This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Rachel Tucker: My name is Rachel Tucker.

[0:03] Louise Dearman: My name is Louise Dearman, and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:15] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. Today it's time to double the action and double the fun as we welcome the witches of Oz that became global theatrical stars thanks to their top-tier belting and frankly hilarious nature. Not happy with banking nearly a thousand performances in the West End production collectively, one went off to star in the Broadway production, while the other stayed here and swapped a tiara for a broom, marking them the first person in the world to ever tackle both roles. With an Olivier nomination, solo albums, concert performances, cast albums, and every leading lady role that you could just about think of on their respective CVs, they've just one thing left to tick off their list, and that's record a podcast together.

So let's do just that as in their first joint podcast interview ever. Let's talk Wicked Witches, Belting on Broadway, Singing for the Queen, flying from London to New York to audition for Jenna in Waitress, and why they're both game for setting up Truckman Constructions if the calling happens. I promise it will make sense by the time you've listened to this episode. We're in for quite the ride, so let's kick it off. Prepare for laughter and a little bit more laughter as the silliness goes to a hundred. It's the gorgeous Rachel Tucker and Louise Dearman together on this, the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[1:35] William J Connolly: Just to let you know, due to the COVID-19 global pandemic, Rachel, Louise, and I connected digitally together, so please forgive any brief moments while we wait for the internet to catch up. Enjoy.

[1:51] William J Connolly: Okay, let's strap in as this is going to be quite something. Please help me welcome to the next episode. It's only Rachel Tucker and Louise Dearman.

[2:02] Rachel Tucker: Hello.

[2:03] Louise Dearman: Hello.

[2:05] William J Connolly: I love you two so much. This is going to be so much fun. I wish we could spend the next hour talking about all the things that have just happened, but that would take up another hour. So that can be our little secret, but thank you so much for being here. This is going to be so much fun. And we've got so much to talk about because you two are just this dream team of not only friends but work colleagues as well. You've obviously done a certain show together. You've obviously worked in concerts together. So let's explore all that. Let's celebrate that, and let's probably get you to tell some embarrassing stories about each other as well.

[2:40] Rachel Tucker: Absolutely.

[2:40] William J Connolly: So for like you're like in a script, it's like brackets, laughs. That's just what this is gonna be. I was trying to think what in the introduction. I started with Rachel and then Louise. So is it Rachel and Louise or is it Louise and Rachel? It's like I know there's the Tuckman ship name as well. What do I call you guys?

[2:56] Louise Dearman: I think well, yeah, Tuck with Tuckman a lot, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, well, it I mean, there's no rhyme or reason in the Louise and Rachel, and very much Tuckman, I think. Only because I mean we didn't come up with that, the fans did while we were doing a certain show. Um but and and it was cute and it was lovely, and it went, and we kind of thought, oh yeah, you know, and the any alphabet and Glenda that plays opposite each other, they kind of then from then on. Actually, that became a thing. But Tuckman is a pretty awesome one, isn't it? It just works.

[3:31] Rachel Tucker: There's a company, there's a there is a company or more than one called Tuckman, like a probably construction or something that I see all the time. Like we've branched into construction, it's not going, it's not going so well during COVID yeah but we're making loads of money in construction well what would the alternative be like so it'd be like dear Tucker Ducker we have definitely had this conversation before Docker I think that could say no I think Tuckman is a good one I think it's a safe one as well there are there's dangerous territory yeah so okay right let's just do Rachel and Louise I feel like we've gone all the way back to the beginning Rachel's is nice it it works it's cute and it's practical as well so first bit okay we've got through the introduction and we've established names so we're already halfway down the list of problems that we've managed to solve.

[4:31] William J Connolly: Rachel I wanted to say sort of congratulations and how are you feeling have you sort of come back down to earth after your rather special Twitter interaction this week I know you've got a special follower was it what about Lin Manuel following the old Tucker I did not know this.

[4:47] Rachel Tucker: So I was excuse me for saying filming an episode in Holby Sudley this last week when very early obviously within American time and the old woke up and there it was four o'clock in the morning Lynn Manuel Miranda is following Rachel Tucker. I did look into it and it's Lin Manuel Miranda's team still wouldn't necessarily be hit the man himself but I have to say I met Lynn a few times, and this was because Tas. This was because last ship when I did it on Broadway was closing. As Hamilton was blooming. We had the same producers. So our producers invited us to come and see. They were like, oh yeah, come and see this new show. It's like Hamilton. It's a light. And we were like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

Okay. We'll come see one of the previews of the public. Jaw drops to the floor. And then what had happened was because they hadn't opened the whole company, Lynn and himself included, who knew the lead, Michael Esper. They all had come to see Michael and it was the same producers, and they'd come and see last ship. And we didn't know this. And then when we were at Hamilton and we waited after the show to go, this is the best thing I've ever witnessed in my life. They were like, no, it's the cast of last ship. No. And we were like, shut up. I was like, he was like, oh my god, Rachel. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. And then I saw him in the street like a couple of months later. I was like, hi, Rachel. I was like, what is my life? It's Lynn Manuel born. Hi, cross street. So I don't think, I don't think he remembers me now, but I got a follow. So that's my Lynn story.

[6:31] Louise Dearman: Nothing ever happens like that to me. The most famous person that follows me is Rachel Tucker.

[6:36] Rachel Tucker: Do you know what I did? Speaking of followers, this is the cringiest thing you've ever heard. I go dip in and out of social media. I'm not very good. I'm a bit flaky with it. I'm either like really on it and like, yeah, ha ha ha ha doing silly things and then posting a video at me singing, and then I'm just on it, and then I disappear for a few weeks. And I disappeared for a little bit, and then I sort of checked in and I went, oh my god, I've like, I've got like an extra thousand followers. Straight popped on there straight away on my stories. Guys, thank you. So that's amazing. Thank you so much. I can't believe it. I've gone past the set, I've gone past the 7,000 for other people out there who have like got their tens, 20, 30s, thousands plus.

This is great for me. Thank you so much. Cut to two hours later when they all just disappear. And apparently it's something to do with like robot algorithms. And then your then your Instagram goes and it raises them all. So I was like, okay, we might talk about the fact that it's gone back down again. So I don't get a Lynn story. What's your friend called from East Enders?

