This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] ♪ Musical number ♪

[0:33] Ben Rimalower: Welcome to Ben Rimmelauer's Broken Records on Broadway World Broadway Podcast Network and in some markets, Broadway on Demand.

[0:41] Ben Rimalower: I am your host, Ben Rimmelauer, and I am here with the holiest of holies, Daniel Nolen.

[0:50] Daniel Nolen: Thank you.

[0:51] Daniel Nolen: Hey y'all.

[0:52] Ben Rimalower: Today we are taking a little step, not so much out of our comfort zone, because this, if anything is in our comfort zone, it is this show.

[1:02] Daniel Nolen: It sure is.

[1:03] Ben Rimalower: But we are doing something a little different today, which is we are doing our—is it our first TV show? Is that right?

[1:10] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it seems so crazy because all I do is watch TV shows, but I think it is our first time QuaranStreaming an actual TV show.

[1:21] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, which I mean it makes me excited to see the response to this because technically your favorite piece of art is a TV show.

[1:30] Daniel Nolen: Uh, Showstoppers, the best of Broadway.

[1:33] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[1:34] Daniel Nolen: I mean, we have done a lot of TV broadcasts.

[1:37] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[1:39] Daniel Nolen: Oh god, Showstoppers.

[1:42] Ben Rimalower: Um, it was a dark time.

[1:45] Daniel Nolen: You love to hate it.

[1:46] Ben Rimalower: Uh, no, no, many, many wonderful performances in that piece. Um, just like there are in this piece. Uh, Girls5eva.

[1:56] Daniel Nolen: OMG I Heart Girls5eva.

[2:00] Ben Rimalower: I want to be three gather with them five ever.

[2:06] Daniel Nolen: What are you waiting for?

[2:09] Ben Rimalower: I am waiting five getting three morrow or later this week when we can share our joy with the world.

[2:21] Daniel Nolen: This is—it's like pig Latin.

[2:22] Ben Rimalower: It's like it kind of takes some thinking as you're talking in the language.

[2:27] Daniel Nolen: Not smart enough.

[2:28] Ben Rimalower: My pandemic brain is not able to do that.

[2:32] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it's all too smart for me.

[2:35] Ben Rimalower: Um, snap snap.

[2:37] Daniel Nolen: Sounds like you are just smart enough.

[2:39] Ben Rimalower: I uh, I'm smart enough, but what I'm not, as we were saying before we started this, uh, because you funnily enough changed your name on here, even though I'm the only one who can see it, which I appreciate. Um, just like I do on our weekly live stream chat show next year, some year, available on Broadway World's Facebook page as well as Broadway Podcast Network's YouTube channel, where every week I have a different name, some variation on my name, then, but in keeping with the um things being discussed on that episode.

[3:15] Daniel Nolen: I do that when we record the podcast on the podcast um, uh, what do you call it? Programcaster?

[3:23] Ben Rimalower: Um, and I do it, and the only person that ever will know about it or see it is Daniel, but I do it just to make Daniel laugh.

[3:30] Daniel Nolen: And I can only really see half of it because it cuts off most of it. So it's kind of a fun exercise when I have to actually ask what it is.

[3:39] Ben Rimalower: And so today I just say "Free Phil," and Ben said it's "Free Phillips," which is the opposite of Busy Phillips, and I said, "Honey, I am the opposite of Busy Phillips these days, too. I am wide open Phillips."

[3:52] Daniel Nolen: Mm-mm.

[3:53] Ben Rimalower: Uh, people are like, I know people message me, like, "Let's get coffee soon. I know you're probably really busy." I'm like, if you only knew how non-busy I am.

[4:03] Daniel Nolen: Except that for me, the whole spectrum has shifted.

[4:07] Ben Rimalower: Like, oh, sure, for sure, for sure. Like what I consider busy is just different.

[4:13] Daniel Nolen: Exactly.

[4:17] Ben Rimalower: I'm like, yeah, I'm busy, but I'm busy watching Nomadland for the third time in one week.

[4:22] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[4:23] Ben Rimalower: I have a date with uh, Frances McDormand.

[4:26] Daniel Nolen: Well, them's uh, Nomadland recommending words.

[4:32] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes. Francis, uh, a friend of the pod, Dana, on um, Lady Watch Awards podcast, which is great. Uh, I love how she refers to it as Frances McDormandland.

[4:45] Daniel Nolen: Um, yeah, this is not about Nomadland, but I will say I did watch it again, and it's such a great movie, especially when you're just like blissed out in bed and wanting to take a journey with like old women who are penniless and traveling across the country.

[5:02] Ben Rimalower: Um, speaking of taking a journey with old women, I um, funny enough, will be appearing as Rose Nylon in—actually, her name is Rose Nylon—in the Golden Girls parody.

[5:16] Daniel Nolen: Which I—you texted me this and you said I'm appearing as Rose, and I thought you were like guest starring as Mama Rose.

[5:26] Ben Rimalower: That is just how gay I am, just out gaying the Golden Girls.

[5:30] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, truly, truly.

[5:32] Ben Rimalower: That is so funny. I just can't picture you as a Rose.

[5:35] Daniel Nolen: It would be one.

[5:37] Ben Rimalower: In Jericho, Long Island.

[5:38] Daniel Nolen: I didn't picture myself as a Rose either. When I got the first um message saying that they wanted me to replace a performer in the Golden Girls parody show, I actually posted this on Twitter because I was like, you know what? I'm a Dorothy Sun, Sophia Moon with a Blanche rising.

[5:57] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[5:58] Ben Rimalower: And I really truly feel like the one Golden Girl that I'm not is Rose.

[6:03] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[6:04] Ben Rimalower: Um, but wouldn't you know it? The role that they needed me for is Rose. But I have to say, I was doing the script in my apartment, and um, I feel like I can get there. I feel like it's—Rose is in my wheelhouse too.

[6:20] Daniel Nolen: Totally.

[6:20] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, Betty White was famously the opposite of Rose in real life.

[6:25] Daniel Nolen: So many people don't realize that Betty White was a middle-aged hairy Jewish man with a distinctive voice and a taste for loud belters.

[6:34] Ben Rimalower: Right, exactly.

[6:35] Daniel Nolen: Um, that—oh my god, I'm so stupid. That's—you like text me that you said I'm playing—they want me to play Rose, and I was literally picturing you like starring as like Mama Rose coming onto the—into Miami to visit. Like I thought that's how gay it was. They were doing a little crossover.

[6:52] Ben Rimalower: I was like, well, of course they would want Ben for Mama Rose. Like, who else could play it?

[6:55] Daniel Nolen: Thank you. That is the nicest compliment I've ever received.

[6:59] Ben Rimalower: How strongly I associate you with that role is that like I just assumed it was Madame Rose, not Rosen Island.

[7:05] Daniel Nolen: Oh, I really, I'm really deeply touched. Um, anyway, well, that was—that's the pod. Thank you guys for tuning in and listening.

[7:14] Ben Rimalower: Broken record.

[7:16] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, cue the theme song.

[7:18] Ben Rimalower: Cue the Golden Girls theme song. Um, well, speaking of Golden Girls, no greater segue. Uh, because this show gives us four different ladies.

[7:29] Daniel Nolen: Um, you know, it's—we do the same thing we do when watching Sex in the City or Golden Girls is the whole time I'm just like assigning each uh lady to different people I know and who would play who.

[7:40] Ben Rimalower: Um, and Girls5eva is uh kind of—I think you said this as we were watching it together. It's kind of like our current version of Golden Girls, or it has the potential to be what Golden Girls was.

[7:54] Daniel Nolen: Slash Designing Women slash Sex in the City.

[7:57] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I have to say, like this show. If anyone is sleeping on this, they need to get on Peacock and watch Girls5eva. I mean, it's your free trial. Tina Fey is one of the executive producers, and um, it is—it's about a re—20-year-later reunion of a 90s girl group.

[8:17] Daniel Nolen: And the girl group is played by Renée Elise Goldsberry and Paula Pell, Busy Phillips, and um, Sara Bareilles.

[8:28] Ben Rimalower: Sara Bareilles, hilarious, and um, they are, you know, like in the tradition of those great uh lady TV shows we mentioned, they are such four complimentary women.

[8:42] Daniel Nolen: Yes, and people you would never—like I would never have thought to put these four women together, but no, when they are put together, it is such the perfect mix.

[8:52] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[8:53] Daniel Nolen: So, so very that. And also this show, I mean, it really is just so perfect for us, and I feel like probably so many of our listeners and friends, because it's like it really combines it like that sort of like First Wives Club.

[9:09] Ben Rimalower: Wait, I actually think I have a note about this. It's like—it's like—it's like First Wives Club.

[9:16] Daniel Nolen: It's a—well, what I wrote, which was not what I was hoping I had written, but uh, but I did say it's as funny as Bridesmaids, and it's as satisfying and fabulous as First Wives Club.

