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[0:01] Renée Elise Goldsberry: My name is Renée Elise Goldsberry, and you're listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[0:17] William J Connolly: Hello and welcome to Eleven, the official theatre podcast that brings the biggest stars and creatives together in one place to discuss life in the arts.

[0:25] William J Connolly: Now she's the Tony Award-winning star of stage and screen that's now bagged herself an Emmy nomination for her performance as Angelica Schuyler in the Disney Plus taping of the Lin-Manuel Miranda musical Hamilton. She's currently joining forces with the Lego Group to shine a spotlight on the beauty of Broadway as all attention turns to reopening the most famous theatrical avenue in the world. And of course, it's being done through song and dance, courtesy of Lego Store: The Musical, and the beautiful song "If You Can Build It Here, You Can Build It Anywhere." Think of it as a showstopping original Broadway-style opening number mixed with fierce vocals, fabulous fashion, and all eyes on another iconic NYC experience.

Yes, that's the flagship Lego store on Fifth Avenue. Camp. You haven't seen anything. No stranger to the bright lights, she's also an original cast member of The Color Purple, played Mimi in the live stage adaptation of Rent, filmed direct from Broadway with that closing night company, and features in the new movie Girls5eva, working with Tina Fey and Waitress genius Sara Bareilles. She's also been nominated for a Daytime Emmy Award, appeared in movies, is a songwriter, and has also featured in musicals including Dreamgirls, The Lion King, and The Baker's Wife, to name but a few. Did we also mention the Grammy Award for Hamilton yet? Now, here in an exclusive UK interview, it's time to discuss her incredible new collaboration with Lego, including that emotional brilliant song, "If You Can Build It Here, You Can Build It Anywhere."

The return of live theatre to New York. Why she's hopeful a brand new Broadway is opening up that will give everybody a seat at the table. Her most recent Emmy nomination for starring in Hamilton on Disney Plus, why she thinks the show wouldn't be here today without the genius of musical Rent, including why she's not afraid to tackle some of the often unspoken real-life stories that she speaks through her art. How starring as Angelica in that production of Hamilton has changed her life forever, and why she will forever be grateful. Plus, I also bug her and demand that she drops that epic skim routine because, well, I'm obsessed. So get ready for quite the ride. As it's time to welcome the goddess herself. Cannot believe I'm saying this. It's Renée Elise Goldsberry on this, the next episode of Eleven, the official theatre podcast.

[2:43] William J Connolly: To meet with current restrictions and to stop the possible spread of COVID-19, Renée and I connected for this conversation digitally. So please forgive any brief moments while we wait for the internet to catch up. Enjoy.

[2:59] William J Connolly: She is the jewel in Broadway's crown, a goddess of the stage, and also a Tony Award winner who knows a thing or two about serving her up. So please help me welcome to this, the next episode of Eleven. Please be upstanding for one of my favorite voices. It's Renée Elise Goldsberry.

[3:13] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Hi, William. Are we live? Are we in color?

[3:15] William J Connolly: We're live and in color always.

[3:17] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Hi, William. It's so good to talk to you. Congratulations on just the most amazing year, and it's such an honor, as I've said just very previously, to get the opportunity to talk to you today. So thank you a thousand times. And I did joke just a second ago that this was basically going to be sort of 15-20 minutes of me telling you how amazing you are. But I think that's probably pretty much the reality of this conversation. Because as much as I joke, and please don't leave the Zoom when I say I'm obsessed with you, but I am obsessed with you. I think you are an insane talent, and I once again just thank you so much for your time today. And before we talk about this amazing project that you're doing with Lego, please can I wish you very many congratulations in the last sort of 24-hour period with your Emmy nomination for your performance as Angelica in Hamilton on Disney Plus. I mean, it's been a pretty crappy year, I think, sort of a year and a half now for everybody. So to sort of start summer 2021 with an Emmy nomination must be pretty cool.

[4:04] Renée Elise Goldsberry: I was blindsided by it. And I'm happy to say you're the first interview I've had since I got my Emmy nomination. So I feel like I'm in safe hands. If you're a fan, I'm in the right place. Yeah, yesterday I didn't even see it coming, honestly. I just, you know, I love Hamilton. It's been an amazing, amazing gift to me. And I learned yesterday it is the gift that keeps on giving because I got an Emmy nomination, and so did many of my cast members.

