This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:33] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World. I'm Ben Rimalower, thank you.

[0:38] Daniel Nolen: And I'm here with my lovely co-host Daniel Nolen.

[0:41] Ben Rimalower: Today's guest is Tony-winning lyricist and director Scott Wittman here to talk about Sinatra at the Sands. Scott Wittman, together with composer Mark Shaman, won the Tony for Best Score for Hairspray, and was nominated for a 2019 Academy Award for the Place Where Lost Things Go from Mary Poppins Returns. Wittman and Shaman also collaborated on the Broadway musicals Catch Me If You Can and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, as well as songs for Smash and Martin Short's Fame Becomes Me, which Scott also directed.

[1:10] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:10] Ben Rimalower: Along with Patti LuPone on Broadway and every other solo show Patti has done since 1992. Each and every one of them the greatest night in his history. Scott also directed Bridget Everett's Rock Bottom at Joe's Pub and the Jackie Curtis Kaleidoscope, Jukebox Jackie at La Mama. Scott's gonna chat with us about more of his work, downtown and uptown, and the live show business treasure that inspired so much of his career, Sinatra at the Sands.

[1:41] Daniel Nolen: Today's been a big day for me. It's the first time I've left the house in like three days.

[1:46] Ben Rimalower: Yes, God.

[1:47] Daniel Nolen: So this is my question. Because like my response to that was so like, oh I love that.

[1:52] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:53] Daniel Nolen: And I mean, are we just like the two like bulimic girls that like compare notes and like how much weight they've lost each other? Or do we just like get like our like it's each other's like yeah, yeah.

[2:07] Ben Rimalower: I mean, um, how like do like I feel like I'll say things like that and people well, I don't know, with me, I'm weird because like I think people think of me as being so extroverted that like they're not on the lookout for like isolation patterns.

[2:23] Daniel Nolen: But I feel like I can imagine you saying that and people being like, Daniel, I'm worried.

[2:28] Ben Rimalower: Right. Or when I usually say that, people are like, Well, that's okay, you know, you need time to recharge sometimes. And I'm like, this is not like me needing this every now and then. This is like what I need most of the time.

[2:38] Daniel Nolen: I feel like if I go out, I need minimum three nights of downtime to like compensate.

[2:45] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[2:45] Daniel Nolen: And if I have like a big marathon kind of like days in a row or whatever, then they can make that a week.

[2:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[2:51] Daniel Nolen: You know, and um But I think it is like um, you know, I definitely value my alone time and like you were saying about reading your book. I feel like nowadays, even when I'm home watching TV almost intimidates me because I'm like, there's so much to watch. What do I watch? What if I'm what if I make the wrong decision? What if I don't like it?

[3:12] Ben Rimalower: Oh, did I talk to you about Crashing, by the way?

[3:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[3:14] Ben Rimalower: I need to watch that.

[3:15] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[3:17] Ben Rimalower: It's like I get so.

[3:19] Daniel Nolen: But it should go to the tall list. What's the Marilyn May song?

[3:23] Ben Rimalower: Everyone every show here kind of step to the rear.

[3:26] Daniel Nolen: Uh keep moving boys.

[3:29] Ben Rimalower: Uh you know, and I'm just like if I I always feel guilty and like have this weird thing where like if I start a show, like I have to finish the season even if I don't like it, because if not I feel like I haven't met something.

[3:43] Daniel Nolen: I need to give that away.

[3:44] Ben Rimalower: I have given that up so hard.

[3:46] Daniel Nolen: Same with books.

[3:46] Ben Rimalower: Desperate, it started with Desperate Housewives.

[3:48] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I that final season, and I was like, you know what? I'm d I'm good. I'm done.

[3:52] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[3:53] Daniel Nolen: And now I'm so free.

[3:55] Ben Rimalower: Newsroom, I love that show so much. But like halfway through the series finale, I was like, I'm good.

[3:57] Daniel Nolen: The series finale?

[4:04] Ben Rimalower: Series finale.

[4:06] Daniel Nolen: But I was like, it's 20 minutes, I'll never get back.

[4:09] Ben Rimalower: And I don't do it.

[4:10] Daniel Nolen: Where maybe you're this way because I gave up on The Politician after the first episode.

[4:13] Ben Rimalower: No, I watched like two and a half episodes.

[4:17] Daniel Nolen: But I was like, just the Ryan Murphy writing was like getting me down. Like it's like one thing on those genre things like American Horror Story or Pose, even, you know, that are like you kind of forgive some of like the bad writing.

[4:30] Ben Rimalower: But like I needed better material in The Politician, even though the performances were great.

[4:35] Daniel Nolen: I mean, and Gwyneth Paltrow becoming a cigarette smoking 50-year-old, like settling into that.

[4:42] Ben Rimalower: I'm so ready to just like fully embrace Gwyneth.

[4:46] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[4:46] Ben Rimalower: Well, you know, The Politician came out, I was like, oh, I of course I'm gonna watch this, I need to. But then I was so relieved when everyone told me how bad it was, because like, oh thank god I really like everyone's telling me how great it is.

[4:56] Daniel Nolen: I mean the majority of people I've talked to say what you're doing.

[4:58] Ben Rimalower: That's because you talk to like cooler um people.

[5:01] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[5:01] Ben Rimalower: Like you're crawling Spotify, like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren friends are like cooler, and so they have better taste than they're telling you not to watch The Politician.

[5:13] Daniel Nolen: Right. Whereas my like basic bitch, like Mayor Pete, like Amy Klobuchar, like friends who are like on Apple Music or like, you know, like playing their CDs, are like, The Politician is so good.

[5:29] Ben Rimalower: There's musical numbers and there's Broadway stars.

[5:33] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[5:34] Ben Rimalower: And for some reason they're from the north.

[5:36] Daniel Nolen: Because cool people aren't coastal.

[5:38] Ben Rimalower: Even though on it it's so racist of me to say that because all these people are coastal.

[5:42] Daniel Nolen: It's not racist, it's regionist.

[5:44] Ben Rimalower: I like to just use racist to mean all kinds of prejudice.

[5:47] Daniel Nolen: But I guess that's not coin.

[5:49] Ben Rimalower: That's woke. You know where I stole it? It was from South Park.

[5:51] Daniel Nolen: And I guess it's just like not cool anymore.

[5:53] Ben Rimalower: Anyway.

[5:54] Daniel Nolen: It was like fun to be that in like to alienating the audience.

[5:59] Ben Rimalower: My grandfather used to love to quote this line that he supposedly Arthur Lawrence said to Stephen Sondheim after Sunday in the Park with George, which was uh I can only do it in my grandfather's voice. He'd be like, uh Steven, you're getting further and further from your audience.

[6:15] Daniel Nolen: Really?

[6:16] Ben Rimalower: Um, which I Arthur would never have called him Steven, so I was just not uh you know, it had to be if not apocryphal, at least altered.

[6:23] Daniel Nolen: Arthur Lawrence.

[6:24] Ben Rimalower: Um although as my grandfather would say, Grandpa Skitch, never let accuracy interfere with a good story.

[6:30] Daniel Nolen: That's true.

[6:31] Ben Rimalower: It's true.

[6:32] Daniel Nolen: Certainly, um Elaine Stritch knew that better than anyone.

[6:36] Ben Rimalower: It's so funny now because oh, part of my deep dive videos. Uh I'll take questions when I'm done.

[6:45] Daniel Nolen: I was watching all these Elaine Stritch interviews, and I always I've watched everything Elaine Stritch did that was on film or television or bootleg between 1984 and her death in not 2014, she hasn't been dead that long.

[7:01] Ben Rimalower: When did she die?

[7:02] Daniel Nolen: Well, whenever it was 2015 or 16.

[7:05] Ben Rimalower: I think it was yeah, what uh everything she did in those years, starting in 84, I've watched a hundred times, and I'm obsessed with like Elaine Stritch when she was like young and like still had like a like viable, like pliable belt voice, and was like Merman's understudy like on Broadway like in the 50s.

[7:20] Daniel Nolen: But I don't like obviously I love Elaine and Company more than life, and I love her British her brickcom.

[7:27] Ben Rimalower: But I don't like her interviews from the 70s where like I don't she's like skinnier and younger, and I like Elaine when she's like, I'm an old bitch, yeah, and I don't need you to like me.

[7:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, but I don't like her when she's like well, you know what I'm trying to like flirt with David Letterman and making jokes about how still impossible it is to like redo your house in Sag Harbor.

[7:53] Ben Rimalower: Right, right.

[7:53] Daniel Nolen: Like, I don't like that.

[7:54] Ben Rimalower: And I also realized watching I bravely dared to go into some of those interviews from that era.

[8:00] Daniel Nolen: I was like, because she's lying a lot.

[8:02] Ben Rimalower: It's like when she's starting to kind of flirt with quitting drinking, but like she's sort of like going back and forth, and like it's so transparent, and like she like brings it up inappropriately and like shares too much about her journey with like the AA and diabetes.

[8:18] Daniel Nolen: Um that was uh something I I've had to make peace with.

[8:23] Ben Rimalower: But I think my love for Elaine Stritch really began at the Folly's concert in 1985 when she came into rehearsal in those shorts and dug around in her personal barbershop.

[8:38] Daniel Nolen: Not a dry eye in the house, it's Broadway history, and there's Stritch injecting her thigh and peeling a banana and eating prunes with a fork.

[8:50] Ben Rimalower: Oh.

