This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Here's the thing, Justin, did you realize that THE BOY FROM OZ wasn't the first time that Peter Allen was on Broadway? I mean, granted, it's Hugh Jackman as Peter Allen, but many people don't realize that the actual individual Peter Allen was on Broadway a couple of times, most infamously in the late 80s. Are you aware of this?

[0:25] Justin Clarke: I only recently became aware of this. I did not know about it beforehand, but once I did learn about the show that he made on Broadway, I was like, that is very... it just didn't fit with the whole character of the story.

[0:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's unusually uncharacteristic Peter Allen. He was always so himself. And then in the late 80s, he writes this huge Broadway show called Legs Diamond. And it's considered one of the more legendary flops. Now, granted, we were struggling in musical theater in the late 80s in America, but we were struggling so bad that we thought it would be a good idea to open a show cold, like they hadn't had any out of town tryouts, in which Peter Allen was playing a gangster in like depression era times in the US, trying to break into show business, which is crazy because at this point, he was so well known as being an Aussie and gay. And so now he's playing this like ladies man gangster from the United States who just wants to tap dance. And everyone was like, not buying it.

[1:38] Justin Clarke: No, hearing you say it, something about that doesn't add up.

[1:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But here's the thing. It's not all bad. Like the show isn't all bad, but it closes after only 60 performances. He still had a great sense of humor about it. I think on closing night, he said something like, thank you for letting me do this because I don't think I'm going to be doing it at the Tony Awards. So he knew it wasn't flying. But then what's an even kind of more beautiful ending to all of that is that one of the greatest songs from The Boy From Oz, My Name in Lights, is from Legs Diamond, as are the two Judy Garland numbers. So like, go figure, right? One of the biggest flops then ends up helping this show become one of the biggest hits.

[2:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff.

[2:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And today we're covering the musical The Boy From Oz with another boy from Oz. He happens to be the host of his own podcast called Theater Thoughts. Everyone, please welcome from Australia, Mr. Justin Clark.

[3:03] Justin Clarke: Hello. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[3:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How's summer on the other side of the world?

[3:10] Justin Clarke: It's very wet at the moment.

[3:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[3:14] Justin Clarke: Yeah.

[3:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is that unusual?

[3:16] Justin Clarke: Yeah.

[3:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, sure. Good old Armenia.

[3:19] Justin Clarke: Yeah, so it's not very hot at the moment, which is disappointing because I recently moved down near the coast. So I was expecting this beautiful summer where I could go to the beach. And I don't tan very much because I'm a ginger, so I just burn.

[3:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just gotta connect those freckles a little bit.

[3:36] Justin Clarke: Exactly.

[3:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But now you just got mud, is what you're telling me.

[3:40] Justin Clarke: Yeah, just very sandy and very wet. So yeah, it's not the best summer, but we're going through it.

[3:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Tell everybody why you started your podcast.

[3:50] Justin Clarke: So I run my own site, Theater Thoughts, and it's a site basically to promote theater in Sydney. And I'm trying to push it out to other states as well. And I go and review shows. So I started it mainly when I was living in the UK. I just basically wanted to review shows and just get my thoughts out there. And then it's become just so much more busy with theater kicking off in Sydney. So it became not just my thoughts, but trying to get everyone else on board and other people on board to share their thoughts as well. And then I became a little bit stagnant with everything, and I was like, how can I push this more than just a site? And seeing how podcasts are taken off all over the world, I was like, all right, I can give that a go.

I'll give it a go. I like something new. So I started my own podcast, and it's been a journey so far of ups and downs and trying to get things right and everything going, getting guests on. But everyone's really keen to come on and have a chat about themselves and their shows. So yeah, that's how it basically started, and it's going fun so far.

[4:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fantastic. I mean, you know how a pet peeve of actors is that when you tell people what you do, they go, oh, that sounds fun.

[5:04] Justin Clarke: Yes.

[5:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know what I mean?

[5:06] Justin Clarke: Yes.

[5:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's twofold for podcasting, because everyone thinks, oh, that's fun. You just sit around and talk. Oh, if that was only the part of podcasting.

[5:14] Justin Clarke: It's a whole process.

[5:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a whole thing, for sure. Well, that's amazing. Questions? Because I'm a little ignorant. I've never been to Australia. I haven't been to the UK yet, which seems really strange. That's like my mother motherland. That's my grandmother land.

[5:30] Justin Clarke: Yeah, exactly.

[5:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I had always heard that UK people look down on Australians. Is that true?

[5:37] Justin Clarke: Not that I ever saw. I found when I lived over there that they loved Australians.

[5:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, cool.

[5:44] Justin Clarke: If anything.

[5:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But as a fun little sideshow thing? Like, look at the Australian. See how cowboy-like they are? I sometimes feel that way about being an American, where it's like, ooh, I do country line dancing. I'm a novelty.

