This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jinkx Monsoon: My name is Jinkx Monsoon and you're listening to Eleven, the original theatre podcast.

[0:20] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. She's the globally adored stage actor that's currently the brattiest girl in all of London town as she plays Mary Todd Lincoln in the West End production of Oh, Mary!, a role that she reprises following her record-breaking box office run in New York. So how do you switch from the brattiest girl Stateside to an all-new English cast and audience that is waiting to learn a bit of American history with a twist? Well, to celebrate her final performances under the Monsoon administration and direct from her home, we talk all things Mary Todd, including their love and respect for the writing of Cole Escola, why being given the honour of stepping into Sam Pinkleton's production on now three separate occasions is not lost on her, and why this material is anything but a joke to deliver eight times a week.

Plus, we celebrate her journey from niche cabaret artist to being a niche cabaret legend on stage each and every night in Oh, Mary!, the power of patience and hard work in the entertainment industry, and why great writing in the world of comedy is oh so addictive. We also talk about the power of stage door conversations, particularly for young queer people, how creating space within the mainstream is something that they always wanted but were never given, and the life-changing impact Hedwig and the Angry Inch had on her as a young queer theatre kid longing for connection, and why it was a full-circle moment for her when friends like RuPaul and Michelle Visage showed up for her at Oh, Mary!, reminding her of the remarkable journey from a tic-tac lunch and a dream on TV to now a certified leading lady. So get ready as it is officially Monsoon season. It's the glorious Jinkx Monsoon here now on this, the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[2:12] William J Connolly: Please help me welcome to this the next episode of Eleven. She is the Broadway leading star that's currently the brattiest girl in all of London town as she makes her West End debut as Mary Todd Lincoln in Sam Pinkleton and Cole Escola's sensational hit Oh, Mary!, a show that she returns to having broken box office records as Mary over the pond. So I say hello to one of my favourite humans on planet Earth. Hi Jinkx Monsoon, are we feeling a little niche cabaret artist longing for some much-deserved attention today?

[2:43] Jinkx Monsoon: I've got plenty, I've got attention in spades these days, but you know, you're one of the people in London who really understands the weight behind that line, niche cabaret legend, because that is how I started my life here in London 10 years ago in the underground cabaret basement of the Soho Theatre on Dean Street. And now 10 years later, you know, I get to play characters that subtly reference such careers and lifetimes.

[3:29] William J Connolly: That's completely correct. And actually, I'll be really honest with you, that did genuinely, hand on my heart, cross my mind when I saw you do this role and say that very particular line. It's wild how life and art seem to meet somewhere in the middle. If you wait long enough and perhaps work hard enough, it feels very true to your life.

[3:45] Jinkx Monsoon: Yeah, I'm learning that patience is a really important thing to have in life and in this career. And it is sometimes the hardest thing to maintain when you believe in yourself and you see the obstacles before you and you think, these obstacles are stupid. Like, I know I can handle them, but why are they here?

[4:26] William J Connolly: It's also interesting as well, I feel, with this role in particular, because, and again, hopefully I'm not getting this incorrect, but I believe that you saw this show and then you actually were proactive enough to believe that you could do it. And did you speak to Cole? Is that how it went? That you said, I feel like I need to be involved and potentially play this role in some way. This was a, I believe in myself enough to put myself forward moment for you.

[4:47] Jinkx Monsoon: I have been an acquaintance of Cole's for like 13 years now. Well, I guess it's like 15 years now. And I've been a fan of Cole's for as long as YouTube has existed. Like, Cole and I are not that different in age and Cole has been believing in themselves and advocating for themselves for a long time as well. So I've just been a pal and a well-wisher to this person I greatly admire for a long time. Then I went to see Oh, Mary off Broadway before the transfer at the Lucille Lortel Theatre. And this is now like three and a half years ago. And I had a feeling that Oh, Mary was going to be living this really big life like it wasn't going to end off Broadway. And, you know, there were murmurs about a Broadway transfer.

