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[0:00] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, it's like I feel very isolated, even though the fact that like it's clearly in a market and like everybody can look in. It's like a little fish tank, and like we're just like yeah, I feel like I'm in a museum or something.

[0:17] Cheeyang Un: This is East Side Story, and I'm your host, Cheeyang Un. Each week I sit down with an Asian or Asian American artist working in the New York theater scene, and I excavate their life story. How they grew up, how they got their start in theater, as well as projects they've worked on and upcoming work that we should anticipate. This week's guest is Cynthia Meng, music assistant on the musical Hadestown, which won eight Tony Awards, including Best Musical. She is also a music assistant on Grace McLean's In the Green that played at Lincoln Center. I finally got to work with Cynthia for one of Musical Theater Factory's concerts, and I was struck by her positivity, musicianship, and the way she commanded a room with precision and confidence. This episode is recorded with Listening Party inside Canal Street Radio. Shout out. Tell everybody a little bit more about yourself and who you are, what you do, and a little tidbit.

[1:14] Cynthia Meng: Cool. Um I'm Cynthia. Cynthia Meng. Mung technically, I guess. Yes. And uh I'm a music director, pianist, sometimes composer, but I really wouldn't build myself that way. But I work a lot in theater, and I used to be a software engineer. That was also something I used to do, and this was kind of a recent career change for me. So I love it.

[1:36] Cheeyang Un: Wait, can I ask how old you are? Is that a taboo question?

[1:38] Cynthia Meng: No, it's not. I'm 25.

[1:40] Cheeyang Un: My God, you're a baby.

[1:43] Cynthia Meng: I uh that's really funny, because I mean, I don't know. I, you know, I'm doing assistant work now, and sometimes it feels like I'm old to be an assistant.

[1:53] Cheeyang Un: No, but no, but it does because because you see all these kids coming out of school.

[1:56] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm not like right out of school anymore. Like, I, you know, I will acknowledge, like, obviously, like I'm not like old, but you know, there are those young, young whippersnappers coming out of college, and I am definitely not that.

[2:09] Cheeyang Un: So you're only three years older. Calm down.

[2:11] Cynthia Meng: I know, but it, you know, I think that's probably part of growing up. Is like is that you feel older than like the people who are younger than you. You're like, I just feel so old compared to you. Like you're 21 and right out of school. And I'm like, I already have a few years under my belt. So I'm not sure.

[2:25] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, just imagine. Just imagine. Give it a few more years. So you'd be like, uh, like I'm 45.

[2:31] Cynthia Meng: No, I'm not 45. But like it feels like I'm 45. And I'm like, oh god, but the great news is Asian don't raise in. So like we're gonna look young and do it. People constantly think I am like 18. I'm like, okay, great. I'm sure I'll take it. It's why not.

[2:46] Cheeyang Un: Share a little bit about your background, how you grew up, where you grew up, how you grew up, what kind of environment were you in.

[2:53] Cynthia Meng: Cool. My parents are immigrants. They came from China in '89. Um, they were students when they came, they got their master's degrees here. Uh, and so I was born in the States. I'm the eldest of three. So I was born in the States, and then born in Chicago, lived there for like a little bit, but like not enough to remember anything, and then moved to California, and that's where I lived and grew up. So I lived in the Bay Area, and which was an interesting place to grow up. I played classical piano like every good Chinese kid that I knew.

[3:26] Cynthia Meng: I grew up playing classical piano, so I was trained from a very young age, I think you know, when I was like five or six, playing little preludes and stuff. And I did the competition route. That was um I don't mean this to I'm not shading like my parents or my teachers because I do appreciate all the things that I grew up with, but the competition thing was horrible. It was really bad for me.

[3:50] Cynthia Meng: Like why it I don't know. I think that when you put that kind of pressure on a kid, like a young kid, I don't know, everyone gets like very competitive around like for you know who gets the prize and stuff. So it just it was so much pressure, and I really felt that as a kid, and as a result, at least with the type of personality I was maybe, I just would like choke. Like that was like my thing, like choking under pressure. So I would, you know, you have this PSC practice, whatever you memorize all these things, and then you get up on the stage and all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, I can't do that. Like I forgot how to play piano, you know. And that was really like, you know, it was a pretty big part of my life, and it was very I was the least happy when I was competing.

Like I think that was the truth. And because I loved playing, and there were I don't know, like there were just so many moments where I was like, I feel like I don't like this, but I also really do like it, and I couldn't figure out why. And obviously now in hindsight, it's like, okay, well, I didn't love the fact that I had to be put in these like super high pressure situations that ultimately now in my life like don't matter at all.

[5:02] Cheeyang Un: Yeah.

[5:02] Cynthia Meng: Um, but that was you know, that was that was my introduction to music. Did all three of your like you and your two siblings, did you all go through the same thing?

[5:10] Cynthia Meng: We all did. I was definitely the most intense one, and then like each progressive sibling, it was like less. So part of me was like, oh, you guys don't know. Like if you paved the way.

[5:21] Cheeyang Un: Right.

[5:21] Cynthia Meng: So I mean, and they saw, you know, they definitely saw the emotional toll it took on. I mean, all like 50% of the fights that I would have with my parents were about this wow like were about like oh like I just I you know either like you're not practicing hard enough or blah blah blah it's like because you're not like you know showing the results you know or or me being like oh like I just want to play like fun stuff too and there was something about it because like you would go and like the competitions and like your parents like all talk to each other right and like and they mingle with each other and they're all talking Chinese you know so it it is like a in some ways like a part of growing up it not just Chinese but like or Chin Asian but Asian American too because it it felt in some ways like it wasn't necessarily you competing it was you competing on behalf of your entire family.

