This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:08] Pam Parasot: Hello and welcome to the Broadway Teachers Podcast.

[0:10] Gordon Greenberg: I'm Pam Parasot.

[0:12] Gordon Greenberg: And I'm Gordon Greenberg.

[0:14] Gordon Greenberg: And I'm so excited because today we get to spend a little time with one of my favorite people and peers, Jessica Stone.

[0:24] Gordon Greenberg: Um, we first met probably 25 years ago playing pencils in a commercial for the IRS.

[0:32] Gordon Greenberg: Um, it was all about when the IRS was going electronic, and we were lonely, lonely pencils together to pass the time. I did impressions of Matthew Broderick, and she did um Megan Mullally, because How to Succeed was playing.

[0:44] Gordon Greenberg: And then a week later we both got cast in How to Succeed.

[0:47] Gordon Greenberg: Come on.

[0:48] Gordon Greenberg: Um, she actually took over from Megan Mullally for a few weeks in between her and Sarah Jessica Parker, and I was like Tacaberry and an understudy.

[0:58] Gordon Greenberg: But um, I just it was a really fun time in my life, and I love that we're both A, still alive, B, still working in the business in different ways.

[1:09] Gordon Greenberg: And we're both directing on Broadway now, which is so cool.

[1:13] Gordon Greenberg: And what was so great too is that we were able to talk to her and the teachers got to see Kimberly Akimbo, which I know was one of your favorite shows that you saw last year.

[1:21] Pam Parasot: I loved it so much.

[1:22] Pam Parasot: I cried, I laughed, I felt emotional intelligence, all the things.

[1:26] Pam Parasot: Um, it's a beautiful show, and Jess is a really fine artist and um, a thoughtful, intelligent person, and we're so lucky that we get to pick her brain a little bit about her whole um span of career.

[1:42] Gordon Greenberg: Yes, well, let's take a listen.

[1:45] Gordon Greenberg: The following was recorded live at the Broadway Teachers Workshop, an annual program that brings theater teachers together with the Broadway community for behind the scenes classes, workshops, intimate discussions, and Broadway shows in New York City and online.

[2:01] Gordon Greenberg: Learn more at www.broadwayteachinggroup.com.

[2:08] Gordon Greenberg: I could not be more excited to introduce our next guest to you, especially because you are going to see Kimberly Akimbo tonight.

[2:18] Gordon Greenberg: So I think this session will get you primed and ready to enjoy this truly remarkable, quirky, beautiful musical.

[2:26] Gordon Greenberg: And the success of the show has so much to do with our next guest.

[2:30] Gordon Greenberg: Please join me in welcoming director of Kimberly Akimbo, Miss Jessica Stone.

[2:38] Gordon Greenberg: So, Jessica, I think that Gordon had told you that this is a group of theater educators from all over the world. We've got someone from Australia here this week. We have someone from Canada everywhere. And so my question to you is are there any educational did you have any early educational influences or teachers that meant something to you that sort of maybe set you on this path?

[2:59] Jessica Stone: Oh did I not? What do I do? Let me see. Get you another exactly. All right, let's do that. Hi, it's such a good question. And a hundred percent yes. I um I became interested in the arts. My my I'm going way back. My parents divorced. And um way back. Um, and uh my dad is from New York and moved back to New York. I'm from upstate New York. And he was just of the mind, it's how he was raised that you just take your kids to see everything. So I would visit him. Um, I would spend, you know, school vacations with him and summer vacations with him. And he would take me in one trip to see, I'm dating myself, you know, Mikhail Baryshnikov at New York City Ballet, and Love for Three Oranges at the Met and Annie and André Serban's Trojan Women at La Mama.

Oh my gosh. So and I was seven, you know. So he would take me to everything. And I became really interested in acting. And eventually for seventh grade, what was junior high then? We didn't have middle school, it just went through. Um, I went to a school of the arts in upstate New York in Rochester, New York. And I have to say, it was more than just one. I mean, it was an incredible group of grown-ups who um who didn't necessarily stoke the interest because it was already there, but helped mold it and were just um were just there to receive all interest. And so I would express, you know, like who's Kurt Weill? And next thing I know, you know, there's a class devoted to Kurt Weill. Like they just were it was an incredible, incredible group of artists and teachers. And my mom is actually a music teacher.

[4:58] Jessica Stone: Oh yeah, and so there was always music in the house, and obviously you were exposed to theater at a very young age.

[5:04] Gordon Greenberg: Yeah. When did you know you wanted to make it your career?

[5:08] Jessica Stone: I mean, André Serban's Trojan Women didn't do it for me. At seven, didn't do it. Annie, however, yeah. Uh so and and you know, Sweeney Todd, um, with Angela Lansbury and Len Cariou. It was, I was pretty young. I was I was in elementary school.

[5:27] Gordon Greenberg: All right, but you knew.

[5:28] Jessica Stone: And for those of you who don't know, I'm sure most of you do, but Jessica started out as an actress, and you had quite an established career in New York working on Broadway and Off Broadway in fabulous regional theaters as an actress. So I guess my, you know, it's a logical question, but when did you think you wanted to transition into directing?

[5:47] Jessica Stone: Um it I didn't really know until maybe 13 years ago. Um, but I was always a really lippy actor, you know, and I always cared about everybody else's lane but my own. And and I'm poor everybody, I just apologize. Um but um I think when I was 21, I went on the road with a national tour of Bye Bye Birdie with Tommy Tune and Anne Reinking, and Gene Sachs directed it. And we were doing the telephone hour and we were in our normal sort of 50s teen jeans and sneaks, and they suddenly changed the costumes, and we were in these sexy little baby doll, you know, pajamas, and I was outraged. And I and I took Gene aside and I said, you know, this is not the right arc for us all. We're this you have to wait till a lot of live in. What are you doing in act one putting us in this clothing? And he stuck to his guns, rightfully so. But um, and he said to me, I think you might be a director. And at the time, I thought he was mocking me. So I didn't take it really seriously.

