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[0:00] Ben Rimalower: Streaming July 3rd on Disney Plus.

[0:02] Daniel Nolen: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Hamilton.

[0:09] Ben Rimalower: Experience the journey.

[0:12] Daniel Nolen: The dream in the love smart of the street.

[0:14] Ben Rimalower: The Triumph.

[0:16] Daniel Nolen: The Tony, Grammy, and Bullet Surprise winning phenomenon is here.

[0:23] Ben Rimalower: Hamilton rated PG 13.

[0:24] Daniel Nolen: Maybe inappropriate for children under 13, streaming July 3rd, exclusively on Disney Plus.

[0:31] Ben Rimalower: Broken records, the albums you wouldn't shut up about.

[0:36] Daniel Nolen: Broken records.

[0:37] Ben Rimalower: The music our guests can't live without.

[0:40] Daniel Nolen: Like Judy, Barbara, Liza, Beth, Daddy, Audra, Bernadette.

[0:44] Ben Rimalower: We broadcast this podcast with hopes that someday we might get Patti LuPone.

[0:55] Daniel Nolen: Broken wreck, broken wreck, broken wreck, broken wreck, broken wreck.

[1:04] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World Broadway Podcast Network and Broadway on Demand.

[1:11] Ben Rimalower: I am Ben Rimalower, and I'm here with my lovely co-host Daniel Nolen.

[1:16] Daniel Nolen: Hey y'all.

[1:18] Ben Rimalower: We are just as pleased as Punch to be talking today about the landmark Lin-Manuel Miranda musical In the Heights, Tony Award winner 2008.

[1:32] Ben Rimalower: Um pardon me, 2008. Uh, and we're going to be talking about it with its star, original Daniela, Andréa Burns.

[1:34] Ben Rimalower: Andréa Burns. Such a fabulous talent that I have just worshipped from afar for literally decades.

[1:47] Ben Rimalower: She, I guess she actually began her career when she was only 18, touring the opera houses of Europe, as Maria in West Side Story.

[1:55] Ben Rimalower: But she first became known to me and my kind by her thrilling vocals in Jason Robert Brown's the show that put him on the map, Songs for a New World, where she sang, I'm not afraid of anything, and I'd give it all for you.

[2:13] Ben Rimalower: And um then uh she most recently got an Outer Critics Circle nomination in uh Gloria Estefan's On Your Feet on Broadway.

[2:21] Ben Rimalower: And um other shows she created roles in are Stephen Sondheim's Saturday Night and um Douglas Carter Beane's The Nance.

[2:30] Daniel Nolen: Loved her in that so much.

[2:31] Ben Rimalower: I loved her in that as well, too.

[2:33] Ben Rimalower: And um, she's just a wonderful talent and a wonderful person as we now know because I have to tell you guys tell them a story.

[2:43] Ben Rimalower: We just experienced this whole three-act drama in the past hour.

[2:48] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, when something like you just come so close to death that it just gives you a new lease on life.

[2:56] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[2:57] Ben Rimalower: Well, I mean, like I said, I've been a fan of Andréa's for you know, for over 20 years.

[2:57] Daniel Nolen: For over 20 years.

[3:05] Ben Rimalower: And um, I uh she did Great Domina, and funny thing happened in my forum, by the way. Um, but I had never met her.

[3:12] Ben Rimalower: And so, you know, just meeting her, you know, e-meeting her or whatever to record the podcast, which by the way, we do remotely, so you know it's not even face to face.

[3:24] Ben Rimalower: So I'm just you know, grateful asking a stranger to give us her time, you know, just over our shared love of musical theater and In the Heights and Lin-Manuel Miranda.

[3:33] Ben Rimalower: And um, so we have this great chat with her, and we talked to her for about half an hour, and it was so kind of her to, you know, make time for us, and she was so lovely to talk to, and we all hang up happy, happy-go-lucky, just like any other interview we've done.

[3:49] Daniel Nolen: And Daniel's like, uh-oh, uh-oh, her file's not there.

[3:52] Ben Rimalower: Our file's not uploading.

[3:53] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[3:54] Ben Rimalower: It had like saved our MP3s to my Dropbox, and then hers was like still uh spinning, you know, uh uh uploading or whatever.

[4:02] Ben Rimalower: My stomach dropped. And like at first I was just like, I'm sure, I'm sure that it's just the backup file, it's in the backup file, or you know, doesn't the master has all three of ours from I don't know what, I don't know how anything works.

[4:14] Ben Rimalower: But like, in fact, the answer to all my assurances was in fact, no.

[4:19] Ben Rimalower: And um, so there's like the horrifying realization that this total stranger, indeed, this Broadway star who I have never met, but now have to like get back to over email, hoping she sees it and be like, hey, thanks for that great interview.

[4:37] Ben Rimalower: Just real quick, could you come back on to the session? Because Daniel's thinking that you know, when she comes back on, we'll be able to then get the file from her computer.

[4:47] Daniel Nolen: On her end, you know, she just a little technical glitch. We just need to grab the session from you again.

[4:52] Ben Rimalower: So then we just wait and pray that she sees the email within a matter of minutes, you know, moments really seconds, we see her back on the session.

[4:52] Daniel Nolen: Hi, Andréa, thank you so much.

[5:02] Andréa Burns: Oh, sure, what's the problem?

[5:05] Ben Rimalower: Then we proceed to spend literally more time than we spend doing the original interview, torturing woman as we just like troubleshoot with her, by the way, all the while through this infuriating delay in between her hearing us and us hearing her.

[5:23] Ben Rimalower: And she was just so patient and kind to just keep but one after another of these troubleshooting tips.

[5:29] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I'm just like I'm just going through like the help page of this podcasting website, reading all the options.

[5:37] Ben Rimalower: Uh meanwhile, it's a weekend, so like the chat function is currently not working.

[5:42] Daniel Nolen: So like I can't email or ask anyone who works there what I should do.

[5:47] Ben Rimalower: So we keep trying all these options. And I love what she said. She uh the delay was so intense that she was like, I feel like seasons change between me saying something and you guys hearing me.

[5:58] Daniel Nolen: And it was so true.

[6:00] Ben Rimalower: Um and like literally at one point, I'm like, we have to like do a deep dive onto her like new MacBook and like figure out like which setting she has for right click.

[6:12] Ben Rimalower: And just by the way, anytime you're dealing with a right click, you already are in trouble.

[6:16] Daniel Nolen: Right click is not something you use on a good day when everything works the way it's supposed to.

[6:20] Ben Rimalower: So I mean, all the while, just having to wonder like, was this whole interview just lost, right?

[6:27] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, a wonderful interview.

[6:30] Ben Rimalower: Even if, yeah, even if she was like, let's just do it again, you guys.

[6:34] Daniel Nolen: Like, how could we? It was like, you know, it was the chemistry of like a first date.

[6:39] Ben Rimalower: Like it was like all just spontaneous conversation. Like, how do we read? Okay, so uh I think this is the part where you said, I don't know, you know, um the first read of yeah, nice, you know.

[6:53] Daniel Nolen: I mean, you know, it just it was like there was no way that was ever gonna happen.

[6:56] Ben Rimalower: Where I mean, I was like, do we just kill ourselves? Like, what's the eject button?

[7:01] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and and I felt like I aged like 20 years.

[7:05] Ben Rimalower: Um, meanwhile, it's like you know, gray and rainy out. I'm like, this does not bode well for the rest of my time on this earth.

[7:12] Daniel Nolen: Seriously.

[7:13] Ben Rimalower: But um, I mean, what can we do? But eventually we figured out how to uh we figured out her MacBook settings to set the right click so she was able to right-click, save the file uh locally on her computer, and then email it to us, and it worked.

[7:29] Daniel Nolen: And I heard her beautiful, beautiful voice from our recording, and I like heaved a sigh of relief and she was just so nice.

[7:40] Ben Rimalower: Like, definitely we were at the point where like Patti LuPone or like probably even like Kelly O'Hara would have been like, I'm sorry, you guys, like I I gotta go, just you know, yeah.