[5:25] Cynthia Meng: Exactly yeah and then you have to like yeah yeah absolutely and that's that's where the weight comes from that's where the pressure comes from because you're like oh my god it's not just about me doing well it's about like showing that my family is is good at this thing yeah it was bizarre.

[6:29] Cynthia Meng: Right yeah so clearly it didn't change that drastically it was I mean it was it was just weird first also I guess to backtrack even further like when I was in middle school I I was in choir and I I could sing so I I was I was in choir and I that we sang for good.

[6:39] Cheeyang Un: Wow and then when did it change I mean you went to college for for computer science.

[6:43] Cheeyang Un: Yeah sorry at our middle school graduation.

[6:47] Cynthia Meng: It's cute. It's so cute and like I was like what is this like this is weird and doesn't sound like anything else that we've ever sung and that's how I discovered musical theater. So you know I mean it was true wicked was like a huge um turning point in my life and what once I figured out what musical theater was, and then there was like this um kind of like theater trip like community theater troop like in the area, and I got to be a part of that. And of course, the you know, the schools are always looking for free labor, so like they're like, Great, like this sixth grader can play piano, like just let's just have them play piano.

[7:16] Cheeyang Un: So for free.

[7:18] Cynthia Meng: Right. So I would, you know, play in a company, and that's how I learned that aspect of playing piano and what it meant to be a collaborative pianist and stuff. So if like music was such a huge part of your life throughout high school, why go into you know computer science?

[7:34] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, it's a good question. I I went to college and it was just very much expected. It was like, dude, like this is you know, you you do these things because they enrich your life as a high schooler, and then you get a real job.

[7:46] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, you get a practical degree.

[7:48] Cynthia Meng: And yeah, yeah. I think I felt that too. And where did you go to college?

[7:50] Cynthia Meng: I went to Harvard.

[7:51] Cheeyang Un: Oh excuse casually.

[7:54] Cynthia Meng: She just casually dropped that.

[7:55] Cheeyang Un: I went to Harvard, yeah.

[7:57] Cynthia Meng: Like it's just it's just what you do.

[8:01] Cheeyang Un: No, I mean that's where that's where I went to school. Um, but yeah, so and when I was when I was there, it was kind of like, okay, well, I I don't know what I want to do. Of course, you go and undecided, you don't declare before you go. And then I was there and did the first year. I took this introductory computer science course. Both my parents are programmers. And I was like, this is cool. I I liked it. You know, I I were good at it.

[8:26] Cynthia Meng: And I was good at it, and I and I did like it, and I and I do like it. Um and I I didn't know at the time either that I would would be interested in music direction because I didn't know that was a thing. That was another thing. I I didn't know that this job that I now do or the things that I do was a thing.

[8:40] Cheeyang Un: When you were exposed to theater as a kid, was it like you were exposed only in school and like not part of your family exposure?

[8:47] Cynthia Meng: Definitely not.

[8:47] Cheeyang Un: So it was just like your own little experience.

[8:50] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, it was, and you know, my parents like knew about it because they knew me, and I would talk about it or I would like beg them to buy the like vocal selections book from Hal Leonard, you know, this kind of thing. I mean I had this very distinct memory of my of my mom like bringing me to see Wicked in LA because I really wanted to go see it and it was the regional production was at the touring production, yeah.

[9:10] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, I guess I it was it must have been at yeah not not regional, but it was it was at the it must have been the Almond s no the Pantages sorry.

[9:15] Cynthia Meng: Yeah.

[9:16] Cheeyang Un: And big big theater.

[9:17] Cynthia Meng: Yeah and my mom we bought these like scalped tickets from this guy in his backyard. We like drove to his cast it was like a it was like a family trip to LA and like my mom was like okay I found these like cheap tickets like on Craigslist or something. And then we went to this guy's house and then we went to see Wicked together.

[9:32] Cynthia Meng: Wow.

[9:33] Cheeyang Un: And that was my first show and it was really really cool. I was so excited and so they were they facilitated that in in a way.

[9:40] Cynthia Meng: Yeah. Um and that that's a very fun memory like I will I will always say yeah I always say that Wicked's my first show but truly it's not Mary Poppins is my first musical but I I got into musical theater very very late like in 2010.

[9:54] Cheeyang Un: Oh wow okay that is late.

[9:54] Cynthia Meng: Yeah so late yeah right it's like wait what wow I know I mean I didn't grow up here so my exposure to theater that's but but I'm I I find because because we've I've been talking to so many people the threat of like theater not being a part of their lives is part of their family tradition.

[10:13] Cheeyang Un: It yeah it's it's a big deal especially to Asian people and and and how we eventually end up in theater it's like a miracle.

[10:21] Cynthia Meng: It is like you know it's just it because it's such an it is such an American art form. And that's also partially why I think I was drawn to it as as a kid like I I felt like, oh, like this is like it feels like very American and not very.

[10:34] Cheeyang Un: Let's dig into what you just said, right? Like you said a little bit about you wanted to feel a little bit more American and and it's not necessarily that you didn't feel American, but just that all your living circumstances and how you grew up affected how you felt towards that.

[10:49] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, I grew up in a in a predominantly white town. And like, and I will also say, like, there were not a lot of black people or Latino people, period, either. So like it, you know, the next, the next minority group down was Asian people, but but at the same time, it was still mostly white. And like there was definitely all my friends were white, and like it was kind of like a thing that, oh, like that's like so Asian of you to like do this thing, right?

[11:13] Cheeyang Un: They would say that.

[11:13] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, there are things that were said to me that were like that, or or even that I would like say, you know, to be like, oh my god, like I'm I'm I'm in on the joke, right? And so because classical piano, it it actually did feel so like Asian to me, just because everyone around me was Asian and doing like classical piano.

[11:31] Cynthia Meng: That when I was playing modern music, and when I learned to play by ear and play like pop songs and things like that, well, that was that felt very white to me and and American. And so in some ways, that was what I think drew me to it, because it was like this is different, this is different than the other stuff that I see. Like I definitely did sometimes feel like, oh, like my parents don't have this cultural background that so many of my other friends like share.