[7:34] Louise Dearman: Samantha?

[7:35] Rachel Tucker: Yeah.

[7:36] Louise Dearman: Samantha Womac.

[7:37] Rachel Tucker: Womac Womac.

[7:40] Louise Dearman: You've got a couple of allies and you're on your team. I don't have a Lynn, do I? Louise, didn't you perform for the Queen?

[7:49] Louise Dearman: Yes, I did, and she's my friend.

[7:50] Rachel Tucker: I mean the Queen Lynn. That's pretty. I mean, they're probably the same to be fair.

[7:54] Louise Dearman: Yeah, that was it. That was um amazing and intense.

[7:56] Rachel Tucker: Where was that?

[7:57] Louise Dearman: The Festival of Remembrance.

[7:59] Rachel Tucker: Oh, I which I saw, which was incredible. I mean the press. What about like the national not the national anthem? You didn't sing the national anthem.

[8:06] Louise Dearman: Yeah.

[8:07] Rachel Tucker: Yeah, you didn't.

[8:09] Louise Dearman: Yeah.

[8:09] Rachel Tucker: In the most beautiful guy, unlike like the voice of England.

[8:13] Louise Dearman: You were that I thought I was going to be sick because I was so nervous. You know that feeling when it's slightly overwhelming. Because there were, I think, I think I might be making it up. I think it was 80 or 90,000 people there. And the roar of a football, you know, stadium is really tribal. And I just remember my heart has never beat so so hard. And it was a real moment of oh, calm down. Yeah, get it together.

[8:42] Rachel Tucker: Yeah. You see, isn't that funny that you say that? That that's the thing. And it's like no, it's like any other show that we all put ourselves through, right? Like you, I we wouldn't go on any other concert. You and I go on, you can mess this up because it's amazing. You you still go, don't mess this up, yeah. But the pressure that we go, like it's like a mental thing that you go, like the Queen's watching or like Lin Manuel watching, or you know, that that and it's and it's a psychological battle that I think we all you know, once you get to the grips of that, once you kind of go when you rationalise it and you go, Listen, a theater's a theatre's a theater. Same thing on Broadway, like you know, like you kind of dream like a dream making it on Broadway.

And I remember literally shaking and going, but what are you shaking for? It's a it's a theatre, yeah. It doesn't matter where it is. Yeah, it could be a fringe theater and pinch here or the South Girl. It's like it's still an you've still gotta prove your your your stuff to an audience. We just build it up, don't we?

[9:43] Rachel Tucker: As people Rachel, were you the same on the anniversary performance at Wicked? Then were you sort of like, Oh, I just want to enjoy it, or were you like, Holy shit, there's a lot of people here?

[9:51] Rachel Tucker: Um, which one?

[9:54] Louise Dearman: The 10th anniversary one.

[9:55] Rachel Tucker: 10th anniversary. It was a bit much, yeah. I remember Lou, tell William what I said to you in the car door, and then I'll say after about what in the 10th when we sat on the car, I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm absolutely yeah, yeah. You're like you nervous. I was like, No, no, no, she was at like absolutely like, no, not so. It's like I've done this so many times, but it you said afterwards that it was absolutely all a front, even to me, just to say, I have to say it's absolutely fine because if I don't, I will freak out so much that it will completely take over my performance. I need to just be like, I'm absolutely fine, of course. I know this show, inside out. I live and breathe it every day.

I know what I'm doing, absolutely fine. It's gonna be fun. I remember going, No, I can't wait. I was petrified, like beyond, and the producers came around, they were like tentatively knocking on the door at the time. They were like, hi, Rachel. Like, you know, usually they just come in and say, and they're like, How are you doing? I was like, fine, come on in, come on in. I was, I had never, I was never more scared in my life.

[10:53] Louise Dearman: Really?

[10:53] Rachel Tucker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was a big one. But I had to to make everyone else feel everything was going to be fine.

[11:00] Louise Dearman: I had already started acting.

[11:02] Rachel Tucker: Yeah. What were you scared of though? Was it the fact there were former cast members there because you knew the fans want something from you?

[11:08] Rachel Tucker: Those two things. Um, Stephen Schwartz hadn't watched the London production cast since he put it in 10 years earlier. So he was there in the audience that night, and I had just come off doing it from America. So I I was still trying to come down from an American accent to an English accent again. And for me, because I'm Irish, the American accent's easier than it is for an English, uh my English accent. So at the uh and for for about three weeks, I was still going, The wizard and so I had uh I remember going, come on, make it sound English, and there was a bit of pressure that way. Also, the staging was slightly different. It was there was the just there was a couple of things that you have to deal with in the moment on the stage on that night, that you kind of go, I have to like if have I been given a note from this the the director, and if I remember it in that moment, I will do it. See if I don't, I have to forget about it because there was too much else going on.

[12:06] Louise Dearman: Because I guess you had it sort of you were doing it backwards in a way, because obviously you have your Irish accent and you were trying to do an English accent, but then you were doing then doing you learned it in an English accent, but then you were doing an American accent, and then you were coming back as an Irish accent doing an English. I mean, even I'm confused. How do you even do that?

[12:23] Rachel Tucker: You just you try your best. If you've you're um I'm quite good at accent, I'm good enough at accents to kind of I've lived in London enough to kind of go, you know, it's not best RP accent, but you know, what it it passes, I think. And it was just the fact that I've done it for a year, like in American, and I just had to kind of change my tone and ear. And it was the the action, the scenes were okay. It was actually the songs that I couldn't stop saying in American.

[12:46] Louise Dearman: Yeah. It's interesting because I thought that on that 10th anniversary you'd opted for a Welsh alpha birth.

[12:52] Rachel Tucker: I almost choked amount of things. It's interesting you say that because for me, I'm just like, oh my god, who cares if there's Americanisms or that's an accent in there? It's like, and I wish that it's it's always the way, isn't it? When you're sat in the audience, you want the person, you want your friend on stage to feel the support and the warmth that you are amongst, and you just want to transfer that and and make that person understand that I know the fear you are feeling. I know, and I would be 20 times worse, but I wish that you could feel the buzz down here, and you could walk on stage and fart, and everyone would just be like, Yes, come on. It was just it incredible. So and also there was also like the or any exile who had ever played the road or London were invited.