[6:04] Justin Clarke: I think it was for us, they find a lot of, they do look down on us. So like, for instance, we have a lot of our food. So we have like Vegemite and Tim Tams, which is, you know, Australians. We love them.

[6:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, of course.

[6:15] Justin Clarke: But you go over there and you talk about having Vegemite on your toast. And they go, oh, Vegemite? Don't you have Marmite? And then Tim Tams go, oh, we have Tim Tams. They're called penguins. They're so much better than Tim Tams. And you're like, oh, look, I don't know about that.

[6:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Are those cookies? Or like biscuits?

[6:31] Justin Clarke: Yeah, they're like biscuits. Kind of like, the middle is like two wafers in between chocolate, but then wrapped in this really rich chocolate.

[6:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That sounds delightful.

[6:43] Justin Clarke: It is so good. And then you do what's called the Tim Tam Slam, which is where you bite off one end, you dunk it in your tea, your coffee, and then you suck, like a straw, and it melts all the chocolate inside. So then all the chocolate becomes like this really chocolatey drink. But it melts very quickly. So you got to do it very quickly.

[7:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So you just got to get it down. That sounds fun.

[7:05] Justin Clarke: Yeah.

[7:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We have a thing where you stack as many Oreos as you can, as though it were a skyscraper. And then you just shove them in your mouth. That's how we do things here.

[7:17] Justin Clarke: Excellent.

[7:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, that's cool. I ask because today we get to learn a lot about Australia. And I'm so grateful you came on. The Boy From Oz, right? Have you seen it? Do you know about it?

[7:32] Justin Clarke: It was one of the first shows I think I saw.

[7:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[7:38] Justin Clarke: Yeah, it was back when Hugh Jackman did it in Australia. I can't remember if it was before he went to Broadway with it or after. I think from memory, it must have been before he went to Broadway and won the Tony.

[7:55] Justin Clarke: So my mum took me to see it because she knew that I liked musical theatre.

[8:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thanks, Mum.

[8:01] Justin Clarke: I know, it was the best. She used to take me to all the Disney on Ice shows that we had. So that's kind of where it started. And then she took me to see The Boy From Oz. It was mainly because she used to go with my grandma to go and see shows. And then she wanted me to kind of pick that up as well. So we went to see it. I didn't know anything about it. Obviously, I was really young. And the first thing you see from him is he descends from a piano from the roof of this massive stadium onto the stage. And you're like, okay, this is not just like a show. This is an experience. It was next level.

[8:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. I wasn't able to see it. But I have watched several bootlegs of said musical. Now, in past episodes, we have discussed star vehicles, especially during the golden age of musical theatre here in the States. There was a time period where star vehicles were the way to get people into the theatre. And the problem that came about with these star vehicles is that sometimes the writing wasn't that awesome, because it was depending solely on the star power of the performer to make it work. And also, producers didn't love it. Because if the star gets sick, or tired, or both, the audiences don't come because they're not really interested in seeing an understudy or someone else play a role that was meant for that person.

The star vehicle has kind of died out since that time, you know, since we went into Phantom of the Opera, Les Mis, Wicked Time, where it's just like plug somebody else into the track and keep this juggernaut going. However, I think the closest that we have ever come in modern musical theatre is Boy From Oz. This show was a success and is successful because of Hugh Jackman.

[10:01] Justin Clarke: 100%. I was actually reading an article when we were setting up this podcast, and the article was actually talking about that specifically. And it ended on saying something like, when this show goes on tour, what will become of it? Because obviously, Hugh Jackman can't go on tour, he's a very busy man. So, yeah, will the show have legs without?

[10:25] Justin Clarke: In Australia, it's come back without Hugh Jackman. There was an Australian performer called Todd McKinney who did it here. And it was still a success, everyone loved it. But again, it did rely on that star vehicle that Todd McKinney is a famous Australian performer. And I think without him in it, if it was just an unknown, it would have not played at one of the big theatres, it would have to start at a smaller theatre maybe and then work its way up. So, yeah, I do understand why producers would be very iffy about having a star vehicle in performances.

[11:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Here's a question for you. In the 80s, the US started really getting into what has now become an incredibly popular Australian export, movie stars.

[11:14] Justin Clarke: Yes, they did.

[11:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mel Gibson, Nicole Kidman, Naomi Watts, Hugh Jackman, Russell Crowe, The Hemsworths, Margot Robbie, Cate Blanchett, Toni Collette. It's insane how much talent has come from over there. Now, in the case of Peter Allen, whose life and career this musical encapsulates, how does he measure up? Do most people there know who he is?

[11:39] Justin Clarke: I would say a lot of people who was, let's say, like, they're the Gen Z era, if I said Peter Allen, they would probably go, who? When you're talking about what made Australian music industry famous and world-renowned, his name is cemented in there. But in terms of who would know him, I would argue that not a lot of younger people would, because we don't really hear his music. I can't remember the last time I heard a Peter Allen song, apart from listening to this musical.

