This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello.

[0:01] Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast.

[0:04] I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry.

[0:17] Whether you're just starting out in the thick of it, or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place.

[0:24] In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable creative life.

[0:34] We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

[0:42] I chat with women and nonbinary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life.

[0:55] Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode.

[1:01] If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review.

[1:04] It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you.

[1:07] And hey, feel free to spread the love.

[1:09] Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag at Empowered Artist Collective and at Jennifer Apple underscore so we can chat with you there.

[1:18] Alright, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

[1:23] How does the creative process mirror the journey of motherhood?

[1:27] In this episode, I speak with Daniella Rabbani, actress, singer, podcast host, activist, and mother about the profound parallels between artistry and motherhood.

[1:36] Daniella shares how becoming a mother transformed her artistic identity, shifting her understanding of creativity, presence, and ambition, with prompts of what moves me and who am I in this moment as a means for deepening one's inner knowing.

[1:49] We explore the art of being present, the challenges of motherhood as an artist, and the importance of making small, intentional decisions to overcome life's inevitable stuck moments.

[1:59] Plus, we discuss the intersections of artistry and motherhood that both require trusting one's intuition, the challenges and rewards of balancing creativity with the financial realities of raising a child, and the profound importance of community and support.

[2:12] That creation, whether of a performance, a career, or a family, demands trust in the unknown.

[2:18] And it is all with the desire to create a meaningful life, whether that includes motherhood or not.

[2:23] This conversation offers a raw and honest look at the often unspoken truths that shape the lives of artist mothers, offering a candid and inspiring reflection on what it means to create life and art simultaneously.

[2:36] Enjoy.

[2:36] Daniella Rabbani, you're in my space.

[2:40] Lucky me.

[2:41] I love it.

[2:42] And also for anybody who's tuning in on the YouTube, we both have similar red, I guess is yours red, pink.

[2:48] I don't know what yours is, just hue-wise, but mine's definitely red, red.

[2:51] Cherry red?

[2:53] We both have red wall.

[2:55] Enlivening.

[2:57] That's what I feel.

[2:58] And some people come at me, they're like, does that that is so intense?

[3:00] And I was like, have you met me first of all?

[3:02] But also, like there's something very soothing to me about being in a red space that because you're just being reflected to yourself.

[3:09] 100%.

[3:10] And then it feels somehow leveling, maybe?

[3:12] I don't know.

[3:12] Is that how science works with colors?

[3:14] I don't, you know.

[3:15] Fire, passion, ambition.

[3:17] That part.

[3:19] Yeah.

[3:19] Thank you.

[3:20] Same to you.

[3:21] Right back.

[3:22] This is a right back moment.

[3:23] Um, for anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[3:28] My name is Daniella Rabbani.

[3:30] I am probably best known for, and I and these are question marks.

[3:37] I host a podcast called The Mom Curious Podcast.

[3:40] Yes.

[3:41] And um I have recurred on a show called God Friended Me as Rabbi Zoe.

[3:48] So people recognize me from there or um Oceans 8.

[3:52] Uh there's this like one the first scene.

[3:55] It circulates the internet quite a lot, and it's made me um uh not famous, but adjacent.

[4:03] Famous adjacent.

[4:04] Sure.

[4:05] Famous adjacent.

[4:07] And um not famous enough.

[4:09] I mean, Sandy, Sandra Bullock.

[4:12] Listen, she's she's so famous.

[4:14] Yeah.

[4:15] Anyway, no one really cares about me in that in that clip, but when they find out, it's exciting.

[4:20] It's like a trivia, you know, game.

[4:23] Um, and then uh some other people know me because I sing in Yiddish and I have toured the world actually singing Yiddish folk music and theater, and I I do a lot of work with the Yiddish theater here in New York City and some Jewish advocacy and so I feel like I do a lot of different things, so it's hard to know where you may know me from, but it's nice to be here.

[4:54] Hello.

[4:55] Yeah, and for people who don't know you now they they will at least through this as an access point and hopefully they are curious.

[5:02] See what I did here.

[5:02] Oh, mom curious about that too.

[5:05] I heard that to go and you know find you elsewhere.

[5:08] I'm really grateful that you're in this space.

[5:10] I'm really grateful that you have entered into my life um and that I have been inspired and have been able to be inspired by the way in which you show up in the world, which I feel is deeply grounded, present, empathetic and honest.