[9:28] Ben Rimalower: And I really mean that. I mean, I belly laughed.

[9:31] Daniel Nolen: Oh, same.

[9:32] Ben Rimalower: Daniel and I watched the first half of the season together, and I was actually—I mean, Daniel, obviously, if there's anyone I should be comfortable with, it's Daniel Nolen. But I literally was embarrassed because I was laughing so hard.

[9:45] Daniel Nolen: Yes, totally.

[9:50] Ben Rimalower: Well, and then I finished—we finished the last half of the series separately, and I found that like I was laughing just as—you know, it's when you watch it with someone, it's like laughter's contagious and all that. But I was laughing just as much by myself, like alone in my house.

[10:04] Daniel Nolen: Um, me too.

[10:07] Ben Rimalower: You know, and that takes a lot for me to belly laugh at a joke. So it's very—it's so good, it's so smartly written, and it feels so hip. It's like it's one of those shows you watch where you feel like, you know how like sometimes like I try to watch—and this also is—this especially happens with like network television shows, where I'll watch it and I'll feel like this could have been written in the 90s or the 70s or something.

[10:31] Daniel Nolen: Like, you know, right.

[10:32] Ben Rimalower: This show just felt so like answer to the moment we're living in right now.

[10:38] Daniel Nolen: Exactly.

[10:38] Ben Rimalower: And like you were saying about First Wives Club and uh Bridesmaids, um, it's just—it's such a satisfying premise already, especially for people like us. It's like the idea is, you know, getting the band back together, this kind of Spice Girls-ish group from uh the 90s, getting back to getting the band back together, and they're all different now, they've all gone their separate ways, trying to get famous again, but also juggling like their real life at the same time.

[11:08] Daniel Nolen: Which—and their real lives are all over the map.

[11:10] Ben Rimalower: And I just want to say for any of the old queens, you know who I'm talking about. Like if you are an Ethel Merman Gypsy fan, if you saw the original production of Follies 20 times and you heard Daniel say Spice Girls, and you were like, "That's not really my bag." I mean, I'm alive from the time of Spice Girls, but I was already such an old queen at a young age that like I only know literally one Spice Girl song, and I do not know which Spice Girl is which.

[11:35] Daniel Nolen: It doesn't matter.

[11:36] Ben Rimalower: This show takes the journey for you.

[11:39] Daniel Nolen: It sure does.

[11:40] Ben Rimalower: And like we said earlier, the mix of all the league girls is so delicious. And now that I think about it, it is kind of Golden Girls-y in that it mixes kind of real TV veterans, uh like Paula Pell and Busy Phillips with people that we know so much from Broadway, like Sara and Renée Elise Goldsberry.

[12:03] Daniel Nolen: I will say for Renée, like um, while you know, of course, she won a Tony for Hamilton, and you know, we've loved her since—I mean the first thing I saw her in was the original production of The Color Purple in like 200, you know, five or six or whatever. But, but I, you know, I know she's done a million things. Um, I also saw her in The Baker's Wife at the York Theater, um, playing the role of Patti LuPone.

[12:24] Ben Rimalower: Um, but uh, but she's been—she was a regular on The Good Wife.

[12:28] Daniel Nolen: I mean, not a regular, but you know, uh, recurring guest.

[12:31] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[12:32] Daniel Nolen: Yeah. I mean, and Sara, you know, we know her from her music, and then she was, uh, of course, hit it big with Waitress. Um, but she was the one who I just was so impressed. You know, I was—I love this journey for her. This kind of, uh, I mean, I don't know how old she is. I guess I could look it up right here.

[12:49] Ben Rimalower: But she's gotta be about my age, right?

[12:51] Daniel Nolen: Let's see.

[12:53] Daniel Nolen: She's 41.

[12:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[12:54] Daniel Nolen: Oh, she's—she's younger. I just turned 45.

[12:57] Ben Rimalower: But um, she, uh, you know, just—but she's the anchor of the show.

[13:01] Ben Rimalower: She's head like leading this real this big content, uh I mean, not really network, but Peacock comedy.

[13:07] Daniel Nolen: Um I mean, she's definitely the carry, you know.

[13:10] Ben Rimalower: She's the carry, and she she is so great.

[13:13] Daniel Nolen: She's so so so great.

[13:15] Ben Rimalower: So great.

[13:16] Daniel Nolen: Um, and I think we were we mentioned this as we were watching it, but she's just so real, you know.

[13:21] Ben Rimalower: She's real.

[13:22] Daniel Nolen: She seems like just your neighbor in Queens, who's like really talented, but like, you pointed out that like her teeth are like not actually there's even a line about it in that.

[13:32] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I have all my real teeth or original teeth.

[13:34] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, originally.

[13:35] Ben Rimalower: She has those little things that I I have one on my tooth.

[13:38] Daniel Nolen: It's like those little like white marks on the fr on your two front teeth, which it's like it's kind of endearing, you know, and you can tell you.

[13:45] Ben Rimalower: You know what's endearing is the way you say the word white.

[13:49] Daniel Nolen: Do I say it without the H white?

[13:52] Ben Rimalower: No, I say it without the H.

[13:53] Daniel Nolen: You say white You have like a big fat H.

[13:57] Ben Rimalower: Honey.

[13:59] Daniel Nolen: Um yeah, Betty White.

[14:01] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[14:02] Daniel Nolen: Um that's so funny.

[14:03] Ben Rimalower: I'll have to uh pay attention to that.

[14:06] Daniel Nolen: Um make your whites whiter.

[14:10] Ben Rimalower: Um, no, cut that.

[14:12] Daniel Nolen: So uh uh anyway, uh, but yeah, I mean, and also Paula Pell, I mean, I I of course know her work.

[14:18] Ben Rimalower: I mean, from everything from SNL to 30 Rock to all the Amy and Tina uh SNL movies, Bridesmaids.

[14:27] Daniel Nolen: She is such a force in the comedy world, but I don't think I'd ever seen her in such a big role like this.

[14:33] Ben Rimalower: And she I would say she was probably, if I had to choose, she was like my favorite.

[14:38] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I mean, she's I mean, she uh I mean I've been a little bit like in love with her since um she did the documentary now uh where they did their original cast of Company.

[14:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, it was and she's like you know, the Elaine Strange character.

[14:53] Daniel Nolen: I gotta go.

[14:54] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, God.

[14:56] Daniel Nolen: Um I knew she could sing.

[14:58] Ben Rimalower: Um what's the line from Waiting for Guffman?

[15:01] Daniel Nolen: I knew we could sing, and I knew it was funny, but it's dramatical work.

[15:05] Ben Rimalower: Um but no, but she is so I mean uh she certainly gave me the most belly laughs, I think.

[15:10] Daniel Nolen: Oh, for sure, for sure.

[15:12] Ben Rimalower: And uh yeah, I mean, she but I don't know.

[15:15] Daniel Nolen: I it's like you know, Sara Bareilles is really the um the heart.

[15:19] Ben Rimalower: And I mean, and Renée Elise Goldsberry is just like the diva.

[15:23] Daniel Nolen: I mean, she's like the Blanche, the Samantha.

[15:26] Ben Rimalower: She reminded me so much of um uh of Jenna Moroni on 30 Rock.

[15:31] Daniel Nolen: Oh, for sure, yeah.

[15:32] Ben Rimalower: But also kind of like every character Maya Rudolph ever played on SNL.

[15:38] Daniel Nolen: And I mean, she was just she's really, really so fabulous, and just um uh but you know, also like Busy Phillips.

[15:46] Ben Rimalower: I mean, it's you know, it it's like I guess in a way, she's kind of like the Rose, you know, or like the Charlotte.

[15:46] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[15:56] Ben Rimalower: Like kind of the dumb, the dumb one.

[15:56] Daniel Nolen: But you know, but it's kind of like a dumb blonde, so you know, you might even want to say that she's the Blanche or something, but I mean it's not really I you know, it's not a direct analogy.

[16:05] Daniel Nolen: Specific, you know, like Busy is like the Ditzy one, but she's also like in this sexless, like Christian marriage.

[16:12] Ben Rimalower: And yeah, and then you know, uh Paula Pell is is kind of the smart one, like the Miranda, she's also like a lesbian dentist who, you know, is like the big girl.

[16:23] Daniel Nolen: I mean, it's just like all of them can fit into these categories, but they're also like Uber specific, which makes them all the more delicious.

[16:30] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god, Paula Pell, when they're doing the rehearsal and she does it over FaceTime while she's doing performing oral surgery on a man.

[16:38] Daniel Nolen: With that, like with those goggles on.

[16:40] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god.

[16:41] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[16:42] Ben Rimalower: Like the physical comedy is next level.

[16:46] Daniel Nolen: Next level, truly.

[16:47] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I I just if anyone is not watching this, by the way, it's an eight-episode season, less than half an hour per episode.

