This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Gavin Creel: My name is Gavin Creel, and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:16] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. Our guest today is a man who needs almost no introduction. He's a Broadway and West End leading actor who has a Tony, an Olivier, a Drama Desk, an Outer Critics Circle, and a Glad Media Award to his name. He's appeared on stage in Spring Awakening, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Hare, La Cage aux Folles, Mary Poppins, The Book of Mormon, She Loves Me, and Hello Dolly, of which he starred alongside stage superstar and icon, Bette Midler. Now he joins Grammy Award-winning musician and leading lady Sara Bareilles in the London production of Waitress at the Adelphi Theatre as Dr. Pomatter, a role he reprises here in the West End after playing it on Broadway. Get ready for some serious pie action and puns as we go sugar butter Gavin. Please welcome to Eleven, Gavin Creel.

[1:07] Gavin Creel: Yes, that was sexy. It's a good introduction. You don't mind the pun, kind of the pie punch.

[1:12] William J Connolly: Oh come on, let's have just give them to me.

[1:14] Gavin Creel: Okay, fine. Smash me in the face with them. How about that? I was gonna say to start with, kind of this show sing you write about in the show, you talk about, you sing about, they even make, but there's no pies anywhere in this building. Like, where are they?

[1:24] Gavin Creel: There are pies in the building.

[1:26] William J Connolly: Where are they?

[1:26] Gavin Creel: They're downstairs on the deck. They're right now they're cutting them up for people to eat on stage. There are a lot of them, obviously, we can't have fresh, it would be cost prohibitive to have real big shiny pie, and they wouldn't look good under the light. So they have some really expensive, beautifully made props, prop pies, but then there are what when people are sitting there eating, they're actually eating. I eat a gluten-free tart in the middle of the show, two bites, and I savour that moment.

[1:56] William J Connolly: Do you just crave pie all the time now because of the show? Because it's kind of constantly on your mind.

[1:59] Gavin Creel: I'm sort of method in that Dr. Pomatter is off sugar, and I sort of am as well at the moment, just trying to get rid of refined sugar out of my diet, which is so boring. Let's just kill this podcast. Let me talk about that a little more. So, no, not too much pie at the moment, no.

[2:13] William J Connolly: Because a story about kind of gynecology and pie.

[2:15] Gavin Creel: Oh god, this is already a bad lead in gynecology and pie, everybody. Oh, how would this work? But yet it works so brilliantly.

[2:22] William J Connolly: It's pretty neat, right? How when people say to you, what is Waitress about, how do you kind of explain it to them?

[2:27] Gavin Creel: You know, not a lot of people ask me that. I guess you are, and I'm gonna tell you now. Let me see what would I say. I would say that Waitress is about the journey of a young woman who doesn't feel so young anymore, who's trying to figure out her way through a life that she did not plan, and then she did not think she would end up here. And I think that what's that's what makes it sort of universal. It's that feeling of like I thought life would be different by now. I thought by this age, by this time in my life, I would be XYZ, I would be higher, better, something. And she's in a bum relationship, and she's working as probably making very little money at a diner in Indiana, which is in the Midwest of our country of America, and she just doesn't see any way forward, she doesn't see a way out of her existence. And I just love watching a very normal person summon tenacity and courage and a voice in the midst of a community that does not encourage her to have one.

[3:33] William J Connolly: Yeah, definitely. That's a really good way to put it. Because I mentioned in the introduction that you'd actually done this show in New York as well, and this is week three, I think, of you being here.

[3:41] Gavin Creel: Yeah, we're just starting. We're just starting week three. Truth, I only did it for four weeks on Broadway. Sarah came in for the last time to that company, and she said, I'm gonna go in for one more month. Will you come and do it with me? And I hadn't was never part of the project before then. We actually sang A Bad Idea at an American Repertory Theater benefit before it started at the American Repertory Theater where it debuted out of town. So that was my I learned the songs and I fell in love with her there. But yeah, I'm gonna have done it two weeks longer than I did in New York. So I feel like I'm I really like this guy. I like his quirk and I like his conflict and his bad decisions and his bad ideas, and I love this music so much. I mean, she's written a score that is just like pop meets musical theater meets emotion, it all of all of it just happening at once in one beautiful pie, if you will.

[4:36] William J Connolly: Thank you. Thank you so much, everyone. How is it getting to sing songs that Sarah's written opposite her as well? Are you like she knows all of this music, she knows where it comes from, she kind of knows how it should be. Is that nerve-wracking? Or I guess you guys are friends, so you're gonna be a little bit more than that.

[4:49] Gavin Creel: Yeah, we're friends, but like honestly, we were in Tesco the other day, and she goes, Hey, you know what I was thinking? Do you want to try this on Monday at in the show? So we're gonna try something new in the show. And I'm like, that's the composer just going, what if we tried doing this slide here between these two notes and don't take a breath there? And we could match up. Because she was on her tour going through the country just before she came here, touring arenas. Like I saw her play Madison Square Garden for 11,000 people, sold out. It was amazing. And her bass player sang You Matter to Me, which is my favorite song she's ever written, and my favorite song on the show. And they did some little ornamentation in the song when they did it on tour.