[5:36] Um, and for me, in a world that feels really loud and noisy and sparkly for perhaps not necessarily the right reasons, it feels more often than not rare to find people who really are with themselves and are truthful with where they're at and then reflect that back to other people.

[6:00] And so for me, it's just really special to have somebody like yourself in this space who um embodies what I try very hard to do within myself, and um especially in an arts space that can feel so chaotic and consuming and um overwhelming.

[6:18] Um just I I just uh yeah, I'm really grateful that you're here and I'm really excited for whatever this conversation ends up being.

[6:25] So thank you for being here.

[6:28] Daniella Rabbani: Thank you so much for having me.

[6:29] I am actually such a huge fan of your work as as an actor and singer.

[6:33] Oh my god, such a beautiful voice.

[6:35] Thank you.

[6:36] Wow.

[6:37] Um, and I really love this podcast.

[6:40] So I feel really grateful for you and for those really kind words because you know, my initial reaction when you say those things is like, she's talking about herself.

[6:50] But the first thing I really should be doing is accepting that and like taking that in because I um I think that my actor training actually lends itself to I think most actors are wildly empathetic, most but um, and so we're so curious about other people and of ourselves, but really the great actors are embodied.

[7:18] Yeah you know yeah and I think I I really appreciate you noticing that I that my training has brought me to this honest place where sometimes I try I try and share online as openly and honestly as possible in my podcast or on social media and sometimes I have to protect myself.

[7:37] Yeah actual security but um but also emotionally but I do think that as actors we have access to a lot of our groundedness in a way that other people don't necessarily like you'll notice that there are you know these amazing entrepreneurs or gurus or whatever who have theater backgrounds for a reason.

[8:00] I think we actually are so lucky that we've had to ask ourselves like what moves me who who am I in this moment?

[8:10] You know that the fact that I get to sit here and be asked like who are you today?

[8:14] Not everyone gets to answer that question.

[8:16] So anyway But it would be I mean what an exercise in in presence would that be if instead of especially in New York like if instead of being like what do you do it's like who are you today or like who are you in this moment or how you know where do you feel your breath in your body you know like and then just having the ability to go inward for a second before we automatically just you know spurt out the list of things that we do that take up our time, but really more specifically, okay, how am I feeling doing the things that take up my time?

[8:52] Or how did today feel while I was, you know, doing this task that I may or may not have wanted to do.

[8:58] I think there's something very interesting about that.

[8:59] And that's why I asked the question.

[9:01] I think, you know, yes, I want to know what brings somebody into the space so that a listener is able to kind of get a gauge as to where the conversation is going.

[9:09] And also you will have heard my intro, so you will kind of have known.

[9:12] But with that, I think it also gives agency to a human being to like really just put themselves here so that I can meet them where they are.

[9:19] And I'm not trying to force the conversation around something and an agenda which I don't have, you know, around an idea of the thing.

[9:26] But if a person isn't there, then I'm not having a truthful and honest conversation about it, which I think is my job in this space, you know.

[9:34] Hey, Jennifer Apple, who are you today?

[9:36] Oh.

[9:39] Hmm.

[9:40] Yeah, it's rare that I get asked.

[9:41] It's happened very rarely, maybe like on my one hand over the course of the now three seasons we've been doing this, which is wild.

[9:50] Um, who am I today?

[9:53] Today, I am navigating stuckness with more grace than I probably have in the past.

[10:06] I'm trying to migrate from trusting my action self to embody and embolden my protective self from moving uh from from feeling so protected that I can't be in action.

[10:25] So I think that's like my stuckness right now is trying to navigate that and really all aspects of my life relationally, spiritually, uh career-wise, um, you know, trying to uh really recognize what I can control and what I can't control, and trying not to have feelings about the things that I can't control, um, and then letting those feelings ruin my day.

[10:46] So that was pretty abstract.

[10:48] But I guess yeah.

[10:49] Oh that's where my existential brain lives.

[10:53] Yeah, I think I'm I'm in this really interesting, it's been feeling like a pivotal a pivot moment for me for many, many, many, many months.

[11:01] Um, and I don't know if that is a reflection of where I'm at in my life, whether it's a reflection of where the world is and how that's impacting me.

[11:08] I don't know whether that's a reflection of um, you know, elements that I have m may or may not have put into place and how those are all come you know, competing for attention.