So following the performance that completely blew my mind and convinced me that Cole is the funniest person alive, I walked up to Cole after the show, gave them their flowers and congratulations. And then I very directly said, when I want I just this is amazing. And you have to take it as far as you possibly can and get absolutely everything you can out of it. And when you are bored with it, only then, only when it gets to the point that like someone might be asked to take over the role. So it can keep going. Call me because I already have a billion ideas. And it took two years before I ended up playing the role. And Cole won a Tony the week before it was announced I'd be playing the role or something.

It was such a weird timeline. And it was also so magical because talk about patience, you know, like it was patience for myself. But it was also like as a fan of Cole, I have been believing in what Cole could do for so long. And I've seen Cole make appearances in TV shows and write their own short films and sketches and series pilots and everything. I've seen everything they've done. And I've just always wanted the world to realize that Cole Escola is a genius. And along with that, I get to like show off some of my acting skills with Cole's incredible writing and Sam Pinkleton's incredible directing. So it's just win, win, win, win, win, win, win. And so, you know, I see Oh, Mary as being as precious to Sam and Cole as the Jinkx and Dayla Holiday show is to Dayla and I. And it feels like I see another baby out in the world that is really special to people and everyone can see how special it is.

[8:21] Jinkx Monsoon: I didn't mean to bring it back to me, but that is another thing I said to Cole and Sam. When I first saw this show, I was like, I don't know how else to say this, but to relate to it. But I've created something I care a lot about. And it's not just like a vanity project. It's also something that I believe in. And when I saw this show, I was like, I just would love to experience working on this thing that they've created because it's so cool. And to get invited into it and to keep getting invited into it is very, very special. Like Sam and Cole feel like family at this point, you know.

[9:11] William J Connolly: What's so interesting, actually, and you said it just there is like, even something that's so silly and camp and raucous and could so easily sort of go in a very different direction, thank God, the one that it has, is that there's so much respect around the material. And that isn't lost on you, even at this point, when you're recalling how much you wanted to be respectfully involved at the beginning, and then how much work you've put in through this entire process, through, as I said in the introduction, your sort of record-breaking ticket sales in terms of the box office on Broadway, being invited back, and then what feels probably quite a long way away from home now here in the West End, so early on in the run, getting your time to put your stamp on it.

And your performance is so different to Cole's, and it's so different to the other people, that it just feels extraordinary to feel the level of love that you have for this role, even at this point so far down the road, where, you know, some people do, if we're honest, become somewhat complacent with the material when they're in it, and that hasn't happened with you. It feels like your level of respect from that first conversation to now is equally as important and present, and you show up every single day. I don't know if this is true, I think it is that you haven't really missed any shows in either of the runs yet as well, like you're constantly present in that moment. Do you think that is a testament not only to the material, but also the fact that you know that this is a chapter you'll look at when it's no longer here, and probably wish you could go back and do it maybe just one more time?

[10:28] Jinkx Monsoon: Well, everything I mentioned about mine and Dayla's holiday show was how I related to Sam and Cole and told them, if I get to be a part of this, I know how important it is, and I want to treat it as importantly as I know it is to both of you. And so I think part of why I put so much of my best foot forward and give this show so much of my energy is out of respect, yes, but it is just also a very, very well-written and well-directed show. And you mentioned that my performance isn't anything like Cole's, nor is Titus's anything like mine, or was Betty's anyone? You know, there have been a handful of Mary's now, and now there's multiple Mary's at the same time. This is very unique and special. This doesn't happen with every Broadway show.

For it all to be happening at the same time just speaks to how hungry everyone is to see this thing. And I love that you really do have to go see the show to understand it. If someone tried to spoil it for you, you'd be like, I'm having a hard time. You have to see the show and experience it in the way that it was designed to appreciate it. And every night there are people who have never seen the show before. And hearing those gasps and those genuine reactions to a really well-crafted piece of theater gets me high. You know, that's why I'm not bored or complacent or anything. And then the other reason is because the actors I'm working with are all incredible. And every time I've gone into the show, the cast has been the most amazing people.