[7:50] Daniel Nolen: Figure it out.

[7:50] Ben Rimalower: You know, find some of my other shit online and cut and so yeah, thank you again, Andréa.

[7:50] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god, Andréa Burns. Not only a wonderful, a wonderful 30-minute interview, but like another 45 minutes spent troubleshooting with her, which made me love her even more.

[8:09] Ben Rimalower: That is when you really know when the chips are down. That's when you really know what you're dealing with.

[8:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's like you know how when you go through like whenever Trump was elected president, like that night.

[8:24] Ben Rimalower: With my uh best friend Jessica, you know, that night at the bar, we spent cheering on Hillary Clinton, seeing the results roll in, getting excited, getting drunk over the idea of a woman president, and then slowly we begin to realize that things are going south.

[8:44] Daniel Nolen: And as we all know how that turned out horribly, but I feel like that horrible moment like strengthened our friendship and our relationship in a way that no other experience could have because we were just like clinging to each other for dear life.

[8:58] Ben Rimalower: We are both to Andréa Burns now for it.

[9:01] Daniel Nolen: So I feel like this, yeah, this bonded us to Andréa Burns. And like I feel like any time whenever we finally do meet her in person, I feel like it's just gonna be like we're we've gone through so much together, we're like old friends at this point.

[9:13] Ben Rimalower: So like I don't even want to meet her until there's a cure and a vaccine for COVID.

[9:20] Daniel Nolen: Because when I meet her, I'm gonna need like a real hug from her.

[9:24] Ben Rimalower: I just need to like have her hold me for like 30 seconds, you know.

[9:28] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah. I mean, what just a calm I mean, even I told Ben I was so nervous and just so my initial response to these situations is just to be like, well, like we need to like move on.

[9:42] Daniel Nolen: I could get used to the fact that like we're gonna have to like do redo this or whatever. And Ben and Andréa were so like, no, it's great, like we'll figure it out. Let's what can we do?

[9:53] Ben Rimalower: And so I mean, honestly, I kind of wish that we had recorded that whole like non-session session of us just like with like troubleshooting the like oh my god.

[10:06] Daniel Nolen: Oh god, okay there is a god and the universe is a loving, forgiving place, and we can all find peace and joy asunder.

[10:16] Ben Rimalower: Um I don't know what asunder means, but isn't that a Barbra Streisand lyric?

[10:21] Daniel Nolen: Asunder, only joy and quiet wonder endless possibilities.

[10:28] Ben Rimalower: That's an I'd love to hear Andréa sing that ordinary miracles.

[10:32] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, ordinary miracles.

[10:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, she'd be great at that.

[10:35] Daniel Nolen: She'd be great. Um, there's actually a I was thinking uh before our interview with her, I was watching video clips, and I was thinking of all the Streisand material I want her to perform.

[10:45] Ben Rimalower: Oh, totally.

[10:46] Daniel Nolen: Like, yeah, you know she's got a lot of Streisand up in it.

[10:50] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a story she tells to Seth Rudetsky about one of her original audition songs that was actually a medley.

[11:01] Daniel Nolen: Where she sings um It's Cornet Man and then Cornet Man is the end, just like crazy belting.

[11:07] Ben Rimalower: Uh you gotta get a gimmick.

[11:09] Daniel Nolen: Right.

[11:09] Ben Rimalower: And um wait, it starts with some there's a crazy uh is it Soprano?

[11:14] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, what's the one it starts with? It's like a is it a belt thing or a soprano?

[11:17] Ben Rimalower: Now I can't remember.

[11:18] Daniel Nolen: Well, everybody should watch it, it's on YouTube.

[11:20] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, but hearing her sing Cornet Man though, I was like, yes, Fanny Brice.

[11:25] Daniel Nolen: Well, okay, so we both we both said that we saw her in In the Heights, so we both loved her for at least that many years.

[11:32] Ben Rimalower: Um and uh like I said, I was a fan from um Songs for a New World before that.

[11:38] Ben Rimalower: And um, I had seen her in actually, and I'd forgotten about it uh in Sondheim's uh Saturday Night at Second Stage in like I want to say I guess 2000.

[11:50] Ben Rimalower: Um it's so weird. I remember that it was 2000 only because um I knew it had to be before we did A Class Act at Manhattan Theatre Club because I was walking on uh uh 43rd Street outside the Manhattan Theater Club studios with Ray Wills, who was in the off-Broadway at Manhattan Theatre Club Caroline, or Change cast of A Class Act, and we ran into Lauren.

[12:16] Daniel Nolen: Who?

[12:17] Ben Rimalower: And her name's Lauren Ward, and she uh was on Broadway in the 1776 revival with um well I think Carolee replaced her in that actually but.

[12:30] Ben Rimalower: But she was on Broadway in 1776 revival in the 90s, and she also um she was in Saturday Night at Second Stage, and um we ran into her, and I remember Ray.

[12:41] Daniel Nolen: Uh well now maybe I'm no no no yeah, that's what happened.

[12:44] Ben Rimalower: And Ray was like Lauren Ward, you're a Broadway star, and she was like, oh, I mean they knew each other, you know, but I just remember meeting her with him there, and the reason I knew who she was was because of Saturday Night.

[12:54] Ben Rimalower: But anyway, uh I remember Saturday Night and I remember uh loving Andréa.

[12:59] Daniel Nolen: I mean, of course, no surprise, you know, she was the like hilarious like anchor of that show, you know.

[13:05] Ben Rimalower: Um and uh and then uh did you see The Nance?

[13:11] Daniel Nolen: I feel like we both saw The Nance.

[13:12] Ben Rimalower: I did see The Nance, and it's so funny.

[13:15] Daniel Nolen: Uh uh we brought that up in the interview, and and uh I had been doing my research beforehand, so I had seen that.

[13:21] Ben Rimalower: And I remember her. I mean, I didn't know when back when I saw it in 2012, 2013.

[13:30] Ben Rimalower: Um I didn't know she was at that time, but I remember her and being like, Who's that girl? You know, like she's fabulous, she's uh so I'm dying to.

[13:42] Daniel Nolen: I think that exists somewhere online, like I think it's one of those like yeah, no, they did it for PBS.

[13:47] Ben Rimalower: PBS, yeah, like uh so I remember uh her in that for sure.

[13:52] Daniel Nolen: I almost feel like that we could like corn stream that, you know, I mean it's like not a musical, but it had numbers.

[13:57] Andréa Burns: I think she and Katie Huffman actually did yeah, of course, I think they did numbers.

[14:01] Daniel Nolen: Um, my so when I went and saw that show, it was I think it was at like the Velasco Theater or something, but it was it was a Lincoln Center production.

[14:12] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[14:13] Daniel Nolen: So I had gotten link ticks for that show. And I hadn't looked, I hadn't done my homework, so I didn't know. I just assumed it was like at the Vivian Beaumont because it was Lincoln Center. So it's like 7:30. I uh pull up. Well, I get off the train in front of Lincoln Center, and I'm like excited for the Nance. I go to the Vivian Beaumont, and it's like, you know, whatever opposite, whatever was playing at the time.

[14:39] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[14:40] Daniel Nolen: So I get on my phone and it's like blah blah blah. I look at the address and it's like, you know, 46th Street, 45th Street, whatever. At this point, it's 7:45, 15 minutes to curtain. Not only do I have a ticket to the Nance, but I have a front row center ticket. So I get in a cab, I'm speeding, and you know, 7:45, it's like rush hour traffic.

[15:00] Andréa Burns: You were better on the train.

[15:03] Daniel Nolen: Crawling along. I would have been better off running there.

[15:06] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[15:06] Daniel Nolen: So walking slowly. Going through Times Square traffic. Finally, I get off like two blocks in uh away from the theater. It's now 8:05. I'm like sprinting, sprinting, sprinting to the theater. I run into the box office, tell them my name, and they're like, oh yes, we've been holding the curtain for you.