[8:51] Daniel Nolen: So good.

[8:53] Ben Rimalower: Okay, broken, broken red, wow, we're so thrilled to be here today on Broken Records with the legendary Tony Award-winning lyricist director, just man about town, masterful rack and Scott Wittman.

[9:10] Scott Wittman: You can't tell I'm blushing on radio.

[9:12] Ben Rimalower: I think maybe they can.

[9:13] Daniel Nolen: Um it's hot here.

[9:15] Ben Rimalower: Uh that's all the blood in Scott's rosy cheeks.

[9:19] Daniel Nolen: Um, well, we're so grateful to you for joining us.

[9:22] Scott Wittman: Is it called Broken Records?

[9:23] Ben Rimalower: Broken Record Records.

[9:24] Scott Wittman: That's cute.

[9:24] Ben Rimalower: It's what were the albums you wouldn't shut up about?

[9:27] Scott Wittman: Right.

[9:27] Ben Rimalower: Okay, well, this is one I wouldn't shut up on.

[9:29] Scott Wittman: So you were the broken record and you wore the record out by playing it.

[9:33] Ben Rimalower: And if we really want to take a third level, maybe it like, you know, shattered previously existing um standards for whatever reason.

[9:42] Scott Wittman: I have a lot of stories about this record.

[9:43] Ben Rimalower: You do.

[9:44] Scott Wittman: Well, we're talking today about Sinatra at the Sands.

[9:47] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[9:48] Scott Wittman: Fabulous.

[9:49] Ben Rimalower: Uh Peak Sinatra from 66.

[9:52] Scott Wittman: 66, right.

[9:53] Ben Rimalower: And uh of course at the fabled Sands Hotel and Casino in Vegas.

[9:57] Scott Wittman: Now no longer.

[9:58] Ben Rimalower: What is that?

[9:58] Scott Wittman: The win now?

[9:59] Ben Rimalower: No, they tore the whole thing down, I think, eventually, after Howard Hughes bought it.

[10:04] Scott Wittman: But uh he ruled that place for all those years, and that's where you they, you know, the that's where oceans, you know, it was the round one, right?

[10:12] Ben Rimalower: It's like uh a circular tower.

[10:14] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[10:15] Ben Rimalower: Um the Copa Room.

[10:16] Scott Wittman: The Copa Room.

[10:18] Ben Rimalower: Now, did you ever see any of these kinds of acts at the Sands?

[10:21] Scott Wittman: Not at the Sands, because that's a little before my time.

[10:24] Ben Rimalower: Excuse me.

[10:24] Scott Wittman: Pardon me, darling.

[10:25] Ben Rimalower: Watch it.

[10:27] Scott Wittman: You're timeless to me.

[10:30] Ben Rimalower: Um, but I did see Sinatra many times in my life.

[10:33] Scott Wittman: So I slept out in front of Carnegie Hall one night.

[10:36] Ben Rimalower: Were you the only one?

[10:38] Scott Wittman: No, no, the lion's down. That's before you could, you know, you had to sleep out inside to get a ticket.

[10:43] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[10:43] Scott Wittman: So uh yeah, and I did. I saw him at Carnegie Hall.

[10:47] Ben Rimalower: I saw him many times in Vegas.

[10:48] Scott Wittman: Well that was that was later then after you were in the middle of the city.

[10:51] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:53] Scott Wittman: You were a kid when this album came out.

[10:54] Ben Rimalower: Yes, I was twelve.

[10:55] Scott Wittman: Did you get this album when it first came out?

[10:58] Ben Rimalower: Yes, I did because my parents had it.

[11:00] Scott Wittman: And um I used to play um play it constantly and pretend I was in in the audience that I would play cocktail lounge.

[11:09] Ben Rimalower: Literally I just had maraschino cherries and martini glasses.

[11:17] Scott Wittman: And what what was this one I mean was it Judy at Carnegie Hall? Were there others like this that made up your

[11:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I like I l I w I definitely uh uh had a thing for live albums.

[11:29] Scott Wittman: Well and then you became the master.

[11:30] Ben Rimalower: Everyone on the show would have picked Judy at Carnegie Hall, so I tried to do it.

[11:35] Scott Wittman: Yes.

[11:37] Ben Rimalower: Well, so what i if you were the you were this gay kid listening to Judy at Carnegie Hall and whoever else at Carnegie Hall that you were listening to. What what uh how did you butcher it?

[11:48] Scott Wittman: Well I had an older brother, and first of all, my father was a was a bit of a uh uh let's say a rapscallion.

[11:59] Ben Rimalower: And he um he uh n he hung out with uh um he used to hang out in a bar in New York called Tootshore, and that was where uh Sinatra hung out and and uh Jackie Gleason and all those people.

[12:12] Scott Wittman: That was their clubhouse outside of Jilly's.

[12:14] Ben Rimalower: There was Jilly's which is was Sinatra's bar, which was next to the Alvin Theater, now the what Neil Simon and so yes, home of Hairspray.

[12:23] Scott Wittman: Yes.

[12:24] Ben Rimalower: One of Scott's but it's a r it but now it's the Russian one.

[12:27] Scott Wittman: There's like a Russian Russian samovar or the Breshnikov phone's part of it that was Jilly's and in fact he mentions that on this album oh many times yeah in fact if you go upstairs there because I used to would befriended them during Hairspray obviously and um there's still wallpaper on the wall that were the uh you know it says Juliet Prouse on a phone number and stuff wow so um and you could also buy um fur coats there because they were uh Russia this is now you can buy they had fur pelts in the back there in the kitchen that you could anyway that's a done instead of buying a t-shirt wow so my father would hang out I used to hang out with so there was like a mystique about that Sinatra thing for you yes and uh and this was he was 50 when he made this record right but in in in his in his whole life I I think this is this was probably the pinnacle of his all of his power you know um it was uh it had uh Count Basie was the man uh Quincy Jones did all the arrangements and conducted and it was him for 90 minutes on on a stage singing all the classic yeah Sinatra songs and it was also the first time I think he sang The Shadow of Your Smile you know he had learned it like three days before he says I was the same this morning he said it's a new song yeah right yeah the movie had just come out I think there's a very pretty song a brand new song as a matter of fact The Shadow of Your Smile when you have gone.

[14:28] Scott Wittman: And so uh so anyway, the and then there's the the infamous uh they call it the T monologue that he does in the middle where terribly written. It's it's uh partially racist. What is that accent he's doing? It's him, he there he's doing making fun of Sammy Davis, and it's sort of like a Rochester like a sort of uh, you know, it's it definitely has a racial overtone because he always treated Sammy like uh like you know, uh like the sidekick.

[14:59] Ben Rimalower: Right, right.

[15:00] Scott Wittman: I used to call him my shadow. Shadow of my smile. Um and like I mean, before this album came out, you know, if I had said to you, young little Scott Wittman, like, oh, you know, uh Frank Sinatra's's got a new album. Would you would you have been as excited or did this change it for?

[15:16] Scott Wittman: I knew I it was always on like when my parents would have people over in the background on the you know on the the Victrola. With a lot of these same songs. Yes, but different arrangements. They were. I I was just understanding what an arrangement, you know, what it was. And and that record is so exciting at right at the beginning because it has uh Basie's band and then the announcement. Yeah, and then uh he comes out and he says, How did all these people get my room? How did all these people get in my room?

[15:52] Scott Wittman: Come fly with me, we'll fly, we'll fly away. If you can use some exotic booze, there's a bar and far Bombay. Come on, fly with me. We'll fly, we'll fly away. Anyway, it was very thrilling.

[16:12] Ben Rimalower: It is, it is. And I mean, did you at that point want to be in show business? Did you want to be Frank Sinatra's?

[16:20] Scott Wittman: I didn't want to be Frank Sinatra's, but I wanted to be in show business. And I was going to school in New York on the on the on the weekends. I would go to the American Academy of Dramatic Arts. So I would take the bus in from Nyack and and I would go to school. I would run across 42nd Street by myself. I'm telling you, it was a scary back then. This is in 1967, 68. And then um I would then I would go to a matinee after a class. So so uh so I think I saw a lot. I just saw that year, I think I saw like Sweet Charity and all that name.

[16:55] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[16:57] Scott Wittman: And um, so we did did this lead you into like a deep Sinatra obsession, or was it then all the live albums and and show business lore?

[17:06] Scott Wittman: Well, again, no, I think it did it did. Uh definitely did. Um, I mean, I thought he was quite I I kind of aspired to it. I thought it was the world of you know, tuxedos and smoking and Jack Daniels and and the showgirls. It seemed to sum it all that up or mixed it up in my head. Enough that I wanted it. Like O like Oceans Eleven, was that your Yeah, I not so much. I mean, because when I I maybe not I I don't think I saw that as a kid. I definitely saw James Bond movies and things like that. But once I knew this album and I played it constantly when I was playing Cocktail Lounge, um it be I did I used to know it by heart, like all the licks, you know, all the horn hits and things like that.

[17:52] Ben Rimalower: And what what were then the next albums that you listened to that were sort of because you had loved this, you went to the well then the next album he made after this is uh is the exact opposite of it because it was the Joe Beam album, which is just him and Joe Beam when it's very delicate and very uh light and it didn't have it doesn't have the balls that this album had. Were you were you there for that?

