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[0:01] Joe Iconis: Hey, I'm Joe Iconis.

[0:03] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper. And on today's podcast we're going to be talking about Lydia's Song. Which is exciting because it's a song that Joe wrote on spec for a certain musical with a character named Lydia. And a character named Beetlejuice.

[0:16] Joe Iconis: True. It's Beetlejuice. Brought her carcass to class to keep me company. A move which was apparently not cool.

[0:22] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Lydia's Song. Lydia's Song. Obviously there's a lot of songs on this album that came from spec. Like you wrote them on spec for a project. You got the project or you didn't get the project. But the song has existed in concert land and now it exists on an album. Lydia's Song being one of them. Lydia's Song is one of them. The movie Beetlejuice is a movie that I've always loved. Spoiler, it's Beetlejuice. Oh yeah, it's about Beetlejuice. And so I, you know, for years was like I should write a song inspired by Beetlejuice in the way that I have written many songs inspired by movies. And there's many of those songs on the album. And when I write a song inspired by a movie, it's not like, oh, I want to write a song that will potentially be in the musical version of this movie.

It's just like in a way that, you know, people get inspired by Central Park or museums. I am often inspired by like genre films. And so Beetlejuice was always one of those movies for me. And then I got the opportunity to write a spec song for Beetlejuice the musical, the musical, the musical. And so I was like, oh, this is perfect because this is an idea, an entity, a world that I wanted to live in for a while anyway. And so, yeah. And so that's what, that's how Lydia's song was born.

[1:54] Joe Iconis: At what point, so for Beetlejuice, when you were like, oh, I'm actually going to write on spec for this project and see if maybe I'll be writing the musical. You wrote two songs. Lydia's song was one of them. At what point do you decide, oh, this is the song that I wrote on spec that I feel like will have some future life in my concerts? Like is it while you're writing it, you're like, this is the song I really like for concerts. And this one I just wrote on spec. Or is it like shortly after? When do you find you put it into the concert program?

[2:20] Joe Iconis: It's, I mean, I think it kind of, it usually just kind of presents itself. You know, it usually, I can usually just feel whether or not something is going to work out of context or not, you know? And, and so like with, and with Lydia's song, it was a case of me writing for spec, but, but connecting to it on a slightly bigger level. Like it felt, you know, I think because it was, it was a song and a character that I had thought so much about for years, it, as I was writing it, maybe as I was writing it, it felt like, oh, this is something that's a little bit bigger than this moment and this potential musical. The other spec song I wrote for Beetlejuice is called Ghosts With the Most, right? Yeah.

And, and that just feels like there's no world where that song is ever anything other than a cut song from Beetlejuice the musical. You know, it sounds like a spec song. It's like, and it's, and I didn't particularly like it very much. Like that was a case of me writing what I thought people wanted, which they clearly didn't because I didn't get the job. But, but Lydia's song is something that I, I kind of stand by, you know, and it feels like this is what, this is a song I would have written had I not been writing a spec song for Beetlejuice the musical. And so, and it just feels like, ah, it can kind of live outside of that. The genre that Ghosts With the Most feels like to me is so specific.

It's like 2000s Norbert Leo Butz production number from a musical comedy, which there are actually like six examples of. But I, when I heard Ghosts With the Most, I was like, oh, this is like a don't break the rules, great big stuff. Insert song that Norbert sang on Smash for the same kind of song. It's, it's that kind of number. But yeah, it probably wouldn't work in a concert.

[4:04] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. I do think it's fun though, because the, especially Lydia's song, the, the sort of like sonic world of the song is very much how I felt like Beetlejuice should kind of operate as a musical. I was very much like this, it wants to live in a sort of like highly theatrical, you know, gothic world because, you know, sonically I felt like it was, that was the, the, the, that felt like the sonic, you know, manifestation of the visuals of, of the movie. And the, the, the show is like so different from that, like the show. And, and it's, and it's one of those things where like, you know, I, when I saw Beetlejuice, the musical, the musical, the musical, I was like, oh, you know what? I never, there's no way I ever would have gotten this job because I, what I did and what I thought about it was so wildly different from this, but it's not even like, there was no sense of like, oh shucks, I wish I could have done that. Cause it was like, this is just a totally different thing. It's like a different beast.

[5:06] Joe Iconis: Well, I always think of this with the legendary like ragtime spec songs, how obviously like we all love Aaron's and Flaherty's ragtime, but there's no reason why like it would have also not been great had one of the other like writers written it. We would have been in an alternate multiverse of another ragtime.

[5:23] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Oh my God, the ragtime multiverse.

[5:25] Joe Iconis: But, but there are, I mean, it's what style the producers want, obviously. And there's, you know, not just one good answer.

[5:28] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Another thing is I have such a favorite performance of Lydia's song, unless I'm making this up in my head, but there were some concerts that we did at the Beachmen while Be More Chill was off Broadway. And it was really exciting cause it was, um, actually this is why it was the most exciting was the concerts. There were four of them. And the first one, um, correct me if I'm wrong. Like we were like, we wanted to go to Broadway. We thought it might happen. Like we didn't know yet. The second one, a very small number of us knew we were going to Broadway and like, you know, barely anyone else. The third one, everyone on stage and like the offstage people involved with Be More Chill knew we were going to Broadway, but like the world didn't know.

And the fourth one, it was like, everyone knows we're going to Broadway. So the concerts had this like amazing progression. Um, and I just remember all of those concerts being really special, a lot of like really meaningful performances and wonderful audiences. Uh, but Lydia's song, I believe Lauren sang Lydia's song at all of those. If not, I think she's singing at all of those concerts. And it was when she had sadly sprained her ankle during the off-Broadway Be More Chill. And she like limped on stage with her, you know, crutch and like sang Lydia's song. And it was just such a like happy moment of, oh, we're still like right across the street. Like, you know, it was, it was sad that she wasn't doing the show for a minute, but that was really great. And I just feel like how she does the song is so incredible.

