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[0:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Hi, I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper. And I am Joe Iconis. You are listening to the Album Podcast. And today we're going to be talking about I Was A Teenage Delinquent! Exclamation point. The song is a strange one in that it's not cut from a musical, but it did inspire a whole musical called Love and Hate Nation. On this episode, you get to hear all about the album version, which is actually the original version. And it's beautiful performances by Lauren Marcus and Molly Hager on the album. It's a yeah, it's the girl group, musical theater, rock and roll song of your dreams, hopefully. Listen up.

[1:05] Joe Iconis: I Was A Teenage Delinquent! Exclamation point. Lauren Marcus and Molly Hager on the album. This song has a fascinating origin story because obviously a lot of people know this song from the musical Love and Hate Nation, in which it's heard in quite different form than it is on this album. But the first time it was sung was not in the context of the musical. Should we start there?

[1:30] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, so I Was A Teenage Delinquent! is a song that I wrote totally as a standalone. I wrote it for a concert at the Beachmen in 2012. It was August of 2012. And it was the same concert that I premiered Party Hat and Slide Whistle. Those were the three brand new tunes that I wrote for that concert. And I might have actually premiered an early version of Jeff at that concert too, where I sang it myself. What do you think contributes to these concerts? We've talked about this on previous podcast episodes, where it's like multiple song premieres. Do you feel like it's because you have a break in your schedule? Do you feel like it's the opposite? And when you're really busy, you write a lot more of standalones? Is there any pattern?

[2:21] Joe Iconis: I think it's that. I think it's when I'm busy. When I'm busy, my brain is just firing in a different way. I do think that it's like, you know, back in the day, I just had more time. And so, you know, there was more of this kind of thing like five, 10 years ago than there is now. But yeah, I think it's that. I think that when I'm in it, when I'm in rehearsal for a show, I'm just so like laser beam focused that I can access, you know, ideas and words. And they're just, they're more sort of at my fingertips. I feel like I'm just like stimulated constantly when I'm like fully in a show. And I think that in the old days, or not the old days, but like, say, 10 years ago, you know, because I found myself in rehearsal for like musicals a little bit less, the concerts were like, you know, my musicals, you know, like the concerts were, I was, you know, I was rehearsing them and thinking about them in the way that I think about, you know, Love and Hate Nation, the show, or Be More Chill, the show, or Hunter, the show.

And so, I think I was, you know, in the days leading up to those concerts, I was like, oh, I want to, you know, I want to write this, I want to write this, I want to write this. And I just kind of would. I mean, what I think is funny is that when I think about the types of songs that I've written that have been sort of premiered together in clusters, I do think that I can kind of tell a little bit where my brain was at when I was writing those songs, especially in retrospect. You know, it's like, I was a teenage delinquent and Party Hat and, you know, Slide Whistle, there's just like, there's like an effervescence about those songs. And they're a lot about, like, doing things for people you love.

And it's like, when I think back on it, it's like, that's when I was, like, getting back together with Lauren Marcus. And it just feels like, oh, I was, like, feeling hopeful or something during that time. And I think it came out in those tunes, for sure.

[4:36] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Well, I'm very excited to hear what you come up with while you're in rehearsal for the Hunter S. Thompson musical this year, because now I feel like you're gonna have unexpectedly, but now we'll predict it. Like, you know, this is a song I wrote for George Salazar as a man who's trapped on the subway while we were rehearsing the show during the day.

[4:49] Joe Iconis: Yeah, truly. But it's. Random ideas. Yeah, it's so funny. But it's like, you know, I did a workshop of the Hunter show this past summer, and I just wrote so much and that that ended up being a lot of script stuff, but like a lot of, like, musical stuff, too. And it's like, I just kind of, like, do it when there's no time. It's so weird. It's like, and it's exhausting. But it's, it's, it's, it's just, it just does something to the makeup of my brain. It's like, I can, I can just kind of create, create in a way that's just easier when I'm not, like, fully in rehearsal or, you know, fully in it. You know, I wrote it because I really wanted to write a classic girl group song or something in the style of classic girl groups.

I love girl group music. And, and I, I wanted to write something that that sort of used the musical language of those songs. And then I, I just had this idea of writing something that was like, a song about, about bad girls, you know, a song about, about delinquents about, you know, I was like, I'm, I love a lot of, like, classic girl gang movies, like Switchblade Sisters and Faster Pussycat Kill Kill. And a lot of these sort of, like, 50s and 60s movies where it was kind of like, you know, about, like, beware of, of, of teenagers and especially beware of, you know, fast women. And when you have, like, fast women who are also teenagers, like, you know, the, that's how society's ruin will come about.