[12:02] Cynthia Meng: And so, you know, I would go over to a friend's house, and her dad would like play Simon and Garfunkel and things like that. I have this such a clear memory of, and he played guitar and it was great. And that's how I learned about Simon and Garfunkel. Definitely not through my parents, but you know, the only thing my parents like really brought over with them in terms of like musical pop culture knowledge was like the Beatles, which was you know, as universal as you can get. Absolutely. And so, like getting to know those other art forms through people who were like my peers as opposed to like the people that I was surrounded with in other facets of my life was part of that.

[12:40] Cheeyang Un: Do you feel like during that time you actively ran away from what your parents associated with so that you could assimilate a little bit more with your peers? Did you feel like were you were you even aware of what you were doing?

[12:54] Cynthia Meng: I definitely would not have been aware of it at the time. I certainly like I wanted to do that more and oftentimes more than I wanted to play like the classical stuff. I think I really was drawn to the, you know, playing with people who were singing or me singing and playing at the same time. And so that I was attracted to, and I don't know if it necessarily was like a purposeful, like, ugh, like fuck you to like my culture, but it was a side effect of that was that I kind of was like, well, this is cooler, like you know, and this is what gets people to kind of respect me in the social hierarchy of schools, like oh, like you can play like piano man by Billy Joel, like stuff that you people know, right?

[13:43] Cheeyang Un: Instead of pop when you went to Harvard, let's talk a little bit about when you went to Harvard. How was that experience like?

[13:50] Cynthia Meng: So you said that you took it was practical reasons that you took computer science. Did you enjoy computer science while you were doing it?

[13:57] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, and how did theater play a part in that journey at Harvard? I did like computer science. I was really drawn to the way that you think as a software programmer. I mean, it was tough. I, you know, I think it was very clear to my parents and to me that like this is not necessarily it wasn't like my destiny to do it. I think I chose that way for me. But like, you know, I had some really good friends that really helped me out, like during that time.

[14:29] Cheeyang Un: In what sense?

[14:30] Cynthia Meng: In that, like, I just felt like it was either that part of me, like felt like I just like didn't want ultimately like want to do this for a living. And so I like maybe wasn't applying myself as hard in that way, or that I just my brain was not naturally attuned to think in such ways. Anyways, I was doing a lot of theater at school. I music directed a few shows.

[14:52] Cheeyang Un: Is that your primary uh no?

[14:55] Cynthia Meng: I would say my primary thing was was was singing in an acapella group. That was like a huge acapella group. They were called the Harvard Callbacks.

[15:01] Cheeyang Un: Yes. Harvard Callbacks. Shout out.

[15:03] Cynthia Meng: Yes, exactly. Shout out. Um, but yeah, and you know, I arranged for them and I music directed the group at some point. And of course, you know, everything you hear about acapella, it's it, and you know, you are in one as well. So I mean it's just madness. And they're my best friends, but I did do a lot of theater. And it was my second half of school that I actually became involved with this theater troupe at school called The Hasty Pudding, and that was like a student run, although heavily alumni funded organization.

[15:33] Cheeyang Un: That's great.

[15:33] Cynthia Meng: It was important for me because I as a composer for that organization, I and I was like the student conductor for two years. It was like eye-opening to me to be like, oh, like this is actually like first of all, I love the process of putting up a show. I love the like going from writing the score and then like running it in the rehearsal room and making all the changes like as you go, and then the orchestration and the arrangements and we had all these like pros like backing us up on that. That was like really eye-opening for me and kind of seeing the some of the famous, like not famous, but like famous to me now, like alumna and alumni who came from that theater. I mean Larry O'Keefe came from that.

Yeah, um Nevin Steinberg, who's uh who's the sound designer on Hadestown and a ton of other shows, like he was also part of that. So, you know, like later, like realizing all of these kind of like oh, like this is a this is a career path, and this is a viable kind of like job, the thing that I like to do, which is play piano and and use the ability that I can sing and and and sight read and sing what all these things like all these skills are applicable to a job.

[16:40] Cheeyang Un: Right, right, right, right, right, right. So but you still and then it's still a leap, right? You still went from college into a job that had to do with computer science.

[16:48] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, I did that, and I you know, I had a job and it it was just like an inkling in my mind, this whole like music direction thing. But then when I got when I got a job, I knew I wanted to be in New York, and the idea was that I would come to New York and gig. That was always the plan. So, like you do your day job in the day and then you gig at night.

[17:04] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, and the great thing about software engineering is I mean, it it was really flexible. I have to, you know, I had to give a shot. I got this job at a startup called Next Big Sound. They did data analytics for the music industry. Um, really cool stuff. And like I I love this kind of thing, like data visualization and and just what data means in in various industries, and obviously for me, the music industry was like super cool and interesting. Uh and so, but right before I graduated, they actually got acquired by Pandora Music Company. So, yeah, and so before I even started, they like that's how I went to Pandora. They weren't gone, they went to Pandora and they didn't get like liquidated or anything. They just like were like enveloped by the parent company.

[17:43] Cynthia Meng: Wow. So then I was working for a Pandora, but like for this like little company. And so I, you know, I I hustled quite a bit and and for the first year I would say I I kind of like played it safe. You know, in the in the following year and a half that I was there, I was gigging very heavily. And I think my coworkers can attest to that. I was, you know, I took advantage of the fact that in tech a lot of times you can work from home a lot. You can work on your own hours and you can kind of make your own schedule. I did as long as as long as you finish his work, right?

[18:12] Cheeyang Un: Yeah.