[15:26] Andréa Burns: Damn.

[15:27] Daniel Nolen: So I like I they bring me in, I walk down the aisle, and I'm literally the front row center. Like there's no way I could have gotten in after the curtain went up. So especially because that second scene of that show is like a full frontal nude scene.

[15:42] Andréa Burns: So well, this is the second time that Andrea has been your uh good luck.

[15:48] Daniel Nolen: That's that's very true. Very true. I uh you just reminded me, speaking of Lincoln Center, I had a horrible experience when I went to see um my fair lady, uh at Lincoln Center, and it was terrible.

[15:59] Andréa Burns: No, I loved it.

[16:00] Daniel Nolen: Um, but I uh I had gotten my tickets through um StubHub.

[16:08] Andréa Burns: Mm-hmm.

[16:09] Daniel Nolen: And I'd never used StubHub before. And I just assumed that it was like anything else, and they would be like at the box office. And so I went to dinner on 72nd Street. And uh then uh my friend that I was with was like, Do you have the tickets? And I was like, No, you know, but uh we'll get them at the box office. And he was like, Oh, I thought they were stub hub. And I was like, Yeah, but you know, he was like, No, I think you like you better look at the email.

[16:37] Andréa Burns: So I like look at the email, and sure enough, it's like, no, you have to pick them up on like 42nd.

[16:42] Daniel Nolen: No, I've never heard of that.

[16:44] Andréa Burns: Yes, they have like an office where you have to pick up somewhere, like a you know, not an off whatever a facility. Um so I literally had to like oh no, there was no way to make it. Thank God I knew um I had been like I had requested press tickets and been rejected. But I still emailed the publicist and I was like, I bought tickets that I can't go. Can you help? I mean, but I can't get I won't be able to get them. Can you help me? So basically they just like on my like good honor, like let me sit in the seats that were supposed to be mine. And then if somebody else had like come, we would have had to like show our paper trails and like see who was legit, you know.

[17:26] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[17:27] Daniel Nolen: Well, that's that's also really good problem solving on your part.

[17:30] Andréa Burns: Listen, I am very good at like s worming out of a hole. That's my still in life.

[17:37] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, you're like, you know, the rain man when it comes to theater tickets.

[17:41] Andréa Burns: I well, that as well is true too. I um Oh, and by the way, the Nance was at the it was not at the Belasco. It was at the Lyceum Theater.

[17:51] Daniel Nolen: Same diff. They're on the wrong side of uh of Broadway, unfortunately for you.

[17:56] Andréa Burns: Yeah. Um what's that line from Bullets Over Broadway? Not the Molo not the Belasco, the Morasco.

[18:04] Daniel Nolen: Um anyway. Uh well, I um so we we both were fans, but I mean the the it was great to talk to her about it's so cool to hear someone who um is a collaborator with Lynn Memo Miranda, but in a way is also a fan, you know. I mean, of course, she's definitely also a fan, but I mean to hear her talk about being in in the heights and creating the role of Daniela through the workshops and stuff, you know, when there was only a first act and and her being one of the people who heard that material for the very first time. You know, I mean you can just you just get goosebumps when she describes hearing him do the opening number for the first time, you know.

[18:46] Andréa Burns: And of course, I remember having that experience except in the theater, you know.

[18:50] Daniel Nolen: Yes, me too. And um, I mean it's it's it's the beginning of an experience that uh that of me having that experience with him, which of course then I had again several times in Hamilton, but like I mean, you know, seeing Hamilton several times. In the heights I only saw off Broadway at 37 Arts. I never saw it on Broadway. So I'm like especially excited now after years of listening to the cast album to finally get to see it on a screen whenever the movie finally comes out. But um it's just that rare there's only a few other things. Headbig is one of the few other examples of where I've seen a show, especially it's rare with a musical, where I felt like this happens to be musical theater, but this is on the cutting edge of all culture, and not just cutting edge in terms of like edgy and groundbreaking, but cutting edge like of popular culture. Like this is what everybody will love if they can only be, you know, uh brought to the experience, you know.

[19:58] Andréa Burns: Yeah, and um, I mean, it's how I felt about like August Osage County and Angels in America and um strange loop.

[20:06] Daniel Nolen: Um oh god, yes, a strange loop so much so that I mean that's what we go to the theater for. I mean, I've said this before, I don't know if I've said it on the pod, but like theater lets me down so much of the time. Be it's like, and yet when it lifts me up, it's better than anything else in the world.

[20:29] Andréa Burns: Yeah, that's that's very true. I can see so many mediocre movies or TV shows, and I'm fine with it.

[20:40] Daniel Nolen: I I get what I want out of the experience, you know?

[20:44] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[20:44] Daniel Nolen: Uh whereas like seeing bad theater can be like so disheartening, it can just be so goddamn boring. You know, you're just sitting there in an uncomfortable seat that you paid too much money for, and you can only go to the bathroom and get a drink when they say so, you know.

[21:01] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[21:02] Daniel Nolen: Um and uh and you have to just like you know, be like just too close to so many other people. I mean, hello. But like um, and you have to hear other people's like annoying coughing or weird laughs, or like whispering to their friend or their cell phones going, you know, it's like there's something, you know, a movie just washes over you, you know. When you watch a movie, you really don't have to think that much about the other people watching the movie at the theater with you.

[21:32] Andréa Burns: Um and uh yet you have to be such a part, you're almost like a part of a community in a in a live performance audience, you know, and that's such a problem when it's not great, but when it is great, it's so uplifting. It's so you get such a charge. I mean, you feel like you are a community with the people that you sat and watched in the heights or Hamilton or uh a Strange Loop or Angels in America or Hedvig or whatever with, you know.

[22:04] Andréa Burns: Yeah, absolutely.

[22:06] Daniel Nolen: Um it's so funny. Speaking of that, and speaking of In the Heights, I did see In the Heights on Broadway, which is so crazy because it was that weird one year I spent in New York where I did uh two semesters at NY Youth Music Theater, and 2007, 2008, and I spent that whole year just like in such a deep depression. And not only was I like struggling to just you know find my way in the world and live in New York as like an 18-year-old, but I had also recently um come out and had a really dramatic breakup, and I just missed my friends, and I wasn't, I don't know, I was just so sad and down all the time, and I just had this really vivid memory of um walking home from class one day in the spring, and it was almost the end of the year.

I was about to go home to my family and friends in Oklahoma. And it was one of those things where I was just so like depressed all the time that all I wanted to do was like go home and get in bed and watch like you know, Gray's Anatomy or Lost or whatever. And so that's all I wanted to do. And I just remember I was walking uh on Lafayette Street down to my dorm, and I saw a friend of mine from my building with this other group of people, and she was like, Hey Daniel, like come with us. We have an extra ticket we're going to see in the heights. And it was like a dorm, you know, uh bonding night or whatever. And I was just like, oh, the last thing I want to do is like hang out with you guys and like have to go all the way back uptown.

I just want to get in bed and watch TV. But I was like, you know what? Like, it's it's a lovely day out, and like I've heard this show is good, and I haven't seen a Broadway show in a while, so sure. So we all get on the train and go up to the Richard Rogers Theater. I had no idea what the show was about. Um, and I just remember, like you're saying that opening number, I was just like transfixed, and I was so blown away by the show. It was something so fresh and original. And um, then of course it went on to one the Tony to win the Tony, and I I was so grateful that I decided to go see it, you know, when I was my true self. I was like, no, I just want to go eat ice cream and watch TV.

[24:28] Andréa Burns: I mean, that's why opening numbers are so important too. I mean, you know me, I I focus too much on opening numbers. I mean, like, you know, I I think it's safe to say most people would agree that the wedding singer, the musical, was uh not very good, you know, and it certainly was like, you know, quite like a flop on Broadway. But that opening number is so fabulous and melodic and engrossing that I really just like I just never got that mad at that show because I was just riding on that wave of good feeling, you know, or then something like Wicked, which like is obviously a great show. Yeah, but I mean it's you know, it's been running forever and it's such a just solid piece with so many incredible songs and has just creates such passion for people, you know.