[12:15] Justin Clarke: So, I think with Australian exports, if I were to pinpoint where it started, I would argue it started with Crocodile Dundee, basically Paul Hogan.

[12:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I didn't even put Paul Hogan, but absolutely, that's right in the 80s, right there.

[12:32] Justin Clarke: Oh, very much so. He started the image of Australian, who we were, and obviously it was very stereotypical, like wrestling crocodiles and spiders and snakes and all that stuff. And then, I think as our talent grew and grew, we did have Cate Blanchett, we have Hugh Jackman, and all these beautiful theatre people started becoming bigger and bigger as well.

[12:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, well, it's so fascinating to me to watch how art from Australia and New Zealand really just invade the entire world, right?

[13:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right at the top of the 80s, and Peter Allen is probably just before that big hit. He's like late 70s into the early 80s, right?

[13:14] Justin Clarke: Yeah.

[13:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So he is kind of ushering the door open for everybody to run through later on in the decade. When you talk about the last time that you've heard a Peter Allen song, I think in my life, if I hear one of his songs, it's usually done with a bit of camp and kind of winking at how overly emotional it is, like "Don't Cry Out Loud" or the theme from "Arthur," which actually won him an Academy Award. Those types of songs have become almost parodies of themselves in the way that they're used now, which makes it such an interesting catalogue of music to pull from for a musical, because it's asking the audience to take a different look at these songs and possibly take them more seriously than you would.

[14:09] Justin Clarke: Well, actually, in saying that, one of the songs that isn't included on the soundtrack from "Boy From Oz" anymore is "Tenterfield Saddler." It's kind of like a bonus track now on Spotify.

[14:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is, and I was reading up on it, and I was like, what do you mean it's not on the track? I clearly remember Hugh Jackman sitting there singing "Tenterfield Saddler." It was a beautiful song, and it's probably the most autobiographical song in "The Boy From Oz," because it's about his father who committed suicide. It's about Peter Allen. It's about his grandfather. It's a gorgeous song. It very much brings the whole show in on this one emotional point, and it's not included in the soundtrack, which I was like, that's really strange, and a very Australian song as well.

[14:59] Justin Clarke: What about "I Still Call Australia Home"? Is that a well-known song?

[15:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Apart from "I Go to Rio," that's probably up there with the best-known song from that show. It's plastered all over Qantas ads. We've had so many renditions of that song.

[15:19] Justin Clarke: That one actually, now that I say it, I should probably take back the last time I heard a Peter Allen song, because that is the biggest Peter Allen song, but it's just become synonymous with Australia itself. Yeah, it's a gorgeous song, and in the show itself, it's actually a showstopper, because I don't know how they did it on other tours, but when I saw it, he's singing up on stage with a massive chorus, and then at the big finale, they pull an Australian flag over the audience.

[15:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh!

[15:51] Justin Clarke: Yeah, because it was in this big stadium that isn't in Sydney anymore. It's been changed to apartments, which is sad.

[15:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Boo!

[15:56] Justin Clarke: Yeah, I know. I think it moved somewhere else. I think it's the Kudos Bank Arena now, and they pulled from the stage the Australian flag all the way over this lower floor audience.

[16:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, the patriotism, though!

[16:15] Justin Clarke: Yeah, very much patriotic, yeah. That's really sweet. I love that. So, has it reached the level of "My Country, 'Tis of Thee," or something over here? Those are the types of songs that get sung before the national anthem at the Super Bowl. They're songs that kind of everybody knows.

[16:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, literally, because Qantas picked it up and ran with it as their—

[16:39] Justin Clarke: What is Qantas? Sorry.

[16:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Qantas is, sorry, that's our main airline.

[16:45] Justin Clarke: Oh, okay. Oh, sure! Along with the kangaroo on the tail.

[16:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. Yeah, and that's our main airline. They picked it up as their theme, so I'd say it's a better anthem than our actual anthem, to be honest.

[16:57] Justin Clarke: Hey, we'll see. So, the cultural footprint already, just by talking to you this much, the cultural footprint of Peter Allen in your country is bigger than I knew.

[17:02] Justin Clarke: Yeah, it's funny. Actually, no, the more I talk about it, the more you actually kind of reflect. Oh, hang on a second. It's kind of like just secretly embedded in there.

[17:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, so, in terms of this musical itself, we can't really talk about the life of Peter Allen to introduce it, because that's literally what the show is about. We'll wait to get to that when we actually go through the show. Instead, we'll talk briefly about some of the people who made it happen. So, first up is this guy by the name of Stephen McLean, who was obsessed with showbiz and was a writer and journalist in Australia, and in particular, he was really interested in Peter Allen. He saw him perform, because Peter Allen, on top of being a writer, was this great showman in a time when cabaret singers were the thing. In America, we think of Tom Jones, Liberace even. You could find comparisons with him and Peter Allen.

