This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tye Blue: My name is Tye Blue and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:15] William J Connolly: Bonjour, diva, and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. He's the Olivier-winning director and co-writer of the smash hit Titanic, which is about to celebrate its first anniversary in London and Broadway is set to sail this spring. So here in an exclusive conversation, letting us inside his brilliant unhinged mind, he reveals how his first love for the ultimate Canadian music icon helped build a global theatrical phenomenon. And with chest pumps at the ready, we dive into the show's key development stages from cut songs and jokes that didn't survive the final draft, to the iconic leading ladies who have helped steer this production around the world, and why no two performances aboard the ship of dreams are ever the same.

We also unpack some of the joyful chaos of the now infamous improv section of the show, share some highlights of his favourite and most outrageous moments from the original Celine and co-creator Marla Mindel, and he explains why punching up is always essential when making a show like this, and how Titanic always aims to honour the lives lost on that fateful day. Plus how a bottle of wine and a what-if launched Broadway dreams, the alternative titles that nearly happened for the show, and what he thinks Celine Dion herself would make of it all. So join me as we do say bonjour diva to the genius of Tye Blue, here now on this the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[1:55] William J Connolly: Please help me welcome to this the next episode of Eleven. He's the genius director and co-author behind the smash hit Titanic that's got us all falling further and further in love with Miss Celine Dion in the ultimate hit comedy musical, and now the Olivier winning mind is here to tell me all about it, so I say Tye Blue, bonjour diva, ça va?

[2:11] Tye Blue: Bonjour Ramin, I'm doing well, how are you?

[2:17] William J Connolly: I do very well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this, I'm genuinely very excited because I make no apologies, I fucking love Titanic, I am obsessed. So questions in a second, give me a little bit of a temperature check, this show has taken over the world, audiences cannot get enough of it, where is your mind at at the minute? The global takeover is happening, Titanic is becoming a real cultural hit, how are you feeling about that?

[2:44] Tye Blue: Well, first of all, thank you for your support and your addiction and proselytizing the fact that is Titanic. Today, on the day that we're doing this, my head is in a very odd place, you know, there's lots of layers, because yes, we just closed New York after a three-year run, and like I'm at peace with that, you know, that was a really crazy thing that we never expected to happen, and so it's like we can put it in a bow and set it on a shelf, and I feel good about that. The thing that feels weird is that while London is still going strong, New York is closing, Chicago is closing, Australia just closed, Paris is about to close, so it's like four Sundays of closings, which is a lot to kind of like feel, you know what I mean?

But on the other hand, London will be the lone ranger out there going pretty strong, it seems, so it's also great to be able to just like focus my energy on the one again, because let me tell you something, like having like five, six happening at the same time is fucking hard, it's like very hard to give enough of yourself to each one, you know what I mean? So in that way, I'm like at peace with being able to focus my time and energy on the one.

[3:56] William J Connolly: At any one point, how many productions did you say there were in the world running simultaneously? Was it five or six?

[4:01] Tye Blue: Oh god, I don't, I told you, I don't do math. We had New York, Australia, Canada, London, Chicago, Paris, there was a moment that we had six running for a couple months, a few months, which I was told, somebody's like, you know, you guys have more productions running now than Hamilton, and I was like, oh shit, okay, well then, like stats like that trigger my brain and make me think like, oh god, okay, we did really like make something special then.

[4:38] William J Connolly: Very expected to be able to lean into, of course, we want these things to run forever and ever and ever, but to be able to achieve that, at that level of success, when, as you've spoken so openly and honestly, this came from just a love of Celine Dion, to be able to have that level of success, when was the moment in that journey, or perhaps it's not even happened so far, where you went with these six productions at the varying different stages that they were at, and the overwhelming sense of love that I know that you felt, and we'll talk about the awards and accolades that it's received critically in a second, but to be able to feel that and have that, was there ever a moment where you went, I am part of a very important team that has done this, and were you able to reflect inwards and almost be proud of yourself for being able to do that, because as you say, more than Hamilton, which I'm sure is true, that's a huge achievement.

[5:04] Tye Blue: You know, one moment that really sticks out for me, that was kind of a creative pivot point for me, was I went to Vegas, and I met face-to-face with Celine's producers and manager, and they were so complimentary, and they just said, you know, everyone is loving your show, all we're hearing is great things about it, and that people who we know who go to see it say, you can really tell these kids love her so much. They were so gracious that in a time when she was really struggling with her health and was canceling all of her shows, they really deeply appreciated that we were, in a way, keeping her brand in the zeitgeist, and in a way, kind of keeping her boat afloat, pardon the pun, but in that moment of being so welcomed by them, that's when I was like, oh, wait a minute, we are actually out here doing peripheral sort of like brand ambassador type work on behalf of her and James Cameron, frankly, and so at that point, I kind of started taking it a little more serious in terms of how we represent this catalog of songs, how we represent Celine on stage in the show and in marketing collateral, because I always want it to be something that she and her team love, because frankly, they could have shut us down, you know what I mean?