[18:14] Scott Wittman: Oh yes, my god, yeah, yeah. Then I became a fan. And then of just the artist. Yeah, of him. And then I then I would buy the records. And even though I was still buying, because I think this is the same year was like uh the Beatles, I think maybe Revolver. Trying to remember. I it may have been Revolver and The Beach Boy, stuff like that. I thought I still bought singles of those, but this was an album I would put on from beginning to end.

[18:39] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[18:40] Scott Wittman: And what what do when you would think about being in that kind of show business, what role did you see yourself playing?

[18:47] Scott Wittman: Um showgirl? I I I maybe I don't know. I knew I wanted to be part of it. Yeah. And for a long time I thought I was gonna be a dancer, you know, and I came to New York to do that. But um I didn't enjoy being in front of the mirror all the time, and so it didn't was not something that took hold of me until I figured out, oh, I much prefer being on the other side of the table.

[19:09] Ben Rimalower: So how so I mean, so you were watching Sweet Charity that may think I want to be one of those boys. Where am I going? Well can't have it all. Go back the next week. Um, but so then and the but you were taking real acting classes, nothing.

[19:24] Scott Wittman: Yeah, I was, yeah, yeah, in the daytime, yeah, on Saturday mornings. Yeah. And then so then did you come right to New York after school?

[19:29] Scott Wittman: I went to college first, and then I then I came to New York and then uh to be a dancer.

[19:29] Ben Rimalower: To be a dancer, yeah.

[19:35] Scott Wittman: And I I auditioned for Fosse and did all that.

[19:38] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[19:41] Scott Wittman: And got far. Got because every because they that was a famous combination that they taught, and they used to teach it at um I used to go to Luigi, and they taught that combination there was called T for Two, and it was he used it for every audition. And so I knew it well enough that I got on to the next thing. And he came up on the stage and put his hand on my shoulder and talked to me and and uh but didn't make the next cut in that. So that's when I said, you know what, if I can't get into that, then who you know what's what's left there. So then I I started putting acts together for people and tried to imitate the album synaptic.

[20:16] Ben Rimalower: And so what were those first acts that you were putting together?

[20:19] Scott Wittman: I put I had an act together with uh um five female comedians. It was called The High Heeled Women, and it it was um and it played l uh constantly, like in the the duplex, and then there was another place called Once Upon a Stove, which was on the east side. Once upon a stove. But that's when the city was lousy with cabarets, they were on one on every corner.

[20:43] Ben Rimalower: So and were they crowded?

[20:45] Scott Wittman: Yeah, packed, like uh Reno Sweeney's and I worked, I did work on Edie Beale's, that we knew that. Yeah, David Lewis. Um who else do I do back then? Oh, a lot of them. I did the QA's, I wrote all the QA's, which I know you do.

[21:03] Ben Rimalower: I do them, I did them for E.

[21:04] Scott Wittman: D. Yours were fake questions.

[21:07] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, so Table 27 wants to know what your favorite movie is.

[21:11] Scott Wittman: Star Waz. So that was that. That was a Reno Sweeney's. Yes. And um, and then how did you get connected with Bette Midler?

[21:24] Scott Wittman: Um I uh lived across the hall from a Harlett. And um they were about today, they had that's another great live album. Uh Live Alast, yeah. Yeah. She called up the doctor to see what's the matter.

[21:48] Scott Wittman: Oh, he said, Oh my god! Can you move it? Can you lie? Oh mama, oh my god, you can't move it. Oh mama, oh mama, and mom was live. I would consider that Sinatra one, the bet one, definitely Johnny Cash at Folsom. Yeah, that's all great. Those are fabulous live albums. Live albums. Um Christine never saw the Cynagrill, I would say. But um, yeah, so I lived across the street from a harlot. And uh no, the one I met at your house is Zora, not Ula. Zora wasn't a Harlett, but she was a high-heeled woman.

[22:33] Ben Rimalower: Oh, well, there you go.

[22:34] Scott Wittman: She was never a Harlett. No. I've been thinking about her wrong all this time. No, Ula Hedwig was the Harlett. Um so I must have met Ula too, and then she's a little bit. Yeah, yeah, always have been around. Um, so you're still friends with her. And then so she was already a harlot when you met her.

[22:47] Scott Wittman: Yes, she was already harlett. Yeah, there was a whole group of people that I became friends with because they were all in hair together. So um, so I knew them from that group of people. And and is that around the time you met Mark?

[23:01] Scott Wittman: I met Mark in Marie's Crisis in 1976.

[23:05] Ben Rimalower: Oh hello.

[23:07] Scott Wittman: And um and was he working with Bette already then?

[23:11] Scott Wittman: He did that because I knew the Harlett's. And so they needed, they were putting their own act together, which was called Formally the Harlett. Formally the Harlot. And they were playing Reno Sweeney's. And so Mark became their musical director. And then Bette uh very smartly decided she was gonna do a very small tour, which was only clubs. And she played the Copa in New York, and she played the Roxy in LA. Oh it was a small show, and the Harlett's she had the Harlett's open for her.

[23:39] Ben Rimalower: Oh, that's cool.

[23:40] Scott Wittman: So Mark played for them, and then they became, you know, then she started to say, hey, he's cheap, and I'll use him. So there you go. And but then that's when you wrote stuff for her, right?

[23:51] Scott Wittman: I wrote for her later. Like um, I I did a little bit on one album called Thighs and Whisper. Oh yes, we're obsessed with how you know that album. And then uh on the way here, actually. Yes, the the the um what was big noise from Wineka and some special lyrics in there. Oh my nose. I've got the way to play from never be the same. I'd love to come back a little bit longer, he saw the uh then later on, like uh little one-offs here and there, and then the last time I did the tour, the one the divine intervention tour.

[24:47] Ben Rimalower: Oh, okay.

[24:47] Scott Wittman: That was the that that's big time Bette. It was big time Bette. Well, I guess she was already kind of big time at that point.

[24:53] Scott Wittman: Oh, she was huge. I saw I was telling I I had dinner with her like uh last week name dropping. But I I had uh just before Patty, and I was saying I'd do it on film. Patti LuPone tomorrow night at Patty's doing Carnegie, you know, Philharmonic Hall. And I said, I saw her there on New Year's Eve bet there in 1972, where she did two shows back to back.

[25:08] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[25:08] Scott Wittman: On New Year's Eve in 1972 with Barry played the before. So that that's a pretty pretty big well, I guess it's geographically it's close, but it's a big jump up from the Continental Baths.

[25:26] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, but she had the the album had just come out, the the Divine Miss M, and then she was now playing it uh the venues got bigger, so she's playing like Symphony Hall in Boston and so was that the same show she'd been doing at the baths pretty much at that point.

[25:42] Scott Wittman: Well, uh yeah, it got it got bigger, it just got bigger. She didn't have harlettes at the baths.

[25:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[25:47] Scott Wittman: So but this had you know, Melissa Manchester was in that show, and and so yeah.

[25:52] Ben Rimalower: Oh, but not as a harlet, just she was harlett.

[25:54] Scott Wittman: And so who were which were the harlettes that did the formerly the Harlett? It was uh Charlotte Crosley, uh-huh, who I eventually gave a job in Hairspray. She was motormouth. Oh Sharon Redd, who was a big disco queen. She had a lot of disco hits, she's passed, and Ulla. So yeah. And um and then later Linda Hart and stuff.

[26:15] Scott Wittman: Linda Hart, who's who I went to Vegas to see Sinatra with when I was really young. We drove to Vegas together, and uh, we he was playing the golden nugget, which was small. And I got to the front, made her D, and Linda says, G let give him all the money you have. And of course I didn't have much, but I took uh like wads of cash or singles, it looked like a lot, it wasn't. And 'cause our table was practically in the kitchen. So uh we gave him all the money and he went down and kicked people out of the table. He said, These are guests of Barbara Sinatra and threw them out and sat us there. And I was literally he sang almost I was sitting right there and he was there. So he sang almost the whole show to me, which was not unlike this this set list that he that This was like in the eighties?

[27:04] Scott Wittman: This no, this is in nineteen seventy eight. So he had my way but already but yes in New York, New York, I think by then, right?

[27:15] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[27:15] Scott Wittman: I'm not sure. Maybe yeah, yeah. So okay, what and he was in okay voice, but he was still uh really fantastic. How would you describe it? The essence of Sinatra, what made it a great thing, you know, even then because he had this casual air about him, but it was very powerful. And also uh it seemed like he was making every uh he didn't, you know, no one was sitting there backstage writing, hey I got some jokes for you.

[27:40] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[27:40] Scott Wittman: It was all off the top of his head. And he could he was very, you know, loose and you know, and uh but the the musicality and the acting was I th it was such a an amazing thing. Like when he did his saloon section of the show where he just said you know, uh and then it would the whole show would sort of shrink down to him on a stool with a piano, smoked through the whole thing. Yeah. And um had a drink in the other hand, and then sang, you know, one for my baby, Angel Eyes, all of them were together. So and then he would sing at the end, excuse me, voila, disappear, and then it would walk out of the light. Wow. But I mean, he had no gay guy telling him to walk out of the light.

[28:21] Scott Wittman: That was all his theatricality.

[28:23] Ben Rimalower: And so, like, so when you would do the shows over the years that you created, what is it that you take from the inspiration of the Sinatra at the Sands that you imparted to these different acts?

[28:37] Scott Wittman: Well, if for like Patti, it's just, you know, she has that. It's like a command that they have. I mean, Patti LuPone is such a powerful performer that she has some qualities that are very similar to his. And so the structure of his show, you, as Bridget Everett and I like to say, it's slam slam tender, slam slam tender. That's a secret of cabaret. That's the secret of cabaret.