So she said, What if we try it tonight? I honestly don't remember what it is, so she's gonna have to sing it to me before I get on stage. But that's not how it goes. But Sarah. Sometimes I worry about it. The question is honest, and it's a good question. And thinking like this isn't just a brilliant actress who I'm playing opposite, it's the composer, and once in a while I have a little fun. I like, you know, lick something or riff or take an optional note, and I always wonder if I'm gonna look back at her and she's like, What are you doing? Don't screw up my music. And she's never like that. She's like, change the key to make it fit the person, and if there's something that's gonna make it more exciting, try she's so open to that. It just has to be run by her, of course.

[6:10] William J Connolly: Yeah, of course. She's the boss.

[6:11] Gavin Creel: She's the boss. Yeah. Because I don't want to kind of go on here saying gossip, but when I was looking at some of the things that people have been saying about you in the show, the word naughty and mischievous does sound to come up quite.

[6:21] William J Connolly: Does it really?

[6:21] Gavin Creel: So maybe you're the naughty one. Maybe it's not her.

[6:24] Gavin Creel: It might be. I love that. I am gonna say the end of act one is one of my favorite things to play on stage because Saturday night when we did it, this past Saturday, we tapped into something that we hadn't yet, and we were like, we got done, and we were like, ooh, that was hot. That was really hot. And I'm gay as hell, so like to have a that she did she really did a number on me. So like it was pretty cool. And also, knowing you're in the hands of somebody you can trust like that, she and mine and mine and hers, that sounded dirtier than it should have been. I'm naughty, you know.

[6:56] William J Connolly: Naughty, thank you.

[6:58] Gavin Creel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How does playing it for a second time, but also in I guess a different place, kind of vary to the first time, or are there no differences?

[7:07] Gavin Creel: Well, the West End, that's the question I get asked the most, the difference between Broadway and West End. I know that's not what you asked specifically, but the West End is very I mean, once you're on stage and you're telling the story, it's like I used to say the audiences were quieter. These audiences are mental here. It's so cool. I mean, you're on stage with a rock star, so they're gonna be a little unhinged for her. But I don't know, they're really responsive and excited. Americans tend to be a little more you might call obnoxious and I might call vocal. Never.

[7:40] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[7:41] Gavin Creel: We tend to like just yell and scream and clap and stuff and be loud. But I think I find this time around, getting to do it just deepening and getting it. I mean, normally you'd I've never done a contract this short. It's usually six months or a year. And then you have to go through the discipline of like you deepen and then a few months in, you're like, oh my gosh, I know every corner of this guy, and then you go further, and then you have to get through the discipline of this is boring now, and I have to say it again, and it's like, no, no, no. Boring people are bored. You know, I can make this interesting, and I sort of enjoy trying to get back to what am I saying? What is she saying? What's what do we want, you know?

And then some days I'm just terrible. So I just try to fake it the best I can. But it's not like people know the show. I mean, those fans are obsessed, right? Like they love it and they're very protective of it as well. And I think that's why there's so much excitement, not just about Sarah, but you as well coming here, because people I think are excited to have you back in the West End.

[8:39] Gavin Creel: I'm like really excited to be back. I mean last time I was here was Book of Mormon at the Prince of Wales. And that was we opened, oh my lord, seven years ago, next month, I think. Our first preview was like March 15th or something, maybe beginning of March.

[8:56] William J Connolly: Got a good memory.

[8:56] Gavin Creel: Yeah, I have a terrible memory. I don't know why I remember that. I know it was 2013, I know it was March. It gets crazy to me that was seven years ago. The thought of having to play Elder Price right now, I'd rather eat my own eyeballs. That part almost killed me. It was so hard.

[9:10] William J Connolly: And you are amazing in it.

[9:13] Gavin Creel: That's very kind of you. Thank you. I really enjoyed playing it. And it's one of the greatest, I think one of the greatest written musicals of all time.

[9:21] William J Connolly: Definitely.

[9:21] Gavin Creel: It's so smart, it's so iconic in the way that it tips its hat to so many different musicals, and also the subject matter is so controversial yet also universal at the same time. I just I just love that show. I'm gonna pop over and say hi to the gang when I get some time.

[9:39] William J Connolly: I think I might recognize you.

[9:40] Gavin Creel: Yeah, like get in here, old man. You were too old to play it then, you're definitely too old to play it now. In terms of this show, the subject matter is serious, but it's also very fun as well. It's very much it kind of swings from both sides.

[9:52] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[9:53] Gavin Creel: In terms of the audience's reaction, I'm always interested to see how people react to some of the more difficult scenes in the show, but then also I think find some great relief in realizing that they can apply the success that Jenna has in the show to their lives. How has it been in terms of New York and here, getting to see how the show has affected people's lives? 'Cause it really does translate.

[10:11] Gavin Creel: You're right. That's a great comment. I have to say my in my immediate reaction to what you just said is and this is a London audience. Not that Americans don't listen, but London audiences are really tuned into and silent in the quiet parts and really listening to the point where I feel this subject matter and the arc of her and her discovery, I feel like they're really affected by it here in a really beautiful way. It's just finding someone who is stuck who can't find their way out. You're as the audience going, it's through there. Go, go, you can do it. You're rooting for it. And when she finally finds her voice, I think it's such a cathartic experience for the audience, you know. And you want you want to believe that there's a little Jenna in everybody, and in yourself, there's some part of everybody, I think, that has been like, Oh, I was misunderstood, or somebody treated me poorly, or I wish I'd so if you haven't ever had that chance to find your voice, come find it at Waitress.