And and yet I hate that opening number so much that the first couple of times I saw Wicked, I never got over it. I sat there like I didn't even appreciate Define Gravity or like, you know, I'm not that girl or for good, because I was just like so angry. I just, you know, you want the opening number to just turn you on in that way, you know, and yeah, and that's what that's what Lynn, you know, clearly just knows how to do, you know, almost in a class by himself, you know.

[25:54] Andréa Burns: I also something that is common in many different opening numbers that have in common me loving them, um it's like uh I love when they start kind of small and then they just keep getting bigger and bigger. And especially if it's like not just like like a single diagonal line at a 90 degree angle going up, but especially if there's like little plateaus and then quick rises and then maybe even momentary drops again, you know, so you just feel that like when you get to the climax of the opening number, you've just like lived this like completely like full journey, you know, in a way almost like a little like three-act play.

[26:36] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, exactly. You know, and and like and that's something that um it is so uh it's such a great um or or what Lynn does with that kind of hip hop musical theater is so is so perfect for it because it's it it allowed with rap, it's like you're able to get something that is as storytelling or even more storytelling than spoken dialogue, and yet um still completely a part of the music and you know, defines the rhythm in a way that then is so carried through that even when you get the more melodic parts of the number, that feeling of that rhythm that was happening in the rap section is still really uh feels integral to what you're experiencing. You know, sometimes musicals have uh they you know, I think they would think they're doing what I'm saying in terms, I mean, not to appease me, you know, but but I think they would describe themselves, you know, the writers would, you know, as starting small and then building and stuff.

[27:45] Daniel Nolen: But like oftentimes that just means that they have, you know, kind of like two different songs, you know.

[27:51] Andréa Burns: Or it means that you know, they just have like you know, slow scenes or something, you know, before the song gets going, you know, and I'm not having that. I want the number to start. I just want it to start from the ground up and have somewhere to go. And you know, and you do that's just you know, one of the things that Lynn gives you, you know.

[28:10] Ben Rimalower: Well, I love what Andrea says um about a good hands performer. You know, Lynn's a good hands performer. She said um uh Richard Kind said she was a good hands performer. Like uh someone who you know once the show starts, like, oh, you're in good hands. Like you can sit back and relax and let them take you on the journey.

[28:32] Andréa Burns: And I love that term so much that I'm gonna start using it every day of my life.

[28:38] Ben Rimalower: Totally. Um, yeah, it's it's it you just you just want to trust them, you know. I mean, that's why it's like you know, sometimes I think young performers and writers and stuff talk about like um, or you know, that there might be a tendency to give away to give too much, or you know, to um to say too much, not you know, to to spell things out, to be too on the nose, you know.

[29:03] Andréa Burns: And it's like the thing is you don't necessarily need to like make it um always so clear to the audience right from the beginning, you know, everything that's gonna happen. But we just want to feel like you what she said it great. She said, you know where you're going and how to get there, you know.

[29:22] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and and you can trust them to like drive the car.

[29:25] Andréa Burns: Exactly.

[29:26] Ben Rimalower: Because you know, I just like to take an Uber. I do not want to be not want to be driving.

[29:32] Andréa Burns: And you yeah, you just want the Uber and you want that uh cup holder and the armrest.

[29:36] Ben Rimalower: Cup holder and an armrest. Like, so if you get me a cup holder and a private armrest in a Broadway theater, I'd have a lot more patience with some more slow moving material. You know, that I know we've talked about this before, but that is uh one of the many uh appealing factors of a show in Provincetown, baby. Those cup holders in the armrests at the uh art house theater.

[29:58] Andréa Burns: Indeed.

[29:59] Ben Rimalower: I'm really right there with you about that. And you know, it's funny because like, you know, uh I I'm somewhat of a fan of uh this actress named Patti LuPone.

[30:09] Andréa Burns: No I played of her.

[30:11] Ben Rimalower: Yeah. You know, she when she rails about the audience misbehavior.

[30:19] Andréa Burns: I I've also heard of those taskmaster that she is.

[30:23] Ben Rimalower: I I do kind of disagree, you know, and they complain about like the people like eating and drinking in the theater. I'm like, no, let them fucking eat and drink, you know.

[30:32] Andréa Burns: Yeah, like I let I let people be comfortable. Like I don't want people on their devices, you know.

[30:40] Ben Rimalower: And I don't want them doing things that are distracting to other people from the show. But I also believe in like, you know, we we I think we need to invite people in to the theater, you know.

[30:51] Andréa Burns: I understand.

[30:51] Ben Rimalower: Well, it's still entertainment at the end of the day, you know, people go to be entertained and to enjoy themselves.

[30:57] Andréa Burns: You know, it's not like that.

[30:57] Ben Rimalower: Well, and if you're gonna you know, and even and you know, you want you want them to feel entertained even by something that has more important things to say.

[31:04] Andréa Burns: I mean, that's the things that the things that you and I have talked about as our greatest theatrical experiences in the audience, uh, have been things that were not stupid fluff pieces, you know.

[31:15] Ben Rimalower: Right, right.

[31:16] Andréa Burns: I mean, certainly a strange loop or Hamilton or Angels in America, you know, have a lot of important things to say, but they just do it in a way that's captivating and engrossing and just like real life, alternately hilarious or heartbreaking, you know, or absurd.

[31:33] Ben Rimalower: Um well, um by the way.

[31:37] Andréa Burns: Have you I uh I don't know if you've heard, but Angels in America, they recorded it and released it as like a basically a radio play.

[31:47] Ben Rimalower: Yes, I did hear that.

[31:49] Andréa Burns: And I downloaded it on Audible, and it is so fabulous. I listen to it sometimes when I'm walking, I listen to it when I'm going to bed sometimes.

[31:57] Ben Rimalower: And it's well, hey, if our if our listeners want to check that out themselves, maybe they should use the audible code broken records, and they can get 10% up.

[32:09] Andréa Burns: I was like, wait. I've heard that some people do that. They do fake commercials to make it look like they're more like famous than they are.

[32:18] Ben Rimalower: We should probably just start doing that.

[32:20] Andréa Burns: Yeah, we should.

[32:21] Ben Rimalower: I shouldn't have I shouldn't have cracked in the middle. Now if we try to do that next week, they'll be like, is it real though?

[32:30] Andréa Burns: Andréa Burns is real.

[32:32] Ben Rimalower: So she's real and a real treasure, and I loved every second of our chat with her. And I'm and and I think she, I don't know if I cannot remember now what was the actual interview and what was like our troubleshooting session.

[32:45] Andréa Burns: But um I do work our IT sesh. I do want to have her back to talk about like another album that she grew up listening to because you can tell she has such a deep love of the theatre and musical theater.

[33:01] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[33:02] Andréa Burns: Um, all right, well, uh here she is.

[33:10] Andréa Burns: Broken wreck.

[33:12] Ben Rimalower: It's recording.

[33:13] Andréa Burns: Wonderful. Well, Andrea, I have to tell you, you were like the like soundtrack of especially the beginning of the quarantine for me. I was just taking these like long walks, and I had my iTunes on shuffle, and uh these songs would keep coming on, and I'd be like, God, this is beautiful. Who is this?

[33:32] Andréa Burns: Oh, it's Andréa Burns. And then it would be like songs from your album that I like hadn't really like listened to that much when it first came out. And eventually I was just like, no, I'm just straight up listening to the album because it's like all I want to hear right now. And you was like, just your voice is just so beautiful.

[33:47] Andréa Burns: I think I just forgot because you're so funny and sassy, just what a beautiful voice you have.

[33:54] Andréa Burns: Thank you. Thanks, Ben. That's so sweet. And I love that I was in your ears during such a tricky time, you know? I think we'll always remember like what we were listening to.

