This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Peppermint: Hi, my name is Peppermint, and you are listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:16] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts. And what a guest we have today, iconic and historic. She grabbed the hearts of the world on competition reality show RuPaul's Drag Race, serving looks and delivering some rather insane lip syncs. Her appearance on the programme also made history at the time, marking her the first openly transgender star to compete. Putting her newly found platform to great use, she's now one of the leading voices within the LGBTQ community. And while she's out fighting the good fight, she's also making history once again as the first transgender woman to originate a principal role on Broadway in musical Head Over Heels, a show co-produced by Gwyneth Paltrow and directed by Tony winner Michael Mayer.

So it's safe to say she's quite the tale to tell of success and pushing for a brighter tomorrow for all. So let's hear less from me and more from her as we discuss making history time and time again, while she thinks it might be right for theatre to adapt to the ever-changing digital world, singing in Times Square alongside some of the greatest, meeting President Biden and her passionate plea to the creative and arts industry to show up and deliver in their promise to include everyone. Direct from the US of A. It's my dear friend and all-round superstar, Peppermint on this, the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[1:41] William J Connolly: Just to let you know, due to the COVID-19 global pandemic, Peppermint and I connected digitally, so please forgive any brief moments while we wait for the internet to catch up. Enjoy.

[1:57] William J Connolly: She's gone from the drag race runway to being a history-making Broadway star, internationally recognized activist and a leading figure within the transgender community. She's also somebody I'm incredibly proud to call a friend from across the pond. So it's an honor to say, Hi, Peppermint.

[2:11] Peppermint: Hello, darling.

[2:14] William J Connolly: How are you?

[2:14] Peppermint: This is such a pleasure. I'm so excited. I'm so happy to be somewhat reunited with you again.

[2:21] William J Connolly: I know it's like a virtual hug. It's like this thing of Zoom, which I know we're all so sort of sick of now, but it means I get to see you, which is a big bonus. So I'm gonna get over that and just wrap my arms around you and say virtually hello, and it's such a pleasure.

[2:31] Peppermint: Well, um the hug, the virtual hug is very well received and sending back. So thank you very much. It's been an incredibly busy year for you as well, even during the pandemic, which has just been amazing to see you be involved in so many different things. I obviously, of course, follow you on social media and you've just been able to work and sort of put yourself out to the world and be incredibly authentic. And it's always a pleasure to see, even when you do feel so far away. So I'd like to talk about that, but also talk about some of the amazing things that you've done in the world of theater because you do love theatre. And I love the fact that you obviously went to school to train for theatre as well.

You have this massive passion for it. You and I have spoken at great length in person about musicals that we love, musicals that we don't love, which was very surprising. So let's try and dive into all of that. But before we do, I want to talk about a video that you posted literally not too long ago, which was you celebrating the fact that theatre within New York and Broadway in particular is going to be coming back this summer. The wait is finally over. We get to finally get theatre and Broadway back.

[3:27] Peppermint: And you just performed, I believe it was a section from The Wiz. I believe I'm right in saying it was home, right?

[3:31] Peppermint: Yeah, I did. Um there was a big performance put together by the Times Square Theatre Alliance and Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. Basically the arms of the theatrical community here in New York City. They wanted to get a bunch of theater people together, not only performers, but also people behind the scenes, to send the message to the world that we are ready to come back to work and to remind them that theater folks have been some of the people who have been the profession has been completely closed. It's obvious that many people have been dealing with a lot of hardships during the pandemic, and lots of individual businesses have closed, lots of um, you know, people have lost their maybe their individual revenue streams, but uh it there's not that many industries entirely that have been completely closed, you know, with the exception of live performance, you know, like those, those other like nightclubs and bars and things like that.

But even bars have been able to open in some capacity. In the states, theaters have just been closed. And Broadway has been closed since March uh 14th, I want to say, uh 13th or 14th when we when the lockdown initially happened in the States. And so those folks have been out of work. I know really promising actors, I won't say names, had I worked with in one capacity or another, who was getting their big break on Broadway and was now taking over a starring role in one of the show in the show that they were in. That was their first debut for performance was I think like March 4th or 5th or something like that. And uh they were taking over. And then the show closed, they got sick with COVID. Lots of other people in the cast got sick with COVID, and then the show closed.