[13:41] Rachel Tucker: And then we all got up at the end, didn't we? Which was just I was scared about doing that. I was like, Don't make me go up on the stage. Imagine if you're the one no one claps. That was the fear. I was like, Great. I think I was like on after Kerry or something, and I was like, Oh, brilliant. And then there's Louise Dearman, who's the only one that's done both roles, and she's a bit shy about getting off. Oh, it's just I mean I hate all that. I hate it, I hate it.

[14:02] Louise Dearman: I think it's fair to say that Rachel on that evening was what would you say? Moderate to average? I think it's a relatively fair performance. Um you know, just sheerate to average.

[14:17] Rachel Tucker: I don't want to talk about Wicked too much, but it has brought you both together. But did you guys know each other before Wicked? Were you friends there? I guess sort of when did you first become the unofficial Tuckman before we made it official with t-shirts and stuff?

[14:30] Louise Dearman: We did So Just End together, which for anybody who doesn't know is like a bit of a mock-up, uh Mickey take of all the musicals and sometimes characters and sometimes performers. Not done in a nasty way or anything, but just hilariously funny, written by Gary Lake. And within that, we played. I was Glinda and Rachel's Elphaba and did this whole thing. And weirdly, uh singing Defying Gravity and all the lead up into that, Glinda takes over at the end and completely takes over and starts singing it. Um and that's where we met and became friends. So when we got to auditioning, and obviously weren't really talking, so we're not supposed to talk about it. Um and obviously when you get cast, you're not supposed to mention it until the official announcement.

But of course, like when it bef when we got offered it and before it was announced, there's the have you uh you've been offered anything recently to uh in the West End sort of thing. It was just like it was nuts. So yeah, that's when we met. I think that was like a year before. Exactly for us, right? And then 2010, we went into the show. Um she was taking the piss out of Glinda and I was Elphaba. And then she took over, and then Lou actually went and did both of them. And that never would have thought a million years. And all before we knew we, you know, we were and for episodes. Some call it talent, I guess, others might call it greedy, perhaps, but you know greedy. Incredibly. At least she was good, you know. How awful would it be if you were shit and we were like, uh, what about green with envy? She had to go and play the role.

[16:09] Louise Dearman: Oh I feel a bit like I've said this to Rachel before, but I feel a bit like Elphaba didn't happen. That's a bit of a blur to me. It feels like it didn't happen, it feels like a bit of a dream. It's not as real as Glinda for me, just crazy.

[16:25] Rachel Tucker: Do you think that's because you enjoyed Glinda more because of perhaps slightly less pressure or by saying this, what I'm not saying is that I didn't enjoy playing Elphaba or that I'm not massively grateful, of course. But being honest, Glinda suited me better. It was just more me as an actor, as a vocalist. It did, and I would I I didn't ask to audition for Elphaba. It was the creative team and the producers that came to me and said, We're in auditions, we'd know you outside of the show, we've seen your concerts. Do you want to come in and audition? And I didn't jump at that chance because I thought, listen, I've watched Rachel up there doing it, and of course it's crossed my mind that I'd love to give that a go.

But God, I'd never have the confidence to think I could do it. I knew that it would it was not naturally in my voice, and it would take quite some work to achieve that. And it felt like I was constantly working as Elphaba to try and achieve that. Whereas with Glinda, I was just a lot more confident in what I had and what I had to offer as a performer and confident in myself. And yeah, that and and like you say, there is a sisterhood, and every single Elphaba will say, Yes, there is so much pressure. It's such a demanding, brilliant, beautiful role. Of course it is, but there is a lot of pressure on you know our shoulders, and you know, the comparisons which drive me nuts. It's like we were all cast because we brought something different and it's not about imitating the person that played it before and that took me a long time to get my head around because I felt like I did have to imitate and I did have to be what everyone else wanted me to be and it took a vocal coach to say can you please stop trying to manipulate your voice to sound like somebody else and please sing it like you because of your voice.

So it took for someone to literally say that give me a little bit of a um slap and just say come on take ownership over this but of course I loved it of course I did Rachel I could see you nodding throughout that was it but it's just it fascinates me that you know like I couldn't go and just you know I couldn't go and play Glinda and I think Lou she I think she's so much a much harder critic than anyone else out there who saw her play Elphaba. No one would have an inkling about her voice and that she'd be oh she's oh she'd be better she'd be a better Glinda she and and that's the thing us performers we are the hardest critics on ourselves yeah and you know and Lou you I think over time and looking back you probably went you've probably you know I think now you'd say to yourself you know I wouldn't be as hard on myself about it because yeah and the minute you realize you don't imitate somebody else you you know and you give what you have you know and you know the amount of times you know I just and I I watched Lou's Elphaba and I was blown away.

I couldn't. I remember thinking when I watched Lou, she made me doubt myself when I watched her Elphaba and Lou's like whatever right now on the screen. But this is the thing, Lou, in the moment when you're live and you're in that Elphaba, and you were you were being her as like as absolute as you could be. You convinced me. So it's yourself that I think that that makes you go, oh god. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's and it so we don't see your internal monologue and your internal, kind of like, ah, but actually, so and yeah, I I just I just have to give Lou credit for more more than I think that she gives herself credit for because she she blew me away. And I actually remember thinking I was I watched it with Julie Le Grand.

Me and we was our Madame Maribel, came back and watched Lou and we cried like her vulnerability. Lou's kind of just because I know Lou the way I do, her heart is the size of her body, and she can't do it for people. Right now, thanks, Covid. Okay, the COVID died. And she could, you know, she can't do nothing for people. And you just saw this Elphaba that you just wanted to go up and squeeze and hug and go, it's gonna be okay, I swear. And then she sings the way she sings, and you go. I just it just baffles me that she feels that way, the way uh her in her her brain, because it was incredible.

[20:50] Louise Dearman: I love you. That was a love fest.

[20:52] Rachel Tucker: I do fancy you.

[20:53] Louise Dearman: I know you do.

[20:55] Rachel Tucker: I'll be cutting that bell.