And so I loved the idea of, like, writing something that kind of played with that idea. And then it just really quickly turned into, like, this, this love song between these two characters. And I, and I had the line, I fell in love in Juvie Hall, kind of, like, in my brain for a long time. It was one of those things that I had in a, like, open Word doc on my computer for, for months and months and months and months and months. And it was, I think I had the next line too. I definitely had, I fell in love in Juvie Hall. And then I think I had, it didn't take much time at all, I think is what it was. And so I think that, I actually think that I sort of had that idea. And I was thinking about it as a song between a guy and a girl.

And then it was kind of like, oh, no, this is between two girls. That's what it should be. And I think that was the thing that kind of, like, clicked it in for me. And, yeah, and so then I wrote it just to be this, like, straight up standalone. And I, I wrote it specifically for my good friends, Jenny Donahue and Rachel Lee. They were the ones who premiered it. And, yeah, and it's, you know, a lot of people think that a lot of people are confused by it, because there's that spoken word section in the middle. And so it feels like it's from a musical, because there's, you know, dialogue in it. But I was, you know, I put that in there, because in a lot of the girl group songs, there is a spoken word section in those songs.

You know, like, there's a, there's like a, you know, like a recitation component in those tunes. And so for me, it was like, oh, I think it'd be so hilarious if, you know, if there was just this, you know, just the spoken word, just the moment where the main gal is just, like, speaking from the heart, which is what they did sometimes. And, yeah, and I remember when we, when we rehearsed it, when Jenny, who was really, like, just a wild character and just an awesome, awesome person and performer. So Jenny's British. She started singing it with an American accent, because that's something that's very sort of typical in British musical theater. People perform musical theater with American accents.

It's just kind of like what you do. And I remember being like, oh, can you, like, do you have to use an American accent to sing? And she was like, oh, no, I just sort of am used to. And I was like, let's do it with a British accent. And so, like, the first performance of the song, which is on YouTube, Jenny does it in her British accent, which I love so much.

[9:04] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Do you feel like, already loving the genres you talked about in the way that you do, do you feel like you dug into kind of any of the girl group songs or the kind of, like, teen rebel movies while you were writing the song, even just, like, a little bit in a way that made you inspired to write Love and Hate Nation as a whole afterwards?

[9:20] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I definitely did. Like, you know, just sort of, like, creating the two characters that I created just in the context of the song, I was really pulling from, like, from, you know, girl gang archetypes, right, of, like, the main girl who is, you know, who is, like, kind of awkward and, you know, has some stuff going on. And, you know, I really love this movie Reform School Girls. And there's, like, a couple of them like that where it's, like, they, you know, they have bug collections and they're, like, the weirdos. And I always love in movies where it's, like, in places, like, you know, juvie halls or, like, classic juvie halls, it's, like, the, you know, the kids who are bad there, they're, like, they're so much worse than any other kid.

So if you're, like, the bad kid in a juvie hall, you're so bad. And if you're the weird kid in a juvie hall, you're so weird. And so it's these extremes. And so, you know, that's where the sort of main girl came from. And then her love interest, you know, I wanted to do this chick who was, like, really closed off and really super tough and just, like, you know, the coolest. And these sort of, you know, archetypes of, like, the girl who's unsure of herself and then the girl who's super confident, those really sort of informed what then became the two lead characters of Love and Hate Nation, Susanna and Sheila.

[10:34] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: This song also, a lot of your songs strike me as Steppenwolfian, is a word I like to use. But especially this song, I was talking about Steppenwolf the other day in reference to some of their amazing work that's come from there and is in New York this season. And it made me think of, like, our family and our kind of group of artists we work with, which it sometimes does. It's this song is performed by Lauren and Molly on the album. Lauren Marcus, you know, played another role in Love and Hate Nation and on the original cast album, you know, does not play the character that sings this song, plays another character. And, you know, Molly also sings, like, an incredible rendition of Sheila Nail in concert.

So they both have that. But it's also just such a, you know, Molly and Lauren famously sang this song after Rachel Lee and Jenny Donoghue did in concert in their Halloween costumes as characters from Orange is the New Black, which also lends a new level to the song. It's just what I mean is just actors coming at songs in different years from different perspectives, playing different roles in different productions, just the kind of collective nature of art that's highlighted by this song being sung by these two on the album.