They could have been like, thank you so much, that was great, but they actually then weeks later came to the show with me and sat with me, and I was so nervous to sit next to her manager, but I could see him and his husband getting, they were laughing their asses off, first of all, but then also like holding hands and getting emotional and following the story, and he, John, came backstage afterwards, and I invited him back to kind of surprise the cast and talk to them, and he spoke to them with such gravitas about what it meant to get to hear these songs again, which they were accustomed to hearing for so many years every night. He got very emotional with the company, and it just sort of reiterated the fact that we are utilizing someone else's career to prop this show up, and that this is something that carries weight for someone very special, so that was, to me, that was a big personal shift where I was like, oh no, we're like affiliated with her brand now, officially.

[7:28] William J Connolly: Was there a point then, because this show came from the love that you have for her, and as you said so on, it was about creating laughter and fun and joy with your circle of friends, that when it did go up to the level in LA, or perhaps when New York, you knew that was going to happen, was that the deciding moment for you where you did, as you say there, start to take it a touch more seriously that this was becoming part of the very wider peripheral of Celine's life, but also that people were really on board that this wasn't just a few people very successfully having a joke with each other, this actually was a genuine thing that had legs that really could set sail?

[8:01] Tye Blue: It's tricky. Once we did our Off-Broadway deal, and we started planning for the very first Off-Broadway iteration, famously known as the basement version, at that point I had to really turn on my brain and be like, all right, girl, this is your chance to show people that this is way more than a skit. The vocals, the comedy, the lighting, the sound. I wanted people to come down into this cheeky little basement to see a parody, but I wanted to blow them away by having that silly flimsy parody operate on all cylinders. So that was always my goal, to make it more than what people expected it to be. But to be fair, those early days in that basement, it didn't sell very well, friends. I would show up the first month of performances, and a third of the venue would be empty, and there were only 160 seats.

It wasn't clear in the early days. It took several major press hits, and frankly, a huge podcast, Las Falsheristas, they just kept mentioning us offhand, and that started selling tickets. And then you could not get a ticket. At like month two of performances, you could no longer get a ticket to it. And in that moment, when that started picking up, that's when I think we were like, oh wow, this is now bigger than this venue. How big is it going to be?

[9:22] William J Connolly: So how was it the first time you saw some of the options that Michael Harrison Productions brought for that London production? Because it feels like Titanic has had a facelift, the Botox has kicked in, because that screams money, I'm not gonna lie. I was like, oh okay, she's got money now, does she?

[9:36] Tye Blue: Well, here's the thing. There was only one other theater that we were looking at, and they really wanted the Criterion, and then we thought we had it, and then we didn't, and then we thought we had it, then we didn't. And it was just like a jigsaw puzzle, but I actually did not see the room until I arrived. And no, that's not true. I went and saw Two Strangers, and I fell in love and thought, oh my god, this is stunning. And I feel like I'm actually in the inside of the Titanic. I was blessed with the opportunity to go from Off-Broadway to Australia, which was a nightclub venue, which was a little different, then to Canada, which was a massive venue with lots of tech, and we really got to spend some time on that and see what the bigger version could be before landing in London with a much better budget and spreadsheet. And so I just tried to elevate it every time, and I felt like I had a good amount of support to get it looking like it looks there. Thank you, Michael Harrison.

[10:34] William J Connolly: You referenced a second ago about development and how the different venues change, perhaps some of the direction and some of the pacing, particularly the comedy, which the comedy obviously leads from the front with the genius of this creation. It feels like when you see different versions of Titanic, and actually when you see different women in particular playing Céline, that it does feel like there are shifts in the show. So would you be able to talk to me about how, you know, is it a deliberate decision that Titanic never quite has a set model that it sticks to indefinitely? And perhaps is that an exciting or slightly terrifying thing for you? Because it's dictated to you by the person that sort of leads all the space that it's in.

[11:04] Tye Blue: Here's the thing, I used to be a performer, right? And nothing made me more crazy than having to do the exact same thing with my body and my voice eight times a week. And I think that doing that with shows and making them like super, super, super locked in causes them to lose a lot of heart. You know, you go to watch a long running show after a few years, and it's like, what? No one is enjoying themselves up there because they're trying to, you know, keep their left toe on 2.5 and face 13 degrees to the left. You know what I mean? And raise your voice on the word. So it's, um, there is an essence of wanting it to be sort of alive every night and feel fresh for the audience every night, but also authentic.

And I like to hire people who bring a really great sense of authenticity to the roles while paying respect and homage to Celine, for example, you know, the accent has to be somewhat there. The look has to be somewhat there. The heart, the vulnerability and the silly, kooky storytelling has to be.

