This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] David Rockwell: It's profoundly moving that theater only exists when there's an audience there. It is an inert form unless we're together as a community, and we're now living in a world where we're not able to do that. And it really puts a magnifying glass on the fact that design for the theater is meant to exist over the time of the show. It's not meant to exist to glorify just design, or it's not meant to be a coffee table book, although there's nothing wrong with coffee table books, but it gets its impact from existing in context of all these other things around movement and transition and has a beginning, middle, and end, as does life.

[0:45] Hal Luftig: Hi everyone. This is Hal Luftig with my Broadway Podcast Network show, Broadway Biz, where every episode I will chat with my friends, some of the top theater professionals in the business about the business of Broadway. You'll learn to raise cash to open your smash. You'll be all the rage from the patient stage. In all time you'll know the business of show, the greatest of there is. So join our squad as we unplug our love things Broadway. Let's get busy with the Broadway Biz.

[1:37] Hal Luftig: David Rockwell is a Tony Award-winning set designer who has worked on over 60 productions. I had the pleasure of working with David first on Legally Blonde and then on Kinky Boots. I have so many questions for David. So let's dive right into this episode of Broadway Biz. Hey David, how are you doing today?

[1:57] David Rockwell: Good morning.

[1:59] Hal Luftig: Good morning, Hal.

[2:00] David Rockwell: I'm hanging in there. You have to grade on a curve right now. So grading on a curve, I'm healthy and busy and worried about the world, but staying as busy and engaged as is possible, which seems like the way to do it right now.

[2:15] Hal Luftig: David, I just wanted to tell our listeners about the first time you and I met, actually met and sat down and had a real conversation. I don't know if you remember this.

[2:24] David Rockwell: Well, you took me to Bar American just so we could have lunch and get to know each other. Do you remember this?

[2:33] Hal Luftig: And it was we went there because it was one of the beautiful restaurants that you had designed. And one of the first things you said when we sat down was guess how much this cost?

[2:48] David Rockwell: And I said, I thought to myself, wow, well, if he says it that way, it's gotta be a lot of money, right? So I went, um, five million dollars to me.

[2:59] David Rockwell: And you said, how about try closer to 20? And I almost fell over and I said, David, we're never gonna build a set for 20 million dollars. Do you remember that?

[3:11] David Rockwell: So I remember the conversation. I remember the content a little bit differently. What I remember, the thing about Bar American that there were many things about it. One, it was a restaurant, you know, which I loved, loved the world of restaurants and designing restaurants in the theater district, which I love more than anything. So it brought together my two worlds in an interesting way.

[3:35] David Rockwell: And the thing about Bar American, there was that one wood screen in the entrance that we had made in Mexico, a carved wood screen, beautiful craftsmanship, where we found the artist who made it as opposed to going through a mill worker and a subcontractor. So, what I remember being proud about that I wanted to speak to you about, and anyone who went in there, is that you have to put the money where it's gonna show and create kind of an emotional impact for the customer.

[4:05] David Rockwell: And that was like a six thousand dollar, quite inexpensive wall for an 18-foot tall curved carved wall. So that just goes to show you designers and producers remember different parts of stories.

[4:21] Hal Luftig: That's a truth. You remember it being over budget, and I remember it being a great deal. You know, that is very true. Next show we do, I'm gonna remember that. Um hey David, so can you talk a little bit about what was your journey into architecture in the first place? How did you get to where you are now?

[4:43] David Rockwell: Well, it wasn't anything linear, and I think like many things, when you look at something in the rearview mirror, you're able to pick out a path and a journey that isn't really visible when you're in it. There were sort of moments growing up in which there were things that really engaged my instinct to design. That was an early instinct that started with community theater on the Jersey Shore in Deal, New Jersey, where my mom had helped create a community theater there.

[5:15] David Rockwell: In the summer, when that was active, everyone in town, everyone in my family, I had four older brothers. Everyone turned like from a very private suburb into this very engaged, acting out community. Really like Waiting for Guffman, which I didn't see until much, much later and hadn't come out too much later. But I was amazed at the transformation of this little gymnasium based on storytelling and design.