Um, I don't know if the show's gonna reopen, but that person uh probably around June, said, you know what, I'm leaving New York. I'm not gonna work in theater anymore. And this person's like 27, you know, um, starring on Broadway for a week. And so, you know, it just was a reminder that we've been affected. Uh, you know, a lot of people don't talk about um theater actors, um, you know, when they think about folks that have been um heavily affected by by COVID. And uh so we wanted to send a reminder to the rest of the world that we're still here. And this was of course ahead of any of the announcements that Broadway would be officially opening up um in the fall. And so uh we got together and I think we did like six songs.

Um, uh several, I don't even know how many um performers, probably maybe 50 performers. We didn't rehearse in person because of the pandemic, and for safety, we rehearsed individually and then on the morning of got together, everybody kind of knew what we were supposed to do. We had a little walkthrough. Everyone had their masks and their things on, and we um and we did the thing. And I I was so um honored and humbled to have been asked to sing with uh be a part of this and have been thought of, but then to sing alongside um, you know, some of the greats that um I've looked up to for so long.

[6:46] Peppermint: Um, Andre DeShields, uh Cheetah, Cheetah Rivera, Lilius White, you know, um, I was beside myself. I mean, that list of names is like top tier. I mean, that's literally like dreamland. So to get the opportunity, as you very much deserve to, to sing alongside there. Must have been obviously, of course, great sadness that it's taken this long to get there, but also really exciting for you to go, holy shit, I'm getting to perform with these people.

[7:12] Peppermint: Most of that kind of like stupefaction was before before that day of, like when I was rehearsing, when I was like, Am I singing this? And at first I was like, This is not my key. This is not my key for the song. Like this, I was like, the song is too high. It's not my key. And I was like, Well, how am I gonna do this? Um, and it was a but I was like, you know what? Shut up. You're getting to sing with Lilius White. So just shut your mouth and just even if you screech and sound terrible, it is what it is. And so I did my best.

[7:46] William J Connolly: Well, you might have been screeching and thinking you sound terrible, but I tell you what, you certainly did not. It was amazing. It's such an incredible performance. I did want to pick out one of the comments, which I just adored was from your friend Chandler, which said, Out here doing the Lord's work, I love it. And I thought that's how I feel watching it. It was literally like a religious experience and just a blessing to get the opportunity, especially from so far away, just to feel like I was at least a little bit part of it, getting to watch you perform.

[8:10] Peppermint: It was, you know, there's a there's a uh choir called Broadway Inspirational Voices, uh, which is just a choir of a bunch of Broadway performers. And they wrote there was an original song that they performed, uh brand new original song that was so touching and just talking about coming back and that we're strong and that we, you know, we're um you that there's sort of like a it felt like a very religious experience. It wasn't, they weren't necessarily singing about church or God or anything like that, but they were singing about the joy of performing and the connection that we have as as um as people and as uh theater performers, not only with each other, but then the actual like physical connection.

[8:55] Peppermint: Um, the the I don't even want to say the virtual like exchange of energy, the actual exchange of energy uh that happens in a in a theater when a performer is uh there with with a live audience. It's something that no one that you just it's not able to be replicated with the technology that we have, no matter how many screens, no matter what type of sound effects, no matter how much surround sound, or even if they had smell of vision, it just what wouldn't it wouldn't um come close to the palpable energy that's in the room that you can feel. And so that was that was so I don't know if it was just the the performers that had so much pent up energy that it was explosive when we were there, or I don't know if it's the fact that I've been devoid of this energy the whole time, that I've been that I'm extra sensitive when I receive it. Whatever it was, it was extremely emotional.

[9:52] Peppermint: Can you imagine what that first night on Broadway is going to be like when the orchestra starts up on the individual?

[9:57] William J Connolly: No, most of the shows that are going to um be performing when Broadway opens will be um uh shows that are resuming, probably with a new cast, but um it will feel like opening night, but it'll feel like it'll feel like more than opening night.

[10:14] Peppermint: It'll feel like it's literally the opening of, you know, like we're in a new era. The first performance opening night in a new era, a new millennia feels like, of uh performance. I'm sure that the obviously they're going to take protocols. People are going to be entering into live theaters with a different state of mind, thinking about safety in a different way, thinking about, you know, um their proximity to other people in a different way. Uh maybe it's more um something that we don't take for granted as much anymore, at least us in a year, nobody will probably care. But you know, right now we are um we know that that could change at any minute, you know.

[10:59] William J Connolly: Have you thought about what show might be the first one that you go and see once everything is back open again?

[11:04] Peppermint: I'm intrigued to see Princess Diana.

[11:09] William J Connolly: Me too.

[11:10] Peppermint: Intrigued.