[16:55] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god, it's like my dream.

[16:57] Ben Rimalower: It's truly the dream length for me.

[16:59] Daniel Nolen: My worst nightmare.

[17:01] Ben Rimalower: My the only thing that gives me any solace is the hope that it will just run for many, many seasons.

[17:06] Daniel Nolen: Oh, for sure.

[17:06] Ben Rimalower: And and that's the thing I loved about it too, was that like throughout the eight episodes, like not that much happens plot-wise.

[17:14] Daniel Nolen: I mean, like the band, they get back together, but then each episode is them kind of like trying out a new aspect of the band getting back together.

[17:21] Ben Rimalower: But like, they really leave it open-ended to like a lot more can happen.

[17:25] Daniel Nolen: Like, they don't really sew it up neatly enough to where you're doubtful that they'll be way more.

[17:31] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, totally.

[17:33] Daniel Nolen: Uh, I have a question.

[17:34] Ben Rimalower: What just in terms of the whole Golden Girls, Sex in the City, Designing Women, you know, those archetypes and paradigms.

[17:41] Daniel Nolen: I was thinking, like, in terms of these four women, like which do you think that you and I are?

[17:49] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I feel like.

[17:52] Daniel Nolen: Did I tell you what I thought?

[17:53] Ben Rimalower: Yes, go ahead.

[17:56] Daniel Nolen: I feel like I am like a Paula Pell Renee Elise Goldsberry and you are a Sarah Bareilles Busy Phillips.

[18:04] Ben Rimalower: I couldn't agree more.

[18:05] Daniel Nolen: I think that's totally spot on.

[18:08] Ben Rimalower: I mean it's a good thing we don't have any more friends otherwise we would have to split it up.

[18:14] Daniel Nolen: So your my drag name's gonna be my my drag name is going to be Busy Borealis and yours will be uh Paula Elise Goldsberry.

[18:23] Ben Rimalower: Paula Elise Goldsburg not Goldsberg can't just add another name to make me a Jew oh anyway uh oh I just also looking at their name I just noticed that Busy and B and uh Busy and Bareilles their names their character names are Summer and Dawn so I could also just be Summer Dawn.

[18:51] Daniel Nolen: Summer Dawn is that's my idea yours would name yours would be Gloria Wiki which Gloria Wiki sounds like like a detective or something oh my god anyway oh but we have to mention I mean we are on you know uh Broadway focused network so I mean let's talk about the just smorgasbord of guest stars from Broadway that are in this program.

[19:19] Ben Rimalower: Oh god, it's everybody.

[19:21] Daniel Nolen: Everybody.

[19:21] Ben Rimalower: I mean, Andrew Rannells plays, you know, the hilarious Christian uh hermit crab rescuer, uh Ashley Park from Mean Girls plays like the fifth girl, who we usually only see in well, we have only ever seen in flashbacks and holograms.

[19:39] Daniel Nolen: And um, well, also from Mean Girls, Erica Henningston.

[19:43] Ben Rimalower: Actually, I think almost the whole cast of Mean Girls is in it, including uh, well, Erica Henningston, I should just say, um, plays uh young Paula Pell.

[19:52] Daniel Nolen: Oh, that's right, yeah.

[19:53] Ben Rimalower: And um, but also for Mean Girls and Hello Dolly and Disaster, oh Jennifer Simard.

[19:59] Daniel Nolen: Sweet Zo Grady herself.

[20:02] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I literally sang the line from um Song and Dance.

[20:07] Daniel Nolen: Well, I'm always glad to see you, Viv.

[20:10] Ben Rimalower: When Jennifer Simard came on, I was like, I'm always glad to see you, Simard.

[20:16] Daniel Nolen: Uh, and she has a really, really big uh episode.

[20:20] Ben Rimalower: I mean, she's kind of like in that whole episode with them in the cabin.

[20:24] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I don't want to give a spoiler, but it pays off really well the very end of her episode.

[20:28] Ben Rimalower: Oh, and she gets like the little button at the end of the episode.

[20:31] Daniel Nolen: Like it's so funny.

[20:32] Ben Rimalower: Also, Broadway star Vanessa Williams in this.

[20:37] Daniel Nolen: Well, and uh, you know, Broadway writer Tina Fey uh plays Dolly Parton.

[20:43] Ben Rimalower: I mean, that episode is I was I was reading an article with the interview, uh, an interview uh article interview with the creator uh Meredith Scardino, who is kind of like uh, you know, a Tina Fey protege.

[20:56] Daniel Nolen: She writes for SNL and Colbert rapport, right?

[21:00] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[21:01] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god, did you hear what I said?

[21:03] Ben Rimalower: Colbert of.

[21:04] Daniel Nolen: I said Colbert Rapport.

[21:08] Ben Rimalower: But yeah, I was I was reading this interview with with Meredith Scardino, and she was saying that, like when as she was directing, or or I don't know if she was the director of the episode, but as she was watching Tina as Dolly playing basketball with Sara Bareilles, she was like, I can't believe there's some people are letting us do this.

[21:26] Daniel Nolen: And that's how I felt watching it.

[21:27] Ben Rimalower: Like, I can't believe we are allowed to like this is this is something we're actually being given.

[21:33] Daniel Nolen: Like it feels like such a gift, and and for me, it's so like such a specific joy that I get from Dolly Parton.

[21:41] Ben Rimalower: And then Tina Fey as Dolly Parton just doing such a unique but spot on impression.

[21:41] Daniel Nolen: Spot on.

[21:47] Ben Rimalower: I mean I mean I that will go down as one of the great is your cat blow drying its hair.

[21:53] Daniel Nolen: No, there I someone's leaf blowing outside.

[21:56] Ben Rimalower: Um so rude.

[21:57] Daniel Nolen: Um uh yeah, Tina's Dolly is like I honestly I feel like now I can do Dolly because I can do Tina doing one.

[22:05] Ben Rimalower: Well they said and they said she did it just kind of during the uh the table read for that episode.

[22:10] Daniel Nolen: She just did it just like casually, and I don't even know they had planned on her doing it, but like she hadn't even like prepared, she just had that impression like on deck, and they said it was so perfect that they wanted her to do it.

[22:24] Ben Rimalower: And my favorite line is uh she's trying to help you know Sara Bareilles write her song, this big song for the group, and she says, now we're cooking with burnt grease.

[22:38] Daniel Nolen: Like so perfect.

[22:40] Ben Rimalower: Um other like just Broadway um cameos that uh should be mentioned, uh include um Daniel Breaker, um, from Passing Strange, who plays Sara Bareilles's uh and many other shows, plays Sara Bareilles' husband, and um Will Chase.

[22:57] Daniel Nolen: Will Chase plays one of the judges on the show.

[22:59] Ben Rimalower: Oh, and well, and not broad, not Broadway yet, but one of the greatest um cameos is Bowen Yang.

[23:06] Daniel Nolen: Oh, of course, of course, of course.

[23:08] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, he plays like the um the lip sync YouTube influencer, which is just it's so perfect for him, even anyway, because he's you know, some of his lip sync videos have gone viral.

[23:18] Daniel Nolen: Um well, so Bowen Yang is just absolutely incredible.

[23:22] Ben Rimalower: Stephen Colbert also includes.

[23:24] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, Jimmy Jimmy Colbert.

[23:25] Ben Rimalower: Uh wearing that, as you said, Barbara's try sand wig is so funny.

[23:30] Daniel Nolen: And oh, and Broadway's Alicia Umfris has a very special cameo.

[23:34] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, yeah.

[23:34] Daniel Nolen: I mean, and she and they really do not waste her time or talent because they let her sing a really, really yummy belt note.

[23:42] Ben Rimalower: I love that like Alicia Umfris is such an incredible, incredible singer with such an enormous gift that literally, like on TV, on like a high budget, like Peacock, Tina Fey, all-star, big rollout series when they're like, we need somebody to come on.

[24:02] Daniel Nolen: Literally, the casting description was we need a woman with just the best voice ever.

[24:07] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:07] Daniel Nolen: And they were like, Umphress type.

[24:10] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:10] Daniel Nolen: I mean, props, props, props, props.

[24:13] Ben Rimalower: Well, and and I never did you ever see Mean Girls on Broadway?

[24:17] Daniel Nolen: I didn't.

[24:17] Ben Rimalower: No, they wouldn't.

[24:18] Daniel Nolen: I kept telling them that you and I wanted to come as major um zeitgeist uh, you know, uh forces, uh influencers, and they they would not hook me up with the press tickets.

[24:31] Ben Rimalower: Well, maybe this will be the episode that gets us on the list.

[24:34] Daniel Nolen: Didn't it close?

[24:36] Ben Rimalower: Oh, did it?

[24:37] Daniel Nolen: Oh, oops, sorry.