You know, like come watch her do it and then leave. I think people do leave here, like going, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna go home and sort myself out, or I'm gonna go home and sort myself out is also kind of dirty, isn't it?

[11:25] Gavin Creel: I'm losing a theme.

[11:27] William J Connolly: Yeah, yeah, I'm naughty. I'm sorry. But I'm gonna go and sort my life out, and then I'm gonna go home and sort myself out. Hey! Can you say that on this podcast? I don't know.

[11:34] Gavin Creel: I mean, you can say anything.

[11:35] William J Connolly: I can say anything.

[11:36] Gavin Creel: Okay, cool. I'll try not to be dirty anymore. Hey everybody, welcome to Waitress. And now you're also working with a certified Grammy winner.

[11:44] William J Connolly: The day before her opening.

[11:45] Gavin Creel: I was gonna say you so you're sat knowing you're going into the show, and then that happens. And then do you think I might as well just not turn up? Like she is like running at home. How did you feel when you found out that she'd won?

[11:54] Gavin Creel: Well, I gotta tell you, you know how I found out is I knew the Grammys were the night before, and I obviously that they start at one in the morning here this time, and I knew she was nominated, but I I don't know why. I just forgot. I didn't, I didn't. And I woke up and had my breakfast, and then she came downstairs because we live in the same building here, and she's like, You want to walk to work? She opened up the door and she's like, Hey, I was like, Hey, what's going on? I won a Grammy. I was like, What? I'm still in shock. I'm in shock that she hasn't won one sooner because she's I think so brilliant. And I think she's the best female vocalist in pop music today. I stand by that. I think she and Adele are like Adele has like that iconic voice.

And I was I was asking my best friend at home. Who else, Celia, is better than Sarah? Like who is like on Sarah's level from singing, a vocalist, like knows how to she's like, yeah, Beyonce? And I was like, okay, fine. Beyonce. Beyonce there too. I just think she's that good. So to be recognized now, and then to have it be on the eve of her West End debut, and the love that came at her from the audience that night, and subsequently every night since it just kept getting better and better.

[13:08] William J Connolly: Yeah, it's exciting.

[13:09] Gavin Creel: Yeah, it's really exciting. Yeah, I'm sharing the stage with the Grammy winner. I'm the gynecologist of a Grammy winner. I look at her Grammy every night. I don't know what that means.

[13:19] William J Connolly: We all know what that means.

[13:21] Gavin Creel: Um obviously you've got Marisha Wallace in the show as well, who returns, who is incredible as well. It's literally just an ensemble of powerful women. It must be like the most liberating thing ever.

[13:27] Gavin Creel: Evie Hawk, who just joined as well.

[13:32] William J Connolly: Yeah, yeah. It must be amazing.

[13:34] Gavin Creel: It is amazing. I think they're kind of quite a dynamic, a terrible trio.

[13:39] William J Connolly: What do you say?

[13:40] Gavin Creel: Terrific trio.

[13:41] William J Connolly: Terrific trio.

[13:42] Gavin Creel: Yeah, they're just I mean, Marisha is so funny. Evie is so funny and also so human and quirky, and Sarah is like this beautiful center to that the three of them.

[13:54] Gavin Creel: And I just feel like you have to see them together while Sarah's here and Marcia is here and Evie's here. They're just dynamic, the three of them. They have such a great and it happened instantly. Like Sarah knew Marisha, obviously, she was in the original company, and Sarah was here putting the show up last year. But we were in the rehearsal room the week before we started, and Evie was in there, and I misunderstood Evie's participation. I thought she was like a swing and she was just there to help us out because she was so good and so like I had no and then at one point I asked her, so you have you yeah, I started a week ago, and I went, wait a minute, what? And then I saw her on stage every night and I go, she's like an old pro.

She's got an old soul in her and she's remarkable. So they're amazing. I saw her in Carrie, and it was like it was insane. Like it was like a religious experience. Was that down in the Crane Cross? Yeah, that near Southwark's near the South players. Oh, okay, okay. It was amazing. She's phenomenal. So yeah, definitely come see, I think. It's a great group. We got the whole cast is great. Everybody's swinging for the fences.

[15:01] William J Connolly: Yeah. That's a baseball reference, for those of you who don't know what that means. I don't know sports either, so I just I'm a douchebag just then. Sorry, moving on. I was very lucky last year to host with Lucy Jones, who plays Jenna here as well. And we hosted a pride-themed karaoke night. And we ended up having my friend Nina West who came to the show Saturday. I was so excited to meet her. She ended up singing, doing a lip sync, should I say, to Lucy Jones singing "She Used to Be Mine." Sarah, we posted it was this amazing. Lucy's singing on stage and then Nina stood there with the microphone, so it meant that it was like vocal gymnastics. It was something pretty amazing. I'll show you the clip. And I was like, isn't "She Used to Be Mine" like the best lip sync song ever? Have you ever tried lip syncing to that? Because I know you sung it. I've listened to you, so it's amazing.