[18:12] Cynthia Meng: And you know there are some caveats to it which is ultimately why I I did leave because it was just not going to be sustainable. But I I took advantage of it. I I was at I was gigging all the time. Every time I could I was gigging and I took I it was it was just like the period of time where it was like say yes to everything.

[18:29] Cheeyang Un: I love that.

[18:29] Cynthia Meng: I love that which I mean it's it's hard. You do that and you're like oh my God I'm making like no money I'm making no money but I'm making no money and then I'm doing so much work.

[18:38] Cheeyang Un: Yeah.

[18:38] Cynthia Meng: But I did have the supplement of like having this other job which was like a salary job. Wow so yeah and that I will admit like that was a very weird and probably unrealistic situation for anybody else of other people like asked me like oh like how did you do that? I'm like it was lucky. Like this I was lucky that this job was willing to trust me enough and that they liked me enough to to let me do that kind of stuff.

[18:59] Cheeyang Un: Yeah.

[19:00] Cynthia Meng: But yeah that's what I did for a bit. And then during that period of time when I was working on at Pandora I did work on Moulin Rouge. Like that was like I I had some like pretty I would say like important projects that I worked on during that period of time. But then it was about now it's been about nine months that I left a fit, like left that job. Um, and it just came to a head. It was like, okay, you know what? I've been like thinking to myself for the past few years, like if it comes to a point where I want to take that leap, like I need to take it now. I need to do it while I'm young. I don't have kids, I don't have necessarily I'm able to take a risk. And I I fully understand that like peep people do that at all ages, and like I don't want to hate on that, but knowing my personality at least, I'm like, I can justify it to myself when I when I chose to leave that I was like, okay, great.

I've saved up enough money for the past few years. I've um made enough of a name for myself in the community where I feel like I won't necessarily be wanting for gigs once I take this leap. And then also I'm at a time period in my life where really the only person I fend for is myself. Obviously, I I have a I have a partner and I I have you know people that I care about in my life, but I I don't need to be financially responsible for them like I like I would be for a kid.

[20:18] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, I mean it's all I mean I I feel like these are all privileges that we have as like you know, we have first world problems and we have first privileges and for us to be able to do theater in itself and be able to do any form of artistry within the theater community. It's a privilege because there are people who are like fighting for their next meal.

[20:37] Cynthia Meng: Yeah.

[20:38] Cheeyang Un: And here we are.

[20:40] Cynthia Meng: And I I recognize that, and it's very I feel very like lucky at least to to have been able to make that choice for myself. And I'm very curious. So you've worked on a bunch of like really high profile gigs, right? Yeah, it's you start you you did Hadestown, you did In the Green, and you said you worked on Moulin Rouge.

[20:58] Cynthia Meng: Did you work on the Broadway?

[20:59] Cheeyang Un: I didn't know.

[20:59] Cynthia Meng: I just worked on it before I went to Boston. It was like this four weeks.

[21:02] Cheeyang Un: How did you get in like how did you get connected? How did you start? What take us through that process?

[21:08] Cynthia Meng: I mean, and it's always kind of who you know in some, or who has enough faith in you to recommend you, right? I think that I'm really grateful to there were just a few people that really kind of like started the chain reaction, you know. And I and in the case of Moulin Rouge, actually, in the case of both Moulin Rouge and Lempicka, it was uh and um Hadestown was the same person. I I worked on this production uh this workshop of a show called Lempicka, yeah, that's you know, up and coming and working with those people, and you know, Rachel was the same director as Hadestown and and stuff like that. And it was kind of through that actually that I got recommended ultimately to to both Moulin Rouge and Hadestown.

So uh it it really just feels like yeah, I mean, obviously, I we've all done the thing where we cold email people, and I've done that, and I don't necessarily not recommend doing that, but that will most likely not be as important as someone that the other person directly knows and trusts recommending you, and so I'm I'm grateful for like those people in my life that did that, and also I can I can very clearly like trace that route for myself and like trace it back a little bit for me.

[22:22] Cheeyang Un: So, like you said, um before you did Hadestown and Moulin Rouge, it was Lempicka. So, how did you get to do Lempicka?

[22:29] Cynthia Meng: And Lempicka's written by Matt Gould and Carson Kreitzer.

[22:34] Cheeyang Un: Great last name.

[22:35] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, and they've been working on that show for a while, and yeah, yeah, and it's I've only heard good things, I've not seen any iteration of it, but I'm I'm sure it'll be fine.

[22:43] Cheeyang Un: It's gonna come.

[22:43] Cynthia Meng: I'm extremely biased, but I it's like my favorite show.

[22:46] Cheeyang Un: Great.

[22:47] Cynthia Meng: Great. And how did you get on that gig?

[22:50] Cynthia Meng: Uh, that was also a recommendation from someone else. And I I someone I knew from school. Then that was kind of like a uh a big like a kickoff point for you?

[22:57] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, it was definitely like through those recommendations that I kind of I don't know, calling it leveling up is such a weird term. No, I think it's like making a connection to get to where you need to go and and it was really upgrading and projects. I felt I felt so grateful for like that because it it really felt like you know, I don't know, it it just felt like people whenever someone recommends you for something, I just like I feel like that's really cool because they did think of you in that moment.

[23:21] Cheeyang Un: So talk a little bit about your experience working on such high profile shows. Hadestown won eight Tony Awards. How was that process being in the room, assisting Anaïs Mitchell and the music team? How how was all of that?

[23:36] Cynthia Meng: It was it was amazing. I mean, it was my first Broadway show. It was my Broadway debut, I guess you could say. And and it was like, I mean, it was amazing. I was just so happy to be there like the whole time, like from day one or day negative five, even I was just like, oh my god, like this is so cool. I I fell in love with the music when I was helping people like prepare for their auditions and stuff.

[23:55] Cynthia Meng: That's how I actually found I didn't I like knew that it existed, but I didn't listen to the music until that happened, and then I was like, oh my god, like I need to like I have to work on the show.