[24:38] Ben Rimalower: R.A.P.

[24:39] Daniel Nolen: Well, but I, you know, I mean, I obviously Tina is like a like one of the biggest people in show business.

[24:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[24:47] Daniel Nolen: Um, watching this, I was like, oh, like, you know, the fact that there are so many Mean Girls alum in it, and it's just so Broadway heavy.

[24:57] Ben Rimalower: Um, I don't know.

[24:59] Daniel Nolen: I it just made me excited to see what Tina does on Broadway next.

[25:02] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, I mean, it also is just like, I mean, going back to the idea of like them saying, I can't believe we get to do this, and you feeling like I can't believe we get to watch it.

[25:09] Daniel Nolen: It really just like is one of those, it reminds me of the way I felt when I first saw The First Wives Club.

[25:15] Ben Rimalower: When I was like, this is like mainstream entertainment that was made for me.

[25:21] Daniel Nolen: And and yet there are still so many, uh, I mean, maybe this is changing a bit, but I still feel like people are shocked whenever these type of projects, you know, are so successful.

[25:31] Ben Rimalower: Because most mainstream entertainment is not this, you know.

[25:34] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[25:35] Ben Rimalower: And it's like, you know, I feel like America is like monster trucks, you know?

[25:39] Daniel Nolen: And like, um, and but seeing something like this, you're like, no, you guys, like Obama's president, everything's okay.

[25:46] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, everyone's gay, Kimmy.

[25:47] Ben Rimalower: It's the 90s.

[25:48] Daniel Nolen: Exactly.

[25:49] Ben Rimalower: Um, who else?

[25:50] Daniel Nolen: Are there any other Broadway greats we're missing?

[25:53] Ben Rimalower: Um, here I'll look at it.

[25:54] Daniel Nolen: I mean, of course, you know, Sara Bareilles and Renée Elise Goldsberry.

[25:58] Ben Rimalower: This makes me also want to see Waitress.

[26:00] Daniel Nolen: Because I think isn't Sarah going back into Waitress when it reopens?

[26:04] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, Waitress actually closed, but it's gonna open again with Sara Bareilles. Um, but yeah, I loved Waitress. I saw the original cast, I really loved it. Um, but I would love to go back and see Sarah. Um, yeah, I ain't never seen it. Especially after this. Um, yeah, we should go. That'll be enjoyable. I've actually, I'm surprised I haven't pursued listening to the recording more because I really loved Waitress. And I not just loved her, but she had, there was the supporting cast was fantastic. Um, what's her name? Uh, Kimiko Glenn.

[26:43] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, Set all.

[26:45] Ben Rimalower: Yes, and um, uh, what's his name? Uh, some man.

[26:52] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, Fitz, Fitz, Fitz Fitzgerald.

[26:55] Ben Rimalower: Christopher Fitzgerald, is that it?

[26:59] Daniel Nolen: Oh, maybe.

[27:00] Ben Rimalower: I am DB Waitress. Where's our intern? God damn it.

[27:04] Daniel Nolen: God damn it.

[27:05] Ben Rimalower: Well, he got a job. Jason Gaite, they're all scammed. The thing is, yeah, I reach out to all these um out of work Broadway actors, and I'm like, you guys want to be our intern? And they're like, sorry, hun, I just got back to you two weeks later. I'm like on set in Hollywood.

[27:21] Daniel Nolen: Fuck them.

[27:22] Ben Rimalower: They need to be our intern. How am I supposed to be recording the podcast and looking up who was in Waitress? Christopher Fitzgerald, yes, that's the person.

[27:32] Daniel Nolen: Okay, cool.

[27:33] Ben Rimalower: Uh, but they've had quite a um starry line of replacement casts. So I don't know who's gonna be in the show with um Sara Bareilles, but it surely will be fabulous people.

[27:46] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, it might even be Gavin Creel because I think that they um, they did it together in London.

[27:53] Ben Rimalower: Um, and uh, I think that they uh hit it off really well. You know, I'm not much for standing Broadway uh male talent.

[28:03] Daniel Nolen: True that.

[28:03] Ben Rimalower: But I do love me some Gavin Creel.

[28:07] Daniel Nolen: You sure do. You will put that um, uh, Gavin Creel, what is it? Uh, you know, before the not before the parade passes by. Put on your Sunday clothes. You will put that in any old playlist.

[28:20] Ben Rimalower: It'll be like Joni Mitchell, Sarah McLachlan, and Gavin Creel.

[28:25] Daniel Nolen: You are so right. I will put those Sunday clothes on in any context because uh, you know, to me, it fits in with those songs that bring me uh not only joy, but like it's I put it in a lot of my morning get you know, marching around the breakfast table playlist because it really just gears me up to go out and face the world.

[28:46] Ben Rimalower: Put on my jewels.

[28:49] Daniel Nolen: Yes, thank you. Get the hair out of the drawer, Countess Aurelia. Um, speaking of Gavin, though, did you ever get into his solo work?

[28:58] Ben Rimalower: You know, the only uh exposure I have to it was on the beach with you and our friend Jason.

[29:05] Daniel Nolen: I love that.

[29:05] Ben Rimalower: That first album, Good Time Nation, one word is fucking amazing. I remember really loving it, and Gavin actually has a voice that lends itself well to that kind of um totally I don't even know what you'd call it, but I think of like, you know, Panic! at the Disco or those type of bands where or the Killers with Brandon Flowers.

[29:25] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, those bands that have really crazy good voices that are just like good voices anyway and could be on Broadway.

[29:34] Ben Rimalower: I saw an amazing concert. Uh, did you ever see the Zipper Theater? Did that close before you moved to the city?

[29:40] Daniel Nolen: No, I that I mean maybe it I don't know if it was open or not, but I have not heard of it.

[29:40] Ben Rimalower: It was a very cool space in like uh an industrial space in like the West 30s.

[29:49] Daniel Nolen: Um, Mannequin Factory.

[29:51] Ben Rimalower: Basically, I mean, it was like all the seats were like airplane seats or bus seats or like, you know, school bus seats or whatever. Uh, it was very, very um eclectic. But there was great stuff there, including the big hit revival of Jacques Brel's Alive and Well Living in Paris, starring Gay Marshall.

[30:09] Daniel Nolen: And um, but I saw Gavin Creel one night do a um a live concert performance of the Good Time Nation album that was thrilling.

[30:18] Ben Rimalower: Oh wow.

[30:19] Daniel Nolen: But I actually don't know his second album. I need to I think I added it on my Spotify, but I have not really listened to it. Maybe I'll listen to him on one of my walks coming up.

[30:29] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[30:29] Daniel Nolen: It's actually great walk music.

[30:31] Ben Rimalower: I love good walk music.

[30:33] Daniel Nolen: That's all I'm into right now.

[30:34] Ben Rimalower: That's all I'm into. I actually made uh, Everything Always Goes Back to Bette Midler with me, but I actually made this morning you would have loved it. I made three separate Bette Midler playlists for myself.

[30:46] Daniel Nolen: Uh, one is called Bet with a Beat, and that's my walking music.

[30:51] Ben Rimalower: Because so much of her music, I mean, think like Night in Black Leather, Big Noise from Winnetka, uh, Strangers in the Night, like that type of like music that's perfect for walking.

[31:03] Daniel Nolen: Um, and then so Bet with a Beat is the first one, and then I made the second, which is Bet with a Ballad.

[31:08] Ben Rimalower: And that's the music that I walked to like at sunset, you know, when I'm trying to come down.

[31:12] Daniel Nolen: Time of day.

[31:13] Ben Rimalower: Um then, and then my third playlist is Bet with a Breeze.

[31:19] Daniel Nolen: And that's the playlist that I listen to.

[31:21] Ben Rimalower: It's like it's upbeat and up tempo, but it's not like the, you know, Bette's quote famous club hits.

[31:28] Daniel Nolen: Like what song would be an example of that?

[31:31] Ben Rimalower: Um, well, I'm glad you asked. Um, Bet with a Breeze, big uh, you know, like Chapel of Love, Leader of the Pack, Delta Dawn.

[31:38] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[31:38] Ben Rimalower: Say goodbye to Hollywood, Paradise.

[31:41] Daniel Nolen: Um, you're talking my language.

[31:43] Ben Rimalower: Ukulele Lady, Mr. Sandman. I mean, it's like still like uh joyful and kind of upbeat, but it's not, it's a little more chill and beachy.

[31:53] Daniel Nolen: Love it.

[31:54] Ben Rimalower: Love it. Anyway, that's that's that's my that was my project today. But I did the homework for it yesterday on my walk because I listened to like five Bette Midler albums in a row.

[32:03] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, I've been struggling because I'm like, my walk music has really been the do I've been doing the work because as many of our listeners I'm sure know.

[32:12] Ben Rimalower: We are in the midst of the second in our Roses and Daffodils series. Currently working after the success of the Gypsy Roses and Daffodils last month.