[11:21] I don't know, but I've definitely been navigating what it feels to be stuck and how stuckness doesn't have to be an active, but it also needs to you need to have make decisions and an indecision is also a decision.

[11:40] So that's where I'm at today.

[11:42] Daniella Rabbani: Well, I I want to commend you for showing up today.

[11:46] Thank you.

[11:46] Thank you.

[11:47] And you did tell me that um it's a good place for tips.

[11:51] So yeah, please.

[11:53] Something that I like have been doing recently.

[11:57] Um I have an issue with um getting on Instagram and just wasting my life.

[12:03] Yeah, I get it.

[12:04] And feeling and then feeling like physically icky, like dysregulated.

[12:11] And I think that's called an addiction.

[12:14] But what I have been, I've been using it as a sort of treat.

[12:19] Like if you really want to, you know, watch TV essentially, because right?

[12:23] Like that's really what it is.

[12:24] Watch TV.

[12:25] Play the video game.

[12:27] You have to do X, Y, and Z.

[12:31] And one of those things that I have on that list is make a decision about something I've been putting off.

[12:41] And like sometimes I'm afraid that I'm gonna make the wrong decision because guess what?

[12:46] I have made the wrong decision before.

[12:48] Yeah.

[12:49] Like many times.

[12:50] And that's scary because I don't want to make the wrong decision again.

[12:55] But living in indecision is purgatory.

[13:00] Yeah.

[13:01] It's no, it's no fun at all.

[13:03] So that's just uh an offering, you know.

[13:06] Yeah.

[13:07] First of all, that like wasting our time on on the internet is no good.

[13:11] I'm so glad you guys are listening to this podcast instead.

[13:14] But stuckness is a is part of the human experience.

[13:17] And you know, I've been slowly getting myself out of it, also because I'm I'm sensitive um to my environment and the and and world events, but I'm slowly starting to get myself out of it by actively making a decision and allowing myself to be wrong, but having moved forward because it moves the energy inside of me.

[13:41] 100%.

[13:42] I think that's a really helpful like practice that you have for yourself.

[13:47] I also like want to name for an ADD human like myself where like my to-do list is just, you know, never end.

[13:54] I mean, whose to-do list is ever ending, but mine feels never ending and then overwhelming, and even just breaking these things down to even smaller tasks is in and of itself a task.

[14:04] And so, you know, uh for those of us, myself included, who are listening and are like, put something off the to-do list.

[14:11] Then I'm gonna offer even more so like even just looking at the to-do list.

[14:16] You know, like going as small as that and just you know, saying, like, okay, I can do this in 10 minutes, or this can be and reassessing the to-do list is still part of the breaking it down just even further and smaller.

[14:31] Daniella Rabbani: Um I need to do that. I need to like write lists like five million times.

[14:36] Jennifer Apple: Same. I think, you know, it's so funny because I think if I would looking at you, I'm like, you are so wildly accomplished.

[14:43] Daniella Rabbani: That's wild that you feel that way.

[14:46] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, in so many different areas. And um I would never I just assume that oh, all those stuck feelings that I have doesn't present itself in a person like you.

[14:58] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah, you're so successful.

[15:01] Jennifer Apple: And so I I really appreciate you being open about that because it it's just a human, it's just being part of being human.

[15:10] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah, and we don't talk about rest.

[15:12] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, sometimes it can. By the way, sometimes when I that big thing I've been putting off is a nap. I'm tired. I have two kids. I my dog eyed. They're they're the world is upside down. Like sometimes I just need a nap. And that actually is a really um constructive use of my time.

[15:34] Daniella Rabbani: 100%. And it's a choice, it's a decision.

[15:36] Jennifer Apple: It is a decision that you've made. It is a decision that's right to use your time in this way.

[15:40] Daniella Rabbani: Um, and I'm meditation and how to wrap. I mean, whatever floats your boat in terms of like the quieting, you know, I'm not a napper, I don't know how to turn my brain off in that way, but I envy people like yourself who I guess can in theory nap. Um, but yeah, anyway to for me, it's nature and a walk or a hike and just getting out into the quiet and hearing my environment and birds around me.

