think two things can be true at the same time. Someone can be a bummer of a person, but also do incredible things. Picasso, he was a bummer of a man, but he's one of the greats of all time. Or Rudy Giuliani, he cleaned up New York City. He created the New York and the Broadway industry that we now know and love, but he lost it and is now a bummer. Honestly, Henry VIII and Rudy Giuliani, that's a similar trajectory, if you ask me.

[22:45] Teale Dvornik: A really good point, Gianna. Thank you for saying that. Great. So, Aragon, once again, first wife, super loyal to the church. They end up getting annulled. Now, one of the big things about this show is that in many ways, it's based on the little rhyme that British school children learn, which is divorce, beheaded, died. Divorce, beheaded, survived, right? That's how you remember the wives is through that little rhyme. Even Howard at the beginning of the show says, just one word and a stupid rhyme, right? I read this quote and I liked it. It said, the poem should actually be annulled, annulled, died, annulled, beheaded, survived. He kept on pushing control, I'll delete. He annulled his marriage with Aragon in order to marry Anne Boleyn, wife number two. In fact, now that we're here at Anne Boleyn, I think maybe we should talk to somebody. I'm talking about the current Broadway Anne Boleyn, Gianna Yanelli.

[23:56] Teale Dvornik: All right, so I am hanging out with the current queen of green, the Anne Boleyn on Broadway, Miss Gianna Yanelli. Wait, I'm saying that correctly, right? Gianna Yanelli.

[24:01] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, that's correct.

[24:06] Teale Dvornik: I mean, it's a great name, Gianna. Thank you. I never want to change it. Even when I get married, it won't be changed. No, it just flows off the tongue. I'm so grateful you're here. Thank you for being here.

[24:16] Gianna Yanelli: Thank you, me too.

[24:20] Teale Dvornik: Well, I wanted to start out our little conversation here by reading something to you from our guest Teal's new book. Teal wrote a book called Hiding History Around Broadway, and each section of the book focuses on one Broadway theater. Now, you queens are at the Lena Horne Theater.

[24:31] Gianna Yanelli: Yes.

[24:32] Teale Dvornik: So I am headed to that chapter and it says, quote, "The Lena Horne, an elaborate theater built in 1926, was created in a modern Spanish style, hey Aragon, with twisted columns on the facade and an ornate interior that contains elaborate murals." It's true. It's a gorgeous theater. I was there just a month ago. Herbert J. Crapp, that's Crapp with a K and two Ps, was the architect. He was highly sought out for a reason. Not only would he design visually interesting theaters, but he also always kept the audience in mind. For this specific theater, he included only one balcony during a time when double balconies were popular, and he designed an auditorium that's wide instead of deep to create an intimate ambiance. Thanks to Crapp, The Lena Horne is considered one of the best theater watching experiences on Broadway.

[25:30] Gianna Yanelli: Oh my gosh. Isn't that cool? Your audiences get to be in one of the best viewing experiences.

[25:37] Teale Dvornik: I love this theater. I think it's pretty perfect, especially with the amount of seats, how intimate it is for a Broadway theater.

[25:40] Gianna Yanelli: But I just learned that on February 15th will be a hundred years.

[25:45] Teale Dvornik: So I'll be there. Yeah, which is so cool.

[25:48] Gianna Yanelli: It looks fantastic. It really, really does. And to your point about it feeling intimate, I was on the back row of the balcony when I saw your show, and I could still see the eyeshadow.

[25:59] Teale Dvornik: Oh, really?

[26:01] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. Still twinkling.

[26:04] Teale Dvornik: Okay, good to know.

[26:05] Gianna Yanelli: So it's worth it. It's worth it.

[26:07] Teale Dvornik: And you're absolutely fantastic. Can you talk to me a little bit about your journey with this show? Was it on your bingo card? Did you want six?

[26:19] Gianna Yanelli: My journey was from the very, very beginning. So when I was doing Mean Girls, that was 2018. And I got an appointment for the show for the very beginning, when it was going to Chicago and then Toronto and then somewhere else and then slated for Broadway. So I went in and eventually was getting called back for Anne Boleyn. So that was the first year. I had gotten really, really far. I did not get to the very finals, but I had just gotten to the round before the finals. So I was obviously bummed, but pretty thankful that now in these times where I'm like, oh my God, jobs are scarce, I had a job still. So I was able to still dream about it from afar and be like, eventually, eventually. Then the pandemic happened.

And then in 2022, I went back in for the same role, Anne Boleyn. And at that point, I had gotten to the very last rounds. And from what I was told, it was between me and someone else. So I'd gotten that far. Still didn't get it. So I was like, all right, maybe this show-

[27:26] Teale Dvornik: Come on!

[27:26] Gianna Yanelli: I know, I know. I was like, you know what, maybe this show really isn't for me. And of course, when I let it go-

[27:32] Gianna Yanelli: Just like Elsa.

[27:34] Teale Dvornik: Let it go. Exactly. I got a call and it was so, the way that it happened just really made me trust the universe even more because it really had, oh my god, it's 12.12 right now.

[27:47] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah.

[27:48] Teale Dvornik: I know it's 9.12 for you, but it's 12.12. I just looked at the clock.