[4:33] William J Connolly: Yeah, it's a pretty stellar lineup in terms of the whole team getting their glory in their moment, and it's so well deserved. And I cannot believe nobody has said congratulations to you. So shame on all of them, and thank you for...

[4:43] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Oh, I got many congratulations, but this is the first official interview.

[4:49] William J Connolly: Congratulations.

[4:50] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Thank you. Well, I'd love to be the first, so I'm gonna bask in this glory very, very much. We'll discuss that show just in a second, but I just want to talk about something that I didn't know I needed in my life, but now I'm absolutely obsessed, and that is Lego, the musical. I mean, firstly, why when I watched it, when I was watching you sort of hang out the back of a New York City cab, why did I start crying? What happened to me?

[5:12] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Because it was such a beautiful celebration of New York City and theater and all that we missed, and you know, we're doing it with this, gosh, the most childhood celebration of imagination there is, and that's Lego. So it was just such a fusion I didn't know I needed it until I got that phone call inviting me to join in this musical. It's just so amazing and it just brings this great sense of warmth and I love this idea of building what you want, you know, sort of building your dream. If you can build it, you can be it, you can see it, and therefore it can become a reality. And sort of cheesy as it sounds, it's actually very, very true, and I can imagine that's one of the reasons why you wanted to be part of this collaboration was that you want to build the world that you want to live in and see.

[5:56] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Absolutely. I think we've all been looking for silver linings over the past year and some change. We've all been trying to figure out how do we take this, you know, use this as an opportunity to get better, and we've also been looking for opportunities to come together. You know, we've been pushing back all year long at, you know, being told we have to separate to be safe. It's just not who we are, even though we know it was the responsible thing to do. And I think, you know, anytime there's a challenge, anytime, you know, we're confronted with a challenge, we rise to it. And the world has gotten a little bit safer. You know, we have a vaccine. We can push back even further on this idea that we can't come together.

And so we were on the streets of New York City singing and dancing together, and it was hot, but it was amazing. It was absolutely amazing. And not only was it amazing for all the cast members that got to be a part of Lego Store: The Musical, but all of the people that were walking by in New York City were like, "What is that? And how do I dance with you?"

[7:04] William J Connolly: It's not really sort of an everyday thing to be able to say that you're dancing actually in New York City, although I've seen some of the stuff that you've done, and I feel like this is just normal behavior for you.

[7:14] Renée Elise Goldsberry: It's normal behavior in my house.

[7:18] Renée Elise Goldsberry: But yeah, but you know, it's, you know, to be dressed up in a beautiful red dress and to be surrounded by so many, you know, such a diverse group of talented, you know, theater actors, singers, and dancers, and to be on the street. And I have to tell you, you know, we were a little jaded. I mean, you know, New Yorkers, you know, we get a little jaded because we move really, really fast and we're running to the next thing. You know, we're trying to, you know, change the world in our own little corners. And that was taken away because, you know, cheesy, cheesy this isn't, but it is, you know, very sentimental. And we weren't the most sentimental crew before COVID. But now we really are because we really recognize how important celebrating the best of us is.

[8:00] William J Connolly: And also, did you get the opportunity to keep those golden numbers? Because I was like, where do I get myself one of those?

[8:05] Renée Elise Goldsberry: That's camp, babe. Like, come on. You know what? I got to keep my character shoes, my character dancing shoes. It's been a really long time since I wore a pair of them, and that got to come home with me. And I got a Lady Liberty.

[8:18] William J Connolly: Oh my god.

[8:19] Renée Elise Goldsberry: A Lady Liberty Lego keychain that came home with me too.

[8:23] William J Connolly: Oh my god, amazing. Your house is just like Lego crazy. You're like cutting up Lego.

[8:27] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Absolutely. I love this idea with Lego as well. Like, sort of when it's also ironic, I'm talking so much about Lego when everyone always says I have Lego hair. I'm going with it. Today I'm embracing it.

[8:36] William J Connolly: That's fantastic. I'm embracing it. It is Lego hair. Thank you. Very proud.

[8:41] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Oh, well, I have, well, especially as you said it, of course. But I just love this fact that we can sort of make these characters and sort of see ourselves in a different way. And again, it sort of sounds like rhetoric and slightly cheesy, but I love this idea of sort of building as we want to be seen, sort of at saying, you know, I want to sort of create these little figures or sort of build a house or whatever it might be, whatever you sort of want to construct as well. So I guess my question to you is what would Renée look like in Lego form? What would sort of, what would you do in terms of the t-shirt and the trousers or skirt like? I guess what would we be rocking?