[20:56] Louise Dearman: That's gross. Don't do that. Don't they won't love it?

[21:01] Rachel Tucker: Hopefully by the end, Louise, you did you felt comfortable and happy with what you delivered. Hopefully, that chapter you look back and think, yeah, I did that, you know, and I'm proud of myself for doing that.

[21:10] Louise Dearman: Oh, I mean, I mean, I'm not sure I'll look back and go, Yeah, I delivered, but I definitely say I'm like I am so so proud that I got that opportunity. And I can say that I did that. That is still amazing to me.

[21:23] Rachel Tucker: Of course it is, yeah. Well, just to finish that, see when I was doing it in Broadway. So my um Nessa Rose and Bach used to come into me and used to ask me questions about Louise Dearman. Like they were fanning all over and the Glinda. She was like, So see when she goes, and and they would do this bit. I you have no idea in America, the kind of following and love. And they're like, no, but how can she do both? Because she's fantastic. She's Louise has no idea. The amount of the questions I got asked about her and her voice and how she can do both.

[22:00] Louise Dearman: God no, I need to get out there, don't I? 54 Below, we'll do a lovely cabaret. Get all the casting people in and become a Broadway star.

[22:07] Rachel Tucker: I'd love it. I mean, yeah, I'm just I'm not a very competitive person by nature. And so it's it's really odd. Yeah, it's it's a it's a weird one. I I'm not very good at going, I'm gonna do this and let's do this and go and do that, and I can achieve that. I'm just really rubbish. I'm like, oh, maybe I need to stay at home, see what happens, see what comes my way.

[22:31] Rachel Tucker: Yeah, with that attitude, I don't think you're gonna get far.

[22:34] Louise Dearman: Yeah, good luck.

[22:35] Rachel Tucker: It's not it's done, it's done her okay so far.

[22:38] Louise Dearman: It's not done me bad, but I've just been terrible at that. Terrible.

[22:41] Rachel Tucker: But Louise, you're you're so genuine, and I think I and people like so attracted to you because of that as well. You're so genuine.

[22:49] Louise Dearman: Nothing I'm not, I'm just mean you are so it's so it's you're it's so innate and you're Louise. What's your first experience in terms of sort of like that fandom bubble? Because we sort of talk about how I'm gonna say obsessed, but I mean that in a very polite way, the Wicked fans are. But was that your was when you're in Evita the first time you sort of experienced that core fandom that sort of followed you through lots of other things, or did it happen with other shows?

[23:13] Louise Dearman: Not to the extent that Wicked did. Um I had have lots of like wonderful, lovely fans that followed me because I did a lot of touring in my early career, you know, lots of big roles in small shows and small roles in bigger shows, and just did a lot of touring in my 20s and had lots of fans who would kind of follow me around from you know different show to show. Um, but Wicked changed things up. I wasn't as aware of it, let's say, with with the other shows. There would be people who would maybe you know wait at stage door afterwards to say hello and and get their program signed. But yeah, Wicked was a whole new world as far as the fan base and their loyalty and support when you'd have like the queues of people outside the stage door afterwards, and you're kind of looking over your shoulder thinking, who are you waiting for? It's it's still makes me think, wow.

[24:07] Rachel Tucker: Um you ain't oh my god. I would just be so nervous leaving the theatre because I know it'd look like shit having either been green or blonde, and then 400 people want your picture like no, no, get lost. No, no, it is lovely. I mean, it's uh always seem to live miles away and always rushing for a train and trying to be really polite and say hi to everybody and not be rude, but also thinking if I miss this train, I'm literally not getting home now until one in the morning.

[24:34] William J Connolly: Rachel, was it the same for you in New York? I mean, I'll I want to talk about Come From Away in a second, but in terms of Come From Away or Wicked, was was it surprising, if that's the right word, when you have you know armies of fans and people that want to see not just the shows that you're in the roles that you're playing, but they want to see you as the individual, the person who obviously has made a living and made a name on the other side of the pond, rather a long way away.

[25:00] Rachel Tucker: It's funny, there was definitely a like at the Wicked Stage Door on Broadway. There were um it depended what night it was, but there were fans, and but unlike London, I have never seen that because the regulars that we had to come in over time and time and time again. That I think Louise and I because we both did I think two contracts together, and I stayed for an extra one. So by the end of that third year, for me, the amount of people that knew I was still there were like, I want to come back and see it again, you know. So the regularity of those fans was not the same as in New York because New York it seems I think the ticket price is higher, and it's definitely more tourists in and out of the city.

You know, the the there wasn't so much regular fans at Wicked Stage Door. Um, if any, really I don't really remember the same the way Lou and I had. Maybe it's because Wicked London was a bit newer than than Broadway. It had been there maybe five years, four, four or five years more than that. Maybe that's why. I'm not sure. But I I I just I I think it's um I I love it, but like Lou says, you know, it gets to the point where you're like, you know, it's it is our jobs, and we come out and it's part of you kind of the fans really want to see you as an individual outside of the character because A, they want to see what you're like, and it's funny. I remember watching Idina Menzel from the front row in London, Victoria, and I wanted to see what the person was like outside of the character.

I remember going, it's really important to me to see what she is like at stage door, and I don't know why I needed that. Kind of was like, Come on, let's go. And I was like, No, I need to see her, I don't know why. But I remember I remember her like not wanting photographs, not wanting like, and I remember going, Wow, that's pretty. That's that shocked me. I was going, she's really not spent time with the people at stage door, but then having done the role, you go, you know, it's exhausting the role itself, and just being there every day and and then to come out the stage door to then put another face on it and go, Hi guys, thanks for waiting. And it's really tiring. So some nights, I I definitely, for one, I don't know about Lou, but I used to go out the back door when I just like or or I would have been rude to people at stage door.

[27:19] Rachel Tucker: So I remember having to go, there has to be a cutoff point for me. I either go out and put a face on it and go, Thanks a million, da-da-da, and spend a bit of time with fans, or else I go out the back door. It's really weird because you kind of like you say, you appreciate that part of it is part of your job. But I remember, and she won't mind me saying this because I actually asked her once. I said, I mentioned you in a podcast, and I just want to check that you're okay with this. And if it's not okay, then I asked them to edit it. She was like, absolutely fine. But Carrie Hope Fletcher articulated it really beautifully on social media once, saying, I need to say this because I've been so badly spoken to and treated once, being chased down the street by someone saying you should be disgusted with yourself.