[27:50] Gianna Yanelli: Make a wish.

[27:52] Teale Dvornik: Make a wish. I had gotten a call from my agent and I would, of course, I had literally let it go. I can't tell you how much I had not been thinking about it. My agent was like, so they want to see you for SIX. I was like, oh my god, I didn't even know they were having auditions. He's like, yeah, they actually want to see you for a work session. You don't need to do any of the other rounds. They know you. I was like, oh, okay, fierce. They remember me great. But I had a flight out to California and at that time I was broke and I couldn't afford to change my flight. And frankly, I didn't want to change my flight because I wanted to go.

[28:31] Gianna Yanelli: You'd let it go.

[28:31] Teale Dvornik: Exactly.

[28:33] Gianna Yanelli: Yes.

[28:33] Teale Dvornik: So I said to my agent, pretty confidently, I was like, they need to see everything that day because I can't come to final callbacks. And they're like, okay, they'll fit it in. So I did the entire audition. I was there pretty much because I had to do everything. I was there from like 10 a.m. to like 3 p.m. It was a full day. And at that point, I just was like, all right, it is what it is. Went to California and not a month later is when I got the call.

[29:02] Gianna Yanelli: Wow.

[29:02] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. So it's kind of like, just like in dating world when they're like, if they wanted to, they would. Well, if they wanted to, they will.

[29:10] Gianna Yanelli: They will.

[29:10] Teale Dvornik: They will. So yeah, that one is one of my, because it really did change the course of my mindset in this industry. Like where I was like, okay, you know what? I'm at a point in my life, right? I'm in my 30s where I'm like, I obviously want to be at a certain place in my career, but I'm also not going to stop living my life. So if that means that like this audition is coming when I'm going on vacation, I'm going to take the vacation.

[29:37] Gianna Yanelli: It's true.

[29:39] Teale Dvornik: I think one of the things that makes us really great on first dates as actors is that we do this audition thing, right? And we were like, what do you want? I'll give it to you just as long as you give me the job.

[29:51] Gianna Yanelli: Yes.

[29:51] Teale Dvornik: And it's a really good thing in many situations. And then other times you got to have some boundaries and sometimes boundaries are hard, but they actually create a lot of respect on the other end.

[30:05] Gianna Yanelli: You know what? I used to be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's true. It's actually true. And I feel like the more you lean into that, the better, because you'll also just gain self-worth.

[30:16] Teale Dvornik: Amen. Well, I got to tell you that when, so I was talking to my friend before I came to see your show and they were like, what are you doing tomorrow? I said, oh, I'm going to try and squeeze in the matinee of SIX. And they said, without even hesitating, low drama queens. So like, I don't know if that's true.

[30:33] Gianna Yanelli: It is.

[30:33] Teale Dvornik: But well, and that's fantastic. I was like, how cool that that's going around the Broadway community.

[30:39] Gianna Yanelli: I love that. Oh my god.

[30:40] Teale Dvornik: That the queens and the Lena Horne are low drama.

[30:42] Gianna Yanelli: Wait, I have to go tell the girls today because we constantly, so first of all, there are a few cute, well, one really cute story that I like to tell everybody is we all got in trouble by the SM because we were kiki-ing so hard in the dressing room together. Like we don't even share a dressing room. So if just like we kind of go to one and they're like, we love how much you guys love each other. But when we call places, you gotta go first.

[31:10] Teale Dvornik: Please get to yours.

[31:14] Gianna Yanelli: Because I can't express how much.

[31:15] Teale Dvornik: Divorced and there's no one there.

[31:18] Gianna Yanelli: But like we are in the dressing room cracking up laughing, like telling stories, making TikToks like we go on cabin trips. We've gone on two cabin trips already on our days off. Like I have never only one time have I kiki-ed this hard with a cast. It wasn't on Broadway. It was a regional contract. And sometimes you just luck out with a group of people who really connect and feel safe around each other. And like we just celebrated. I really mean it sounds so like corny, but like we celebrate each other every day, like our wins, our losses. If someone is going through a hard time, we all are like, OK, let's get together for this person, this person, you know, like and we even have like in between shows like movie, movie breaks.

[32:04] Teale Dvornik: Matinees.

[32:05] Gianna Yanelli: Because movie matinees. Sure. I love that. Actually, I'll tell them that. Because in Kelsey's room, Kelsey and Sierra now share on the first one and a half floor. It's hard to explain this like big dressing room. And so they have a huge TV in there and they've decorated it. So like there's a couch and pillows and everything. We go in there to hang out during two show days and like watch TV.

[32:29] Teale Dvornik: How cute.

[32:30] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. Like we're obsessed with each other. Yeah. Everybody is always like, so do you hate each other yet? I'm like, first of all, not this. Second of all, no. Like, thank you for pitting queens against each other.

[32:40] Teale Dvornik: Come on, like.

[32:41] Gianna Yanelli: It's literally what the show is about.

[32:43] Teale Dvornik: I know. So it's great. It really I'm going to be kind of sad when we don't have an excuse to see each other every day.

[32:50] Gianna Yanelli: That's so beautiful. So let's talk real fast about your character.

[32:54] Teale Dvornik: Yeah.

