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[0:17] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila, as always. I'm here with my pal Bruce.

[0:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Hey, Eila.

[0:24] Eila Mell: Hey, Bruce. So I'm just excited because we have J. Harrison Ghee on our show.

[0:32] Bruce Gotlieb: I know. What a great guest. What a force.

[0:36] Eila Mell: Right? Talent and everything.

[0:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Just I know. We're gonna have a great conversation. But before we get to that, I need to slow down a bit because you got to see... I'm so jealous. You got to see our guest James Monroe Eigelhart in A Wonderful World on Broadway.

[0:53] Eila Mell: Yes, yes. So I need a review.

[0:57] Bruce Gotlieb: A Wonderful World is playing at Studio 54. It is a really interesting environment when you walk in. Because I mean, first of all, it's Studio 54, so you have, you know, the huge disco ball when you first walk in, which is really cool. And it's such a great space. Just it's, you know, you don't feel cramped. It's a nice open space. All the seats are pretty great. So I like just going there.

[1:22] Eila Mell: Yeah, and it was an interesting design because the curtain's closed. So you have the red curtain, but along the proscenium, the design is all of these different size suitcases.

[1:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh.

[1:33] Eila Mell: Maybe like music cases too. They're props. Certain sizes. That's built into the set, or those are props.

[1:39] Bruce Gotlieb: That's it. Yeah, some of them are props.

[1:42] Eila Mell: Okay. But for the most part, they're, you know, units.

[1:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[1:46] Eila Mell: So you're sitting there and you're looking at all these different bags that are on top of one another. Once the curtain opens, you know, then you get the rest of the scenic design.

[1:54] Bruce Gotlieb: And does that sort of become a frame around it? Is that how it works?

[1:58] Eila Mell: Okay. Who designed this set? Do you know? Is that a bad question to ask?

[2:02] Bruce Gotlieb: It's never a bad question.

[2:03] Eila Mell: Okay, good. Scenic and video design, Adam Koch and Stephen Royal.

[2:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay, great. So that was interesting looking at it and then wondering why. But as the story goes on, Louis Armstrong spends a lot of time on the road. So whether there's another meaning other than that, that's what I took away from it.

[2:24] Eila Mell: Right. I think it's just, you know, you live out of a suitcase. So probably that's I would guess without seeing it, that's why that's there. But yeah.

[2:33] Bruce Gotlieb: I will say, and you know, when we interviewed James, he did share with us the work that was going into working with, you know, vocal coach, the same one that Alex Brightman used for Beetlejuice to make sure that he was affecting Louis Armstrong's voice, but in a healthy way that is sustainable and wouldn't cause damage to his normal voice.

[2:56] Eila Mell: Right. And for that reason, he's not doing all eight performances a week.

[3:00] Bruce Gotlieb: If you close your eyes, you would swear Louis Armstrong is staring at the end of the day.

[3:04] Eila Mell: Oh, that's exciting.

[3:06] Bruce Gotlieb: So it's really, really cool. The ex-wives, there are four of them.

[3:11] Eila Mell: Right.

[3:12] Bruce Gotlieb: They are really, really doing some amazing work.

[3:16] Eila Mell: How big is their part in this story?

[3:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Each one has its own sliver of time.

[3:22] Eila Mell: Gotcha. Okay. So it's sort of like four episodes almost?

[3:25] Bruce Gotlieb: A little bit, but for them at least. I mean, the story is pretty fluid. But each one comes in and then as one leaves, they kind of trail where they'll come back and forth. It's not like, you know, once the first wife is done, she goes away and never to be seen again. She'll come out here and there.

[3:41] Eila Mell: Okay, great. Because they revisit those times. Darlicia Cerce, who plays the fourth wife, who we loved in How to Dance in Ohio, was just extraordinary.

[3:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, good. And Dion Figgins, who plays Daisy Parker, was out of this world. Really, really out of this world.

[4:02] Eila Mell: Oh, that's great. They were two standouts to me. I could see potentially maybe Dion getting remembered for something, Tony Time.

[4:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[4:11] Eila Mell: You never know.

[4:11] Bruce Gotlieb: In a featured, you know, in a featured role. You know, it's hard because there's four of them.

[4:15] Eila Mell: Right.

[4:16] Bruce Gotlieb: But she's got one song where the audience just went crazy for that.

[4:21] Eila Mell: Oh, really?

[4:22] Bruce Gotlieb: That's great. You hear this on what seems unnatural ability, but clearly is quite natural to her. So really, really good. Also, some other notable standouts was DeWitt Fleming Jr.

[4:36] Eila Mell: Mm-hmm.

[4:37] Bruce Gotlieb: He plays Lincoln Perry. He also is the tap choreographer, and he comes in and he stops the show cold with his tap number.

[4:45] Eila Mell: Oh, great.

[4:46] Bruce Gotlieb: And the ensemble, the dancing in the ensemble is really strong, really fun choreography. And they are working. You know when you see a show and you could just tell the ensemble is pouring everything into it, especially in the dance numbers? That's what that felt like.

[5:01] Eila Mell: Great.