[15:45] Gavin Creel: Oh, thanks. You know, I just did a little arrangement of that and played it on the piano. But no, I don't think I'd be a very good lip syncer. There's a whole chin thing you have to have and the lip and the tongue and the, you know who Lip Synca is? As in Lipsinka, the performance artist? Oh, yes, yeah, yeah. So she is the master at it. She does telephone calls and conversations, and it's like an unbelievable art. So Nina West, I'm gonna leave it to her to crush it. You said something I wanted to comment on. Oh, Lucy Jones and David Hunter. Yes. Like we serve at the pleasure of Lucy Jones and David Hunter. Like they are remarkable. And I'm excited to see Lucy's concert. I've seen clips of her Jenna, but I didn't get to see it live yet.

And I'm hoping we'll be able to see it before we go. But I've seen David, and they're just so good. And it's like it's very intimidating to step into the crocs of David Hunter because I watched him and I was like, oh, he's like a master, a comedic and sensitive and beautiful singer. And yeah, so I had big cracks to fill.

[16:55] William J Connolly: It's so nice. I think when people come to see the show, and it's obviously you get to experience Americans in the roles, get some experience kind of Brits in the role. It feels like we've kind of got the best of everything at the minute.

[17:07] Gavin Creel: Yeah, it feels like one big love in it.

[17:07] William J Connolly: It's cool.

[17:07] Gavin Creel: And everybody's American to me.

[17:15] William J Connolly: Okay.

[17:15] Gavin Creel: I even though my character's from Connecticut. But like, uh, they're doing it, they're taking us there.

[17:21] William J Connolly: Yeah. I just have this kind of vision of you emoting in the wings to Sara Bareilles every night, and "She Used to Be Mine," just being like just like sending it home.

[17:29] Gavin Creel: Well, at the end we stand before we're pushing the bed out, the hospital bed. Nate and I in the cast, and we just listen to her finish, and we're just like, are you kidding me? What are you doing? Like you wrote that, and you sing it like that, and you're dead center of the pitch, and you're sensitive and you're taking your time and you're killing us. Get out. Get out of here. Get out of here. Go bow and get out of here.

[17:48] William J Connolly: So we've mentioned Sarah, we've mentioned Lucy. So I wanted to play a very quick game with you before we take a break. Um, so I wanted to play a game of kind of dream Jennas or unlikely dream Jennas. So um, I've got a couple of names, and I just wondered what you thought about them maybe taking on the role.

[18:02] Gavin Creel: So it's supposed to be.

[18:03] William J Connolly: Okay, now that I don't know what you're about to say. Everyone's listening, I have no idea what's about to come.

[18:07] Gavin Creel: And I'm gonna be honest. I'm gonna try to be nice, but I'm gonna be honest.

[18:11] William J Connolly: So um, okay, let's start at the very top. Okay. Let's go Patti LuPone as Jenna.

[18:16] Gavin Creel: Always Patti can play anything anytime. I'm obsessed with Patti LuPone. I would love to see that. She'd be like, hey Sam, Papa, Buddy's kind, but I don't know. That'd be amazing. That'd be amazing. I'm trying to think of me singing "You Matter to Me" with her, would I die? I'd die with Sarah every night, but I would be dead if Patti LuPone.

[18:32] William J Connolly: How about Adina Menzel as Jenna?

[18:35] Gavin Creel: That's a really good idea. And she's like a mother as well, and I think that would be really good.

[18:43] William J Connolly: Yeah. You know how they're making Mean Girls the musical into a movie?

[18:48] Gavin Creel: I had this crazy idea of maybe Adina Menzel playing Jenna in the Waitress movie musical.

[18:53] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[18:53] Gavin Creel: So that would be like a obviously we want Sarah, was it? But like that could work. If Sarah doesn't want to do it, that's a great choice. But if anyone's gonna do it, I want to see Sarah. I want her to put this performance on film.

[19:08] Gavin Creel: I mean, literally, if you wanted her to sing that teapot over there, I would cast her. She has played your wardrobe in Beauty and the Beast. I mean, anything. These are all such good choices. I'm a fan of every single one of these women.

[19:19] William J Connolly: They're yeah, Audra McDonald can do anything. I wonder if you'll be a fan of this one. How about Gavin Creel as Jenna?

[19:23] Gavin Creel: Never. No way. I have no interest. Uh-uh. I do think I flirt with like the idea of like sometimes I listen to those Earl scenes and I go, what do I gotta get out there and like beat that woman? Like that horrible part. Like that. It's just so hard. Tam is so good, and it's so hard to get out there. And you're like abusive and horrible. And I think, would I want to go there? I don't know how he does it every night. I could do it once and I'd be like, ugh, I don't want to do that again.

[19:50] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[19:50] Gavin Creel: But no, I don't want to play Jenna. No.

[19:52] William J Connolly: I would want to play.

[19:56] Gavin Creel: Go ahead. Throw your ass from your little glass house and then take off running.

[20:02] William J Connolly: To be fair, I'm sure my wish would swap with you, so I bet we could actually.

[20:05] Gavin Creel: Oh my gosh, could you imagine her coming in and be like, uh, I'm your doctor. I'm Dr. Parameter. And you brought a pie. With her big smiley face and her amazing voice. I love it so much. I'm into that. We should do that.

[20:17] William J Connolly: This has turned into something that we might actually be able to make happen, maybe figures covered.

[20:20] Gavin Creel: Okay, yeah. No one will come see that ever.

[20:23] William J Connolly: Just you.

[20:24] Gavin Creel: Me and literally nobody else.