[32:21] Daniel Nolen: We're working on the Follies one, which is an extensive project where with the weekly polls and all the factors going into it.

[32:28] Ben Rimalower: So I've been really busy listening to all the versions of Follies.

[32:31] Daniel Nolen: But when I want to break from that, I've been listening to a lot of Sarah Vaughan.

[32:36] Ben Rimalower: Um, but today I actually made myself a new playlist, which is um, I don't know, are you familiar with the singer-songwriter Harry Chapin?

[32:45] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[32:46] Ben Rimalower: I'm like such a huge Harry Chapin fan, and everyone will know Harry Chapin's song Cats in the Cradle. Uh, or they might know his song Taxi, but a lot of his stuff is lesser well known, less well known.

[32:56] Daniel Nolen: And um, uh, but I first fell in love with Harry Chapin, other than Cats in the Cradle when I was in high school, and the school, I wasn't in it, but the school did a um a production of the Harry Chapin musical review, Lies and Legends.

[33:09] Daniel Nolen: Mm-hmm.

[33:10] Ben Rimalower: Um starring uh my best friend Deborah and Michael Weiner, who would go on to write the Broadway musical First Date.

[33:19] Daniel Nolen: Um but uh anyway, and Michael is an incredible performer and is the most beautiful, powerful, thrilling voice.

[33:26] Ben Rimalower: Anyway, they were so great. All the whole cast is great.

[33:28] Daniel Nolen: And um, I was obsessed with it ever since.

[33:31] Ben Rimalower: But so today I made my playlist of the songs from Lies and Legends in order, but the Harry Chapin recordings.

[33:39] Daniel Nolen: And I don't know, I really love it. I kind of like want to like direct a revival of Lies and Legends in New York, you know.

[33:45] Daniel Nolen: Well, I'll have to look into that.

[33:46] Ben Rimalower: I don't know it at all.

[33:47] Daniel Nolen: Maybe I would do it like at 54 Below or something, you know.

[33:51] Ben Rimalower: That's not fun.

[33:52] Daniel Nolen: Or Joe's Pub.

[33:53] Ben Rimalower: Um, anyway. Um, I'm glad you brought up our Follies playlist because I have a question for you.

[33:59] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[33:59] Ben Rimalower: If you had to cast the four leads of Girls5eva in a production of Follies, who would they be?

[34:03] Daniel Nolen: I love you.

[34:04] Ben Rimalower: I said Girls5eva, Girls5eva, uh in a production of Follies, who would they be?

[34:12] Daniel Nolen: That's an incredibly brilliant question.

[34:15] Ben Rimalower: Um, I would be happy to answer it.

[34:19] Daniel Nolen: And um, I would cast Renée as Phyllis.

[34:29] Ben Rimalower: Of course.

[34:31] Daniel Nolen: And I would cast um, I mean, I really want to cast Sarah as Sally, but I kind of feel like Girls5eva style, like really Busy is Sally.

[34:49] Ben Rimalower: And uh, I mean if Paula Pell isn't calling out to be Hattie, I don't know who it means.

[35:00] Daniel Nolen: I mean a Hattie or Hattie was never to be had.

[35:04] Ben Rimalower: True to that, uh, true, true hat.

[35:07] Daniel Nolen: Um, and uh, I guess Sarah could be Carlotta.

[35:07] Ben Rimalower: Um, yeah.

[35:13] Daniel Nolen: Um, no, Sarah should be Stella because no, Sarah could be Carlotta. Sarah should be Stella because Vanessa Williams should be Carlotta.

[35:21] Ben Rimalower: Oh god, yes, god yes.

[35:22] Daniel Nolen: Stella, uh, Vanessa Williams should definitely be Carlotta, and then wait, which one's Stella? Who's that woman?

[35:29] Ben Rimalower: Oh, of course, of course. I always get that mixed up with Hattie.

[35:32] Daniel Nolen: Uh, yeah, and then you know, by the way, Vanessa Williams was at one point supposed to play Phyllis.

[35:41] Ben Rimalower: I mean, that would be good too.

[35:42] Daniel Nolen: I know.

[35:43] Ben Rimalower: Um, but I mean, for this, for our purposes, Renée is such a good Phyllis.

[35:43] Daniel Nolen: Such a good Phyllis.

[35:49] Ben Rimalower: Um, and then, okay, then uh, I guess out of, let's see, out of Andrew Rannells and Daniel Breaker, which ones would you assign to be uh Buddy and which one would be Ben?

[36:03] Daniel Nolen: I think um Andrew Rannells would be Buddy and Daniel Breaker would be Ben, but it's not really good casting.

[36:11] Ben Rimalower: No, but I mean you have yeah, I mean or Stephen Colbert could be one of them.

[36:16] Daniel Nolen: By the way, the twink that plays Stephen Colbert's butler.

[36:20] Ben Rimalower: Uh-huh.

[36:20] Daniel Nolen: You thought it was Neil Patrick Harris?

[36:22] Ben Rimalower: I thought Neil Patrick Harris was like wearing prosthetics.

[36:26] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, you were so convinced that that was Neil Patrick Harris with like uh D-aging CGI.

[36:33] Ben Rimalower: He looks like a younger and he has the same voice as him.

[36:37] Daniel Nolen: Um by the way, go ahead, Sarah.

[36:40] Ben Rimalower: Well, it's also we have to mention another Broadway great uh playing their uh old manager Larry. You mentioned he is Jonathan Hadari.

[36:50] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, Hadari from the from the Tyne Gypsy, you said.

[36:53] Ben Rimalower: Yes, he was Herbie in the Tyne Daly Gypsy, uh, who we talked about at length in the um Roses and Daffodils podcast episode.

[37:01] Daniel Nolen: Uh because I said that he was the gay musical theater Herbie.

[37:04] Ben Rimalower: Jonathan Hadari, I saw when he replaced Nathan Lane opposite Faith Prince in Guys and Dolls.

[37:11] Daniel Nolen: And Jonathan Hadari um starred as Roy Cohn in the first National Tour of Angels in America.

[37:17] Ben Rimalower: Perfect.

[37:18] Daniel Nolen: And Jonathan Hadari replaced Harvey Fierstein in the original production of Torch Song Trilogy.

[37:24] Ben Rimalower: Hmm.

[37:25] Daniel Nolen: Interesting.

[37:25] Ben Rimalower: And he's done a million things. I mean, he's such such a great talent.

[37:29] Daniel Nolen: Is he gay in real life or no?

[37:30] Ben Rimalower: I don't know. I mean, I assume he certainly seems very gay.

[37:34] Daniel Nolen: Um he uh, he's done a lot of stuff, but he's he's a great talent and he's fabulous in this.

[37:41] Ben Rimalower: He was also, he was very memorable on uh The Good Wife and on The Good Fight.

[37:47] Daniel Nolen: You know, I was about to go say I I was about to say I should go re-watch The Good Wife, but one, I would never do that because that's like a thousand hours.

[37:55] Ben Rimalower: That's a lot for you.

[37:56] Daniel Nolen: But uh I actually don't even think I ever finished it. I think I like, you know, stopped watching one mid-season and never got back on the train, but now I don't even know where I was.

[38:05] Ben Rimalower: So forget it.

[38:07] Daniel Nolen: Just skip it.

[38:07] Ben Rimalower: I I don't love I'm like, I did watch the whole thing because I'm a completist in a lot of ways. But The Good Wife to me is like a solid B.

[38:16] Daniel Nolen: It yeah, it all yeah, it definitely is The Good Fight is a solid A.

[38:21] Ben Rimalower: A plus plus plus.

[38:22] Daniel Nolen: And is it like our is it an hour procedural like The Good Wife, or is it?

[38:27] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, it's just way the fuck better.

[38:29] Daniel Nolen: I mean, for starters, the stars, instead of being whatever the fuck that bitch's name is, the stars are Christine Baranski and Audra McDonald.

[38:39] Ben Rimalower: Christine Baranski, oh, fabulous.

[38:41] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I knew that. For some reason, I was thinking Christine Ebersole, because of our dinner conversation we had about her a few nights ago.

[38:46] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, no, she's not involved.

[38:49] Daniel Nolen: But I mean, Christine Baranski, Christine Baranski, Christine Baranski till the cows come home.

[38:49] Ben Rimalower: Till the cows come home.

[38:56] Daniel Nolen: Love her.

[38:57] Ben Rimalower: Love Audra.

[38:58] Daniel Nolen: Another Taurus.

[39:00] Ben Rimalower: Still in test. I was very, very happy to know that.