[5:03] Bruce Gotlieb: So I think the choreography is really strong, potentially could be remembered as well. It's a fun show. There's some things I didn't know about Louis Armstrong. My only, I guess, takeaway was, you know, with some other biopic. Is it a biopic if it's a biomusical?

[5:18] Eila Mell: Okay, yeah.

[5:20] Bruce Gotlieb: My other, you know, my issue with some other biomusicals that you get is sometimes the story, there's no conflict resolution that needs to happen.

[5:31] Eila Mell: Yeah, not enough drama.

[5:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. So this could have used a little bit more of that because while there might be things you didn't know about Louie, it's just you're finding them out, and it's just like, oh, okay, that's good to know. I think the book or the story could use a little bit more drama.

[5:48] Eila Mell: Okay.

[5:48] Bruce Gotlieb: So that way you're rooting for him a little bit more.

[5:50] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[5:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Because I didn't find myself rooting for him.

[5:53] Eila Mell: You weren't rooting against him.

[5:54] Bruce Gotlieb: I wasn't rooting against him. I just was gathering information being told to me, which is great because I love learning about people.

[6:01] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[6:02] Bruce Gotlieb: But I would have liked there to be a little bit something where I had a vested interest in him.

[6:07] Eila Mell: Okay.

[6:08] Bruce Gotlieb: The first thing that entered my mind when I left the theater was how amazing for James to have this project that he's so passionate about, and that he gets the opportunity not only to play the character, to co-direct, to really immerse himself in it and be able to tell a story that's important to him.

[6:32] Eila Mell: Right.

[6:33] Bruce Gotlieb: And also he can still go see it too, because he...

[6:33] Eila Mell: That's right.

[6:38] Bruce Gotlieb: James T. Lane does two shows a week.

[6:40] Eila Mell: That's right.

[6:41] Bruce Gotlieb: So I think, you know, looking at it that way, to know from talking to him how much this meant to him. I just think you don't get most people don't get that opportunity that often. You know, if they have something they feel passionate about or something they want to see happen, they'll tell people and maybe eventually it'll telephone game it to the right person who can make it happen. James made sure he made it happen for himself.

[7:06] Eila Mell: And I think aside from everything else, he probably leaves feeling very accomplished every night from the theater.

[7:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, he should be. Aside from the fact that he's, you know, working up there, but yeah, and starring in a Broadway musical and directing.

[7:18] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[7:19] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, that's the win right there. The one thing I did miss that James does like nobody else is those character parts. Because he does it better than almost anybody when you're getting up there and you're playing that character role.

[7:35] Eila Mell: Right.

[7:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Did he have to be the straight man for this sort of a little bit?

[7:39] Eila Mell: So that's where I just I wanted that because he's so good at it.

[7:42] Bruce Gotlieb: He really is. And I could just listen to him talk all day. The voice forget the singing voice, which is, you know, insane. Just his speaking voice is so gorgeous.

[7:53] Eila Mell: Very smooth.

[7:54] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Very smooth.

[7:55] Eila Mell: Yeah, yeah.

[7:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, this time you have you're listening to Louie, which is also very smooth.

[8:00] Eila Mell: Yeah, pretty well, a little gravelly, but in this in the smooth James way.

[8:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, that's what I want for my Louie. I want gravel.

[8:06] Eila Mell: That's right. Well, all right. So would you recommend this show?

[8:11] Bruce Gotlieb: It's a fun show. I especially think people that grew up with his music would really enjoy it because it gives anytime you're dealing with something that has a reference, a pop culture reference or a reference back into someone's life, it gives you that nostalgic feeling.

[8:26] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[8:26] Bruce Gotlieb: And that alone is typically worth the price of admission.

[8:30] Eila Mell: And the music must sound gorgeous.

[8:32] Bruce Gotlieb: The music sounds great, the band sounds great. They even get you to sing along a little to Hello Dolly.

[8:39] Eila Mell: Oh. Okay.

[8:40] Bruce Gotlieb: So you know how I love a sing-along.

[8:42] Eila Mell: I do.

[8:44] Bruce Gotlieb: We'll see what happens come award season.

[8:47] Eila Mell: Maybe.

[8:47] Bruce Gotlieb: It might be tough just because it's such a packed season.

[8:50] Eila Mell: I mean, it is. It really, really is.

[8:51] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm not sure how much love it's gonna get, but we'll see.

[8:54] Eila Mell: That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure either, but they're tapping their little hearts out there at Studio 54.

[8:59] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, maybe it'll get a choreography nomination.

[9:02] Eila Mell: Maybe.

[9:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, maybe that's one of its stronger chances. Who knows?

[9:07] Eila Mell: Well, all right. So is it time for J. Harrison Ghee?

[9:11] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, I was trying to think of a segue.

[9:14] Eila Mell: It's always time for J.

[9:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Right? But they don't need a segue.

[9:17] Eila Mell: No, it's always the right time.

[9:18] Bruce Gotlieb: So that's right. Here we go.

[9:23] Eila Mell: So, Bruce, we have such a great guest on. It's J. Harrison Ghee, Tony winner.