[5:45] David Rockwell: So those were things that engaged me. And I think by really almost my DNA was about making things. And so I was always making low-tech playgrounds and spook houses and carnivals out of boxes, and in theater was a chance to see, well, you can actually do this in a way that moves people emotionally. We then pretty suddenly, when I was 12, planned to move to Guadalajara, Mexico, me and one other brother.

[6:13] David Rockwell: And right before we did that, I had my first memorable day in New York City, where there were a number of things that we did that had been really seminal in focusing my love of New York, which you know, I look out at the city now, for instance, Hal, and I think about my love is the relationship of theater and architecture. And in that day, when I was 12, we went to Schrafft's for lunch.

[6:42] David Rockwell: Oh, remember that?

[6:43] Hal Luftig: I do.

[6:44] David Rockwell: And I had never had a meal that wasn't involving five people competing, five boys competing for the last piece of chicken. So it was an elevated experience for me. So I started to research all that. We moved to Mexico, and you know, I was dropped into a world where theater wasn't contained within boxes, but the public spaces were incredibly theatrical, marketplaces, bull rings, mariachis.

[7:28] David Rockwell: And it was just the greatest gift possible. And I think it developed my interest in large scale performance in public space, in light, just the quality of light. And you know, when you're working with the design team, light is critical, and it's one of the elements that's most significant to me. So in Mexico, I tried a lot of different things that interested me.

[7:56] David Rockwell: Actually, it was a community theater there too, that I worked with. But I started to get interested in architecture specifically based on some of the new cast and place concrete buildings that were happening. It was quite experimental in the late 60s in Guadalajara, and wanted to be back near New York, and so luckily decided to try architecture with the idea that that might be studying something that could contain all the various things that interested me.

[8:29] David Rockwell: And I've got to tell you, remember my first week at architecture school at Syracuse, coming right from Guadalajara, Mexico, with full on Mexican sandals and driving up from Mexico on my yellow dots, and my first week, we had this very severe Bauhaus professor named Siegfried Snyder, who gave us a project. And he said, so your first project we met as a studio right out of Mexico was to go out in nature and draw something.

[9:05] David Rockwell: So I walked out on the campus and I was drawing one of my sandals at the base of a tree. And I looked to my left, and this other student, Jeff Hill, who I sort of stayed in touch with, had drawn the entire campus like an MC Escher panorama. And I looked at that and I thought, okay, this may be a problem because I'm sketching a sandal, and this guy's drawn the whole campus.

[9:31] David Rockwell: Then that night we were all invited to hear Buckminster Fuller speak at Hendrick's Chapel. And it went over every student, you know, Buckminster Fuller was speaking such a high level, I couldn't quite understand how it related to what we were studying. And I went into Siegfried Snyder the next day, almost in tears, saying, you know, this may be a career mistake because you know, Jeff Hill's drawn the campus.

[9:58] David Rockwell: Buckminster Fuller's talking about stuff I don't understand. And he looked at me and he said, look, you know, it just may be that you may have less to unlearn than other people, because design is about discovering and just start with where you are. And it was the most amazing reset for me creatively. And it sort of stuck with me that not knowing the answers before you begin something, but being willing to really research this and delve into it and have your own point of view is a good way to approach design.

[10:28] Hal Luftig: Wow. What that is an amazing piece of philosophy, if you want to call it that, that's I think that's applicable to almost everything in life.

[10:39] David Rockwell: I think it is.

[10:41] Hal Luftig: Learn something, yeah.

[10:42] David Rockwell: That that's amazing. There's an amazing gift he gave me. So, David, let's jump to theater a little bit. So, when you are designing a show, how do you visualize the physical world and what that should be as the story takes place, as you begin this design?

[11:02] David Rockwell: We begin every design with lots and lots of research, going back to the theory of not wanting to solve the problem before you know what it is, I think to serve the piece. The research can take many, many forms. The research starts out by really studying the play or the book and the music, some in-depth research into the locations called for, thinking about I find the most interesting moments to start to shape in designing a show are transitions.