[11:41] Joe Iconis: Yeah, it's very much emblematic of, like, what occurs throughout the album and throughout the family with our group of artists. Yeah, and it's, you know, it's something that I love. And it's like I write musicals and songs for actors to perform them. You know, anytime I'm writing something, I want to give an actor good material so they can interpret it and make it their own and really have something to sink their teeth into. And I think that, you know, I don't know my level of artistic success or merit or whatever, but I know that I've done a pretty good job with that. In my career, I've written a lot of really good material for actors. And my hope is always that if I do that, multiple actors can take that material and interpret it.

And I love, you know, in our group that, yeah, you can have, you know, Will Rowland or Annie Golden or Betty Buckley or Molly Hager all singing the same song. And hopefully there's enough there that it can be a fully, you know, satisfying.

[12:45] Joe Iconis: Where they're happily declaring that they're in love. It's such a joyful song. It's such a rock out. Making it so that not everyone who was in this kind of situation would have felt hopeless. It's a song with so much hope in it.

[14:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, for sure. I mean, and that was part of it, too. I wanted it to feel like nothing but joy and celebration. And the song itself, I do think of the song as it's kind of its own separate thing. But we get some clues into these characters' lives. And the main girl mentions her suicidal scars. And so I wanted to be respectful of the reality of these characters' lives, but also treat it like the reality of their lives and not a part of their lives and not the thing that defines them. And that's something that I certainly then tried to carry over in Love and Hate Nation itself, where it's like, I think we've seen it. We've seen stories about young people who are in terrible places, who have terrible things happen to them, and then do terrible things to themselves and others.

And it's a valid story, of course. But I think I was just interested in telling a story that felt hopeful and felt like, yeah, you can be in an awful place. And you can have experienced terrible, terrible things. But you also then can find the love of your life and live happily ever after. And I know that that's possible. I mean, these things do happen. And so it's like, if all of these other stories are valid, why isn't that one valid? And then the more I've worked in this business and really the more I've met specifically Be More Chill fans and sort of saw how they responded to Be More Chill dealing with really heavy issues, but in a sort of light, fun, silly way, the more I felt like, oh, no, this is important to offer up these stories where these marginalized characters are happy at the end.

And this idea of why do we have to see marginalized people abused in order for them to occupy the center of a story? Why can't a person who's part of a marginalized population just have a love song? Why can't they recognize or address the things in their lives that make their life hard, but also say, but I can also have fun. I can also laugh. So I think that's stuff that's all at play in this song and then to a greater extent in Love and Hate Nation, the musical.

[16:30] Joe Iconis: Yeah. Talking about that, this song is, again, an origin point for Love and Hate Nation. You mentioned it was 2012 when this song premiered with Jenny Donoghue and Rachel Lee. And then the first time Love and Hate Nation was staged by John Simpkins at Penn State was 2018. Six years, I guess in comparison to a lot of musicals, is not as long. But it's still six years. So at what point during those six years did the Penn State Commission come about? At what point did you write the next material after this song for what became Love and Hate Nation?

[17:04] Joe Iconis: Yeah, so after I premiered the song, I really loved it. I was really proud of it. And I immediately was like, it would be so cool to do something else with this. Like it would be so cool to live in this sonic world, to live in the world of these characters. And so it was always kind of in the back of my mind. And it was kind of in the back of my mind then to do something that was like a girl gang, something that was set in a GV hall. I couldn't quite get the story, but I knew I kind of wanted to do that. And then the Penn State Commission came around in 2016. And John Simpkins basically said to me, you can write anything you want. You just have to have roles for all of the people who are in the senior class at Penn State.

Because it was the first year of this musical theater commissioning program. And I think it was like seven women and one dude. And because of that, I was like, you know what? This might be the time when I'm going to write my GV Hall musical. And that's really what did it. It was just kind of like I have to write a show for predominantly women, and I think this is it. I think this is the show, this is the time. And then the thing that happened around that time was Trump was elected, and so I kind of wanted to write something that, or not kind of, I did want to write something that addressed that and addressed America at that moment, but I didn't want to write anything that was like on the nose about it.

And so it felt like, oh, this could be a really cool way to kind of address some of the things that are happening in the country right now without it actually being about that. And that's how it was born. And when I first started writing it, I never thought that I Was a Teenage Delinquent would end up in the show. I really felt like, because I Was a Teenage Delinquent is, as a song, it's a full experience. The whole story is completed. She says, I fell in love with this girl. I don't know if I should tell her. Then we hear from the girl, and I'm also in love with this girl, but I never told her. And then they tell each other, and then they kiss. And so it's like a full beginning, middle, end.