[32:54] Gianna Yanelli: Anne Boleyn, who's honestly one in terms of name recognition, maybe the most famous of the queens, and they definitely refer to that in the show, the one you've been waiting for. So what kind of research do you receive about these ladies when you enter the show?

[33:10] Teale Dvornik: So like a month before the process, they give us a list of things that they'd like us to watch. It's not required, but for research purposes, there was this BBC documentary that really the reason they liked us to watch this is because it narrated every each queen. But the style in which they did it was very much in the style of the show. So that was one of the ways that we learned about the queens. There are other videos as well. But then when we come into rehearsal, we actually have designated one on ones where we chat with the director and the assistant director sort of about, yeah, about our queen and like some of the misconceptions like Anne Boleyn, especially. And I had no idea. You know, everybody views her as like the slut.

But like, I didn't know that those that's actually not true. So basically, what happened is, first of all, he courted her for seven years while he was married. And she resisted. She said, so she's has morale, right? One thing they tell her that everybody says that she doesn't have. She basically because of her created a new religion. The Reformation happens because.

[34:21] Gianna Yanelli: Correct.

[34:22] Teale Dvornik: Of this one woman. They get married. He then has like an accident, like a horse, some accident where he falls off a horse or jousting accident, falls on a horse.

[34:34] Gianna Yanelli: Henry.

[34:35] Teale Dvornik: His brain chemistry, they researchers have shown and they like have gone back in his brain changed.

[34:43] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, shoot.

[34:44] Teale Dvornik: So he didn't like Anne Boleyn anymore. And that's why he was.

[34:48] Gianna Yanelli: Yes.

[34:48] Teale Dvornik: All the things that he loved about her, he now hated.

[34:52] Gianna Yanelli: Well, that also kind of sounds like marriage, but.

[34:54] Teale Dvornik: Of course, like I'm also like, yeah, maybe just because like he got annoyed by it, like it wasn't cute anymore to him. But for real, there's a difference between he got a divorce once. He could have got a divorce twice, right? He didn't need to execute. He didn't need to do any of this. So he ended up because there's something about the kings where they want their wife to flirt with other people. It's like actually a sign of respect. And so she, in order to get him back, started flirting with all these men, which is why all these rumors spread. And he had his eye on Jane Seymour. And so in order to get rid of her, he was like, all right, well, I'm going to execute you because you're sleeping around. That's one of the things that the show never talks about is how he was already on to the next one. And not just with Aragon, like consistently, it seemed like he had already moved on before the last one had even been taken care of.

[35:52] Gianna Yanelli: Every single one.

[35:53] Teale Dvornik: Every single one. When he was with Jane Seymour, well, she died. And they say that she's the only one that he's ever loved. But like, she died.

[36:02] Gianna Yanelli: Yes.

[36:03] Teale Dvornik: But she died. And I don't actually think that would be true if she stayed alive. And he, by the time Jane Seymour died, he was getting really, really old. And actually, it is said, Anne of Cleves was so beautiful. But because he was so old, he couldn't get it up and therefore blamed it on the fact that he wasn't attracted to her.

[36:28] Gianna Yanelli: Yes.

[36:29] Teale Dvornik: There's so much. It's crazy. It's so gag worthy. So yeah, we did a lot of research on these women. Anyway, my third and final thing about Anne Boleyn is that her daughter is Queen Elizabeth.

[36:40] Gianna Yanelli: Queen Elizabeth the First.

[36:42] Teale Dvornik: She gave birth to Elizabeth. It's so iconic. So she's a freaking icon. And I love that every night, even though it's like a pop concert, and it's fun and whatever, I get to reclaim that story for her and all of us have before. And like, we kind of get to have like this, f*** you to Henry now. I mean, I know they're, you know, not here. But it feels a little bit pretty.

[37:04] Gianna Yanelli: It feels empowering.

[37:05] Teale Dvornik: It feels empowering, especially to the show right now. Can you say more about that?

[37:10] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, I mean, obviously, with everything going on in our country, um, it feels really great to give a big f*** you to a being who has kind of doing whatever he wants.

[37:24] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, especially to women and getting away with it. And every night it does feel like it's a big f*** you to who Mr. Piggy himself.

[37:35] Gianna Yanelli: Mr. Piggy himself.

[37:37] Teale Dvornik: Yeah.

[37:38] Gianna Yanelli: Okay.

[37:42] Teale Dvornik: That's fantastic. First of all, thank you for sharing that. One question I have about Bolin is that she wasn't popular. Like she was known for being a little arrogant or like, and I would like to think that that's where like the Avril Lavigne of it all comes in.

[37:58] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, so her speaking her mind a lot. That's why I didn't like her.

[38:01] Teale Dvornik: First of all, there are a couple things. The biggest thing is that they loved Catherine of Aragon so much as a queen that they were screwed no matter what.

[38:12] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah.

[38:13] Teale Dvornik: So they were pretty, pretty angry that this person, you know, even though it was Henry, came in and took place of their favorite queen. I mean, she had reigned for 24 years.

[38:24] Gianna Yanelli: Wow.