Sam Pinkleton is really, really good at casting a show and hiring a crew. Like, I have never dealt with a jackass on an Oh, Mary production, right? And that's not to say we don't have our bad days, but everyone loves their job, as far as I can tell, because it's really easy for me to go there every day and do the show because everyone is present with me. It's just a lot of respect all around. It's like the performers respect each other. The theater creates a very intimate backstage, but everyone is happy to be there because the show is so raucously joyful. And like I said, those gasps and the energy that comes from the people who have never seen the show before and are seeing it for their first time, for whatever reason, and there's just nothing like it. That genuine feeling of surprise and enthusiasm where you least expected it.

[14:05] William J Connolly: Do you think that's also one thing that makes it so unique to all of the people that play it, is because you are given that sense of ownership about what you can do with it? Because there's such a joy as an audience member of seeing so many different people do it. That's why people like myself, and I make no qualms about this, do want to keep coming back so many times. I mean, I've seen Cole do it. I've seen you do it. I've seen Bessie do it. I've seen so many varying different people, but then you've got like Jane Krakowski, you've got Maya Rudolph, you've got Alaska.

[14:30] Jinkx Monsoon: On the tour shortly. That's such a broad variety of people, Titus as well as you mentioned, is so many different people in one show playing exactly the same part in so many different ways that as an audience you feel so privileged to get to experience something new. And I imagine the same sense of ownership is also given to you as well to bring Jinkx's version to this show. Was it nice to be able to be given that sense of ownership and has it changed? Like has your Mary from Broadway changed to your British version of Mary perhaps?

[14:59] Jinkx Monsoon: I think every time I do a role, like, it gains new facets, you know. And it's so microscopic and it's so uninteresting to try to explain to anyone else. But here's a name drop. My friend Jesse Tyler Ferguson, who is playing Truman Capote in the show True in London. Now he and another friend, Charlotte D'Amboise, two of my favorite people, two of the best actors I know, and two of the most supportive friends I have, they came to see this show. And Jesse's seen me play the role before and he's seen the role countless times, like you said, has seen multiple people do it. And he was able to see all those little things. And it really made me feel good as an actor to know that, like, other people in the know are catching those things.

That's not to say the audience doesn't catch it too, because I've had audience members who have seen multiple shows. But to try to explain what's different, it's like, I don't know, I'm older, so she's different. I've lived more life, so she's got new experiences to draw from. But truly, I guess I'm one of those actors that gets everything from their scene partner. So if my performance feels different, it's because I'm working with different people and she has to adapt to a completely different set of circumstances. And so with a different cast comes different nuances and different tactics and different things you have to play because you can't just copy and paste a performance if you want to maintain that, like, present awareness and spontaneity in the moment.

[17:09] William J Connolly: I remember when I got the pleasure of seeing you do it in New York, from the second it started, it was raucous. People were screaming, laughing, shouting. Like, it felt, especially for a Brit who's used to very sort of quiet and content audiences, it felt wild. It felt like you were at a rock concert. And I was like, oh, it won't be like that in London. I was wrong. It absolutely is like that in London from the beginning. And while they might take five or six minutes to be able to warm up from the second you're on, it's crazy, crazy. Have you been surprised at how much British audiences have lent in to the comedy and in particular to the sort of call and recall response, which isn't particularly like audiences over here?