[11:12] William J Connolly: Well, it's gonna be on Netflix, so you might not even have to go.

[11:15] Peppermint: I know.

[11:15] William J Connolly: But I think in person, let's always let's always opt in, you know, rather than watch on the screen.

[11:19] Peppermint: Yeah, it's uh I I I did watch Hamilton on I actually never saw Hamilton um in well I did, but I'd never seen it on Broadway.

[11:29] Peppermint: Um, I saw uh I saw it in a different city. And so I was able to watch the show uh on Disney. I wonder, I'm still trying to figure out like I know in 60 years, a hundred years, you know, eventually there won't be physical theaters. Eventually there will be just us flying around in spaceships. Maybe they'll have theaters in the spaceships, hopefully. Uh, but at some point there everything's gonna be digital for at least um a while. And so I'm trying to figure out if I like to see like plays on film um staged as if they were in a theater or staged and kind of um filmed at like a TV show. I'm still trying to figure out which of those two I like if I was gonna watch it. So I don't know. I I might not watch the Netflix. I might just opt to go and see the um the live show.

[12:25] William J Connolly: Yeah, me too. I'm very intrigued. If I can get a ticket. I mean, that's the thing. It's very popular. And actually, the reviews and sort of the word of mouth beforehand, particularly for Diana was very good. And certainly see what that's like. But I do think that plays work on screen. I know that the UK has National Theatre Live, which is incredibly successful. And I love that. But again, I sort of feel like you, I've sort of had my reservations about musicals on screen. I loved Hamilton, but I obviously I think because we're theater people, we just we just love it even more in person. So yeah, let's let's wait and see what happens when theater comes back. But do you remember the very first Broadway show that you ever saw?

[13:00] Peppermint: Yes, the very first Broadway show that I ever saw um was Rent, the original cast of Rent in 1997 or 99, or something like that. I saw 1996. Uh I beg your pardon. Oh, I'm I am so sorry. I'm gonna get so many people pick me up on that now. Oh no. I saw it in 1996. Uh and uh it was a I remember it was uh it must have been probably January. It was cold, and we went to um to New York. My uh I was in high school, and my uh like one of the drama teachers on the drama staff uh brought me with their boyfriend, who was also another teacher. Well, we'll talk about that. Um who uh we went up, they drove me up. I'd never been to New York, uh, and we didn't really get to spend much time. We literally drove up after school and went up to New York, got there probably around six o'clock, went to have some food, and then went to the show.

And uh it was during the time that time they were um collecting for uh Broadway Care's Equity Fights AIDS, and uh they had their buckets, they were doing their uh collections, uh donations from the audience. And I got to meet who did I get to meet. Oh, it might have been Gwen Stewart. I mean, I know the entire original, most people probably don't know the names of the actors that were in the show, but um uh afterwards, and that was wonderful. And then um Adam Pascal was kind of over to the left. Um, and so that was very exciting for me.

[14:46] Peppermint: And it was the first time I'd ever been able in my first Broadway show. I got to not only see this show, this show that was such a um a hit, and it was a hit by the time I saw it. It was um a cultural phenomenon, it was becoming a cultural phenomenon, and it uh certainly diverted the I think added a new lane for Broadway shows because up until that time everything had just been very sort of legit. Um when I say legit people who I guess this is mostly people who are theater folks, but um, it's a sort of theatrical style of performance and and singing um legit is just a classification. Um, and everything had sort of been in that um sort of that feeling, and I hadn't really heard uh except for things like um maybe Jesus Christ Superstar, things like that.

But there hadn't really been a lot of rock operas that I'd seen. I know there was like you know, Tommy and some other things, but um, this was the one one for our era that was dealing in very real time in a very real way with what we what was going on. Um and so anyway, it's not about rent. The point is I went, I got to see this, and the impact that it had on me was uh, you know, immeasurable. I it changed, it it influences everything that I do, you know, that that that perpetuation. And it was a first for so many different conversations seen on stage with regards to identity seen on stage, with regards to the fact that it dared to be, you know, sung all the way through. It was in the rock genre, as you mentioned.

Obviously, there was the operatic element to it, the fact that it spoke about queerness in a way that we'd not seen before, spoke about the HIV and AIDS and how we sort of tackle that and how we live in a reality where that's present rather than trying to exclude it, which was so often the conversation.

[16:35] William J Connolly: So when it came to you being part of Head Over Heels and you'd seen the impact that a first, you know, something that was the first for so many things had done, did that add extra pressure for you when you knew you were going to be making history, or do was that something that you thought, here we go. It's my turn to do my bit. How did you approach it?

