This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] BEN RIMALOWER: Broadway Podcast Network presents Giants in the Sky, how Sondheim and Lapine went into the woods with me, BEN RIMALOWER.

[0:08] BEN RIMALOWER: Today's guest, Danielle Ferland.

[0:11] Danielle Ferland: Once upon a time.

[0:17] BEN RIMALOWER: You were on Broadway in Sunday in the Park with George.

[0:20] Danielle Ferland: Right.

[0:20] BEN RIMALOWER: And um now you are not on the video of Sunday in the Park with George.

[0:26] BEN RIMALOWER: Is that because you had left the show already?

[0:28] Danielle Ferland: Well, yes. I mean, I left the show, and the um the thing about they wanted it to be as close to the painting as possible.

[0:39] Danielle Ferland: And there were some jokes every now and then. I'm like, don't grow, don't grow, because you know, the girl in the painting is probably three.

[0:46] Danielle Ferland: And it was like a little bit, it was a little bit of a, you know, a joke, but honestly, this I don't remember.

[0:46] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember. I feel as though there was some they did reach out to us to tell us the why.

[1:01] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember. I feel like that might have been the reason because it was the origin because other people had left the show.

[1:08] Danielle Ferland: I think it had a lot to do with it being that I was I had grown a lot because this was after I left the show and right before it closed, I think, when they uh so no, that is not me.

[1:21] Danielle Ferland: Although some people think it is me, because you know, why wouldn't you? When it's the every I think every other cast member's original.

[1:27] BEN RIMALOWER: Right.

[1:27] Danielle Ferland: But you're returned.

[1:28] Danielle Ferland: But I I seem to recall there being I don't I didn't take the call myself, but my mu my parents talking because they I think explained why I'm this video's gonna happen.

[1:38] Danielle Ferland: I'm not gonna be in it. Regardless, what why did you leave the show when you left the show?

[1:44] BEN RIMALOWER: Sunday?

[1:44] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Um, did you go to a different job or was it like No, no, I think it was school, um, commuting, because I lived in Connecticut and my mother tutored me.

[1:57] Danielle Ferland: Um, you know, at the time, you know, right now I think that was probably the reason, but I don't remember it.

[2:06] Danielle Ferland: I remember it sort of being like, oh, well, that's what we're gonna do.

[2:09] Danielle Ferland: Like I think we had a certain amount of time because there were other kids, and it wasn't that they didn't want me to be happy and successful, it's just it was it got to be a lot for the family.

[2:19] Danielle Ferland: I mean, we we did not, I think some kids, especially when they live further away, move to the city and go to like which schools go to like the professional children's school.

[2:27] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[2:27] Danielle Ferland: I didn't do that.

[2:28] Danielle Ferland: Um, if I had done that, that might have been a different story, but I think because we maintained, you know, a semi-normal home life.

[2:34] BEN RIMALOWER: And how long of a drive was it to your it was uh the train from Grand Central, it was about an hour 35.

[2:41] Danielle Ferland: Not too short.

[2:42] Danielle Ferland: And um long either.

[2:44] BEN RIMALOWER: And you were you were 13 when Sunday in the Park with George opened?

[2:48] Danielle Ferland: Um I might have been 12.

[2:51] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember that age.

[2:53] Danielle Ferland: Around that age.

[2:53] Danielle Ferland: Just before that, I mean, in my experience of Stephen Sondheim, between Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park with George and the um city opera A Little Night Music that you were Frederica in, which was for public television.

[3:07] BEN RIMALOWER: To me, you are such like a you know, Sondheim canon artist.

[3:11] BEN RIMALOWER: But as a 12-year-old, did Sondheim mean anything? Were you like a company head or was it all nothing?

[3:19] Danielle Ferland: I wasn't, I mean, we listened to some stuff.

[3:21] Danielle Ferland: My parents were definitely, we had a very varied music taste growing up, but my parents loved to see shows and their favorite show by all was Evita.

[3:31] Danielle Ferland: They played it constantly.

[3:33] Danielle Ferland: And when my when I was cast in Sunday and my mother found out who was in it, I thought, I mean, I remember looking back, she was younger than I am now.

[3:42] Danielle Ferland: And she was like, Oh, yeah, you know, it was very exciting for her yeah but yeah they listened to shows they saw a bunch of stuff I hadn't really seen much I saw Annie and had you ever done Annie?

[3:42] Danielle Ferland: No I missed it I remember hearing on news radio eighty eight when it was closing like they're I remember being in my parents' bedroom saying oh that show's closing that was right before I even entered the business I think but you were in the business you were in the city I mean you were creating original roles in Sondheim shows you weren't going to do like Annie at like the Delaware summer theater like and who knows if I hadn't been cast off Broadway in Sunday I may have I the same summer that I did Sunday I played baby June in Gypsy at the Candlewood Playhouse um and I loved that as a dancer I danced for many years tap was my forte um but I loved doing that that was who was Rose do you remember?

[3:42] Danielle Ferland: No but the woman playing Louise was dating Tony Roberts that's what I do remember.

[4:46] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh wow for Tony Roberts I didn't remember him being at opening night and people saying oh it's Tony Roberts and I was like um okay so uh but you obviously got to know a lot about Sondheim being in Sunday both at playwrights and then on to Broadway and um and I assume because you were a kid you probably didn't have the same sense of the pressure of was it gonna go to Broadway and how are the reviews and all that kind of stuff like no I will I didn't.

[5:16] Danielle Ferland: I also, even though I knew it was he was highly regarded because I heard I didn't go home and then like research every Sondheim show either.

[5:26] Danielle Ferland: I don't recall doing that.

[5:27] Danielle Ferland: I mean, I know I listened to some other stuff, but I remember there being some amount of pressure.

[5:32] Danielle Ferland: There was um just during the writing and the the the development of Sunday, there were a lot of changes.

[5:38] Danielle Ferland: I mean, you know, I only went in, went in shortly before it closed.

[5:43] Danielle Ferland: And it was um I don't know.

[5:45] Danielle Ferland: I remember there being a lot of kerfuffle surrounding that.

[5:48] Danielle Ferland: Like read that amazing James Lapine book, putting it together.

[5:51] Danielle Ferland: Yes, that's um that's part of it.

[5:53] Danielle Ferland: I mean, it's it was it was really an interesting read because I remember a lot of this going on.

[5:59] Danielle Ferland: You know when there are people who were kind of I don't I didn't wouldn't call it arguing, I would call it debating creatively, you know.

[6:06] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[6:06] Danielle Ferland: And it was um I had a great time.

[6:10] Danielle Ferland: I mean, I loved being there.

[6:13] Danielle Ferland: Um I don't remember a tremendous amount about the rehearsal process.

[6:20] Danielle Ferland: Um I rem I have snippets.

[6:22] Danielle Ferland: It was all at uh, you know, the studio downtown, was it 890 Broadway?

[6:26] Danielle Ferland: Was that yeah with the elevator with the door, you know, that the guy I had to do the manual.

[6:31] Danielle Ferland: Sorry.

[6:32] Danielle Ferland: I mean, I love those studios.

[6:33] Danielle Ferland: They bring back a lot of memories.

[6:35] Danielle Ferland: The Michael Bennett studios you guys have.

[6:37] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, yes, right, exactly.

[6:38] Danielle Ferland: Oh my goodness.

[6:40] Danielle Ferland: Um, but yeah, I mean, I remember having a really good time.

[6:44] Danielle Ferland: I loved doing it.