[17:43] Jinkx Monsoon: I have to say, I haven't been surprised because this is what my audiences are always like. And I mentioned Charlotte D'Amboise. She was my Roxy. She's also in True with Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So go see that show. I saw it in New York and it's very wonderful. It's like anyway, I don't want to spoil anything, but it's incredible. And it thoroughly inspired my End of the Rainbow performance because watching Jesse transform into someone we know while still maintaining the charm of the performer, you know, it really like inspired me for playing Judy Garland. Charlotte D'Amboise was my Roxy heart when I first did Chicago. And I credit her for like if I'm a good actress today than I was three years ago, it's because of Charlotte D'Amboise.

She is just such a pro and she's Broadway royalty. And to work with her on stage is to really put to test everything I was taught in drama school. You know, it was like, oh, my gosh, she's doing all of the things I've been told, like this is a present in the moment, ready to go professional actress. And I wanted to be more like her. And by the end of my run, her and I were just like firing off of each other. The same was true for my Velma Kelly, who was played by Lana Gordon. The three of us just really started to like energize each other. But Charlotte D'Amboise said, I love Jinkx's audiences. They are they scream and they're loud and and they don't just bring it for her. They bring it for the whole show.

They were like and I was like, is this not typically how this is here? And they're like, no, you brought this. And I have to say the reason I feel like it is that way is one, there is something so special about a very loudly queer person making it to these places. So the community aspect there is joyous. There's also all the people who have come to see all the cabaret shows through the years while I have been relentlessly saying, you know, I know where I want to go in life. And so there's that celebration. And then I think if you show up for your audience, they show up for you. So I do a lot to maintain the focus and energy required to play Mary effectively. And I think everyone can see it from start to finish.

And they match that intensity because they feel it in the air. I know that. So there's a lot of things at play here. I also think drag queens. I mean, come on, we make audiences scream. You can't help it.

[21:13] Jinkx Monsoon: I do also think you're absolutely on the mark of the first part of that answer, which was that I do think a lot of people have been longing for to see queer people in leading roles in mainstream productions and to be taken and I'm doing this in inverted quotes, but like, seriously, in a way that so often we're told the narrative isn't. And I know a big part of Cola Schoeller writing this. And one of the reasons what we've spoken about before in your involvement was like the fact that we deserve to be in these spaces that there was no opportunity. So go make that opportunity and fight for it. And as you said, believe in it and say you want to do it. And it feels like a celebration for everybody to see yourself, Cole and so many other people being given these opportunities.

And it feels like now it's happening. People are showing up and people are saying, and there we fucking go. We told you this was possible. You just needed to give us opportunity. And it feels like that is very present in a lot of people's lives. That's something I know that isn't lost on you throughout this whole process.

[22:08] Jinkx Monsoon: Well, it's what the show is about. The show is a farce, but that's what it's about. And that's why it's so special, the people in the roles bringing themselves to the roles, because if you look at the history of the people who have played this role, it's like we've all been around for a long time, right? One thing changed the world's mind about us. And all of a sudden, we were given those opportunities. For me, it's really happening in real time. This show is one of the ways I show the world what I've been talking about the whole time. And I think of just the iconic people who have played this role have basically all fought for themselves and advocated for themselves. And there have been mainstream names who were not always mainstream people who have a whole history of really putting in the time and the effort and the belief in themselves and the patience.

And it's like, I'm not the same kind of name as some of the other actresses who have played the role or some of the other performers who have played the role. But I, like we've mentioned, have put in that time. And the last few years, getting the opportunities that have been given on Broadway have been my chance to show everyone that I wasn't just, you know, full of hot air. I wasn't just being a nuisance. I actually have something to contribute here.

[24:03] William J Connolly: Do you think it's also why we see so many people through your social media and through Omeri's social media, both here and in New York, and also with like, as a reference, like the casting of Alaska on the tour as well, like that's why we see so many people, particularly young queer identifying people, Rainbow family members, showing up at stage door and wanting to talk to you and wanting to share with you how they feel seen because of you? It feels like we often feel this. We've seen it with other performances that I've felt I've seen on stage, but to actually be extroverted enough and honest enough to go and speak to that person and tell them is a deeply personal thing and very commendable to the people that feel they can, but people are really showing up at a huge, huge level now to talk to you and to, I think, to thank you based on social media about what you do for them. Are you aware of the sort of the level of those conversations and the regularity of it on both sides of the pond and perhaps what your performance does outside of a theatrical space?