[20:25] William J Connolly: Yeah, exactly. We'll do it for you.

[20:27] Gavin Creel: We'll do it for you.

[20:27] William J Connolly: And Patti LuPone.

[20:28] Gavin Creel: And Patti LuPone.

[20:29] William J Connolly: Yeah, okay. What about Patti LuPone as Becky and then?

[20:32] Gavin Creel: OG.

[20:32] William J Connolly: She'd be a good Ogie.

[20:33] Gavin Creel: Oh, yes. I remember talking to Nina West, and she said very quickly that she would love to play that part. So wouldn't that be a great idea? I was like, how do you make this happen? So I said, we'll talk to Sarah, we'll make it happen.

[20:42] William J Connolly: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Amazing.

[20:43] Gavin Creel: And we're gonna take a break.

[20:44] William J Connolly: We'll be back in 60 seconds.

[20:47] William J Connolly: Welcome back to eleven. Gavin Creel is still with me.

[20:49] Gavin Creel: Hello.

[20:50] William J Connolly: Hi. We were kind of talking about Sarah's awards and how amazing Waitress it is, but you have a pretty impressive set of gongs of your very own.

[20:56] Gavin Creel: Wait, what did you call them?

[20:57] William J Connolly: I was gonna say gongs. That sounds really weird.

[20:59] Gavin Creel: I love it. I love it. Gongs.

[21:01] William J Connolly: It's like the gong at the end of Aquarius.

[21:04] Gavin Creel: I got a couple gongs for you, everybody.

[21:07] William J Connolly: Well, I was gonna ask you where do you keep your gongs, but I don't know if I'm just making this work.

[21:11] Gavin Creel: I know. Naughty pie day. I have a bookshelf at my house that they're just down on the bottom because I don't know, it feels obnoxious to have them up high or anywhere displayed. So if you're there, if you're in my house long enough and you're coming over and sitting in my living room, you might be looking at my books and be like, oh my god, there's a Tony and there's an Olivier. And I have an award for I have two awards for Broadway's best Peter Pan and Broadway's best Will Berternblad. I volunteer with an organization called AHRC where we work with physically and intellectually challenged adults. And we do Broadway shows. The head of the whole program is Dale Hensley. We did La Cage aux Folles together and I met him, and he's a wonderful man, and it's life-changing theater.

And I won two awards with him, playing Peter Pan and Will Berternblad. I'm very proud of those. Those sit next to the Tony in the living room. Because Kate Winslet keeps hers in her toilet, so every time anyone goes in there, she said, they're always in there a long time. So they're there with the Oscar, you know, that's the way that's the place to put it.

[22:06] William J Connolly: I used to put when I was nominated for Thoroughly Modern Millie the first time. I put my nomination plaque in the bathroom, right? Way down low next to the loo roll. Because I thought, well, if you're in here and you come in, you'd be like going for the toilet paper, and you're like, oh my god, that's a Tony nomination certificate.

[22:22] Gavin Creel: Yeah. I gave my mom and dad have my Hello Dolly nomination certificate. My sister Heather has my Hair certificate and my or my Millie certificate and my other sister Alison has my Hair one.

[22:36] William J Connolly: Amazing.

[22:36] Gavin Creel: Does getting those awards ever become normal? Like, do you get like two in and you're like, this is of course this is always weird?

[22:43] Gavin Creel: No, we have a joke. Celia, my best friend, who won for To Kill a Mockingbird last year. We have a joke about how like awards and how much they mean, and they do mean a lot. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna I don't want to be flip about it. It is such an honor. And of course I wanted to win. Of course, I wanted to be recognized, but I dreamt I when I was seven, I dreamt of it. I'd love to win a Tony someday. I'd love to win an Oscar, whatever, blah blah blah. But now that we have been lucky enough to have our name called and make the speech and all that wonderful stuff and dress up, we joke that like, oh, does the Tony make you happy, Celia? She's like, no. And I'd be like, why not? We both look at each other and go, we need two.

Two Tonies. That'll make me happy. And then the joke of the like, if you had two, then you're happy. Norbert Leo Butz is truly happy because yes, you know, it's all BS. It's so funny. And I don't, I don't um again, I don't want to make light of the honor that it is. But I also want to tell anybody who's dreaming like I did when I was seven years old until I got my name called that like hold on tightly, let go lightly. It's like, yeah, dream and then just let it go. Because that's not if that's what you're in for, you should pick another profession because there's way better awards and a lot more money at the end of that light where you could possibly be recognized and be a CEO of a corporation and have 65 million dollar bonus or some nonsense. I don't know. I made that up.

[24:09] Gavin Creel: Hi everybody. I always imagine ultimate donor with a six just has most doll stops. You have too many. What do I do with these? I went to her house, and I'm not kidding. There was one the day that I was there, she was like, oh, here's one, here's one, here's one. Oh, there's one there. She's like, and she wasn't like that. Here's one, here's one. That's not her at all. We were and she was like really kind of stressed out about the fact that she goes, oh crap. Because you can't, you have to sign a contract and that you'll never give it away or lose it, and that and it's numbered, and it's like a whole thing.

[24:46] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[24:46] Gavin Creel: It felt very fancy after when after the Tonys were over, and they it came in a box, and I was like, oh, I open it up, it's engraved, and then there's a number under it. My numbers, I probably shouldn't say, I don't know if that's illegal or not. I don't know. But it's there, and yeah.