[11:35] David Rockwell: You know, transitions are going back to the relationship of theater and architecture, every building, when you open that door and move through, you're discovering a new world. In theater, you have an audience sitting in place where as they come into the theater and either the curtain rises or there's a set on stage, you have a chance to introduce the story in a way that really serves the piece.

[12:01] David Rockwell: And you know, that also comes from lots of conversation with directors. Because I'm always amazed, Hal, that for any memorable moment in the theater, there's 20 artists who have put some mark in that moment. Choreography, lighting, tech director, music, costumes, the automation crew, the actors, clearly, that I think as a set designer, one of the things you get to ultimately do is create the world that all of that tech takes place in.

[12:37] David Rockwell: And so you do all of that research, you meet with your team, and you try and find a way to set that story in a way that is compelling and flexible. I often look for from a director of the writing team and the producing team to articulate, you know, what's the emotional journey? Where are we gonna be at the end of the show versus the beginning and how can the set help set that story?

[13:09] David Rockwell: I think it's profoundly moving that theater only exists when there's an audience there. It is an inert form unless we're together as a community, and we're now living in a world where we're not able to do that. And it really puts a magnifying glass on the fact that design for the theater is meant to exist over the time of the show. It's not meant to exist to glorify just design, or it's not meant to be a coffee table book, although there's nothing wrong with coffee table books, but it gets its impact from existing in context of all these other things around movement and transition and has a beginning, middle, and end, as does life.

[13:53] David Rockwell: So I think it's one of the most amazing groups of artists to work with, and just such a privilege that I've gotten to sort of move what I do into that direction as well.

[14:04] Hal Luftig: Wow. Um so David, you'd mentioned that you have a dialogue, and we'll get to the authors and director in a moment, but do you actually, is there a moment where you sit down with the other designers, light costume, where you think about things like, or even the choreographer, where you think about movement and what the lights are going to look like, what the costumes are going to look like, sound that inform the design of your set?

[14:30] David Rockwell: There are, and that pace is usually set by the director, and it's different in different shows and different processes, but you know, the relationship of the design team, costume, set and lighting is so intensely interwoven. Generally, we will start with the director and the choreographer, you know, have conversations about how things move. How things move, are they actor driven, are they automated? What are the big emotional moments we have to serve in the piece? So after that, in many cases, we will meet very early on with a lighting designer. We try to take into account, you know, creating a set that's lightable. So upfront taking into account the fact that you know the lighting designer is really the set designer's best friend.

He's the lighting designer, sort of the cinematographer of the stage picture, in that if there's no light on it, you're not gonna see it. So creating something that can be lit and that can in many cases become a light fixture. And then we meet with the costume designer very early on to look at palettes and what they'll care about is what are the palettes we're using and how does that allow them to stand out or blend in. Because ultimately you don't want a physical world in which the attention isn't on the action it needs to be. So you know, and in that you try and agree on a strategy, there's always a concern about real estate. There's never enough real estate in Broadway theaters for the sets, costumes, and lighting. So there is a conversation and a series of compromises, and you have to work together if the show is going to physically be able to get on its feet.

[16:34] Hal Luftig: Completely agree. And then there's a whole slew of other amazing professionals, props, as you know from Kinky Boots, incredibly important, special effects, tech director. Everyone sort of has to be on the same page to have those moments seem seamless and easy. Well, David, it's just the thrust of this show, which is called Broadway Biz, is to try and understand how the economics of Broadway meets the artistic side, you know, of the business. So I was wondering when you have a meeting to navigate the actual budget with the director and the producer. Can you talk about a little bit of what that's like for you and how you navigate that process?

[17:20] David Rockwell: You know, there's so many factors to take into account, and with each show we learn more and more about how to create the healthiest possible future for a show. And so budget is a major factor, what it costs to make, what it costs to install, what it costs in time to install, because time really is incredibly expensive. And then what it costs to run is a factor that's very similar to if you look at a restaurant, there's what the fixed costs are, what the food costs are. So if you're creating a piece of theater that needs to run at 85% because of all of the costs of running, our experience is that is as unhealthy and dangerous for the show as the physical thing costing too much to build. So then you get around to what are the things you have to have?