[29:08] Ben Rimalower: The one you taught me it was, um, but still.

[29:10] Scott Wittman: But still, any segue is just but still. But I mean, there must be more. I mean, I see so many crappy cabaret acts all the time, you know. And then you see something, I mean, the one you did for Patti that opened 54 Below, Faraway Places. I still think was one of the most sensational things I've ever seen. Yeah, you know, and I've also seen that one four times or something, you know. But I and the album is such a great capture of it, but it's hard to, um, it's more than just the, you know, energy level of slam slam tender. What no, no, you have to go from like he does on that album, you have to go from a beginning to an end. Something has to change chemically. And so he does that in this, and he and she, Patti's capable of that. You literally can feel the neurons changing in the air. So by the end of the evening, you're at a different place than you were at the start of it, even though you're not sure why.

[30:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[30:14] Scott Wittman: But there's this sort of clothesline that you've hung things on so that they make sense chemically. I mean, as the audience, we're not sure why, but you guys are thinking when you do it.

[30:28] Ben Rimalower: Yes, of course.

[30:29] Scott Wittman: You know, when people show me these song lists for cabaret shows they want to do, and it has like a plot. Oh no, no, that's horrendous, you know. So it's a delicate little, I call it a clothesline, like even when you sometimes work with Bette and you do some ballads together, I said now the sun has to come out. Do you know what I mean? So there has to be a release and an attention, and that's what the clothesline is to me. But those, you know, the release. And the opening numbers should be sort of established that, but the release intention is like sort of moment to moment. What is it that what's that magic you're working that the end feels somewhere different?

[31:07] Scott Wittman: It's, I can only describe it as a release of something, like what he does on this when he sings, uh, my kind of town. It's time I leave Chicago. It's scrubbing my sleeve, Chicago is horrifically building Chicago in one town that won't let you down.

[31:42] Scott Wittman: It's time. Oh Chicago, Chicago, Chicago, my time, a time. Chicago.

[32:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[32:02] Scott Wittman: It sort of sums it all up. And it's, uh, and so, but it's like, uh, I don't know, it's a release of something where you feel like, um, they've taken you in and, uh, they're gonna leave you, uh, with some sort of feeling that you, but it's a feeling that you both have together, the performer and the artist. And so it's sort of, um, I know it's ephemeral, it just doesn't, you're not sure what it is, but you know you've been changed by it.

[32:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[32:35] Scott Wittman: And what do, what like are there any sort of, uh, like songs that are like good catch-alls when you don't know that you've saved your ass when you've, you know, needed that Hail Mary to get there?

[32:47] Ben Rimalower: Well, you know, what are like the tricks?

[32:49] Scott Wittman: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I, uh, Patti, you know, I've done so many for Patti, you know, but they, you know, I always try to find something that is, that's for her, the lyric comes first. So I try to find something and lyric-driven, lyric-driven, so that it has a, uh, it has, um, uh, uh, it, that becomes the acting of it, it's not so much important as the big notes. Although they come, but they come from the meaning of what the song is. And I always try to find a song at the end that says that's redemptive. So like the Leonard Cohen song, Bird on a Wire, or the song we wrote with Bridget, this one, you know, the, um, uh, take me home, the one.

[33:26] Ben Rimalower: Yes, that you and Mark were.

[33:40] Scott Wittman: No, first a hand to guide you, then a heart beside you, then the welcome story I'll take you home. I'll take you home.

[33:40] Scott Wittman: I'll take you home. I'll take you home, I'll take you, I'll take you, I'll take you, I'll take you, I'll take you, I'll take you home.

[34:53] Scott Wittman: There's a redemption at the end.

[34:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[34:54] Scott Wittman: And, and c in the Philharmonic one, that it was that too. You know, it has just, there's something kind of I've been, this night has set me free.

[35:03] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[35:04] Scott Wittman: That that's such an interesting way to put it about the night set me free. I mean, what, what are things you've seen or albums that newer things that you listen to that you feel have given you that kind of release?

[35:16] Scott Wittman: I don't know. I think in Broadway you have to have that somehow. You know, whether it's joy or pathos, there has to be a release at the end. But in a way, in a way it's more obvious to get there. It's not a cocktail.

[35:29] Ben Rimalower: It's not a cocktail.

[35:30] Scott Wittman: Too bad. Cocktail. They were pouring bourbon, but today we got nothing. Um, but if you have a story in a show in a play, it's more natural that you, you were talking about stories and acts. It's not so much a story as a, as I said, it's a clothesline.

[35:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[35:46] Scott Wittman: But that, but that song at the end has to take all those things on the line and put them together at the end.

[35:54] Ben Rimalower: And what about when you go see something like a rock and roll act, you know, not a cabaret show by any.

[36:00] Scott Wittman: I don't like Springsteen's show. I mean, that was incredibly cathartic. I mean, that was, uh, that was poetry that's, but that was maybe different because it was on Broadway and it was more, well, I've seen him in many, uh.

[36:04] Ben Rimalower: And is it always like that?

[36:12] Scott Wittman: No, that this was him because it was so bare boned. But that's there, that's the like Patti had it, Sinatra certainly has it, Judy Garland had their lion tamers. In other words, that audience said Bruce Springsteen went in there thinking they were gonna go bruise, bruise, bruise, but he whipped them into submission. He doesn't sing any of the hits, and he basically is telling stories from a book. So, uh, there's very little of that bruise, bruise. And so that finally they, he whips, he beats them into submission to understand that this is what the evening is.

[36:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, you know, and that Patti does that in a, in, uh certainly at 54 Below or any of those places. You come in there, you know, and you think, oh my gosh, you know, when is Argentina? When is Argentina?

[36:58] Scott Wittman: But you find out there's a whole meal around the well. We went to our friend's house and to watch the Tonys, and then afterwards he put on, uh, Matters of the Heart.

[37:06] Ben Rimalower: Oh, and that's such a great example of that.

[37:08] Scott Wittman: But it's like, but I remember seeing that show, and it was so unlike anything you ever would have expected.

[37:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that was it.

[37:14] Scott Wittman: That a lot of that was the great Dick Gallagher.

[37:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[37:17] Scott Wittman: Um, because all those arrangements, we wanted it to sound like, um, Debussy or anyone.

[37:22] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[37:23] Scott Wittman: So it was all this, that little quartet.

[37:25] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yeah.

[37:26] Scott Wittman: Yeah, and they, and I, I don't know. I mean, I love that, I love that show, but it wasn't what the audience wasn't expecting that.

[37:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I don't think she belted anything except Back to Before was in it, I think, wasn't it?

[37:37] Scott Wittman: Yeah, Back to Before.

[37:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[37:39] Scott Wittman: I mean, I don't know. I think that beautiful, uh, she does on that album, A Sand and Water.

[37:43] Ben Rimalower: Oh yeah, which is all like the most legato, like breathy version of it, where you hardly can believe you barely can hear her breathe.

[37:53] Scott Wittman: Yeah, the air that I breathe also exactly.

[37:59] Scott Wittman: All I need is the air that I breathe into love you. All I need is the air that I breathe.

[38:07] Scott Wittman: All I need is the air that I breathe.

[38:32] Scott Wittman: But we did that, we recorded that on 46th Street, and she was friends with Judy Dench then.

[38:41] Ben Rimalower: Uh huh.

[38:41] Scott Wittman: And they used to come to the recording session. So she was in Amy's view. And so they would come and because we recorded it like in one, two nights or something.

[38:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[38:51] Scott Wittman: It wasn't like take after take. She would have to, she would do everything from, you weren't comping vocals. It was from beginning to end, pretty much.

[39:00] Ben Rimalower: It is pretty.

[39:02] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[39:02] Ben Rimalower: She doesn't do that show much, though.

[39:04] Scott Wittman: She doesn't. I think two few years ago I went down to DC to see her do it just because it had been so long. I mean, I was amazed she could still sing it in a way, almost more than the big Belty things.

[39:15] Scott Wittman: Oh, and she sings Alone Again in that, doesn't she?

[39:17] Ben Rimalower: In the show, yeah, Alone Again Naturally. There's a few great songs that I, I should ask you if there's any bonus tracks that are anywhere.

[39:25] Scott Wittman: Yeah, um. Uh yeah, what is that?

[39:27] Scott Wittman: Another New Year's Eve.

[39:28] Ben Rimalower: Another old anxiety.

[39:29] Scott Wittman: Another old anxiety, yeah. Alone again naturally and, um, last time I saw Richard.

[39:33] Ben Rimalower: Last time I saw Richard, which was so complicated to learn.

[39:36] Scott Wittman: Yeah, the, and that's a, that's a fun lyric for Patti LuPone. It's wordy.

[39:41] Ben Rimalower: It's wordy.

[39:42] Scott Wittman: When we were watching the Philharmonic show, I was thinking after, um, when she started Sleepy Man. It was like after doing the worst pies in London and easily assimilated it. And I was like, oh, she doesn't have to do diction on this one. But okay, so, uh, it's funny just to hear you say like, um, Debussy and Ravel, because you know, I'm so like just a musical theater like whore with like a limited, you know. I mean, I'll go out and I'll explore, uh, Ravel because you know that now I know I like Matters of the Heart. Maybe I'll like DC, you know.

[40:20] Scott Wittman: You know, yeah.