[24:53] Jinkx Monsoon: Well, yes. Yes, and here's what I'll say is I give myself 30 minutes of social media a day in the morning, and then I have to cut myself off. And if I go past that 30 minutes, normally, I see something that, you know, the state of the world, I have to choose when I intake that stuff, especially when I'm in a show, because I do feel this responsibility of everything you were just mentioning. And also, this is a very joyful show. And any show you do, whether you do a tragedy or a comedy or whatever, you've got to find the joy in doing it so that the audience can pick up on that palpable energy. I think it's really easy to see when a performer hates what they're doing. I think that that. Yeah. Anyway, so the social media aspect of it, I don't really pick up on.

What I do pick up on is the people at the stage door, because each and every one of them remind me of me when I was their age and the roles that existed that made me believe, oh, my gosh, there's a future for me in this business. There's a future for me in the world. You know, like Hedwig and the Angry Inch for me was one of those roles. And John Cameron Mitchell also played Mary. And this kind of ties into everything. But like when I first saw the film, I suddenly felt like life was going to be OK for me, not because I identified with the character of Hedwig, but I identified with the person who created her. And I saw that a really beautiful film was made. And then I found out that it was a one person show.

And then it became a Broadway musical. And I watched it live all these lives. Right. And the fact that John Cameron Mitchell existed had me feeling like there are other people like me out in the world. It might be harder to find us, but I know we exist. And so I know that there's going to be places for me along the way. Like I think of the emcee in Cabaret as one of these roles, too, especially the Alan Cumming performance, you know, and I listened to that soundtrack on repeat and I just felt all the queerness coming through in that character and hearing that it made it to Broadway. You know, this queer, queer character was on Broadway and is in this soundtrack and I'm listening to it. So when I do the stage door every night and a young actor, whoever they are, however they might identify, tells me that they feel like there's a place in this business for them because they just watched this show.

Then I realize that, oh, Mary is one of those performances, one of those shows that is going to help people feel OK with who they are in this world. And the fact that it is being so celebrated by so many people, it's like it's supercharged from what I had 20 years ago, you know. And again, I got to take it back to the writing because the writing is so good in this show that you don't even have to know anything we're talking about. You don't have to be queer. You don't have to have this whole life of fighting for yourself. You can just.

[29:01] Jinkx Monsoon: Sit down in a seat and enjoy this show because it has everything a good show needs. This is all the stuff you can read into if you're a queer theater freak like you and I, but if you're someone else from any walk of life, this show is very well done and everyone leaves it really entertained and happy and a new person, frankly. And I say to myself all the time, the secret to this show is playing it like Shakespeare level stakes. And I don't think that's hyperbolic because the writing is so precise that you will come see it again, even though you know the ending, even though you've seen it before, because you want to see different people's interpretation of the same text. What does that sound like?

Sounds like Shakespeare. How many times does a Shakespeare play get produced? Over and over and over and over because the text is so good that we can keep going back to it and finding new facets, you know? So I just really think this is one of those special things that we are all going to talk about for the rest of time. It's going to go on the list.

[30:38] William J Connolly: I 100% agree. And what I think is so credible about what you just said about the experience at Stage Door is that while that is an experience from like an audience member slash fan to you, in this process of doing this show, you have also experienced that because I know that Michelle came to see you in London and RuPaul came to see you in New York and you got to be present and have people that helped, arguably one of the biggest chapters in your life, show up for you, for you the human being, in one of your greatest moments in your life, that they were a key part of being the start of that journey. And I know that that moment wasn't lost on you, that they showed up for you.