[38:25] Teale Dvornik: And they hated it. It didn't matter what she did. She was actually so brilliant, so smart, fluent in French. I remember in the program, because like you have like the little cheat sheet in the playbill, and it says, did you know because she was fluent and would have acted as a translator during the visit of Emperor Charles V to court in 1520.

[38:45] Gianna Yanelli: She was the interpreter.

[38:47] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. How cool is that? She's unreal. And she brought because she studied in France. She brought the art of seduction to that's why he was like courting her for so long. So that's why people also were like, well, she's a slut. Because why? No, she's French. She's a witch.

[39:07] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, exactly.

[39:08] Teale Dvornik: How interesting. There's this quote that David Bowie gave once about Americans that were only able.

[39:16] Gianna Yanelli: Wait, sorry, real quick.

[39:17] Teale Dvornik: Stop it.

[39:18] Gianna Yanelli: The king himself.

[39:19] Teale Dvornik: The king on the ball.

[39:20] Gianna Yanelli: That's wild.

[39:22] Teale Dvornik: Okay, it's 1212. The angels are here. But we said that kind of Americans can only remember three things about someone. And so don't give them any more because they can't really comprehend it. Like we lack nuances. I think the serve that he was trying to give us in a very gentle way, right? And I feel like in history in general, that is incredibly applicable. And it's even worse for women. Like we can maybe only remember one thing and it's virgin or whore. You know, so it's really fun to see this show kind of dismantle that in a very self aware way because like, yeah, these queens know they're in 2025.

[40:04] Gianna Yanelli: So, yeah, it's why we're allowed to show our tattoos.

[40:14] Teale Dvornik: Do you have any favorite moments in the show specifically that you enjoy?

[40:18] Gianna Yanelli: First of all, my song.

[40:22] Teale Dvornik: I think the audience would agree.

[40:23] Gianna Yanelli: Thank you. I do. I have a lot of favorite moments. One in particular, though, that I love the most is when we are about to sing Six.

[40:32] Teale Dvornik: Mm hmm.

[40:33] Gianna Yanelli: And we come together and we all sing acapella for five more minutes. I don't know. Maybe it's because of the group of girls that I'm with. And because we're all all of us are experiencing this dream together. We've all been in the process of getting this show for forever. So I think that's why our group is so special, too. But in that moment, we all look at each other with sincerity. And it is so special to me. I have goosebumps right now thinking about it. That's one of my favorite moments in the show. And another favorite moment is in Six when the lights are shown on the audience by the third chorus and we can see everybody.

[41:18] Gianna Yanelli: And see their reactions. And 90% of the time, it's good. Sometimes you'll get a matinee where people are tired. But most of the time, what is the most special to me is seeing the kids and their faces. Like it really is like, okay, this is why I'm here. So I'd say those are like two of my most favorite moments. I think a lot of my comedic moments are my favorite. Well, because you get to be such a force.

[41:50] Gianna Yanelli: I really do have if we're gonna call a princess track, because I don't think any of the tracks are princess tracks. To be honest, I haven't. You really you think Bolin has the princess track?

[41:59] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, because I don't sing that much. Like in my song. I'm like talking.

[42:06] Gianna Yanelli: Oh my god, what happened? In my song, I'm talking. Oh, can I go on today? I in my song, I'm talking and I don't sing until the end. And sorry to all the like, previous queens, but like, I am not riffing at the end. I can't I can't give you that. So that's why I say I have the princess track. And I I'm the only one who doesn't have a monologue work. And I get all the glory.

[42:28] Teale Dvornik: And you get all the laughs.

[42:30] Gianna Yanelli: I'm like, people are laughing at me. The kids don't want to see me at the stage door because it's because it's Amberlynn in her costume. Yeah, you know, come on. I have a very good track.

[42:38] Teale Dvornik: Good for you. This is fantastic. Thank you so much. Jennifer is spending a little time with me. I know you have a show tonight. So thank you for doing this. Remind us how we follow you and keep up to date with you. Because if you guys are making cute TikToks, we definitely want to see.

[42:54] Gianna Yanelli: I know and I mean, I need to be better on TikTok. I have a TikTok. It's Gianna Yanelli. That's it. And that is also my Instagram, which I'm more active on because I'm a millennial. And TikTok gives me anxiety. But I try.

[43:07] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, I try really hard for the kids for the youths. Sometimes you all you can do is post and then get out of that app as quickly as I have to. I have to.

[43:19] Teale Dvornik: I get it. Jenna, thank you so much. You're wonderful. And tell all the queens hi for us.

[43:25] Gianna Yanelli: I will. Bye.

[43:27] Teale Dvornik: Anything you want to say about Anne Boleyn? Because she is kind of the most famous, right?

[43:36] Gianna Yanelli: She was always my favorite for that reason. I think just her story was, I don't know, so spooky and dramatic. And yeah, she's definitely like the most known queen. And I've stood where she was executed in the Tower of London. I've seen like the chopping block. And it's so dramatic. They put her in a boat that went down the River Thames, just in case anybody doesn't know the Tower of London. It's right by Tower Bridge, which a lot of people think is London Bridge. It's not.

[44:03] Teale Dvornik: And yeah, so she's cruising down the river and she comes in through like, you know, this medieval entrance into the Tower of London. And they parade her like through this area and then up to this chopping block.

