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[0:00] John Schwab: Hi, John Schwab here, and welcome to Episode 175 of the Curtain Call Podcast. Curtain Call is the podcast that takes you deep behind the scenes of the theater world, bringing you in-depth conversations with the story makers that are shaping the future of theater. We pull back the curtain to reveal the stories behind the stories and give you a glimpse into the backstage world like no other podcast does. And this week we have a returning guest, one of my favorites, but one we haven't heard from in quite some time. And that's not to say that she hasn't been busy. Since last speaking tour, she's written and performed a celebrated one woman show, Elephant, and appeared in the Olivier Award winning revival and redefining version of Oklahoma, belovedly known as Sexy Oklahoma here in the Young Vic and in the West End, where she was nominated for a Best Actress at the 2023 Olivier's for her turn as Laurie.

And her also her debut album, Dark Soul, was produced by Martin Tariq, Jamie Collum, Katie Tunstall, Martha Wainwright, no less, and was released in July 2019. But before that in 2018, she composed eight original songs for Sparks, a new play by Jessica Butcher, which went on to win Best Musical at the French at the Edinburgh Fringe. I mean, and this is after she started her career in 2016's Regent's Park Open Air Theatre production of Jesus Christ Superstar, where we first saw and met her. I mean, look, it's not surprising that Anoushka sounds like she's running at life and she's doing very well at that. Just, you know, since she started writing music at the age of 14, and she has also a degree in French and Russian from Oxford University.

I mean, why not? And now she's got a musical about to debut on BBC World Service, BBC Sounds and loads of other places, which we're going to talk about today. You.me, the complete musical, tells the story of Rose and Rio, two young strangers who meet online and fall in love during the pandemic. And this results in Rio flying across the world from Japan to London to find Rose. Now, in part two, we meet Rose and Rio again. The relationship takes an unexpected turn and Rose has to take on the deepest challenges of her life. And we'll talk about that too. Now, I chatted with Anoushka over the interwebs as she was busy rehearsing for her latest gig as Elizabeth Proctor in Crucible. And we'll talk more about that later.

So it was it would've been great to record in person, but we were just too far apart this time. But it doesn't matter. We had a great conversation. So, ladies and gentlemen, I give you the incomparable Anoushka Lucas. Have a listen.

[2:39] John Schwab: So Anoushka, we are we are doing this remotely. You're up in Sheffield. You're rehearsing. And we'll go through that. We'll go through what you what you've been up to, what you're up to now. And we're going to talk about you.me, the complete musical, which I am. I'm a little, no, I'm greatly obsessed. The trailer of this is off the charts. Good. I mean, it looks incredible. It's wild. Yes. But but listen, I listen, I'd like to go back because you've been on our podcast before. I think it's 2017 Anoushka. This was back in.

[3:16] Anoushka Lucas: Well, I think it was 2016.

[3:19] John Schwab: Was it 2016?

[3:21] Anoushka Lucas: I think so. Was it Jesus Christ Superstar?

[3:23] John Schwab: It was Jesus Christ Superstar. Was that 2016? Oh, my Lord. OK, you see there. I'm giving myself a year. But you were you were unbelievable in that. I loved that production. Regent's Park is an incredible place anyway, the venue. If you haven't gone to a production at Regent's Park, go because part of the joy about it is the atmosphere, the literally outdoor of it all. Like with your production, it was astonishing. And with Gethsemane being sung and then, you know, listen, spoiler alert, Jesus dies on the cross.

[4:07] Anoushka Lucas: In our case, it's covered in glitter, but it was bizarrely violent despite the glitter replacing the blood. Yeah, it was very.

[4:14] John Schwab: I mean, there was so much glitter.

[4:18] Anoushka Lucas: There was, I actually found glitter in a drawer in my house about two years later, and I was like, where the hell did this come from? And I was like, this comes from Jesus Christ.

[4:30] John Schwab: You were phenomenal in that. And then I saw you recently in Oklahoma, or as they call it, sexy Oklahoma, a little stripped back version. And I thought, hold on a second. All right, Anoushka Lucas, how do you not age at all in this? You know, I was just like, this is ridiculous. There's some kind of witchy thing going on here.

[4:53] Anoushka Lucas: Oh, it was fun. You know how to suit up your best.