And there's the things you have to have, there's the things you'd like to have. And then there's I think things that fall into the category of those extra incredibly memorable moments that maybe disproportionately use resources. I do remember all the way back to Hairspray, one of my early meetings with Jack and Jerry is I had the room filled with images of every moment of the show in our first meeting, a little too over-eager. And you know, Jack's advice was why don't we take everything out of the room to begin with, except the things that make you fall in love with Tracy Turnblad? Let's start with what are the physical things that emphasize that. So that started with her bed elevated and that drop of the people coming up behind her in those form stone buildings that came in of the people from Baltimore who were part of her life.

So I think there's what do you physically have to have? How can you build it so it doesn't have a disproportionate amount of running cost? And then trying to use those resources so that there's some highlights and lowlights. And that, I mean, that's just something I feel a designer can continue to push for is have those moments that are magic.

[19:54] David Rockwell: And I want to just now transition into the same kind of question before the tour. So when you're imagining a set or the world in which this story will take place and the people in it will take place, do you ever think about okay now realistically, if this thing is going to tour, this is how we would have to modify that? When does that question about touring a show come into play in the set designer's mind?

[20:28] David Rockwell: That is such a hard question because, you know, there's two very different schools of thought. There are some shows you always have that in the back of your mind, but keep in mind even designing a show to go to New York, if you don't know what theater you're going into, you're in some ways taking a look at the range of potential theaters, looking at all their limitations and creating a set that works within any of those limitations. So you're already taking your thinking and saying, well, we're gonna make it work for these various stage depths. Sometimes you know the theater and you can have more freedom about that. I found directors and producers who have a point of view of let's really get this to land in an amazing way in New York, and then we'll find a way to reinvent it for the road.

Or let's come up with a solution that takes into account hard scenery, takes up a lot of truck space. And let's see if we can't from the beginning take it into account. So I don't think there's one clear answer. I think one of the best examples I can think of was the tour of Legally Blonde, which was in, as you know, in New York, a physically big show that had the world of Harvard and Elle's kind of pink fantasy world, and then many other worlds in between. That was a case that we created what we needed to create in New York and on tour, a lot of the invention was around Jerry being willing to have things be actor-driven so that the deck became less expensive, much less automation in the deck.

And we used a lot of the lighting trusses for those moments when people would fly in. We doubled up, if you can double up the use of one thing, lighting and scenic. But the other thing with a tour is you really have to take into account the size of the tour, the length of the stay. And you don't quite know that when you're doing the Broadway show, you don't know where that's gonna land. So, but it is one of those things you want to take into account, trying to think of another good example. Well, with Kinky Boots, which is an example you know well, we knew that the treadmill solution, which you know, we tried originally to use available technology, which didn't exist in treadmills, so we had to make something that was variable speed, actor-driven, and safe.

So that was something that we developed that we knew would be a part of any production, so it had to be compact and movable. And then the environment went from hard to some strategically soft stretch pieces. Also, the other thing about Kinky Boots is there was something about the very believable world of that factory that emphasized the amazing story. So it was anchored in a physical reality with lots of research into what those factories looked like, and then those machines, which were cast fiberglass versions of machines that were light, were extraordinarily realistic, and it not only paid off for the audience, but it does things that props do that most audiences don't realize is it invested the cast. So that cast, each one loved their machine, and that gave a kind of reality to what the ensemble was doing, which was one of Jerry's main goals.

[23:58] Hal Luftig: You know, David, let's stay on Kinky Boots for a sec. Let's talk about that for a second and the design of that. Earlier in the program, you had mentioned the lighting designer, how he lights the set, and you know, vice versa. And I do remember I worked on a show that will go on nameless, where the light design was always dark. It was, you know, like the whole thing was like you could barely see anyone's and I finally said to the lighting designer, why is it so dark? You know, I mean, I can't see. He said, Would you really want me to highlight that ugly set? That's and I laughed. But I, but you know, I want to tie that to the question I'm about to ask. In Kinky, you know, if you think about it, the set wasn't a colorful pop-out like it was for Hairspray.