[16:55] Peppermint: No. I think I think it needed to um, I think one of the things that I've learned from a very close friend who's also a performer, is that um, you know, a lot of these things that we do, especially as queer people in that that reach a certain level of mainstream success, whether it's film or television or theater, oh there's a there's a there's a good chance that what we do could end up could be seen or perceived as historic, could even be historic or one of a kind or new, edgy, whatever the impact is, and we'll kind of it could, it has the, it could probably ripple throughout the world in a beautiful way, like other things that we've seen before us. But as the creators of the of that piece of art, it's our duty to make sure that the art is just to focus on the integrity of the art, to make sure that it's good and that we're focused on it.

And if we're focused on what the effect is gonna be, then we're not looking at what the actual thing is that we're doing. We're not really paying attention to the task at hand. Not to say that we're not aware of what's going on and understanding how we deliver this, but um, you know, I wasn't like, I was less worried about what it's gonna be and more worried about what it actually is, if that makes sense.

[18:28] William J Connolly: Yeah, absolutely. So were you aware of the attachment of history when you took the role, or was that something that just happened through time?

[18:36] Peppermint: I was aware that that's how it was being spoken about, and um I was certainly aware that what we were dealing with and the the subject matter, the the casting, so many elements about the Head Over Heels were were certainly new, things I had never even heard of or seen on in a show uh like that. And so I was certainly aware of that. And my approach, there was so much work to do that I wasn't able to really sit and enjoy the effect of it. I have I've did this show, and other than me being out for um my like, you know, mandatory vacation, um I've never seen it. You know, I've never seen it. So I have no idea what it's like. All I know is that I was backstage and I would hear my cue and I would enter and I would see the audience, and then I would talk to the people on stage.

I couldn't tell what they were seeing, I couldn't, if something else is happening on another part of the stage, I probably couldn't see it. I was only aware of what I was doing in the moment with whatever. And then I would leave the stage. And then whatever experience they would have with the rest of the show, I have no idea. I would love to have seen the show because it's unlike a film or a television show, once you do it, you a lot of times, you know, when you're an actor uh and you do a film or TV show, you only are aware of the scenes that you're in. So if you're in the opening scene and the closing scene, you're not aware of what's happened in the middle, other than what's on the script.

Um, but you have the chance to see it at when the movie, when everyone watches it. And you can go back and you can pause it and you can rewind it and you can look at it again. You can't do that. I have there's no way for me to know what happened. And so I was not able to really even receive the impact of what the show was. But when we were creating the show and dealing with the other outside entities that deal with the show, like the press, just other aspects that were that connect to the show that sort of work in tandem with the show. I was aware that my presence was unusual. Um, you know, the fact that there were there was the consideration of dressing rooms. Like, what do we do with dressing rooms?

You know, that's probably not a conversation that people in this theater building were used to having. You know, is there a transgender woman? How do what is this? Is there a sensitivity there? I had my own dressing room, by the way.

[21:03] Peppermint: Also, like again with the press, you know, there was a moment when a New York Times uh reviewer was quite harsh um and took a lot of liberties talking about the show, as he had in the past. But and I think he had a history of speaking about people's appearance and even their identities in a way that was sort of brash and his sort of way of doing things that could certainly be seen as insensitive. But he I don't think he was ready for the the groundswell of social justice aware drag race fans who were waiting for his review. And the minute he misgendered my character, he was made aware. And then um and the New York Times issued a very rare apology um for that. And so I was aware that this was something this was new.

They'd never experienced it, and they were talking about it in a way that they thought they could get away with it. And then they realized, oh, this is different. And so in that regard, I knew that it was historic. And I could, and those were the things that I was mostly connected to. And then the of course, the most important way was and the most palpable and the most emotional was when I would go out into the the stage door and meet uh people, kids, young kids who'd seen the show who were really emotional and and happy and and telling me about how they were moved or how they resonated with the show in some way or certain characters. And so that was um, I was able to measure the impact that way.

[22:46] Peppermint: And the conversations at stage door with young people, not necessarily even LGBTQ people, but specifically referencing, you know, young trans kids, young queer kids must have been, must have cancelled out any of the noise that came from anywhere else.

[22:59] William J Connolly: Yes.

[23:00] Peppermint: I mean, that was the only barometer I was really looking at was like, were those people in the audience happy? Did they enjoy what they saw? Were they satisfied? Did they have a good, was this their first theater experience? Just as mine had been all those years before. And so that's what I was mostly focused on. Later on, when I was sort of being written about and receiving certain accolades, which I'm very happy to accept and receive.