[12:41] William J Connolly: And like interesting comes into a part. I want to tailor it to them and you'll notice his performance is quite different than Stephen's who came before and I love that. But that's not always the case, is it? I think with directors is that you almost have to put an extra level of trust in the great comedian, the great talent that you have and I imagine for you, you probably almost worked backwards and that they remind you that you need to let them do their thing as well when they perhaps bring options. And I've had the pleasure of interviewing many of the ladies that have played Céline before or Rose and they all talk about the fact that it's so terrifying at the start because you want to do a great job but also you find this wonderful middle ground with them though it feels authentic that they can bring themselves through and they all talk about the joy of that, the fact that it's exciting to go to work.

And to your point of you don't want to have people stand on certain points, it feels like maybe that's why this show is so successful and it's so funny consistently even on matinees, even six months into a run, even three years into a run, it's because you lean into that. Have you found that actually allowing actors to be actors is probably one of the great strengths of this show?

[13:41] Tye Blue: I've not really thought of it in that way, but it has become a part of our brand, I think our tone, that there's a bit more freedom and there's a bit more presence and authenticity in how people are performing. But listen, because I used to do it for a living, I understand the job and I also understand that like I'm hiring you to bring something special to this. It's not my job to tell you every single thing that you need to know how to do as an actor. It's my job to just be like I'm going to shape this edge and I'm going to shape this edge and this needs to be faster and you know what I mean? Like I'm all about hiring the right person who brings a lot of it to the table innately and then just shaping where it needs to be shaped.

[14:25] William J Connolly: Is there ever a moment then the total opposite of that where the kooky and the crazy go a bit too far and you go, I don't remember that being in my show?

[14:34] Tye Blue: Oh, it happens all the time. That's the hard part is like I'll get messages like, did you approve this? Did you approve this? Did you see this happen? Do you know this is happening? So I do then have to come in and be like, that's not, I don't like that. This feels off tone, this feels disrespectful, this feels too cynical, you know, this is making the scene too long, stop hogging the scene, you know what I mean? So it demands more maintenance from me and from my associates, but I think that what you get from that is when you let people feel invested in what they're doing every night, they're going to give you a better performance, they're going to be way more happy to be at work and I think they also take notes better when you do have to kind of rein it in a little bit. What happens is you both end up in a place that you both feel great about.

[15:23] William J Connolly: I'm trying to imagine a scenario where you would be able to give some feedback to Marla that an improv session had perhaps gone too far because I've seen bum sniffing and everything and I'd love to help with this to that note section.

[15:37] Tye Blue: Yeah, I think I don't think I've ever noted Marla in improvs. She doesn't really need noting and I, you know, we built it in there for her to go off the rails and people love it. That's one moment where it can really like kind of, as long as it's not too long or too polarizing, I'm good. Those are my two things. I think my favorite ones that I've had the pleasure of seeing were she did the bum sniffing with Connie. That was the first time I ever saw it and I told her about that at the London opening. She was like, I got told off for that one. I was like, okay. And then Fiera audition was another favorite TikTok dances. I mean, I've seen it all and I can imagine there has been some pretty wild ones for you. How kooky crazy does it actually get? What are perhaps some of the ones that you think, I know that that's one of my favorites. I'm so glad that I got the chance to bear witness to that improv section.

[16:26] Tye Blue: Well, I'll tell you what happened at closing in New York. Marla made Connie, this might even be online, you could probably go watch this, but she basically ripped Jamie Lloyd, which probably was not smart given that we share a producer and he's popping off way more than we are. But she made Connie do an improvised monologue as Ava Perrone, which was very funny. And then, you know, the things that pop into the right and to the left were like Tempte Boulevard and Evita Bowls choices that are redundant that, you know, the man bowing and it's anyway, she kind of ripped that to shreds on Sunday night for closing, which I'm sure that exists somewhere. Hopefully Jamie Lloyd, Angela Gweber and Michael Harrison ever see them.

Hopefully also there was one time I have to tell you, Stephen, who originated Ruth here in London had a joke in for a while about Devil Wears Prada and how he slept through it or something or how the investors were unhappy. And Jamie Wilson was at our opening and then days later I had a meeting with Jamie and he was like, yeah, so you got that punch in there. So there are some risks, there are some risks at hand, but you know, it's not, I feel like as long as we're punching up, yeah, I think we're safe because in my mind we're always like the outsider underdog, 100%. But also punching up is good comedy. You're a bad comedian if you're not punching down.

[18:00] William J Connolly: So yeah, it shows the genius of the people you've got. Yeah, Jamie Wilson was like, and by the way, the investors of the Devil Wears Prada are quite happy. I said, I heard, sir, heard. By the way, I don't know if you're aware of this, you probably are, but at the opening, you know when they say, um, Ruth says, ah, they're lying about, they're all the Pussycat Dolls, but none of them are Nicole Scherzinger. Ashley Roberts was sat in front of me. Oh, from the Pussycat Dolls was sat in front of me and I was watching the shoulders and I was like, I don't know if she's laughing or not. I think she was maybe chuckling.