[9:10] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Oh my goodness. I think the beauty of what you get to do with Lego is that you get to change. You know, you get to snap on the red dress, and then you get to snap on what I've loved so much, and that is the very comfortable, you know, Zoom sweatpants, the boyfriend jeans, you know, the white tennis, you know, and whatever we want to put on our hair. But more important than what we're wearing is where we put ourselves. You know, what we take the figure of ourselves and where we place it, where we place ourselves. That's what's getting to expand now is where we can go and what we can do. And, you know, snapping in together again, that's just, you know, we've had to imagine it, and now we're starting to get to do it again, and that's beautiful.

[10:03] William J Connolly: So does this mean therefore that we've obviously got Lego Store: The Musical that when I come to New York or when anybody comes to New York, we've now got permission to sing and dance and make your musical in the store? That means we can do that, right?

[10:14] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Absolutely, we can do it. We can do it. We can go and we can go see Broadway musicals, which is the most exciting thing. We're gearing up for that. And we can, you know, we can go to Fifth Avenue, you know, we can go shopping on Fifth Avenue, we can go to the Lego store, we can go to Rockefeller Plaza, we can go to Washington Square Park, we can get on a boat again and, you know, go all around, you know, Lady Liberty and feel the way, you know, so many immigrants felt, you know, for so long coming to our country. Like, we're back.

[10:50] William J Connolly: Do you know what? I sit here and I sometimes think about the last sort of 15, 16, 17, 18 months or the pre-pandemic as well, and sort of in slight disbelief that it really ever happened, that actual Broadway theater, the world stopped. And just to hear you sort of reeling off those places that we can go, you know, if you're local to New York or if you're traveling there like I would be, just it just feels so special, like we've sort of got our baby back. And I think what's really exciting about now, and I hope you agree, is that we're gonna hopefully gonna see a different type of Broadway. You know, we've seen greater conversations around injustice towards our black and brown siblings, often false and particularly hurtful narratives towards queer people in queer roles, and obviously the leveling up in terms of the way in which we see women within the stage. A slightly heavy question, but do you feel like a new Broadway is coming? Do you feel like the revolution is upon us?

[11:35] Renée Elise Goldsberry: I hope so. I do believe we had a lot of time to sit at home and think about what we were missing, you know, as though it was a punishment. The value of a punishment is it's time to, you know, if you get to come back and try again, what are you gonna do differently? And we definitely had those conversations because it wasn't just COVID, it was also Black Lives Matter, it was also our awareness of the broader BIPOC community and who we are.

[12:04] Renée Elise Goldsberry: And we, you know, we just had a lot of time on social media to have some very painful conversations and some constructive conversations. And I I'm I'm excited to see um you know how we tell stories now. I think we were doing a really good job, you know. I mean, I think Hamilton did a really good job. I mean, I when I look across the spectrum of of you know what we were doing, you know, in Broadway, I mean in theater, you know, at large um but we could do we can do better we have to do better and um we are um we are geared up and ready for that for that challenge do you or are you aware when you're in any of these shows I'm just thinking obviously you referenced Hamilton but also when you're in shows like Rent or the Color Purple do you think about you know the impact of not simply visibility if we just take the visibility as sort of a face value do you think and are you aware in that moment about what it's doing for others or is that something that you do upon reflection once perhaps you are either cemented in a role or you've left I'm always thinking about kids I'm always thinking I'm I'm always remembering myself and the images that I you know that I saw in and what how they made me feel about myself and the possibilities I'm I'm I have children.

So I'm I'm very aware of what they what you know the images that are put in front of them and the opportunity to you know expand their mind and to empower them to create bigger things to fix the world that they've inherited I'm I'm I that's what we do that's that you know it's it's not just how good it feels to sing and dance and come together. It's it there is a tremendous responsibility in it and before I take any job even before anyone really cared if I took a job I felt you know very um I just I just felt convicted to to try to make choices that I I would want you know I I feel would be positive for my children and um and I think you know we're even more aware of that um now but I I always have been.

[13:35] William J Connolly: Is that because of the lack of representation that you saw as you know the child wanting to be on Broadway? I guess where do you think that comes from?