[25:00] William J Connolly: It's amazing.

[25:01] Gavin Creel: It's amazing.

[25:01] William J Connolly: And looking at those two awards acceptance speeches, who knew that Gavin Creel was a style icon?

[25:06] Gavin Creel: The girl.

[25:06] William J Connolly: Oh my blue.

[25:07] Gavin Creel: The Tony Awards one, I was obsessed with.

[25:09] William J Connolly: Thank you.

[25:10] Gavin Creel: It's a little bit more. Jeez, I'm messing his name up. Milan Breton. Crap, I'm gonna mess up his name. I have to look it up. Um, he built constructed the whole thing, and Jeff Mashee designed it. Jeff Mashee was the costume designer for She Loves Me. And he's a friend of mine. And whenever I have to, I have you know, I like to take risks with style. I've failed miserably, look up pictures of me in the opening of the Tony Awards for the hair. Oh my god, I look like a train wreck. And that was made for me too, and it was beautiful, but my hair was terrible. I look like I'd anyway, moving on. But that night I said, I want to, I wanna, I really enjoyed um I like dressing up and being wild for a night like that. It was so much fun. That was my second favorite, most second favorite part of that evening.

[25:57] William J Connolly: It's pretty great.

[25:58] Gavin Creel: Does it translate to day-to-day life? Do you get dressed up or you're not really that bothered about fashion?

[26:02] William J Connolly: Look at me now.

[26:03] Gavin Creel: You look good.

[26:04] William J Connolly: What are you talking about?

[26:04] Gavin Creel: You were like, oh, I looked at those of you who can't see, this is not visual. I am in a stretched-out theory t-shirt that I think someone gave me as a present, and I'm wearing the same I bought I bought these jeans on Amazon. Oh, and I do have these like kind of future shoes, they're called Ufoos and they save my life. Look them up. They're called OMGs. But I literally I don't know. I love I love when someone else buys me something that's great, and I go, I'll take that.

[26:30] William J Connolly: You're gonna end up with just loads of clothes at stage door now.

[26:33] Gavin Creel: Come on, saying that.

[26:33] William J Connolly: Come on, okay.

[26:34] Gavin Creel: I don't like prints, I just like simple salads. I'm a medium just to cut down the side.

[26:39] William J Connolly: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[26:41] Gavin Creel: One thing I want to talk about is your openness about your sexuality. So you have been open pretty much through all of your career.

[26:48] Gavin Creel: The truth is I didn't come out until Hair. I didn't come out professionally. I mean, a lot of people who knew me knew I was gay, but like there was an interview I did for Out magazine, it was in The Advocate first that Justin Ocean did, I think it was his name. Lovely guy, and he was asking me questions about Claude, and it was kind of hinting around, do you have any relation to Claude's struggle for his identity or anything? And I was like, oh, I'm doing this, I'm doing this now. There was no and what was weird, it made a little bit of news for like a half an afternoon. Yeah, where like it was on AP wire, and I just thought, I'm who am I? And that they made this made news. It was before Instagram and all that. And I thought, oh, it's because we need to come out. We need to like tell people who we are so that it doesn't have any power anymore. And I like to think that social media and Instagram is kind of doing that.

[27:35] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[27:36] Gavin Creel: Now where people are just like, I'm gay, moving on. Yeah, I'm trans, I'm bi. I'm or not, we're not saying bi anymore, apparently. We're saying pansexual, is that right?

[27:44] Gavin Creel: Somebody told me heteroflexible. Okay. Because bye is obviously on the binary, and yeah, you know, I'm learning all kinds of things. I have no idea. I make many mistakes, but I try. Yeah, definitely. And I also think it's important as well that when people do come out, they forget about the power of someone else watching you do that act, and you think even if they don't come out or they're struggling with their own identity or their sexuality, they see someone else do it. And I think that's what's important is that we're teaching other people even without realizing we're teaching. That's probably why you've got a little bit of um why people are kind of picking up on it and talking about it, making it news because it is a powerful act even today.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. It's really important, yeah. Um, in terms of conversations you've had with fans, do they ever talk to you about their sexuality? Have they ever kind of been inspired by you in the way that you've been open and honest? Some of yes, some of the most inspiring conversations I've had as of late. I wrote a song called For Nancy, which I made a record in the first song. I was like, my first song. My buddy Robbie Roth and I made this the first two records, my first two records together, and it was a song about coming out to my mother, and he wrote the tune and the first stanza. Okay. And he was like, Can you finish this song? I think this could be an important song.

It was his idea. And I was like, Yes. And we finished it, and then we were putting the set or the what you call track list together. Yep. What order? And I'd never made a record, and I was so excited, and like, oh my gosh, what is the first thing I want people to hear? And I was like, that I want them to know who I am from the jump. And that song has made um an impact to fans of mine and people. They've come up to me and I've gotten letters. I mean, Sara, I know has this ad nauseam with brave, and but on a very small level with my little indie record, I've had people write me letters and say, I didn't kill myself because you taught me how to talk to my parents about coming out of the closet with that song, and I just played it for them, and then I could have the conversation.