This kind of Vegas-y lounge singer that was really, really popular at the time. He saw him do one of those shows and wanted to meet him. He interviewed him several times, followed him all over the world, and ultimately wrote a biography about him. He thought that the story was really interesting, so he always assumed that it would become a movie. Instead, what it ended up becoming was a stage musical with Peter Allen's music to help tell the story. That makes "The Boy From Oz" a jukebox musical.

[18:44] Justin Clarke: The writer of the script is a guy by the name of Nick Enright, a famous Australian screenwriter. He was nominated for an Oscar for "Lorenzo's Oil," which is a George Miller movie, another great film guy from Australia, Mad Max himself. The whole show premieres in 1998, but doesn't come to New York until 2003.

[19:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you have any guesses as to why that would be?

[19:07] Justin Clarke: The Australian musical isn't... I'd say in that time it wasn't a thing. We didn't have a lot of Australian musicals, and to be honest, we still don't have a great deal of blockbuster Australian musicals, which is upsetting because there was so much talent here. We do have musicals, like Australian musicals, but nothing to match this level, I'd say.

[19:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: In terms of me being introduced into the musical theatre world of Australia, the only person I knew of pre "The Boy From Oz" was Caroline O'Connor, because she's a diva. She's an amazing performer from Australia.

[19:45] Justin Clarke: It's so interesting that you said that the show needed legs. I dare say that those legs needed to be Hugh Jackman's very long legs.

[19:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, let's talk about Hugh Jackman, because this is a really interesting story. He grows up in Australia, right? His parents get divorced when he's very, very young. His mom moves back to England with his sisters, I think, and he stays with his dad and his brothers. He's a little bit girl crazy, and the only way for him to spend time with girls is to do drama. But then, what's so amazing is that on top of that, he finds a community and finds belonging. He graduates college. He does a couple of productions there, and it seems like he pretty immediately gets offered a role on "Neighbours," which that's a whole thing over there, right?

[20:39] Justin Clarke: Yeah. Literally, if you want to be a star, you need to go through "Neighbours" or "Home and Away," and it's been proven time and again. Kylie Minogue, Hugh Jackman, Chris Hemsworth. Who else?

[21:00] Justin Clarke: I'm pretty sure Margot Robbie. She was also on one of them.

[21:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And "Neighbours" is a soap opera, but a little bit lighter than American soap opera, do you think?

[21:06] Justin Clarke: Yeah. It's not like the level of "The Bold and the Beautiful." It's more like, it's more kind of laid-back Australia, suburban drama, but it's been going for years and years and years. So, it's kind of reached that level of they'd have to keep it fresh and do twists and turns. Oh, they're alive, but they're actually... I thought they were dead. But yeah, if you want to be a well-known star, you have to go through there.

[21:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You have to start on "Neighbours." So, he gets offered a role, of course, because he's 6'3" and gorgeous and can act. He actually turns it down, though, so he can keep studying. And he goes to a performance academy and really falls in love with theatre. That leads to him being cast in the 1999 London production of "Oklahoma." And I can't tell you how obsessed I am with the fact that "Oklahoma" was responsible for launching Hugh Jackman's career. How cool is that? This old Rodgers and Hammerstein show gave us one of our biggest stars to date.

[22:12] Justin Clarke: I mean, he is incredible in that. They filmed it. He's absolutely perfect. Do you like that version?

[22:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's the Susan Stroman choreographed. Trevor Nunn directed it. London Royal Shakespeare Company.

[22:24] Justin Clarke: I haven't actually watched the full "Oklahoma" musical before, but I've seen the videos of him in it, and he is just... It's just him. He's a star. He's just born for the stage. He's got this charisma about him that you just can't help but love. And an incredible voice on top of it all. Incredible. So it's not surprising that it's made him big.

[22:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There's actually a story that he tells about being in "Oklahoma" and being cast as Wolverine at the same time.

[22:57] Justin Clarke: Well, that's what's so insane.

[22:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah. So he was rehearsing for "Oklahoma." I think he either started the rehearsals or was just about to go on. And he had the audition for Wolverine for the X-Men Marvel films, and he didn't know if he was going to get it. He was very rushed for time. So he went there, did the audition. He thought it was horrible. And then we all know what happened from there. He became Wolverine and became a star.

[23:23] Justin Clarke: So I can't help but wonder if one of the reasons why it took so long for "Boy From Oz" to come to New York is because Hugh Jackman was just so freaking busy from 1999 on.

[23:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, I don't have the number on me, but in 18 months, he made like six films. He was working like a maniac and also proving himself to be one of the most versatile actors that we have because he's doing sci-fi, you know, with Wolverine. He's doing romantic comedy with "Kate and Leopold." He's doing action with "Swordfish."

[24:03] Justin Clarke: Yeah, literally. And I remember one of the earliest roles he did in Australia was on an old TV show. I can't remember the name of it exactly, but it was where he met his wife, Deborah Lee Furness. But she was actually a bigger star than he was.