[23:38] Peppermint: My focus was who's going to be next, you know, and because then otherwise it's just tokenizing. Then the people who were happy enough to never have a trans woman on Broadway who accepted, okay, here's one. If we congratulate ourselves too much, then those same people who were the gatekeepers can go back to being like, okay, we did it. Now let's go back to the way we've always done it.

[24:02] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[24:03] Peppermint: And we can't, we can't let that happen. And I do think that there is a real change. I know that there are transgender people within Jagged Little Pill, there's non-binary individuals in Tina. I've had the pleasure of interviewing Miles Rucker, who's a non-binary individual on within Tina, and just about the impact and just the possibility of what is out there for anybody that doesn't sit not just within the binary, but just sits outside of, you know, the social norms that we expect to see on Broadway. So, you know, as Vice President Harris said so beautifully, the first, but certainly not the last. And I'm very, very hopeful of that. And I think that's, uh, it's an exciting time for theater. Do you know what I mean?

[24:34] William J Connolly: It is.

[24:34] Peppermint: It's an exciting time because, um, we are able to come back to live theater in a way that we just, we weren't sure if and or when we would, um, especially after having been so long, so just missing it and being able to work. It's exciting because we are, it's exciting and interesting because we're coming back in a way that takes public health and safety into consideration, uh, in a way that it probably hadn't since they installed fire alarms into theaters, you know. And so we have the, I'm sure that the producers of the shows and the theater people who actually deal with the theater buildings are having to consider COVID, you know, what do we do in a pandemic and how do we open a theater safely and do we space off the seats, do we have people with masks? I don't know what they're gonna do.

[25:30] Peppermint: So that's interesting and exciting to be able to make those adjustments I think and expensive. And then there's also, we're coming through, um, you know, just like thinking of Rent, you know, one aspect of Rent that, um, that I remember and that was interesting was that they, I'd never seen a cell phone in a Broadway show before. That was the first time I'd ever seen someone with a cell phone in a Broadway show. Now that happens all the time. But so there were, and there was this sort of, they had, there was a particular feeling about technology and how it was being used, um, in the show. Like they would write about, oh, you know, of course they didn't have social media, but they were talking about like the writers of these, you know, sleazy tabloid news shows which were basically like the predecessor to like a Perez Hilton or like a TMZ or, you know, the shade room.

And so like speaking about that and, um, you know, and buzzline, you know, and speaking and the impact that that has in our world and then on theater as well. You know, and that shows like Hamilton and now, um, Princess Diana are embracing the technology of it all. For so long the tradition was no film or TV, no, um, cameras in a show period. You have to put it away and, and for good reason. But that's not how humanity, that that's not the direction humanity's going in. The direction is going in more cameras, not only other cameras, now every person in the room has one in their hand and it's on a device they use hourly if not by minute by minute. And so the Broadway world and the live theater world has to adjust to that and in a way that's going to be, um, good for everyone. And so maybe we need to allow people to film it with their things. I, I don't know, that's just my thought. There's a lot to think through.

[27:29] Peppermint: And then of course the biggest opportunity that I think is exciting that theater has, and this is kind of bringing back to what you were saying, is that post 2020 there's, we're over going over a huge sort of speed bump that if you didn't have the momentum to get over, you were getting left behind in terms of, um, diversity and inclusion and, uh, thinking about identity in a way that, um, is supportive of different people in different groups. And that the work of theater needs to be reflective of that. If it's no longer reflecting who we are as people, then it's just, it's not necessary. It's not relevant and we don't need it. And that Broadway, the professional theater world, especially in New York, was in grave danger of not making it into 2021 until they took a look at themselves. And so when they, oh, when these shows open, we will be watching for sure.

[28:30] William J Connolly: Gosh, put so eloquently in ways that I never could.

[28:33] Peppermint: I mean, just that, that 30, 40 seconds there could change the world.

[28:37] William J Connolly: It really could.

[28:38] Peppermint: It's so, so perfectly put and so real. And I, I do, I'm, I'm very much an optimist. I always live on the sort of glass half full side. So I do think it will and is happening. And somebody that I, I did amiss when I'm, I listed the people that are making waves on Broadway, adding their Alexandra Billings as well, who's obviously the first transgender woman to ever star in Wicked. I mean, you know, the big shows are pulling their weight, and as should everyone else. So fingers crossed, fingers crossed, they all do follow on that journey.