[34:03] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[34:03] Andréa Burns: Um around this time. But thank you for that. I really appreciate it.

[34:06] Ben Rimalower: No, it's because I love to sing.

[34:09] Andréa Burns: Oh my god, like up on the roof. I was just like, Yeah, that's perfect.

[34:16] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[34:16] Andréa Burns: That's a perfect one.

[34:18] Ben Rimalower: Oh, well, thank you. And you know, that's like Chris Jackson doing um backup vocals and that arrangement up on the roof. He and Bill Sherman uh did that arrangement for me because I released that album right when right before we moved Heights to Broadway.

[34:34] Andréa Burns: So, you know, I had the great thrill of getting, you know, Lynn wrote a song for the album, Lackamart uh did a couple arrangements. It was fantastic. It was just an amazing creative time.

[34:43] Ben Rimalower: Which of those songs is by Lynn?

[34:48] Andréa Burns: Uh BTW right back.

[34:49] Ben Rimalower: I think it's pretty obvious.

[34:52] Andréa Burns: Of course. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[34:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and he was like, oh my god, this is the song. I have the song for you. And I'm like, oh, is it gonna be something sweeping and beautiful, like breathe or powerful and dynamic like Bastien Sei Fey. He was like, No, it's hilarious, and it's you.

[35:11] Andréa Burns: You're just too versatile. Like we all just have to be reminded that there's just been more facets.

[35:16] Ben Rimalower: Well, I appreciate that. Thank you.

[35:18] Andréa Burns: Thank you. One time my husband, who's a director, you know, who helps me put together like my one woman shows.

[35:24] Ben Rimalower: Uh we were seeing somebody's like cabaret evening, and I was like, this is so great. It's a variety show. Maybe I should have like guests. And he was like, Andrea, you are a variety show.

[35:31] Andréa Burns: Yes, yes.

[35:35] Ben Rimalower: You are. You are your own guest stars.

[35:38] Andréa Burns: I love that.

[35:40] Ben Rimalower: Well, I'm very sad. I missed you at 54 below the last time you were there.

[35:44] Andréa Burns: And now I'm just like kicking myself so much.

[35:47] Ben Rimalower: Um but uh but I've had a lot of also. I I think you were you I know you've done this recently, this show about Judy Holiday.

[35:56] Andréa Burns: Um uh what's it called?

[35:57] Ben Rimalower: Uh Smart Blonde.

[35:58] Andréa Burns: Smart Blonde.

[35:59] Ben Rimalower: But didn't you did uh the Claudia Shear show, Dirty Blonde at some point, didn't you?

[36:05] Andréa Burns: No, no, I didn't. I never did that.

[36:06] Ben Rimalower: I'm a I'm a fan, but I never did that show.

[36:09] Andréa Burns: No. Just I'm just hallucinating.

[36:12] Ben Rimalower: Well, I I would say sad because I think at one point I I won't I don't know why I had an idea that you were doing it and I was gonna go see it, and then I didn't anyway.

[36:19] Andréa Burns: But um I there's many broken hearted memories I have with you.

[36:22] Ben Rimalower: I didn't see you in working at City Center, which I'm so yeah, that was a blast.

[36:27] Andréa Burns: And um, I that's uh that's another sassy funny number, though.

[36:30] Ben Rimalower: It's an art.

[36:31] Andréa Burns: I uh I just re is reinforcing my my preconceived notions of you, um, which is so crazy because I first discovered you not being funny and sassy, but being beautiful and soulful in um in Songs for a New World.

[36:45] Andréa Burns: I mean, that's you're the the voice of a generation.

[36:48] Ben Rimalower: I mean, a million, a million girls in piano bars in your shadow singing, I'm not afraid of anything, and I'd give it all for you, just wishing they could sound that way.

[36:58] Andréa Burns: Isn't that amazing? And you know, that show was born in piano bars.

[37:02] Ben Rimalower: Um, you know, that's where Jason certainly got his start.

[37:05] Andréa Burns: And yeah, and and Billy, and that's where he met Billy Porter, who started singing a lot of the stuff early on, and um, but anyway, that means a lot, and thanks.

[37:14] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[37:15] Andréa Burns: No, that I mean I remember people playing that for me.

[37:18] Ben Rimalower: Uh, like I think I was even still in college, and it was like, you know, that and you guys were not much older than we were, and it was like, you know, this was like the dream of New York and the legend of like Daisy and Hal, like picking Jason out of the piano bar and taking him to Broadway and the whole thing.

[37:37] Andréa Burns: Yeah, it really is.

[37:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, totally.

[37:39] Andréa Burns: And you know, and it would be a great what it should be a movie.

[37:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[37:46] Andréa Burns: Yeah, it would be a print Prince Brown.

[37:49] Ben Rimalower: Brown Prince.

[37:50] Andréa Burns: Yes.

[37:53] Ben Rimalower: Well, another another um Broadway fairy tale come true, obviously, is um Lynn Manuel Miranda, just the you know, just biggest dream in decades.

[38:04] Andréa Burns: And and you know, it and it, and it's I I guess I remember hearing about Lynn with like um Freestyle Love Supreme and Arsenova.

[38:14] Ben Rimalower: Um I used to go see stuff there, but I hadn't seen that.

[38:17] Andréa Burns: But I saw In the Heights at 37 Arts, and um was just you know, so blown away, you know, as was of course, like just everybody.

[38:25] Ben Rimalower: And I wanted to know like when did you get involved with that? When did Lynn come onto your radar? How did that all come together?

[38:34] Andréa Burns: Um, yeah, well, I was, I think it was 2000, I know like 2004, end of 2004, because I had uh I had had my son in end of 2003, and he was approaching his first birthday when I got a call to do um a reading of uh of In the Heights, and it was just act one, and we didn't really know what it was, and and uh I didn't know the team at all.

[39:02] Andréa Burns: I didn't know um, but a friend had said to me they're amazing, and and she knew about freestyle, and she was like, You gotta go check them out, they're brilliant. This this team of guys is just brilliant.

[39:12] Andréa Burns: And uh so I went and it was like one of the first things I was doing benefits and things, but uh, you know, it was like one of the first things that had me like out of the house.

[39:20] Andréa Burns: Um, as far as like, you know, I was I was at home taking care of my baby, and just like uh so I was like very excited to be just in a rehearsal room.

[39:31] Andréa Burns: And um, I went to do, I think we did that reading, and Tommy Cale was there, and he introduced Lynn and basically said, You guys, I don't think you've ever heard anything like this before. I'm very excited to share it with you.

[39:42] Andréa Burns: And we did a read through and Lynn sang all the songs, and we just read through. And I think it was the first time they had decided to, you know, Chiara was on the team, Chiara Allegria Judez was on the team as a writer, and she had really expanded this idea of Vusnavi and his friends to like the block and the neighborhood.

[40:03] Andréa Burns: So I think it was the first time they had put in the salon and the salon ladies. And um, and so, you know, I tell the story of sitting around that table, and you know, the first time you hear Lynn do that opening number.

[40:19] Andréa Burns: I just remember, you know, I'm like looking at the page, and then all of a sudden that that slow take up, like, what is happening? Yeah, you know, this is the most fresh thing I've heard in a long time.

[40:31] Andréa Burns: And I've done so much development for so many new musicals and and been so lucky really to have worked with a lot of people at the beginning of great things, you know, Jason included.

[40:43] Andréa Burns: And so it was like, whoa, this is also something I know it when I see it. I know it when I'm in the room with it.

[40:49] Ben Rimalower: Um recently I did a reading, I don't know if it was like last summer, with Heath Saunders.

[40:55] Andréa Burns: I think he's a writer like that, where I go, Oh, I know it. I know it when I'm in the room with somebody like that.

[41:00] Ben Rimalower: Oh, we heard it, we heard it here first. We're gonna we're gonna spread that around.

[41:03] Andréa Burns: Yeah.