And I'm like, Wow, that's my work here is done. Yeah, and that wasn't about me trying to like I want to be a leader. I mean, I do love being a leader. I love standing up for marriage equality when we fought for it and starting Broadway Impact, which was mobilizing the theater community to fight for that. But that was just about I want to make a record. I want to make music that is honest and fun. And I called it Good Time Nation because I want people to listen and have for 39 minutes just feel like, oh, this is such a good time. This is so fun. And you listen from start to finish, and I put it in that order before when I thought people listen to albums and people listen to singles, and I went, well, if you want to just press play.

And it's the 15th anniversary of the record, and we're gonna do a concert in New York next year. Wow, yeah. 15. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. I know. I was two when I started. Yeah. Um, but there was something else I wanted to tell you about that. It'll come back to me. It'll come back. TBC. We'll come back to it. Yeah, TBC. Well, it seems like a really good link because um we spoke about you didn't book of Mormon here, and obviously you were in Waitress at the moment. The other show that you did in the West End was Hair. And you got to work with a soon-to-be real life ice princess in Casey Levy. Like I spoke to Casey Levy, and I've watched the videos, and I saw her in Ghosts, and I saw her in Hair.

And even today, I think, is she actually human? The voice? Like it's ridiculous. Like is it? It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous for two reasons. And this is my expertise talking. When you listen to that woman's voice, the first time I heard it was in the lobby. We were learning the songs. Sasha Allen, who also has one of the greatest voices on the planet. Sasha Allen, Casey Levy and I were joining the company, and the rest of the company was coming the next day. We were sitting in the lobby, and Casey started singing, Good morning, Starshine. And she has this warmth that happens not in her nose as in it's nasal, but she has this openness in her um in the front part of her that is warmth. Like I've never heard in a voice.

And the second part is she can also peel the paint off the ceiling of a room with that unbelievable forward point of her belt. And it's remarkable how she does it. When I saw when we went to watch Sarah host the Tony Awards, and it's the crime of crimes, it's Casey was not nominated for her work in that, neither was Patty, and they were both so good in Frozen. But she got up there and rose up through the floor and sang the back half of Let It Go at the end of their montage. I was I stood up in the in Radio City Music Hall, and I was like, that was the performance of the night right there. And then she had this gorgeous dress on, and we saw each other at the after party at the Carlisle Hotel, and I was just like, oh, my cast is getting here.

You might hear a little bit of noise. They're a little bit wild. I'm gonna have to tell them to shut up. Um, but she she killed it, she crushed it. Yeah, I was so proud. That's a naughty. And then you go from Casey and all the other amazing people that you've worked with to working with Icon Bette Midler. I mean, and you're on the album, I was literally listening to it on the way here, and you're and I was thinking, I'm gonna talk to the man that literally is singing with Bette Midler, which I know doesn't even seem right for me to even have that conversation with myself. Oh, it's just I I can't, I still can't believe it. I can't believe it's done, I can't believe it happened. Um I'm so glad she came back at the end of the run into those last six weeks, so we got to like experience it one more time, and I also got to work with Bernadette Peters and Donna Murphy, like these like theater legends and international legends, like like they're just their influence is so far-reaching.

But Bette Midler is truly every single lane in entertainment she is placed first in, you know, she has done everything, and it's remarkable to watch her work ethic and her seriousness. She's so serious about what she does, and I loved every second of it. I did. I mean, it's from her yelling at me, not yelling, yelling, but like yelling, you're stepping off the stage when when it was like the tape markings on the floor when we were rehearsing. And I looked up at her and said, Oh, I don't pay attention to those until we get on set. And she says, why not? We're not gonna step off the stage. And I was like, okay, fine. To her walking upstairs with her like turban on and her like skinny jeans and her cashmere sweater holding a bottle of unbelievable tequila, and her going, like, who wants tequila?

You know, like at a party we threw in our hallway, and it just just knowing her as a human being is such a thrill. And I have a huge piece of art that she gave me for opening night that hangs in my house that I'll have for the rest of my life. And know that Bette gave me that. That's from that's when Bette we're on the first yeah. On the back, I tape the thing on the back and it says, Gavin, you're the greatest. Love Bette. And I'm like, I mean, for the rest of my life, it's just I still can't see I'm gonna like cry or laugh or barf or something, just saying it. I'd literally be buried with that. That's coming with it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No one else is having fun. I'm gonna be laid on top. It's a really big, it's like seven foot piece of art.

Um, and I'm just gonna lay my dead body on it and then shove me out to sea, and that'll be my little draft out to the heavens. Thank you, Bette. That's camp. And it's better. That is so camp. And I love the fact that that superstars of her stature and her size are coming to the stage and feel at home at the stage. And this is happening in the West End at the moment. I mean, I know Mel DeStaunton's obviously playing Bette's role here, and I know that she's obviously an icon of the stage here, but she's very huge in films as well. And she's gonna be the queen in the fifth season of The Crown. Yes, yes. How exciting is that? It's crazy. And I love the fact that people really understand now, I think more than ever the importance of theater, and that feels like real progression, I think, everywhere.

Well, I have to say that's thanks to you. You're teaching those people and a young generation to give a crap about the theater. If it weren't for programs like this or talking about it, or you know, there's most people don't know who I am, and getting to have a moment to chat is really nice to be able to talk about. I mean, theater people know who I am, maybe, but like it's exciting. I thank you. Thank you. You're very welcome. I try my best. Okay, we just thank you. We've literally got a couple more minutes, so I'm gonna um play another game with you. Okay, good. So um I'm gonna do a quick fire round again. So I'm gonna say the name of the shows that you've been in. Okay. And I want you to say just a couple of words about your lasting memory of that show.