You know, we've waited out here to see you. And she just said, It's it's I appreciate that you're doing that, but it's you have to accept it is our job, and basically, when we are going through that stage door or leaving, we are going into the office or leaving the office, and we're also human beings, we might feel sick, we might feel run down, there might be something personal going on, and after playing an exhausting role, um you just want to go home, and that might seem really harsh, and it's not you know, uh you know, unappreciated e unappreciating our fans. Is that even a word? That sounds really weird coming out of my mind. Yeah, it's not that, it's um we are just human beings, we are not robots.

And and also the the danger is sometimes you'd be out there for sometimes ten minutes, sometimes twenty minutes, sometimes half an hour, and it just it just ties you out even more. So it's just trying to make people understand. Of course, I'll say hi. Tell you who is like brilliant at this, Patrick Swayze. So when I worked with with Patrick in Guys and Dolls in London, like superstar, megastar, the most beautiful, generous human being, um, and everything, everything that you hope your idol would be. And you know, there would be crowds of people outside that theatre every night, and he would go out to stage door and he would stand and chat and say, you know, hi, thank you so much for coming. I'm loving it here in London.

I I won't do photos and sit because he said, Obviously, look at you all, thank you so much, but we'll be here all night. But I want to say I appreciate you, I really hope you enjoyed it. And it just shows people that there is an appreciation there, and he respects that, but also at home and he's just done a show, and if he stands out there and gives everybody the same amount of time, you're going to be there for hours, and it's really hard. It's a hard thing to get your head round. Um, and I battle with it definitely because I just constantly fear I'm being rude. You know, it's awful. And also, who wants to spend 10-20-30 minutes outside Wicked of Victoria when there's a McDonald's and Victoria Station, like hello. When we talk about the McDonald's and Victoria, the smells used to come through our windows. I want 20 chicken nuggets in a train ride home. You can start a program.

[30:18] Louise Dearman: A pint.

[30:24] Rachel Tucker: You might as well. You might as well.

[30:25] Louise Dearman: It saves you going back for more.

[30:29] Rachel Tucker: We were talking about Twitter and social media, but you know, you created a little bit of a Twitter storm this week in a good way when you posted. I think someone commented, I think you posted on your TikTok about Jenna from Waitress, and you replied saying I auditioned for it. And then my Twitter feed was literally like Rachel Tucker wanted to be Jenna, and then I was like, Oh, where's this from? And then obviously I looked into it a bit more. Because I think because you posted the video as well, people dared to dream what that might be like.

[30:54] Louise Dearman: What video?

[30:55] Rachel Tucker: How have I missed this? It's on that useful app called TikTok. I'm very new to it. I only follow Rachel talking about three dog accounts.

[31:03] Louise Dearman: But did you sing something? What what happened?

[31:05] Rachel Tucker: Um, William, can you explain a bit more? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.

[31:08] William J Connolly: I think it's a video from your concert in New York where you sang and you put an extract of she used to be mine, and I think a fan was like, Did you should play it? And I think you said I tried.

[31:15] Rachel Tucker: So I was doing Wicked 10 in in London, and their lovely Jesse Muller was leaving, and they asked me to come meditation for taking over for I did a self-tip, and they were like, 'Oh, we'd really love for you to be in the room because this is this is this is lovely, but would actually you know, you've a better chance if you so it's like okay, hold the phone. Um, Wicked London. I have a possible audition. Can I have a three-day holiday in in December? And they were like, Um, it's a bit hard for us. I was like, Yeah, bye. Went from New York to addition, had a lovely time, lovely edition, and that was it. No, didn't didn't hear, didn't get, didn't no. Uh lovely whoever took over from thing, but nice feedback. It was kind of a recall, it was nice, but no, didn't didn't didn't meet the standard.

[32:12] Louise Dearman: Whatever that's in the club.

[32:14] Rachel Tucker: Join the club, Lou. But and this is the thing, you know, people think, oh, well, surely you would all just get offered it, or and you don't, you know, like I am not the perfect fit for Jenna. I mean, some people might think that, or Lou, or but actually it's not up to us.

[32:31] Louise Dearman: No.

[32:32] Rachel Tucker: I mean, my dream role was always alphabet. Things aligned and it all came together at the right time, the right moment, the right year, the right everything happened for me. But it wasn't, it wasn't just to do with my talent, it was to do with timing and who had just left, and you know, what my age and like it's so incrementally ju the just of of alignment. So it it's not what what it takes to get a role. And also, as well, I think just because you don't get a role doesn't mean you couldn't do it, can't do it. Do you know what I mean? It's just a bigger, it's a much bigger conversation, as I'm sure you both know, sort of very well. But it's it was just an interesting comment how so many people obviously just dreaming and fantasizing.

So I spoke to um Casey Levy and she said the exact same thing. She was like, I've been in for it, I know I could sing it, but it just wasn't my time. And she sort of said, Maybe one day, and I love this idea that maybe it will happen or in another lifetime, or it's actually a live from the show, but you know, it's like maybe.

[33:30] William J Connolly: Rachel, let's talk about Come from Away, because it was the last job that you were doing on that famous place called Broadway just before COVID-19 happened. So I think you were literally, you'd literally just started. I remember watching some of the vlogs that you were putting up online and you were sort of doing the rehearsal process. So COVID-19 stopped that. But is there a plan for you to continue that journey in any capacity? Or is that perhaps the end of that chapter?

[33:51] Rachel Tucker: No, absolutely. And um uh we yes, we have been in contact with um come from away, the the management and stuff recently. And the the job, I believe, is there for me whenever it reopens. And I think that goes as as far as the Broadway company as it was left, is that's that's the the deal. I mean, there's I don't think there's any reason for, I mean, I had 10 shows to prove them that I couldn't do it on Broadway, but I think I think I proved it okay. But no, I um yeah, I so I'd done 10 shows. Well, I was just finding my feet again because I'd had a three-week break off from from doing it in London, and I had fitted in a pyre queen, managed to fit that in. And then and and I actually believe I had COVID.