[14:06] Renée Elise Goldsberry: You know, I I I don't I I don't I don't I never have lived in the world um hyper aware of what was wrong with it. Um I mean, you know, it's obvious, you know, it's it keeps smacking you in the face. Um but what I think about when I think about art, when I think about play, when I think about you know childhood and imagination, I I think mostly um I'm I'm excited about what's right. I'm excited about you know the diverse images that I saw, you know, growing up in the 80s and the 90s. I mean, I I did see those, I did see diverse images and and um and I'm most excited about what we can do even better. I think that's the way to say it. What can we do even better as opposed to this is terrible and we have to fix everything?

You know, there have always been people that are pushing the envelope that are that are that are um are changing, you know, like or expanding the things that are limit limiting, like how many people can be here that are different? You know, what does it mean to be, you know, he or she or they? Like, you know, there are constantly conversations that are going on that you know, even the most enlightened person has to rethink what I've been taught my entire life. Yeah. And we in the community of, you know, in the media community aren't having those conversations and doing that, then we are we're in the wrong business. Um so I'm excited. Um I'm excited that we're back um and able to answer, I think, some even more uh I think challenging questions than we thought we had before. We have an opportunity to do a better job, and I and I I'm very hopeful.

[15:40] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Brilliant use of that word because I think hope, especially for me as a queer person, hope's the only thing I think you have to really cling on to with the, you know, even today here in London, we've seen one of the first non-binary leads um cast by to a non-binary person. You think, how has this only just happened? And it's just amazing to it's amazing to feel like progress is happening. And and I did reference Rent there and and you're part of that amazing recording that I watch all the time again I told you I was obsessed with you please certainly but like when I watch it I sit there and I do I am amazed with just how phenomenal not just the piece was but particularly the age this isn't something that was written two years ago this is some significant note and you just think about how groundbreaking it was and I guess I wonder are there words to describe what it was like playing Mimi as part of that production specifically telling that story.

[16:28] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Oh my gosh well it's you know it's the reason that Hamilton exists um and you know the story that Jonathan Larson was telling and uh you know I remember when it came out you know I remember um I remember hearing just just how revolutionary it was to hear the music the popular music of the day in a Broadway musical and being like oh finally you know um and stepping into the role I mean I remember the message of hope is it's not stronger anywhere than it than it is in Rent and coming through you know children like you know very young you know 18 year olds that are dying yeah um I mean you know when you talk about a pandemic when you mean you when you talk about you know a disease that is robbing us um uh to see that group of people in that cast have the hope that they have and recognize the value of love and being together.

I mean when people ask me you know and you know or or or cry and say that's a musical change their life most often they're talking about Rent you know uh and um yeah I'm I'm so proud to have been a part of that very large tradition. Um it's so much bigger than any one group of people, and I'm I'm just glad that I'm one of them.

[17:37] William J Connolly: I suppose because it's been captured in a recording as well, you have this sort of slightly strange territory. And I imagine you're perhaps not too far down the road with Hamilton yet to experience this, but you will have done with Rent, is that people watch it when you obviously you are not aware because you're not performing it, so you they can't sort of receive it. They can just click play and it goes. And therefore, you'll get that, you know, so many different generations of people of varying ages, you know, old and young, come up to you and say, 'Oh my gosh, I watched Rent last night, and and it means this to me as this person or whatever.' And yeah, I guess I guess it's just must be very humbling for you that the message still connects and probably will connect forever.

[18:11] Renée Elise Goldsberry: People ask me all the time, you know, what do you like better? Theater or television or film, and definitely theater, uh, because it's the most challenging to do and it's the most immediately satisfying. Um, the only problem with it ever was that, you know, it's a moment that's magical, it happens and it's gone, and if you missed it, you missed it. But you know, now that they found ways to, you know, to capture uh Rent, you know, on Broadway last night, and also Hamilton um before the original cast left, it's actually the same production company directing, you know, the same team that actually did both of them. If if you can capture uh the magic of theater, well, it doesn't get any better than that. And both of them do it so perfectly.

[18:54] Renée Elise Goldsberry: And I I don't say I want didn't want it to work, but you sort of say, well, exactly what you said at the start, which is like if you're not in the moment in that theater, then therefore it's sort of the beauty of theater is that it's gone. But actually, I think what both recordings do is is so useful is it makes you feel like you are in that room, and I think that's why certainly for me, it's completely opened my eyes to a new possibility about theatre of of course nothing will ever be being in that moment. But was there anything from recording Rent that you were able to use when it came to performing the recording for Hamilton? Was there anything you thought this is a hangover for my Rent days?