[41:03] Ben Rimalower: I'm so glad you said the opening number early in the heights because it it is so fresh, and you know, and as fresh as it is now, it was even fresher in 2000, you know, five or whatever that was.

[41:15] Andréa Burns: But um, but but also you immediately know you're in the good hands of someone that understands what makes musical theater great, yeah, how to just galvanize and and bring the audience in.

[41:29] Andréa Burns: I mean, it's just it's you just can just sit back and enjoy that so immediately.

[41:35] Andréa Burns: Um, I agree a hundred percent. And let me just say, Ben, like I just, you know, um, this is we're just getting to know each other now, but I've always admired that you're like a young person with an old school sensibility. You know, you really are. And I felt like that as a young person. Now I'm an older person with an old school sensibility. Okay, in my age. You know, yeah, but I mean, we then then we know. I mean, I was Patty Obsessed too. Well, that'll be another time. But yeah, all right. You know, we know that's why I had to see your show. We know where the goods are. Like, and something that you just said, which is something that I like to use a lot, is um the idea of a performer, uh a good hands performer.

Um, I actually had uh the amazing and hilarious Richard Kind said uh paid me this compliment um many years ago. I think I was doing the full Monty, and he said to me, you know, Andrea, you're a good hands performer. Like I know I'm a good hands when you come on stage. And I just took that, not only is such a compliment, but I recognize it in others. I'm like, yes, this person is gonna take me out. I can sit back. This person is driving the car, they know the way. Right. And I can really trust the ride. And I think clearly Lynn uh was one of those people in addition to being P.T. Barnum and Harold Hill and all the magical things that he is. Yeah, um, you also know it's steeped in such a love of traditional musical theater, yeah, that he's gonna pour all his innovation and creativity into it, but he knows he he knows the car.

Yeah, you know, it's like he he built the car out of good parts. Does that make sense? But um, so yeah, that was an amazing time uh at 37 Arts. So but when I saw him do that reading, which was 2004, um, yeah, I was just blown away. I was like, this is incredibly fresh. And I stuck with the development of it. In fact, bringing it back to Hal Prince, I was slated to do his new Broadway show, Love Music with Donna Murphy and Michael Cerberus. And I had to, because you know, thanks to Songs for a New World, um, Hal became uh a friend and mentor to uh to myself, to my husband. Um, and uh, and so I had to write a really heartfelt letter to Hal because it was either go do Love Music on Broadway or go do In the Heights at 37 Arts.

And I had a gut feeling about, and I loved being a part of Love Music. It was all about Kurt Weill and a really cool project and have brilliant people in it. But I just had a really gut feeling about this, and I had to write him a letter that said, Look, I just feel this is hugely important. I haven't been part of a Latin musical written by an authentic Latin voice. I feel like this person is changing the game, and I'm I'm here for it and I want to be part of it. And I know this sounds insane because I'm doing an off-Broadway show instead of a Broadway show, and I so value, you know, everything, you know, this opportunity that you're giving me, but I I have to go with my gut. And um, and uh it was I just knew I knew that first reading.

I just was like, this this kid is very special. Yeah, what and really just a kid then, but um, and you know, it's funny hearing you talk about it as uh as a Latin connection because it as you growing up, I know that your um your dad is Jewish and your mom is from Venezuela. Is that right?

[45:14] Andréa Burns: Yes, and yes, that you must have as someone who grew up loving musical theater, there's so much Jewish stuff in musicals, you know, and obviously the fiddler on the roofs, but even just all the Jewish guys that were writing them and you know, and all that.

[45:29] 100%.

[45:30] Andréa Burns: But it must have been such a great full circle for you to then have sort of the other half of your roots come into play in the musical.

[45:40] 100%, Ben. Wow, that's you know, absolutely true. I felt, you know, I grew up feeling actually, you know, very culturally Jewish. And yet I grew up in Miami, uh, where uh there was a huge Cuban population. And um, I always say, like, I'm not Cuban, but I have a Cuban heart. Like I grew up around so much of that culture. Um, but yes, I felt very culturally Jewish, and my affinity for Broadway felt very Jewish. You know, I felt very connected to that side of me. And uh, although I I spoke fluent Spanish my whole life and you know, certainly around all of my relatives and spent summers in Venezuela, but it really was In the Heights that I just kept those worlds very separate. Yeah, and I didn't really, yeah, I I actually could not have dreamed that somebody would have done that because even working on West Side Story, which was, you know, I mean, there was only I always say like there was only a few games in town, right?

If you were cast you were wanted to do a Latin show, right? And I was like, it was like Evita, Aldonza, Anita, Maria. You know, like those were the games, you know, then maybe Aurora. They're all A. They all end in A. Um, but uh even those you could sense, you know, were written by uh non-Latin people first. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so um with a great respect, certainly Bernstein's great respect and love for the music. Yeah, um, but um, yeah, so this was, I just couldn't believe that I was in a musical, and there were things that were so authentically part of my growing up that were incorporated into this medium in a way that I never would have thought possible. And you know, I actually just believe it or not, just uh one of the quarantine first, I taught a Zoom class in Australia recently and talking about Latin music and its influence into the Broadway uh into Broadway shows.

And and I do talk about how it's like primarily written by Jewish men, you know, um in the beginning and then how it flips and and you take some of the real old school salsa, you know, old school roots of salsa music and somehow this guy put like rhyming lyrics to it, you know? To things that would normally like the one I always call out is in the club. It's like a it's what we call like a montuno in salsa music. It's all it's always like a piano but in this suddenly in the club it was Vanessa let me get the next one Vanessa let me interject. I just was like you can put words to that like I was blown away by the fact that he took this like you know piano motif you know that lives you know has like clavier in the pocket and it's just this thing that I would hear not only in um old school salsa but of course growing up in Miami and Gloria Estefan that kind of stuff I was like I can't believe that guy just put lyrics to that.

[48:49] Andréa Burns: Yeah, yeah oh that's fascinating. And it takes them so well. I mean it's so incredible how when other people have tried even rock and roll. I mean, certainly we all love certain, you know, rock and roll flavored musicals, some more legitimately rock and roll than others, you know. But even rock and roll, it still feels a little bit maybe like a um it almost works in spite of it being rock and roll, or you know, or somehow that's at odds with the theatricality or with the narrative with the storytelling. But here you get something where it feels as perfect for musical theater as any other form that you know as Rogers and Hammerstein or Bernstein or anybody.

[49:34] Andréa Burns: Yes. Well, I have one answer to that, and that is because Lynn loves the theater equally. That's what makes Lynn so magical is that he has the same amount of love for hip hop for Broadway that he does for hip hop. He has the same amount of love for, you know, for Fiddler than he does for, you know, Celia Cruz and Marc Anthony, and you know, so uh that that was the magic, that was the secret sauce to me. Yeah, yeah. Because often you'll see people bring obviously in musical theater, I mean, we're so we are trained and skilled to tell all different kinds of stories, and so we have to manipulate our voices and whatever the style asks for, right?

[50:19] Andréa Burns: Yeah. But the but often, you know, there's always been this thing to like, you know, make Broadway cooler than it is. Yeah. Let's bring this influence and this influence. And you know, don't you know, don't look at the Broadway behind the curtain. Look at all this flashy other kind of stuff that we have here. Yeah, right. Yeah. And but the difference was here's a guy who said, no, like I want to take all that stuff that I love that's cool and put it in my favorite medium. And that was what was so thrilling to be around. And here you have a you know, Puerto Rican kid from Washington Heights who also thinks like uh he's like you know, he he's Jerry Buck. He thinks like an old Jewish guy. You know, that's part of his sensibility, and that's what's magical about it.

He never dismissed the Broadway for the sake of being other than Broadway, and I think that's the magic of it. Did you feel um, you know, was there a time, for example, when you guys were still off Broadway within In the Heights, where were there voices coming to the table or that you had to hear as an actor uh about the concern would this work in a more mainstream commercial venue? Would there be the audiences for it? Was there any kind of attempt to dumb things down or or whitewash or anything?