[6:49] Joe Iconis: It's yeah, it's an amazing performance. And it's like, and it's, you know, what I love about her performance is that it's, it's contemporary. It sounds contemporary, uh, but it also is so sort of classic musical theater, you know, I mean, in the song itself is very classic musical theater. Like, there's nothing about it that sounds like, you know, like six or something, you know, it's like, it's, it feels like it's, it's kind of like a throwback song. And I love that she's able to like, to harness that throwback style while also sounding completely, uh, of today.

[7:20] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Do you have any favorite lyrics from this song? I haven't asked you this a lot yet, but I feel like there's just so many fun ones.

[7:24] Joe Iconis: I, you know, I tend to, to not, I, I, I usually shy away from, um, try like making cultural references and songs. And actually that's something that the, the Beatle, I remember when I wrote the spec song or the spec song, one of the things they really wanted was they wanted a lot of pop culture references and all of the songs. So you gave them what they wanted in this thing you're about to say.

[7:49] Joe Iconis: I gave them what they wanted. Yeah. And so, and I, cause I, that's something I wouldn't have done. Uh, but you know, in the song she says, I despise Justin Bieber. Vincent Price is okay. And I, I, I usually try to not do pop culture references because it's, it just always feels so dated. It's like so cringy to me, especially in musicals when you, when you hear a pop culture reference, because they're, they're usually already outdated. And so I really wanted to, to have the references be like very, very specific and be things that I believe will, will age, you know, well. And so I felt like Vincent Price felt like a timeless reference and Justin Bieber feels like a timeless reference in the way I wanted to reference him in the way that that character thought about him, you know, all the kids get out their phones and Google Vincent Price.

[8:35] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I mean, that's nice. Yeah. I know who Vincent Price is now. Yeah. It makes me happy. And then in 50 years, kids will know who Justin Bieber is because of the song.

[8:44] Joe Iconis: Yeah. I think that actually is an interesting thing about like, be more chill. A lot of the references are obviously like throwbacks or, uh, like kind of classic references because I feel like you did decide early on, like maybe the black suits was the only one where it was on intention. Like, Oh, we, we've said Facebook chat and now we're going to have to revise this. So like, how do we avoid this? So musicals feel more timeless.

[9:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's something that I feel like very early in my career. I like really, I really, you know, kind of got off on, on the pop culture reference thing. Cause it's like, as, as a writer, it's fun because you, as you're doing it, you feel really, you know, hip and current and it's always like an easy lap. You know, it's like, if you put like, if you rhyme something with Kardashian, it's like, everyone's like, Oh, that's so clever.

[9:24] Joe Iconis: Sure. Um, but it's, it's very, to me, it's very like, it's, you know, a fast foodie. Um, uh, and, and I did it at like in, uh, in the song Helen, there's a lyric, um, uh, when he's talking about, when he's talking about Helen and the bridge, uh, and he goes, buddy, I bet she's tight with Fred Durst. And I thought that was like the funniest lyric when I wrote it and I wrote it in, you know, 2006, six and maybe even earlier. And so Fred Durst, who's the lead singer of Limp Bizkit, uh, he, uh, he was someone and people would have, he was like, just barely in the conversation when I wrote it and sort of conjured up images of like, you know, sort of a trashy rock star who would be hanging around with porn stars.

And, and, and it, it like kind of worked when I wrote it. But even then I would, people would be like, who's Fred Durst, you know? And, and, which also then made me feel cool. Cause I was like, these musical theater people don't even know who Fred Durst is. I bet they've never even heard of Limp Bizkit. Um, and then like, as soon as I got a couple of years out, I was just like, why did I put Fred Durst in the song? Because no one knows who the hell it is. I feel like in high school, like, you know, they're doing it in song study and they're like, Fred Durst is someone that Helen went to high school with that was very trashy and he was in the band. Which I'm, which I'm fine with. I like that reading of it better than, better than the actual one. Um, which is just to say that I'm now very specific and very careful about the pop culture references and my songs. And I like the ones in Lydia's song.

[11:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Do you feel at all though, that it's harder in shows than in like standalone songs and concerts? Cause I feel like in some way, I don't know if you agree, but it's like, you can get away with it when a song is just a contained song and it takes place in, you can tell this song to place in like maybe the nineties or whatever, as opposed to a show where it's being done. So it has to all be current in sort of a different way.

[11:21] Joe Iconis: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, no, I, I, I hear that. I mean, it's also, you know, it's different in, in, in period shows too. Like that's the thing. Cause like my, you know, Love and Hate Nation, that's full of pop culture references of the time, you know, because that is the thing that can like set you in a time and place if that's what you're trying to do. I think it's, you know, it's tricky when you're trying, it's tricky when it's trying to be contemporary.

[11:35] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. It's only what's current. That's so true.

[11:43] Joe Iconis: Yeah. Lydia's song.

[11:48] Joe Iconis: Hey, thanks so much for listening or watching to my podcast. Do me a favor and go to wherever you just listen to or watch this thing and subscribe or like, or give us a great rating or review, and then head to bpn.fm slash album to find out even more information about this podcast, more ways to watch, more ways to listen and check out my album.

[12:03] Joe Iconis: Album. Thanks so much for hanging out. Album podcast is executive produced by Liz Armstrong, produced by Dori Berenstain, Alan Seals, Kim Garris, and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network. Be sure to visit bpn.fm slash album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to album.