[4:55] John Schwab: No, no, no. It was incredible. And it was so much fun. I loved it. I loved the, just the kind of feel, the vibe.

[5:05] Anoushka Lucas: Oh my God, it was so beautiful because we did all, it was a big selling point to me. I heard the album before I really understood what the production was. And I've always been a big Rodgers and Hammerstein fan. My dad made me watch Oklahoma when I was a kid.

[5:22] Anoushka Lucas: Dream ballet and all.

[5:23] John Schwab: Yeah. Where have they gone, those dream ballets? But I'm, you know, obviously come from a more sort of jazz background and very interested in live music, acoustic sounds. And I think in modern musicals, sometimes the musicianship and the sound of the band gets compressed or diluted in a way so that they're sort of just serving the people on stage. And the Oklahoma, sexy Oklahoma, Daniel Fish's Oklahoma, it was very much music front and forward. And everything was reorchestrated for like a bluegrass band. And we had a pedal steel guitar and oh, it was just a joy. It was, I never-

[6:06] Anoushka Lucas: And you could watch it all. Like the band was like sitting in the audience.

[6:10] John Schwab: Did you see it in the West End or at the Young Vic?

[6:13] Anoushka Lucas: I saw it at the West End, yeah.

[6:15] John Schwab: Yeah. And in the Young Vic, they were in the middle of us and it was really, yeah, it's very fun, but it feels so organic. You think that is what's going on, you know? It was sort of staged as though it was inside a community hall. Oh, my washing machine is going crazy in the background. I wonder if you're listening to it. Just putting on an important, a quick cottons wash, guys.

[6:36] Anoushka Lucas: Those are the most important, aren't they?

[6:38] John Schwab: Yeah, it's important. You get to a point in rehearsals where you're like, I need more socks. Oh, my God. Anyway, I apologize for that.

[6:46] Anoushka Lucas: It's okay. It's all good.

[6:48] John Schwab: Yeah, the bands, the band were amazing. And the band we had in London, both productions, they were truly extraordinary, extraordinary musicians.

[6:58] John Schwab: So before we get into what you're doing now, I mean, because there's something that is going to take place, I believe it's on the 21st of Feb?

[7:05] Anoushka Lucas: It is.

[7:06] John Schwab: And that is a brand new musical, world premiere of a new musical called You, Me, the Complete Musical.

[7:13] Anoushka Lucas: And then it, what do you say it's called? You dot me.

[7:16] John Schwab: You dot, okay. You dot me.

[7:18] Anoushka Lucas: Dot is pronounced.

[7:19] John Schwab: Thank you.

[7:20] Anoushka Lucas: That's okay. The dot is pronounced.

[7:22] John Schwab: Okay. And thank you for cleaning that up because it is there. I mean, if we were being completely pedantic, it could be you dot me colon.

[7:31] Anoushka Lucas: It could. It could be a punctuation heavy musical, but we're just going for the one in the middle. You dot me.

[7:36] John Schwab: I will put a link to the trailer for everyone to see because I think they should go see the trailer because it kind of shows, it really puts you in the world. But can you give me a little background about A, how you came to know the piece and B, what it's about and C, what people can expect when they watch?

[7:52] Anoushka Lucas: Yeah. So You Dot Me was originally conceived by a commissioner or a producer at a BBC worldwide service called Simon Pitts during the pandemic when we were in lockdown and he missed going to the theatre and he missed the sensation of being in the auditorium waiting for the show to start. And he thought, well, hang on, why don't we use the resources that we've got to create a new musical that can be distributed on an audio medium? And so he approached Theo Jameson, the composer, and they started to come up with this idea of a musical created for radio with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra playing along, as you do, and the story would be centred around Covid. And I came on board with Martin Sariel in spring 2021 and we recorded this one hour long piece in a basement in Dean Street, well in Dean Street Studios, and it was like peak lockdown.

There was no one on the streets. I was supposed to be doing a play that was being pushed back and pushed back and pushed back. And it really felt like theatre was under quite a lot of threat and stress. And the story essentially is I play a character called Rose who's 25 and has moved to London to start her exciting life and then it's gone into lockdown like three weeks after she's moved there and she's suddenly on Zoom meetings all the time in her tiny rental box room. And one day on Zoom she starts talking to someone else from her company who's a boy called Rio who turns out to be in Japan and he is sort of having his own Covid experience over in Japan and they end up sort of getting on pretty well and then sparks fly and then it's a question of whether or not it's possible to fall in love on Zoom and also, you know, what's the future for them.