[24:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Come on, Deborah Lee!

[24:20] Justin Clarke: I know! She had this big name about her. It was Deborah Lee Furness and then newcomer Hugh Jackman. And they fell in love on set. And then, obviously, Hugh's just kind of surpassed the fame of it. But Deb still does a lot. She's become more of like a social activist, and she does a lot for adopting children and adoption services because that's what they did. They adopted their children. But he loves her so much.

[24:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean, she's been very open with the fact that they really struggled to conceive, and she had miscarriages and such. And they've been able to adopt. And, man, we gays love to say, Hugh Jackman's really gay, blah, blah, blah. These two people seem very much in love. It's almost nauseating.

[25:12] Justin Clarke: Yeah. I remember my friends were always like, we saw him in "Boy From Oz." That whole thing is like, that's a cover. I know for sure that's a cover.

[25:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's a long cover to commit to.

[25:29] Justin Clarke: That's a very long amount of years they've been together to kind of have this image.

[25:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And she seems to be a great confidant for him as well. He says that he rarely goes on an audition that he hasn't rehearsed with her first. Because you said, she's a director, she's an actor, she knows what she's talking about.

[25:46] Justin Clarke: Yeah, exactly.

[25:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When he does finally bring "Boy From Oz" to New York, he has cemented himself as a very hetero, hairy-chested heartthrob. And so to decide to do a musical and to play a flamboyant Australian entertainer that most

[27:40] Justin Clarke: A very queer energy and he can be as straight as he wants and have a wife and be completely happy and also have this amazing queer energy that completely sells the show. So like more power to you, Hugh Jackman. Yeah, you go for it, man. Great. So Hugh Jackman obviously wins the Tony Award for Best Actor. This leads to him also hosting the Tony Awards three times in a row and doing an incredible job. He wins an Emmy for one of them and any worries that this type of choice was going to dampen his career are quickly diminished because not only has his career continued but it's gotten even more interesting and varied with things like Les Mis and The Greatest Showman, which I think people also probably rolled their eyes at and thought wouldn't be successful and he proved them all wrong.

So that's kind of the history of The Boy From Oz. It doesn't necessarily get great reviews, to be honest. Everybody is undeniably impressed by Hugh Jackman but they're like the show's not that great but man oh man is this a star performance and it's enough for the show to run long enough to make money and recoup its investment and be a huge hit.

[29:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and I think after doing my research to kind of catch up on where Boy From Oz sits, that is probably the feel of it. It is like it's a good musical. It's entertaining but it does rely, it lives or dies on who you cast as Peter Allen. And I will say in Los Angeles a couple years ago there was a LGBTQ-focused theatre company that produced a production of The Boy From Oz in a very, very small space. LA is known for like intimate theatre so we're talking like 99 seats, postage stamp size stage and it was really, really well received.

[29:36] Justin Clarke: Yeah, and I think that when this show gets blown up too much, that's when it may start to feel like a Vegas cabaret act, which is fine to be honest because that's where Peter Allen comes from. I don't have a problem with that but if you wanted to maybe be considered a more legit piece of musical theatre, maybe take it down to its bare bones and see what you can find. And I think that comes down to, I guess, who you want your audience to be and down to Nick Handwright and George Miller with their writing of it. If you want that big Vegas-style performance, go for it. You've got to go all out to get it but at its bare bones you can do that real intimate performance of it but I think to get that right you need someone who is able to like sit down and play the piano and brings that heart and soul and realism into the story.

[30:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well speaking of heart and soul, let's go through the heart and soul of the show. Yeah, like you mentioned, it begins with Peter Allen himself right recalling his life story and he sings the song called The Lives of Me which is really beautiful. After he kind of introduces us to the fact that hey I'm going to be literally narrating my own story, we go back to his childhood which you mentioned is Tenderfield, right?

[30:58] Justin Clarke: Yeah. What is that place like? That's like big-time country area. Yeah, you have your big cities obviously like Sydney, down where I live, Wollongong which is like a coastal city and then if you go out further west you're heading further and further into the outback and you become smaller and smaller and smaller into such these rural towns that have such a mix of cultures, large indigenous populations and like farmers and to think about Peter Allen in a rural town is so juxtaposition like the juxtaposition of it is just insane so that it makes sense that he's like I don't belong here, I need to get out.

[31:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To be clear, this is very much my childhood. I mean I wasn't performing in local bars because I'm from Utah, we don't believe in alcohol but you know Peter is like tap dancing in the local bars for money and like my grandpa would take me on cattle drives and have me dance for like the people who were buying the cattle and I would shamelessly, you know, do it no problem. So when I see it happen in this musical, my heart is just full for this little boy who on Broadway, by the way, is a freak of nature. This kid like pulls off all the stops, he's doing backflips, he's tapping his face off, he's jumping off of pianos, it's an incredible performance. He sings when I get my name in lights, it's amazing.