[51:43] Andréa Burns: That's a really good question. I think only in my memory, that really was only from the critics, by the way. Um, because we had our producers, Kevin McCullough and Jeffrey Lesser were really excited about it. I did not feel that they were really excited about it. You know, I don't feel that they were putting that pressure. I think they got who Lynn was. They got, you know, once we had that whole team, Tommy Kail, Lynn, Alex Lacamoire, Eddie Black and Beeler, Upiara Allegria, who there's it's like, what a team. You know, everybody was making smart and great decisions every day. And uh no, however, what you what is amazing to think about, because it was 2007, which is really not that long ago, um, there was a review that said it makes I enjoyed this, but it is very difficult to believe that I'd be watching uh something to the effect of people in this neighborhood, and they're you know, it's a little bit of a fairy tale that there wouldn't be a drug deal or a or a shooting.

[52:48] Andréa Burns: Wow. You know, take place. Yeah, like this okay, this was not written in like 1969, you know. This was, and so they wrote that, and I just remember thinking the shoe takes place over 48 hours. It's not even like a six-month period. Yeah, like you just cannot wrap your head around that, that nothing would happen on this block. I mean, you know, so yeah, and of course, that you know, that critic wouldn't be caught dead saying anything like that today, but yeah, that was real. That was something that was said.

[53:21] Andréa Burns: Wow. Wow, I mean it it it's I mean, it's it's sad when when the when criticism that should be pointing, you know, the way towards uh people discovering art that might be outside where their interest level would naturally take them instead of you know closing doors. I mean, that's just uh that's kind of gross, but but I wonder how many of them would think that way now, even if they wouldn't write that in a review, you know.

[53:51] Andréa Burns: Um, but right. Well, this is a learning curve for everybody. Yeah, we're gonna be able to do that. And and quite frankly, In the Heights was I I always use this quote of Lynn's because it's just so dead on. And he said, I loved musical theater and I wanted to be a musical where I could be Puerto Rican, but there wouldn't be a knife in my hand, and there wasn't one. So I wrote one.

[54:11] Andréa Burns: Wow. And I think that really did change everything because I think a lot of people, you know, it's like what we're all talking about now, right? We all have our inherent preconceived notions of anybody that is other from us, and and why if all you all you see is, you know, the news or you know, or night fights in West Side Story or whatever it is, why would you be privy to the culture of an abuela the way we are?

[54:43] Totally.

[54:44] Andréa Burns: Right? Yeah. And so that was the beauty of it was I think as a cast, remember, we were the first audience. So we would just be looking at each other going, I just can't believe this. I can't believe that all of the so many of the archetypes of our families are out here just in full and celebrated. And I think maybe it was us that said, I don't know. I don't know if people will buy this. I'm loving every minute of it because I get it. But who knows?

[55:14] Andréa Burns: I'm hopeful you you shared that Lynn quote, because I I hadn't heard that. And that's really so inspiring. I mean, and that's really the, you know, it's such a great message for this time that we're living in now, because it, you know, it's it's like you said, I mean, you know, you could play Anita and Maria and Evita, but but those are written by non-Latins, you know, and how much more powerful uh and empowering it is for people to create their own their own stories, tell their own stories.

[55:44] Andréa Burns: And um, that's such a great message, you know, for people. I'm so excited for this uh In the Heights movie to finally come out and Hamilton being so huge, uh just gives it such a bigger uh platform, you know, than it might have had five years ago.

[56:05] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[56:05] Andréa Burns: Um and you know what makes me excited also about Hamilton coming out on Disney Plus? I'm really glad it's not a movie. Like once again, it's Lynn championing for Broadway. Do you know what I mean?

[56:19] Ben Rimalower: Oh, sure.

[56:20] Andréa Burns: I mean, I'm sure everyone's begging for those rights. And maybe later he will, but I feel like once again, it's like, yeah, but this is the thing I wrote, and this is the medium I chose, and this is the one that matters.

[56:32] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[56:33] Andréa Burns: You know? And it's bringing theater to households that normally may not be able to experience that.

[56:38] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[56:39] Andréa Burns: Right. Or even just that wouldn't. I mean, it's like, you know, part of I think what was so gratifying for all of us Broadway fans watching the success of Lynn and Hamilton, having already loved him and loved In the Heights, was then to see Hamilton be successful, and so many people that don't like musical theater and might not be Broadway fans clamoring to get tickets, you know.

[57:03] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[57:03] Andréa Burns: And to see him embraced as like a legitimate hip hop star, and you know, not just like a Broadway pretender trying to be cool or whatever, you know.

[57:12] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[57:12] Andréa Burns: And um, so so now all those people are gonna have this in their, you know, living rooms or on their, you know, iPads at the gym or wherever they're gonna watch it. I mean, um, it really just keeps expanding it. Um what what was that like for you then to have that that pride and that investment as you know the sort of OG um lit crew, and then to go to witness this just not of Hamilton.

[57:43] Andréa Burns: Um, you know, incredible thrilling, not as surprising to us as it was to everybody else, you know. I mean, I feel like I'm so thrilled for everyone who got to be part of Hamilton and its meteoric rise, and I can't even imagine what it was for people like Chris Jackson who've been with him since Freestyle, you know. Um, but I take such there's such joy in my heart and gratitude for the fact that we were the ones that introduced him to the world.

[58:13] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[58:14] Andréa Burns: Like I feel like as proud and excited as anyone of the Hamilton cast members must have been to be like, oh my God, we're about to like do that, you know, share this with the world. Um, I just remember the thrill of all of us circling up and and wanting so badly to deliver like what he gave us.

[58:40] Ben Rimalower: Right?

[58:40] Andréa Burns: Like, oh my gosh, I don't know. I just hope everybody loves this as hard as I do. It's my responsibility to like make sure they do.

[58:49] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, and that the fact that that was questionable, yeah, was is terribly exciting and made it so rewarding. I think by Hamilton, everyone knew that effort was gonna be something big.

[58:58] Andréa Burns: Yeah, and um, I I've been, you know, who knew it would rise, you know. I mean, to global to be the global sensation and and make him the global star that he is. But again, you know, I believe he was meant to be that.

[59:12] Ben Rimalower: And yeah, and also I love what you say about like he's a real hip hop guy, not like a poser. I think this all ultimately all comes down to are you really all in? You know, he wasn't a guy who was like, Let me put in a couple of cute hip hop things to make me look cool. She was like, no, I love this and I love this, and I love this, and I'm throwing it all into the recipe, and I'm putting it in the oven. That's what it is.

[59:39] Andréa Burns: And um, I think there's a lot of love for someone who is uh authentically all in.

[59:47] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[59:48] Andréa Burns: You know, I love that. It's and and in this day and age, we get exposed in right. And in this day and age, we get exposed to little bits of everything. You know, we can only take in so much. Um so that it's it's I think it's harder to become um obsessed in this that's a sense of the words that like we were obsessed the way we were as kids.

[1:00:13] Andréa Burns: Um uh, you know, how we knew everybody on the, you know, I knew everybody on the Evita album. I knew every, you know, I would read those liner notes, like it just all meant so much to me. And um I mean, I got In the Heights. I was like, John Herrera, replacement She. I mean, that was the first thing that came to my mind.

[1:00:35] Ben Rimalower: Exactly, replacement She.

[1:00:37] Andréa Burns: I love that. Oh my god. I feel like you were and I have to sit down for a few hours and just nerd nerd out for a while. But um yes, uh, but I think that that authentic, like I'll share with you one thing. This is totally random, but um, I had the pleasure of working with Kate McKinnon on a reading of something that she's considering doing, bringing to New York. And um, yeah, and she was so cool, right? Sorry.