[9:31] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right. Um, let's just get started because I really can't wait for this conversation. There's so much to talk about, so let's dive in.

[9:40] Eila Mell: I know. Thank you so much for joining us.

[9:42] J. Harrison Ghee: All right. Thank you for having me.

[9:44] Eila Mell: Let's get into it.

[9:45] J. Harrison Ghee: Let's chat.

[9:47] Eila Mell: Do it. I know. The last time we spoke, we had just won a Tony Award.

[9:51] J. Harrison Ghee: For Some Like It Hot.

[9:53] Eila Mell: No big deal.

[9:54] J. Harrison Ghee: Casual thing.

[9:55] Eila Mell: Yeah. And not only that, hadn't you just been to the White House too?

[9:57] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah, I won a Tony and flew directly to the White House the next morning.

[10:04] Eila Mell: Wow. I mean, who gets to do that besides you?

[10:08] J. Harrison Ghee: Just cash.

[10:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. One of my favorite questions for Tony, not nominated Broadway artists is do you remember where you were? Were you watching live? Did your, you know, did your person call you and say, oh, by the way, guess what?

[10:22] J. Harrison Ghee: I can never forget when I got nominated because I was actually at the Today Show. Oh, we were performing that morning for Some Like It Hot. And the night before I had gone to the Met Gala and then woke up early that morning. I think we were called at like 5 a.m. And we were sitting on the floor and they were on air, and I happened to have my phone on me. And I like checked it just to see like nominations coming in. And by that time we had gotten best musical nomination. And me and Christian were nominated as best lead actor. And it was like, but we had to be quiet because they were literally taping on air.

[11:01] Eila Mell: Oh my gosh.

[11:02] J. Harrison Ghee: And like a hold of it and then we're looking like, what is going on over there? And so they, you know, went to commercial, and then we were all screaming, and my cast was literally surrounding me. And I just like they just poured so much love on me. I can never forget that moment.

[11:17] Eila Mell: That's amazing. So was it like the Jets and the Sharks where you know one camp was you and one camp was Christian?

[11:23] J. Harrison Ghee: No, no, like literally, like when I said it, I looked, Christian was one of the first people I looked at when I said, like, you know, told everybody. And he had this big smile. Christian has always been like a big brother, just very much like in the show. And so he was so proud for me and was the biggest cheerleader throughout the entire process. And I couldn't have asked for a better partner in crime.

[11:48] Eila Mell: Yeah, that's it's so nice.

[11:50] J. Harrison Ghee: Yes, absolutely. And today's an exciting day because the Oscar nominations came out today.

[11:55] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right.

[11:57] J. Harrison Ghee: Like I and see, even things like I saw Cynthia, like she's on a flight, and she's like putting orders. She's like, beautiful, like it's beautiful, those moments where you're like, you put in this work and you hope not just that it's acknowledged and that it's received well, but you hope that it's effective.

[12:17] Eila Mell: Right.

[12:18] J. Harrison Ghee: And to be acknowledged is like the cherry on top that really just sends it over the edge and makes it that much more special.

[12:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. And yay, for Paul Tazwell, who got nominated for the city.

[12:28] J. Harrison Ghee: I love that man so much too because he's also incredible. We worked together at Paper Mill Playhouse when I did The Sting, and he takes such care with his work, and it is like so beautiful to just see him continue to shine, continue to be honored for his incredible, brilliant mind because those costumes are so delicious in that movie. Like they're so good. And the Easter eggs, he put in, you know, just the detail. Just so interesting and such great work.

[12:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[12:58] J. Harrison Ghee: And I said Zyla too when we when we saw Death Becomes Her. I said, Well, Paul's not having a bad year.

[13:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[13:04] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah.

[13:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[13:08] Eila Mell: Do you remember, speaking of memories, the moment where whether you saw a show as a child or whatever led you to say, I need this is it. This is my life is on stage. My life is performance.

[13:20] J. Harrison Ghee: Honestly. It was seeing the national tour of Hairspray. My show choir teacher took us to see that and Aida. We saw a tour of that. And both of those shows seeing these people on stage just moved me in a way that I was like, oh, right, I do this too. And I feel like I can be effective in this. And it pushed me to make that leap because before then I was gonna do PR or do communications or something safe and play it like close to the vest. But then I was like, no, I've been given something to do something with. So I'm gonna step out on faith and try.

[14:01] Eila Mell: It's such a leap, like you said, because so few people get to actually work consistently. Was your family behind you? Did they support you in this decision? Or was it just you?

[14:11] J. Harrison Ghee: My father definitely didn't understand what I was doing. He, as a person of education, he had a PhD in administration and a master's in philosophy and history and wanted me to go do something in math and science and, you know, as all parents want you to do the safe route. My mom wanted me to be the next Johnny Cochran. She was like, you like to argue with people, go be a lawyer.

[14:35] Eila Mell: That makes sense.