[32:30] Justin Clarke: That's incredible. I love tap. Like I'm a sucker for tap. Anytime a musical does tap, I'm just like I'm just there. Yeah, like if Hamilton is like one of my favorite musicals but the only thing that could have elevated it to like all-time status is if like they chucked a tap number in there, I would just be like tap number, like thank you. Like yeah, I would have if they chucked in a tap number for King George, no one could ever argue with me that it's not the greatest musical because it would just be amazing.

[33:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fantastic. Peter, I mean that's really all of the childhood we get to see but my gosh when that little kid does that number, I guess we don't really need to ask for much more. So we immediately change back to growing up Peter and he joins up with his friend Chris Bell to become like the Allen brothers and they start performing on these variety shows during the 70s so they're singing this like really bizarre song called Love Crazy. I mean it's just a song of its time. They have enough success that they start traveling internationally and are performing in a Hong Kong hotel to like Chinese businessmen and it just so happens, and this is absolutely bonkers, it just so happens that one night when they're performing, Judy Garland is in the audience, literally the Judy Garland.

[34:47] Justin Clarke: And so in the musical, Peter convinces her to perform with them and she sings and they immediately hit it off and Judy offers to take him to be her opening act in New York. They sing this song together called Only an Older Woman which I don't know but it fits perfectly into the show because Judy's becoming his mentor to take him to the next phase in his career. I think that fits perfectly like I mean Judy Garland being who she was, you know, mentoring Peter Allen who he was, it's just serendipitous like really.

[35:25] Justin Clarke: Yeah, and I don't know what it is about like these grand dames of yesteryear but they really are just fruit fly magnets. They just can't help themselves, we gays just like flock to them and fall in love with them and create these really strange intimate relationships that are somewhat undefinable. I had this conversation recently with someone about the LGBT community just being so devoted like once you love someone you love them to the end no matter what they do, you know, Kylie, Britney, Madonna. They're the Madonna boys, she can do no wrong.

[36:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, literally. So it doesn't matter what they do, like the community will love them to the end. Which by the way, Kylie is still killing it, that latest album is amazing.

[36:19] Justin Clarke: Yeah, she's incredible. The gays in America are the only ones who understand how amazing Kylie Minogue is in this country.

[36:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, like I mean like my mom loves her. I mean I think she's really good but I don't think I'll ever understand Kylie on the level that the, you know, the LGBT community will.

[36:38] Justin Clarke: For sure, for sure. So they go to America when Peter arrives in New York, he's introduced to Judy's daughter Liza and once again because of what we just talked about, they fall in love. You know, they sing the famous Oscar-winning song from the film Arthur, the best that you can do and Judy is fully against it, I'm sure because she recognizes a gay man when she sees one, but Liza ignores it and they end up getting married.

[36:51] Stephanie J. Block: It was mammoth. It was scary. It was thrilling and Hugh Jackman was a perfect lead and a perfect co-star and just set the tone for any time he was at the rehearsal studio or on stage and because of that it was a gloriously happy and loving and supportive company but trying to bring Liza Minnelli to Broadway was not an easy feat and it was constantly changing the look of her, the sound of her, how far to, you know, go to be too show busy from the beginning when she was 19 to have that sort of progression into the Liza that we know now and lots of discussions.

[37:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now Liza on Broadway was played by one Miss Stephanie J. Block. Did you know this?

[37:17] Justin Clarke: No, I didn't.

[37:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, so and you know Stephanie Block is a huge Broadway star at this point but this was one of her first major roles and man, a difficult role to pull off. She is actually a Californian and I'm a member of a group called Musical Theater Guild that she was also a member of so a few months ago, I guess it was last year, we had we did like this live event, online event with her to raise funds for the educational outreach that I oversee and I just want to play this little section of it because she was talking about playing Liza in The Boy From Oz. Here we go.

[38:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean can you imagine?

[38:40] Justin Clarke: I can't. Because here's the speaking of the gays, right? You're like bringing Liza Minnelli to life for these people who worship her and it's a version of Liza that kind of predates the Liza that we all know, right? So how exactly do you portray that?

[39:03] Justin Clarke: She didn't get great reviews but I think that the poetry of all of that is that what she ends up winning her Tony for is Cher.

[39:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, okay.

[39:11] Justin Clarke: Which is another gay icon, right? So yeah, so like all those years later when she did the Cher show, here's another person that we all know with another voice, with another really iconic look and way of speaking and this time she takes home the Tony so good on you, Stephanie J. Block. Got there in the end.

[39:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. Also apparently Liza did contribute ideas and wishes and desires to the show. She ultimately didn't go see it and I don't blame her from the story goes that Fred Ebb, like of Kander and Ebb who wrote Cabaret, went and saw The Boy From Oz and then told Liza Minnelli like don't go see it, your mom dies, your ex-husband dies, you don't need to see that and yeah like that whole sticky situation of other people watching her watch that, I mean you can't blame her. She doesn't need to go live through that, she lived through it once, right?