[39:04] Ben Rimalower: So, okay. Well, what else do we? Oh, there's just some little things I wrote down that I just love so much. Just lines. Well, I love the kind of, I don't know, the recurring gimmick of like um when they were talking when she said I'm promoting this product, that's a room temperature refrigerator called a habit. Uh-huh. And then later I uh it was the um like the aquarium, the the the in what do you call it, the ecological um environment for crabs to live in is a crab hat. Oh, that's funny. Um I I loved when um was it Renee who says a lie is just the truth on a deadline. I mean, I related to that character so much. Like with like her debts and everything. I was like, oh my god, excuse me. Um I loved the little boy.

Uh what was it uh was it um in her in her like fantasy when he's like mom, no, sorry, it was oh, the whole thing about only children. Oh, yeah, like lonely, lonely boy or whatever. Lonely New York lonely boy. Yeah. Uh but the thing where he's like, mommy for dessert, can we have more soup? She takes him to the ice cream truck and he wants Earl Gray from Mr. Softy. Oh my god. It was again, that's just it's like it's so specific and smart. So smarty. It's so smart. It's just like, and then they go to the store. Uh what is it? It's like fedoras and fountain pens or whatever. That's that's where her son wants to go is fedors and fountain pens. Um my god. Oh, the song the song lyrics are also really good.

Oh, of course. I mean, that song, the theme song has been stuck in my head all week. But all the like I'm that's good walking music. That's what I should listen to. All the songs are so catchy. What's the lyric? Um we're gonna do it our way, like Sinatra or Burger King. Burger King, yeah, yeah. But also just in the most with the most beautiful, like Sara Bareilles piano chords and progressions. Oh my god. But also like the journey of them like starting off like not knowing how to write songs because well, it's so hilarious that all their songs are so misogynist, like from their original career in the 90s. Right, right. And then they have to like learn how to like you know. It's I mean, that's the thing.

It's like the show actually has a really great message, but it goes down like candy. Like candy. I mean, it goes down like that, like that cabernet that they get from the soda fountain. I mean, it's just smooth baby. Uh and also I I have to say, it I mean, it starts out so strong, and I was immediately drawn in, but it really just gets better as you watch it. Like it just gets better and better. Um, and I was loving it even more by the end. Me too. I'm I'm really sad that it's over. Like, I mean, not over over, but like I like I I started watching um Hacks last night. Me too, me too. Which is obviously everything. Everything. But like um I was so angry because I'm like, you know, they're like making me wait and not just giving you the whole series at once.

But in a way, I do appreciate it because I feel like Hacks is now gonna be part of my life for a little while. Whereas like Girls5eva, I just kind of like snorted and like now I'm just like left bereft. Yeah, yep. Totally. Now you're crashing. I also watched Hacks last night, and I I've been watching, I've actually been watching a lot more TV lately because I I haven't been for a while. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. And it's been really exciting because there's so many great shows that have recently come out. Yeah. But they're all um starring Jean Smart. Starring Jean Smart. Uh but you know, Mayor of Easttown, we talked about is the first one I started. And I've kind of and of course I'm catching up on Handmaid's Tale the the recent season.

So fucking good. So good. Oh my god, last episode. But um I I kind of enjoy the the having something to look forward to each week, you know. It's and I'm glad it's just not Drag Race, you know. It's like an actual like story. I'm actually looking forward to seeing like what Kate Winslet gets up to next week. And um it's kind of nice being able to like enjoy it uh weekly and having meeting these little meetings with your friends to look forward to and not just having to like force yourself to take it all at once, you know. Yeah, I know. I just I don't like them being in charge of how much I get. Right, right. It's yeah. Um but yeah, I I've also been watching I watched Hacks last night, which I mean is just I mean, we could do a whole whole nother episode about that, but also a show that I'm just like how what did we do to deserve this gift?

Like, just such a show that I never thought I would get, but like the Joan Rivers of it all, like the totally the Jean Smart of it all. Uh it's just so good. Speaking of Designing Women, I mean, obviously, I have loved Jean Smart season. Oh, yeah. I guess that's a good tie-in, yeah. But to be honest, like back in the day, I loved her, but if I had to choose, she was probably last on my list. Yeah, I mean, she's probably the last on many people's list. I mean, obviously, we're talking about the real Designing Women. Like, once they had like fucking like Judith Ivy, it's a different story, you know. But like, you know, I I don't watch those seasons anyway. But um, but like over the last few years, I mean when Jean Smart was on Fargo, anyone who hasn't seen that season, yes, do y'all self a favor.

That's playing like like the Tony Soprano of this uh midwestern crime family, just and then the final scene, she like gets stabbed in a hotel parking lot. Spoiler alert. Um god, oh god, she's so good. So good. I mean, and like I remember people being all excited about her because um she played uh like the Katie Finnoran part in Promises Promises, if you will, you know, like the drunk lady with one scene. I forget who played it in the original production. Um, but she uh she did that, I guess, in the like Los Angeles reprise production. And I think maybe she played Joanne in Company there, or no, it wasn't her, it wasn't her, but like they she was discussed as a possibility, and like I want to go down that road, like you know, basically what I'm saying is I want Patty to abandon Company so she can star in the West End revival of Hello Dolly.

Yeah, and I want Jean Smart to play Joanne on Broadway. Well, I'm so excited to see what's I mean, obviously, Jean is like a veteran, and she, I mean, I I was also reading this thing with her, and she I love what she says when asked about this real moment she's having, because she was like, I've always been a late bloomer. So, you know, she's done the work. I mean, it's very uh true to her character in in uh what's it called? Hustlers, Hacks. Um you know, she's like uh a veteran. A show she's done TV for a long time. She's done a ton of movies. I mean, the first thing I ever saw her in I think was Homeward Bound. Uh I don't even know what that is. It's it's the one that starred Sally Field as the cat and Michael J. Fox.

You are not helping me to know what that is. It's this movie about these dogs getting lost, these two dogs and a cat getting lost, and they have to find their way home to their families. Wait, so is I don't is it a cartoon? No, it's like real animals being filmed, you know, in precarious situations, one of whom is voiced by Michael J. Fox. The cat is voiced by Sally Field, and I forget who voices the dog Shadow. Um, but it's so good. I mean, it's one of those movies that will make you cry as a kid because as the dog comes limping over the hill in the final scene. But yeah, Jean Smart plays like a veterinarian or like a wildlife conservationist or something. I just remember she helps find the animals, or she helps rescue them.

Um, and then of course, uh that laugh, that ha! laugh that she does so well in Hacks. I um immediately gave me this sense memory to watching the Brady Bunch as a kid and her playing that like uh boozy neighbor. Yes, I forgot about that. Laid out on is she married to like Michael McKeon or something? And like Cindy comes over and uh she's laying on the couch with the eye mask and the Bloody Mary, and she's like Yes, so how's your daddy? Oh my god. And she's like, and then he can't understand Cindy because of her lisp. And he's like, I'm sorry, sweetie, I just can't, and she's like, she wants the Brady's male, Larry. Great line. Anyway, yeah, she's she's a legend, and I'm oh god, Hacks. I just I'm just foaming at the mouth for the next episode.

Okay, here's a Dolly concert kill for you. Oh, thank God. Jean Smart. Tina Fey, Dolly Parton. Oh god. Uh but I can't cheat and get Tina as Dolly, I guess. Um you could do that. I mean, I could get Tina as Dolly as Dolly. You are the producer and director and uh uh Grim Reaper. You know, what I think I want is um, I mean, I have I have Dolly as Dolly is a no-brainer. And then I want I would love like an evening with Jean Smart or like Jean Smart, or heck, not even an evening with give me Jean Smart at Madison Square Garden. Give me Jean Smart doing like a stadium tour. I'm here for it. Um then Tina, you know, can quote produce. What about you? Oh god, I mean, yeah, I mean, I gotta go Dolly as Dolly, you know.

Yeah. I mean, even if you were like, even if you were like Ben, I'm from the future, Dolly is bad in Dolly. I still want to I still want to see for myself. You gotta get the merch at least. Yeah, and so then I would say, uh, I want like, I want like Jean Smart's like one woman Broadway, like tour de force. Like Jean Smart's at Liberty. Exactly. Uh get smart. Yeah. Um and uh I'll send Tina Fey to the big 30 Rock in the Sky. Yes, yes. That's that's that's what we should say more often is send them to the big 30 Rock in the sky. I gotta say, I like Girls5eva even more than 30 Rock or Kimmy Schmidt. Me too. And you know, I was I go through phases with 30 Rock. Sometimes I'm in the mood, sometimes I'm not.

Very true. 30 Rock is a show, and Kimmy Schmidt a little bit too, but especially 30 Rock, that like you have to be in the mood. It can be the best show in the world, but you have to be in that zone. I can't just like in the middle of my normal life just drop everything and watch 30 Rock. Right. Well, and that's kind of what I tried to do last night because I was still like riding the high from Girls5eva, so I was like, ooh, I'll go back and I'll watch some 30 Rock. And I was just like not here for it. I was like not into it. Yeah, I don't know. It's just 30 Rock, you kind of have like I think you said this before, you kind of have to be in that world for a while in order to like fully appreciate the It Listen, you have to be there in order to want to go to there.