[14:36] J. Harrison Ghee: Right. And so at first they were definitely like, what are you doing? But as my career started to progress and unfold, they both were just like, oh, we kind of can't deny this. It's clearly what you're meant to do. It's nice when it works out that way that you're proven right and especially at such a young age.

[14:56] J. Harrison Ghee: Cause I I had, you know, booked my first job before graduating school. I was moving off to Tokyo to work at Disney and my dad was like, oh I guess there's mud on my face, but it smells good.

[15:10] Bruce Gotlieb: That's a good dad.

[15:12] J. Harrison Ghee: So before we really jump in, I have one very important question to ask you. Who designed your outfit for the Met Gala?

[15:21] J. Harrison Ghee: Oh Howie B, a designer out here in LA. Amazing. And they had uh created a look for me uh for another event and jokingly said to me, hey, if you go back to the Met Gala, I'd be happy to like so that's a great, you know, if the invitation comes in, I'll hit you up. Um so when that invitation came, I said, all right, let's get back to work. I'd love to be able to trust people to do what they do. Because Howie and I still have never met in person. They live in LA. I was in New York. I had sitting in my measurements, and they had their husband fly to New York with the entire look. It was full white glove service. It was at the last minute. But we collaborated, you know, thank God for technology to be able to check in and and keep you know the process going. But yeah, it it came together. I was so like filled with joy. I get to be black, queer joy in the world. And that's not something I take lightly.

[16:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[16:23] J. Harrison Ghee: And that even at a place like the Met Gala where everyone is so stoic and like, oh, let's give you guys. We can also enjoy ourselves and give a fantasy. Like think outside the box and be more than what we allow ourselves to be, like, really think beyond. So that's what that and how that came together. Especially at the Met Gala. It's you know, it's fashion is not serious, it's fun, it's fantasy.

[16:49] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah, and and then to have moments where I ran into Erica Badu and she was like, Oh, this is the look of the night. You did this. Like I like between her and Queen Latifah both telling me that, I was like, I wear I'm going home now. I've done all I can do.

[17:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, you kinda, yeah, you kind of win life, not just the night.

[17:09] J. Harrison Ghee: Oh, for sure. And then yeah, Erica Badu posted me on her Insta story of like favorite look, and I was like, Oh, she really meant that.

[17:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, wow. That's really nice.

[17:18] J. Harrison Ghee: I mean, that yeah, she really meant it. And then of course, everyone knows you wore Jerome Lamar to the Tony Awards and was just stunning in that blue dress.

[17:29] Bruce Gotlieb: Everything.

[17:29] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah, thank you. So um, you're in my Tony book, just for the people who don't know that. Do you love the picture I chose? Because oh my god, it's such a gorgeous. Even if you don't buy the book, just look at it because Jay looks so stunning. And this photo is my one of my favorite photos in the whole book. I literally just every now and then I'll just open it and look at it and it fills me with such emotion. Um that night clearly was so special, but just everything about it. Again, the entire award season, I felt wrapped in love and support.

[18:04] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah. And I kept saying to people, I was like, okay, y'all can't hype me up like this. Please don't it's a lot of pressure. Don't do this. Like I'm kind of just like do my job and stay grounded and like. But everywhere I turned, people were just loving knowing me and pouring into me and really just supporting me in such a beautiful way.

[18:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Do you think the conversation about I guess identity has changed even in the couple of years since Sun Like It Hot opened?

[18:36] J. Harrison Ghee: It's ever evolving and ever changing. Um, and people have a lot to say uh in regards to that. And it is something that I have to remain vigilant in because it it's who I am. It's not just what I do.

[18:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[18:50] J. Harrison Ghee: And I try to do everything in life with intention and purpose, but most importantly with love. And so that is why I took on that role to be able to be a mirror to audiences, to humanity, to open conversation that there's always another way, and we have to take into consideration individuality while remembering it takes a village to raise anyone.

[19:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[19:15] J. Harrison Ghee: And I feel like we've gotten away from that in society of we we say it takes a village to raise a child, but we all need to get back to the child that's within us and allow our village to really raise us. And I think that is what I got to do as Jerry Daphne was allow the village of Sue and her society syncopators and this world of emergency of us trying to save our lives to really raise me and rear me and crack me open to find depths of myself that I didn't allow myself to explore as a character, and then to also show audiences that that was possible for them.

[19:53] J. Harrison Ghee: Just in the past month, a lot has changed. And this is a big responsibility. So if you don't have an answer, that's okay. But what do you say to people who are scared right now about their rights?

[20:05] J. Harrison Ghee: It's unsettling and it's disheartening, but I I stand by the fact that you cannot deny the truth. And the truth is we exist. There's a spectrum of humanity, and no one can take that away from us. You can write legislation and create whatever you desire, the world you think you see, but the reality that exists is already here. And he's always been here.

[20:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly.

[20:34] J. Harrison Ghee: Let's not forget. And we are in a time where there's so much created and falsified, and everything we do is to the poor made up. Everything.

[20:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[20:48] J. Harrison Ghee: And so people are making up what they want. And it's like, okay, you keep making up what you want, and I'm going to keep living who I was created to be. And that was even even in my choice of what category I wanted to be considered in for the Tonies. I said, listen, I'm going to show up as my fullest self, no matter what category you put me in. I know who I am and what I've set out to do. And that's again filled with intention and purpose.

