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[0:00] Michael Shaeffer: My name is Michael Shaeffer and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:16] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. He's the remarkable stage actor that's currently leading as King Aerys II Targaryen in the world premiere of Game of Thrones, The Mad King at the RSC in Stratford. Based on the novels by George R. R. Martin and adapted for the stage by Duncan Macmillan and directed by Dominic Cook, the play marks a milestone moment for the globally adored franchise and celebrates a new chapter in the world of possibilities for major theatrical epics. But how do you bring this extraordinary tale to life each and every night on stage and what's it like seated up on the Iron Throne as the Mad King himself?

Well, let's find out as just moments before he takes to the stage at the Royal Shakespeare Theatre in this world premiere production, we dive deep on the wondrous world of Game of Thrones, The Mad King, including making his RSC debut, building a beloved character up in a new chapter and why his pursuit for truth in a world of madness has been one of his favourite theatrical endeavours so far. Plus, we celebrate the genius of George R. R. Martin, his visit to see the show on two separate occasions, why he had quote no notes when watching and how this has turned out to be George's favourite version of the infamous Iron Throne. We also acknowledge the global love of fans embracing new faces inside the world of Game of Thrones, what it's really like to be seated upon that famous throne and how he's gone from being a newbie to certified fan in the GOT universe.

An epic of all epics? Well that sounds about right for The Mad King, it is the brilliant Michael Shaeffer, here now on this the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Please help me welcome to this the next episode of Eleven, he is the stage and screen actor that's currently making his RSC debut in the performance of the season as the Mad King himself in the monster epic Game of Thrones, The Mad King, a new play based on the novels of George R. R. Martin, adapted by Duncan Macmillan and directed by none other than the genius of Dominic Cook and he's here to tell me about life upon the Iron Throne and what it's like being in the epic of all epics this summer. So I say good afternoon Michael Shaeffer, you didn't fancy recording this podcast on the warmth of the Iron Throne today?

[2:45] Michael Shaeffer: I don't know if they'd have let me but to be fair it's not the most comfortable of seats which is probably sort of quite appropriate actually, but it does look incredible and I sort of enter, I hope it's not a spoiler, but I sort of come up on the throne at the beginning of act two and it is probably the best entrance I've ever been given, it's incredible.

[3:13] Michael Shaeffer: I don't want to do this one more thing, I will just say that apparently it is George's favourite representation of the throne which is fantastic and I think it's really important to him as well. I don't think that's just a throwaway, oh yeah this is the one, this is how I see it. I think that is really important, I mean it is such a symbolically important piece of furniture if you like and it is iconic and I think that holds real weight for George is the impression I get, that's not just a trivial thing for him so that's fantastic. If you don't believe what you've just said go on George's Instagram, he posted a picture of him actually sat on, well collectively both of your babies, it belongs to both of you at this point in time which I imagine for you probably lovely that he came, lovely that he's seen it, lovely as I witnessed in that opening night performance that he loved it but also kind of wild that the man himself was sat on something that you've spent so much time on recently which I guess is, is it like him anointing you officially that that is your space now that he's also been there as well, how's it been for you realising oh wait the man's actually been and he really likes it?

[4:18] Michael Shaeffer: Yeah do you know what, it's amazing actually, he's been twice now, he came on the gala night that you were there and he came a couple of nights later. I'm told that he absolutely loves the show and that he had no notes for Duncan or Dominic and that's not like him, you know he has strong opinions about how his work is adapted and how it's interpreted and yeah so apparently he really loves it which is thrilling for us and he came and met us all backstage after he watched the show for the second time and spent a bit of time with us and it was completely thrilling. It was, there was something quite surreal about it actually because of course you know we're all familiar with George in a remote way you know watching YouTube videos or whatever and seeing interviews with him but there was something really special about meeting the man who has created this extraordinary world.

[5:26] Michael Shaeffer: I wasn't a Game of Thrones fan prior to doing this job and I've just been staggered by the complexity and the depth and the richness of the world that he has created. It really is something else, I mean going back generations and generations, hundreds and thousands of years, it absolutely blows my mind so it was a real thrill to meet the man yeah.