It was a factory, and we never really left the factory. What was the process for you in creating that particular set? That was basically a factory. And how did you meet those challenges that you talked about about having an audience invested in the world you've created?

[25:09] David Rockwell: You know, such a great story and such an amazing score. So starting out just working with you and Cindy and Daryl and Jerry, you know, there was a level of passion about it that, and I think that sort of the team responds to that passion. So we did a huge amount of obsessive research, first of all, looking at factories on stage. So there were other examples. So we wanted to look at other examples where factories had been done on stage, and we knew for sure that we didn't want the cartoon caricature, and I'm not saying cartoon pejoratively, but what be the right the sort of exaggerated reality of a musical factory, which many musicals fell into, like The Pajama Game that was not meant to be. We also didn't want Donmar, you know, black brick back wall.

So one of the things we worked on was creating a very compressed world. So the side walls angling in created a compressed world in which the cast felt huge and it was almost like a kind of magic box that things could expand out of. And we had worked with Ken Posner a lot. And I do think understanding lighting designers' needs and really understanding that giving them a chance to have a seat at the table about what the main scenic decisions are, help you enormously. So if you remember above the brick, we had those transom windows. Those were inspired by one day I was walking on the High Line, and there was an art installation, if you remember, that had stained windows a lot like that. And I thought, well, maybe the upper transom factory windows can have some faded color in it that wouldn't lit would take on light.

And then we worked with Ken to have those actually pivot so they could get out of the way to get side lighting deep into the sides of the set. So it was a box set that could open up at the top to get intense cross lighting that made the brick come alive. We also detailed the brick so there wasn't an obvious repeat of the pattern, it had a level of reality to it. And it had an airiness to it, it had an open metal kind of industrial feel that you always sensed there was activity going in and around it, and I think that was a great backdrop to people. Then the other thing is wherever we could, there were electrics built into the two triangular platforms that came together in the center of the stage that constantly moved.

There were electrics built into all of the rivets of the factory, and we knew in that case we were aiming this to Milan, where we wanted that factory to turn into Milan and what we ended up doing in the one cover we had two ways to cover the stage one was the sliding panels that became they were the show drop and then the in one location that was used throughout to see when there was life in the factory or not based on the large window but then we had this red curtain and that factory had on all three sides covered so it was exactly the same shape as if the factory had become this mirrored sort of fantasy extravaganza at the end.

[28:48] David Rockwell: And it's thrilling to know you don't control the whole process. I think it's something in architecture that I'm always going back to, and that is that, you know, buildings like theater come alive when there are people in them. In a restaurant, you control just a small piece of the experience, but you can take into account what everyone else is doing.

[29:10] David Rockwell: And in Kinky Boots, I think there was great synergy between Ken Posner, Jerry, and us.

[29:18] Hal Luftig: I would completely agree with that. One of my most uplifting and favorite things was watching you guys work during tech and out of town in Chicago, and even when we came back to New York, because if we remember, that's when all those Milan lights were actually added. You know, in Chicago, it was much more subdued. We also added a runway to remember in New York that could do a lot more because we realized at the end of the show, people really wanted to have a communal celebration on that number. So the runway opened up and did other things. We also got rid of the doghouse that with the knives went into during Lowell's second knife of the matching box when they do the revival of Merlin. That thing's coming back.

[30:06] David Rockwell: You betcha.

[30:07] Hal Luftig: You betcha. David, you touched on something that I wanted to ask, which is, you know, restaurants and theaters. Many of the listeners may or may not know this, but you were the architect to renovate the Helen Hayes Theater for Second Stage when they obtained ownership. And it is a gorgeous theater. Anyone who's not been in there should absolutely buy a ticket for the next doctor and just see the theater. It's gorgeous compared to what it was. What was the difference? Can you just talk a little bit about the difference of designing something that's temporary, like a set, and something that is permanent and what the different considerations are for something like the beautiful Helen Hayes Theater?