[21:13] Bruce Gotlieb: When that conversation came up, did they ask just for your input or were you able to select or have have a big voice in that discussion?

[21:22] J. Harrison Ghee: They asked specifically which category I wanted to be considered in, how I wanted to be represented. And my answer was that I was going to show up in my fullest version. Again, regardless of where you place me, and I decided to be put in actor, but that is again based on somebody else's compartmentalization of what that means.

[21:42] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[21:42] J. Harrison Ghee: Sure.

[21:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[21:43] J. Harrison Ghee: Well, you know, the the wing, the American Theater Wing, really is very respectful to everyone. And, you know, I'm so happy to be able to say that and mean it.

[21:53] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah. So yeah, it's just a wonderful organization. I think it meant everything to me that that was a conversation brought to me long before any nomination or consideration was brought. It was, hey, where do you see yourself represented? Where do you desire to be representation? And it gave me an opportunity to stand again in my truth and who I am, not only as an artist, but as an activist, as a vessel of change. And so it it the entire process made me have to stand that much firmer in my purpose.

[22:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, and the fact that you could then feel respected because the conversation's happening. And ultimately, that's what we all strive for is just respect and honor of who we are and the art that we're putting forward.

[22:44] J. Harrison Ghee: Hi, this is J. Harrison G. You're listening to Behind the Awards. We'll be right back.

[22:52] Bruce Gotlieb: So we're excited about a project that you have in the works, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Can you talk about it at this point?

[23:00] J. Harrison Ghee: I can talk about our experience in Chicago at the Goodman. People were loving.

[23:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[23:05] J. Harrison Ghee: We we had a beautiful summer at the Goodman. Um, and we got to really again change people in in unexpected ways. They, you know, know the story based on the book and the movie. So great reference material. And then we we gave our version of that, not trying to replicate it, but just drop into this moment in time, come with us and allow us to take you into another place, another world with all of these characters. And it was a beautiful process, and I'm grateful to the creative team, Rob Ashford leading us. This music by Jason Robert Brown that is like delicious in every way. Those kind of like iconic moments where at the 11th hour, Jason Robert Brown wrote me a new song for the show that just like made everything make sense.

Like literally the day before we started tech rehearsal, he wrote this new song, our last studio run, and it just like locked everything into place and really gave us uh an anchor and a foundation to say, okay, we got something. Let's go from here. Um just you know, craft it for you, you know, or for your character.

[24:21] Bruce Gotlieb: That's amazing.

[24:21] J. Harrison Ghee: It it was really special, and it was it came from such a beautiful place of he pulled me aside one morning to just say, Hey, as a cis straight man writing for this black trans queer experience. Can we have a conversation? Give me some grace. I want to ask some questions. I want to just get to know your character better. I want to understand your relationships to these other characters. Um I was just thinking, oh, he'll change some lyrics in another song, or like, you know, change. I didn't know a whole new song was coming. And he came back after lunch and pulled me into a room. And I mean, the first eight bars of the song, I was already in tears.

[25:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, wow.

[25:03] J. Harrison Ghee: Well, wow. And when he played it for everyone else, it was not a dry eye in the room. And our entire run, it was a moment of so many moments of just you felt the room take a collective breath together and a sigh and kind of like sit in the fullness of so much. And that's what's exciting that we get to that's what the kind of art I desire to create that leaves you better than when you came in, and that makes you go out into the world starting conversations that like really opens up like, oh, I'm not sure. Great. Well, go explore that. Go have a conversation.

[25:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[25:44] J. Harrison Ghee: The best shows are ones that you can't stop thinking about days and days after you've seen it.

[25:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[25:50] J. Harrison Ghee: And how amazing that, you know, not only are you originating this role, but your actual sort of DNA is in it because you gave input into who this character is. And now it's it's in the song, and it's you know, it's just part of the character.

[26:04] J. Harrison Ghee: And the same was true for Jerry Daphne, right?

[26:07] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah.

[26:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[26:08] J. Harrison Ghee: And this one even feels much more so of like again, Jason writing this song for me, like no one else has ever sung it.

[26:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[26:16] J. Harrison Ghee: It is, and then asked me to sing that at Carnegie Hall last year, and that was such a special special moment. And I'm just like, these things.

[26:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[26:27] J. Harrison Ghee: It doesn't happen to everybody.

[26:28] Bruce Gotlieb: No, and I and I I try my best to stay in my skin. And I'm so my friends are always like, you stay so calm about everything. And I'm like, because if I thought too hard about it, I would be a puddle of tears all day, every day.

[26:42] Bruce Gotlieb: No, we can't have that.

[26:43] J. Harrison Ghee: But because at what point in your mind, even the the back recesses that you were like Carnegie Hall, let me put that on the list.