The story's over. And so I knew I couldn't actually put that song in the show, because it tells what I think will be the whole story of the show itself. Then, as I was writing Love and Hate Nation, and right before our first ever reading, I sort of got to this place where it was like, oh, they have to confess their love to each other. And then anything I was writing, it just felt like, I'm actually just writing I Was a Teenage Delinquent. I'm sort of ripping off myself. And it's like, I said it best initially. And so then, I Was a Teenage Delinquent, now I call it something else. Now it's called I Fell in Love in Juvie Hall, in Love and Hate Nation. That's the official title of it now. And so it's this weird kind of adaptation of I Was a Teenage Delinquent.

And because I wrote it, and because I Was a Teenage Delinquent was the impetus for the whole thing, I don't know if it's weird. I don't know if it feels right. It's just so strange. I'm so close to it. But it feels like, as it exists in Love and Hate Nation, that's the form the song wanted to take in the show. And I kind of just let my impulse guide me there. And so yeah, it feels like Love and Hate Nation did a weird cover version of I Was a Teenage Delinquent. And that is what is currently in the show.

[20:39] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Either because they're aware of the journey you just described with this song or not, I feel like there are fans of yours who love a specific song and are like, oh my god, is there a whole musical about Jeff? Or is there a whole musical about Kevin? Do you think, and you don't have to say which song it is, but do you think that this would ever inspire you in a future tense? Do you think there's maybe any other song you've written where you'd go? I could expand that in some way.

[21:05] Joe Iconis: I don't know. I will say this is the only song I've written where I've ever felt compelled to. And it's just in a really sort of organic way. I was like, this is the only one. But it's hard to think about stuff like Kevin. You know, Kevin specifically. That's the one that people ask me about the most. And I just like, I don't know. It's like I think that I sort of like hanging with that character for six minutes in the context of a song. But I don't know what a full musical of that would even be. It's like it doesn't call out to me. Ammonia is another one. Ammonia is like, but Ammonia is one where I feel like it's a moment with this character. I'm really interested in that character of the woman who sings Ammonia.

And so maybe, and maybe that's a case of like if it ended up in a show, it might be the song that ends up in the show, but then the musical will be about something else. But yeah, I don't know. But this is the one that sort of immediately was like, oh, this is something bigger. And I haven't had that experience again. But maybe I will. Who knows?

[22:38] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: As you described it about Ammonia, it was like only the songs in themselves are obviously, they're complete pieces of work. And if you had them in a show that was about something else, they would just steal the show. People would be like, this musical about this family is great, but I wanna learn about the lady who just sang Ammonia. So yeah, it's kind of self-defeating, but I guess you never know what the future holds. Who knows? We'll see. Look out for Jeff the Musical.

[23:00] Joe Iconis: Yeah. Anything else about, I was a teenage delinquent exclamation point later became I fell in love in Juvie Hall? You know, I just wanna shout out the gorgeous performances of Lauren Marcus and Molly Hager. They're just amazing. And their voices are so different. Like they kind of sound like they're from different planets, you know, just like the timbre of their voices and their style of singing. But I think it works so beautifully for the song. I think without even doing anything, they communicate that these two characters are like worlds apart just by the way their voices sound. And I think it's like a testament, I hope it's a testament to the beauty of actors who have personality-filled voices, who come to the table immediately with recognizable, strong, opinionated voices.

There's nothing that sounds generic about the voice of either Lauren Marcus or Molly Hager. And I love that so much. And I love hearing them sing together because that feels like what life is, you know? It's like we're not all the same, like we're different in so many ways. And I like that, you know, their voices sound so opposed. But then I think they hang together really nicely. And the arrangement of the song, this is one of my favorite Charlie tracks. It's just so humongous. And you know, in Love and Hate Nation, the orchestrations are great, but for Love and Hate Nation, we tried to make it a little sort of grittier, a little bit like harder. And for the sound of it, I mean, and for this, it was kind of like, okay, let's really go full girl group and make it as sort of lush and bombastic as all of those Phil Spector arrangements were. And I think we did a nice job.

[24:40] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: You said it all best, that's it. I was a teenage delinquent.

[24:43] Joe Iconis: Hey, thanks so much for listening or watching to my podcast. Do me a favor and go to wherever you just listen to or watch this thing and subscribe or like, or give us a great rating or review and then head to bpn.fm slash album to find out even more information about this podcast, more ways to watch, more ways to listen and check out my album, Album. Thanks so much for hanging out. Album podcast is executive produced by Liz Armstrong, produced by Dori Berenstain, Alan Seals, Kim Garris and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network. Be sure to visit bpn.fm slash album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to Album.

[25:21] ♪ Musical number: "Falling in Love in Juvie Hall" — performed by Lauren Marcus and Molly Hager ♪