[7:05] Gordon Greenberg: But you always were looking big picture.

[7:07] Jessica Stone: I was, I was, and when it finally, and then I started my husband, actually suggested it. Um, because you know, as a woman, I think it's changing, but maybe not quickly enough. Um, the roles start to evaporate if you're not, you know, already a movie star or a supermodel. And so I hit my 30s and I was thinking about having kids, and I was sick of my opportunities turning into, you know, you have a call on line one. Like, that's it. Like I'm not as interested in that. And so my husband um said, you know, why don't we have so many friends that are directors? Why not assist them in your downtime? And you can at least feel like you're a part of a process and and um, you know, not feel so just waiting by the phone.

And so I one of my best friends is Joe Mantello and that's Chris Ashley and David Warren. I, you know, there was some, and Nikki Martin was really the one. He was um he's since passed, but he ran uh the Huntington Theater and the Williamstown Theater Festival, and um, and so I started assisting them, and then I realized oh, I'm really intrigued by this. And then in 2010, Nikki said to me, you know, I'm gonna do a funny thing happened on the way to the forum um this summer at Williamstown, and I want you to be in it. I was like, oh God, I who well, who am even am I? Like I'm not the dumb hottie, and I'm not the shrewish wife, and I'm not, you know. Um, and who would I even be? And I started thinking about um how that show came to be.

And I said, you know, women have really been, we've had these tropes heaped upon us by men who were playing women, you know. So Plautus created all of these stereotypes for his male peers. And and they were sort of foisted upon us for thousands of years. And I said, you know, Nikki, you should just have men do it. And then it'll sort of neutralize the sexism, and they can just have fun. They can just be in a playground playing make believe and and just have men do it. And uh set it in Plautus' Rome and do it that way. And he said, okay, you do it. And then that was the first thing I ever directed.

[9:26] Gordon Greenberg: And when you said you did it, were you excited or scared?

[9:29] Jessica Stone: I I was numb. I well, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. And sometimes as an actor, you think, I mean, I could do what that person's doing across the table, you know. But um marketed being exactly. Um, and so it it went well, and I realized how much I loved it. I I didn't understand how much I was missing getting the opportunity to collaborate with set designers and costume designers and and thinking about all of the different characters and being, you know, I don't want to say the gatekeeper, but um being the the maybe the sounding board um for everybody and to help sort of um focus the lens on an entire story that was I I didn't realize how much I wanted to do that until I did it.

[10:18] Gordon Greenberg: What's interesting to me, so when when Nikki Martin said, Oh, you know, come be in forum, how did you just immediately have this concept of like you should just do it this way? Did that just was or you know it took a minute because he was saying, you know, he was naming all of my closest friends who were gonna be in it. And I just had this, you know, I call it like a friend of mine says your stomach lining never lies. And so anytime your stomach goes, it's just like I have to listen to that. And so I I didn't say yes, and it took me a couple of weeks. I was like, why don't I want to do this show? Why do I dislike the show? And I started, I was actually in a play at the time, and I had a four-month-old and a two-year-old.

And I was um commuting back, I was doing She Stoops to Conquer, and I was talking to this friend of mine who was my you know co-star or whatever. And and I started talking out loud in the van on the Jersey Turnpike. And I was like, I think this is what it has to be. It just sort of came pouring out. I was just mulling it for a couple of weeks.

[11:22] Gordon Greenberg: Clearly a good fit. Um, one other question I was gonna ask you. I think I read this somewhere that when you were performing, you did the Broadway revival of Anything Goes, right? And you said that that was a pivotal moment, right? In terms of you being like, I don't know if this is what I'm meant to be doing right now. Would you share that? Because I think everyone at some point, you know, maybe has maybe it's not while you're in the Broadway cast of Anything Goes, but you have a moment where things become crystal clear. And will you share that with them?

[11:49] Jessica Stone: It well, what's funny is it was right after forum, and um Kathleen Marshall called me to audition for Anything Goes, and it started with the audition, and I just walked into this room and I looked at all of these people behind this table that I had known forever that I had worked with many, many times, and I I just was it was a role that in some way or another I had done before. Not the exact role, but the temperament of her. And I walked out of there and I called Chris, my husband, and was just like, I'm not gonna, I think I'm done. I think I'm actually done. I I don't think that um I knew in that moment that I wanted to direct, but I knew that I was done with acting, that it wasn't inspiring me anymore. And then of course I get a call that it's an offer.

[12:46] Gordon Greenberg: So here she gets the part. That's how that's how life works, right?

[12:49] Jessica Stone: And I will say, thanks to Kathleen who put up with my lippiness, one final, you know, swan song of lippiness. Um, it was a really lovely company. I met some really dear friends, and in the midst of this transition, there was such tremendous camaraderie, and it really fed me. And then I started getting offers for directing jobs while I was in the run. And um, and so even then I I didn't know that that was gonna be my last acting job because I was having so much fun. But I also knew, and weirdly, this is not that interesting, but I'll I have a mic. Um, but I opening night we were given this little um charm. All the women in the cast were given this little, you know, cruise ship, this ocean liner charm.

And I opened it opening night, it was from uh Russell Krause's widow, the original writer of the book, Russell, right? Tim is the son. Um, and uh I looked at it and I was like, Well, I'm I'm never gonna wear that. And we got to closing night and I saw this box sitting, you know, up on this shelf in my dressing room, and I opened it and I was like, oh, it's kind of heavy, it feels nice. And I put the necklace on, and I haven't, I wear it every day ever since. And I realized it's sort of like a, it's almost like a talisman. It's it signifies a little transition from one chapter to another. And now I've just added an opening night of Kimberly Akimbo, which was I've been directing now for many years, but this was my Broadway debut. And the stage manager, Arabella, who I adore, uh, gave this to me opening night of Kimberly Akimbo, and I put it on there, and I have these two little from one chapter to the next.