[30:51] David Rockwell: I gotta say, you know, just to put into context the moment we're in right now, which is such a painful moment for the world and for cities, and living in New York, we see the public spaces of the city being used to try and create fairer change. You see the need of public space for people to demonstrate points of view, feeling needing change, gathering together the force of people live doing that. And, you know, I think that cities are like empty theaters without people, with no content. And in the 41 Broadway theaters, you know, now that none of us are in them, I think it's a chance to realize what miraculous things those are and how miraculous the artists are who come together and that we take the time to have these spaces that honor storytelling. And so when I was approached about the Hayes, I was super excited to have a chance to work on one of these rare, rare buildings.

[32:07] David Rockwell: And so we looked into its history, fascinating history. It was built as a little theater, I think I'm bad on 1912, I think, but it may be 1918. I think 1912, with a little over 300 seats. It was built, Hal, as a reaction to big commercial theater. So even back then, there was the reaction against big commercial theater. Later, a balcony was added. Then it had many renovations, and it had been landmarked. So we studied the landmark designation, we studied the theater, and we had a couple of key goals that Carol Rothman at Second Stage articulated. Make it a better place for everyone working there, better facilities, better backstage facilities, ADA accessible to all seats, easier load-in, better electric distribution, less money needed to put on a show because it was built in, and a better experience for audiences, although the seating size and the seating quantity was also landmarked. So, you know, it was built at the time when seats were small, and that was part of the inheritance of the landmark.

[33:15] David Rockwell: We did then say, well, one of their goals is to have it make a statement about Second Stage and contemporary American playwrights. So we looked at this interesting history that Broadway theaters went through when the walls were used as a kind of canvas for color, like the New Amsterdam Theater with all that beautiful terracotta. And then I found that when it opened up originally, it had these tapestries hanging in it. And we came up with the notion of taking one of those tapestries and creating an artwork that's a pixelated version of the tapestry that was there that happens to be of the Greek gods of theater, all in what I'll call Joseph Urban Blue, who was one of my major set designers, a real hero who was an architect and a set designer, and has a blue named after him called Urban Blue, sort of deep cobalt blue.

And then that color would go lighter in the back walls and darker and darker till it gets to the stage, so that the audience is in a natural X-ray of experiences or eyes move towards the stage. So it's almost a magnetic pull to the stage. So it was an amazing, wonderful, challenging, terrifying. You know, I didn't want to be the person who broke the Hayes Theater. And so I took the assignment really seriously. And then we amazingly got to do the first show in there, Lobby Hero with Trip Cullum. And that was really interesting to just realize I had to stop looking at the walls and look at the stage, and you know, got to sort of work in that space.

[35:06] Hal Luftig: Well, you know, David, one of the other things I've always wanted to ask is I've noticed when I'm in one of the buildings you have designed, and the two I think of right off the top of my head is the Hayes and the Jet Blue Terminal. I always feel like, wow, there's room here. I'm not like bunched in. Do you think of or take into consideration like traffic flow, if you will, in these spaces, these bigger spaces?

[35:34] David Rockwell: Yeah, I think people experience space like you experience dance. So it's something we really think about, sequencing of spaces. In most cases, when you think about your impact, it's how spaces line up. I like to look at Radio City Music Hall, which, you know, has the most exquisitely choreographed set of spaces with that lower box office, then that vertical soaring lobby with a stair, and then that sunset view. So three very different kinds of spaces, but connected. That applies in the case of Jet Blue. One of the things we recognized is whenever I go to an airport, it's impossible to find your gate. There's something so counterintuitive about signage laid onto the design. So we wanted a space that was more intuitive, and the movement led you as you were leaving the city.

You went through security, and then you came through that marketplace where there's places to sit, all focused on looking out in the three directions where you can clearly see your gates. And we got to study that even further. That, you know, if you can deal with the anxiety of getting people to where they need to be and use design as a way to physically get them in view of their gate, then it's possible for them if they have a place to sit and have a drink and relax, they can do that. But in, as I think you know, in the case of Jet Blue, we brought in Jerry Mitchell as a choreographer because Jet Blue kept saying, "We're afraid this is going to be a train wreck in terms of how people move."