[29:04] William J Connolly: And I should say that anybody that hasn't had the opportunity to see Peppermint in any of the costumes for Head Over Heels should go to their good friend Google and put it in because that silver number and also a certain video streaming site, which I don't encourage, does have a video of you absolutely kicking.

[29:20] Peppermint: I encourage it. Oh, watch, go watch it. Uh, there's actually a, the, the, without us getting in trouble, people can go and watch, uh, on YouTube, um, the live performance that we had filmed for, uh, the Thanksgiving Day parade, uh, performance in, um, in the Macy's parade. And so we had a performance in filmed in our theater, and so it was staged. First, we were like, oh, we want to go to the parade. Uh, but only certain shows get chosen, and our show did not get chosen, but we were able to just film in our theater, which is great because then people, I realized, oh, now people are gonna have the opportunity to see us in our own, in our, in our home. And it, and now after the show is closed, people can see what kind of what bits and pieces of what it might have been like. And so there was this, there's a performance that I'm included in that people can go and see.

[30:19] William J Connolly: Also, you know this video.

[30:22] Peppermint: Oh yes.

[30:23] William J Connolly: I don't know what that is.

[30:24] Peppermint: This, I mean, it's you literally slaying. It's ridiculous.

[30:28] William J Connolly: Oh my god, what is that?

[30:29] Peppermint: What's this? Is from, send it to, I'll send it to you. But this is, I was like, I was like, the voice. I was like, oh, you definitely were feeling it that day.

[30:39] William J Connolly: I should also say that the show does have one of my favorite songs, and it's, it's a very negative song, but it's a song that puts me in a really good mood, very weird.

[30:47] Peppermint: I am strange, and that's Automatic Rainy Day.

[30:50] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[30:51] Peppermint: Is that a jam? I'm just like, yeah. It's so good. And I love, I love both the Go-Go's version and this version. Uh, there's, and on the, on this CD, the cast recording, uh, for the show, there's, um, there's a bonus version that's an, um, acoustic version, which I love being able to hear Bonnie Milligan and Taylor Iman, uh, Jones singing, so screaming, wailing. Uh, it's just so beautiful and getting, being able to work with them. Uh, Taylor is going to be, it looks like, I hope still starring in, um, uh, The Devil Wears Prada. Um, and so I'm very excited to see my daughter. She played my daughter in the show, and I, she's my daughter in real life.

[31:39] William J Connolly: And we should say very quickly, just to end on talking about Head Over Heels, that it was directed by Michael Mayer, who I believe directed Funny Girl in the West End. So people have seen his amazing work. But also, weren't you co-produced by Gwyneth Paltrow?

[31:52] Peppermint: We were.

[31:53] William J Connolly: Which is just a casual name drop.

[31:55] Peppermint: I mean, come on.

[31:56] William J Connolly: Yeah, surprise, surprise.

[31:58] Peppermint: Uh yes, we were co-produced by, um, by Gwyneth Paltrow. And, uh, she was, you know, she wasn't, uh, we didn't see her at rehearsals. Let's just say that. It was great to have a name attached like that. And we had so many wonderful people that worked on our show that were Broadway heavy hitters, uh, James Magruder, uh, Spencer Lift, choreographer, and Spencer got his start in Big, the musical, um, on Broadway. RN Phillips, who is pretty much the costume designer for so many people, but she got even her start in the world of music and rock like Madonna and Tina Turner and Lenny Kravitz. Um, and she's, she did our, uh, show, obviously. Um, and, uh, Tom Kitt did the music, and he's done pretty much the music for every show we, almost every show we mentioned today.

Um, and so it, I would, we were in great hands. It's a wonderful show. And the great thing about it is when it was already starting. I mean, obviously everything stopped, but after the show closed for the year or so after the show closed, and even as 2020 was beginning, there were so many schools that were really focused on performing this. High schools, colleges. Uh, I think the material just resonates with so many young folks, and that was great to see. So hopefully it'll have a life in the new era of theater.

[33:30] William J Connolly: You grew up in Delaware, is that right?

[33:32] Peppermint: I grew up in Wilmington, Delaware.

[33:34] William J Connolly: Which is, have you heard of Delaware?

[33:36] Peppermint: Well, I was gonna say it's a place I think that a lot of people have heard of most recently, thanks to a lot of people.

[33:41] William J Connolly: Oh, yes, that's true because of our president.