[5:56] William J Connolly: One thing that I think is incredibly important for people that are listening to this that haven't had the pleasure as I have of coming and sitting in that very special space at the RSC is that we're not going to give any spoilers away at all, we're going to make sure that everyone has the same opportunity to be able to enjoy this show when they get the honour of coming but one thing as you reference with the throne moment which you do come from underneath the stage and is epic and grand and the sound absolutely pounds out of that moment is that it has all of the brilliance and almost the campery of the TV show that is so epic in the way that we all fall in love with it while also being its own self while this feels like a new chapter this is kind of adjacent and alongside a beautiful sibling to the books and to the TV show which means that you do get to put your stamp on it this is your version of it you're given the beauty of ownership of it and to get that level of response from the man whose genius mind all of this came from must be incredibly heartwarming but also really affirming that this journey and the great work that all of you have put in and I know that it's been a great slog to get here is actually worth all of that time because judging by the reviews by the audience and by what it felt like in that space people are so in love that they just want to come back again and again and I include myself in that.

[7:06] Michael Shaeffer: Yeah do you know what I mean of course it was wonderful to get George's stamp of approval but I think for me the really big thing has been the approval that we've been getting from die-hard Game of Throners people who have travelled thousands of miles to come and see this show and who are loving it that for me has been really important because if we're not getting it right for those people then we're failing and it's such a beloved world that it would have been really really difficult if we hadn't kind of scored a hit with them and they've absolutely embraced it. I've looked a little bit online but we meet people every night after the show and I think it was last night there were people in from Massachusetts and but all over the world people come to see the show and people have already, there's one person's already seen it six times, I don't think we've only done about 10 shows, I mean it's ridiculous so that is so kind of heartwarming as you say and it has been hard work to put it on but listen I've only been involved with it for the last few months Duncan has been attached to it for years and has been grafting away on this and then Dominic as well for some years so you know as a project it's been a really long time in the making and then yeah this period of really intense activity for the 36 of us performers who are in it as well as this enormous team of people around it you know the sound and the lighting and the set designers and the builders and the makers and the puppetry stuff and all the rest of it I mean it is epic in every sense it really does meet the epic nature of the story and the world and it's interesting you use the word camp I think it does sort of it sort of goes there you know and I've realized that with what I felt I needed to do is you it's not a back foot role you know you can't just kind of you can't just throw it away you have to pull up to meet it you know and it does somebody a friend of mine when they saw one of the pictures of me sitting on the throne did point out that it was quite camp and it was like yeah as Christmas and that's okay I think that's great but also it's completely there's nothing sent up about it in any way it's completely straight but it's so the stakes of everything is so high in this world and in this story that it's never casual every you know we're talking about treason and kings and prophecy and the sort of biggest things imaginable and you have to you have to pull up to meet it.

[10:28] Michael Shaeffer: The recently departed dear Peter Gill I worked with him years and years ago and he used to say of Shakespeare that you have to pull yourself up to the language like a pull-up bar and I thought of him when I was starting to work on this because it is quite the language is quite heightened it's not just everyday speech and you do have to kind of pull up pull yourself up to meet it in a similar way and it's been a really really interesting challenge to try and do that it's not really like anything I've done before. I think also you'd be forgiven when you first sit in that space and it begins after that incredible opening scene which goes on for so long in that you saw the epicness hits you where you're like this this is like watching the show but in real life like how how is this happening number one but also when the dialogue then begins you'd be forgiven for thinking actually that it is a Shakespearean piece such as the way in which it's presented and the intricacy of it and the cleverness of the piece and the rhyming of it where actually to do it in the RSC space feels not only apt but also incredibly intelligent and actually I think quite exciting and sort of cements it in a world of like you know great wealth that actually this is a proper big I know we keep using the word epic I'm going to say a lot more but like an epic piece of theatre that does uniquely come from Shakespearean writing and from the mind of that gentleman so it feels apt that you are in that space delivering at times I mean he's yes it's fun and he's got a lot of craziness to the actions and there's a lot of physicality but it's really fucking sad at times like you really feel for him and it's it's pretty wild the journey he goes on I imagine for you quite terrifying when you first start off but to do it now it's it's it's a big ask of you but I imagine a rather joyful one as an actor.

[12:15] Michael Shaeffer: It is it is a demanding part you have to kind of go there every night and so I'm sort of really now just discovering how to do that and that's different every night and I think one of the joys of it actually is that and Dominic really encourages that for us Dominic Cook our director encourages us to find it afresh every night and so I really allow it to be different and to be informed by how I am that evening or what just occurs to me and what happens in the moment and so then it's for me that's when it's exciting is when we're all just really present and really listening and we're right.