[6:46] BEN RIMALOWER: And did you have a sense, I'm sure you like it that it had won the Pulitzer and was the darling of the New York Times and after I remember everyone it like the big thing you heard was that it was in weird musical, it wasn't like other musicals.

[7:00] Danielle Ferland: It's Sondheim's a genius.

[7:02] Danielle Ferland: And that act two was different than Act One, and Act Two underwent so many changes, so many different.

[7:08] Danielle Ferland: I mean, look, all I knew growing up was that process.

[7:12] Danielle Ferland: I didn't do a show, I did Gypsy, but I thought that was normal, you know, completely.

[7:17] Danielle Ferland: And I think it is to some degree, you know, you do develop things, but there were significant changes in both shows, obviously.

[7:24] BEN RIMALOWER: And um what did you ask me?

[7:28] Danielle Ferland: No, no, you're this is great.

[7:29] BEN RIMALOWER: I mean, I mean I this is what I want from you.

[7:31] Danielle Ferland: So okay, but so you get one phone call saying we're gonna bring back the original cast, but not Danielle, because the girl in the painting's really little and she's older now.

[7:41] Danielle Ferland: I mean, I remember being disappointed, but I do recall, and I'm not I can't speak absolutely about that that someone reached out to us to explain why.

[7:49] Danielle Ferland: Sure, and it may be very well in James.

[7:51] Danielle Ferland: James called my house to talk to my mother about the job in general, like he was so he was so good with the younger people.

[7:58] BEN RIMALOWER: He was so that tracks with how he seems like he would be.

[8:03] Danielle Ferland: So, but then there's another phone call about this new show.

[8:06] Danielle Ferland: Is that the next is that tell me about your first awareness that there even is a thing called?

[8:13] Danielle Ferland: What I remember, and I maybe again I if I'm if memory serves, there was a three-day, two or three day reading of a new musical, and it was just like an opening number.

[8:24] Danielle Ferland: And Chip Zion played a prince, yeah, because maybe he told you this.

[8:29] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, yeah, he was there, he was a prince.

[8:31] Danielle Ferland: This is at Playwrights Horizons, isn't it?

[8:33] Danielle Ferland: I think so.

[8:34] Danielle Ferland: There was a longer workshop at Playwrights a bit later.

[8:38] Danielle Ferland: It was like a two-week.

[8:39] Danielle Ferland: Um, Mary Darcy played Cinderella and Betty Buckley was the witch.

[8:44] Danielle Ferland: Yes, I did that one as well.

[8:45] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, Danielle, okay.

[8:47] BEN RIMALOWER: Like, are this is amazing because you're really making my dreams come true right now.

[8:52] Danielle Ferland: Like what you're making my dreams come true.

[8:54] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh really?

[8:54] Danielle Ferland: Oh my gosh, everybody else has literally said to me, like, yeah, there were some readings or workshops, depends what you want to call it.

[9:03] Danielle Ferland: And I'll say things like exciting things.

[9:06] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[9:06] Danielle Ferland: I'll say, like, and Betty Buckley was the witch, and they'll go, I don't remember who was the witch then.

[9:11] Danielle Ferland: And like, I mean, it's like so for you to tell me.

[9:14] BEN RIMALOWER: But is it because they feel uh I don't know, maybe they do remember and they just don't want to go.

[9:18] Danielle Ferland: I mean, I'm not saying people are that too.

[9:21] BEN RIMALOWER: No, no, they'll but they'll talk about Betty being the witch in the other workshop later in 1987 or you know, after San Diego, but because the way I'm understanding it is that there was a Playwrights Horizons reading, which you just care clarified for me.

[9:36] Danielle Ferland: Right, the very early reading, yeah, and then there was a workshop for a couple of weeks with the people you prescribed.

[9:41] Danielle Ferland: Then there was the San Diego production, which I want to get into why you didn't do that, but that's a second.

[9:47] Danielle Ferland: But I know that they wanted you, and then they got you back.

[9:50] Danielle Ferland: There was another workshop after San Diego, and then there was Broadway.

[9:55] BEN RIMALOWER: Correct.

[9:55] Danielle Ferland: And so I remember I I mean, I would love every granular detail of anything you can tell me, who was in them, who did what, how they went, what the songs were, who said any I want everything from starting from that first you said possibly two or three-day reading.

[10:12] Danielle Ferland: Yes, so I did the first two or three-day reading.

[10:15] Danielle Ferland: All I remember was the music, it was some version of the melody that we know of the opening number, and I don't remember it being Chip until Chip said it many years later.

[10:27] Danielle Ferland: So I had no idea.

[10:29] Danielle Ferland: Um I played Cinderella.

[10:33] Danielle Ferland: No, I'm kidding.

[10:33] Danielle Ferland: I played little, wouldn't that be funny for me?

[10:36] Danielle Ferland: Um, yes, and then there was the two-week workshop.

[10:38] Danielle Ferland: I remember Mary Darcy being Cinderella.

[10:40] Danielle Ferland: I remember Robert Sean Leonard was Jack.

[10:43] Danielle Ferland: Yes, and he was a very different and we were quite friendly.

[10:46] Danielle Ferland: We um I worked with him on The Good Wife in the past.

[10:48] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, right, yeah.

[10:49] Danielle Ferland: And I and he was like, Oh my god, you know, we all that stuff.

[10:52] Danielle Ferland: And um, oh my god, it was like Christine Baranski, who was in the off Broadway Sunday, was um Yvonne, you know.

[11:00] Danielle Ferland: Um yes.

[11:02] Danielle Ferland: And then I worked with her on The Good Wife and we can reconnect it.

[11:05] Danielle Ferland: It has that these things bring people back.

[11:06] Danielle Ferland: I know it's a different show, but anyway, Robert Sean Leonard was in it.

[11:09] Danielle Ferland: This is the two-week workshop, and it was definitely Betty Buckley.

[11:12] Danielle Ferland: Yes.

[11:13] Danielle Ferland: Now, being young, I don't think I was privy to I w definitely wasn't privy to exactly what happened.

[11:20] BEN RIMALOWER: Well, let's save that because that I think that might have been later, right?

[11:24] Danielle Ferland: It was later.

[11:24] Danielle Ferland: So that happened.

[11:26] BEN RIMALOWER: And then do you remember anyone from the reading other than Chip being a prince?

[11:32] Danielle Ferland: No, I don't remember anything.

[11:34] Danielle Ferland: Was Robert Sean Leonard in the reading?

[11:36] Danielle Ferland: He might have been because I remember when he I seem to recall when I did the two-week workshop, which I think it was two weeks, he was I remembered him.

[11:44] Danielle Ferland: Yes.

[11:45] Danielle Ferland: Um like could Betty Buckley have been in the reading.

[11:49] Danielle Ferland: I have no idea.

[11:50] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember it's quite possible, but I don't remember.

[11:53] BEN RIMALOWER: Are you familiar? There's these demo tracks with like Maureen Moore and John Cameron Mitchell.

[11:58] Danielle Ferland: No, like George.

[11:59] BEN RIMALOWER: Not familiar with those?

[12:01] Danielle Ferland: Oh, really?

[12:02] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh interesting.

[12:03] Danielle Ferland: Like I'm but you would remember if George Lee Andrews had been in the reading.

[12:07] Danielle Ferland: Probably, but uh maybe I remembered it then and then

[12:12] Danielle Ferland: Yeah.

[12:12] Danielle Ferland: And then years later, I don't think so.

[12:13] Danielle Ferland: I really don't think so because I did A Little Night Music when I was like 19, and you would think it's a couple of years later.

[12:19] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[12:19] Danielle Ferland: I and Maureen Moore, same, maybe, but with George had a a bigger presence.