[33:43] Peppermint: That's true. I, we have a claim to fame. And I, I met Joe Biden as our senator in the, in the 80s. My grandmother took me to DC and I got to meet my, my senator. He complimented my cowboy boots.

[33:59] William J Connolly: Oh, okay. He's got taste then.

[34:01] Peppermint: That's always good.

[34:02] William J Connolly: Yeah.

[34:03] Peppermint: And we all know that Joe Biden adores theater. I mean, the photographs of him backstage taking selfies with the cast of Hamilton is crazy.

[34:10] Peppermint: I mean, like he's him and Jill are very open about their love of theater. And in a world that's got a lot of craziness happening, and I hope and pray that things are slowly starting to go back to normal, sort of beyond the Trump era, that people are gonna invest in the arts. And we know that he's certainly someone that's gonna support that. And that feels exciting.

[34:27] William J Connolly: Oh, absolutely. And I think our I'm I don't know what it's like right now to live in other many other states. I don't know what it's like to live in any other state right now. I am grateful that to hear our mayor speak about Broadway in a very endearing way and in a in a way with a little bit of urgency. At first I was like, what about the theater community? Because it wasn't, we weren't included in most of the speeches, proclamations, um, initiatives, policies that happened during the year of 2020. And so it's great to hear our mayor say Broadway's coming back and we're gonna make sure that this does happens the right way. Um, and so it is good to hear the impact of theater on um from our elected officials.

[35:15] Peppermint: In a slightly different direction, I do want to talk about something that you involved in very, very recently, which was uh the letter on behalf of GLAAD, which was incredibly powerful and came out within the last few days, which was signed by so many different corners, not just people from the LGBTQ community, but from outside supporting women's history month, supporting young women, supporting young trans women and celebrating life and the acceptance and the fact that this is a world that we live in together. And just to name some of them, and this really is uh, I believe 275 people. So this is just a very short number of them, but Halle Berry, Janelle Monet, Laverne Cox, Cara Delavine, Sarah Paulson, MJ Rodriguez, and yourself. Just talk to me very briefly if anybody hasn't actually um seen it so far, I guess, what this letter is and I guess who it's supporting.

[35:55] Peppermint: Well, there is there's a rash of uh in the in the states, there's a rash of anti-trans legislation. Uh I think, you know, it's most people have heard that the Trump administration um, although they proclaimed to profess to be um in favor of and in support of the LGBT community, there were many um uh uh there was never never a dull moment where there were lots of uh bannings and and and um anti-trans legislation, anti LGBT policies that came out that sprung up during the Trump administration, either from Trump directly, either a tweet or some policy that we weren't unaware of. Like most people were unaware that his his uh administration was pushing forth um legislation that would limit uh or even ban transgender individuals from their health care.

And so once most of those things were defeated, some of them weren't, like the uh obviously the well-known ban on transgender um service people in the military. And so the Biden administration, I think, is obviously working on reversing many of those things by executive order. Uh so those things are not necessarily as much of a threat um federally as they were, but nationally, and when I say nationally, I mean collectively from each individual state. Many of the um conservative states are saying, oh, you want to do that? Well, we'll just do it on a state level. And in the United States, we've got this obsession with the each state being able to make up their own laws, which is important, but a lot of times those things just disproportionately affect minority groups.

And so they're like, oh, the the president can't ban such and such, then we'll do it in our state. And if all the states do it, it's basically the same thing. And so that's what's happening. There's so many states. I think more right now there are six states actively um Minnesota, Missouri, uh, Alabama, Arkansas, um, South Dakota was uh defeated, Florida is getting ready. All of these states are putting forth some really insidious um policies that um are basically anti-trans. All of them are cookie-cutter. They either want to uh restrict the health care of transgender individuals, transgender youth by making it um illegal for doctors to treat them. They want to restrict the health and safety of transgender individuals by making it um punishable by jail if you if an adult does not out a transgender youth to the their parents and the authority, whoever is on the list.

They want to make it, you know, uh they're obviously banning transgender folks in sports, um, transgender participants in sports from the school level, organized sports, everything up until college, um, which means you, I mean, nobody's gonna like start tennis for the first time in college and become professional. Like if you're gonna be an athlete, you're probably gonna do it from a very young age. And the things like that. Those are the main three things. And then there's also identification and document laws. So there's a whole bunch of things that that really stop transgender people from being able to have a healthy and or are barriers to them having a healthy and productive um contribution to society and life.