[39:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He is partying with, ultimately she confronts him about his homosexuality and their marriage ends at the end of the first act. He processes all of that by singing one of many, I think, showstoppers called Not the Boy Next Door.

[39:34] Justin Clarke: Yep, beautiful song. He done that one as the Tony Performance.

[39:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, he did like a little medley for the Tony Performance, didn't he?

[39:43] Justin Clarke: Yeah, yeah he did.

[39:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right, so now we're in act two. Peter has gone into this stage that we've already talked about, his cabaret stage where he's doing these one-man shows, and he meets this model named Gregory Connell, and they fall in love. He kind of becomes his stage manager and also designs all the lighting, like he kind of runs lights. And so, spoiler alert, when Greg contracts AIDS and passes away, Peter Allen would always perform right into the lights because that's where he would always be. Isn't that so sweet?

[40:23] Justin Clarke: Oh, that's really sweet.

[40:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, it makes me all like weepy to think about it.

[40:29] Justin Clarke: Yeah. During this period of time when he's fallen in love is also when some of his greatest hits come about. He writes, I Honestly Love You for Olivia Newton-John. He gives this really campy performance at Radio City Music Hall with the Rockettes with the song Everything Old is New Again, and they recreate it for the musical, and it's fantastic. This is kind of where I wanted to actually ask you about the role of kitsch and camp in Australian art.

[41:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[41:05] Justin Clarke: Specifically performance art, because when I think of a lot of my favourite Australian films, Muriel's Wedding, Strictly Ballroom, there is a level of camp to the performance. They're kind of kitschy, maybe a little grotesque, Chris Lilley stuff. All of that seems to be part of Australia's humour. Am I reading that correctly, or what's your take on it?

[41:29] Justin Clarke: I would say so. I think the two that you mentioned, they became musicals. They became probably two of our biggest musicals apart from Boy From Oz, Muriel's Wedding, and Strictly Ballroom. And then, obviously, you've got, just won the Tony, Moulin Rouge, and I think one of our kitschiest, I wouldn't say camp so much, but one of our kitschiest sort of films, which is, I think it's probably the most well-known film in Australia, is The Castle. It's got so many one-liners from it that Australians quote daily, like whenever you go out somewhere and, you know, it's beautiful surroundings. Say you go to the beach, you just stand there, you go, ugh, how's the serenity? And it's just like this, and everyone says it. Anyone who's like an Australian listening to it right now will know exactly what I'm talking about.

[42:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting. I've never seen this or heard of it. I have to check it out.

[42:27] Justin Clarke: But yeah, but kitchen and camp in Australia, especially in the performance industry, it's very well received, mainly on the rise of the LGBT community, but there is a lot of change in our performance industry, and it's becoming more about showing messages and getting change happening. And I think through the camp nature and kitchen in Australian theatre, that's how it's happening. It's a big change from Muriel's Wedding Days, Strictly Ballroom Days, and now it's becoming a whole different beast in itself, which is a fascinating change.

[43:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So in many ways, and this is what I'm hearing, so correct me if I'm wrong, it's almost as though campy performances, our favourite drag queens, whatever, it's those types of performances that allow a greater message to be delivered, because it's dressed up in something that's kind of ridiculous.

[43:20] Justin Clarke: Literally. And the drag scene in Australia is massive. It is so big at the moment, mainly thanks to RuPaul, I believe.

[43:38] Justin Clarke: I watched the season, I did. Yeah, it's great, it is great. I watched it with my friends, I was like, I didn't think it would be something I'd like, but I was like, this is brilliant, this is so good. And you're right, it's like we're getting these messages that we want to get across, but we wrap it in glitter. And I see some of that in Peter Allen, who was very upfront about saying that his on-stage persona was very different from his off-stage, that he was flamboyant and over-the-top on-stage, and much more, I don't want to say serious, but a little bit more sober off-stage, especially with his relationships. Hugh Jackman said that Liza Minnelli, when he met her, she grabbed his face and said he wasn't just over-the-top, he was also incredibly heartfelt and trustworthy, which I think is really interesting.

So, this way of revealing yourself by being over-the-top first is something that I feel like is kind of Australian, and maybe a really great representation to have here in this musical. And I think if we're getting really deep with it, it may come back to our inherent prejudices in Australia.

[44:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure, I mean, we all have them, but yeah, totally.

[45:03] Justin Clarke: And there was a whole thing a couple of years ago where we did what's called a plebiscite, which is controversial in itself. Basically, the plebiscite was based around gay marriage and whether we should make it legal in Australia. But the plebiscite wasn't a, this is a vote of yes or no, it was a poll, and it was this whole controversial thing about, why are we spending money on a poll for yes or no, when you could just make it a referendum and just go, yeah, this should be legal.