And then Covid also encroaches on that story a lot. There's moments of things happening in each of their personal lives. And then when we left it, it was sort of a spoiler, but at the end of 2021 we finished the session and he decided to fly over to the UK to meet Rose and for them to try and be together for real in real because they think they love each other. And it went out on BBC World Service and it sort of, I think it had a bigger reception or reaction than maybe we expected. It really resonated with people and so I ended up getting an email halfway through maybe late 2022 where they were like, hey guys let's do a sequel.

[10:29] John Schwab: We keep playing about, and the sequel is, well, what happened after he played in London? Did they meet up? Did they fall in love? And also, where are both these characters now? Are they okay with the pandemic? Spoiler alert, they are not. Well, listen, where would the drama be, Anoushka?

[10:47] Anoushka Lucas: It would be a very short act.

[10:49] John Schwab: It would be a very short act two.

[10:52] Anoushka Lucas: Yeah, but then, you know, they just get some therapy. Can you imagine if someone like Todd was like, I have these urges, but I'm going to control them. And then there's no show.

[11:00] John Schwab: Yeah, so yes. But that's so cool. Like, I love the gumption to go, right, we need to do something. And I mean, of course, use the BBC Philharmonic. I mean, it is sumptuous sounds. I mean, it's beautiful, Anoushka. If you listen to them, the first one they recorded in isolation, every single instrument from the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra was a solo performer recording at home. And then Steve Levine, the producer and the music team had to work to sort of make it sound like the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra. And there's something really cool as well, because the second one is about coming out of the pandemic and how do we reintegrate normal life. And so it feels really amazing that second episode we recorded like together. And also the orchestra played together. And it's like, well, is this the same as it was before? Or is it a different thing? And what have we learned in the time that we'd sat around in our houses on Zoom for a long period of time?

[12:04] Anoushka Lucas: That's incredible. Like, it's just incredible. I love that. I love the journey. And Stephen Fry, I believe, he narrates this, doesn't he?

[12:12] John Schwab: Yes, yes. A nice, lovely young actor. I wish him well.

[12:17] Anoushka Lucas: Yes, he does. He's got a good future, doesn't he?

[12:20] John Schwab: I think so. It was really amazing. When the job came through, if I'm really honest, when it came through, I was like, what is a radio musical? That doesn't sound like a thing. And then they were like, well, Theo's writing the music. And I was like, oh, well, I do like Theo's music. And then they were like, and Stephen Fry is narrating. And I was like, oh, I do like Stephen Fry. And then they were like, and it's the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra. And I was like, where do I sign? And yeah, it is a really lovely coming together of people who all have an interest in storytelling, really.

[12:53] Anoushka Lucas: And what was interesting in the pandemic was particularly those of us that thrive in live storytelling or live music or coming together. I think we all had to be quite inventive about where and how we could use the skills that we had developed to continue to be storytellers or music makers. And yeah, I'm really, really proud to be part of this. It's such a wonderful, nice team of people who just wanted to make a show.

[13:25] John Schwab: I love it. I cannot wait for the 24 hours. I can't wait. Obviously, go back and listen to the first part one.

[13:31] Anoushka Lucas: Part one, part two.

[13:32] John Schwab: You taught me part one.

[13:33] Anoushka Lucas: And then part two.

[13:34] John Schwab: And then part two. And we put everything in the show notes. We're now going to take a short break for a word from our sponsors.

[13:41] John Schwab: Welcome back to the Curtain Call podcast, where I'm speaking with the multi-talented and gorgeous Anoushka Lucas. You also, Anoushka, you are a recording artist as well.

[13:52] Anoushka Lucas: I am.

[13:53] John Schwab: Is that correct?

[13:54] Anoushka Lucas: I am a recording artist. I'm a slow recording artist. I released an album in 2019, which I'm pretty proud of, but was quite a torturous process, if I'm really honest. And then after that, theater became, I'm a very strange actor who can say bizarrely that my theater career sort of gained traction across the pandemic. And so I became quite busy. And I put music on the back burner for a while, but I've actually recently started rolling the ball on recording album number two. So hopefully in April, I'm getting to the studio.