[13:06] Michael Shaeffer: It's been an incredible journey, honestly. Stepping into the shoes of such a complex character like King II Targaryen has been both thrilling and daunting. The world of Game of Thrones is so rich, and bringing that to life on stage every night is a challenge I embrace wholeheartedly.

[13:36] Michael Shaeffer: The preparation for this role has involved a lot of research, not just into the character but also into the broader themes of power, madness, and the consequences of ambition. I wanted to ensure that I could portray King II with the depth and nuance he deserves.

[14:06] Michael Shaeffer: One of the most fascinating aspects of this production is how it explores the idea of legacy. King II is not just a ruler; he’s a product of his lineage and the expectations that come with it. I think audiences will find that relatable, even in a fantastical setting.

[14:36] Michael Shaeffer: Working with Duncan Macmillan and Dominic Cooke has been a dream. Their vision for this adaptation has allowed us to delve deeper into the emotional core of the story, making it not just a spectacle but a deeply human experience.

[15:06] Michael Shaeffer: I remember the first time I stepped onto the Royal Shakespeare Theatre stage. It was surreal. The history of that place is palpable, and to be part of it, especially with a production like this, is something I’ll cherish forever.

[15:36] Michael Shaeffer: The audience's reactions have been incredible. There’s a palpable energy in the room, and it’s rewarding to see how they connect with the story and the characters. It feels like we’re all on this journey together.

[16:06] Michael Shaeffer: George R. R. Martin's involvement has been a highlight for me. Knowing that he has seen the show and appreciates our interpretation is a huge honor. His storytelling has influenced so many, and to have his support means the world.

[16:36] Michael Shaeffer: The Iron Throne itself is a character in its own right. Sitting on it for the first time was a moment I won’t forget. It’s heavy, both literally and metaphorically, and it really drives home the weight of the crown.

[17:06] Michael Shaeffer: I think what’s exciting about this production is how it introduces new faces to the Game of Thrones universe. Fans are so passionate, and seeing them embrace our interpretations has been heartwarming.

[17:36] Michael Shaeffer: There’s a certain thrill in performing for an audience that has such a deep connection to the source material. It pushes us to deliver our best every night, knowing how much it means to them.

[18:06] Michael Shaeffer: The themes of madness and truth resonate deeply in today’s world. It’s fascinating to explore how those concepts play out in the lives of our characters and, by extension, in our own lives.

[18:36] Michael Shaeffer: I’ve become a bit of a fan myself, diving into the lore and the intricacies of the characters. It’s a rich tapestry, and being part of it has only deepened my appreciation for the original works.

[19:06] Michael Shaeffer: Each performance feels like a new adventure. There are always little discoveries to be made, both in my portrayal and in how the audience responds. It keeps the experience fresh and exciting.

[19:36] Michael Shaeffer: I think the audience will leave the theatre with a lot to think about. The questions raised in the play linger long after the curtain falls, and that’s something I find incredibly rewarding as an actor.

[20:06] Michael Shaeffer: As we continue to explore these characters and their journeys, I hope we can spark conversations about power, responsibility, and the human condition. That’s the beauty of theatre, isn’t it?

[20:36] Michael Shaeffer: I’m grateful for the opportunity to be part of such a groundbreaking production. It’s not just about the spectacle; it’s about the stories we tell and the connections we make with the audience.

[21:06] Michael Shaeffer: I look forward to seeing how this production evolves over time. Each performance is a chance to refine and deepen the work, and I’m excited to see where it takes us.

[21:36] Michael Shaeffer: Ultimately, I hope that audiences walk away feeling a sense of connection to the characters and the themes we’re exploring. That’s what makes this journey worthwhile for me.

[22:06] Michael Shaeffer: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure to share my thoughts and experiences about this incredible production. I can’t wait for everyone to see it!

[22:36] Michael Shaeffer: And remember, every night is a new opportunity to experience the magic of theatre. I hope to see you all at the Royal Shakespeare Theatre soon!

[26:13] Michael Shaeffer: I mean, I still feel like that every night that I'm still trying to find what it is, find out who he is, find out how to do it in the most, in the way that serves the story in the most effective way. And, yeah, so it's for me, it was kind of essential to just ignore anything else, really. And just to sort of try and focus on my job, obviously, with support and direction from Dominic. And Duncan was in the room a lot of the time with us as well, which was always really helpful. And I think we all, as a company, were sort of discovering what the piece was. And you get to a certain point with that. And then when you put it in front of an audience for the first time, they tell you what the piece is.