[24:04] Cynthia Meng: Our creative team was very heavily female, and that was awesome.

[24:09] Cynthia Meng: I have to say, like that was such a cool. I mean, to have Rachel Chapkin at the helm of it, leading it all, like that was obviously super important.

[24:16] Cynthia Meng: But then like just the way that everyone was communicating, and I thought that was it created this like excellent work atmosphere.

[24:24] Cynthia Meng: Um, and so the relationship and rapport between like Rachel and David, who was our choreographer, and then Liam, our music director, as well as of course Aeneas, who was there through the whole process.

[24:38] Cynthia Meng: That was just like it felt like an open collaboration.

[24:41] Cynthia Meng: And everyone was being listened to and heard.

[24:45] Cynthia Meng: And to be on the music team specifically, I mean, it was really cool because it did feel like there was so much attention paid to like every little thing in the music, whether it came to the orchestration, like our brilliant, amazing orchestrators, and watching them like kind of just hone in and try to like really fine-tune a specific moment in the score.

[25:06] Cynthia Meng: Like that was just like a masterclass in collaboration.

[25:09] Cynthia Meng: And then also working with Aeneas who like, you know, a lyric, and that was a huge thing.

[25:14] Cynthia Meng: The lyrics, just like we would have these like all these like little changes like throughout the process, and it would be like, you know, changing a word here and there, and seeing how that changed the whole meaning of a line.

[25:26] Cynthia Meng: I was really impressed by that.

[25:28] Cynthia Meng: As someone, as someone who kind of like, I would say thinks more macro instead of micro, like that was really cool.

[25:34] Cynthia Meng: So like really hone in because they had had, you know, off Broadway, they had Canada, and they also had London to work on the show.

[25:44] Cynthia Meng: It really felt like in some ways, like there was just a lot of like little fine-tuning moments for Broadway because like they already knew what the show was on the big picture.

[25:53] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, I think in general, you know, like a lot of the overall picture, like I would say, maybe remained the same between London and Broadway, but there were so many little details that got changed, and I think that really made a huge difference too.

[26:07] Cynthia Meng: And of course, there were some big changes, but like overall, I think I mean, looking for between off Broadway and Broadway, that's a huge difference.

[26:14] Cynthia Meng: And between London and Broadway, it's obviously less of a difference.

[26:16] Cheeyang Un: And you came on to the show for the Broadway, yeah.

[26:20] Cheeyang Un: And talk a little bit about like what your job scope was.

[26:24] Cynthia Meng: Uh you know, basically music assistant, yeah.

[26:26] Cheeyang Un: What does that entail?

[26:27] Cynthia Meng: Music, I mean, it changes for each show, but for this show, you're basically keeping up with all the changes that are happening in the rehearsal process.

[26:35] Cynthia Meng: So that is like day one, obviously little zhuzhes here and there.

[26:38] Cynthia Meng: And then once you get the band in, it's like, oh my gosh, like here are all these changes.

[26:42] Cynthia Meng: And our copyist was we had a copyist as well, but he was like doing remote work.

[26:46] Cynthia Meng: So it ended up being kind of a collaboration between me and him as well sometimes.

[26:50] Cynthia Meng: And of course, the best part of the job is the printing.

[26:55] Cynthia Meng: Um I kid, because it was actually like terrifying how much paper we used, unfortunately.

[27:01] Cynthia Meng: I'm like totally changes every day.

[27:04] Cynthia Meng: I know.

[27:04] Cynthia Meng: It's like unfortunate, actually.

[27:06] Cynthia Meng: I'm really like kind of like, oh my gosh, when are we all gonna be on iPads?

[27:09] Cheeyang Un: But anyway.

[27:09] Cheeyang Un: I'm surprised that that's not part of the stage management's duties.

[27:13] Cynthia Meng: No, I mean, you know, they have enough stuff to print.

[27:15] Cynthia Meng: So for me, that was like I was only music stuff that I was putting.

[27:18] Cynthia Meng: The band stuff.

[27:19] Cynthia Meng: Band and like scores, you know, because like there would be like little things in previews, you know, every like in like stuff is still changing, like lyrics.

[27:27] Cynthia Meng: We would like there was this one song where we just like kept on like cutting a core half a chorus and seeing if it worked and then putting it back in and stuff, and it's so much an organizational job.

[27:35] Cynthia Meng: Like that's really what it is.

[27:36] Cynthia Meng: It is requires you to have a good ear and a good musical mind and a good obviously musical knowledge.

[27:42] Cynthia Meng: But what differentiates I would say, like a good music assistant from like a maybe not as good one would be the level of organization you're able to keep because like that is like almost more important in some ways than like your musical mind.

[27:57] Cynthia Meng: I mean, you also just have to be like generally very excited and willing to help.

[28:01] Cynthia Meng: I think you know, uh it's very tiring work because you don't first of all you don't play, like which is I think a lot of music assistants ultimately want to play.

[28:09] Cynthia Meng: Myself included, like that is my was and is like my goal is is to have hands on key.

[28:15] Cynthia Meng: And this is not that this is like you are sitting behind a computer, which is ironic because that's what I used to do, you know, my old job.

[28:24] Cynthia Meng: So you know I will admit like it gets um it can become very tiresome and like it's I don't think it's sustainable to do for the rest of your life because if you have like other aspirations then you really get pent up almost you're like oh my God like yeah but on the flip side it's like you are in the room where it happens right like you are watching that is why a lot of people all the yeah exactly all the magic that happens.

[28:48] Cynthia Meng: Yeah.

[28:48] Cynthia Meng: And there's a lot to learn from that.

[28:49] Cynthia Meng: Absolutely and and it is an amazing way to learn because because you know you there's always something to learn and I feel as someone who's like young in my in my career in this way like I can just like being in the room with like other music directors is like an amazing experience in that way just to uh even observe it.