[14:30] John Schwab: Yeah, because you just have, look, everyone listening, you have a phenomenal voice. I'm, I am, I love your voice. I love, I also love your, you're just such a natural on stage. And I don't know if that comes from performing music in front of people, but, you know, in Oklahoma, you were just, and also, Jesus Christ Superstar, you just, you fill that stage and your voice is incredible, but also your physicality. And like, you kind of look like you belong on a West End stage.

[15:02] Anoushka Lucas: Thank you.

[15:05] John Schwab: That's, sorry, I didn't even let you finish your question. What was your question, John?

[15:09] Anoushka Lucas: No, I was just saying, does that come from, you know, being, it's quite subjective when you're in front of a crowd singing your own music, your own words, does that, were you able to take that into musical theater?

[15:30] Anoushka Lucas: Well, it's so interesting that you say that because I obviously started out as a singer. I was a singer for 10 years with a band and I was gigging a lot. And I transitioned into musical theater by accident. I didn't really intend to become an actor. And then I got cast in Jesus Christ Superstar. And actually I, if I'm really honest, I also quite early on was like, oh, I don't think I am a perfect fit for musical theater. I only, you know, it's not coincidental that I was in that Jesus Christ Superstar and in that Oklahoma and I haven't done any other musicals because I think I have quite, I don't have a traditionally musical theater voice and I don't have, I can't really dance for longer than 10 minutes without needing to lie on the floor.

And then straight theater at which point I was really confronted by my body, actually, when I took singing away because singing is something I've been doing in public since I was, I think 14. And so singing in public is an incredibly natural thing for me. To speak in public and to fully inhabit another person is something that I've had to learn to do over the last, as opportunities came up. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And this is sort of fun. And I was very, very lucky to get cast in a couple of shows where I was actually like quite a small part and able to sit in the corner and watch actors. And I was a musician in rehearsal rooms before I was an actor in rehearsal rooms. So my drama school training was like being on the piano for six years in rehearsal rooms, watching the actors and being like, that's cool.

Maybe I could do that. But yeah, I sort of feel like it's why I like acting because I find it really hard and I find singing very natural and easy. And so I personally am always trying to move. I'm trying to find the right balance between doing the thing that comes naturally and doing the thing that I find challenging. And I don't wanna be just singing all the time because that just feels like not as challenging as having to become, you know, I don't know, Catherine of France or the current Elizabeth Proctor.

[17:54] John Schwab: You did my segue for me. I love you for it. So we spoke just before we started recording, moving away from musical theatre, Elizabeth Proctor, which is, I think, one of, you know, America's, you know, American kind of classic plays, you know, just what great characters, you know, and what she has to do with. And, you know, did that just land in your email and kind of go, hey, yes, I would like to go to the Crucible and do the Crucible? I mean, this is-

[18:30] Anoushka Lucas: Crucible at the Crucible in Sheffield.

[18:31] John Schwab: Crucible at the Crucible.

[18:33] Anoushka Lucas: Yes, I'm gonna clarify one thing, which is very funny because people have recently been asking me how I choose my projects. And I'm gonna first say, people ask me if I would like to audition for things and then I go and audition for them. And if I get them, I'm like, how delightful. I'd love to do that and pay my rent. So I went through, I did a couple of auditions and actually I was in the middle of doing the play that I wrote. And I did Oklahoma and then I went straight into Elephant, my play at the Bush, which is a one woman show. And then this audition for the Crucible came through halfway through. And to be honest, I was like, I'm fucking tired, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't really wanna learn a page of Elizabeth Proctor and like doing the Crucible. And then I went in to meet Anthony Lau, the director. And it was just one of my favorite auditions I've ever had. And I walked out.

[19:24] Anoushka Lucas: I love it. And I was like, I'll never forget this part. And then I went in again. And then my agent was very funny. I had a phone call with my agent where she was like, we sort of weighed up the pros and the cons because I balance, I'm writing something at the moment and I was making my album. And then we're also trying to do like screen auditions and then she was like, she was like, well, you know, the only con I can really see, I hope I don't offend half your listeners, is she was like, you know, Sheffield in February is cold. And I was like-

[20:00] John Schwab: It's just fact.