[26:58] J. Harrison Ghee: Of course. People always ask, what is your like ultimate goal, your ultimate dream? And truly, the only thing I can say is to that question is always, whatever God will allow, I want to entertain the world in whatever capacity God allows. And that's whatever corner, whatever recess, whatever like opportunity I get, I'm happy to receive it and to be able to do what I do.

[27:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, and hopefully, you know, your dreams will keep evolving as you, you know, as you reach one, then you have another.

[27:27] J. Harrison Ghee: And they are. I was just talking to a friend yesterday of as a kid, you try to imagine yourself at certain ages. You're like, oh, what will I be at 30? What would I be at 40? What will I? And I I'm in this place right now where I'm like, oh, I don't know what I imagined for myself at this age, but now I'm like, okay, this is where I am. Now what's the dream beyond this? Because I thought so many things, and now you're here. Oh, I gotta create a whole new mood board for my life.

[27:57] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right.

[27:58] J. Harrison Ghee: That's right. Like, what is happening? I I gotta dream bigger and beyond, and in places I didn't even imagine.

[28:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[28:07] J. Harrison Ghee: Sure. I mean, that that's the best when you surpass even what you thought was possible.

[28:11] Bruce Gotlieb: So you play a character who was in the movie, obviously, Lady Chablis.

[28:17] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah.

[28:17] Bruce Gotlieb: And that was based on the person who played the role. Tell me about your relationship with this character.

[28:23] J. Harrison Ghee: Lady Chablis, it's funny because I fought her in the sense of when I was doing the workshop, I didn't want it. I was just trying it on for size. And I was like, okay, we'll see what this is. And I I didn't, I didn't have the some like a hot feeling, like I gotta do this. This is for me. Okay. Um but I had to do my research and find her in me, find my connection to her. Um, and in reading her memoir, Hiding My Candy, I got to know her. She passed in 2016. So I never got to meet her in person, but I knew of her, I knew of her legacy and who she was and what she brought to the community. And all I wanted to do was honor that and and respect that and bring truth, my truth to that through that. And so in doing my research and my homework, I was like, oh, we are very much the same doll.

[29:17] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah. Like same mindset, same energy, same perspective of like you can put whatever label and limit you want on me, however, I'm gonna live my truth and stand in that ten toes dial while you continue to be a mess. So go ahead, go right ahead.

[29:32] Bruce Gotlieb: That's great.

[29:33] J. Harrison Ghee: And that was the beauty of communing with her. I pardon my French, but I I call myself a supernatural badass bitch.

[29:43] J. Harrison Ghee: Um, and so I did a lot of communing with her spiritually. Like reading her book. Really, there were a lot of times during the show where I would say lines or do things where I would physically not feel like myself and be like, oh, that was fully her just coming through. That is something I feel like I really do tap into when I get into my work. And so it was beautiful to have these moments of really allowing her to just like flow through me and to be the vessel of her story. And then to get people from her life, because so many people from Savannah, Georgia, came up to see the show. The mayor came, like people who were her managers who worked with her at the club, like dear friends of hers. One of her dear friends actually did our PR and our imaging for the show.

And they also were the same person who did our imaging for Some Like It Hot. And she had written me on Instagram and we got to meet in person. And she was saying, you know, as a trans woman and being friends with Shabli, she was like, I was nervous when I, you know, saw that they were doing the show and like who's gonna honor my friend. And she was like, and then I saw that you were doing it, and I knew she was in safe hands, and she got to see the show. And she got so emotional, and she was like, I felt like I was back in the club seeing my friend again. So, like, thank you for honoring my friend. And that again is all I could wish for of like these people who knew her personally, who grew up watching her in the clubs, who worked with her, her managers and them came to the show, and they were like, Yeah, we see her, and she would have been so proud.

[31:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Was there video of her that you could watch also?

[31:24] J. Harrison Ghee: So you could. Oh, yeah. I took everything I could to just like soak up her energy, take her in and to honor her. And then she reads her own book on Spotify. Her voice is like reading her memoir. Yeah. And so it's beautiful to get to uh really just like absorb her.

[31:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Did you stay away from watching the movie so it wouldn't influence you, or did you embrace no?

[31:51] J. Harrison Ghee: I will always use every resource possible and allow whatever settles to settle and to use whatever I can as inspiration, as fuel, as information to inform my performance.

[32:05] Bruce Gotlieb: You made your Broadway debut in Kinky Boots, is that right?

[32:08] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah, yeah.

[32:10] Bruce Gotlieb: How long into your career as an actor did Broadway happen for you?

[32:15] J. Harrison Ghee: Oh god, that was 10 years after I moved to New York. I made my debut in Kinky Boots in 2017, and I moved to New York in 2007. I went off, worked at Tokyo Disney, did cruise ships for a while, did the tour of Kinky Boots, and then transferred to the Broadway company. And that was one of the moments in my life where I was speechless when Jerry Mitchell himself was like, We want to take you to Broadway as Lola. And I was like, wait, huh? Who? Yeah, right. I know. Dream. Because even with that show itself, I started that show as a swing and a Lola understudy and assistant dance captain, and then worked my way up and literally saw that show from every angle.