[29:07] Cynthia Meng: Assistant work is like that is like the best way to get into the room.

[29:12] Cheeyang Un: Yeah 100% how is the process different for um Hadestown and in the green first of all so many similarities.

[29:19] Cynthia Meng: I mean like in that's like really the crux of it is that the work is actually a lot the same but the you know the differences there were kind of like in the green it was they were like way bigger changes in the sense that like there would be like a new song like that was intense like to put that in the show the next day.

[29:38] Cynthia Meng: So like you had to do all the transcription you had to prepare all the scores for that.

[29:42] Cynthia Meng: Yeah you know and I there was actually one point where I was like I was like on vacation like with my with my family in Disneyland.

[29:48] Cynthia Meng: My sister graduated from college.

[29:49] Cheeyang Un: Yeah.

[29:50] Cynthia Meng: Yeah.

[29:51] Cynthia Meng: So this was like you know a conflict that I had cleared before, but you know, I always like I could do work remotely and stuff.

[29:56] Cynthia Meng: And so they were they were putting a new song into the show.

[29:58] Cynthia Meng: That's a lot.

[29:58] Cynthia Meng: That's like to do a song and transcribe your song in the day, clean it.

[30:02] Cheeyang Un: Was there a copy of the song?

[30:03] Cynthia Meng: Oh no it was the other way around.

[30:04] Cynthia Meng: I would I was in Disneyland during the day I would come back at night and then transcribe the song I'd be like on Splash Mountain like okay time to go back.

[30:13] Cynthia Meng: I have to like transcribe the song.

[30:15] Cynthia Meng: Yeah that was a that was somewhat stressful but it all got done.

[30:18] Cynthia Meng: Yeah of course but yeah and and the orchestrations were slightly different like at least it was really a lot of orchestrating I think like on the spot it felt like a lot was happening in the room.

[30:29] Cynthia Meng: So then including working with the band.

[30:31] Cheeyang Un: Mm-hmm.

[30:32] Cynthia Meng: Yeah totally so it was a little bit less of like maybe the traditional orchestrator work where the orchestrator takes it and like does it and then you print it and then you try it and then you make more changes.

[30:42] Cynthia Meng: It was it felt very much like okay like what works here do this like and they they like scribble it into their parts and then I take it down and then like print a fresh copy.

[30:49] Cynthia Meng: And it was so cool to watch because it felt like it felt more like organic and like and yeah and especially for that show the little like this little off Broadway show it was important to kind of like hear it for first especially because we were they were using some kind of also yeah also they were experimenting with things that that usually don't go exactly we had you know in a band or we had a kanoon which is a middle eastern type of like zither instrument um so that alone was kind of like okay we have to hear how this sounds like it's just hard to visualize and so that was important to like be able to hear it.

[31:22] Cynthia Meng: And so they were doing a lot of experimentation like in the rehearsal room and then like the job was to like write it all down and then and then like print a fresh copy for the show that night or something.

[31:31] Cynthia Meng: So it's great.

[31:33] Cynthia Meng: Yeah.

[31:33] Cynthia Meng: It's it's fast.

[31:34] Cynthia Meng: That's the thing.

[31:34] Cynthia Meng: You just, I mean the the other the good thing is that you you do have to have a good ear because you have to just like be able to like hear and be like, okay, this is like what happens.

[31:40] Cynthia Meng: Like, this is how it goes.

[31:41] Cynthia Meng: Like, I can't just like spend time like plunking it out on the piano myself.

[31:45] Cynthia Meng: Yeah.

[31:46] Cynthia Meng: You know, I it's only been my first year as a true freelancer.

[31:49] Cheeyang Un: So you're thriving.

[31:51] Cynthia Meng: So it's I feel very happy, but I feel very busted.

[31:53] Cynthia Meng: It felt like, I mean, I don't know, like, I'm not particularly religious or in any way, but I I felt like it was the right choice.

[32:00] Cynthia Meng: And I will say this because I I've told this to a few people, which is that when I was at my other job, like I had I had these such distinct memories of talking with my manager who was an amazing manager, great person, and we got along so well.

[32:14] Cynthia Meng: And um, but I would just be like, I don't want to be promoted, like please don't promote me.

[32:18] Cynthia Meng: I don't want any more responsibility, just let me code, like being like a little monkey, like code and and submit the code, and and I don't want to make decisions.

[32:18] Cynthia Meng: I don't want to be in charge of anything.

[32:28] Cynthia Meng: Don't ever want to be a manager.

[32:30] Cynthia Meng: And like now, I don't feel that way at all.

[32:32] Cynthia Meng: I feel the opposite.

[32:33] Cynthia Meng: I feel so hungry to do more to you know, help the people that I, you know, I trust their work or or that people whose work I'm passionate about, like help them and also like take on more responsibility, either on my own behalf or on behalf of them.

[32:51] Cynthia Meng: And I think that is to me like the biggest sign that what I made the choice that I made was the right choice.

[32:58] Cynthia Meng: Because like I I have ambition now.

[33:02] Cynthia Meng: I feel like I feel like I have drive and I have like something that's kind of like keeping me hungry and excited for the future.

[33:10] Cynthia Meng: And that is something I didn't have before.

[33:13] Cynthia Meng: I I was very happy.

[33:15] Cynthia Meng: I was content, I was pleased in the sense that like I had you know, a salary and I had resources to see.

[33:24] Cynthia Meng: But it was there was this other thing that was like missing, which was the this idea that I would progress in my career.

[33:30] Cynthia Meng: You know, I didn't have that, and now I have that, and that is something that I value so greatly.

[33:37] Cynthia Meng: Ultimately, when I do get down on myself sometimes about being like, oh, like I if only I had just like you know ab school come here and just hustled from the beginning.