[20:01] Anoushka Lucas: It's fact. Alice, you're not wrong. And she was like, other than that, Elizabeth Proctor, the Crucible in Sheffield, Anthony Lau. She was like, it's two months. What a, it's sort of a no brainer. And yeah, it's, and we've been in rehearsals for two weeks now. And the company is incredible. And it's exactly what I was saying in terms of, because I didn't go to drama school and because I didn't train in any way, which I increasingly think is a mixture of insanity and arrogance. I, you know, and also I didn't go to an English school. So I had no culture. Like I'd never read The Crucible before I got asked to go and audition for The Crucible. In the same way-

[20:46] Anoushka Lucas: I'd never read Henry V before I got asked to go in. And so I'm sort of like playing catch up. And I want to be doing these canonical pieces every now and again to be like, what is this and how?

[20:55] John Schwab: That's okay.

[20:58] Anoushka Lucas: How do I be Elizabeth Proctor? Because I'm obviously not, sadly, I'm not Sophia Okonedo. And yeah, and there's just, it's so thrilling. And it's such a good play. Oh my god, it's so good. It is. It is one of my favorites, as you know. And we're trying to do some really cool stuff with it. Like, you know, I'm trying to, my Elizabeth is hopefully going to seem fairly powerful and vindictive, which is fun. You know, she is definitely a woman scorned. So yeah, it's really fun. And it's, it's great. It's, it's a great, you know, listen, it's a list. It's a great play. I tell my boys, you know, I tell my boys, like, you know, John Proctor says, because it is my name, like, it is. And that is the thing.

Like, what do you have, if you don't have your name? And I said, that's the one thing you're given in this role that actually has the value you put on it. So make sure that you... I want to, I want to support you, John. But today, after rehearsals, I hate John Proctor. I'm sorry. I've seen you screwed over both of you in such a phenomenal way. He's thrown this vulnerable 16-year-old under the bus. Completely under the bus. His wife for holding him accountable for his own affair.

[22:28] Anoushka Lucas: I know. Sorry, I'm feeling my feelings. I'm very method.

[22:30] Jon Schwab: That's great. I love it. I absolutely love it. Well, Anoushka, I have seen you on stage, and I know, I just, I know that there's both a, like a humility that you carry, like, and you're a physicality, which says, I belong right where I'm standing. And a grounded...

[22:53] Anoushka Lucas: Oh, God, John, please don't try to deceive you and say that.

[22:57] Jon Schwab: I will, because, but it is, but you do, you have, you just, I believe everything you say on stage. And it's a real, it's a real gift. And I can't wait to see what, see what happens. You need, I'm because I'm kind of, I'd love to talk to you all night, but you need to get, you need to hang out.

[23:14] Anoushka Lucas: No, because I moved into these digs, and then I didn't, I didn't realise there were any laundry tablets. And I'm going to finish telling your listeners that today I went to rehearsals, this is disgusting, in a pair of socks that I took out of the laundry basket this morning. It's an emergency.

[23:33] Jon Schwab: We have all done it. Anoushka, I really wish you all the best. I really wish you all the best for this production. I cannot wait to see what people say. And you have a great time at Sheffield.

[23:43] Anoushka Lucas: You.me, and as I affectionately call it, 2.me.

[23:47] Jon Schwab: 2.me, I love it. I'll put it all in the show notes. And again, again, good luck with that all. And thanks for coming back.

[23:54] Anoushka Lucas: You're so welcome. Bye.

[23:56] Jon Schwab: Anoushka Lucas there. Singer, songwriter, actor, composer, all round fantastic person.

[24:08] Jon Schwab: And writer. Writer. Script writer. Don't forget. We wish her all the best for her turn as Elizabeth Proctor at the Crucible in Sheffield. And I will put links to tickets and dates in the show notes, so everyone's informed. You.me, the musical, the complete musical, will launch on February 21st, 2024. That's this year on BBC World Service, BBC Sounds, YouTube, and other podcast providers. And again, I will put a link in the show notes to find that.

[24:36] Jon Schwab: If you want to reach out to me, you can find me on all the socials at JonSchwab, J-O-N-S-C-H-W-A-B. And it just gives me great pleasure to thank Anoushka Lucas for being an incredible guest. Also, a big shout out to Candy Adams from Candy Adams PR for helping make it all happen. And once again, thank you to Shure Microphones for being our equipment sponsors. We love you guys.

[24:56] Jon Schwab: Lastly, I love you all too. Thank you all for listening. Speak soon and stay safe. Bye.