[1:01:05] Andréa Burns: But anyway, she was uh she was just cool and great and just doing her thing, and I'm you know, I'm good, kicking out, and like I can't believe I'm sitting in a room with Kate McKinnon, and you know, and uh afterwards, first of all, then we had to do it for like a bunch of suits, right? People to decide if they wanted to like invest in this and what they were gonna do, and obviously everything's on hold now, but uh she was nervous, and I was thinking, like, why are you nervous? Like, you're so this is a reading, this is probably twice as much more. Two days of rehearsal of a reading is probably 10 times what an SNL rehearsal process is like, right?

[1:01:44] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[1:01:44] Andréa Burns: So um I was like, and it's funny and you're great and whatever. So she A, she's so honored, like the legitimacy of, yeah, but this is like the American theater. So that of course, like my heart flutter a little bit. I'm told for that. But then we were like, she said to me, So, you know, you did In the Heights, like, what's like your dream musical? And I very foolishly, I'm embarrassed to say, was like, I don't know, because I just didn't want to look uncool to Kate McKinnon. Let's just face it.

[1:01:54] Ben Rimalower: Of course.

[1:02:14] Andréa Burns: So I was like, I didn't want to get into it. I just didn't want to be. Can you believe I threw my my great love of life? You know, my church under the bus. I was like, I don't know, you know, whatever.

[1:02:27] Ben Rimalower: We've all been.

[1:02:29] Andréa Burns: Right. Meanwhile, she's like, well, I love Sweeney Todd, but mostly I really love Andrew Lippa's The Wild Party.

[1:02:35] Ben Rimalower: Wow.

[1:02:38] Andréa Burns: And I was like, oh, snap. You're the real deal.

[1:02:43] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:44] Andréa Burns: You know, it's just like with that sentence, that's what I'm talking about. She wasn't trying to be like, I'm gonna like musicals too. I was like, oh, you're no, you're like, you're like for real.

[1:02:57] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:59] Andréa Burns: And that just, of course, you know, made me love her all the more. But that's what comes up when I think about what you're saying, like not being a poser. Like it was just so clear, like, oh no, you love it. You love this. I get it. Like, I'll put you in a musical just for that.

[1:03:13] Ben Rimalower: We we always we always talk about that on the pod, actually, like how when people like the thing about themselves that's so weird or unique that they're afraid is too weird and won't succeed, when they lean into that and be the most who they are that they can, that's usually when they actually do succeed.

[1:03:34] Andréa Burns: And and yeah, you know, people recognize that.

[1:03:38] Ben Rimalower: I couldn't agree more a hundred percent. I'm an educator, it's what I say all the time. I got a 30-year career behind me, and I was there going, Oh, yeah, I don't know, musical theater and stuff, you know.

[1:03:48] Andréa Burns: We all we all go back to like, you know, it's it's something you have to fight, you know, all of a sudden you're in like the middle school playground going, like, yeah, I like Broadway and stuff, whatever, it's not important.

[1:04:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that's real.

[1:04:03] Andréa Burns: But my sister and I always talk about there was this like cousin of ours who was like his parents were really rich. They like lived in Chappaqua. He had like this incredible record collection, and I would be so impressed when I'd go over, and then he'd be like, What kind of music are you into? And I was into like Cindy Lauper and Madonna and like Stacey Q, and like, you know, Stacey Q.

[1:04:24] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, that's like really where I was like Oh my god, I love that.

[1:04:28] Andréa Burns: I haven't heard that name in a long time. But I remember saying, like, oh, you know, like tacky female singers, and like my sister was just like always talked about that, that she saw me just like be like ashamed of myself, like for no reason, you know. And um it was uh it you know, it's I think that we all carry that around, you know, and that it's like the to have that in a moment when somebody asks you what you're into is like not if that doesn't get in the way with what you're doing your work, that's I think maybe the main you know goal.

[1:05:06] Ben Rimalower: Right, right.

[1:05:07] Andréa Burns: But um, and I think you know, throwing it back to Lynn, I think his superpower is just like this is what I love. Any questions?

[1:05:15] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:15] Andréa Burns: And people respect that because like you're saying, it's done with such um she's so sure of himself and he knows uh his stuff and he's not posing. He actually has he's done the research and done the work. I mean, I think one of my favorite moments on the Tony Awards is like, I mean, obviously, all the ones that you would be my favorite ones, but um is the 2009 Tonies, and just like at the very end, as the credits rolled, it was Lynn and Audra doing um that uh um Alicia uh Alicia Keys' uh New York, you know.

[1:05:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:51] Andréa Burns: And we're all well, yeah, because Audra did the famous mic drop that everybody was talking about. But uh, but it was uh it was just so magical. It was exactly that. It was just him just like reveling in it, you know, and we all were there with him.

[1:06:07] Ben Rimalower: Well, you know what In the Heights uh is such a part of that, and and your your warmth and your humor and just you know, life force are such a part of that for the fans and that what that history is. So we're really grateful to you.

[1:06:20] Andréa Burns: We we'll get you, Andrea.

[1:06:24] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[1:06:25] Andréa Burns: Oh my gosh, thank you. It was a great, great joyful experience that I'll always be incredibly proud of.

[1:06:32] Ben Rimalower: Well, and in the meantime, we we all have the the cast album to which will you give it to us? If I say that I'm dropping out of Stanford, will you tell me what kind of a piece of it is?

[1:06:44] Andréa Burns: That's it.

[1:06:47] Ben Rimalower: I love it.

[1:06:48] Andréa Burns: That is amazing.

[1:06:57] Ben Rimalower: I'm gonna get it on a t shirt.

[1:06:59] Andréa Burns: That's too good.

[1:07:01] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god.

[1:07:02] Andréa Burns: Oh my gosh. So much. We love you. We're gonna and do you have any more nights coming up this week or coming soon where you're gonna be um subbing for Seth Rudetsky on uh Stars in the House?

[1:07:12] Andréa Burns: Oh, I'm I'm the permanent Monday host.

[1:07:15] Ben Rimalower: Oh, wonderful.

[1:07:16] Andréa Burns: Oh my god. All right, well we'll be tuning in.

[1:07:19] Ben Rimalower: We'll be tuning in.

[1:07:20] Andréa Burns: Thank you. I'm loving you. And we gotta have you back on and just talk and just really nerd out on like some cast album kid or whatever.

[1:07:30] Andréa Burns: Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes. I'm so there.

[1:07:35] Ben Rimalower: Thank you, Andrea. Take care, thank you.

[1:07:38] Andréa Burns: All right. Well, we'll we'll we'll see you soon, hopefully, uh in a in a new healed world without masks and all that. But uh, but I bet I bet you're someone who smile we could see even even over the over the fabric, the fabric curtain.

[1:07:53] Andréa Burns: What a sweet. What a sweet thing to say. Um, thank you. But you know, masked, even with our masks on, we keep we keep moving forward and doing the work and celebrating each other and celebrating what we do and the people and the makers and authentic voices who make it. Like we're just gonna keep doing it like you're doing with this podcast. It's wonderful.

[1:08:12] Ben Rimalower: Well, you're wonderful. We love you.

[1:08:13] Andréa Burns: Thank you.

[1:08:14] Ben Rimalower: We love you.

[1:08:15] Andréa Burns: Thank you.

[1:08:16] Ben Rimalower: Bye.

[1:08:17] Andréa Burns: Uh, take care, you guys. Thank you.

[1:08:19] Ben Rimalower: Bye.

[1:08:20] Andréa Burns: Wow.

[1:08:23] Ben Rimalower: Thanks for listening to Ben Rimalower's Broken Records on Broadway World. For more episodes, visit Broadway World, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be. And be sure to check out our new twice-weekly live stream video chat. Tuesday, Thursday, April, August. Available on the Broadway World Facebook page and the Broadway Podcast Network YouTube channel Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10:30 a.m.

[1:08:46] Daniel Nolen: This episode was edited by me, Daniel Nolen. Thanks to Emmy winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the Broken Records theme song. Follow us both, Ben Rimalower and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials. That's Ben Rimalower, B-E-N R-I-M A-L-O-W-E-R. And that's Nolan with an E, not Nolan with an A. Because Nolan with an A is an A.