[33:47] Cynthia Meng: It's like, well, no, I I actually think for me, I needed to see what it was like to do the other thing and not necessarily have that ambition and then like compare that with how I feel now.

[34:00] Cynthia Meng: And then you'll have it's a different perspective.

[34:02] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, 100%.

[34:03] Cheeyang Un: And this is something that uh I'm gonna like do a little left turn, but also like very, very relevant to everything that you're saying.

[34:11] Cheeyang Un: Is that we don't in our industry at least, it's starting to be more of a conversation topic.

[34:17] Cheeyang Un: But how has it been to be in the industry in the theater industry in in New York as an Asian person and as a woman?

[34:27] Cheeyang Un: Like we don't really see POC music directors who are female.

[34:33] Cheeyang Un: Like we see we we're starting to see the rise of female artists in power, like female producers, female directors, but we still don't see like I can name maybe five very prominent female music directors, but they're all white females.

[34:50] Cheeyang Un: Not to take that away from them because I think that's that's really wonderful.

[34:53] Cheeyang Un: Of course, but then it's like you're one minority plus another minority.

[34:57] Cheeyang Un: How how does that come into play in this industry and and and how does this that affect you and and how you conquer what you want to do?

[35:06] Cynthia Meng: No, I I you become very, I think, aware of it on in in those circumstances.

[35:11] Cynthia Meng: Like, for for example, I I did I went to like a I guess an I I went to an audition like the other day where I was playing piano and and I walked in the room and literally every person that was auditioning there was was an older white man and I I I knew some of them which was great but it is like I kind of forgot almost forgot like how that feels like to walk into a room and be like oh my god like I really feel like kind of the black sheep here I've been really lucky to work on projects that that actually had a huge female and and uh person of color team and I think that's like because that's the energy you draw in the act as well.

[35:47] Cynthia Meng: That yeah and maybe that's part of it and but yeah it's and I think that I'm I'm lucky in the sense that I think now there seems to be at least a drive now for a lot of people to really diversify their teams whether or not they want to but that's not really of my concern it's like great it's happening like because it needs to happen right and so because you get different viewpoints into the room so it's not one homogenous viewpoint.

[36:09] Cynthia Meng: Right, and I think that was partially what made Hadestown sound so successful was just like having all those different viewpoints. Whenever I see a show where I'm like, this is just kind of weird, like this dialogue is written weirdly or this, like, you know, why did they write this character like this? And then I'm like, oh, like the entire team is like dudes. Like, hmm, maybe they should have like, you know, even consulted a woman when they like were writing this female character.

[36:32] Cheeyang Un: A hundred percent. I don't know, but yeah, I think that in terms of like my identity coming into play, like with my career, I would say that I feel like I'm able to communicate well with lots of different people. And maybe that's just a facet of having grown up, like not necessarily as the majority.

[36:54] Cynthia Meng: I will also say, like, I've been approached, or not approached, but like, you know, reached out to by several like young Asian American music directors, I guess, or music director types, or people who are interested in getting into this industry. And I realized now, like, that is, I feel very flattered by that. Like, that's so cool that someone, you know, has looked at me and been like, oh, like that's cool that like she does that, and I want to do that too. Because it's true, I didn't have that. And I wonder maybe if I would have gotten into the industry like earlier if I had seen other people doing that.

[37:32] Cynthia Meng: Because, you know, I mean, growing up, like my mom would say, and you know, I don't want to like out her as saying this, but she'd be like, you know, like why do you like doing this kind of stuff? Like, there's always just gonna be like some other like American person who's gonna like do the job like better, or because they like, you know, know more people or that, or they're just, it's like more part of their blood. At the time, it felt very much like, dude, like don't ever forget, like you will be thought of as an other. And that was probably how she did feel at the time, like, and maybe still in some ways, like feels now, is that like, you know, you can try as much as you like, but you're always gonna be, you know, they'll never really see you as their own.

[38:19] Cheeyang Un: Um, and that was like a bummer to hear at the time, and I understand totally that that's probably like a result of a lot of different experiences that led her to say that. But yeah, it's true. You like, because when you looked at like the stage, you never saw Asian people on the stage. I never did ever. So, like that was just enough to make, you know, people like my parents be like, that's not for us. This art form is not for us. Classical piano, on the other hand, is an art form for us because there are so many of us. So, you know, that's the thing. It's like, it's just like what you see is sometimes it really does dictate how you feel as an impressionable person, not even an impressionable young person, but an impressionable older person.

[39:05] Cynthia Meng: Like when you see, like, you know, I don't want my kid to grow up feeling like the other in this community of people that are like all white, and like then they like this is their, their parents are like happy to like send them to like musical theater camp and whatever, but like, you know, my kid is not gonna feel comfortable there because, yeah. So I, all this to say basically, I feel so happy now that it feels like there's more visibility, you know, you and me, and we're part of this community that like, it feels like there is like a flourishing kind of like community of Asian and Asian American performers and artists, and I think so happy about that, and it's definitely growing. And I think the whole point, I mean, as you were talking about that, I was like, that's the whole point of this podcast is to like put that visibility out there.

People are doing this thing, and people are doing it well, yeah, you know, and people are thriving, so it's a common thread, a common theme, which a lot of my guests are just like we've never seen ourselves represented in the media in any way growing up in American media at least.

[40:16] Cheeyang Un: Definitely not American media, yeah. And how does that affect you? And as a performer who's doing this now, how can you pave the way for the next generation of people who are desperately seeking that, right? And I wouldn't say that they're trying to search for validation, but I think they're saying, like, hey, look at this person can do it, so can I. You know, and I think that's beautiful.

[40:36] Cynthia Meng: I know. I know. It sounds, it sounds, I feel like we hear that all the time. It's like what it sounds almost like cheesy, but it's like that it but it is true. Like, is ultimately that, yeah. And when I, when you see someone else doing it, you're like, oh, like then you can like visualize yourself in that place. And that is important.