And you go, oh, right. And it's hard to put into words, but you learn so much then. And then the more you understand the piece, I think the more you understand what your role in it is. Because our, you know, characters sort of don't exist on their own. That's not a real thing, right? They only exist to serve the story. And so once you begin to understand the story, and what the thing is, then you understand a bit more about what it is you need to do to serve it. So it feels like a continual process there. And it's interesting now that we're into the run, there's another thing happens where it really begins to find its rhythm and little nuances are starting, everyone's becoming more and more detailed with their work.

And it's kind of going to that next level now, which is fascinating, actually, how a piece develops over time. And there's a lot in this, I think, obviously, it's one of the hallmarks of a good piece of writing is that it continues to reveal itself over time. And this has done that right from when I first read it. Like every day since then, I've understood more and more about it, and it's revealed more to me. And it's a good piece of writing, actually. I think Duncan's done an incredible job with this. You know, I mean, it's such a huge thing, but it's really good writing, actually. It's also an element of you having to try and understand even at the most extreme circumstances, especially for a character that is labeled by definition of the title as well, like, quote, mad, that you have to understand why he makes some of the decisions that he does in good faith, rather than, you know, the audience have got to see him as pretty wild and making some pretty stupid decisions at times.

And as a reference, again, without spoiling anything about the heartache that comes, but he does it in good faith, even if he even if it ends up shooting him in the ass at some point, and he regrets it deeply. It's a lot. Do you have to sort of go there with him and say, right, why does he do this, even if I think this is the wrong decision?

[29:23] Michael Shaeffer: Yeah, well, I never judge it as being the wrong decision. I don't think one should ever kind of think that way about characters, because they don't think that. And it's a bit like the thing, everyone says he's mad. And I kept saying in rehearsals, is he? Why? What's he done that's so mad? Why is everyone calling him mad? Before we've met him, what's he done? And somebody said, oh, he took Elin Payne's tongue out with hot things. I was like, okay, and, you know, to sort of slightly to play a devil's advocate a bit, but also, to just try and investigate that a bit, because I don't think you can play mad. I don't know what that is. You're absolutely right. It's a drum school, a teacher at drum school used to say, character is what character does.

And it's that. So what does he actually do? And what motivates that? Why is he deciding to do that thing? And he absolutely does it in good faith, even if from the outside, you could question the logic. A lot of the time, I think his logic is pretty good. It might be that he's, you could say, well, that's a cruel thing to do. But I think he's a very damaged person from an incredible amount of things that have happened to him. There's so much history to draw on that George has written in the Song of Ice and Fire. But when I started to sort of pull all of the stuff out, and it took an awful lot of work to try and find all of the stuff that is written about Aris. And then I put it into my own timeline.

And I was like, I looked at that as a life. And I was like, bloody hell, up until the point where we meet him. And it's like, blimey, the stuff he's gone through this guy is traumatized, you know, from being married to his sister at 15, which was not something he wanted to do, or she wanted to do. That she gives birth at 16. In the middle of this raging inferno, when Aris watches his grandfather die, as well as becoming a father in that moment, as well as in that moment becoming heir to the throne, which was not something that was ever on his bingo card. Three years later, his father dies, and he's made king at 19. They then have eight lost children, between miscarriages, infant deaths. They lose eight children.

And then of course, he's the other the sort of, there's all sorts of other stuff happens. But the final big thing that happens is the Duskendale, where he's kidnapped and held captive for six months, following which, once he's rescued, he then locks himself away for four years in the Red Keep. You know, he'd be seeing servants and maybe some of the Kingsguard and stuff like that, but essentially not being seen in public. And not not going out at all, not engaging with the world at all. So all of that happens before we meet him, you know, and so the time when we first meet him in the play, it's his first public moment in four years. And he sort of comes blinking into the world almost. And it's, so yeah, that's where that's kind of where you, that's where you start the evening, from my point of view.

And it's, yeah, it's a fun one. It's like, gosh, how do you how do you get there every night? So like, warm up has become really important. It's not just become about, you know, doing a little bit of a vocal and a bit of a stretch. It's like I have to kind of physically somehow get myself to the level to attack it. And so yeah, that's all the work in progress, how I go about doing that. And that's kind of experimenting and trying to find out what works best. But yeah, it's a great challenge every night.