[14:35] Gordon Greenberg: That's lovely. That's a lovely story. Nice.

[14:38] Jessica Stone: It is.

[14:39] Gordon Greenberg: That's right.

[14:40] Jessica Stone: It is.

[14:40] Gordon Greenberg: That's right.

[14:42] Jessica Stone: I want to backtrack for a second. You were you said at this one point when you were working, you had a two-month-old and a four or four-month-old and a two-year-old.

[14:50] Jessica Stone: Um, we had Janine Tassori was in a few days ago, and we spoke with her about, you know, it is well, it's getting better. It's still a very male-dominated industry, and certainly a male-dominated profession to be a director.

[15:02] Gordon Greenberg: How have you balanced all of that of being a mother and a wife and being a woman in this field?

[15:10] Jessica Stone: Um, I have a great husband. And um, and we've been lucky enough, and actually, you know, the life of a director, the schedule of a director is much more family friendly than actually the life of an actor.

[15:25] Jessica Stone: Um, I actually have my evenings for the most part, and if I don't, it's a small amount of time that I'm going through tech and previews. And um, so he and I sort of passed the torch, and as a matter of fact, this upcoming year, we both have commitments that have come at the same time and looked at each other literally this morning and we're like, who's parenting the kids this year?

[15:47] Jessica Stone: I don't know. I don't know.

[15:49] Jessica Stone: Um, but for the for the most part, we passed the torch. Um, but I will say, over the course, my oldest is now 16, and over the last 16 years, there have been really um palpable changes in terms of the culture of a room and um people's willingness to say, oh, she not that this happens all the time, but she got a call from her kids' school, and she can take five minutes to tend to it.

[16:19] Jessica Stone: You know, there was um the culture has changed a little bit, and just a few years ago when I was um meeting for a job, one of the creatives said to one of the producers, well, I don't know. I mean, she's a mother, you know, they like their time off.

[16:35] Jessica Stone: It's like first of all, time off. Like what? But you know, there's it's there's still stuff out there that needs course correcting.

[16:46] Jessica Stone: Yeah, you know, getting better, but room to grow.

[16:48] Gordon Greenberg: That's right.

[16:49] Jessica Stone: Yeah, that's right.

[16:49] Gordon Greenberg: Okay.

[16:50] Jessica Stone: Um, I want to jump ahead a little bit to talk about Kimberly Akimbo. And um, could you tell the group how did this project come to you? How did how did this collaboration begin?

[17:00] Jessica Stone: Um, I think I think there are a couple of us who would answer it differently.

[17:06] Jessica Stone: So um, because it happens that way when you work over the years with many different people, suddenly a group of people all sort of coalesce around one thing, and you don't exactly know who started where.

[17:20] Jessica Stone: Um, but Janine and David, of course, have a have a long history and um and started on this idea, I think they would say 2015. I might be wrong about that.

[17:32] Jessica Stone: Um, I was directing a play of David's, his play Ripcord at the Huntington Um Theater Company in Boston, and we have the same agent, and I wanted to talk to him because I wanted to make he, I know he's a Boston boy, and I wanted to do right by him with this play.

[17:50] Jessica Stone: And so we met for coffee to talk about it and got on instantly. I mean, I just love him so deeply.

[17:58] Jessica Stone: I he's just one of the great human beings. And Janine is as well. But this was my first, this was the first collaboration.

[18:05] Jessica Stone: Um, and uh we just got on really well. And I remember him saying in the moment over coffee uh that he was gonna be adapting Kimberly Akimbo into a musical, and I gasped and I thought, oh, that's such a good idea.

[18:18] Jessica Stone: That's such a beautiful play that sings, it so clearly sings, like what a great idea. But I never imagined that it would be me.

[18:24] Jessica Stone: I just thought it was a great idea. And then they asked me, he came to see Ripcord in Boston, and they asked me to be a part of this Sundance Theater Lab, you know, one act treatment they were working on of Kimberly, and I couldn't do it because I was I was committed to another play.

[18:45] Jessica Stone: And then I kept hearing through other sources, David Stone, the producer I've known for many years, he's also known my husband for many years, and um, I think there were just other forces at play that were sort of nudging all of us together.

[18:59] Jessica Stone: And then um I met with them in 2018, and the journey really began in earnest with you know workshops and readings, and um, and it's been a very rewarding collaboration, particularly with David and Janine and also Danny Mefford, our choreographer, because it's um it's a we have very similar sensibilities, and so the minute anything gets too sweet, we all want to sprinkle some lemon juice on it.

[19:31] Jessica Stone: And the minute something gets too dark, we want to undercut it with a laugh. Like we all have a very similar way that we live our lives, a similar um aesthetic.

[19:41] Jessica Stone: And so it was a really fertile collaboration.

[19:46] Gordon Greenberg: And how much has the show changed since 2018?

[19:50] Jessica Stone: Um there are a couple of location changes. There have been a couple of song changes.

[19:55] Jessica Stone: Um, you know, as happens with development in the early years, the changes tend to be bigger and more aggressive.

[20:05] Jessica Stone: To me, the changes that um I'm most proud of, and actually have to truly tip my hat to David and Janine more than anybody else, were the changes from when we were at the Atlantic Theater Company downtown off Broadway, and when we moved to Broadway, because they cloistered themselves in a little room together and went through the script, I mean, with a scalpel, and questioned and investigated every single word and tracked where we were bumping structurally and where we were uh bumping in terms of any character's arc or psychology.

[20:44] Jessica Stone: And and I weighed in as well, but truly the um the discipline and rigor and and um lack of preciousness that they brought to their baby, you know, was really incredible.