[40:20] Ben Rimalower: So what I think that record starts with Ravel, though.

[40:24] Scott Wittman: Is that what that is?

[40:24] Ben Rimalower: I thought it was Frank Wildhorn.

[40:26] Scott Wittman: No, no, it's just, uh, it goes before she goes into the Love Makes the World. There's stores storybook from the music before.

[40:33] Scott Wittman: That's actual Ravel.

[40:35] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes.

[40:35] Scott Wittman: Oh, so I've been listening to Ravel all this time.

[40:39] Scott Wittman: Um, but you know, but I always do that. It's like, uh, I guess what people call them mood boards or whatever, just what the feeling you want.

[40:46] Ben Rimalower: Oh, that's fascinating.

[40:47] Scott Wittman: But that, but that's a huge asset part of what you bring to something as a director is you have such a wide, but I think I imagine you at every age, you always have had a really wide palette of musical tastes and knowledge and exposure. I mean, is that something that you just sought out for yourself, your whole thing?

[41:06] Scott Wittman: I did. I had a very smart, uh, brother and sister, and so, you know, they exposed me to things because we were all ten years apart.

[41:13] Ben Rimalower: Oh.

[41:13] Scott Wittman: I had different versions of it. You know, my sister took me to theater when I was a kid, and then my brother was a, you know, a sportsman, so I was very part of that life. And so, yeah, there was different stuff coming at me all the time.

[41:26] Ben Rimalower: I mean, that's so often I think what's wrong with like musical theater today is that people, there's so much insularity and things all sound the same and everyone wants to be Sondheim.

[41:35] Scott Wittman: Yeah, or Jason Robert Brown.

[41:37] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[41:37] Scott Wittman: So, but I mean, it's, you know, that people say when something sounds like a musical now, that almost like means it sounds bad because it's just that like I, I've that I shouldn't comment on.

[41:48] Ben Rimalower: No comment.

[41:49] Scott Wittman: No comment.

[41:49] Ben Rimalower: Um, if you like Sondheim, it doesn't comment on living composers. Just wait till they're done.

[41:54] Scott Wittman: Suppose of that awful Fred Ebb.

[41:58] Ben Rimalower: Shit talker.

[41:59] Scott Wittman: Um, well, okay. So what, what so what were the things though that were it, how did you rabbit hole? What did you rabbit hole into from the Sinatra album?

[42:10] Scott Wittman: Um, I guess I, I, it opened me up to A to Count Basie, which I had no idea who he was. And so that was really, I thought, oh my god, that's a really.

[42:16] Ben Rimalower: So did you become a Count Basie fan in the city?

[42:21] Scott Wittman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just put those records on around the house and, uh, and, um, certainly more Sinatra, uh, than, you know, Sammy. I didn't really know about Sammy, but boy is that a great performer.

[42:33] Scott Wittman: And then I said I wanted to see Golden Boy, and I got to see Golden Boy when he was in it. And then I would see him a lot over the years. I saw him at a birthday one where Michael Jackson performed.

[42:46] Daniel Nolen: Oh wow, that was amazing.

[42:47] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I think I've seen that on YouTube.

[42:49] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[42:49] Daniel Nolen: Did it "Mr. Bojangles"?

[42:50] Scott Wittman: Yes, yes.

[42:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[42:51] Scott Wittman: And then I saw all the many Sinatras, and I slept out on the sidewalk of Carnegie Hall and saw him there, the Golden Nugget, then saw him with Liza and the main event.

[43:05] Daniel Nolen: Liza, Frank, and Sammy.

[43:07] Scott Wittman: Yes, yes, yeah.

[43:08] Ben Rimalower: And what was the evolution of Sinatra? Because he's still very handsome on the jacket of Sinatra at the Sands.

[43:17] Scott Wittman: Yeah, well, he had just—oh, and also I was a big fan at that time. There was a soap opera on at night called Peyton Place.

[43:24] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[43:24] Scott Wittman: And Mia Farrow was in that. And so she married him, I think, right after.

[43:26] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[43:31] Scott Wittman: I think they were together. I think when you read about that record, I think in the audience was Mia Farrow and Yul Brynner and all these sort of odd...

[43:38] Daniel Nolen: And Judy Garland, she was in the audience that night.

[43:41] Ben Rimalower: When they talk about these, like I was reading something about Noel Coward in Vegas and the celebrities. Were celebrities just in Vegas all the time to see shows?

[43:49] Scott Wittman: The money was huge.

[43:51] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[43:53] Scott Wittman: So yes, and that was a big comeback for Noel Coward to do that act. He did it at the Sands, too, I think. Or the Desert Inn, maybe. But he did a live album there, and they were all in the audience, Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra's, all of them.

[44:10] Daniel Nolen: Okay, so how did Sinatra evolve then as you watched?

[44:15] Scott Wittman: Well, you know, he obviously was—this is him at his peak powers. I mean, that's it. That's really—all these arrangements are, first of all, they're unbelievable. "I've Got You Under My Skin," all of that is—and the horns on that record are just wild.

[44:25] ♪ Musical number: "I've Got You Under My Skin" — performed by Frank Sinatra's ♪

[45:08] Scott Wittman: But then, you know, obviously, as he grew older and he didn't quite have the vocal power, although I never heard him sound like I wasn't getting my money's worth.

[45:19] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[45:19] Scott Wittman: But then he would have to rely a little bit more on the storytelling as opposed to the power of it.

[45:28] Daniel Nolen: And was that its own...

[45:32] Scott Wittman: That's his own magic, yeah. I mean, I saw him at Carnegie Hall. He was not in great voice, but the concert was fantastic.

[45:42] Ben Rimalower: And what Sinatra song is a great example of that storytelling?

[45:46] Scott Wittman: Well, "One for My Baby," "One for the Road." As I said, "Angel Eyes," all of those. "September of My Years," all of that. You know, "It Was a Very Good Year."

[45:59] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[45:59] Scott Wittman: That's like...

[45:57] ♪ Musical number: "It Was a Very Good Year" — performed by Frank Sinatra's ♪

[46:41] Scott Wittman: And of course, there's the other, the older album where he was—there's an album that's called September of My Years.

[46:46] Ben Rimalower: That's...

[46:46] Scott Wittman: Of course, now I relate to that album. "Beautiful Girl, Walk a Little Slower When You Walk Past Me." All those, yeah, that's a fantastic album because I was trying to figure out what month of my years I'm in right now.

[47:04] Daniel Nolen: It depends when you die.

[47:05] Scott Wittman: That's what you're doing, right? I mean, you might only be in the June of your years and you're just getting it all wrong. But he sang for such a long time, you know. I mean, he stayed in front of the public for a long time, and he would not sing if he couldn't deliver, I don't think.

[47:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[47:21] Scott Wittman: And he always delivered, you know.

[47:23] Daniel Nolen: And what about, like, you know, you talk about the arrangements being so incredible, you know.

[47:27] Scott Wittman: Well, those were Quincy Jones, and he was young. This is probably his first big—you know, I mean, he had done arrangements for us, but this was a real—to have that Count Basie band and the Quincy Jones arrangements, amazing.

[47:41] Ben Rimalower: But I mean, so if this is '66, so if in—I think they recorded it over a period of time. I don't think it's just one performance.

[47:48] Scott Wittman: It was a week of shows that he had done. But he was there almost quite a few months of the year. He was not always in sort of residence there.

[47:57] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[47:57] Scott Wittman: And the other guys would come in and out, Dean, Mark.

[48:00] Ben Rimalower: That's the Rat Pack, yeah.

[48:01] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[48:02] Daniel Nolen: But like, so if in '86 his voice was greatly diminished...

[48:06] Scott Wittman: Yes.

[48:07] Daniel Nolen: Couldn't he still have had equally great arrangements?

[48:10] Scott Wittman: Yeah, and sometimes they would be the wow factor, but he would still be inside that lyric. I think he was not unlike Patti, where he was a storyteller.

[48:19] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[48:19] Scott Wittman: And that's what his gift was. I mean, he was sort of also an amazing musician because he sang like a horn part. You know, so when he's singing, you just can't believe the choices and the breath control, all of that. I mean, he was quite technically proficient.

[48:39] Daniel Nolen: Oh, yeah.

[48:39] Scott Wittman: And also you're talking about longevity of a career that's—you know, he was in front of the public for what, 50 years, 50, 60 years.

[48:48] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[48:49] Scott Wittman: So I mean, and what about him as a musician, you know, singing like a horn, like you know, that so many—cabaret is such a thing of like musical theater people now, you know, where it's not about—it's a recital.

[49:03] Daniel Nolen: It's cheap.

[49:04] Scott Wittman: It's cheap.

[49:06] Daniel Nolen: You know why?

[49:06] Scott Wittman: Because you just sing a high note and the audience goes crazy.

[49:09] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[49:10] Scott Wittman: Because when he was coming up, he sang with the big bands like Benny Goodman. He sang like a horn part. He sang like he—that was in his head.

[49:22] Daniel Nolen: Was that in the '70s and those days when you had Reno Sweeney's and was the finale and above the toaster?

[49:28] Ben Rimalower: What's it called now?

[49:33] Scott Wittman: I don't even know if it's there anymore. It was on the east side, but it had a bookcase that opened and you went inside.

[49:40] Daniel Nolen: Like in the Village?

[49:41] Scott Wittman: No, it was in the East 30s, I think. I forget where it was.