[12:25] Danielle Ferland: Uh Maureen and I got on very well, but more for he, I was in more stuff with him.

[12:30] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[12:30] Danielle Ferland: I remember that.

[12:33] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember anyone else.

[12:34] Danielle Ferland: I wish they might have just recorded demos because they sing several parts.

[12:38] Danielle Ferland: She sings The Witch and The Baker's Wife and whatever.

[12:42] Danielle Ferland: But um then, like, because there's this website Overture with like just O V R T U R that has a lot of information on weird stuff.

[12:50] Danielle Ferland: And like the cast they list for the um the playwrights workshop is um Robert Sean Leonard, you uh Mary Darcy as Cinderella, Bob Gunton as the narrator and the steward from Evita, Bob Gunton, who was promoted, um Joy Franz, um Nancy Opal and Janet Schneider as the stepsisters.

[13:11] Danielle Ferland: I remember Nancy Opal. I feel I remember Nancy Opal, but again, having worked with her, um yeah, I mean that sounds right. Sounds like Howard McGillen and Patrick Quinn as the princes. Yeah, I could I think it was probably Howard McGillen again. I've known I know him from a bunch of different working on a bunch of different readings and things. So stuff like that blends together. Like if it were a show, I would remember. Yeah. Because it was like I did I've you know, he was another one I've known for a long time, and you can't quite remember where it started, you know.

[13:46] BEN RIMALOWER: Well, and so do you remember um a lot of time passing between that reading and that workshop?

[13:55] Danielle Ferland: I don't think it was right away, but I don't think it was very long. Maybe because I think I might have been 14 when right, because it hadn't gone to San Diego. Yes, this tracks, because it was my sophomore year in high school when I did not go to San Diego. And the reason do you want me to go there yet or not?

[14:14] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, sure.

[14:15] Danielle Ferland: The reason is because at the time it was like a four-month commitment because it was developmental. It was difficult, you know, with the family. And then the other wrinkle was because I had done a few other things. I was I would have I would have had to drop out of school. I would not have had enough credits to move into my junior year had I taken that time because of the structure of where I stood academically.

[14:43] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[14:43] Danielle Ferland: And everything, those things all together, I was really disappointed, you know, because I also don't think we weren't, even though we had been in a Broadway, a Stevenson and Broadway show, we weren't, I don't think, as well versed in the you're giving up this a tremendous chance of a future with this show. You know, I I guess we were worried about it, but I don't remember being worried enough that we would drop everything. I have a younger sister, she's six years younger than me. You know, my mother was teaching, like to uproot. I know a lot of people who did that. I know people who moved to LA with their kids all the time and do pilot season. We it just wasn't really, I don't know. We weren't like a showbiz family, so it didn't really think we didn't think let's just change everything, you know. I guess.

[15:28] BEN RIMALOWER: But I mean that sounds like you have really good parents.

[15:30] Danielle Ferland: I mean that they oh I do, I do. Well, and also they were game from the beginning. Yeah, being in Connecticut, not being a showbiz family to have this dancing school teacher say, I've brought some kids in to meet agents. You want to do it? And they were like, Well, okay, like you know, it's nobody, not a many, many people I know said to them, Why are you let's just let her wait till wait till she's eighteen. You have a family and they didn't they didn't make you wait, they let you did it, do it, and they took the train with you. They found it exciting for sure, but but they also encouraged you to stay and do your junior year rather than falling a year behind in school and the gambling.

[16:07] BEN RIMALOWER: I didn't want to do that. But they must have instilled that in you, not to give your parents all the credit, but I mean but it also paid off because it came to Broadway and they you got the offer. Um it's so funny the visual imagery. I remember getting in the car with my mother after school, and she was looking at me and she was smiling, and she said, into the woods going to Broadway. And she picked up her hand and we high-fived and and she said, and they called, and I high-fived her, and it was really cute. And and by the way, then I had to learn I know things now.

[16:37] BEN RIMALOWER: Okay, so this is what I wanted to ask you. Do you what do you remember material-wise from before from the workshop before San Diego?

[16:46] Danielle Ferland: I remember I don't remember I know things now being in the workshop. Yeah, I remember learning it to go in. I think it's pretty much the exact same. I don't think it changed, which others did, like the jack song changed significantly, Cinderella's did. And I remember thinking, I remember hearing my manager say, This is this you have to do this. It's more of a I think it sounds like more of a confirmation, but don't blow it. Because they saw a lot, then I heard they were seeing a lot of people.

[17:19] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, to go in as in for an audition.

[17:21] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, I don't like what I'd heard is that they want you to learn it. Like I went to Paul Geminiani's house to learn it. Like, and Paul Ford was there, you know what I mean? And we went and that was sort of the understanding, but then they saw a lot of people. I know that just through the grapevine, and I remember my manager also saying, Don't let that concern you. They do, they want to cover all their bases and they need understudies and don't, because I started to, you know, you get a little worried when you hear about that, especially when people being like, oh, I thought it was gonna be you. I went in for it. Cause you know, there's a lot of little bitches out there. Don't deny it. Um yeah, and then I got it. So I was relieved.

[17:57] BEN RIMALOWER: And then, I mean, were you very comfortable with Paul Geminiani and Paul Ford already from I was because I didn't have any idea otherwise. It's like there's something so lovely about ignorance is bliss. You know, I didn't have any of that. Again, I wasn't a showbiz kid. I wasn't surrounded by a lot of kids. I was often the only younger person in the cast. So people generally tend to tell, and I was also a pretty humble grounded person. So I think people were like, oh, you're not like that. Your parents aren't like that. We just didn't come from that world, so I didn't know enough to know to be worried. I just went around and had a blast. Yeah.

[18:32] Danielle Ferland: Like I remember going to par Sunday, we had so many amazing parties. I like kissed Kurt Knudson's son. He was my first kiss. I loved him. His name was Josh. I'll never forget him. I remember going to the water club, like on the East River, and around with him outside, and we hit our arm's length, and I was in my gunny sacks dress, you know.

[18:53] BEN RIMALOWER: Amazing. What's a gunny sacks dress?

[18:55] Danielle Ferland: Oh my God, it's like Jessica McClintock. They're these dresses that were sort of popular, and they were like sort of little house on the prairie-ish, but beautiful colors, like blue with like a little white, you know, like dressy dresses for 12-year-olds, which were now you know what you saw. It's very different. Um, but yeah, I really I'm I didn't know. Like I, as I got older and you realize the reviews and everything starts to you start to really be more um aware of all that. It's like, oh, yeah. There's a just a lot more to it than sure.

[19:31] BEN RIMALOWER: Well, and so okay, but also on the the workshop of Into the Woods, did you feel like this is a show or was there a sense of like they're gonna keep working on this? It's not like did you have a sense of it not being there yet in your It also it always seemed in flux. There were so many, there were three little pigs, and there I don't remember specifically everything, but I remember a lot of other I I and I hear you know, after the fact you hear about them trying to narrow down the stories. There were two stories, and then the common thread. I don't remember the baker and the wife though, I from the workshop, but that doesn't mean they weren't there.

[20:07] Danielle Ferland: No, they were it well, according to this web well, and I heard this it was a guy named Ray Gill who I guess died on. Oh, I know Ray Gill. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's true. Everybody loved him. And then um, I guess Chip was really good friends with him too. And Joanna was the baker's wife. She was. That's a name I haven't heard in so long, Ray Gill. Oh my God. Wow.