[33:44] Michael Shaeffer: It's interesting as well that the narrative is pitted around the title of him being mad at the top versus the insanity and desperation that we see play below him. And I always think it's interesting, the lens of which the audience is told to view him to your point versus actually what we see unravel, which again, brilliant writing is, is where we end up at the very end. And it's so interesting, actually, I feel like if you were to see the show, you would look back and go, that's an interesting choice of that. Or that's an interesting choice of this title or name or positioning or what I thought the beginning certainly isn't what I thought at the end. And again, this is the genius of this world.

This is the genius of this writing. But it also means that the fans then feel satisfied, I think, from an outsider's perspective on what a journey this is, and this is worth telling in this way. And that's why this chapter is so special to the people in like the person that's come back six times, because it feels like something that's familiar. But it's also brand new in a new medium that we haven't experienced. And that's when acting I think, is at its best, because it's live in person. And you're experiencing exactly the feelings that you as the actor are. And that's why. That's why I think Duncan is the best at what he does in terms of adapting. And that's why I think Dominic is just, well, he is a genius, quite frankly.

[35:01] Michael Shaeffer: Yeah, I think this is a really high risk project. I think there are the fuck up factor is quite high with this. There are lots of ways in which you could get this wrong. And, and to get it right, is really tough. I always think musicals are the hardest thing to do. You know, a lot of people are will sort of lazily write off musicals and go, Oh, I hate musicals. Well, no, you clearly just haven't seen any good ones. Because when they're good, they're extraordinary, but they are the hardest thing to get right. This is also a very, very hard thing to get right, partly because it is so beloved, partly because it is so complex, and it is so huge. And to bring all those things together, and to have the epicness, but also the intimateness.

And in a way, again, I think that's very Shakespearean, that you get sort of both ends of that. But to bring this whole thing together has been such a labour of love for so many years. But to pull it off in the way that I think we have done, and we are doing, is incredibly satisfying for people to witness and for fans of the world, to be in the physical presence of these characters that they've read. And of course, lots, some of them they've seen older versions of in Game of Thrones, how these characters mature, but to see where they come from, I think is incredibly satisfying, what the sort of genesis of these characters has been. And also, of course, to see embodiments of characters that they have only read about that have never been portrayed in any other medium, I think, I get the sense is incredibly satisfying for people.

And somebody said to me last night, actually, I would you think now, film it, and I've seen lots of things online about, you know, people in other countries saying, please, please, can you film it so we can see it. And of course, I think that would really miss the point. There are filmed versions of lots of bits of this story, essentially. And this is distinct because it's live. Because it's you're this far away from a horse or people in armor fighting or whatever it might be the godswood tree or the throne. You're right there with it having a shared experience with 1000 other people. And in that particular space, this sort of stage that's in the form of a cross, but so effectively, you're not only in the round, but you are kind of inside the world. I think all of that is is so particular and special about this live experience that I just actually to film it would would really miss the point of it.

[37:57] Michael Shaeffer: I think also, if you were doing particularly some of the dialogue that you were doing, you know, like when he's on the throne, and he's sort of looking down on people that are also, at the same time looking up at him with waiting for command or waiting for his reaction and whatever capacity it comes, you're still watching him commanding a space at the height that he is on the space that he is looking from from an outsider's perspective. And I do think to your point, like, yes, it would be really cool to see your face close up, be able to see every sweat down your face, that would be great. But there is something about being able to be a voyeur to it in the space that I do think, again, that's the for me, that's the charm of great theater is that you're in it, but you're not in it, but you're watching it, but you could almost be in it at the same time.

Especially, especially in a space like that, especially doing it in the RSC, you know, to do it in there is, it's pretty epic. And I obviously would love there to be further life for it in the future, if it's in film, if it could come to London, whatever it might be. So obviously, we'd encourage all these things to still potentially happen. But I think in the space now is sort of the Holy Grail as it as it was of where this could be. And it's, it feels like a moment where you'll look back on this chapter and go, I kind of wish I could go back to summer of 26. And maybe just do like a month of shows again. It's been a really.