[44:19] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, my gosh. The drama.

[44:21] Teale Dvornik: Very dramatic. Very dramatic.

[44:23] Teale Dvornik: Which once again, then makes me obsessed that the references they picked for that character in Six are like Avril Lavigne, you know, just kind of some punk rock chick with pop sensibilities who's like, blah, you know?

[44:39] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. What do I care?

[44:40] Teale Dvornik: So true. And I mean, that ties into who she was as a person.

[44:45] Teale Dvornik: All right. So unfortunately, Anne Boleyn is beheaded. Eleven days after Boleyn's execution, he was already on to number three. Jane Seymour, who you have mentioned earlier, the only one he truly loved. Rude.

[45:00] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah.

[45:01] Teale Dvornik: So once again, Anne Boleyn's still alive, but he's planning on annulling the marriage. So he turns to Jane and she's like, can we wait until they mop up her blood, please?

[45:11] Gianna Yanelli: Right.

[45:11] Teale Dvornik: Like, this is ridiculous.

[45:13] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. And like so many men, I think he wanted what he couldn't have.

[45:18] Teale Dvornik: Look, you never said a truer word, Teal.

[45:23] Gianna Yanelli: I mean, I'm in the dating game.

[45:28] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. Godspeed. It was a good match if for no other reason than she was the least educated out of most of the wives. She didn't-

[45:37] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, really?

[45:38] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. She didn't read or write very well. She was much better at needlework and household management. So she was much more of like maybe a trad wife, if you want to talk about it in those terms. She was able to give Henry the heir that he was looking for that his first two wives were unable to give him. His name was Edward. But unfortunately, Jane Seymour in like a postpartum complication has this huge hemorrhage that takes her life and she dies not long after giving birth to Edward. Thoughts on Jane because she has the song in the show.

[46:18] Gianna Yanelli: She has the song.

[46:19] Teale Dvornik: Yeah.

[46:20] Gianna Yanelli: I just think it's really sad. She sounds lovely.

[46:24] Teale Dvornik: She sounds like a great lady.

[46:26] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. And not to jump ahead, but it's just so wild how one little thing can set off this chain reaction, a lot like the line in Hamilton. Just one thing. If this son hadn't have died, then we wouldn't have Elizabeth I. If Henry's brother hadn't died, he wouldn't have been king.

[46:49] Teale Dvornik: You're right.

[46:49] Gianna Yanelli: Just wild.

[46:50] Teale Dvornik: I still come back to the whole Elizabeth I thing. I'm like, you're telling me Elizabeth I was related to Avril Lavigne? You know what I mean?

[47:01] Gianna Yanelli: You're telling me-

[47:02] Teale Dvornik: You're telling me that this is fact? No, but I hope you know what I mean.

[47:07] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah.

[47:08] Teale Dvornik: The way that Jane is portrayed in the show, she's got, you know, the dad jokes. They tease her for not being a very good dancer. But she also has a different outlook on Henry because she actually loved him. And in her monologue before Heart of Stone, she says he was very kind to me. And yes, he raged. And because Aragon and Bolin were badass monarchs, they pushed right back, but that wasn't me. That's not how I rolled. I instead loved him.

[47:46] Gianna Yanelli: And then she sings Heart of Stone, which is an interesting way to describe that position. Because she's not an abused wife. She's someone who believes that her love is strong enough to withstand whatever you've got.

[48:05] Teale Dvornik: No, I think that's so good. I have no notes. I love what you said. I back it all up.

[48:12] Gianna Yanelli: If you listen to the song, you get a lot of Adele, you get a lot of Sia.

[48:17] Teale Dvornik: And those were the two pop divas who were the inspiration for Heart of Stone.

[48:23] Gianna Yanelli: I was overseeing auditions last year for a production, and this little boy came in. He's like maybe 10, 11. And for his song, he sang Heart of Stone for his audition, which on so many levels just made me tear up. Because number one, the fact that this little kid was like, I want to go in and audition for a musical, and I'm going to sing Heart of Stone. It was the purest, sweetest thing. And I was like, thank you. Great job. And then he left the room. And I was like, you guys, I can't handle.

[48:59] Teale Dvornik: Oh, I would have been a mess.

[49:03] Gianna Yanelli: Just the sweetest little generation coming up.

[49:03] Teale Dvornik: Yeah.

[49:09] Gianna Yanelli: Okay, so after Jane Seymour passes away, here comes Anna of Cleves, which is-

[49:11] Teale Dvornik: She got the best deal.

[49:11] Gianna Yanelli: Easily. Easily! Her story is kind of iconic. It's also in the show the most story-driven section of the musical, because the story is really important to understand the context of what happens to her. So basically, she is a princess from Germany, and she has her portrait painted by the House of Holbein, or Holbein in the musical there, called the House of Holbein, because it's Eurovision, Europop kind of world.