[20:26] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, yeah. So, but like, I mean, having gone through Sunday in the park with George in your young mind where you like, oh, but it's Sondheim and Lapine, they're gonna figure this out. This is gonna be great.

[20:36] Danielle Ferland: I I don't recall thinking that. I just thought, oh, I hope this happens. It's great. I thought the material was good, but I I figured eventually it would something would happen with the show. I wasn't thinking it's a done deal. I I mean I I didn't know at the time too about workshops that fell apart. Like I assumed everything that was chopped. You know what I mean? I think at the time.

[21:01] BEN RIMALOWER: Totally. Right. Why? And also as a kid, were you tapped in with the Tony Awards to the the fight between Sunday in the Park with George and La Cage aux Folles for like was that something on your radar?

[21:13] Danielle Ferland: People talked about it. They said they hoped that the two men in La Cage would cancel out and people would vote for Mandy. I remember hearing with that. I remember watching. I didn't go to the Tony's. I don't know why. Well, we weren't in it because it was recorded because of the pop-ups. Um so that that number was pre-recorded. Correct.

[21:34] BEN RIMALOWER: And I remember being in Connecticut and watching it, and it was huge because I hadn't really, I mean, because I have uh do you recall this number on from the Tony?

[21:46] Danielle Ferland: It's isn't it um the it's Sunday, isn't it?

[21:49] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, but there's but at the end there's a really amazing close-up of me when he takes off my glasses.

[21:55] Danielle Ferland: Yes, yes. It was like, oh you know, I just loved that because yeah, a commercial, but I hadn't been in like a TV show yet.

[22:03] BEN RIMALOWER: How'd you always before you did radio days?

[22:06] Danielle Ferland: Yes, and I have a good story about that too. I don't know if you want to hear it.

[22:09] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, tell me.

[22:11] Danielle Ferland: Well, it actually did change the course of the show because I wore glasses. Like if they had cast a child who did not wear glasses, I don't think that would have been written clearly. Hilarious. I mean, you know how often I go. Yes, exactly. Like, that's what's funny about it. I remember going to the I Man on the upper west side to get the and I still have the glasses. Oh wow, they're like little like thick frame, like little um the round with the wire, you know, very cool.

[22:39] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, I love that. Well, that's amazing.

[22:41] Danielle Ferland: Um, that's very jumping all over the place. Sorry. Okay, so um uh no, you're wonderful. This is a this is such a dream. So uh they go to San Diego, then they come back, they have you go in, everybody's going in, but you get the offer, and then uh what do you remember when you found out there was gonna be this workshop uh prior to the Broadway yes but it but they said this is the you're in it and this is the broad the workshop what happens is don't remember the length of time we're going in we do a staged reading presentation of the show with three different endings yes they had a big A B C and then they did that and then they went back and worked for a month and then rehearsal started for it was four weeks after the end of the workshop do you remember how many how much rehearsal there was for those three stage readings uh maybe maybe it was a total of 10 days like a week or 10 days because it was on book and it was um at play at 890 at Michael Bennett Studios and that was the entire Broadway cast except Betty Buckley was the witch instead of Bernadette is that right wasn't it Burke Moses was one of the princes I think oh maybe this is there's like zero information about this.

[23:55] Danielle Ferland: I don't know exactly why I think it was Bob Westenberg and Burke Moses and I think he got another something happened. I don't know I just remember that because I remember knowing Burke Moses after that and being like oh you were supposed to be in it I don't I feel I I may be incorrect you should no this is this is amazing this is the first time I've even heard his name brought up so I'm thrilled to have that um but other than that it was the Broadway cast minus Bernadette with Betty Buckley as the witch correct and so like one of the things that's been interesting to me is not knowing what happened where Betty Buckley, like you, Betty did the workshop at Playwrights Horizons, did not go to San Diego, and then did this workshop.

[24:41] Danielle Ferland: Um I don't and I know that also in a similar way, the woman that did Little Red Riding Hood in San Diego, Luann Ponds wound up being a replacement on Broadway. Yes. And I I really we hung out a couple times. I really liked her. Well, and she and Ellen Foley did the witch at uh in the old globe, and then was later a replacement witch on Broadway. But um, but Betty, I don't know the reason that she didn't go to San Diego, but I assume that it's different than the reason she didn't go to Broadway. So maybe it was a schedule or whatever.

[25:15] BEN RIMALOWER: But um, what can what do you remember about that workshop process?

[25:20] Danielle Ferland: I remember being exhausted, feeling like wow, because I had not played a role like that in a high profile show. I remember re at the end of the reading series being like wow, but it was like the kind of feeling where you worked really hard and you were like really happy about it, you know. And differently than the workshop the year before. I it just felt because it was a complete show. The workshop the year before, I don't feel like was a full show. I don't think it was like complete. Yeah, there was a lot of actual. I don't know if there was an actual, I have no idea. I just don't, it just was different. This was fully staged too. I don't think that was fully staged. I don't think. But yeah, I mean it was pretty Did it feel like a blueprint of what you wound up doing on Broadway?

[26:07] Danielle Ferland: Yes, because of the big question was what's gonna happen at the end.

[26:10] Danielle Ferland: Like, what do we know about the mysterious man? That was the larger will the baker's wife die because she didn't die in one of the versions. Right. Um, I don't I thought I think Bernadette is amazing, and I remember thinking Betty was amazing. She was very, very I remember it being very, very dark. That's what I can remember. By comparison. Um Bernadette had her, but I think that's what was she had all these colors, which was also amazing. But as I remember, because there were a couple things surrounding this. I remember before we went back in for rehearsals for the full Broadway, there was some kind of partial read through or sing through. And it might it was at someone's apartment, and I don't remember who.

And I walked in, my mother was with me, and Bernadette was there, and I was like, and someone said to me, She's the witch now. And I was like, Oh, like I had no idea. Um, I also remember because we almost got in an accident on the way home, we were fine. But um, I you know, there's just a couple things that stand out about that. I don't know whose apartment it was. It was really nice and really big. Um, it I don't think it was Stevens. Um, but I remember that moment of someone saying, I was like, why is Bernadette here? Like I I had no idea. Yeah. And that was definitely between the two. Paul Ford said something like that too. Um, but uh other people had forgotten that that happened. But that but that Paul Ford backs you up on that.

Um uh and so far I think you definitely win the award for the best memory in the cast. I'm I'm well, you know, I mean, I was I don't know, I was young. Well, so and and you that was so you obviously you knew Bernadette already from um Sundays. But I'm fascinated by this workshop that went sort of almost straight in to rehearsals. After you had were all three endings, was it like a Mystery of Edwin Drew thing where you did one ending, one ending, one ending, or did you do the whole show three times?

[28:11] Danielle Ferland: The whole show three times. I think as you recall. I think so. Yeah. I think it was three different days. I don't um I don't, yeah. We didn't say, okay, go back ten pages and do the end. You know, right. Well, I don't think so. I believe it was three different shows. And do you remember um like feeling by the third one that I mean that's starting to be a little bit like you're having, you know, that's I imagine the first one it's still all the nerves of like a staged reading presentation, but by the third one, you're kind of like in the the hang of it, at least the up until the ending. I don't think you were off book yet, but it must have been getting in your bones a little bit.

[28:51] Danielle Ferland: Definitely, definitely. I mean, it felt good, like I said, it felt very cathartic. I I just I I don't know why I remember that so well, feeling like completely exhausted. Well, even if it's three separate days, it would still I think that would, you know. Do you remember it being obvious from how they how it went each day, which was the best choice of the three possible endings? I don't because I don't even think I could be wrong, but what they ended up with was exactly one of them. I think they might have tweaked whatever it ended up being. Interesting. It was always about I remember the big thing being like, do we know if the is the narrator the baby? Like that was the big um, and in one, they don't address it at all.