[19:23] Renée Elise Goldsberry: Oh my goodness, yes. Well, first of all, it was the same producer. Um, but I think the most important thing to be aware of is that you know what we do, that it's very daunting to think um I do something eight shows a week. The beauty of it is that you always get an opportunity to do it again better, you know. And uh when you film something, there's that feeling of, oh my gosh, this is going to be, this is going to be the thing that people always say I did every single, you know, forever. And uh I think you just have to free yourself of the the fear of you know, um, of it not going well and just do your show. And uh yeah, I I learned that. I also learned how much love you have out there in an audience of people when you're filming something.

Um, you know, when you when the audience that's there when you're filming some theater piece live is a part of the production. That energy in the room is a part of it. And it's it, there's nothing, there's nothing more loving in that moment than that combination between that audience member and that cast. It's beautiful.

[20:18] William J Connolly: It's quite difficult for me when you get the opportunity, uh real luxury and privilege to get opportunity to talk to somebody like you because I don't think there is a question about being in Hamilton that you haven't been asked, because it's literally a phenomenon. Like there are no words in the English dictionary that will be able to do justice to just how huge it is and how much I can imagine it's changed your life. And I read so many interviews of yours where you say you get lots of sort of young people coming up to you, quoting lyrics and telling you how amazing it is and how much it's connected with you. And I guess the only real question that I could desperately think of and desperate to ask you is are there any words to describe the entire experience? Or is it literally just impossible?

[20:53] Renée Elise Goldsberry: It's impossible in the best way. And the reason why is because it's never over. Do you know what I'm saying? Like when you think it's over, like, oh, that's done. People are over with it. You get an Emmy nomination, and it's like, and it's oh, it's back. Um, it's never over because there's all you know, just like you know, there's always new kids, you know, there's there's new um somebody, it's new to someone, and um, I think the most exciting thing for me about it is it gives me, you know, it makes me mad, you know, being able to talk to you. I'm not just another random person. For some reason, you um my ability to look at you and say, wow, it's so wonderful that you are here and that you're doing what you're doing.

I'm not just a regular person saying that to you. You're like, oh, this is Renée from Hamilton. I'm I am just a regular person, but the opportunity to see you and talk to you um because of Hamilton, because of Rent, because of Lego Store: The Musical, uh just makes me um makes me feel like it's all worth it.

[21:50] William J Connolly: I can imagine it is all worth it. And I think that's the most beautiful way to put it all. And I think the the main thing for me as a fan of yours is just actually to get to experience the joy that you give other people, particularly from social media. I think social media is a terrible place at the best of times, but actually the joy that social media brings is just people saying, gosh, I remember watching this, this show or this show, or I'm listening to this cast album that's got this person on. And it gives us a way to feel connected. And I think in the last year, particularly, it showed us all actually how important and vital things like you know, digitized versions of theater are. And I think I think that's amazing.

And also it made me realize that I actually need you to drop your skincare routine because all I do the way through Hamilton was be like, are you joking me? And I literally had a full text conversation with one of my friends. Like, how do I casually ask Renée, please drop the skincare routine because I'm obsessed?

[22:37] Renée Elise Goldsberry: You'd be very disappointed if you knew it was so flatter and a lot of lotion. But thank you for saying that. Sort of like you need to come up with a better answer than that, like, yeah, I use this product. Like, like hashtag add. William, you're such a delight. You're such a delight to talk to. Thank you so much. And um, we have unfortunately run out of time because I was rambling on too much about how obsessed I am with you, but it's been such a pleasure. And we've touched on literally the smallest amount of things that you've done in your career. And anybody that goes on to that wonderful thing called Google and the World Wide Web will see just some of the other amazing things. And I don't want to sort of do you short by saying you've only done these few projects.

So there's so many other things out there. So please do go sort of dive into the world of Renée Elise Goldsberry. But Renée, thank you so much. Best of luck with the reopening of Broadway. Not that you need it, and I cannot wait to hopefully see you fingers crossed on stage in the not so distant future.

[23:24] Renée Elise Goldsberry: William, thank you so much. Best of luck with everything to you, especially with this fantastic podcast, Eleven.

[23:30] William J Connolly: Bye bye.

[23:34] Announcer: You've been listening to Eleven, the official theatre podcast. Find out more about Eleven at elevenpodcast.com or via the Broadway Podcast Network.