[49:46] Teale Dvornik: What I didn't realize, further historical context, the person who was painting the portrait wasn't allowed to actually see the face of Anna of Cleves or her sister, because it was a modesty thing. The brother of them was like, no, no, you can't see their faces. So, they wore veils while their portraits were being painted. The portrait's painted. King Henry VIII sees the portrait. He's like, that's my new queen. Anna shows up, and in the most amazing sort of catfish turn of events, he's like, you don't look like your picture. How dare you? And sends her away. Now, he doesn't murder her, thank goodness. But she had a good deal, because it's also written that Henry treated her like a sister. She got to live in peace, away from court. In the song, it says, when she got bored, she would go and visit.

[50:43] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, she got her own house.

[50:43] Teale Dvornik: She got her own house. She got plenty of money. She died by cancer, like a normal person, as opposed to getting her head chopped off. So, no complaints.

[50:57] Gianna Yanelli: No complaints from Anna of Cleves. I love, in the show, that she's portrayed as this kind of R&B hip-hop boss, modeled after, say, Rihanna or Nicki Minaj.

[51:05] Teale Dvornik: So fun. So, so fun. I love Get Down.

[51:10] Gianna Yanelli: So fun. And I love that, even though she was rejected, it's a really fun, empowering song. So, someone doesn't, I don't know, like a little girl, she doesn't need to know the full context, because it could have been kind of a sad bummer song, like someone's rejected and then sent away. But yeah, it's really badass.

[51:30] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, flip that narrative. After Anna gets sent away, he then turns his sights on the youngest wife he ever had, Kay Howard. Once again, history has always said that she was the sluttiest of the wives, if we're just being honest.

[51:48] Gianna Yanelli: I can't believe that that is all that was going on, and neither can the musical.

[51:55] Teale Dvornik: I agree with you. There had to have been more there. But she was used by her dad, right? It was a social climbing situation.

[52:03] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, no, he wanted the best, I say in quotations, for her. And so, she kept getting kind of pimped out and put into different places until she finally landed herself in court. And by that, I mean like a good thing, not like she's on trial, but she was working at the court.

[52:21] Teale Dvornik: And I think it's not that he wanted the best for her, he wanted the best for himself.

[52:25] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, fine. Yeah, that's a great point. Thank you, Till. That's a good clarification.

[52:30] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, and he got it, but at what cost?

[52:33] Gianna Yanelli: Absolutely. I just feel like history, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that women had no power, and couldn't vote, and couldn't do X, Y, and Z. And also, they are completely in control of seducing men and forcing them to do things that they didn't want to do. You know what I mean?

[52:55] Teale Dvornik: Yeah, it's tricky.

[52:58] Teale Dvornik: It's a tricky business.

[53:01] Gianna Yanelli: It's a tricky business.

[53:04] Teale Dvornik: That's why I loved the Sofia Coppola, Marie Antoinette, because even though it wasn't historically accurate as far as all the pastels, and the aesthetic of it all, and she took a lot of liberties, I liked how it showed all the affairs and people partying, because that's what they were doing. When they were in court, everyone's partying and having sex with each other.

[53:28] Gianna Yanelli: Interesting.

[53:29] Teale Dvornik: So it wasn't just like, you know, Catherine Howard's the only one having these affairs. It was kind of everyone.

[53:36] Gianna Yanelli: When Catherine Howard gets married, he's 49. She's probably 16 to 18. The fact that we don't know that even her actual age, you're like, so we were to know her character, but we don't even know how old she was? You guys, history is faulty.

[53:53] Teale Dvornik: History is faulty. Also, for anyone who's listening and doesn't know, the life expectancy was not very high. So 49 is old.

[54:02] Gianna Yanelli: Great point. He's an old man at 49. It's an old 49.

[54:06] Teale Dvornik: Also, at this point, he's no longer young and hot. This great sportsman, he was still wearing armor and kind of riding horses, but he had this gash in his leg, and his legs were infected.

[54:19] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, his body was bleak.

[54:21] Teale Dvornik: And he ballooned up really, really big, right?

[54:24] Gianna Yanelli: Really big.

[54:25] Teale Dvornik: Poor guy.

[54:27] Gianna Yanelli: Now, Catherine Howard in the show is, I'm not going to lie, she's my favorite.

[54:33] Teale Dvornik: She's so fun.

[54:35] Gianna Yanelli: Howard is Ariana Grande meets Britney Spears. She has the long pink ponytail, which is iconic. She has a song that is five choruses long. It's a marathon. And any queen who can get through it has all of my respect. It's called All You Want to Do, and it goes through all of these different men in her life, starting out with her music teacher.

[55:03] Teale Dvornik: Nothing that gets the audience to clap and you feel the discomfort in the theater every time that you get to the end of that song. Like I guess I'm going to applaud this but it feels incredibly tragic.

[56:33] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, it really does and part of the genius behind that song is that like a little girl can sing it and love it and not understand what it's actually about.

[56:56] Teale Dvornik: Fair enough. Yeah, I love this. This musical is great for all ages and it hits you in a different way no matter what age you are. You know, in middle school and high school like it can mean something to you which is so different than the way an adult would view it.

[57:12] Gianna Yanelli: Absolutely.

[57:13] Teale Dvornik: Another thing with, wait, the ending of the Katherine Howard song I think is really cool is because like her head was chopped off. It's like boom, you know.

[57:21] Gianna Yanelli: Great, great point.