Want to go to there, exactly. And uh so yeah, Girls5eva goes down a little smoother. And I also I love Kimmy more than 30 Rock as well. Um wait, I didn't say I loved it more than 30 Rock. No, I I'm saying I love it. I love Kimmy more than 30 Rock, just like I love Girls5eva more than 30 Rock. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. And because I think uh I don't know why I was like afraid that like Alec Baldwin was gonna be listening and be like, hey I mean we know Elaine Stritch is listening, so I I understand. Um my god. Yeah, I don't know. It's just I don't know if it's kind of that these shows they're just people are nicer to each other, maybe, or they're friends. I mean, I feel like in 30 Rock, like no one really likes each other, everyone's mean to each other, which is hilarious.

But um, like Girls5eva is such like a buddy comedy, you know. Well, it's true. 30 Rock kind of doesn't have an emotional center. Yeah, it's kind of cynical. Like, I mean, it's yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like I guess it's about Liz Lemon, but like it's Liz Lemon is still the butt of the joke in this certain way. Right. Um and um, you know, that there's there's more heart to these other shows. Yeah, and I mean, yeah, like you have the Kimmy who's just like you know, radiates joy and then Kimmy's the butt of the joke, but exactly. She radiates joy, so you s and and and and her joy is infectious. I mean, Kimmy's sort of like despite what sh whatever travails come her way, there's this sort of sense of Kimmy like succeeding against all odds.

[52:06] Ben Rimalower: Right.

[52:07] Daniel Nolen: What uh other shows are you watching right now?

[52:10] Ben Rimalower: Well, of course, uh Mare of East Town, uh featuring Gene Smart.

[52:15] Daniel Nolen: Hacks featuring Gene Smart starring Gene Smart.

[52:18] Ben Rimalower: Yes, yes.

[52:19] Daniel Nolen: Um what else did I what else had I been watching?

[52:24] Ben Rimalower: Uh is that it?

[52:25] Daniel Nolen: I mean, I just finished Oh Handmaid's Tale.

[52:27] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[52:28] Daniel Nolen: Are you watching that?

[52:29] Ben Rimalower: Of course.

[52:30] Daniel Nolen: Of course.

[52:30] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I I started watching on the plane on my on the plane ride home from my recent trip.

[52:36] Daniel Nolen: And it's you had like you had never watched before?

[52:38] Ben Rimalower: Oh no, no. I I had watched, but I was watching the new season.

[52:41] Daniel Nolen: Gotcha.

[52:41] Ben Rimalower: So I started season four on like plane ride.

[52:44] Daniel Nolen: And it kind of does this thing which it does has done before. Like the first two episodes I thought were like I was kind of like, uh, I don't know if I'm gonna like the season.

[52:53] Ben Rimalower: But then it found its footing and it kind of really, you know, gives gives you what you want, which is like the and out of it all.

[53:00] Daniel Nolen: And my experience of Handmaid's Tale is so not um that like uh artistic. Like I watch Handmaid's Tale like my family are refugees and I'm getting a call from them.

[53:15] Ben Rimalower: Everybody be quiet.

[53:16] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, just on the edge of your seat.

[53:18] Ben Rimalower: I I I am not I never watch Handmaid's Tale and think about the actors or the writing or whether or not I like the choices.

[53:26] Daniel Nolen: I'm like, you don't like it?

[53:28] Ben Rimalower: I don't like this country being overrun by fucking Gilead. I'm just trying to get to the next page.

[53:35] Daniel Nolen: Right, right.

[53:37] Ben Rimalower: No, I get it. I mean it it in this season, especially, it's oh god, it's it's bleak.

[53:41] Daniel Nolen: But um, in some ways it's more bleak, but in other ways it's less bleak, I feel.

[53:47] Ben Rimalower: Well, it's less bleak because she's out of Gilead, spoiler alert.

[53:50] Daniel Nolen: But um, it's uh I mean just some of those scene, like those torture scenes and like oh god.

[53:57] Ben Rimalower: I'm like, I don't care. I don't care how many like old school, like sunny pop songs you overlay against these scenes of horrific torture, like it's still horrifying.

[54:07] Daniel Nolen: I don't know, like I I mean I was certainly horrified, but the the torture wasn't graphic in a way where like I had to like look away.

[54:15] Ben Rimalower: True.

[54:15] Daniel Nolen: I guess I guess I was they don't they don't like show you her fingernails being ripped off or anything.

[54:20] Ben Rimalower: Oh god, but that scene where you see like it's about to happen, oh god, stomach churning.

[54:25] Daniel Nolen: Right up right up to the edge, but but then you you don't have to go there.

[54:29] Ben Rimalower: Exactly. Here's what I was thinking last night as I watched the latest episode, which is like just super good and and really harrowing, and and it leaves you really hanging.

[54:38] Daniel Nolen: Uh I think this, okay, they should do this season, and then I think the next season, season five, should be the final season.

[54:47] Ben Rimalower: And I mean, it's just listen, how how much longer can we go?

[54:52] Daniel Nolen: I mean, she's like, As long as they're willing to, I will watch.

[54:56] Ben Rimalower: We need to we need to be smart and be Arthur about this. Like, get out while the gitten's good, you know.

[55:02] Daniel Nolen: No, I no, uh-uh, not at all. I will be there in the golden palace.

[55:09] Ben Rimalower: The Golden Gilead Palace.

[55:11] Daniel Nolen: Yes.

[55:12] Ben Rimalower: Um, but here's I'm this is what I want. If I was a writer on the show, I would say the final episode of the whole series needs to be the final standoff between June and Aunt Lydia.

[55:23] Daniel Nolen: And June, of course, needs to prevail.

[55:26] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I kind of feel like we got that this season.

[55:28] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, but but June was still like a prisoner.

[55:31] Ben Rimalower: You know, she didn't get to give Lydia what was coming to her.

[55:34] Daniel Nolen: She she had a moment though.

[55:35] Ben Rimalower: She did pretty exciting.

[55:37] Daniel Nolen: But she decided to take the high road and and not hurt her, or you know, and and to leave with the other girls.

[55:42] Ben Rimalower: I don't know, you're probably not gonna like this, but like I could be happy if Aunt Lydia like died.

[55:48] Daniel Nolen: Oh, are you serious?

[55:50] Ben Rimalower: Yeah.

[55:50] Daniel Nolen: Oh my god.

[55:51] Ben Rimalower: Ann Dowd, like her scenes are my favorite.

[55:54] Daniel Nolen: No, of course I'm all about Ann Dowd, but like I the thing about Ann Dowd.

[55:59] Ben Rimalower: You have to have her.

[55:59] Daniel Nolen: You have to have that that battle, you have to have that pull coming from the other side, or else half of what June's fighting against isn't exciting.

[56:06] Ben Rimalower: Cause I don't care about those men in that room.

[56:08] Daniel Nolen: I do.

[56:09] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god, so much.

[56:11] Daniel Nolen: I Aunt Lydia is like is like the maleficent, you know, she's like um the wicked witch.

[56:16] Ben Rimalower: Maleficent was glamorous.

[56:19] Daniel Nolen: Well, I mean, okay, maybe she's the Ursula.

[56:21] Ben Rimalower: I mean, you know, uh, but we need that wicked witch character in order that balances out June because you know, there's and it's so complicated with the other men because June's kind of friendly with them.

[56:32] Daniel Nolen: I like how this episode's just turned into us talking about TV.

[56:35] Ben Rimalower: Um but I I want the final standoff to be it was it's like a June and Aunt Lydia moment, and that's how the series ends.

[56:44] Daniel Nolen: I think the other thing is besides my besides my personal feelings, I kind of keep thinking that Aunt Lydia is gonna like have a chicken like a consciousness awakening.

[56:54] Ben Rimalower: I keep thinking that too, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

[56:59] Daniel Nolen: Because unlike the men, um you really understand the psychology and like the cycle of abuse with Aunt Lydia.

[57:10] Ben Rimalower: And like, and you see her again and again in new and different ways being um disappointed by and having to maneuver within the system of the men.

[57:23] Daniel Nolen: I mean, in a way, Aunt Lydia is a great parallel to um, you know, Mrs. Waterford.

[57:29] Ben Rimalower: What's her name?

[57:31] Daniel Nolen: Uh uh yeah, um Serena.

[57:36] Ben Rimalower: Serena, Serena, Serena, what's her, what's her Serena Joy, Serena Joy.

[57:40] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, because they are both they're both women who therefore are disempowered by the system.

[57:46] Ben Rimalower: And they both um uh they have more power than the handmaids have, but you know, not as much as the men.

[57:55] Daniel Nolen: And you see the men letting them down in disappointment.