[21:01] Jessica Stone: And I I mean you guys are gonna see the show tonight, but probably you know that there are a lot of young people in this show, and a lot of them making their Broadway debuts.

[21:10] Gordon Greenberg: How and then you have so you have that on one end of the spectrum, and then the other, you have someone like Victoria Clark, who has, you know, more experience than you know everyone put together.

[21:20] Gordon Greenberg: How did you work with the young actors in the company? Did you work with, did you direct them differently than perhaps the rest of the cast? Was there a, you know, what energy did they bring to the production?

[21:32] Jessica Stone: I say that because all of these folks are working with young people.

[21:35] Jessica Stone: Of course. Well, I mean, the thing that I've loved so much about working with the young people, as you all know, especially that age, um, they're like, they're like babies but stretched like rubber bands, you know.

[21:47] Jessica Stone: They're just, they're, I just love them. And I think anytime you direct anything, every single person requires a different skill set from the director.

[21:58] Jessica Stone: Every single person has a different um means, uh, different triggers to unlock.

[22:05] Jessica Stone: And so in some ways, you know, the challenge with some of the younger performers is there would be stuff that would come so effortlessly because they're going by pure instinct, and it would be perfect, but to repeat it and to understand how they came up with it and what it was that they even did, and to repeat it, um, is its own kind of skill.

[22:28] Jessica Stone: Um but the thing that I really loved was it's not that um I want to figure out how to articulate this the right way.

[22:36] Jessica Stone: You know, there's a there's a wisdom and a healthy kind of um maybe cynicism, but a healthy kind of irreverence that comes when you've been doing it a long time.

[22:49] Jessica Stone: And so that is something that Vicky and Allie and and Steve and Bonnie um can it's that's what they share with those younger people.

[23:01] Jessica Stone: The younger performers of course come with a kind of hopeful, wide-eyed like everything is an opportunity.

[23:10] Jessica Stone: And I don't mean in ambitious, I don't mean that in a career way. I mean in a in a way to be in a room and tell a story.

[23:17] Jessica Stone: And so both of those qualities really washed over everybody. It was a really lovely company of actors.

[23:27] Jessica Stone: But it doesn't really matter the age, every single person requires um different attention, a different kind of attention from a director.

[23:37] Jessica Stone: Justin Cooley, who plays Seth, um is really special and I was I'm not telling tales out of school he knows this.

[23:47] Jessica Stone: We've talked about it a lot. But when he um auditioned I was very worried and I was actually the last holdout in the room because he was 18.

[23:56] Jessica Stone: He had just graduated from high school and I was really afraid that he was so green and had um and and is basically a leading role.

[24:08] Jessica Stone: And I didn't want to I didn't want to do that to his mother like to I I actually emailed her and I said I'm so sorry you were going to drop him off at college and now you're dropping him off in the middle of Manhattan and I'm so sorry.

[24:21] Jessica Stone: But he um I I didn't want him to fail. You know I didn't want him to to I didn't want to put him in a position that was going to be too much for somebody at that age.

[24:32] Gordon Greenberg: The mother and you, I'm sure.

[24:34] Jessica Stone: Yeah.

[24:34] Jessica Stone: And I thank God I was wrong. Um, because everyone in the room, you know, we we uh had a couple of options, and I was very worried about um, you know, doing the right thing by him, and he was amazing.

[24:49] Jessica Stone: And what he did for himself, because we did get to a point second week in rehearsal where he was like, I'm at C, I don't know what I'm doing.

[24:56] Jessica Stone: And he said, Can we can you carve out like a session in rehearsal? And it can just be you and me and Arabella or stage manager, and can we just go through the script and work on it together?

[25:08] Jessica Stone: Which typically with a new musical, it's like you don't really have time to do that.

[25:13] Jessica Stone: Um, but the idea that he advocated for himself, and I see all teachers going, yes, yeah, because self-advocation.

[25:20] Jessica Stone: Um, but the idea that he advocated for himself and was confident enough to come up to me and ask for that.

[25:28] Jessica Stone: And honestly, we had this little session for an hour and a half, and we went through the script and I watched it happen.

[25:34] Jessica Stone: I watched him hear it and something went, and he got it.

[25:39] Jessica Stone: And at one point, we were in an early preview, and my associate turned to me and he said, How did Justin become our favorite thing in the show?

[25:49] Jessica Stone: Like he's he's I mean, he's just he's a beautiful, beautiful actor.

[25:55] Jessica Stone: And you know, I think it'd be interesting. I don't know if anyone in this room has had someone um go through the Jimmy Awards process.

[26:00] Gordon Greenberg: Do you have yes, people, some folks here?

[26:02] Jessica Stone: Can you talk a little bit? Because that's really how you guys found Justin, right?

[26:06] Gordon Greenberg: Yeah, yeah.

[26:06] Jessica Stone: We a couple of them actually.

[26:08] Jessica Stone: Um yes, uh Michael Escander as well.

[26:12] Jessica Stone: Um, yeah, the Jimmies has become a really valuable tool, and sure you all know.

[26:17] Jessica Stone: Does everybody know what the Jimmy Awards are?

[26:19] Gordon Greenberg: Okay.

[26:20] Jessica Stone: Do you want to explain?

[26:21] Gordon Greenberg: No, no.

[26:21] Jessica Stone: Uh the you guys all pretty much know.

[26:23] Jessica Stone: Or some you don't.

[26:24] Gordon Greenberg: Okay, so there are regional awards.

[26:26] Jessica Stone: Um, it this is uh in um conjunction with the league of Broadway Theaters, and throughout the states, uh there are regional awards in every state where kids can um come and perform um through an adjudication process, and ultimately two students of um are chosen from each state.