[39:18] Michael Shaeffer: It's been a really remarkable time. It genuinely has, to have kind of grappled with this pace, with this incredible group of people who, I must just give a shout out to, I've mentioned that there are 36 performers in this thing, but I have never worked with a more hard-working, willing, happy, positive, can-do group of people as this. I'm absolutely blown away by each and every one of them every single night. The energy that everybody brings to it. It's a really, really special company. I have a pet theory that we've got about a dozen people in the company who sort of have a particular expertise in puppetry, as well as being actors. But I think there's something about the fact that as puppeteers, their focus is on something outside of themselves.

So you might have three puppeteers doing a horse or whatever it might be. But I think perhaps they have less ego than a lot of us actors. But I think perhaps they've set the tone in terms of how to sort of be with the work. So I don't know. That's my little pet theory as to why this is the incredible company that it is. But they are a very, very special group of people. And it has been tough putting I do think this is probably the hardest I've ever worked. But some of these people are working an awful lot harder than I am. I mean, my God. And, you know, in I was getting time off in rehearsals because, you know, there's whole bits I'm not in. And there are people here who have barely had any time off.

They're just in it all the time. And they're really incredible. Yeah. But this summer, because it's felt like a kind of never-ending summer. I've never worked in Stratford before. And a friend of mine who was here in Arturo Uwe just before us, he was like, I bought I bought an inflatable kayak to go out on the river. It's amazing. You need to get one. So I thought, great. So I brought one up with me and I went out in the first the first time I could. And it's caught on. So there's now about a dozen kayaks and stand-up paddle boards in the company every Sunday. We're out on the river. We went out one night after the show. So there's the river has sort of been a really important part of this summer.

And it's really special. I mean, I won't be forgetting this one in a hurry and I've got a terrible memory, but it is. I'm still sort of slightly coming to terms with what a remarkable thing this is. Do you know what I mean? And it might be only afterwards that I get to fully appreciate that. And it is odd that we've only got another three weeks, all of this time making the thing and then and then actually the run is very, very short. But watch this space for news on future lives. I think I'd be very surprised if it doesn't have any kind of future life. But we wait for news on that one. Yes. The epic of all epics is too epic to let go. We have to. There's got to be something. But let's see. Fingers fingers. If we all behave, it will happen. So fingers crossed.

[43:04] William J Connolly: For people that do come to this project that have so much love and respect for it, they either have a ticket and they're coming and they're curious about what they're going to experience or maybe should there be something down the road or thinking, if I can get a ticket, I'd love to come. How would you best introduce them to what you believe they get sitting in those very special seats? So the people that do love it and care for it and come with it with only positive vibes and nature and want to lean in, but do understandably have a little bit of nervousness and want to make sure that it feels true and good to them. How would you best position this rather extraordinary world to them from your perspective?

[43:41] Michael Shaeffer: I think it's an experience. I heard a statistic that 56 percent of people that have bought tickets for the show have never been to the theatre before, which is just wonderful. And I do know that people are having an experience here, that people are finding it kind of moving. It's exciting. It doesn't really bear comparison to other things. It is sort of like nothing you've ever seen before. And all you have to do is show up and turn up and, you know, hopefully we'll take you on the journey with us. Make sure you have a wee before you go in. But it's, yeah, come along for the ride. You know, it is quite a ride. It is almost difficult to put down. I keep saying the word epic. And when I was writing stuff, I was like, what are other words to describe this world other than epic?

And I think it's just the right word. Yeah. Epic, full stop. Just go just believe. And I think I think people will very much feel how I felt afterwards, which was firstly, oh, my God. And secondly, can I come back again? I think of the two ways it feels. And it's interesting, actually, because if you know, my partner's been twice and she sat in a very different seat. And so she saw a whole bunch of other stuff. There's so much going on. You know, at some points there are 36 of us on the stage. It's like there's an awful lot of things to look at. So it really does bear repeated viewings as well, especially from different bits of the theatre. You see different things.

[45:29] William J Connolly: And very finally, do you remember the very first interaction that you had with this project? Was it that you heard that they were doing it? Do you remember, like, what was like before it was even a possibility about you being connected? What was like the first time you ever knew this is happening?

[45:44] Michael Shaeffer: I got asked to do it. I wasn't asked to audition for it. I was like, what? What do you mean? I mean, I've been asked to do a couple of things in the past, but I don't think I've ever had something come so out of the blue as this. It wasn't called The Mad King then. So it was, you know, Dominic's doing this Game of Thrones thing at the RSC and he wants you to play this character. And I was like, all right, OK. And they sent me the script and I'm not, I wasn't a Game of Thrones person. So I wasn't sort of going, oh, wow. You know, I was going, OK, I'll have a look. And I read the script and it's a difficult read. It doesn't kind of fly off the page at you if you're not a Game of Thrones person.