[18:39] Tye Blue: Oh my god, I hope so. Hopefully one can laugh at themselves. I feel like even if someone's like dragging you all the way down, at least you're in the conversation, you know what I mean? Like at least you're being thought of. If eleven is gonna get cancelled, this will be because of you and these lines. This is gonna, you're gonna take me down with you.

[18:55] William J Connolly: But in a similar vein to that, one of the great geniuses of this show is it really does push the boundaries of what you expect Céline Dion to say and perhaps also around the Titanic. I think it's very, very, very well placed. I think it very much sits on the line, but it never crosses it. And again, that is the genius of your work. And I wondered, were there any things in relation to the Titanic or perhaps Céline Dion that you thought, I know there are no-goes? Like where did you draw the line in the Titanic and I think it's like where did you draw the line in terms of the level of respect versus perhaps we are slightly taking the piss here?

[19:31] Tye Blue: Yeah, I mean there definitely were like a good handful of things over time. What the first thing that really comes to mind that happened in the beginning was in an early draft, Marla wanted to make fun of a time that Céline was on Larry King. There was a hurricane in New Orleans and Katrina and Céline came on Larry King live and did a very tearful interview that we're still emotional that the English was like extra broken and like Marla had in an early draft kind of using that in a way and making fun of that in a way and it just felt like to me that was disrespectful in a way that if I was a member of Céline's team and I came to see this show, I'd be like, oh, that's not kind. So I mean, I cut that.

There are certain phrases that like we had in the show, like I don't, I changed. Céline doesn't say die. She says everyone was gone rather than everybody died. So there's a lot of little like syntax and things like that where we say things in the most graceful and elegant way that we can. She doesn't say a lot of first words. She does say Céline fucking Dion, but there are moments. There was something else that had just come to mind, but I, but I, well, one thing that we don't do, one thing that we don't do is ever try to let people's minds get too close to the real incident, you know, because this was a tragedy and many people did die and there are descendants who had to kind of live with a lot of trauma from this.

And so, you know, the reason it's a concert, the reason they're not on an actual boat, the reason the actual event is never recreated is because I never want people's minds to ever go to that place. I want them to stay in like fun pop comedy concert space and so we always avert from anything that could feel sad or dangerous and keep it cheeky. And also the props, I've made all the props very silly so that anytime they connect to an actual tragic event, we're not thinking about the pain that someone might have gone through. We're thinking about, oh, that's a hot pink steering wheel.

[21:41] William J Connolly: Is that also why things like the ship's captain is Victor Garber, the actor from the film, as opposed to like the real ship's captain? Obviously, the costumes are the same, but there's also at the very end when she sings, you know, everyone was gone, so I decided to sing the famous song. And at the beginning, it's also like there's no way you could have been around, but let's make it that you were. So it's almost like, you know, this is false before you've even started it. Like that's deliberate, right?

[22:05] Tye Blue: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's also just like how can we as showbiz people comment on the film? You know, that's why the Victor and the designer are amalgamated into the famous actor's name because that's like a shorthand for showbiz people, right? But yeah, I think we had to structure it in a way that was innately ludicrous and that comes from the fact that Céline tells crazy stories, you know.

[22:34] William J Connolly: Why wouldn't she tell a story where she thought she might have been there? Were there any parts of the film that you knew you absolutely had to include? Are there any parts that you were like, I'd love to put that in, but it didn't quite work with the narrative that perhaps you were going with the heartbeat of the show?

[22:47] Tye Blue: For me, the heartbeat of the show is Rose's journey. You know, I tell new actresses that are new cast members that are coming in that for me, this is really about a very feminist dance about a woman taking control of the choices that she has in front of her. And so I always want the flirtation between her and Jack to be rooted in some real sort of, you know, emotional butterflies and I want the love story and the nostalgia of the film to always have a current in this play because I think we need a little bit of that to keep it grounded. And so I try to make Rose be tonally the rock of the show so that we deliver on the nostalgia of the love story, but also because if she's Céline, it's then Céline remembering the best moment of her life.

And so I think that she would want us to see Rose in the most delicate, beautiful, thoughtful way, right? And so that in terms of like capturing the film, I always say we have to deliver on the nostalgia of the hit 1997 classic Titanic, right? And so to me, that's the love story and the love triangle, if you will, which is where I try to get it from. But everything else around Rose is madness.

[24:06] William J Connolly: Is that why you chose this particular name? Because it was the same but different?

[24:11] Tye Blue: I chose this name because I wanted it to be instantly recognizable and I just wanted it to be what Céline would say. That's all. That's all it is. We, because we talked about calling it like...