[26:45] Jessica Stone: They come to New York for a week in June for the Jimmy Awards, and they have a week of rehearsing and classes and fancy mancy stuff like that, and then they choose two sort of finalist winners and and and they go on usually to have very exciting careers.

[27:00] Gordon Greenberg: Yeah.

[27:01] Jessica Stone: But you're right, it's sort of the last couple of years, it the profile of it is really elevated, and there's been some spectacular kids come out of it.

[27:08] Gordon Greenberg: But Justin was a finalist, is that right?

[27:11] Jessica Stone: Yeah.

[27:11] Gordon Greenberg: Yeah.

[27:11] Jessica Stone: And as a matter of fact, Bernie Telsi, the casting director who's very deeply connected to the Jimmies, um, said, you know, uh, take a look at, you know, one minute and 28 seconds in this kid Justin Cooley, he has mono or something, and he can't sing.

[27:27] Jessica Stone: He can't sing right now, but just look at his look, and maybe we can set up a um set up a time.

[27:32] Jessica Stone: I don't know that it was mono, but um it was something, you know, teen illness.

[27:37] Jessica Stone: And um, and um and he did have a great look.

[27:45] Jessica Stone: And then I met him, and again, he his spirit is so beautiful, it's like dead on.

[27:51] Gordon Greenberg: We'll see that tonight.

[27:52] Jessica Stone: Yeah.

[27:53] Jessica Stone: Um, so so Kimberly Akimbo goes to the Atlantic, rave reviews.

[27:57] Gordon Greenberg: It was the ticket you could not get.

[27:59] Jessica Stone: And and soon after it was announced that you guys would be moving.

[28:03] Gordon Greenberg: Um, how was that transition for you both as a director and sort of as a person to be going from this sort of smallish off-Broadway house to I'm at the booth theater on Broadway?

[28:14] Jessica Stone: I mean, how how did that work for you?

[28:16] Jessica Stone: Um, well, as a as a person, it was it just was like, okay, so this is the next step and great, and how are we gonna make sure that Charlie doesn't fail chemistry while I'm, you know, like what we're and it was that as a person, it was just life, work life balance.

[28:32] Jessica Stone: Um, as an artist, what was exciting, um, you know, at the Atlantic, it's a tiny little theater and there's no wing space or fly space or trap space or anything.

[28:43] Jessica Stone: And so we just thought it was a victory that people were ice skating, you know.

[28:49] Jessica Stone: We were, we just were happy that we figured out a couple of little things.

[28:54] Jessica Stone: Um, but when we were told we were gonna move, it was it was less about, oh my god, it's Broadway and more, oh, you know, I always cared about this idea of somebody feeling trapped and somebody breaking out and the world contracting and expanding around her, and we can actually do that now.

[29:15] Jessica Stone: So when we moved to Broadway, it was less about how do we make this um feel like it's a Broadway show and more we grew into ourselves.

[29:29] Jessica Stone: We sort of matured in a way physically and um even in terms of tone, you know, the confidence that the actors have after they've had a pass at it. Um so I was actually really excited to get another crack at it. We all were, you know, it's it's really a luxury to um you're never done. I still look at it and there's stuff I there's transitions I don't like and there's you know, um, but uh you're never done. So to to have an opportunity to do it again was just great.

[30:01] Jessica Stone: And you mentioned the ice skating. I would love for you to chat a little bit about how you work with designers, what that process was for Kimberly Akimbo, and you know, anything that maybe they could take away when they're collaborating with their designers on their productions. Well, what's really interesting, as I'm sure you all know, is when you get the opportunity to collaborate with a set designer and a costume designer and a sound designer and projections, it's all of these different people who they are all storytellers and they just look at it through a different lens. And so um it's really inspiring. And David Zinn, who's our set designer, um, you know, we were all set to go and then COVID hit, and we there were things we hadn't solved.

And so a lot of being in lockdown was just being on Zoom with David and figuring out what the we c would call it the envelope of of the world is like what's the what's the sort of physical frame? Um, and we ultimately landed on home um and on family, um given or chosen.

[31:13] Jessica Stone: Um and the other thing that he and I talked a lot about, I you know, I always talked about Kim is like somebody, you know, when you see a um cement and you see a bright, beautiful flower poking through the cracks of the cement. And I said, I feel like for her, she's so there's something about her that's so earthbound and so, you know, um celestial in it for lack of a better word. And so we talked a lot about playing around with asphalt and sky. Um by the time we got to the booth, the asphalt felt less important. Down at the Atlantic, the asphalt was more present. Um sky felt to be the most important and and expansion and this idea that um you can look at something and you have no idea what's underneath, including Kim.

[32:07] Jessica Stone: You look at this old lady and you don't know what her story is. You don't, you know, you think you're looking at an old lady. Um, and you're not. And so you look at this sort of blue box or this little frame of a house, and you're like, okay, I see what that is, but you're not. There are there are secrets underneath, and it and I wanted it to be a little bit like her brain, you know, that it's just this um imaginative, quirky, um, unexpected landscape.

[32:39] Gordon Greenberg: You said that you, you know, COVID sort of shut down the the project for a while. Was that um did you relish the additional time to be thinking and working on the show? Or was that was it torture? Uh in you know, obviously no no one knew how long it was going to be and and and all that stuff, but how did you find the you know to keep the spark alive for the show during that time?

[33:03] Jessica Stone: Well, it was easy to keep the spark alive. There was actually another project as well that I just finished. Um they they I got them both at the same time, the same month actually in 2018. And it it was easy to keep the spark alive with both of them because we were on lockdown and our kids were learning remotely, and and you know, we were actually in Maine, where my husband's family is from, and and so to have something to hang on to and to still feel like um we were creating was so um enriching. It really was like a lifeline. We everyone said that we had dates, but you we didn't know anything. You know, we didn't know how long it was gonna it was gonna go on for. So I was actually most appreciative for what it did in the moment.