[45:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, interesting.

[45:37] Justin Clarke: And what Australians, like older Australians, the boomers, let's say, had of what people should be, but on stage you can be whoever you want.

[45:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, you have all the freedom.

[45:52] Justin Clarke: And people flock to it. Yeah, and it's so, the contrast between the two is fascinating. On stage, we love it, we go, oh, I love this person, love this drag queen. But why don't we like them when they're off stage? Why do they have to be someone different? Why don't they deserve any sort of right or privilege that you enjoy?

[46:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[46:09] Justin Clarke: That's such an interesting question. And I also wonder if, as performers, we sometimes inherently feel that prejudice, and so we, you know, we dance monkey dance to earn people's love, because maybe we're not entirely sure we'll get it otherwise.

[46:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and I think that comes back to Peter Allen, like, where he grew up, and the whole story with his father, and the town he would have lived in, he would have had to learn to hide himself. But then when he's on stage, and he's performing, he's doing these tap dances in these rural towns, everyone would have been like, oh, this is entertaining, like, look at this kid.

[46:51] Justin Clarke: Yeah, look at this kid, we can be proud of him, look at all that he can do.

[46:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, exactly. And then he, you know, had to break away from that because I guarantee off stage would have been a whole different story.

[47:00] Justin Clarke: Yeah. So actually getting back to the story, the older that Peter Allen gets, the more open he becomes with his sexuality. I mean, you weren't out and proud at that time, like that was not a thing. But he did fall in love with Greg. In the show, Greg tests positive for HIV, and then contracts AIDS. And he finally passes away. Peter also becomes sick with AIDS. They actually use, you know, once again, this kind of campy song that I Honestly Love You that we that we almost use humorously now, to really show how it's the love that Peter still has for this man that helps him push through his illness and keep working. Liza comes back at the end of the second act, to connect with Peter, and they kind of make peace and realize that their careers wouldn't have been as successful without the other person.

What's really cool about this show is as if it hadn't been a star vehicle already. This last section is just frickin showstopper after showstopper for Hugh Jackman. He goes back to Australia, and performs this magnificent concert, and sings I Still Call Australia Home, which we've already discussed. We hear his mother sing Don't Cry Out Loud, which is just a really tragic sort of commentary on how they couldn't be emotionally vulnerable with each other. And then right before Peter dies, he sings Once Before I Go. Talk about dying in style. I love that they give him this, this death, right? Because this song is just huge. And then it's almost like he goes to heaven. And heaven is I Go to Rio.

[49:03] Justin Clarke: Yeah, it's just like his dream. Such a number. It is like one of the best ways to end a musical I've seen. Because this honestly could be a very sad musical, right? Where everybody dies and tragically from a disease that no one really understood at the time. So many things went unsaid. There, here I go using that word again, brave. But it is brave to end a show this happy. Because ultimately, I think what Peter Allen's career was, was charisma and onstage energy. And you got to pay tribute to that. You got to pay tribute to that contribution.

[49:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, definitely. And it just goes to show that the artists who create art are humans. And sometimes the things that make them special are the things that also make their stories tragic. And I guess it isn't so much that the tragedy exists, but what they do with it. That's inspirational to me.

[50:02] Justin Clarke: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think as well, like Peter Allen will always be immortalized in this musical now.

[50:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amen. You're so right. You're so right. We they are now synonymous.

[50:14] Justin Clarke: Yeah, yeah, literally. Thank you so much, Justin, for doing this with me so much.

[50:20] Justin Clarke: No, thank you. This has been great. I loved actually just delving into something and to revisit The Boy From Oz, jumping way back in my memory, is actually, yeah, it makes you feel really nice, really, really good.

[50:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We would really appreciate it. We even have other things to help you feel connected to us in this lovely podcast community, including a TeePublic store where you can purchase designs based on episodes past and present. And don't forget about Patreon! Where for only $1 a month, you'll receive bonus episodes and special content made especially for you. Just to say thanks. Hey, Justin, how do we follow you and everything you're up to?

[51:17] Justin Clarke: So you can follow us on our Instagram and Facebook. It's at Theatre Thoughts Oz. Oz is in A-U-S, not O-Z, which is the shorter version. So yeah, at Theatre Thoughts Oz, you can also follow us online theatrethoughtsoz.online or just search us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, The Theatre Thoughts Podcast.

[51:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fantastic. It's so great to talk with you. Please enjoy your beautiful day over there. I hope the sun comes out. If not today, then tomorrow. To quote another musical. And to everybody out there, let's go to Rio.

[51:54] Justin Clarke: Yeah, let's do it. I'm going to get my maracas out.

[51:58] Justin Clarke: I do actually have maracas from when I went.

[52:02] Justin Clarke: You do not.

[52:02] Justin Clarke: I do. I should have actually had them here. Why didn't I have them here? They're somewhere on my shelf.