Like it's just like not even hinting. Yeah. Is it hinted? I don't I don't think if it is Yeah, I remember. Doesn't he say I always cried when you held me? Doesn't he say that in the Broadway? Oh, maybe so, and I just don't remember. I don't, you know, you think I would remember having done the show again. I don't remember. That's fascinating. I I think um my gosh. Can you imagine? People are probably people are probably gonna be like, what is wrong? Like, I don't really remember. I feel that happened because I loved that. Like I just getting that one line. So maybe I'm imagining, and that's what I wanted. But I wonder if I can Google this. Um I feel like it was obvious that it was I don't think I knew that the narrator was the baby until that revival in Central Park, where it was like really like they made that the whole point of it.

The first thing that came up is from an interview with Eric Lieberman, who Oh, was he the baker opposite you as the baker's wife? Yeah, um, yeah, and he says, uh Danny, where there's a lot about you, of course, in this interview. We love Eric Lieberman. Wait, where's the thing? Um cry. Uh yeah. Danielle shared something wonderful, which was cut from the original. The narrator says to the baker, I always cried when you held me, indicating. Maybe that wasn't it. Yeah. Maybe he didn't do it. Yeah. But that is a great line. But that's so funny that I feel like, why do I remember that happening forever? Like what? Because definitely one of the versions had that, and then maybe so it wasn't even cut, it was like part of that process.

So he didn't say it. Yeah. Because I think they did want to leave it as a question mark. And I think a lot of people assumed it, but but that's look. I love to make up my own mind. I don't want anybody smacking me over the head with anything. I love subtlety and like to leave it. Like, I think that's the that's great.

[31:38] Danielle Ferland: That's fantastic. You wanna so hmm. Fascinating. And do you do you remember being told, um, you know, was there a lot of talking between the the presentations and then the start of rehearsals about which way things were going. For example, when you walked into that house and you saw Bernadette, had somebody already told you that Betty was out, or was that the first you realized that? No, no. I walked into the house and someone said, I said, What is Bernadette? I thought, oh, what is she doing here? And someone said, She's the witch now. And I was like, Oh, that was the first I'd heard of it. That was I had no idea. I was also not in the loop. You know, I wasn't gonna call me up and tell me anything.

Yeah, yeah. What do I care? You know what I mean? Lauren Mitchell and Kay McLelland weren't uh gossiping with you. Um so then you start Broadway rehearsals, and um it's a version of the script that you had done in those presentations with something cobbled together for an ending. Right. And um, as you said that uh I know things now was pretty much born in its final form. So that was I feel that I feel that way. I don't remember having to relearn anything. Um but the I so one thing that a lot of people have talked about in terms of songs that were cut and stuff is the second midnight, the long version of second midnight, which uh like again, those demos with Maureen Moore and George Lee Andrews.

I'll send them to you if you don't have them because it's great to hear that. It's great to hear that song. Um What is every mother fuss and bother? Why does every other child have a father? What did I do wrong? I remember that, and I, you know what I remember? I didn't have anything to do, and I hated it because I don't my mother's not in the show, and they never talk about my father. Like for Jack, it was present and his mother's in the show. So that was a thing. Cinderella's got her mother. We've got the whole childless baker and wife. We've got, you know, the princess, they weren't sort of a part of that. So I was in the number, sort of like singing to no one. I felt very like I was so no one liked it had so many different versions.

Nobody loved it. But it was like the the thing they kept trying to make work because I feel they had a they thought it had a place in terms of talking about the relationships, which is yeah, valid. But I remember being very happy it was cut. And then Tom Aldridge had shirts made up that said second midnight gone, which is just because of the show. That's funny. Second midnight gone. Um, but yeah, I was like, woo, because I didn't have anybody, I was like, why am I in this? You know?

[34:19] Danielle Ferland: You know? So interesting. So interesting, right? Because I, you know, it's it sounds so good, and it has that verse that people put into children will that sometime put into children will listen for Barbara Streisand to have a more like sing song y version of the song. Right and now other people sing it like that sometimes. And uh it's and I sometimes feel like the show ends like with three ballads in a row from no more to no one is alone to children will listen. And so then when I was in working on this podcast and listening to these cut songs, Second Midnight, I've been thinking, like, oh wow, like should just children will listen really belong in some form here more than in the end? Like it, you know, is or you know, or the um another thing is like um on the cast recording on your original cast recording, uh Brennadette sings that longer version of Lament that has more of children will listen in it.

Um then that's not really in the show. I didn't and I I remember I used to when I was young watch the video and be like, why is she singing the short shortened version? But um do you remember those cuts? I no, I don't remember that. I mean that could have been longer. I remember in Act Two, right? It's when Rapunzel dies, right? Exactly, yeah. It's rings a bell, I uh honestly, but I don't I don't I had a scene that was cut, it was what was that? The granny death scene. Like I think I go to the her house and she's dead, Granny, I think. Am I crazy? Like it could be. Um but do we see you get eaten by the wolf in that? Yeah, but this is after, this is during act two, like her house is destroyed.

Oh go when she's dead from the giant, excuse me. No, I think I don't remember exactly right. She doesn't die from the wolf. I remember something where there was a destroyed, and they had to tighten up act too. It just had to be done because the show was long as it wasn't, I know that. And I don't remember exactly why or where where it was, but I think it was when we when I said my house was destroyed, and I come in with the suitcase, we leave, and I think it's when they're in the woods together. She's with the baker and his wife.

[36:46] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Um, yes. Yes. I mean, the other thing Chip told me was that when Bernadette was cast, that he was told that he was gonna lose material because they had to write more for Bernadette. Um, and that there was it doesn't surprise me just because it's did he lose material? I don't even know. He referenced the scene, now I'm gonna forget it. But it was um it it wasn't that scene. So that's interesting though. That might have been part of the same cut. It was part of the same cut. I mean, I remember thinking at the time, oh, they need to cut this to tighten up, but then stuff's getting added for Bernadette. But I also remember it's because she's the star. I, you know, you're gonna be upset about whatever.

I mean, I don't remember being upset, I just remember knowing that that's there not been a sense when Betty was in it that oh, she's the star. No, she was, but this is we hadn't fully realized the show. I mean, so once they got it on its feet and there was more stuff written, I think they realized stuff had to be cut. I was never told stuff of yours is gonna be cut because it's specifically Bernadette. Right. I just thought she's the lead in the show. I remember when stuff was added, or I don't even remember what. I was I remember acknowledging in my head, oh well that's that's what happens. Like just because they say they need to shorten it up doesn't mean something won't be added. You know, of course.

But but it's also this to further the story. Yeah. Like obviously you can cut something, but if there's something else that they discover later on works, they're gonna put it in. Yes. But but so in your memory, there was not a different sense of the witch being the star when Bernadette was there than before Bernadette. It's so hard to determine that only because we were in a full, like my memory of Bernadette was all through tech. And you know, with Betty, it was only it was preliminary. You know, we didn't get to a point where it was fully realized. She definitely was known as the star. I mean, I I felt she was I knew Bernadette better and I knew of her more, but I there was a sense that she was the star of the show.

I mean Did we're as I mean I know we're not that far apart in age, like I I even at that time I was aware of Betty from Cats and from Aid Is Enough, so she I remember that, yeah. That was I mean something to you, yeah. Oh, definitely. It was just because I think the familiarity with Bernadette and I don't think there was any sort of like, oh, you know, where a stuff wouldn't have gotten cut if Betty was in it, you know.