[33:51] Gordon Greenberg: Um yeah, yes, less so about what it did to your process as a director.

[33:57] Jessica Stone: Yeah, yeah. I do want to open up for questions, but I have one last thing I want to ask you. So you were Tony Award nominated for your very first show that you've done on Broadway. I mean, kudos to you.

[34:06] Gordon Greenberg: Thank you.

[34:08] Jessica Stone: Yeah, thank you. Um can you talk about that crazy process? We've had folks here over the last couple of weeks talk about, you know, I think for people who just watch the Tony Awards once a year in their living room, they have no idea sort of the the massive PR and circus that it is. Can you talk a little bit about finding out that you got nominated and what that whole journey was for you?

[34:31] Jessica Stone: I'm an annoying person to ask because I because I I don't know if this is good or bad, but I sort of shut down inside with with with a lot of it because probably to protect myself. And so um I was actually very grateful to be rehearsing another show during the entire chapter. Uh, so that I was working, I was concentrating on the thing that I care most about. And I actually spoke with the company when uh right before the the all the nominations came out because I said, you know, um it's a really cool thing, and it is um it's for producers, it's for the the longevity of the show and thankfully with us in particular it has really helped it's been amazing.

[35:21] Jessica Stone: Um but all the other stuff is noise, and I said to them all, you know, we just have to remember as you go through this Tony season and the campaigning and all of it, um, because there is a fair amount of campaigning. Um that the thing you're gonna remember 15 years from now, 20 years from now, hopefully on your deathbed, 50 years from now, um is uh are the relationships that you made and the the work that you did and the work ethic that you have and carry with you, like that's actually real, that actually is lasting and stays with you.

[35:58] Jessica Stone: Um yet the night that we were there and won for best musical, I was thrilled, but I I actually had to give myself the charge and say, okay, so you're sort of cynical about it, and that's sort of terrible for other people to hear. So you I had to give myself the charge that like you know, your seven-year-old self would think it's really cool. And so I I kept and Chris and I kept saying that to each other that night when it was hot and I was hungry and it's long, and I was just like, you know, your seven-year-old self watching it was Sarah Jessica Parker playing Annie, actually, back in the day.

[36:38] Jessica Stone: Um, your seven-year-old self would think this was so cool. What a lovely way to think about it, given the show itself, too. You know, to find that childlike, that's amazing.

[36:47] Gordon Greenberg: Yeah. Any questions for Miss Jessica from the crowd?

[36:50] Pam Parasot: Anyone want to yes?

[36:52] Audience Member: Yes. Sorry. Um, I know it't stick with me because it's coming from a play and the musicals are doing big. But as a director, when you're directing something that you've seen before, or that we've seen numerous times before, or even I think direct it before. How do you cleanse your palate?

[37:09] Jessica Stone: Great question. I had seen Kimberly, I had seen it once back in 2003. So now that I'm a middle-aged woman, palette cleansing was not necessary. Like I I can't remember what I ate this morning. So that was easy.

[37:39] Jessica Stone: And I directed a production before the old memory went. I I directed a production at Williamstown, and I had a really hard time uh getting it out of my system, getting the old one out of my system. And I think I did an okay job with it. It's not one of it's not one of my um, I don't look at it and go, yeah, I nailed that one. I mean, I rarely say that anyway, but um, but I had a really hard time, and I think to its detriment, shaking off um what the production was that I was in.

[38:13] Gordon Greenberg: That's hard.

[38:14] Jessica Stone: There was someone in front, yeah.

[38:16] Audience Member: Did you did yeah?

[38:22] Jessica Stone: I think it depends. Um if it's a more often than not, even if it's a play, music is my way in, even if it's a play. Um, um, and so sometimes it's an image. Sometimes it's a piece of music that, and I I often just have to sit with it and be boring and and have no ideas and no solutions. The the key thing for me is quiet. If I can give myself a little time to be quiet and even not solve something a little time each day, um, a little kernel of something will occur to me, and then I'll start to chase it. Um, but often music is the thing that unlocks it for me.

[39:12] Gordon Greenberg: Good question.

[39:13] Gordon Greenberg: Anybody else?

[39:14] Gordon Greenberg: Speaking of a director's process, you as a performer, as an actor had worked with some fantastic directors. Are there any kernels that you stole or took or you know, from those different people that you use now?

[39:28] Jessica Stone: I keep trying to be like my favorite ones, you know.

[39:31] Gordon Greenberg: Your favorite ones.

[39:35] Jessica Stone: I think Nikki Martin um had brought such a healthy sense of humor to a room, and he was so full of joy and so not precious, um, and so willing to be wrong and so willing to be a mess. And um, and he loves actors, and I do too, most of them.

[39:58] Jessica Stone: But I I do too. I love actors.

[40:01] Jessica Stone: Um Joe Mentello um is is I worked with him as an actor and I was his assistant, and he's a friend. And his um his commitment, you know, I always ask, we get to a certain point in the process, and I'm like, I'm not sure I know the difference between letting go and giving up. Because you get to a point and you're like, well, is this just what it is? And is that okay? Do I need to let go because what it is right now is actually what it was always meant to be. And I had some theoretical idea and I'm just being, you know, dogged.

[40:41] Jessica Stone: Um, or am I just giving up and I need to press on? And he is somebody who never gives up. And so I keep that in mind when I'm ready to. Um, yeah, those are the biggies.

[40:57] Gordon Greenberg: That's a good point.

[40:57] Gordon Greenberg: And um, are there you know, we talked about you starting out as a performer, and this was a while ago. What changes have you seen come your way in terms of Broadway, both as a business and as a creative person in the industry? How is it different than when you first started if it is different?