[24:22] Tye Blue: Titanic, a Celine Dion parody, blah, blah, blah, blah. We had all these like, you know, versions of that that we were playing around with. And I was like, why don't we just say Titanic the way Celine would say it? And then it was from there, it was just done. What do you think? You don't realize when you're making decisions like that, that it's going to be put all over the world, by the way. It was a lucky thought that popped into my mind. And we just went with it as were many of the things that people like about the show. We've just been very fortunate.

[24:49] Tye Blue: Maybe it's the journalist in me, but I'm always interested about how things become end products. I love the fact that this show continues to change. It's like just the creative part of my mind. I'm like, yeah, but why did they choose that? And why did they choose that? And I would love if you would be happy to share, like, were there any other names that you were like, that nearly happened? And does the same also apply with the songs? Were there any that got away that you thought, ah, damn, I'd really like that one to have been in there?

[25:13] Tye Blue: Yeah, well, it was always going to be Titanic. Once we decided we were going to do it, and we had an outline, and I said it should be Titanic. That was obvious. But it was called Titanic colon, a musical shit show. Okay. For a while. It was also almost called Titanic colon, a musical shit show. I like that. We didn't do either of those. I don't remember why we pulled those off. I think we pulled shit off just because we didn't feel like having a curse word in a title would be helpful marketing-wise. But I think we might have used shit show here and there. But it just once people heard the word Titanic and Celine Dion and Titanic, they kind of got it. So we let that go. Who knows? Maybe I'll bring it back.

[26:00] Tye Blue: Yeah, we lost songs. We lost three songs. We lost It's All Going to Talk to Me Now, which was the original opening number, obviously, because she's taking us back in time. It's a remembrance. And we lost The Power of Love, because the original songwriter would, I mean, vehemently denied us multiple times. We even had to send David Foster to her to be like, hey, I'm supporting these kids, you should let them use the song. Nope. So that's done a little bit. But we just subbed in Because You Love Me for that. And which actually I think works better now. And then That's The Way It Is was our finale. And we lost that to Ann Juliet, which that really stung because it was such a fucking banger of a closing number and got everyone on their feet.

But you know, the finale is okay. It's so interesting that what could be I know there are recordings and stuff where I think that actually has the original opener in it. But actually now it feels so it feels more Celine-esque, may I say, to have I'm Alive because she wasn't alive. And sadly, ironically, a lot of those people are alive. And so it feels like there's almost a double innuendo in there of like, of course, Celine Dion says, and also A New Day at the very end is also obviously very similar to what we hear at the opener. So it feels like it all just works so brilliantly. And maybe that's just that it was never meant to be. Do you know what I mean? Like, it was always gonna be like this.

[27:30] Tye Blue: Yeah, yeah. When we lost, um, thank you. I appreciate that. When we lost the talking back to me now, we really thought heavily about what would work. And it just felt like, as I was heavy in the kind of design conversation already, and wanting it to feel like a mini Vegas, Celine concert, it felt sensible to use I'm Alive, because it just the groove of the song just felt very welcoming and introductory and expository, basically. And so we were able to use that, because also the melody has such gaps in it. It's such an open form, that song that we were able to weave a lot of, you know, information and bits into the number itself. So it became about like, emulating her days with, you know, Cirque de Soleil dancers, like doing, you know, modern dance around her and kind of hinting at that a little bit, which I think I think that does work really well, actually sets us up in her concert space.

Definitely also allows you to have the dialogue, which I think is important, because I do think when you go in, as you say, like people that maybe have an expectation in the world of parody, are very quickly corrected based on vocals and comedy and direction. So you get them on side very quickly. But I think that opening number, people do, especially when the bin bag with legs, as Leighton calls it, comes on and you're going, I really don't get this. And then the second she comes out, and that dialogue begins with, you know, the da da, like all the connections to the, you're like, oh, I get it now. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that gives you a little bit of breathing space to do that.

[28:56] Tye Blue: How did that opener itself come about? Was that a connection of you and Marla? Did you write that as written and it sort of happened organically? Because I feel like that is comedically structured in a, this only works when you put this on its feet and act it out where like, you wouldn't just be able to write that, for example, or did you? The rewriting of the opening was tough. Don't get me wrong. It was tough. But what I definitely remember in the early, early days is, Tani and I are both huge fans of AIDA, the musical, Tim Rice, Elton John, which if anyone of power is listening to this and wants to like, give me the rights to that, I would really like for that to be my next West End or even any show. But in that musical famously, it opens and closes in this Egyptian museum. And so we literally out of love and reverence for that show, basically stole that structure and use it in ours. Marla come up with two lines to explain this.