[49:45] Ben Rimalower: I'd like to look it up.

[49:46] Scott Wittman: Like near Grand Central?

[49:49] Daniel Nolen: A little, no, it was maybe Second Avenue.

[49:52] Scott Wittman: Okay.

[49:52] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[49:53] Scott Wittman: There were a lot of them.

[49:54] Daniel Nolen: The '80s, there was the other one that was Yellow Brick Road and Freddy's, and I did cabaret acts in all of them.

[50:02] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[50:03] Scott Wittman: For Laura Canyon, I did hundreds of—and were those rooms like similar to cabaret rooms today? There was just more of them, or did they have something special?

[50:12] Daniel Nolen: They were special.

[50:13] Scott Wittman: So what was it about those rooms that was special? First of all, there's one on 46th Street that was called Brothers and Sisters, which was as big as this room.

[50:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[50:21] Scott Wittman: But I used to go see Barbara Cook there.

[50:23] Daniel Nolen: Wow, wow.

[50:24] Scott Wittman: She would be there.

[50:25] Ben Rimalower: She was as big as this room.

[50:27] Scott Wittman: She was back then, but she was—but yeah, it was tiny.

[50:31] Daniel Nolen: I mean, so how many?

[50:33] Scott Wittman: And so she'd be with a piano only, actually.

[50:35] Ben Rimalower: Yes, and Julie Wilson I saw there, and Helen Gallagher.

[50:38] Scott Wittman: I used a lot of people.

[50:39] Daniel Nolen: And I mean, did they look you in the eyes when they were singing?

[50:41] Scott Wittman: Yeah, of course.

[50:42] Ben Rimalower: And like, um, and then there was the grand finale, which was a little bit bigger and had bigger names. Like I saw Dusty Springfield there.

[50:49] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[50:50] Scott Wittman: That's another record. Dusty in Memphis.

[50:53] Ben Rimalower: Yes, that's—I mean, everyone's gonna pick that, I assume.

[50:56] Scott Wittman: I mean, if they have taste.

[50:58] Ben Rimalower: That's one of the great, great albums.

[51:00] Scott Wittman: Yeah, oh absolutely just a little love early in the morning.

[51:09] Scott Wittman: Beats a cup of coffee for starting off the day.

[51:17] Scott Wittman: Just a little love.

[51:20] Scott Wittman: When the world is young, makes you wake up feeling good.

[51:25] Scott Wittman: Thanks are coming your way.

[51:29] Scott Wittman: But I saw her there, and that must have been a lot bigger.

[51:33] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it was next to Cafe Luxembourg, you know, on the 73rd Street, 74th Street. And yeah, that was a beautiful room. More like a showroom, yeah.

[51:43] Ben Rimalower: I had—here's another name. I had lunch last week with Patty Wettig, and she was a Patricia Wettig from 30 Something and Brothers & Sisters. She worked in the grand finale.

[51:52] Scott Wittman: She was a cocktail waitress.

[51:54] Ben Rimalower: But she was not a singer.

[51:57] Scott Wittman: No, but no, we were talking about their favorite act there was Wayland Flowers and Madame.

[52:02] Daniel Nolen: You didn't direct that one.

[52:03] Scott Wittman: No, no, no.

[52:04] Ben Rimalower: Were there any other really crazy campy ones besides Little Edie that you directed?

[52:09] Scott Wittman: I'm trying to think. The High Heel Women.

[52:13] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I have a long story about my nightmare with Barbara Luna.

[52:17] Scott Wittman: Barbara Luna was—she was in West Side Story at City Center.

[52:21] Daniel Nolen: Is that right?

[52:22] Scott Wittman: Wow.

[52:22] Ben Rimalower: No, she was the original cast of South Pacific.

[52:25] Scott Wittman: Oh, like as a little detail.

[52:27] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[52:28] Scott Wittman: We wrote—we took acid and wrote a medley for her. She wanted a "Born in the Trunk" number. So I remember Mark and I took acid and wrote, "I played the part of Anita once, it was created by Chita, once then recreated by Rita. I'm sick and tired of all these bumps."

[52:47] Daniel Nolen: Brilliant.

[52:52] Ben Rimalower: What would you get for those acts in those days?

[52:54] Scott Wittman: Well, it wasn't just—you would get a fee, but then also you had to pay for the arrangements because she was screwing Bill Cosby.

[53:03] Daniel Nolen: Oh voluntarily, yeah.

[53:06] Scott Wittman: Right. And so she was opening for him. And so those were union houses. So they could not play the charts unless they were the—so Mark had to go to the union to try to get paid for it.

[53:20] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[53:21] Scott Wittman: So she never paid for us. Cut to, I'm saying maybe 35 years later, I'm driving down Santa Monica Boulevard, the Gardenia, and I see Barbara Luna, the Gardenia. I pull right in there and I went back and I looked at, and then I saw on the chart, there it was.

[53:42] Daniel Nolen: Marching.

[53:43] Ben Rimalower: Hilarious.

[53:44] Scott Wittman: She had the medley, she was doing the medley.

[53:48] Daniel Nolen: Listen, if it works, it ain't broke.

[53:52] Ben Rimalower: But I mean, okay, like now if a girl wants to do a show, she books her act at Don't Tell Mama, they're gonna give her, you know, she gets the door, and there's what, like a $200 room fee or a $300 room fee, and then she's got a—she'll pay her piano player $500 or a thousand dollars, and he'll play rehearsals for her, and he'll basically make up the arrangements kind of, you know, on the spot.

[54:15] Scott Wittman: So who is this girl?

[54:17] Ben Rimalower: Because this is your garden variety girl. She's from Ohio or...

[54:23] Daniel Nolen: Musical theater major.

[54:23] Ben Rimalower: Musical theater major.

[54:23] Scott Wittman: From CCM.

[54:25] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[54:26] Scott Wittman: Like all the greats.

[54:27] Ben Rimalower: But what was the economics like of cabaret in the '70s?

[54:32] Scott Wittman: Well, first of all, New York cost—I uh New York cost nothing to live in. So and it was probably the most creative time that I've had in New York was then because we had no money, but we went out every night and never came home.

[54:49] Daniel Nolen: So it must...

[54:49] Scott Wittman: We had a lot of fun for no money.

[54:52] Ben Rimalower: But you were going out to bars and buying drinks, yeah.

[54:55] Scott Wittman: But they didn't cost anything. You could go to Reno Sweeney's if you didn't have money, yeah, and sit at the bar and have a drink, a drink for—I'm telling you—two dollars, and they had a closed-circuit television, and so you could watch the act.

[55:10] Daniel Nolen: We used to call it a welfare room because the act would be going on inside, and you could watch the act on the TV at the bar.

[55:16] Ben Rimalower: So there's two rooms. There's like the entrance room, you watch the room.

[55:19] Scott Wittman: It's a restaurant now, it's possible. I've gotten in there, they have the posters on the wall on 13th Street, yeah. And then it doesn't—it didn't look anything like the restaurant. It was all—but yeah, in the front was the bar, and then the Paradise Room where I saw Peter Allen and Barbara Cook opened for Peter Allen.

[55:36] Daniel Nolen: Do people have openers in cabaret rooms?

[55:38] Scott Wittman: Back then, yeah.

[55:39] Ben Rimalower: What time did those shows start? Were they usually real late?

[55:43] Scott Wittman: AM?

[55:44] Ben Rimalower: No, no, no, one at eight, one at eleven.

[55:47] Daniel Nolen: Gotcha.

[55:48] Scott Wittman: Okay, well that's not that good now.

[55:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[55:50] Scott Wittman: And so what would the cover be for...

[55:50] Ben Rimalower: Uh, $20?

[55:54] Scott Wittman: For Peter Allen, even, yeah.

[55:55] Ben Rimalower: But didn't know—did you work in those days with anybody that wasn't a star that was just starting out that you were...

[56:01] Scott Wittman: Christine.

[56:02] Ben Rimalower: In the '70s, you did Christine Ebersole?

[56:04] Scott Wittman: I did acts for Christine, yeah, when she was in Camelot with the city.

[56:08] Daniel Nolen: So like what would have Debbie Shapiro Gravitte?

[56:12] Ben Rimalower: My favorite.

[56:13] Scott Wittman: So like what would you have gotten as a directing fee for like one of those shows in that time?

[56:18] Ben Rimalower: All you can drink?

[56:20] Scott Wittman: I forget. I don't remember that much. I was also a waiter and I was working at Joe Allen's in a bartender.

[56:26] Daniel Nolen: I mean, were you working like a full-time waiter shift?

[56:30] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[56:31] Ben Rimalower: Like you got there and served the time.

[56:33] Scott Wittman: I worked at a bar, a restaurant that was really beautiful, and it was a huge hangout for actors. It was called Downies. And it was on 44th and 8th, and it was all green banquettes, leather banquettes, and every star would go in there every night.

[56:49] Scott Wittman: And I had the eight booths in the front. And I was there every night because Marta Keller and Al Pacino were dating, and they were sat in my section until four o'clock in the morning. I would take everything off the table. Oh my god. Try to get them to leave. Shelley Winters is always in there very drunk.

[57:08] Daniel Nolen: Did you love her?

[57:09] Scott Wittman: Yeah. So, like for Christine Ebersole's show, she wasn't a star yet. Um, what was the cover charge for her thing?

[57:16] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I was probably again she was a lot. So, where does she used to perform at Barbara Ann's, which was another club on 46th Street, which is now like wherever they have the swing?