I was massively under under, um, just under when I started, I I believe in in New York. And I remember coming off everyone, going, Oh God, that's such a struggle in my throat, my voice. And I bet you the the company we're all thinking of, you know, they've got this, you know, somebody over to do to step in for the captain, and she's moaning about her voice every night. And I was like, but I wasn't right. My voice and thrilling feeling body wasn't, I hadn't recovered when when we got our notice, and they were like, they literally said, Clear your dressing rooms out, we'll see you in a month. Go fly, Rachel, fly back to London. I'll see you in a month. And I was like, and I actually didn't clear my dressing room out, it's the same, I haven't touched it.

And yeah, so I was very happy to not do anything for a while because I was exhausted. But yes, the job should be, we hope, be there for me when we open back. That's that's and I can't wait. I really can't wait. I miss it so much.

[35:34] Louise Dearman: Oh, she was so brilliant, it's such a brilliant show. One of the best things I've ever seen. And and Andrew, my partner Andrew, was just literally like he just said that is one of the best things I have ever seen. Let's go again. And you know, he likes theatre because I'm in it, but he's not a theatre goer. But it was just like that was. I think he actually said that was mint.

[35:53] Rachel Tucker: Which is good, which is really good, guys. Also, I never knew that there could be so much sort of drama in sitting on a chair. I mean, every time I sit on a chair now, I'm like, right, I am Rachel Tucker. Like I'm on a plane.

[36:06] Louise Dearman: Oh, wouldn't that be nice? Sitting on a chair and going, I'm on a plane to spawn.

[36:10] Rachel Tucker: Oh obviously, most of my friends love theatre, so we have this sort of little in joke, which probably gonna absolutely bomb try to explain it to you. But I've got videos of me going on aeroplanes. You know the lyric that's like ladies and gentlemen, put your seatbacks, and I just love that lyric, it's just funny. So every time I'm on a plane, I'm like, right, let's do it. And it it's just enjoyable.

[36:29] Louise Dearman: I I actually went to try and help you there with that lyric, and I actually can't remember.

[36:34] Rachel Tucker: Cool. Contract good luck, but that is not a surprise, ladies and gentlemen.

[36:40] Louise Dearman: Put your seat back in trade table.

[36:42] Rachel Tucker: Oh, there we go. Also, I feel like I need to just point out, you know, when you said to prove yourself 10 performances, yeah.

[36:47] Louise Dearman: Yeah, what was that all about?

[36:48] Rachel Tucker: Yeah, you have an Olivier nomination for this role. You don't need to prove shit. Like I've just said about Louise. We all don't we all just go, ah, I know, but it's okay.

[36:58] Louise Dearman: So you were saying that you felt you needed to prove yourself, not that you were proving yourself because they'd said, Well, this is a bit of a trial run.

[37:05] Rachel Tucker: Yeah, no, no, no.

[37:06] Louise Dearman: Oh, I see.

[37:07] Rachel Tucker: Sorry.

[37:09] Louise Dearman: Oh good.

[37:11] Rachel Tucker: No, no, no. It was definitely not a trial run. But I was like, you know, they've just flown me over, and there she is, and they're like, Yeah. And I'm like, ah, Miyama's girl. I just felt it was such an effort. Um, for the for 10 shows, and I felt like I wasn't on form. I remember you sending me a photo of you with that like breathe oxygen mask on, and I was like, Whoa, hi am I doing 10 shows? Or how am I only doing 10 shows and I've got like a steamer on my face?

[37:41] Louise Dearman: Yeah.

[37:42] Rachel Tucker: So I just needed a break, is really what I needed.

[37:45] Louise Dearman: Well, you've had one. Get back.

[37:47] Rachel Tucker: Come on.

[37:48] Louise Dearman: Come on. Get on that fucking stage.

[37:53] Louise Dearman: Rachel, it's about sort of just quarter past nine now, so I'm very conscious of time. So it's obviously soon to be bedtime, which is the best segue.

[38:01] Rachel Tucker: Come on, it works.

[38:02] Louise Dearman: Oh I didn't even see where you were going then.

[38:06] Rachel Tucker: I was like, I'm like, here we go.

[38:09] Louise Dearman: So yeah, everybody, everybody Lou takes a nap, like Lou goes to bed for nine o'clock. That's what that is.

[38:15] Rachel Tucker: You I know I don't well.

[38:21] Louise Dearman: She goes to bed to listen to herself.

[38:23] Rachel Tucker: Can you imagine if you were like just gonna pop in Louise Demon? Andrew Shush, I'm just gonna listen to my podcast.

[38:31] Louise Dearman: It's so amazing, and obviously, you we were talking before about the fact that you actually created this project in lockdown. You sort of finished it off and released it to the world during this time.

[38:40] Louise Dearman: Well, finished it.

[38:40] Rachel Tucker: We'd started it just before.

[38:42] Louise Dearman: It's taken so long because I thought about it when I had Willow. I thought I'd love to do a lullaby's album, then just didn't do it. Typical me of just having this little idea at the back of my head and not cracking on and doing it. Um and then I think it was like maybe six months before lockdown. I spoke to Ben Robbins, who produced the album, who's produced many of my albums, and he was up for doing it. And I said, I've got a real idea for it. I don't want it to just be twe little lullabies. I want you know adults to enjoy it, people who have kids, people who don't. I want the little sounds in between the songs to relax people, all of that. Then lockdown happened, and we kind of said, Well, that's that for a little while then.

And then I sort of went, No, it's not, because I've got all the gear, no idea. You know, we can do this, and we finished it and just went ahead and did it, and it was hard because it's the first album we'd just done all ourselves. But I was really, really proud of it, and it's just something a bit different. And it's another thing I think to escape the the fear and the boredom and all these things that we feel uh the panic, anxiety of what COVID's done to us all, just to have a focus. It was like therapy for me. It was brilliant.

[39:50] Rachel Tucker: And was it an excuse to test out your daughter's vocals?