[32:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[32:57] J. Harrison Ghee: I taught people the show. I, you know, swung all of the roles. My favorite thing was to be like be a factory worker at the matinee and Lola at the evening show, or like, you know, to get to switch it up. Oh but then to get to yeah, truly. But that's like my brain already works as a swing. If I watch something long enough, I'm gonna learn it.

[33:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[33:18] J. Harrison Ghee: So that was my first time swinging and say, Oh, you just want to pay me to learn all these parts? Great, wonderful. Thank you. Because I was doing it anyway.

[33:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. When you're taking over like a Lola, so it has, you know, Billy's DNA and whoever else might have played it before you. So there's some of that that you obviously have to keep for yourself, but then you also have to put Jay's magic on it.

[33:41] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah. Do you find that a more challenging than originating?

[33:46] J. Harrison Ghee: No, because I took notes from Billy, and Billy always said, You steal the good shit. Like you see stuff from somebody else, and you take what is good from them, you see what works, and find how that works in you for your performance. There's no shame in that. There's no shame in saying, like, oh, I see that that reads with audiences. Now, how can I do that? Sure. And then that's the fun of keeping it fresh. Of all right, we get eight times a week to live this life to play this role. And I'm the kind of person I don't like doing the same thing over and over again the same way. So I find them, you know, are like, oh, I saw Callum do this one thing. Let me try that in my Lola. We're like, oh, when I saw Wayne do it, I like when he made this choice. So like it just gives me more to pull from, um, and to play and to honor and to live in. It's like fashion, you know. If a trend works for you, then follow it. And if it doesn't, then don't forget about it.

[34:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly.

[34:47] J. Harrison Ghee: Yeah. Are there any dream roles that you hope to play on Broadway? Or anywhere else?

[34:52] J. Harrison Ghee: My first answer to that is always I haven't created it yet. Yeah. Because now that I I've gotten to a place where I'm like, oh no, I like originate roles. I'm like, all right. I haven't even dreamed of the dream roles yet. That story. Um, but then things of expanding how we do theater. Like, like I would love to play Motormouth Maybell in Hairspray. Mm-hmm. It's like if Edda turned black and be why not? Why like there's there are no rules? And if we are if we are the artists and the innovators and the creators that we are, why do we limit ourselves in what stories and how we tell the stories we tell?

[35:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[35:32] J. Harrison Ghee: And now that there's been rumors and the actual articles saying it's coming back.

[35:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, so now you've said it.

[35:40] J. Harrison Ghee: So hopefully it's spoken into existence. You know, all the things. It's like Mike Isaacson, the producer at the Muni, who gave me the opportunity to play Velma Kelly in Chicago. Yeah. It's things like that that we are able to really change how we do this thing called musical theater and shift society and humanity in how we do it. And it touches my heart to have moments where audience members come up to me after shows and they're like, I never felt more seen or more represented, or like I give them hope or inspiration that anything is possible.

[36:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that's a huge deal.

[36:20] J. Harrison Ghee: I've desired that way of thinking my entire life. Yeah. It it's something that I was kind of reprimanded for as a kid, of like, uh stay in your place, be quiet, don't do that, don't say that. That's not and it's like, but there's clearly another way, and nobody's choosing it. We're choosing destruction or lies or falsehoods, and right. So why would we choose that when we could choose a better way?

[36:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Mm-hmm. Do you think casting people are learning from you that you know that there is no one box to put someone in? So do you feel like you're getting seen for all kinds of different roles that maybe wouldn't have happened years ago?

[37:03] J. Harrison Ghee: Yes. Slowly but surely. And I think I even have to be more vocal about what I desire and not be afraid to say, hey, I'm capable of even more than what you see me as. Right. And I love opportunities to show people what's possible. Even with things like Kinky Boots, like little things of I was the first black person to do a lot of things in that show. Like there was never a first black girl to do the jump split, the first black union. Like it's little stuff. And I would jokingly say I was the Rosa Parks of Kinky Boots. Because it was just like I was the first black everything. But it was fun to be like, I don't know why we're limiting ourselves. Like this, this is a little choice we're not, we're not choosing to make.

[37:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[37:49] J. Harrison Ghee: For the sake of what? Right. What are we protecting? What are we preserving? When we can show a more expansive way of telling stories. Yeah, when people say, Oh, you could never do that, I always say, Well, until someone does it, then you can do it. And I and I've had that perspective, especially when it comes to fashion and how I present myself. People always say, Oh, I could never wear that. And my response is, well, because you haven't freed yourself to see yourself. Right. You haven't given yourself the permission and the safety and the availability to play in that area. Right. And it's okay, not everyone has to do that. But if you want to do that, there's no reason that you shouldn't.

[38:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. So we heard something exciting. We heard that you're going to be at Broadway Con.

[38:35] J. Harrison Ghee: Yes.

[38:36] Bruce Gotlieb: So with Shalisa.

[38:38] J. Harrison Ghee: Salicia Thomas, yes?

[38:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[38:40] J. Harrison Ghee: I'm so excited to be chatting with her. Have you guys worked together in the past?