[39:17] Danielle Ferland: I think I just remember during the process stuff having to go, you know what I mean? Like for because I don't think that was that was cut in previews. Some of that stuff was cut during pre like really interesting. Oh yeah. I remember the granny scene was cut early and previews were long. I think they delayed opening like a week. Previews were like six weeks or some. It was ridiculous. I mean, in my mind, we're all like, oh, because it's tiring, you know.

[39:40] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[39:41] Danielle Ferland: Then how about like once the show was open and I mean, did you have a sense like the way I asked about Sunday as a kid, did it come into your bandwidth to your radar that the show being sort of pitted against Phantom of the Opera as the, you know, vying for the at the tone at the time of the Tonies?

[40:02] Danielle Ferland: I absolutely acknowledged that. And I felt like how does a show at the time win best book and best score and not win best musical, but the show that wins best lighting and best costumes wins best musical. I didn't get that. I was like annoyed at the time. Yeah. But we I also had heard, you know, this is amazing, Sondheim. This is his first even semi like commercial thing. It just was so appealing to so many people. And I like a big I remembered knowing that people were really excited about it. Like that was very exciting. You felt like you were in a hit in a, in a yeah, something that people loved, like really, really loved.

[40:39] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, and also you know the whole thing about the Wolf's costume being uh sort of oh, yeah. Um it was beyond uh anatom they were trying to make him as anatomically correct as possible. I mean, they had to significantly adjust his genitalia because it was you know huge, and people were like shocked by it, apparently, including me, because I remember the first time I saw it, I was like, and it was a combination of they had to tone it down. And I remember James joking, saying, Oh, the little old ladies in the front were having a heart attack. You know, it was really like beyond. I wish there were a picture of that somewhere. That would be amazing.

[41:22] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, we'll have to get the um the costume uh what is it handhold word archives? Um what do you um this was a show? I mean, Ben Wright was about your age, wasn't he?

[41:35] Danielle Ferland: Yes, and I worked with him at a show at Playwrights uh on a show at playwrights when I was a freshman in high school called Paradise. Which it was written by George C. Wolf. And Ted uh no, Ted Sperling was the musical director. David Loud was the musical director.

[41:58] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, wow.

[41:58] Danielle Ferland: Wrote the mu some um, I can't remember who directed it, but it was myself and Ben Charlene Woodard. Wow, Tommy Hollis. I can't remember who played my mother. My father was Jerry Lanning, but then he had some health issue or something, and Steve Vinovich took over.

[42:23] BEN RIMALOWER: No, he was the um original uh Patrick and Mame Jerry Lanning, right?

[42:28] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um okay, here's Paradise. Uh 14 performances in 1985 at Playwrights Horizons.

[42:31] BEN RIMALOWER: 14.

[42:31] Danielle Ferland: 14 performances.

[42:38] BEN RIMALOWER: He didn't run for 14.

[42:39] Danielle Ferland: That is totally wrong. We ran like a Pappas directed.

[42:42] BEN RIMALOWER: Ted Pappas directed.

[42:43] Danielle Ferland: Yes, yes, not Ted, yeah. George Wolf wrote the book and lyrics, music by Robert Forrest. David Loud was the musical director.

[42:50] BEN RIMALOWER: Yes, he was, because I confused with Ted Sprung.

[42:52] Danielle Ferland: That's so true. You, yeah, Jerry Lanning, Charlene Woodard, Ben Wright, Tommy Hollis, Janice Lind.

[42:59] BEN RIMALOWER: Janice Lind, yes.

[43:01] Danielle Ferland: Interesting. Um it was not Ben Wright. Uh so that was nice that you had like a friend. Had he been in that workshop, I assume then in the f in the summer.

[43:11] Danielle Ferland: Oh, that was um oh in the summer, yeah, yeah. The one the two-week one before, way before the and so uh so you weren't the only young person. Because Kim Crosby was an adult, right?

[43:22] Danielle Ferland: She was not in the Yeah, and Ben was um he was starting college though when we two years older. So you were the baby still.

[43:31] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, for sure. Um, but you were older than you'd been in Sunday. D what do you remember about that run once it was sort of just an ongoing, you know, the Woods run?

[43:40] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Oh, um I mean it was definitely a lot. I I look back and at what I did, and you know, the trains were so crazy back then, they broke down every day. So I'm I was a junior and I went in. So my high school made some sort of exceptions in terms of the amount of credit, like extra um elective credits. So I took all my core classes and I had a meeting with like a guidance counselor, and then I would get on the train pretty much at like 3 30 or 4 because we didn't want to risk it. And I would get into the city then do my homework. Um at usually a place my favorite place was Tony Roma's a place for ribs because they had stairs.

[44:25] BEN RIMALOWER: Um yeah, and then you took the train by yourself at that point.

[44:30] Danielle Ferland: I did, but then at night we had an arrangement with Barbara Britt Barbara Brennan and I commuted together sometimes. We um because she was in Westport, so we'd drive home together. Her husband, the cutest couple, Denny Spence used to have his shoes specially made because these feet were so small. They were the sweetest. Um and my mom, you know, my parents wanted to know that Barbara we would go to Grand Central together at night, but then I would get on the train by myself. I always sat in the front of the train with the techies from all the shows.

[44:57] BEN RIMALOWER: So okay. This great run, big hit, you get the inflatable giant slag outside the theater.

[45:04] Danielle Ferland: You're yeah, which I've heard has gone missing. Is this true?

[45:07] BEN RIMALOWER: Isn't it true that they can't find it?

[45:09] Danielle Ferland: Oh, maybe so because they used it for the revival tour. Yeah, I think there's an article in the Times. You should look it up. I think that they can't find it, and that it's like a huge people are like, What how do you lose those? There were two, I think. I'm sure it was the article, but I can't remember. I think it's hilarious.

[45:25] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, that's pretty funny. How do you how do you lose that?

[45:28] Danielle Ferland: Um, yeah, I was I mean, it was a lot. The run uh, but I enjoyed myself. I remember the summer the home run. I didn't. Again, I would not have graduated, and I left after like a year and a half. I didn't leave right away. Yeah, I was it only it ran for two years. I I left like seven months before it closed. And then we came back and did the PBS in the spring.

[45:50] BEN RIMALOWER: So that you had to come back after you'd left to film it.

[45:53] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. And the people in the current cast had to agree. You know, you can't just be people because they wanted to record the the week of live shows.

[46:02] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah. So do you do you remember any of the replacements that came in while you were still in it?

[46:08] Danielle Ferland: Felicia Rashad, Nancy Dusot. Felicia was I didn't work with Nancy. Um I don't yeah, Felicia was just a a wonderful person. Completely different character, but I loved every bit of her. She came to my closing performance.

[46:24] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh yeah, I must have worked with somebody else because she wasn't in the show when I left.

[46:29] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, came back and I said, Why are you here? She said, I'm here for you. I I just loved her. I thought she was just and Bernadette, don't even I mean, she's beyond I talk about her when I do master classes about how the true uh the true theater star who is always a million gives a million percent, never never witnessed anything less than giving everything her all respect, professionalism, just everything about her was like the classiest day and you know you you reflect on it. I reflect on it as I get older because just from being young, like what my perception of her then and how what I remember about her and how she dealt with everyone and just her personal like everything was just like I I can't it was perfection. I mean, really, really just amazing.

[47:16] BEN RIMALOWER: How did she deal with everyone? What what do you mean?