[29:52] Tye Blue: Yeah, yeah, we knew we just had to assert her and imbue and empower her with the authority via her spoken word to declare the plot. Right. And so it was just about her setting in my mind, she has sent her team into this museum and rigged it with hidden cameras and walls that could fall away to reveal the band because she wanted to catch all these people, these unsuspecting museum goers as she revealed this major, truthful, important personal story on camera for them. So that's where it comes from. And yeah, just about putting her in a setting where obviously we have to believe her. And in those dun duns that you referenced in the right key, those are in there, you did, those are in there to kind of give her a physical, I'm all about setting up when she moves her hands, shit happens. When she hits a certain frequency, people are changed, like in their DNA. And so that opening number serves to establish that he is the puppet master.

[30:55] Tye Blue: I think it could take a long time if done incorrectly to get to a point where you understand the beast of the show, like you understand where it's placed. And from that point out, anything, however extreme it is, like one of my favorite lines, I think that they had in London was like, Oh, Rose, your body, or like, you know, all of the funny, quick stuff that could get lost. You're listening and waiting for it. And I think it's such a, it's such a fantastic way to get you into the mindset of the show that almost, I guess, anything goes really. And I know she makes that joke at the very end of the show, which going back to the point you're making about the set, but like, everything is so heightened and separate, but also because you've got this figure of Celine, and these characters, it feels like there's a sense of familiarity with it.

And I wonder if you think that that is why people like myself and so many other people do come back to it so often, because it is familiar territory, but also it's all these fantastic songs. And also, it's really good fun. And in a world that's pretty fucking shit at the minute, actually, a little bit of a little bit of Celine Dion, a little and a little bit of stupidity is probably the thing that we all need.

[31:54] Tye Blue: I agree. I've said this many times, but I do feel like a big part of the success of the show is that a lot of theatre has gotten so serious. And so, like, think piece heavy. And the sad truth is we're kind of living through a lot of bullshit. Americans specifically are going through a lot economically, sociopolitically, you know, from the Black Lives movement through COVID, the whole Donald Trump era are like, you know, there's a lot right. And I just think that we haven't really been conscious of what carrying all of that around on a day to day basis has done to us. And when you set someone in a seat at a show that gives it a level of nostalgia to a simpler, happier time, an access point to that, while also making them laugh from a current standpoint, the show becomes medicinal.

And that's my mission with the show is that I realize it's hard enough. And I don't want to spend money to go see a show that's going to make me feel even worse about being alive. And so I'm like miffed and bound to give people a show that elevates their vibration and sends them out the doorway looking up with a smile on their face rather than like looking down sad and doom scrolling. That is my mission with this show.

[33:20] Tye Blue: I'll share with you that just before the Olivier's, a friend of mine said to me, do you think Titanic will win? And I said, 100%. Like, genuinely, I said 100%. I said, because it's all of the things that you just mentioned. And even reviewers, people that have to sit through the good, the bad and the ugly are looking for something that breaks the mold. It's got to be something that's willing to carve its own path. That's, that's got to be good, principally, it can't just be a load of shit. But Titanic is, as you referenced very much at the beginning, about the singing, it's about the fact that it's not bad Celine Dion songs, you know, pitched poorly and going, well, maybe next time I'll listen to Celine sing that, like, these are singers that you think, oh, shit, that's not Celine, I mean, it fucking could be like, it's really, really, really good.

And I feel like that may be one of the great successes of you did win that rather extraordinary Olivier Award. And I know, looking at your speech, watching it and seeing some of the emails that you shared online of the very beginning of your journey with the show that the Olivier Award is incredibly deserving. But I wondered, did you think that that was going to happen? Could you ever have imagined you would get that seal of approval?

[34:19] Tye Blue: I really did not think that we were going to win an Olivier, especially in the early days. I mean, the success that we've had here, the enthusiasm that we've had here in that space, we're a niche, off-Broadway show. Now, we did win some awards in New York that get me wrong, but it just was a bit out of body. Because in our minds, the Olivier Awards is not a place where a silly parody concert show would be welcomed inside the venue. You know what I mean? The American standpoint or, you know, feelings about the Olivier is that it is super, super, super prestigious and that it's a place for high art. And I guess we, even though we are very, very dedicated to the detail and how it's presented, and I care very deeply about the voices and I care very deeply about the sound design and lighting design and the costumes and the casting choices, we treat it very seriously, but we don't expect other people to receive the product as a serious piece of theater.

So I think we felt like very much outsiders there that day. It was a total whirlwind, and it was a beautiful experience. And it kind of reinforced to me that, like, in this market, in the London theater market, there is room for, as I said on stage that night, scrappy young voices to like have a shot. And I have not often felt that way in New York, that we could operate at the highest level. And so it just, it was a very gratifying and empowering and inspiring experience that day. No, I was not confident that we were going to win that. I really was not. But when we walked in and we were seated in the third row, us and Leighton and Lauren, I was like, well, I thought Leighton was going to win.

I really felt like he had that in the bag. And I thought that like, that was going to be what we took home, because we're Americans, you know what I mean? And it's a parody. And so it really was, it took me, I'm still processing it. Like, I'm carrying my Olivier in my bag on around the world with me. I don't know what to do with it. Yeah.