[57:22] Teale Dvornik: It's like this very short life that just like ends. Yeah, there wasn't a flourish at the end.

[57:29] Gianna Yanelli: How old was she when she was beheaded? 1542, so she was 22. That's crazy. That's a short life.

[57:38] Teale Dvornik: If there is like a quote-unquote plot to Six, it's that in almost a cat's-like way each queen gets their opportunity to plead their case to go to the Heaviside Lair. Like everybody comes forward and says, I had it the worst. If we're talking about what it was like to be married to Henry VIII, mine was the worst and if I can get the audience to vote for me then I get to be the main queen, right, out of all of the six. That's how the entire concert that we've been attending thus far has been structured.

[58:13] Gianna Yanelli: And then here comes final queen number six, Katherine Parr, and all of the queens on stage throw it to her and she stops the show. And not because of an amazing song, she literally stops the show and says, no, no, no, no, no. Can we stop? I'm done. I'm tired of comparing our traumas to try and gain the sympathy of this audience. Can we be done?

[58:39] Teale Dvornik: The queens are upset with her because they say, no, this is what we agreed we would do. We're all here to plead our case. You have to tell your story and she says, okay, I will, but I'm going to do it my way. So then she begins the story and we learn about Katherine Parr, who is fascinating.

[59:00] Gianna Yanelli: She was a really good wife.

[59:02] Teale Dvornik: Katherine Parr had four marriages before Henry. She says even in the show, she's like, Henry and I had that in common. We both got married quite a bit. She didn't kill her husband, but they did die. She was widowed many, many times. And after her husband, right before Henry, she starts connecting with this guy named Thomas and they have this great connection. And according to history, they were going to essentially get together, but then Henry VIII scoops her up and you don't say no to King Henry VIII. So she goes with Henry VIII and it seems like for the most part, she was great in her role.

[59:48] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah. No, she was really, really great in her role. She was with him to the end of his life and she even helped raise Elizabeth.

[59:55] Teale Dvornik: But she also has a happy ending because after Henry's death, she does marry Thomas.

[1:00:02] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah, she shouldn't have done that though. Because then she died in childbirth. I'm like, I wanted her to make it to the finish line. Who didn't?

[1:00:13] Teale Dvornik: If you weren't beheaded, then pregnancy was going to take you out. I guess that's just what we learned from history, Gianna.

[1:00:19] Gianna Yanelli: What a bleak time. Yeah.

[1:00:21] Teale Dvornik: It was rough. No wonder they had so many ruffles. Because...

[1:00:26] Gianna Yanelli: I'm like, no deodorant, leeches.

[1:00:31] Teale Dvornik: Oh my gosh.

[1:00:32] Gianna Yanelli: I know, the leeches. But yeah, poor Catherine Parr.

[1:00:36] Teale Dvornik: The way that she presents her song is with a Neo Soul R&B presentation. Emily Sade is the one that they talk about, which I don't think a lot of people in the States know Emily Sade, but she's fab. The cool thing about Parr in the show is that she uses her song as an opportunity to unite the Queens. And then at the end of her song, she says, I'm one of six. And without Henry, we all disappear. The only reason that people know who we are is because we all married the same man. And that brings that energy crashing down to the ground.

[1:01:20] Gianna Yanelli: And once again, the show almost comes to a standstill as they figure out what they do next. Because this isn't how the evening was supposed to proceed.

[1:01:30] Teale Dvornik: They were supposed to do a fun competition. They weren't supposed to have this existential breakdown of whether or not their lives even mean anything without this man who created so much drama.

[1:01:40] Gianna Yanelli: It's so relatable. It sounds like any wine night, truly.

[1:01:47] Teale Dvornik: Everyone's crying by the end.

[1:01:50] Gianna Yanelli: With your girls, this one just happens to be in front of an audience and everyone's wearing sequins. Yeah. Now, the twist of the show, the great M. Night twist of Six is that they say, like, oh, my gosh, it would have been so great if we had realized this earlier, that maybe we need to present our stories in a new way, not just rehashing the old trauma and the old drama over and over again. And they say, yeah, that would have been great because maybe we could have done a new song, like a fun song that unites us all together.

[1:02:24] Teale Dvornik: And then they give a wink to the audience because, as it turns out, that's what this whole evening has been about all along. The decoy was the competition, but now this is the real moment and it's the moment to reclaim their power as humans, as women, and to write a different story.

[1:02:46] Gianna Yanelli: So they remix it. Hello. So smart. Remix their stories and give new possibilities about what their lives could have meant long ago. It's so smart. It makes me very happy.

[1:02:59] Teale Dvornik: What a special moment, truly, in Broadway history.

[1:03:03] Gianna Yanelli: Agreed, agreed, agreed.

[1:03:04] Teale Dvornik: I'm, like, getting emotional, like, thinking about the song Six, thinking about just that moment in time, in 2020 and then 2021, and thinking about all the little girls before Six had even come to Broadway. There was BroadwayCon of 2020 and the girls of the national tour, they, like, came and, like, performed a song for the first time. Oh, I was losing it. I was in the front row. It was so fun. And, yeah, just seeing little girls in these costumes that they've made themselves, that's one of my favorite parts of the show.