[47:18] Danielle Ferland: I felt people weren't. No, at the she wasn't the kind of person who people skip naked around the dressing room. You know what I mean? She was, she had a like she she was very I I she wasn't, I don't know how to say this. She might have been very close to some other people. I was a younger person. I felt she was she hung out. Uh I mean, we went out to lunch sometimes in like groups, but I don't think I think she was just always professional and very wonderful and sweet. But I don't know if she, you know, because I could I could be lying. I have no idea. Maybe she did go out to bars with other people. Right. Just not me. Because I was only 16. Um, I just mean like she was so uh by comparison. I I don't know why I'm saying that.

Like I've definitely worked with big names. Yeah since then. And sometimes they are very distant. But then I've also worked with just people who do a lot of theater who are really like balls to the wall, who are buddies with everybody. So I guess that's what I'm sort of comparing to. She was which which of those things? She was very friendly, but I felt very professional and did she was there to do her job and do it and always give a mil like I said a million percent. I don't know how else to describe it. She was just And not skipping naked around the dressing room, though.

[48:34] Danielle Ferland: No, exactly. That's what I mean. I mean, we weren't in the same I have known several people have done that, not me. I have to admit um and being like, Woo, you know, all the time. I just is you know, it's a different kind of I don't know, she was like a lady, you know. She was amazing.

[48:49] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, Gordon Murray was in it.

[48:52] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, the baker's wife.

[48:54] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah. Um Kay McClellan played the baker's wife for a bit.

[48:58] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. Um, she and Lauren Mitchell both covered. I think she ended up doing it more. I don't exactly know why. Yeah. Um could what it was the witch that came after. If you weren't there for Nancy DuSu, maybe it was Betsy Joslin.

[49:15] Danielle Ferland: Oh, it was Betsy before, right? She did it before they and I love Betsy. She was amazing.

[49:20] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah. You knew her from Sunday in the morning.

[49:22] Danielle Ferland: Oh, but hilarious. Just as a person. She was just like, I loved her. Yeah, everybody. Merle was like, oh my God.

[49:29] BEN RIMALOWER: Talk to me about Merle.

[49:30] Danielle Ferland: Because I mean one of the best. Oh my god. She her dressing room was right next to mine. She was like, I'm a little baby. I'm gonna squeeze a bit. She was just luckyly, you know, because she went and spent time, I I don't know, everywhere. And she was just like this little funny, hilarious. Like, I remember a party where she was like dancing, and she was like, you know, like she was like a tr I don't know, like this little spirit. She was amazing. She always made me feel everybody was so great. Joanna, like they were just so she was so loving and so giving as a person as a performer. Joanna.

[50:03] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, and totally professional when she was working. But again, everybody in that show, I don't know one, I don't in my perception, I don't know one person who wasn't always there to work and discuss like just really committed to everything. I don't I can't say that about everything I've done since then, that's for sure.

[50:21] Danielle Ferland: But yeah, but do you think that you took that for granted at the time because you assumed everything was like that?

[50:27] Danielle Ferland: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. I absolutely did. I mean, do you I wonder if you have this sense now having done, I think maybe we talked about this last week, but have now that especially now that you did that other production later on where you play or two other productions where you played the baker's wife, that this is a show that feels so um seminal to so many people just from having been fans of it or having done some uh, you know, whether they did it in their high school or their college or community theater or regional production or a revival, that sense that you actually are the one not only who created the role, although you certainly did create the role, but also that because of that American Playhouse video, that every inch of your performance.

I mean, I often think within to you know, with other musicals, people sometimes have the original cast recording in their mind as a fan, you know, is hanging a shadow over future casting or or productions. But with Into the Woods, it's more than the cast recording. It's every single moment. So many of us grew up, you know, memorizing all your performances, just knowing every second how you know, Joanna Gleason saying, I pulled it from Maiden in a Tower. It's like, how does anyone playing the Baker's Wife escape that like, you know, right?

[51:45] Danielle Ferland: I don't know because that was tough. Let me tell you. I was like, I have to accept that I'm just not gonna be as good. Like I might, I'm I'll be me, I'll be funny, but I won't be as it's just you can't. She was the blueprint, you know. You can't, I loved it. I loved singing moments in the woods, I have to tell you. Like I remember every second of every night just sitting there and taking my hair down. I just loved it, I loved that song is like a delicious bath. It's like gorgeous. And when you're in it, it's like oh, it was just unbelievable to be able to sing that.

[52:19] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. I mean, I I've heard um, I'm gonna talk to Joanna out later today, actually. Um, I've heard that she had a lot of um input and feedback in the writing of that material. And I think you can tell it feels like a song written for an actor that just, you know, more than songs tend to, even Sondheim's songs, that the beats of that song just feel so human and clear.

[52:44] BEN RIMALOWER: How are there other things that you came to appreciate differently about the show over the years?

[52:52] Danielle Ferland: Definitely. I mean the whole arc of, you know, children and being able to have children, what that means, not being able to have children, what people the lengths people go to for their families. Also just the whole message of be careful what you wish for, you know, and after happily ever after, it completely changes and it just morphs, you know, because you don't understand there's just things you don't know or understand yet, just because you are younger or that you haven't lived. So it just and you know, I don't stop and think, oh well, this has changed, you know, listening to it again or being in it again, that's when it happens when you're suddenly like, oh, that's so fascinating. And you don't, or it hit you emotionally in some interesting way.

[53:36] BEN RIMALOWER: Now I know you haven't seen the current revival yet, but um have you seen other productions?

[53:42] Danielle Ferland: Many, many productions, like high school, college, you know, just a lot. I saw, I didn't see the park. I don't know why. Obviously, I saw the revival. Um, I saw the movie. Yeah. There's a cool video because you know, the park was based on a version they did in the Regents Park in London. I don't know why. Yeah. That one exists on video also. Um, that's just very interesting because they did that steampunk, you know, it was just a different, a different take.

[54:10] BEN RIMALOWER: Did you see the one they did um at the Laura Pels where it was like uh fiasco?

[54:16] Danielle Ferland: Yes. I did that was very cool. That was amazing. I loved it.

[54:20] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, yeah. And are your kids both teenagers? Is that right?

[54:25] Danielle Ferland: I have a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old. And um, I'm I'm sure they've seen the video of you as Little Red. Um, I mean, have they do they do theater?

[54:36] Danielle Ferland: They, you know, they both have done a little, they're not as into it as I am. My younger one does, has a really great voice. I mean, he is singing, he doesn't really like to sing alone. Um, but they, you know, they like many children of actors are like, oh, okay, no biggie. You know, they don't, yeah, you know what I mean? It doesn't affect them as much in that way. I mean, I know they're proud and impressed, but it's not like uh fans, you know, because and it's as it shouldn't be, you know.

[55:05] BEN RIMALOWER: They're my, when they, but when other kids who are theater fans find out who their mom is, they probably are very impressed.

[55:11] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, it's true. And my younger one who is a little like he just is a different spirit, he's very enthusiastic. He'll, so he said something to me a while ago, like my friend told me blah blah blah. I'm like, yeah, like you know I would be not, like, don't you? Well, I didn't remember. I'm like, well, why not? Like, I was like, and then that happened in your lifetime, like it happened a year ago. It's funny. I don't remember what it was. I was like, yeah, because I looked like he was telling me, but I was shocked that he didn't remember.

[55:41] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[55:41] Danielle Ferland: It's just really funny. He's like, I don't remember that. I was like, okay, it's fine. Yeah, he's they're hilarious. Hilarious. They're great boys.

[55:49] BEN RIMALOWER: Um, well, you're hilarious. This is it's so I really can't tell you how grateful I am to talk to you. It's like I've been fantastic.