[41:11] Jessica Stone: It is different. It is our rooms look different now. And our um and our teams of creatives um look different. Everyone's a little more willing to push the envelope and not go with the same 10 people that everyone's used to going with. And that is really, really incredible. It's incredible.

[41:40] Gordon Greenberg: And it makes for much more fertile environments and it makes for rooms that are more fun.

[41:47] Jessica Stone: We've I've asked this question to a couple of people who've been here over the last couple of weeks, and a recurring theme has been that they've said they feel that from younger performers, there's not the same commitment. How can I put this? Not the same commitment to aid a week. There's not the same that there's there's a little more, and and some were saying they think it's a really healthy thing because it is a tough business and it doesn't leave a lot of room for personal time or things that are going on in your your lives.

[42:17] Jessica Stone: And others have said, no, people have gotten too soft and are calling out for a hangnail. And I'm wondering if you've experienced one way or the other.

[42:26] Jessica Stone: I mean, I've seen uh the calling out for a hangnail, and I've seen I literally just did a reading with a young woman who was, and it was a reading. It was not tech or previews, it was just a reading that she was getting paid no money for, and she had and she was doing eight shows a week in addition to the reading, and she had food poisoning and showed up to the reading and got a nurse to meet her at the studio with a bag of IV fluids.

[42:58] Jessica Stone: So I, you know, so I've seen everything. I've seen soft, and I've seen you can take a morning off and puke if you need to. Um, and I've always seen that. And I I, you know, was around it when I was in my 20s and working. There were people that always called out, and there were people that never missed.

[43:23] Jessica Stone: Um, so I don't know that has so much to do with the change in the times. I don't know. You know, and I there is some stuff. I mean, I have to say there was a big um philosophical debate around 10 out of 12s.

[43:38] Jessica Stone: And um tell them what 10 out of 12s are in case they don't know.

[43:38] Jessica Stone: 10 out of 12s are during the tech period, and you move from the studio into the theater, and you know, I mean, at least for my entire adult life as an actor and even a director, but more so as an actor, you know, you get there at 12 and you break at midnight, and you are folding in all of the technical elements on stage, and it's and you're they're just there all night long and you do it for weeks, and then you're doing it in the afternoon and you're previewing at night.

[44:09] Jessica Stone: And uh what I didn't know is that when I was an actor, because you're only thinking about your own self, um, is that then the entire production team is there after midnight and having meetings afterward, and they're there until one and two in the morning. I mean, it's it's a brutal schedule, and everyone gets sick, it's a brutal schedule. Um, and when they started talking about, oh, we have to get rid of 10 out of 12s, it's not humane, and it's actually intrinsically uh racist, sexist, all of itists. I was like, well, I mean, I know it's brutal, but it's kind of a badge of honor. What are you talking about? Well, how are we gonna get our work done? It's really hard to do a musical, you need all that time.

Well, sure enough, we get to Kimberly and even uh Water for Elephants in Atlanta, which I just finished, and they were like, We're not doing 10 out of 12s, and we got our work done. We finished at 10. We I I could actually get up in the morning to see my children and get them off to school because I wasn't going to bed at two in the morning, three in the morning. Um, and we got our work done. So I think that there are um I think it's really important always to ask the questions and to investigate. And I also think it's important to push for a badass work ethic, you know. You know, I think it's all true. You can do both, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's in the front. That's actually just a little easy question.

Um, we have found that um, and I'm sure this is around the country, uh, that there seems to be uh sort of lack of and I think you're going to see this more. Um because first of all, you've got COVID. It's like it we can't and it and it truly is good that we're sort of taking syllabus more seriously. I mean for our sake, you shouldn't. However, I mean, I have seen other teachers and I have seen students truly using I'm emotionally upset today. Yes, therefore my body is falling apart. I don't feel comfortable doing anything today or the next three weeks, next semesters, but I still should get an A. Um right, and I think there it's completely our responsibility to push back. Um, you know, it's funny, we just had this conversation with um, this is for a different show, but um we're it's a it's a show that uh uses a lot of circus performers, and we also had dancers, and with circus, you know, it really is their livelihood.

So if there is a strained back, they cannot do the show because you're talking about if you make them slide upside down down the pole with a strained back, you're talking about put possibly impacting their entire career. Um, but then it became well, we can't if we're saying you have a strained back and you can't slide down the pole, what about our dancer whose knees are tweaked? And are we gonna now um and of course we don't want our dancer to um there were there was a different sort of cultural response to these different um performers and ultimately um if the show moves forward, God willing, we had a long conversation about um what it means and what the line is going to be in order to determine, okay, so you can, you know, you can do this part of your show, but not the other.

You can't sit on that scaffolding, but you can do the twisty twist on the thingy magic. Um so we have to figure out what the line is before it's acceptable to just call out. And I think I think I think pushing back and having expectations is and having discussions about it, I I personally think is what keeps us all sane and what helps us bring the next generation in. I've definitely seen a version of that. Um and I've also seen, at least in this, especially when it's a commercial industry and hundreds and thousands, if not millions of dollars are at stake. Um, you know, I've seen there be pushback as well. And sometimes it's appropriate to then push back against the pushback because the commercialism and capitalism can't just take away what is um human. Um, but it's I think it's important to keep having the conversation. I think what worries me is when the grown-ups in the room either are entrenched in bad habits or are afraid to disagree, you know.

[49:09] Gordon Greenberg: Right.

[49:11] Jessica Stone: Right. Nice town. Yeah. Right. Yes, it's not, it's not without its complications, without a doubt. Did you have a question behind?

[49:22] Pam Parasot: Yeah.

[49:22] Jessica Stone: Nope. I thought you did.

[49:23] Pam Parasot: Yeah.

[49:25] Jessica Stone: I just wanted to see you say how important it is to see a female director.

[49:33] Pam Parasot: Thank you.