[36:33] Tye Blue: I am incredibly grateful to have been invited to be there that day. When we were making the show here, we were rehearsing the show, I think the day that maybe I even met when we did that press thing, my stance was it would be incredible to be invited to the Olivier's just for someone to be recognized for a performance or a design or something. That was my hope that somebody got some sort of, you know, recognition. And I remain blown away that we actually won for making the show. Yeah. We were talking obviously about the three years in New York, but I do think that if you look at things like the musicals night in Manchester, and the fact that you guys were included on the billing, and rightfully so on a television broadcast, state broadcaster, big was like 12,000 people or something crazy in that arena.

Like, that's a very big space that is not afforded to everybody. And they're very specific about their choices. I think New York has an influence here in that people look to what's interesting, what people are going to engage with, and also what people are curious about. And I think that is, again, the great joy of this show is people go in hoping for greatness, you know, and they very much get it, but curious about it. And I think that New York plays a part here in making people intrigued or interested, like friends of mine that were photographing it said, I was really curious, like I didn't really get what it was. And now I love it. And I've got to see it and have subsequently been and seen it.

So it feels like everything feeds itself. And while yes, of course, Three Years in New York is extraordinary, it has sort of been the stepping stone to come here officially. You know, and it continues on. And it's important to acknowledge that they both benefit each other, right? New York lives on through London. Yeah, it's a network. And they have each production has helped the other production climb to a new height. You know, the Paris production is massive. It's everything you see in the criterion, but with expansions and enhancements and additions visually. So like every, yeah, each one builds upon the other. Please tell everybody the one thing that Paris has that London doesn't. Yes, the water feature, the water feature, Alice in Lydian is so clever.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that venue is known for that they have a fountain in the stage. And Jean-Luc, the producer there, he was like, yes, so we have a fountain and most directors come and they see the fountain as an obstacle. And they just say, I just turn it on during intermission. And I was like, oh, no, we're using the fountain. The fountain will be checked. And we spent three days checking it. And it's the crazy thing is it's actually really emotional to see the water element be used during this moment as people are being brought back to life. It's just so graceful. And it just looks so rich.

[39:19] William J Connolly: Does she go, everybody survived water fountain? Is that how it goes?

[39:23] Tye Blue: There's the they're being lifted from the ground. So they're literally growing up out of the ground like this. And behind them, the fountain structure is coming with them. And then they sing we're your fountain here. And it's basically used intermittently from that moment through the bowels through this thing along.

[39:53] William J Connolly: Is there a particular line in the show that every time you hear it, you go, that's my favorite?

[39:59] Tye Blue: Well, one, there's a pivotal line that I love, that I have kind of like modified the arrangements around to make sure that it is heard. And that is I'd rather be his whore than your wife. You know, that to me is like the crux of Rose's journey. And she really lets him have it with that line. And my mission with that moment is for all the women and whoever in the house to be like, Yeah, fuck, that's fucking right. You tell him I want like I want people to like feel empowered when she says that line. So I enjoy what that moment does to which one I really love as well as that jazz made me piss and the original versions that final passage was Billy Billy boom, see more is your man. And that would always get a standing ovation.

And then we had to get rid of that because it was running off Broadway. And we debated a few things like we wanted to be then we all we were then one time we did it as a live stream with boom, as long as but that didn't work quite as well. And then once we were getting ready for the opera, probably we're like, it needs to be something unexpected, something quick. And that jazz. I think the only thing you could potentially do is do the wicked battle cry. I feel like that's the only other option that's of similar ilk, but I think that jazz is well, Tony, you mentioned that in the Paris production, as we were rehearsing that the whole press, you know, it all happened, and people were singing the riff.

And so it's kind of lightly referenced in all by myself, because the riffs are so similar. But what I did for the Paris company was I diminished that. And then at the very last note of the song, I we just basically lifted don't tell anybody, but we just lifted. And then all of course, boom, standing ovation. I'll list anything. Oh, oh, oh, everything's a reference. Let the references, references, you talk about putting in what about taking out? Is it right that Patty's no longer in some of the productions?

[42:15] Tye Blue: Well, obviously, we're not a fan of anything that she was saying. And I didn't want it to look like we were platforming her. Right. And so what I did was I modified the way we handled her. And I had Celine tell her to shut up and get off stage. And I let the roots really rip her to shreds in a brand new way and hit her harder. So we were strategizing completely removing her. But the apology that came seemed to kind of make it feel safe enough to still beat her up, if that makes sense. In Paris, we don't use Patty in Paris, we use Mariah.

[42:59] William J Connolly: Very strong choice.

[43:00] Tye Blue: Well, we thought so. I'm not sure it works as well. But it's still fun. You know, what is it in London with your new cast?

[43:04] William J Connolly: It's still Patty here.