[31:15] Jinkx Monsoon: Yeah. RuPaul said one of my favorite things that's ever been said to me ever. And Ru asked me, remember when you were on season five and we had that Tic Tac lunch and you said you wanted to do Broadway? Did you think this was all going to happen one day? Did you believe that this was going to happen? And I said, well, I really hoped so. But, you know, I didn't know. And Ru says, bullshit. And I said, OK, maybe I thought, yes, this could all absolutely happen. Maybe, yes, I did believe in myself that much. And then Ru started laughing. And Michelle has been such a wonderful person in my life beyond what is seen on cameras, beyond what people know about from our touring together, like she has been a true family member to me.

And she always calls herself my stage mom, but she has been a very maternal figure in my life. And I just love her like very genuinely. And she is also a theater freak like us. And she's also a Virgo. And we actually have so much more in common than we have opposite. Really, our aesthetic is the only thing that is completely different. But anyway, her coming to see it, very special because she's also a theater actress and a singer. But she was the one that I shared a dressing room with in our drag vaudeville days. And her and I would belt out show tunes and no other drag queens would share a dressing room with the two of us because they couldn't listen to show tunes all the time. Like this is someone who I don't know, you know, when people say, I'm so happy for you, I wanted this for you.

Like, I believe it when she says that. I'm like, and I want it for her, too. You know, like I got to see her and everybody's talking about, and I know that she's going to have more stage roles. And I'm so happy that, you know, she's just very vibrant. She's very, very vibrant and living a really fun life. And it's like we just mutually are happy for each other.

[33:59] William J Connolly: I'm very constant times. My last couple of quick questions for you, if that is okay. Can I ask you about the mainstream theater roles that you've done and the variety in them, thinking about Pirates, thinking about, of course, your extraordinary performance in End of the Rainbow, thinking about Mary, both here and in New York, also thinking about Chicago and the other things that you've done that always feel like they're not predictable. I don't feel like I can ever sort of guess what you're going to do. And you speak about the art form and how, you know, you show up a hundred percent for things, but doing that is quite hard to find new things all of the time and to constantly be tested. But it feels like you're the sort of personality that likes to challenge yourself, be, you know, I find myself doing this sometimes stupid enough to be like, yeah, I can do that.

Ride a horse, can't ride a horse. But I feel like it's the sort of thing where you like to push yourself, challenge yourself and almost defy what you think you can pretend to even do to yourself by yourself. Is that an intentional decision? And do you think there's also an element of the fact that so many of us get pigeonholed into what people think we can and can't do, that there's a massive element of the fuck it, which is like, well, if you think I can't do it, then baby, I'm going to do it.

[35:06] Jinkx Monsoon: Yeah. Well, I got to say, I've been all over the place because, you know, in drama school, I think one of the things they try to leave you with before you depart is everything you need to not get typecast. But then there were also teachers who told me if you're typecast, then at least you know what roles to go for. So there's like, you know, you could see it either way. If you're typecast, you could lean into it and you could go fighting for every single role, you know, you're supposed to play. I was expecting a life of being typecast, like I was ready to be typecast. I was ready to be, you know, a very certain kind of character in every show. And my theater career in Seattle kind of proved that, you know, right out the gate, I was playing ornery children in children's theater.

I was playing character roles in Shakespeare, like I played Mistress Quickly in Henry V, as well as the serving maid to the French princess. And then Drag Race happened and the drag element started bringing in new opportunities, right? But I still was feeling like I know exactly which roles to go for as a drag queen. Like I know which roles would work as a drag performer. And then I transitioned and the world really very quickly accepted me absolutely as I was and my community embraced me. And there was the day that I had played Mama Morton once before announcing my medical transition. And then between playing Mama Morton the first time and the second time, I got the call for Little Shop of Horrors.