[39:54] Louise Dearman: And it's always into the unknown, and it's really I mean, that girl's got some lungs on her, and she just really goes for it. And I'm like, you've got a real like the belt is open, it's forward, it's twangy. Teach me, mate, because I can't do that. But not many people know, right near the end of the album, there's like um sort of little interlude bit, and really faintly in the back, you hear her not singing but saying, Good night, Mama, I love you, and it's just kind of on a little loop, and you can't, you can if you know it's there, you'll hear it.

[40:08] Rachel Tucker: Good night, Mama, I love you. She loves to sing along. She's always singing to Rachel on FaceTime.

[40:30] Louise Dearman: Yayel.

[40:31] Rachel Tucker: Yay, so I if I adore Louise Darren's voice notes, I I keep because Louise will be like, Oh, business, business, Rachel, so listen, it's this, it's this, yeah, today. And like she is absolutely trying to make me hear her.

[40:48] Louise Dearman: That's knows it's me, and she goes, Yeah, yay, Joe! Yay, Gigi.

[40:52] Rachel Tucker: And I she is this, so I cannot get over how sweet she is.

[40:57] Rachel Tucker: She was and her voice is fantastic. It's very funny because she gets all the like emotion, she's like, I can hear you, but I don't, or whispered, some lick trouble, but others don't. And the god, the role play. I mean, it's testing my acting bones or what I'm every every freaking day. I'm Anna, never get to play Elsa. And if I do, I have to frozen her. That's it. She's like, Mama, frozen me. I'm like, frozen. And she drops on the floor, and I've got to take her to the trolls. It's relentless. But do you know what? It's the only opportunity I'll ever get to be in frozen. So I'll take it. I'm just not getting paid. And Ben was the opposite. Like, I could I can't get Ben to sing, he wouldn't act a thing out.

No, I put musicals on. He's like, turn that off. Well, Willow was like, Mummy, please no, when I used to sing when she was smaller. She's like, Mommy, no, please no, like really getting genuinely upset. I'm like, people pay. But now she quite enjoys it. And sometimes she says, Mama, can you put on my album? Because she knows it was all about her. Because Ben is on in small bump, right? So and he does he's a little gig, a little giggle that we put in because I was pregnant with him when I was doing the album, and then he I bore him, and then um and then it was like three months finishing it off, and so yeah, we'll put a little giggle at the end of small bump.

[42:21] Louise Dearman: Yeah, there are so many other different roles and shows, concerts, people that you both know. I mean, it's we could literally do 10 of these podcasts. Well, like we should do a literally do a Tuckman series. I could we could make some maybe we could make some good money out of this. Maybe we could be millionaires by the end of the week. But I want to play a little bit of a game. Louise, I'm gonna put you in the waiting room, which is so brutal because I'm gonna ask Rachel some questions about you, and then I'm gonna invite you back. It's basically Mr. and Mrs. But we're gonna go. Oh no, this is gonna be awful. Okay, my memory. I didn't even know said brothers. Exactly. I was gonna say okay. So let me see if I can do this. Please don't leave. Oh, this is horrible. Put in waiting rooms. I love this. This is brilliant. Okay, Rachel Tucker, let's see how much mischief we can cause now. So what is Louise's favorite song to sing in Wicked?

[42:52] Rachel Tucker: I was gonna say popular, but I actually think I think she would say I think because I'm here, not because I'm here, but I think she might say for good because of our relationship. But if she was thinking more individually for herself, I think the song that she really adored singing was the opening of act two, and I'm not sure of the name of it, but you know the thank goodness. Thank goodness, thank you. Thank you, William. So when it's not about me, I don't know any information, as you can tell. I used to watch Louise from the side of the wings and just watch that girl soar. In fact, Wicked Broadway, that was the questions that my my Mike Lynn over there used to ask me. She's like, when she sings a certain note, she's anyway. I think she would say she enjoyed the most singing thank goodness she may say popular but I think she'll say for great let's see I bet she I bet she picks a completely different song.

[44:15] Louise Dearman: Yeah I do but she's gonna say as long as you're mine isn't she when she played Elvola or I'm not that girl okay the next question what is the one habit that you have she thinks is funniest what's the funniest thing that you do that she'll say like Lou's known and maybe for her comedy chops a bit more but when we're together and specifically off camera like I I know I make Lou laugh a lot I think she'll say I'm funny I think she I'll say she makes me laugh I make her laugh but I'm not sure as a habit what I would do I can't see my habits do you know what I mean it's hard it's a really hard one to maybe we do comedy because that's if that's one thing you think she likes maybe that would be the first thing yeah I think she'll I think she'll say something like she she makes me how she makes me laugh not that I think I'm dead funny.

Funny when you get like a chemistry like Louise Dearman and I we just we just click and we make each other like click and bond and and whether that's laughter or whether that's like singing together the way we do it's just it's it's a mixture of things.

[45:26] Rachel Tucker: So I think she might say laugh. What's the one role that you think Louise would still like to play? Probably Jenna and waitress. And she absolutely should and could. Um, because we mentioned it there, but but also like I I think currently, absolutely, Jenna and waitress or um the mom and dear Evan Hansen. This one is gonna be dangerous, so let's see how we get on with this one. What would be the three words that you would use to describe yourself that you think when I say to Louise, how would you describe Rachel? She'll say. Oh my god, these are hard. Um she would say, I think she'll say generous. This is what I would like to think Lou would say as well. Generous, funny, and caring. Let's see if we can get her back and let's see.

[46:17] Louise Dearman: Admit. What is happening? Okay, I hope your ears were burning because we were talking about you a lot. Don't worry, there's nothing bitchy. Like, what's the one thing you hate about Louise and it's not that? Oh, we ain't got all day. It's a short podcast. Okay, let's start nice and easy. What does Rachel think your favourite song to sing in Wicked is?

[46:35] Louise Dearman: Uh, the toss up between for good and popular. Bang. Did she say both? Boom. But I also said if she was thinking, because she always thinks about her about somebody else, if she was thinking individually, what would your favorite song be? What did you absolutely adore singing? I'm gonna get it wrong, I know, but no good deed. No popular then. Good name. And oh did you not ask? Oh well, here we go with the words and the doublers. Shit, shit shit. As it's like, get it right. Oh, you oh I remember it that taking a long time to get the top everything right. But I love, yeah, I loved singing it, but I I'd say popular as Glinda and no good deed as alphabet, but for good was always a special one. We do it now and we get all teary, don't we? Terrible. It is, it's it's emotion.