I'm going, oh, Christ, all these bloody names. I don't know who's who, you know. And I found it quite difficult to read. And I didn't I didn't go, oh, my God. I kind of went, I don't know. I don't know who that guy is. I wouldn't know where to begin playing that part. And they said, well, look, Dominic's sort of open to having a chat with you about it if you want to talk about anything, you know. So I arranged to chat with Dom and I basically said, I don't have a clue how to approach this. Sometimes you read a script and you go, yes, I've got I think I know where to start. I think I've got a sense of I sort of have a sense of who that person is. And with this, I didn't at all. And so I told him that.

And I said, I don't really know. I thought he made a mistake. You know, I was like, because I didn't know Dom. And I met him maybe once or twice very briefly. And so I couldn't really understand why he'd asked me to do it. And I said, and I don't know how to. And he said, well, that's OK. I don't know either, but we'll find out together. And I kind of went, OK, all right, then let's let's do that. And so it took me a while to get my head around it. I went off traveling to Mexico and I kind of had this thing in the back of my mind going, well, I haven't made a decision about it yet. And they've asked, you know, they need to know. And I mean, I'm so pleased that that I'm doing it. And I seem to have found something that's working for other people.

I'm still not sure if I still think that I've got more to find in this thing yet. You know, I'm still sort of trying to find it. But I'm pleased to know that it's that I'm not stinking the place out. You know, and that it's it's kind of seems to be working for fans and stuff. So that's great. So I'm just going to keep trying to do that for a bit.

[48:40] William J Connolly: Could I just ask if you think back to how you felt when that was first brought to you and when this idea was first planted? And then when you gave it the time that you reference and you started to find yourself in it and understand it and see where you could bring and what you could bring to it. What do you think like the Michael then would think of like the picture, the George moment, the applause on opening night, the fact that you just said this is the hardest you've worked on one of the best projects you've ever done. Would he be able to believe that this could be such a special part in your life? Like, is this within the realm of him even thinking that?

[49:15] Michael Shaeffer: No, gosh, you're making me very emotional, William. Sorry. No, I'm not. I'd sort of I try and just take everything as it comes, you know, and so I don't really project in that. Like I wouldn't have absolutely back then been able to to imagine that it would end up being what it's ended up being. Maybe because doing that would have been unhelpful in some way to me achieving it. But I'm not great at sort of projecting into the future. So I would never have sort of allowed myself to do that, really. I mean, a bit like, you know, when I was a kid going to drama school. I never I never could have imagined that I would make a living being an actor and, you know, done the things I've done. I couldn't have.

I sort of don't dare to dream those things. Maybe I should allow myself to maybe I should take that away from this. But so I think a bit like with this, it's like, well, I've just better get on with it. Then I've been I've said yes to this job now. But it's a, you know, start doing my work, start doing the homework, seeing if I can figure out how to approach it. And so they were the thoughts that occupied me. Fuck, what am I going to do? Because if I fuck this up, a lot of people are going to know about it. You know, I'm driven more by fear of failure than anything else. I think is what is what we're discovering.

[51:06] William J Connolly: Michael, thank you so much for your time. I genuinely really appreciate it. And most importantly, congratulations. It's as epic as epic is. And it's really, really, really special to get the opportunity not only to speak to you, but also to have been present in that space, to be able to see this original production and to get to witness your performance. So thank you so much for that. And most importantly, thank you so much for your time with this. And good luck with company. There's only three weeks left to the point of which we record this. There's got to be more. Let's start a petition. There has to be. But just thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And most importantly, please enjoy those final three weeks.

[51:35] Michael Shaeffer: Thanks so much, William. It's a real pleasure to talk to you. I've really enjoyed the conversation. And I'm very, very happy to have discovered your podcast. I listened to the Victoria Hamilton Barrett episode because I thought she was just fantastic in Paddington. And I've just started listening to the Mark Addy episode. And I worked with Mark years ago on a TV show called Oasis. And I adore him. I think he's the most wonderful man. So I'm thrilled to have discovered a new podcast for myself. Thank you.

[52:07] William J Connolly: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at elevenpodcast.com or via the Broadway Podcast Network.