[57:26] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yes, yeah, yeah.

[57:28] Scott Wittman: I worked there too, yeah.

[57:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[57:29] Scott Wittman: So she I did an act for her there. And then oh, you know what was running there that whole time that she would be the late show.

[57:37] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[57:37] Scott Wittman: And that, and it was then it was starting here, starting now. That was running.

[57:41] Daniel Nolen: Started at a club, yeah.

[57:43] Scott Wittman: It was only in that club. I don't remember it ever. It ran there for a long time. I know every one of those songs waiting on.

[57:49] Daniel Nolen: Crossword Five All.

[57:51] Scott Wittman: I don't remember Christmas. Was this world of cabaret nightclubs, cocktails? Was it all that you had imagined it as a kid playing cocktail?

[57:59] Scott Wittman: Yes, it was very glamorous. It was exactly like that. I mean, and was it so would you the you had how many were many shifts you had waiting at tables in the week?

[58:13] Scott Wittman: Yeah, and then you'd the rest of the nights you were attracted to. I would run to Freddy's and do an act for Laura Kenyon or you know, I had a club too for a while.

[58:21] Daniel Nolen: You did?

[58:22] Scott Wittman: Yeah, I think Sky's no, it should have been called that. But no, it was on um it was on St. Mark's Place, and it was called the Club 57.

[58:31] Scott Wittman: And it was a bunch of us. It was me and Keith Haring and Kenny Sharf and a woman named Ann Magnus.

[58:39] Daniel Nolen: Oh, sure, yeah.

[58:40] Scott Wittman: And so it was the basement of a church on that street. And so I was I was too rock and roll for theater and too theatery for rock and roll. So I found this sort of place that that I they I said, okay, yeah, come and join us and do whatever you want.

[58:55] Scott Wittman: So I had would have two nights a week, and I did all these productions. That's when you did like the Sound of Music, yeah, and Trojan Women, and then we wrote Mark and I wrote our first musical there called Live in Dolls about Barbie and Ken.

[59:08] Scott Wittman: So that was and that became the sort of cultural center for me. This was in 78, 79, 80, and then and then sort of AIDS came in the picture and people started you know disappearing.

[59:20] Daniel Nolen: But that was um I did a lot, a lot of shows there. And were you still waiting tables at that point?

[59:26] Scott Wittman: Yes, and then finally I quit. I because Mark got a job at Saturday Night Live as sort of like the musical director back then didn't play piano.

[59:35] Scott Wittman: The GE Smith.

[59:37] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and so he would do sort of the musical comedy stuff because Billy Crystal was up there.

[59:42] Scott Wittman: Was he your Billy Crystal and Marty Short and Chris um yeah, Billy Crystal and Marty Short were sort of the on that show, and some Mark ended up there, and Christine ended up.

[59:55] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[59:57] Scott Wittman: Um so that that's when you quit the waiting tables.

[59:59] Scott Wittman: That's when you had Club 57.

[1:00:01] Scott Wittman: Yeah, and I would I would and then I figured a way where I could do shows and nightclubs because back then DJs were not stars.

[1:00:09] Scott Wittman: They would I so I would do these huge extravaganzas at you know one o'clock in the morning with casts of maybe up to 200 people, and so I did them at Studio 54, Dance Eteria, the Palladium, I like dance club nightclubs.

[1:00:25] Daniel Nolen: You're not talking about nightclubs.

[1:00:30] Scott Wittman: And did people buy tickets to go to the hall?

[1:00:33] Scott Wittman: Um I had a huge, I would go out and I'd have like 500 um you know, admit one and a guest, and so it was just to get them in there to drink.

[1:00:45] Scott Wittman: And eventually they of course would stay. But the shows would I did them at this, I did Bye Bye Birdie at the Saint, which Charles Strauss had the they came.

[1:00:55] Scott Wittman: And and uh Pat Field had done the costumes and everyone was dressed like it was uh it was in outer space.

[1:01:01] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, so they had no idea what was going on when they came.

[1:01:05] Scott Wittman: But uh, but I did a lot of those, and so then I that I figured out oh, the club gave me $10,000. I paid everybody in drink tickets, and then uh you know, everything was I kept the rest.

[1:01:18] Daniel Nolen: So you made good money on those shows at Club 57.

[1:01:20] Scott Wittman: Yeah, yeah, enough.

[1:01:20] Daniel Nolen: So those were not, did you still call it Club 57?

[1:01:23] Scott Wittman: No, no, this was it was always Scott Wittman's.

[1:01:23] Scott Wittman: Scott Wittman's.

[1:01:27] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:01:28] Scott Wittman: Well I did one called Pagan Place, which was the Bible in 2008.

[1:01:32] Daniel Nolen: Were how were the shows all short like that?

[1:01:35] Scott Wittman: Yeah, they'd be uh some uh not versions of the they at the at the uh Club 57 I would do all evening.

[1:01:43] Scott Wittman: But the the But these were not simultaneous. This was after that.

[1:01:45] Scott Wittman: It all came out of that. It started to grow from that because then I went to Dance Eteria, which I they gave me total free.

[1:01:53] Daniel Nolen: Is that Madonna era Dance Eteria?

[1:01:55] Scott Wittman: Yes, yes, she was, yeah, yeah. I often followed her because she or she would be the you know, late.

[1:02:01] Scott Wittman: I would do the I did Peter Pan there, and I remember she went on.

[1:02:04] Scott Wittman: And John Sachs was the star.

[1:02:05] Daniel Nolen: Now who is he?

[1:02:06] Scott Wittman: John Sachs was uh really one um a lot of this is on YouTube, by the way.

[1:02:11] Scott Wittman: Yes, yeah, he's a really lovely artist and graphic designer, but also had a very flamboyant stage personality, and Andy Warhol loved him and he was sort of the darling of that set.

[1:02:24] Scott Wittman: And I did many, many shows that where he was the center of it. And then I would put other people around him, like Laura Kenyon or uh all this.

[1:02:33] Scott Wittman: So they became sort of I did, you know, a whole gender reversed Peter Pan back then and where John was Peter Pan.

[1:02:33] Scott Wittman: Where John was Peter Pan or was Captain Hook.

[1:02:43] Daniel Nolen: Um and then did that continue until you moved to LA?

[1:02:48] Scott Wittman: Yes, because once I moved to LA with AIDS when there were too many ghosts.

[1:02:52] Daniel Nolen: So is that why you moved to LA?

[1:02:54] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[1:02:55] Daniel Nolen: And then was LA different, or just they weren't your ghosts?

[1:02:59] Scott Wittman: All I learned how to do in LA was drink and try. The two skills you need.

[1:03:07] Daniel Nolen: So what year was that that you moved to LA?

[1:03:09] Scott Wittman: That was 10 years in the 80s, the late 80s.

[1:03:09] Daniel Nolen: Late 80s.

[1:03:13] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[1:03:13] Daniel Nolen: Um and before it was Ute Lemper.

[1:03:17] Scott Wittman: Did she get you back here?

[1:03:19] Scott Wittman: She took me to Germany for a year.

[1:03:21] Daniel Nolen: Oh, and had you been a fan of hers before?

[1:03:24] Scott Wittman: Never knew who the hell she was.

[1:03:25] Daniel Nolen: How did you connect with her to Lemper?

[1:03:27] Scott Wittman: She somehow, I'm trying. Oh, I done Mark had done an act which I kind of helped on for Reba McEntire.

[1:03:37] Scott Wittman: And somehow the manager or something said, Oh, you should get these guys.

[1:03:42] Scott Wittman: So they hired me and fired Mark.

[1:03:45] Scott Wittman: So but I moved to Germany for a year with her.

[1:03:48] Scott Wittman: Yeah, because she was young.

[1:03:50] Scott Wittman: She was very young. She was about to be, they wanted she had gone to Paris and done this production of Cabaret, and the French had given her their equivalent of the Tony Award, the Molière.

[1:04:00] Scott Wittman: So for the French to give the Germans anything, she came back to Germany.

[1:04:05] Scott Wittman: She was the second. She came back to Germany that's the second coming of Marlena Dietrich.

[1:04:10] Scott Wittman: But all she didn't, she was so young, she just wanted to be Liza Minnelli.

[1:04:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:04:15] Scott Wittman: And so we they gave her a 90-minute television special, and I kept saying Barbara Streisand at her peak did 45.

[1:04:25] Scott Wittman: So they brought all these Americans in. Uh, me and Greg Burge was in it.

[1:04:30] Scott Wittman: To choreograph it. He was her guest star, and we did so we did this huge television show that went on the road.

[1:04:36] Scott Wittman: So we were on the road all over Germany for a year.

[1:04:40] Scott Wittman: In theaters.

[1:04:41] Scott Wittman: No, I'm telling you, we were following that year, and I was on the road with Bruce Springsteen and the Born to Run tour and Whitney Houston, and I want to dance with somebody to her.

[1:04:51] Scott Wittman: And so we would come into the Olympia Hall. There were 80,000 people.

[1:04:55] Scott Wittman: So she would be doing that, singing Life is a Cabaret all chum.

[1:05:00] Scott Wittman: And then I was there for a year, and finally I went into a gay bar in a town called Essen.

[1:05:05] Scott Wittman: And they said, Hey, Scott's back. And I said, Oh, it's time to go home.

[1:05:11] Scott Wittman: So I they the crew had said, Well, you have to be in the show on the last night.