And this is off Broadway, but it's a long running production and hugely celebrated the longest running production of the show in history now. And they called me to play Audrey. And I was so convinced that my agent got it wrong, that they wanted me to voice Audrey to the plant. And I kept screaming, well, you do know the plant is also named Audrey, right? You're not telling me. Are you really telling me they want me to play the female lead? And he said, yes, they want you to play the human Audrey, the female lead who sings somewhere that's green. And all of a sudden, what I had expected for myself changed because Audrey didn't fit into the list of characters that I had planned for myself because I didn't think anyone would ever see me as Audrey.

And MK Rodriguez was the first trans woman in a prominent production to really kind of show the underlying nuances in that character. And then I got to play it in this production. And now I realize I'm the only person who's going to put limitations on what role I can play. So if I take those limitations off, no one can stop me from doing anything. And I've been very inspired lately by my new pal, Alana Eubach, who has been working for decades and has played absolutely everything and no two characters look alike. And I'm just like, fuck, yes, that's an actress. And I want to be like that.

[39:03] William J Connolly: It's so true. And it's so special. And actually hearing you recall these moments. And actually, as you said, in that example there with Bittleshop, the limitations that we put on ourselves are actually almost as getting in our own way and stopping us from reaching our dreams. And while it's understandable, the limitations often come from experiences that other people have said to us and the fact that we are weathered by the storms that we have to try and get through. It's so extraordinary. And I said it in my introduction, you being one of my favorite humans on the planet, that it's so extraordinary to see you soar and to see you as your best and to see you given the opportunities that you as a human being, but also your talent deserves as well.

And I feel genuinely really proud of the successes that you've done. And I will continue to show up for you every single opportunity that I do. And I'm so grateful for the fact that I get the opportunity to experience your power and your magic. And it's really something very special seeing you in these shows, in particular this current chapter. And thank God you got to do it here in London, because I think there's a lot of people that listen to me bang on about how great Jinkx Monsoon is live. You have to experience her live. And actually all those people have come full circle and said, I went, I took your recommendation. My God, is she a superstar? And I really hope that you feel a lot of the love that people have for you, because it's really genuine. And a lot of people, myself included, have a lot of care and love for you. So congratulations on this journey and so many others. It's so wonderfully deserved. It's really real, a real pleasure.

[40:22] Jinkx Monsoon: Thank you. Well, thank you, William. And I just want to say you mentioned magic. We know I'm a practicing witch. What I believe equals magic. This is what I believe equals magic. Intention met with toil. And I got this concept from the book Circe by Madeline Miller. Circe, one of my favorite characters in literature, a witch from the Odyssey. Samantha Morton played her in the new film. Anyway. Oh, she's so good. Anyway. In the book, she describes like, because Circe is inventing magic, basically. Magic doesn't exist before her in this book. And she, through her experimentation, realizes that the power comes from the intention and the effort you put into it. And I think that palpable magic that happens in the air at a live performance, specifically a really good live theater performance like this, you can see that it's equal parts intention and commitment, craft and toil.

You know, it's like, when I come off the stage dripping in sweat, because I have just done an 86 minute train crash. It feels really good. I feel like I ran a marathon and a lot of people benefited from it. Is this how runners feel? I hate people who run because I can't. I hate it so much. I hate running. I should have just said that. Why do I hate people who run? No, I hate running. I hate myself. There it is. No, no, no. Let me hate myself. It's a big part of the sauce. It's a key ingredient.

[42:33] William J Connolly: Oh, Jinkx Monsoon, a not so niche cabaret artist. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for coming to London for End of the Rainbow and for this chapter as well. I feel incredibly spoilt having banged on for you for so long. Please come to the UK and spend some lengthy amount of time with us.

[42:55] Jinkx Monsoon: You banged me when? I used to drink heavy. I would have noticed. It would only be disappointing and I don't want to deliver.

[43:00] William J Connolly: I love you so much. Wait, remember when you took me on a date to Company? What a night that was.

[43:14] William J Connolly: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at elevenpodcast.com or via the Broadway Podcast Network.