[49:40] Jessica Stone: And so thank you. It's getting better. I mean, there are some incredible women who are slaying. It it's it's there, you know. Um there are some incredible women that I feel really um honored to be rubbing elbows with. You know, it's getting better. It's also important for us to see. Like it's okay, even as teachers that are directors, like still see your kid in the morning. Yeah. And it's okay to like fight for time to do that. Yeah. Because if we sacrifice, if we sacrifice it. And they sacrifice. Yeah, of course. You know, I also today. Yes.

[50:22] Pam Parasot: Well, and I have two boys.

[50:24] Jessica Stone: And so it's really important. And it's really important that they see um mom be busy and dedicated and run a room that has, you know, the the Kimberly was also weirdly big, even though it's a fairly small show, but Water for Elephants was like the Prussian army in the in the theater. It was just like the most insane group of people that it took to get that show up on its feet. And for my boys to see mom lead a room, you know, with all those people, it's it's important and it's it's but it's especially important to not um I think, and I'm not always successful at it. Obviously, we're all we have good days and bad days, but um to to chart out the life and the style of how to live your life that you believe is appropriate for you.

It happened when we had little babies, you know, we didn't let people tell us how to raise our babies. And if a lot of guilt right away, yes. Yes. Yes. But if you were home all day, there'd still be guilt. You know, there'd be something else that you screwed up, like you know.

[51:44] Audience Member: Yes, in the front.

[51:45] Jessica Stone: Um back to your young past as educator, and I know every part of the right, what is what is something that we kind of act on that to really to stand out and offers to get on a experience.

[52:05] Audience Member: So um that could be the thing that we see much better with your to still have that you know, you know, desire and just feeling like a number.

[52:16] Jessica Stone: Yes, it's a and that never goes away, right? It w as an actor, you always feel like a number. The one thing I would say that I wish I had known when I was acting is no audition is a waste of time. There are um, I suppose there are, you know, creatives that don't pay close attention if you walk in the door and they instantly know that you're not what they're looking for, but um I don't because I've had the experience of seeing someone amazing, they're not right for the show, and offering them another show like two years later because I remember that audition and had worked with them. No audition is a waste of time. And um I would say the thing I respond to the most when I see young kids come in is obviously preparation, um, and an ability to be game, you know, to play around in the room, and um, you know, an ability to sort of take notes and show a willingness to take notes, even if you don't nail it, you know.

Sometimes they're adults, professional grown-ups, who it takes them you know, three or four weeks to process a note and finally do it. It it takes a while sometimes. So, but the the um willingness to try, um so that's what I would say. I don't know if that's helpful. It's hard. Auditioning's hard. It's hard, it's also courage. I tell everybody I really want to say, but it's also courage. They're they're they're doing it during their own. And as far as everything, not so the late as possibly anything that creates some steppings over the light. It's not just you'll remember them two years later and perhaps. Yeah, that happens. But also they don't realize what we mean by putting itself out there because you walk away whether I ever see neural consumer.

You walk away with more yourself personally bad dip. Yeah. And that's hard when you're 10 years older as I'm listening to even because I'm telling you. I was like, Yeah, and I know how hard is it like you're going to be better next time because of this time. So just do it. There's so many talents, but not everybody has the guts and the courage to actually make this life work for them.

[54:43] Audience Member: Yeah.

[54:44] Jessica Stone: Like maybe not just clear.

[54:47] Audience Member: Yeah, I think that's a great point.

[54:49] Jessica Stone: Yeah.

[54:51] Audience Member: From the back.

[54:57] Audience Member: Uh-huh.

[54:58] Audience Member: Ah.

[54:59] Audience Member: The question was if you can direct could direct a high school musical, what would it be?

[55:06] Jessica Stone: Wow, that's really hard. If I could direct a high school musical, well, and are we are we taking out people being sort of precious about content and stuff? It can be like anything, right? Okay, okay. Oh my like a whole lot. Um oh man, that is really, really hard. Because you want something that's got a ton of great parts, right? Like, um I'm gonna say all the things you all know and do. But I mean, this is just an easy one and everyone's probably already done it. You have to do into the woods, right? You have to do into the woods. Um you have to do something like I I mean I would oh my god, I would love to do an Oklahoma with a bunch of and I'm that's so old school I know, but um love to do an Oklahoma with a bunch of teenagers that would be so cute um I did it with you did was the Jud just hilarious and the cowboys are awesome but we could have uh swims to customers oh okay yeah yeah yeah um oh I feel like I have boring answers I that's really hard to to come up what would you that's true wrong answer and let me give you a follow-up question which and I we have to wrap up but I thought we could perhaps end on this I know is I if you talk a little bit about the project you just finished in Atlanta but then also is there a dream project out there that you as a director are dying to do oh god that's I don't have that answer either no you have to dream a little bit I know well you know what's funny I literally so I just finished doing Water for Elephants in Atlanta hopefully we will be tell everybody a little bit more about this project it's uh it's a musical adaptation of the book Water for Elephants and um and it again it happened basically the same month that Kimberly came through so and they're two very different experiences um and it's sort of big and epic and sweeping and there's circus and and a tent and a stampede and a train and an elephant it just there was so many meetings it was so hard it was really hard um, but um, but I love it I love it and so I I hope that it has um I think it might. I think it might have a future life.

[57:47] Gordon Greenberg: Yeah, I think it might.

[57:48] Jessica Stone: All right, we're gonna leave you with that a future life for said Jessica Stone, Water for Elephants. Please join me in thanking the fabulous Jessica Stone.

[58:04] Announcer: You have been listening to the Broadway Teachers Podcast, recorded live at the Broadway Teachers Workshop, an annual program that brings theater teachers together with the Broadway community for behind the scenes classes, workshops, intimate discussions, and Broadway shows in New York City and online. Learn more at www.broadwayteachinggroup.com.