[1:05:15] Scott Wittman: And I said, Oh, no, all right. And the a the ending number was enough is enough is enough.

[1:05:21] Scott Wittman: And so everyone had the dancers all had black raincoats on and stuff.

[1:05:25] Scott Wittman: And so I went in front of 80,000 people in Munich and took all my clothes off.

[1:05:31] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[1:05:32] Scott Wittman: Oh my God.

[1:05:33] Daniel Nolen: To Ute Lemper sang.

[1:05:35] Scott Wittman: No, it was the she looked over and I was all of a sudden in the last picture.

[1:05:39] Scott Wittman: And we they were telling everyone got an eight in the bow, like eight account of eight each dancer.

[1:05:44] Scott Wittman: So on my eight, I opened up the radio. Woo!

[1:05:47] Daniel Nolen: Now, how come you had to stay the whole time in that direction?

[1:05:50] Scott Wittman: Because it was just babysitting, and you know, yeah.

[1:05:54] Scott Wittman: So I mean, what what did you like did you have to take the tech staff in each theater through all the light cues?

[1:06:01] Scott Wittman: No, because there was a whole thing.

[1:06:03] Scott Wittman: So you were literally just babysitting.

[1:06:05] Scott Wittman: She had a little bit of a breakdown in the middle of it. It was just too much for her.

[1:06:08] Scott Wittman: And um, and so they sent everyone wherever they wanted to go, except Scott.

[1:06:14] Scott Wittman: You will be going with her.

[1:06:16] Scott Wittman: And I went to a clinic, uh uh, like in a clinic where all these women were having facelifts and stuff, and the in the it's called an intersartan, which was uh out in the Alps, and I sat there for she never came out of the room, and I sat there for a week and proceeded to get all these women on facelifts drunk.

[1:06:34] Scott Wittman: Oh my god. I'm telling you too many stories now.

[1:06:38] Daniel Nolen: We only have a couple minutes left. Do you want to talk about anything else before we play our game?

[1:06:41] Scott Wittman: Oh, yeah.

[1:06:41] Daniel Nolen: Do you want to plug anything?

[1:06:42] Scott Wittman: Oh, do I want to plug anything?

[1:06:44] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, no, I have nothing to plug.

[1:06:45] Scott Wittman: Wow.

[1:06:46] Daniel Nolen: We'll find something.

[1:06:47] Scott Wittman: Um so we have a game we play called um Dolly Concert Kill. It's like Mary Fuck Kill.

[1:06:52] Daniel Nolen: It will give you three performers and you choose one to see as Dolly Levi on Broadway.

[1:06:58] Daniel Nolen: And one to see in a peak career concert.

[1:07:01] Scott Wittman: Right.

[1:07:02] Daniel Nolen: And one to unfortunately kill.

[1:07:04] Scott Wittman: Oh I do I have to kill somebody?

[1:07:06] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, you have to kill somebody.

[1:07:07] Scott Wittman: What if oh maybe they can already be dead?

[1:07:10] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, they can already be dead, that's true.

[1:07:12] Daniel Nolen: Um who should we give him? Let's see.

[1:07:14] Daniel Nolen: Bette Midler.

[1:07:14] Scott Wittman: Bette Midler, yeah.

[1:07:15] Daniel Nolen: And I think uh Ute Lemper.

[1:07:18] Scott Wittman: And Patti LuPone.

[1:07:19] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah, there you go.

[1:07:20] Scott Wittman: Oh my gosh. This might be an easy one for Scott.

[1:07:23] Scott Wittman: Well, I like to see Patti as uh Dolly. I think that's a shame that never happened.

[1:07:27] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:07:27] Scott Wittman: And what's the next one?

[1:07:28] Daniel Nolen: Uh peak concert.

[1:07:30] Scott Wittman: Well, Bette, but I saw those, so it's not like I saw those peak concerts.

[1:07:34] Daniel Nolen: So you want you want to kill Bette and see Ute in concert?

[1:07:38] Scott Wittman: No, I wouldn't want to kill Ute, but she's changed now.

[1:07:42] Daniel Nolen: Well, you have to kill somebody.

[1:07:43] Scott Wittman: I do.

[1:07:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:07:45] Scott Wittman: Oh my gosh.

[1:07:49] Scott Wittman: Oh, I guess Ute, I guess.

[1:07:49] Daniel Nolen: Kill it at peak Bette concert.

[1:07:51] Scott Wittman: Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:52] Daniel Nolen: That's a very respectable answer.

[1:07:54] Scott Wittman: Um I don't want to kill anybody though.

[1:07:56] Daniel Nolen: Well, you don't have you don't have to actually do the dirty work.

[1:07:59] Scott Wittman: We'll take care of that for you.

[1:08:00] Daniel Nolen: But you'll know when you see the headlines because you made that choice.

[1:08:04] Daniel Nolen: Um do you do you think we'll ever see Patti and Dolly?

[1:08:07] Scott Wittman: Should I should I give up hope?

[1:08:08] Scott Wittman: Yeah, I would give up hope.

[1:08:11] Daniel Nolen: Um is uh is it because people hate Scott Rudin? Is that the problem?

[1:08:14] Scott Wittman: No, I don't think that. I I think that, you know, I think I went to see it with Patti with we went to see Bette together.

[1:08:21] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I didn't know that.

[1:08:22] Scott Wittman: And uh I didn't know.

[1:08:23] Scott Wittman: Yeah, I think that um I I think that that sh I think there was a time where she was gonna do it.

[1:08:30] Scott Wittman: Right. I know about Jack and Brian.

[1:08:32] Scott Wittman: Yeah, and they didn't I think that if I might not I think I'm making it up, but I think this is the story that the Jerry Herman insisted that you had to do the Gower Champion choreography.

[1:08:42] Daniel Nolen: That's the right thing.

[1:08:43] Scott Wittman: So she they felt they didn't want to do they they felt it needed to be reinvented.

[1:08:48] Daniel Nolen: But like if this production was gonna go to the West End and they offered it to Patti, you don't think she would do that?

[1:08:54] Scott Wittman: Oh, I don't know. I know she loves London, so she's very happy there.

[1:08:57] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[1:08:58] Scott Wittman: And um uh yeah.

[1:09:00] Daniel Nolen: Well I thought I was gonna bring up To Kill a Mockingbird, but I guess we're we're over the tone.

[1:09:04] Scott Wittman: No more Tony gossip.

[1:09:06] Daniel Nolen: But I I loved that production.

[1:09:08] Scott Wittman: Which one?

[1:09:08] Daniel Nolen: Dolly?

[1:09:09] Scott Wittman: To Kill well that too.

[1:09:10] Scott Wittman: But Dolly was rewarded at the Tony's, but To Kill a Mockingbird deserved, I felt to be nominated.

[1:09:16] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:09:17] Scott Wittman: No comment.

[1:09:18] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, no, I liked I like yeah, yeah, of course I liked it.

[1:09:21] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[1:09:22] Daniel Nolen: Um well, thank you.

[1:09:23] Scott Wittman: I'd say plenty of off the record.

[1:09:25] Daniel Nolen: Off the record.

[1:09:26] Daniel Nolen: Let's do it. Are you on uh social media?

[1:09:28] Scott Wittman: I am uh yeah, I'm on Instagram or I don't do anything else.

[1:09:31] Scott Wittman: Occasionally some people poke at me on Facebook, but I don't go on there much.

[1:09:35] Scott Wittman: Oh the um but the uh I Instagram I like taking pictures.

[1:09:39] Scott Wittman: That's yeah.

[1:09:39] Daniel Nolen: It's just Scott Wittman.

[1:09:41] Scott Wittman: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:09:42] Scott Wittman: Or SM Witness maybe.

[1:09:44] Daniel Nolen: That's a middle name.

[1:09:45] Scott Wittman: Yeah.

[1:09:45] Daniel Nolen: What is it for?

[1:09:46] Scott Wittman: Michael.

[1:09:47] Daniel Nolen: Michael.

[1:09:47] Scott Wittman: Scott Michael.

[1:09:49] Daniel Nolen: Thank you, Scott.

[1:09:50] Scott Wittman: You're amazing.

[1:09:52] Daniel Nolen: Yes, we'll uh we'll add those in both.

[1:09:54] Scott Wittman: Thank you.

[1:09:55] Scott Wittman: That was fun.

[1:09:58] Daniel Nolen: Thanks for listening to Ben Rimelauer's Broken Records on Broadway World.

[1:10:02] Daniel Nolen: For more episodes, visit Broadway World's iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be.

[1:10:08] Daniel Nolen: Come back next week for a singer and actress Laura Benanti coming in to chat about Tori Amos's Little Earthquakes.

[1:10:14] Daniel Nolen: Other upcoming guests include four-time Tony winning lighting designer Kevin Adams and from the national company of Hello Dolly, Tony nominated Broadway diva Carolee Carmelo.

[1:10:25] Daniel Nolen: This episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City and was edited by me, Daniel Nolen.

[1:10:30] Daniel Nolen: Special thanks to Emmy winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the Broken Records theme song.

[1:10:35] Daniel Nolen: Follow us both, Ben Rimelauer and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials.

[1:10:38] Daniel Nolen: That's Ben Rimelauer, B-E-N R-I-M-A-L-O-W-E-R.

[1:10:45] Daniel Nolen: And that's Nolan with an E, not Nolan with an A.

[1:10:47] Daniel Nolen: Because Nolan with an A is an ass.