[57:57] Ben Rimalower: It's like they bought in to a certain philosophy of Gilead, and then Gilead doesn't live up to that in the ways that they expected it to.

[58:07] Daniel Nolen: And you see how they deal with that, and they're they're both, you know, finagling it for themselves and you know, for what they believe in.

[58:17] Ben Rimalower: But but I don't know, they both have had to finagle several times and sort of you know recalibrate.

[58:25] Daniel Nolen: And I I certainly with Serena, like, you know, her path is very much um parted with the Gilead philosophy.

[58:36] Ben Rimalower: I love I love her arc. I think she's yeah, she's such a fascinating character.

[58:40] Daniel Nolen: And I love that actress.

[58:41] Ben Rimalower: Totally.

[58:42] Daniel Nolen: But I think don't sleep on Lydia's arc because here's another way it could go is the final confrontation is like June actually has the opportunity it's June, June versus Lydia.

[58:42] Ben Rimalower: June actually has the opportunity to kill Lydia, but she shows mercy on her.

[58:58] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[58:58] Ben Rimalower: But it's like Gilead's fallen, so like Lydia's actually just gonna be like uh prosecuted or whatever, but June shows mercy on her and actually like testifies on her behalf or something in order to show mercy and grace.

[59:11] Daniel Nolen: Or physical mercy, like maybe has the opportunity to kill her and doesn't.

[59:15] Ben Rimalower: I mean, I I definitely think that's very possible because I feel like June more than any other character, June understands um Lydia.

[59:25] Daniel Nolen: Yes, and even this in this season, especially, we're seeing kind of the the turning of June from just like trying to do the right thing to like actually being a little bit of a vigilante and like actually uh being pro-violence instead of just pro-yeah life, for lack of a better term.

[59:42] Ben Rimalower: Yeah, but I mean, like when she did have the standoff with Lydia, even though she was a prisoner, the fact that she understood Lydia's psychology enough to push her buttons like that, you know, it's there's there's there's such a uh mutual understanding, uh or at least from June's side, that I think that we could see what you proposed to say.

[1:00:03] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, and I mean, God, Elizabeth Moss is phenomenal.

[1:00:08] Ben Rimalower: I have such mixed feelings about Elizabeth Moss because now this is the second series in a row where I have felt so connected to her.

[1:00:16] Daniel Nolen: Like Yeah, it makes it makes me want to convert to Scientology.

[1:00:19] Ben Rimalower: If I saw Elizabeth Elizabeth Moss on the street, I would feel like I was seeing you on the street, you know.

[1:00:25] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:25] Ben Rimalower: Like, and yet, like, I, you know, I so uh oppose Scientology.

[1:00:31] Daniel Nolen: And so it's like it's hard, you know.

[1:00:34] Ben Rimalower: It is hard.

[1:00:35] Daniel Nolen: It is hard.

[1:00:35] Ben Rimalower: And and especially because we know all those things that Scientology believes, which is like really ass backwards stuff.

[1:00:43] Daniel Nolen: And yet But I don't even mind their beliefs as much as their you know, they have a right to their beliefs, but their policies are so horrible.

[1:00:50] Ben Rimalower: Uh uh sure, but also it's like knowing all of that about them and then seeing, yeah, seeing Liz Moss playing a character so convincingly who is about the rights of minorities and women and the disenfranchised.

[1:01:04] Daniel Nolen: It's yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:01:05] Ben Rimalower: She obviously, to some extent, subscribes to the beliefs of Handmaid's Tale.

[1:01:11] Daniel Nolen: I mean, she's one of the producers.

[1:01:13] Ben Rimalower: She directed one of the episodes this season, I think.

[1:01:16] Daniel Nolen: I mean, there's no way that Elizabeth Moss is just like, this is just a job for you stupid liberals, but I secretly think women should be enslaved, you know.

[1:01:26] Ben Rimalower: You know, I mean, I mean, that's an oversimplification of what Scientology is, anyway, but women do not have full agency there in the same way that men do.

[1:01:33] Daniel Nolen: Well, and it's a very um hierarchical environment, you know, like money and power.

[1:01:40] Ben Rimalower: Anyway.

[1:01:41] Daniel Nolen: Yeah.

[1:01:42] Ben Rimalower: Well, on that note, uh leave our speaking of money and power.

[1:01:47] Daniel Nolen: Thank you for writing us those reviews and ratings on Apple Podcasts.

[1:01:51] Ben Rimalower: Oh, yes. Should we read the latest one?

[1:01:53] Daniel Nolen: Our latest studio.

[1:01:56] Ben Rimalower: Okay, our latest review.

[1:01:59] Daniel Nolen: Oh, we just got another one.

[1:02:01] Ben Rimalower: I haven't seen this one yet.

[1:02:03] Daniel Nolen: Why don't you uh why don't you read this first one, then I'll read the one we got last week.

[1:02:07] Ben Rimalower: Okay, this one is sub uh subject is fully obsessed, and it's by Judy Dean, as in if Judy Garland married Maddie Dean.

[1:02:16] Daniel Nolen: No, but Maddie Deems was his name.

[1:02:18] Ben Rimalower: So I don't know what Judy Dean means.

[1:02:20] Daniel Nolen: Um she says, every time I put on this, I don't know why I'm so confident that Judy Dean is a cis man.

[1:02:26] Ben Rimalower: Um, it's probably Judy Garland and Dean Martin.

[1:02:30] Daniel Nolen: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:02:32] Ben Rimalower: Um they say every time I put on this podcast, I learn one to two million things.

[1:02:41] Daniel Nolen: I consider it an invaluable resource for anyone who's looking for an earnest, funny, sometimes irreverent musical theater podcast.

[1:02:52] Ben Rimalower: Fully obsessed.

[1:02:53] Daniel Nolen: Oh, that is so sweet.

[1:02:55] Ben Rimalower: Thanks so much.

[1:02:56] Daniel Nolen: Judy Dean.

[1:02:57] Ben Rimalower: Thank you, Judy Dean.

[1:02:58] Daniel Nolen: Um, next up is from Larry of NYC.

[1:03:02] Ben Rimalower: I'm pretty sure this is our uh listener.

[1:03:05] Daniel Nolen: Larry Fuxburg.

[1:03:07] Ben Rimalower: Larry on on Next Your Summere.

[1:03:09] Daniel Nolen: Love for the Ladies of Broadway.

[1:03:11] Ben Rimalower: Ben and Daniel revere a Broadway belt and have put it on display for theater lovers as one of the brightest lights in the world of podcasts.

[1:03:18] Daniel Nolen: Love their spirit and humor and showcasing of incredible singers on every show.

[1:03:23] Ben Rimalower: Oh my god!

[1:03:24] Daniel Nolen: Tattoo that on my back.

[1:03:26] Ben Rimalower: Yes.

[1:03:28] Daniel Nolen: Well, you two can have your review share it on the pod, and you can really help us make an impact on the world.

[1:03:36] Ben Rimalower: Just think there might be somebody out there that doesn't know how incredible Tyne Daly or Angelo Lansbury was in Gypsy.

[1:03:47] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, yeah.

[1:03:48] Ben Rimalower: I mean, and and if if this you could help us skyrocket to the next level, and next thing you know, we're working with Tina Fey to produce a Folly's TV show starring Ann Dowd, Gene Smart, and Dolly Parton.

[1:04:04] Daniel Nolen: Only you can prevent forest fires.

[1:04:09] Ben Rimalower: Okay, well, uh, this has been so fun.

[1:04:12] Daniel Nolen: Now I'm like itching to go watch more of uh more programs.

[1:04:16] Ben Rimalower: I want to take a nap.

[1:04:18] Daniel Nolen: Yeah, me too.

[1:04:19] Ben Rimalower: Oh, I'm actually gonna go on my walk and I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna listen to this girl's five of us soundtrack.

[1:04:23] Daniel Nolen: Yes!

[1:04:24] Ben Rimalower: Alright, bye, y'all.

[1:04:25] Daniel Nolen: Bye.

[1:04:27] Ben Rimalower: Thanks for listening to Ben Remeler's Broken Records on Broadway World.

[1:04:31] Daniel Nolen: For more episodes, visit Broadway World, iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever podcasts do be.

[1:04:37] Ben Rimalower: This episode was edited by me, Daniel Nolen.

[1:04:40] Daniel Nolen: Thanks to Emmy winning composer and lyricist Lance Horn for the Broken Records theme song.

[1:04:44] Ben Rimalower: Follow us both, Ben Rimmelauer and Daniel Nolen on all y'all's socials.

[1:04:48] Daniel Nolen: That's Ben Remelauer.

[1:04:49] Ben Rimalower: B-E-N-R-I-M-A-L-O-W-E-R.

[1:04:54] Daniel Nolen: And that's Nolan with an E, not Nolan with an A.

[1:04:57] Ben Rimalower: Because Nolan with an A, is an ass.