[47:35] Rachel Tucker: Like Louise, what is Rachel's funniest habit? I'm hoping this is you. It's absolutely cracking up at sneezes. That is you, isn't it? But it's not that. Oh my god. She finds sneeze is absolutely hilarious. So if someone does it in the audience, that is it. Like, how can you find a sneeze so funny? She's gone. But funniest habit. No, no, no, that is that's a really good one. I wouldn't have said that because I don't remember that I do that. But I think that's the as in like the funniest thing to me is that you find that so funny. The goat in in Wicked at one point had to sneeze inside his mask. I could not finish the screen. Awful. Dr. Delphine! I was like, Dr. Delophant. So every time Stuart Ramsay was on as Dr. Dillamond, he used to just really have to try not to laugh and like get the giggles.

I say, what is it? He's like, it's just your face. And I was really trying not to. I was like, what? I'm not, I'm really in it. It's like I can there's just something. Your eyes, there's like a glint. I can't. Anyway, oh my god. Um habit, funny habit. I say that I just what would you what did you say then? I can't think of I didn't really. Funny habit. That is the funniest one that I can think of. That's a good one.

[48:59] Louise Dearman: Rachel said that she thinks you think that she's rather funny and rather silly, and that you're Oh yeah, but that's not a habit, that's a personality. I know, but and that's only because I couldn't think of anything. But I do know what I love about Rachel as well, is that we egg each other on as far as the kind of like we went on stage at the drive-in over COVID and we're going, Mom's allowed. Like mom's allowed. We're mums allowed, come see mums aloud in the house. Just we egg each other on to just be silly and have fun and not take ourselves seriously. That's that's what I love. And also the answer I forgot to say, we really don't take each other and ourselves seriously, especially when we're together.

And I think that's why we love working together as well, because we're we're not clashing, we're both going, yeah, this is what we want. In fact, I'm the one that'd be like, let's do this because this is like that that's safe. And she's like, nah, let's do this because this would be funny and this would be out of the ordinary. And I'm like, yeah, that was she said. Yeah but the sneeze thing is is yeah, isn't a thing. Just reminding me of the sneeze thing. That's burning. Brilliant.

[50:07] Louise Dearman: Rachel, what does Rachel think is the one role that you would still like to play? Oh I still what that I still that I could play now. Yeah, or that you'd still sort of have on the wish list. What what would you still like to do? Um if I'm if I'm thinking like old school, something that years ago would have been like, I just really want to do that, and now my time has gone, it would probably be Fontaine in Lay Mires. Nearly said that. Did you? Nearly did. But you know, uh can you give me a clue like as far as is it something more modern? Yes. Would it be Jenna? Yeah. Well Yeah, that was a that yeah, that definitely that's one that I'd I'm like, I'm not too old for that. I could still do that shit.

But yeah, I'm just a massive uh Sarah Burrellens fan for a start, but also yeah, that role. You know what I love? The fact that you know, we you know that we both would love to play that role, and we both can say, oh, wouldn't that be lot wouldn't that be brilliant if you said that? Wouldn't that be great? And you know, and it's all right, okay. So maybe it hasn't come our way, but like William, like you said, it doesn't mean to say we couldn't. Yeah, yeah. And it's really interesting because I've especially since the whole Elpha Buglinda thing, I don't ever think of a role as uh or rather if I were to cast it that there's a type. Yeah, I look at what I'm like, that person would be great for that.

Not because they're similar to the last person that played it, this because I know them as a as an actor, and I'd think God, you would deliver something beautiful with that. And it's uh yeah, I wish it was a I wish it was a bit more like that in the industry.

[51:42] Louise Dearman: But okay, final question. So what are the three words that Rachel thinks you would use to describe her? Trustworthy, hilarious, honest. I mean, they they could be used, they could be equivalent. What did you say? Rachel says generous, fun, and caring. Yeah, so hilarious, fun, caring. I like try I just trust Tucker. And she's always honest and she'll always tell me exactly how it is and what she thinks, and yeah, you're all those things as well. Listen, the list is longer than three. So I'm afraid on this game of Mr. and Mrs., there's no cuddly toy, there's no car, there's no holiday. I'm afraid you haven't won anything. I'm sorry. But we still love each other, and that is what is important.

[52:29] Rachel Tucker: Well, this time has gone so fast, like, and I'm not even joking. I wish I could show you the questions I asked. I've asked about three of them. So we could look at it. Sorry, we'll have you? I'm sorry. No, don't apologize. It's better than when you're like, yes, no. It's like, cool, this is a great podcast. Hearing you give one word answers. Not with us. I adore you both so much. Thank you so much for giving me your time today. I know we've all got to go put Louise's album on, so I'm very conscious that we are past the bed. Yeah, that'll send you off. Send you off to sleep. Well that on. I know. I mean, that's that's the one album. You can say listen to this. It's corner. This will send you right off to sleep. It works a treat. Two songs in, you'll be flat out.

[53:05] Louise Dearman: But Truckman, that's gonna be my new one. Truckman Construction. How can I help you? The waste that needs to be on our next show. Truckman Construction. Yes, truck room construction. How can I help you? Hard hats on. Sorry, well, we've gone off on a tangent now with yellow hard hats and truck now in construction. Oh my god. That's too funny. I'm not sure where to go from here. I'm not sure how to say thank you or goodbye in a way that feels like it works. But um thank you so much, William. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. And I will be taking 20% of Truckman, so my age. You're joining the team. William, thank you. Honestly, you're a dream door. Don't do that. I just wanted to end on you giving me a compliment because then I can cut that play.

I just thought you were going to keep going with this with the compliments. I was like beautiful, humble. Wonderful, beautiful, humble person. This podcast is the best. Absolutely. Yeah, we're still on record. Okay, yeah, we've got that. Um we haven't done any for anyone else together. Fact. We actually haven't. But no, I joke. Let me turn this off for a second.

[54:13] William J Connolly: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at elevenpodcast.com or via our official social channels.