[38:44] Bruce Gotlieb: No, we've never worked together.

[38:46] J. Harrison Ghee: It's funny. Talk about the award season of Some Like It Hot. She was one of those people that like stopped me on the street one day just in passing it. She's like, hey, I know you don't know me, but I want you to know that there are people out here who are rooting for you who want nothing but the best for you. And like, we got your back. We love you. We love you so much. Amazing. And it was like the sweetest thing in passing. And she's always just giving me that energy anytime I've ever seen her. So when I asked to like sit down and chat with her came, I was like, oh, absolutely, please.

[39:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, well, that's amazing. So just so you know, Bruce and I are doing a panel with Jack and Sergio from Real Women Have Curves in that room right before you guys.

[39:27] J. Harrison Ghee: Oh my God.

[39:28] Bruce Gotlieb: So we'll see you that day.

[39:30] J. Harrison Ghee: Oh yeah. I can't wait. So we're so excited. So hopefully all of our listeners will go to both of our panels because they're both gonna be incredible.

[39:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh back to back. One stop shop. Just stay right there.

[39:40] J. Harrison Ghee: That's right. All you have to do is sit.

[39:43] Bruce Gotlieb: And that's better than having to move around.

[39:45] J. Harrison Ghee: Okay. Sit and be blessed.

[39:47] Bruce Gotlieb: That's it.

[39:49] J. Harrison Ghee: That's it. Absolutely. Is there anything that you can talk about that's coming?

[39:54] Bruce Gotlieb: I because we know you have to keep a lid on many things that are in the works.

[39:59] J. Harrison Ghee: Oh god. Can you tell us anything that we don't already know? There's so much. When I tell you, there are so many things floating in the air right now, and I wish they were just laying so I could be like, I want to scream. I know. I know.

[40:12] J. Harrison Ghee: Um, but this has also been such a wonderful time that is so necessary that, like this past year, uh, I mean, it is in our culture to be like, Well, what's next? What's next? And my answer to that over this past year has been rest. That has been because you can't pour from an empty cup, and I had to acknowledge that I have been going for years, even with the pandemic. When I was like, Oh, I thought that was time to you're like, No, we were living an act of trauma. That was its own thing. And like going back out of that, back into work and back into hustle mode. It was like, oh, I didn't allow myself to sit in the fullness of what I had accomplished.

[40:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[40:52] J. Harrison Ghee: And I needed a second to like really let that sucker punch me. Um and so this past year has been a lot of processing, a lot of receiving and allowing the fullness and the weight of things to just like land in my spirit. So it's like, okay, great. You did that. Now fill the cup back up and be prepared for whatever is next. And I'm excited for opportunities to continue to expand as a human, as an artist, as an activist, and to activate myself more. We always want to be doing more and want to be giving more, but I also want to do that continually with intention and purpose, but always again steeped in love. So there's so much coming. Um, and I can't wait for the opportunity to share more.

[41:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, you'll have to come back when you can announce the next thing.

[41:48] J. Harrison Ghee: Yes.

[41:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Because you know, we we love to get that out there. But I do I remember running into you at a reading for something. Um, and you were saying, you know, by choice, I'm taking a rest. And I thought that's a really healthy thing. Many people would not make that choice, and that that's pretty smart. Once you're here, you're family. So anything you have, we're happy to share it out there so everyone can come see you, enjoy and revel in your artistry. Cause when you go to a show that you're in, it takes you to a whole nother place. People are allowed to escape a little and live in your world.

[42:23] J. Harrison Ghee: Thank you. I enjoy that. And I'm just I'm humbled that people enjoy living in my world and that people respond so beautifully. And it is it is humbling to get to again be black queer joy at a time such as this in a world in which we live. That's again not something I take lightly. And so every opportunity I get to show up and be the fullest version of myself um is a privilege and an honor. And I'm grateful for opportunities to just share. So thank you for having me, truly.

[42:57] Bruce Gotlieb: You know, I'm sure being all of those things might not growing up have been the easiest thing always. And maybe you didn't get the best response, but it's so nice now that you receive so much love for just being who you are. And really you are making changes in the world, and it's so important.

[43:14] J. Harrison Ghee: Thank you. It is recently posted. I keep going back to Tokyo. It's a very special place to me. And for whatever reason, every time I go, it like opens a portal in me and just like fills me back up in such a way. And I posted on my Instagram of me like crying on the plane of just full of gratitude of thinking 15 years after going to that place to start my career, to keep returning there, to keep being received with such love, to be celebrated and to continue to be such an inspiration and uh hope and a light for people is like I could I literally could like weep right now. Um sorry, but it is don't be. I'm just grateful again to get to be all that I am in the world and that that is effective.

[44:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, the world loves you, it's very effective, and you know, we couldn't be happier to know you to have you on our show. I hope that everybody will come see you at Broadway Con, we'll follow your Instagram feed because it's fun.

[44:22] J. Harrison Ghee: That's right, and we will see you next time on Behind the Awards.

[44:25] J. Harrison Ghee: Thank you for having me. So happy to be here.

[44:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, such a pleasure.