And so uh lots of these states are are trying to do it. So the letter is basically saying, you know, um, it's an open letter. We during women's history month are supportive of transgender women on transgender day of visibility, are um, you know, supportive of transgender youth, trans girls, trans women, transgender people, but specifically those who are being attacked, because most of these bills focus on the safety of cisgender girls over trans girls. Um and uh and so the the letter focuses on just saying, hey, we support women, transgender women are women, transgender girls are girls, and they should have a right to um not be attacked and they should be able to be able to, you know, participate and have healthcare and have safety, just like all the rest of us. That's basically what the letter is.

[40:20] Peppermint: We should say, as you mentioned, that it was released um to honor uh women's history month, but also Transgender Day of Visibility, which is this week and the day that we're recording this. And so I did notice that on social media there was a lot of posts out there, particularly from President Biden, from Vice President Harris, from a lot of people within the cabinet, not just at the top, but working all the way down through the different levels in terms of the hierarchy and from people within the entertainment world, within the performance world, in the political world. Do you find and are you finding that visibility is becoming slightly easier, even if the troubles are becoming harder to be able to battle? Do you feel like there is progress happening even when there are these very difficult hurdles that obviously do need to be dealt with separately?

[41:03] Peppermint: Uh yes, I do. Um, but it really is interesting. I think as humans, um, the uh sort of um I think we'll never we'll we'll always be in a situation where we're facing adversity and that there's things that have to be to have to improve. That will well, I don't think we'll ever just like reach utopia and be like, okay, we're done. There's nothing left to do. Uh and so with that regard, I'm I'm looking at a lot of the challenges as just par for the course. These are things that we have to take care of. I do think there has been a lot of wonderful things that have been happening in light of all the bad stuff that we've been experiencing. The the creator of the Olympic project for human rights, Harry Edwards, who so famously organized a boycott of the Olympics in 1968 in favor of uh equality for black folks and African Americans, said something in a documentary interview recently that I watched that I thought was very inspiring.

There has been a lot of change, but until that change is is sort of self-perpetuating, we won't view it as progress. And and so there has been great change. Is it progress? We have to wait and see. That's just inspiring for me to acknowledge what we've got, what we've done, but also to keep in mind where we need to go.

[42:26] William J Connolly: I guess the reason why my question was there is do you feel a sense of hope? Do you feel like things are continuing to spin forward?

[42:33] Peppermint: I do. I think we, I mean, look, the more visibility that we have, the more it sends a message to people who may, it sends a message to people outside of the community. It signals to them how they should treat us and that we are worthy of the space that we uh are are occupying, that we are worthy of jobs and health and love and and safety and and a voice and a platform. And we are worthy of being included. The other thing that it does, obviously, is sends a signal to young folks who may have felt they were alone. And I don't know what it's like to be a teenager growing up in this in the new millennium. I don't know. But I remember when I was younger, actually just taking for granted that I was the only person who felt the way that I do.

I just thought that that was, you know, it seems unfathomable now. But I really did think I was, I'm the only one. I'm just the only one. And that was a lonely place to be for a while. I can if I think back to it. And so I'm hopeful that we don't that folks don't have to feel that way anymore. I'm sure that people are gonna have their experiences and they will vary. But it's great to know that there are, you know, I I struggle to think of, you know, like I'm what I was under I'm undeniably queer, and I have been all my life. And I didn't have any examples or role models or people to look up to who showed me possibilities. I was just like, well, this is the way it's gonna be. And so now that we do have these folks, these icons, these people that are making history, these people that are doing things and being included and and have a voice that's and an impact that's visible for all to see, including young queer folks, uh, I think is wonderful. I think that young queer folks are going to grow up with a sense of confidence and um and um purpose that they didn't necessarily might not have had otherwise at a younger age.

[44:33] William J Connolly: Absolutely, absolutely. I literally can't believe we've been talking for over 50 minutes. I'm literally shocked. So it feels like five minutes. So I'm so sorry for keeping you much longer, but I just have one final question for you, and that's for you to make me a promise that if the West End was ever to come calling for you to star, please we make me the promise now that you'll do it.

[44:49] Peppermint: They may already have, but dot dot wow.

[44:53] William J Connolly: Okay, that's a cliffhanger that that's a cliffhanger that I was not expecting. Where do I go from here? Um, okay, we're gonna have to talk, but um, you're such a dream. I'm so so glad that we got the opportunity to do this. So thank you so much.

[45:05] Peppermint: Oh, thank you so much for for having me be back here. So great to see you again, my love.

[45:11] William J Connolly: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theater podcast. Find out more about 11 at 11podcast.com or via our official social channels.