[40:54] Cheeyang Un: Um, yeah.

[40:55] Cynthia Meng: Yeah. Um, we've talked a lot about your entire life, and just so insightful, so exciting.

[41:03] Cheeyang Un: Thanks.

[41:04] Cynthia Meng: And I have a few questions before we, you know, close out. The very first one is if you could tell little Cynthia growing up one thing, what would you tell her?

[41:16] Cynthia Meng: It would be that all those like hours that you spent, like at the piano, learning how to play by ear, are going to be so helpful for you. Really, like, and I think that that's important is because I think at the time I was at least told by others that it was maybe a waste of time. All you just really like, you know, to learn to play by ear, like those like uncultured people. So I feel like very vindicated at least about that. Like, no, just keep going. In fact, you should have like learned to play jazz earlier. So maybe I would have told myself that. And also, and also that things get better. The thing, the relationships that you build with your parents will change over time for the better and for the worse. And things are, things always are in a state of change. So it is never just the way it will never always be the way it is at that given moment. Always can expect it to change.

[42:12] Cheeyang Un: I'm so curious. I mean, this is not really part of the question, but I'm so curious. How's your relationship with your parents and how is your relationship with your siblings?

[42:19] Cynthia Meng: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I am a little hesitant to put most of it on the air, but I will paraphrase and say that it was a strain for some time. Um, we are very different people, and there were some other factors that kind of like led to that, um, outside of even like my career choices. But um, yeah, it was tough. And now it has really gotten quite a bit better. And I think everything changed. I think enough time passed. You know, time passing helps, you know, people just have time to think over things, and I had time to think over things, and we had definitely had a lot of fights in the last few years. That was, you know, it was unfortunate to go through, but the relationship is good, I would say. And that is something I'm very grateful for because I did not think it was going to be good like for a long time.

[43:11] Cheeyang Un: Wow.

[43:12] Cynthia Meng: Yeah. So that's part of it. It's like you at the moment, you're like, wow, this is how it's gonna be forever. Like it's gonna be horrible forever. And then it just changes because time can do that, which I am happy to have learned, I guess.

[43:26] Cheeyang Un: That's beautiful. Um, how would you define success?

[43:32] Cynthia Meng: I'm still learning that for myself. So I can only give you the answer that exists at this moment, which is just that when you come out of whatever you're doing at that moment, like an extended period of time doing something that you feel that no matter what you got out of it monetarily or physically or things like that, or even praise from your peers or people who are important, that you feel fulfilled in that way. And that is, it's a hard thing to grasp. It's only something you only really know it when you feel it and then you're like, oh, this is what it feels like to like, first of all, I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about this particular thing that I just did, um, but I feel that I either worked hard, you know, or that I worked hard for something and that I either performed my best or put out something that I'm I feel fulfilled by. So it's kind of a vague answer in that way, but it's just such a personal thing and it's really just about not like other factors withstanding you feeling like you have are fulfilled.

[44:43] Cheeyang Un: If you can ask me one question and one question only, what would you like to find out?

[44:43] Cynthia Meng: Oh, I have so many questions for you, Cheeyang. How is it, first of all, is there musical theater in Singapore? And like how is that scene, if any, like different than here?

[44:43] Cheeyang Un: I was never involved in musical theater in Singapore. There actually is a growing musical theater, um, really, uh, kind of culture and all that in Singapore, but I was, because like when I was growing up in Singapore, I had no exposure to theater. The only media I was exposed to was television. So, and television was like the god basically. Like you're on TV, you were like you made it, you know? But people keep forgetting that fame is, ah, there's this quote by Hasan Minhaj that like, I'm like, that's a great quote. It's like fame is like a rental car. You get in it, you drive it, and then you have to return it. It's something that's fleeting. It's not something that you can have forever and doesn't mean anything.

So everyone was very obsessed with TV, and I was never exposed to theater or other forms of art. Um, mainly because my parents didn't know it, and as a kid, I'm not like actively looking out for all these things. And I mean, I'm that old that the internet, you know, was part of my life, but like it was like the dial-up, you know.

[46:06] Cynthia Meng: Like it was, I should have asked you how old you are. That's the question. Now I'll never know. You're just so dewy and smooth-skinned.

[46:14] Cheeyang Un: I don't know. You'll never know.

[46:16] Cynthia Meng: Well, anyway, but I wish I was exposed to theater way earlier, and I didn't. I saw my first musical on Broadway in 2010 because I was here on vacation and a callback in America.

[46:31] Cheeyang Un: Like what?

[46:32] Cynthia Meng: I know, I know. That's what was the show?

[46:33] Cheeyang Un: Was it Wicked?

[46:34] Cynthia Meng: I saw my, well, the first Broadway ticket I bought was Wicked, but the first show I saw was Mary Poppins.

[46:40] Cheeyang Un: Yeah, right, right, right.

[46:42] Cynthia Meng: Um, but Wicked was completely life-changing. I can always remember I was sitting on the aisle, orchestra left. My friend was sleeping, Elphaba's belting, and I was crying. That image will never leave my mind. I don't know if that's like, if that's true. Like, I think it's true. I mean, it's only been a few years, but like that image will always remain in my mind, and I know that was like I want to do this.

[47:09] Cheeyang Un: Did you like that episode of East Side Story?

[47:11] Cheeyang Un: If you did, follow us on Instagram at East Side Story Pod and at Chiang Music.

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[47:33] Cheeyang Un: Thank you so much for your support, and I'll see you next week.

[47:33] Cheeyang Un: This episode of East Side Story is presented in partnership with Listening Party.

[47:41] Cheeyang Un: Follow the crew on Instagram at Listening Party Presents and at Canal Street Market.