[43:05] Tye Blue: Okay. And that's you're sticking with that for the time being you think that that's correct.

[43:08] William J Connolly: I think so. I think so. Because we we rip her to shreds.

[43:13] Tye Blue: Has it ever been anybody else? Has it always been Patty?

[43:15] William J Connolly: Nope. It's always been Patty. It's always been Patty. And that only exists because when we did the live stream version during COVID, I had no audience to laugh at the jokes. And so I had the producers order cardboard cutouts for Marla to go stand amidst and I had cardboard to do like quick, you know, tosses out into the house, but she was standing with cardboard cutouts. And one of them was Patty standing with a cardboard cutout of a llama. And so those two things, those two props made it into our rehearsal room for off Broadway. They just sat they just sat in the corner and then inevitably somebody grabbed Patty. And I was like, Oh, that's hilarious. We're going to keep that in.

[44:00] William J Connolly: It's so good, as is everything with the show. It's so perfectly executed under your direction. And it genuinely is one of my favourite shows. So thank you so much for it. And I always like to close off these conversations by asking my favourite question, which is, when you think back to the beginning of this journey and the email that you put on your social media, which I thought was so genuine about the fact that sometimes even the craziest, most stupid of ideas in your brain that you think this is so far fetched from reality actually genuinely could bring joy to somebody else's life. When you think back to the very beginning of this journey, and with three years on Broadway, the six productions, more than Hamilton, as you say, which I love.

And also just the fact that people have gone to the theatre and probably connected and had fun in the dark world that you say, and of course, with your Olivier win as well. What do you think the tie back then would think of the fact that you are here with all of this success and all of this love, and most importantly, holding space in a way, quite wicked, for queerness, for Celine Dion, celebrating her, bringing people together, and bringing belting back to the theatre in a way that is not seen anywhere else. Thank you, Titani. What do you think he would think of the guy that's been sat talking to me for the last hour?

[45:04] Tye Blue: Oh, gosh, I think that if me from 10 years ago, as this was beginning to happen, could fast forward and see what this production has afforded me, and what it does for people, he would be blown away, honestly. Wow, I feel like I'm on RuPaul's Drag Race talking to my picture as a child. That's what this is, isn't it? You're trying to get me, gal. You're trying to get me. I'm on to you. You look cutie. I see you. No, what I remember distinctly is the moment that I heard this idea the first time, it was like, oh, yeah, that's magical. And then we sat on it for a little while. And then later, when I was in a very low, very, very low point, something literally moved through my body. Some spirit, some person on the other side, some guardian angel literally came to me and just was like, you're going to make this show.

Do it. Take out the credit card. Text them right now. Set up a time on Monday to get together. Buy a bottle of wine to bring to set it off on a good vibe. And I never lost that. Whatever force or voice or, you know, godmother on the other side has been just gently saying, keep going, keep going, keep going was right. And so it's just made me want to continue to trust those instincts and continue to just be scrappy and just make things for the sake of making them.

[46:24] William J Connolly: And if you let me, what do you think Celine would think of the production?

[46:29] Tye Blue: I think that she would love it. I think that what I've learned from her people is that she's pretty crazy. She really is very silly, very fun. She's actually very like kind of sexual and sensual and did a striptease for Renee one year at his birthday party in front of a bunch of people. And so I think and hope that she would see that we take her irreverence and her authenticity and just do this with it in a way that she probably wishes she could. But because of the scrutiny that she's under, she probably has to like play the like more demure version of herself for the public eye. And so I hope that she would enjoy it. I hope that she would just want to jump on stage and just jump in and be like, oh, I got this girl. I can tell the story. That would be the dream. That would be the dream.

[47:21] William J Connolly: Well, when the movie inevitably happens, I dare you, let her do it.

[47:25] Tye Blue: I would love that. We would love that. There's a world in which this thing could happen on some bigger level, wherein we convince her and her team to like actually have her do Titanic for camera, for feature film, for, you know, HBO Max. Anything is possible.

[47:44] William J Connolly: You're literally in the West End. You've won an Olivier. Anything can happen. Celine Dion, come on, come on, come on, board the ship, please board the ship.

[47:52] Tye Blue: I'm on. Oh, my God. I don't think I'd be well. I would be unwell if that were to come to pass. But I pulled my big boy panties on and get to work. But could you imagine? Could you imagine if she actually was like, hey, I want to do it. Let me do it.

[48:09] William J Connolly: Ty, thank you so much for your time. I do genuinely appreciate it. And most importantly, congratulations on three years in New York. It's a monumental achievement. And I hope they were able to smile very much as you look back at those memories. And more importantly, good luck with the journey ahead with London. It's very exciting.

[48:23] Tye Blue: Thank you very much.

[48:27] William J Connolly: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[48:30] Announcer: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at elevenpodcast.com or via the Broadway Podcast Network.