So what it meant to you. Okay. Okay, so um, one of my favorite shows ever, La Cage aux Folles. Um Danny Davis. That's that's the thing that comes to mind. He's a lifelong friend of mine and has been such an amazing influence in my life. Yeah. Amazing. Uh Hello, Dolly! Um Bette, Bernadette and Donna did it but uh also I want to say um my progressive Christmas party. I'm just gonna leave that out there. Oh, okay. Legendary. Uh Spring Awakening. Oh my gosh. Um, getting to sing Duncan Sheik's score was paramount to my development as a contemporary theater singer. I loved that experience. Um one of your faves, Thoroughly Modern Millie. Oh, um, Sutton, Sutton, Sutton, Sutton all day long Sutton. I'm I never until Sara, I'd never had chemistry like that on stage.

I've had amazing co-stars, and I love all of them. But it was next level, and Sara is taking it to the next level for me. It's like it's weird. Um Hair. Best show I've ever done. Really? Yeah. My favorite show I've ever done. I've said this in interviews before, but when I die and I'm pushed out on that painting by the uh the heavens will open and I will get to go. My my two steps. I'm gonna get to sit in a chair and say hi to all the people I missed, and then we'll all go to the Al Hirschfeld Theater, and I'll go in the stage door and everyone will be there, and they'll get half hour call and it will be we'll do it again, and everyone will be there. It'll be like, that's my dream of heaven.

You've really thought about this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm dream I'm secreting it. You know the secret, yeah, Rhonda Byrne. Yeah, like I'm literally manifesting my death. That my death will be met with joy and reunion of friends, and then we all go to Hair and it just never ends. It was just magic. Amazing. Yeah, amazing. Um, Mary Poppins. I just saw it on Thursday. Okay, and I watched Charlie Stemp, who we did Hello, Dolly! together, and Zizi Stralin, both of them were amazing, and all the cast and crew, everybody was amazing. But I can't believe I did that. Like, I and there's a lot of stuff he's added in that I did not do, and there's no chance I could ever have done because Charlie's a crazy dancer.

But I did 90% of what he's doing on that stage, and I cannot believe I ever did that. And I don't think the people who put me into the show ever did either. They were like, I don't know if he can do this. And it was also the thing that brought me back to musical theater. I was burnt out, I was ready to quit before that show. And Mary Poppins literally brought me back to life. I'm so grateful to Tom Schumacher and to Cameron freaking Mackintosh. That that man, those men changed my life. Um, a small off, off, off Broadway show called The Book of Mormon. Yeah, that tiny little gem. Um, vocal dress. No, I that that it's I have PTSD from that show. I tell the producers all the time, Scott Rudin and Anne Garfino, I'm like, I love you both.

You've literally again changed my every every show has changed my life, but they changed my life. Casey Nicholaw, I would forever indebted to him for including me in that. All the people involved. But I was three and a half years in that show, and by the end I was like, oh, I knew I can't breathe. It was amazing, but so hard. Um, a show that I watched very regularly on maybe in a legal stream website. But anyway, She Loves Me, which I love. That was a neat, that was a neat step outside of roles that I normally get to play, and I was really proud of what I did, and I was really glad that they let me take a stab at it. Because I see myself more as a George, and I think I would love to play George someday.

Um, but it was really fun to get to do that. And I I've never seen the tape, but people say it looks really good. Oh the costumes. When the second you said the costumes in relation to Antonio, I was like, yes, it makes sense. Isn't he remarkable? Yeah, he's remarkable and the kindest, smartest, and he comes from the fashion world. He works at Donna Karan, I think now, and but his style is unmatched. Jeff Mahshy baby. It's so good. Yeah. Um and finally, what I'm gonna let you go do very, very shortly, which is Waitress. Sugar butter, flour. Uh I am gonna say this if this is controversial, it is it's my second favorite theatrical next to Hair. Oh, okay. It is, it is I've loved them all, but and it's because of one Sara Bareilles, not just what she wrote and what she created and how she collaborated with Diane and Nadia and Lauren and everybody on the team and Jesse Nelson who wrote this beautiful story, and and and Adrian Shelley, who wrote the beautiful story, and this who is the angel that looks over this entire project.

Um, but for me it's it's Sara all day long, and and I'm gonna say it here that we're gonna do a new show together. Um we're just we're just uh crafting what it's gonna be, but we're gonna play opposite each other in a new show. Wow, that'd be amazing. Yeah, that'll be so so good. Yeah, I'm excited. I feel like this podcast was originally just gonna be called your name, but actually we just call it the Sara Bareilles Loving. That's all I'm saying. I'm telling you, I'm telling you. I'll do I I'm I will do anything for her and and till the rest of my life. Yeah. Yeah, that's a promise. I promise. Um Gavin, an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Um you're here in Waitress in London's West Center until the 7th of March. 7th of March. That's it. And the show's remarkable, and you are average. I'm trying. I'm I just try. I try my best. Um, I'm joking. Thank you so much for being on Eleven. Thank you.

[41:15] William J Connolly: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at ClubEleven.london or via our official social channels.