[1:03:35] Gianna Yanelli: Can you talk a little bit about the fashion from your point of view as, like, fashion designer, costumer major? They're one of, like, the most iconic parts of the show. What do you think of these costumes, and what do you like about them?

[1:03:48] Teale Dvornik: I love that Aragon's looks like armor to me. It's just really strong. Yeah.

[1:03:55] Gianna Yanelli: Warrior.

[1:03:55] Teale Dvornik: And she feels like the queen bee. And Anne of Cleves, it's just, it's so perfect for her. It's perfect, you know, historically, but then, like, the sassy get down of it all. And I think Catherine Parr is so interesting. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the one I see the least amount of cosplayers do, because I think it's more simple and it's not as exciting as wearing, like, a fun little circle skirt, which doesn't, you know, a costume that's a little bit forgotten tie very much into her story.

[1:04:30] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, she is?

[1:04:32] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. And, like, she was so strong. She's wearing pants. Like, she was a badass, but she's, yeah, she's the one no one really remembers. She's not as flashy as the others.

[1:04:41] Gianna Yanelli: That's a great point. They each also have their own colors. And to your point, giving Catherine Parr blue is a little more subdued. It's not as loud as opposed to Howard standing right next to her in bright pink.

[1:04:55] Teale Dvornik: Right. But blue feels more royal.

[1:04:59] Gianna Yanelli: Great point.

[1:04:59] Teale Dvornik: Yeah. It's interesting that nobody got purple. Like, purple is a huge color in the show, but none of the queens got assigned purple because it feels like the royal color.

[1:05:09] Gianna Yanelli: Yeah.

[1:05:10] Teale Dvornik: And, like, if someone was purple, they would have been the queen, you know?

[1:05:14] Gianna Yanelli: Right. Oh, I was just thinking that. I'm like, it's so intentional, that choice.

[1:05:20] Teale Dvornik: Was there anything from your history tour that you want to add about the Lenehorn Theater where Six is currently playing?

[1:05:28] Gianna Yanelli: Yes. I have such a fun little fact. Teale probably doesn't even know about this. There's an engineer for the Nederlander organization that owns the Lenehorn Theater. And whenever he has to do, like, engineering work inside any of the walls in the theater, he always takes a playbill from that current production, puts it in a Ziploc bag, and hides it within the wall as a time capsule.

[1:05:52] Teale Dvornik: So her name is probably hidden somewhere inside that theater space.

[1:05:57] Gianna Yanelli: That's so cool. So how often does he go?

[1:06:01] Teale Dvornik: Whenever he has to do work inside.

[1:06:03] Gianna Yanelli: Oh, my gosh. How cute. That's incredible. And does that happen at other theaters, too? Or is it more just the Lenehorn thing?

[1:06:12] Teale Dvornik: He does it in all the Nederlander theaters.

[1:06:14] Gianna Yanelli: All the Nederlanders. Oh, my gosh.

[1:06:16] Teale Dvornik: I met him one day outside of the Nederlander Theater on 41st Street. He's this big man who's smoking a big cigar. I was like, oh, he's definitely a Broadway person. So I went up to him. I was like, hi, I'm Teal. Do you have any fun stories?

[1:06:32] Gianna Yanelli: That's amazing. You are a joy to talk with, and I'm sure that you have definitely flexed those muscles over the years in terms of collecting all of your stories.

[1:06:40] Teale Dvornik: Thank you for being here and talking with me today. It's been so fun.

[1:06:44] Gianna Yanelli: You are such a delight to talk to. Thank you for having me.

[1:06:49] Teale Dvornik: As always, if you have recommendations for shows that you'd like us to cover on A Musical Theatre Podcast, please email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. We are on social media, Instagram, TikTok, giving you great content that we want you to share so the episodes can reach as far and wide as they can. We would also love you to join us on Patreon! That's patreon.com slash amusicalpodcast, where you can receive bonus episodes, polls, contests, trivia games. We have so much coming up for 2026. I'd love to see you there. It's only a few dollars a month, and it's a great way to keep the show going on the main feed.

[1:07:27] Gianna Yanelli: If you're looking to give back, we have our TeePublic store with great designs, and the money we receive from those designs goes to Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. More than anything, I'm so grateful you're here and love creating these episodes with great guests like Teal. Teal, thank you for talking to me. How do we follow you? How do we participate in all of the cool stuff you've got going on? We want to hear about it.

[1:07:51] Teale Dvornik: You can find me at The Backstage Blonde on Instagram and TikTok, and then through the link in my bio is where you can find my book and also how to take a walking tour with me.

[1:08:00] Gianna Yanelli: Fantastic. Do you do that all year round?

[1:08:03] Teale Dvornik: All year round, even in the cold of winter. I was giving a really fun tour the other day, and yeah, you can find me at thebackstageblonde.co.

[1:08:12] Gianna Yanelli: Amazing. Teal, thank you for being here. Thank you to everyone for listening. Thank you to these queens, and all the queens who have, are currently, and will bring them to life. And remember, Divorced, Beheaded, Died. Divorced, Beheaded.

[1:08:28] Teale Dvornik: Survived.

[1:08:29] Gianna Yanelli: We survived this, Teal. Congratulations.