[55:56] Danielle Ferland: I'm I'm so is there, I mean, I I probably will have to email you and ask you other questions because I'm sure.

[56:02] BEN RIMALOWER: Absolutely.

[56:04] Danielle Ferland: And you won't put in anything in figures. I don't know. I wish I had other funny stories. I don't, you know, if you want to know anything else, I can't really. But yes, please feel free to.

[56:10] BEN RIMALOWER: Oh, yeah, I mean, you've been incredible. You've been so so candid and informative. I mean, and I really appreciate it. Um, and yeah, but of course, if there is anything else you want to share, I'd love to hear it.

[56:20] Danielle Ferland: Um, just one thing I remember just in in reference to the commute was like any time because the set would break a lot. Like not a lot, but enough.

[56:32] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[56:32] Danielle Ferland: Dick Cavett was the narrator, he'd go out and do stand-up, like when I remember thinking, I'm not gonna make the train. Because it was bad. I mean, it was the train was 11:20 out of Grand Central, and the show was like 2:50. I mean, that's cutting it close with like clothing. I mean, we would drop. I usually I usually walked because it was quicker than going down into the shuttle. It was just faster.

[56:57] BEN RIMALOWER: Um, but yeah, that and um I don't know. One thing that I've learned in these conversations that wasn't clear to me before, you know, there have been all these amazing um Sondheim sort of tribute concerts over the years. I mean, especially in recent years, because you know, he's such a god to all of us, but but even back in the day, you know, um, and this Into the Woods video has that energy about it, and I didn't understand until recently that it was almost two years after you'd opened, and it really you really were these stars coming back to your hit show that you'd left.

[57:38] BEN RIMALOWER: So I think that informs it in a way that fuels that kind of rock star energy that that I think um I it it's I think people feel that watching the video without necessarily knowing why, because one would assume it was just kind of during the run.

[57:54] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Because we opened in November, I think. And this was like May or June.

[58:01] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, of '89.

[58:03] Danielle Ferland: Yeah.

[58:03] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[58:04] Danielle Ferland: So it was a year and a half. A year and a half exactly.

[58:06] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah. Do you um do you remember changes made for that filming? Anything that affected you?

[58:16] Danielle Ferland: I don't remember. I do remember we recorded the shows and then they do pickups of like things like the tower and during the day. So we were working a lot. Um, I don't remember put it specifically. I just remember it was a lot and I loved it, but I was really happy.

[58:34] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah. I mean, I think the other thing compared to the Sunday in the Park video is that James Lapine directed it for the screen. And it I think that that pays off that in a way that it's it feels like that it couldn't be captured any better than that video is, as opposed to Sunday in the Park where it's just kind of like a video of a play, you know.

[58:58] Danielle Ferland: Right.

[58:58] BEN RIMALOWER: It's beautifully done. It's like a hybrid between theater and film. Like it's but it still stays true to the stage production. It's not because sometimes you see things and you're like, oh, this isn't really.

[59:04] Danielle Ferland: No, it's not like ridiculous close-ups of people's feet or whatever.

[59:11] BEN RIMALOWER: Exactly. That's why I think it works so well and it's so effective.

[59:15] Danielle Ferland: Well, I I'm I'm sure you'll continue to have new fans for for decades because of that. It's such a timeless.

[59:23] BEN RIMALOWER: I know it's so amazing. It's really nice that it has that. It's just with everyone you meet who are affected in that way. It's like it never ceases to amaze me.

[59:33] Danielle Ferland: Yeah. It's amazing. It's unbelievable. You're a rock star for nerds.

[59:38] BEN RIMALOWER: I remember once being at the I used to go to the duplex every Thursday when I was in college, um, to see these particular Jay Bradley and Bill Morgan.

[59:46] Danielle Ferland: And um it was amazing. We would always go, they would sing the same songs, and I would always sing, you know, like some Elton John or something. And this guy came up to me and was like talking about you know my upbringing, you know, Connecticut.

[59:59] BEN RIMALOWER: And I remember him walking away, and I was with my friend Patty, and she's like, What? I said, I just don't like he knows that about me.

[1:00:06] Danielle Ferland: Like, and I wasn't trying to be mean, I was just like, that's what he does with his time. Like, there's a lot of interesting people out there, and I really mean it. I'm like, wow, that's like a fan. And I was like, huh, you know, because things like that don't happen a lot. Like, oh, you have a brother and a sister, right? And I was like, Yeah, you know, it was just fascinating to me.

[1:00:24] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, well, but you are interesting.

[1:00:26] Danielle Ferland: I mean, I think part of what um made you and it's also true of a lot of the people in the original cast of Into the Woods, but but certainly you, and it's noteworthy, especially because you were a child actor, you know, is that there was there was such a person there, you know.

[1:00:42] BEN RIMALOWER: There was nothing automaton about you.

[1:00:45] Danielle Ferland: No, that was everybody, yeah.

[1:00:47] BEN RIMALOWER: Attitude, and you know, it's just and it's I mean, it I I think that's why you were such a um compelling um force in those things, you know.

[1:00:58] Danielle Ferland: Yeah, and um, and the other stuff you did, and it you know, it's especially striking for a child actor, whether it's in the in radio days, righty Aphrodite, alone music, that you know it it doesn't feel like a just a cute kid, it feels like somebody that like gets it, you know.

[1:01:14] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, yeah, I suppose it's true.

[1:01:18] Danielle Ferland: And by the way, can you believe that Kim and Bob are married? Isn't that hilarious?

[1:01:22] BEN RIMALOWER: So, did that happen after Into the Woods?

[1:01:25] Danielle Ferland: No, I remember uh if I'm I don't think I'm making it up. I remember her coming into our dressing room being like he took I think their first date was the Drama Desk Awards. I think.

[1:01:35] BEN RIMALOWER: Okay, don't, but I remember her saying, I think Bob just asked me out. Like I really, really remember this.

[1:01:41] Danielle Ferland: And I'm like, did you make that up? You know, because I was like, what? Because it was Pamela Winslow and I. We got it's funny because Pam is from Maplewood, which is right where I live. And I met her like a couple years ago with her parents at her old house. It was so funny. We're like, this is so strange.

[1:01:55] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[1:01:55] Danielle Ferland: Um, that was so crazy.

[1:02:01] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[1:02:02] Danielle Ferland: We're both in, I mean, and they're still together, like it's doing the thing in Costa Mesa, and then bam, that was really just you realize when you get there, it was a little stressful in terms of the material. It was a lot. But then just looking around, being so grateful to have that time together was like it was stunning.

[1:02:15] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah.

[1:02:16] Danielle Ferland: And Mo Rocca making that great joke about when they do Into the Woods in China, they call the song Child Will Listen. I remember James was like, oh, like I thought that was the best.

[1:02:35] BEN RIMALOWER: That's amazing.

[1:02:36] Danielle Ferland: Um, he's great.

[1:02:38] BEN RIMALOWER: Yeah, totally.

[1:02:39] Danielle Ferland: And then that's amazing. Um, well, thank you again so much.

[1:02:43] BEN RIMALOWER: You're wonderful.

[1:02:43] Danielle Ferland: And thank you so much. And I will talk to you soon.

[1:02:46] BEN RIMALOWER: Yes, please do.

[1:02:51] BEN RIMALOWER: Thank you for listening to Giants in the Sky, how Sondheim and Lapine Went Into the Woods on the Broadway Podcast Network. Check out episode four, where I talk with Ira Weitzman, the original dramaturg.