And of course, Jerry is not shy about having answers to many things. So he showed us what a movement pattern might be like when you arrive in the city, getting into the rhythm of the city, and what it might be like when you're leaving.

[37:31] Hal Luftig: Yeah, I remember when Jerry told me he was doing that, he was joining you as a choreographer. And I just said to him, you know, that's great, Jerry, but you know, personally, I don't tap dance to my gate, so I don't understand this. But what you said was so beautifully said and explains exactly his role in doing that. You know, congratulations, because Jet Blue and the Helen Hayes are really, in my opinion, two different spaces, but spaces where you don't have what you said is anxiety, which is true, about how do I get somewhere, how do I get to the bathroom, you know, is a big one in the theater. How do I, you know, get there? There's going to be a whole new set of rigorous things for designers to embrace about how do I get to the bathroom safely?

How do I, you know, how do we sequence people in and out? So choreography and sequencing is going to be even more important as we think about trying to start to feel safer in smaller groups and then in bigger and bigger groups and inhabiting our city again.

[38:32] David Rockwell: Yeah, but I am very hopeful. You know me. I'm very optimistic, and I'm optimistic that we will figure this out. You know, it may not be in the next two months, but we will figure it out. And Broadway, because of what you said, the need of people to experience storytelling live and to actually be with other people when they experience that. When we do figure that out, we will. Broadway will come, I believe, roaring back.

[39:01] David Rockwell: I did a survey of Broadway theaters for this walk of the theater district, and I was surprised to find out that many, many, I think the majority of the Broadway theaters, a big explosion of theaters was right after the Spanish flu. But if you look at the dates, I don't know how that tracks to our existing moment, but I do think the need for people to be with each other is profound, and we will find ways to solve it, maybe a little slower than we like to safely.

[39:33] Hal Luftig: Well, yeah, but it will happen. It will happen, and we will be back. David, like all good things, you know, things must come to an end, and so much this interview, but I could spend all day talking to you. I know you're a very busy man and have a lot to do, especially today. So I want to wrap up by asking you three what I call rapid-fire questions that I ask every single guest on the show. I only ask you, don't think about it. I'll ask the question, give me the first answer that pops into your head. So the first one is, what is your favorite musical?

[40:08] David Rockwell: Hairspray.

[40:10] Hal Luftig: Yeah, that's great. This one a little more, maybe, what was the wackiest moment you've ever experienced in the theater thus far?

[40:20] David Rockwell: I took my best friends to see Harvey, and the set glitched, and Scott Ellis came out on stage and introduced me in the balcony and asked if there's anything I wanted to say about why it glitched. That was probably the wackiest moment.

[40:41] Hal Luftig: And this is so hilarious because the third question is, and the lesson you learned from that moment was.

[40:50] David Rockwell: Life isn't perfect, and sometimes things glitch. And I do, and also, in fact, when things glitch and are reset, the audience is then aware that they're seeing a one-time bespoke thing that will never ever be the same.

[41:05] Hal Luftig: That is very true. That is very true. I think for me, a second lesson from that is never as the designer be in the theater when the set glitches. And at all times carry muscle relaxants.

[41:20] David Rockwell: Touche, touche.

[41:22] Hal Luftig: Well, David, thank you so much for joining us.

[41:25] David Rockwell: Thank you.

[41:26] Hal Luftig: Really, really a fantastic talk.

[41:28] David Rockwell: Thank you.

[41:29] Hal Luftig: Be well, and I hope I'll see you soon with Becoming Nancy.

[41:33] David Rockwell: I would love that.

[41:34] Hal Luftig: Take care.

[41:35] David Rockwell: All right, bye.

[41:40] Hal Luftig: Thank you for listening to today's episode. Broadway Biz is part of the Broadway Podcast Network, is produced by Dylan Marie Parent and Kevin Connor, and is edited by Derek Gunther. Our theme music is by Nell Benjamin and Larry O'Keefe. Be sure to subscribe to Broadway Biz and follow us on Instagram at Broadway Biz Podcast.