[16:04] Jennifer Apple: Um I mean, I appreciate you even showing up and having this kind of conversation with me. Part of me feels like I just want to sit in, you know, the like emotional part of unpacking, you know, stuckness for you in your artistic life, which I guess we can kind of keep in the peripheral, maybe as we move into a little bit more of the like practical stuff. So I'm just gonna note that because I am curious because we've we've brought it into the space.

[16:32] Jennifer Apple: Hi, actor friends, talking to you. If finding the perfect monologue has you feeling stuck, I've got just the thing. I put together a free monologue selection toolkit just for you. It's packed with resources, free and paid options, plus tips for choosing, editing, and customizing pieces to showcase you. Head over to jenniferapple.net slash freebie and stop avoiding the auditions that ask for a monologue or waiting for the perfect piece to simply fall into your lap. Dive into this free toolkit that I set up just for you that'll set you up to feel agency over your process and artistry. That's jenniferapple.net slash freebie and get started on finding your next go-to monologue.

[17:13] Jennifer Apple: But I am also curious about why you decided to create your podcast for moms, and also as a mother in the arts, what that has been like for you in terms of holding space for your creativity while simultaneously being a mother.

[17:35] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah, it's a real unfolding, partially because my children are in different stages every every so often, every six months, let's say. And I my type is changing, the world is changing.

[17:50] Daniella Rabbani: And I think, you know, before your type you mean like artistically, like in the sphere of where you're cast, like that type.

[17:56] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[17:57] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah. I'm like, I I like played a mom, you know, in this like off Broadway musical. And it was so funny. It was like one of the actors was like giving me a compliment on opening night and he was like, you're like a second mother to me. And all I could think was like and I told the the musical director and the director who are very good friends of mine and I was like I was the hot one. Like what the fuck was that you are still hot.

[18:27] Jennifer Apple: I mean I think that's an interesting thing though to think that like just because he told you that you're a second mother you're negating your attractiveness because as though mothers can't be hot.

[18:35] Daniella Rabbani: It was the craziest it felt like what the fuck just happened and what happened was 10 years had happened. You know and like my type has changed which I'm really I'm glad about I actually never really understood how to use my youth and beauty and and in in a way that made sense for me. I'm not like a in some spheres like at the Yiddish theater I would be a leading lady but i in TV and film I'm very much a character actress. And I didn't always know what to do with myself in that type, but now I'm like, I'm like a mom. I'm just like a mom, you know, like a funny mom. And um, so there's that to navigate, and there's also like, well, how much do I want to spend time with my kids, right? Like when they were babies, I really, really enjoyed that time, and I wanted to be there with them in a way that I didn't expect.

And I had a thriving voiceover and commercial career when my son was born, and a budding TV and film career. And it was sort of the train was on the tracks, and I could hang out with him all I wanted and make good money and spend a day on set and then come home. And it felt like, oh my gosh, I'm living the life. And then the pandemic hit, and my daughter was born, and everything changed because everything changed.

[20:15] Daniella Rabbani: And it was around that time that I realized, oh, there really isn't support for artist mothers. And um, mothers in general, by the way. This idea that, like, oh my gosh, I have this talent, this drive, this ambition, this calling to make the world more beautiful, more inclusive, more musical, um, with myself, with my me. And I also have a tremendous responsibility on, you know, in mothering, and a pleasure, by the way. I saw that many actors would wait until they felt like their career was in a place where they could have children, and sometimes they felt like they were waiting too long. I, you know, there was there was the big conversation from for many of my peers around when am I supposed to have a kid?

Can I ever afford it, etc.? And so I started this podcast. I pitched it to the producer who was you know starting this podcast channel, and I pitched it to her. Like, I just feel like there's not enough talk about when to have a baby and why and how and the absolute like seal of approval around not having kids at all.

[21:41] Daniella Rabbani: I just published a um, I think it's like my 110th episode at this point, and it was like really honoring the dog moms. Like there are so many different things. I was like, oh my god, I feel so seen. Yeah, because like there are so many different ways to mother. And I think if we could honor that in each other, and not to mother, by the way. I one of my guests is a Tony nominated actress, Caitlin Kinninen, who I loved so much, she tied her tubes at 30 years old, and I got to sit down with her and let the world know, like that's an option too. I think there's a lot of secrecy around women's sexuality and uh reproductive choice and health, and um so I'm a storyteller, so I got to tell these stories, and also what ended up happening was I had a little more agency over my life.

For me, it was also like an outlet to tell stories and to shine a light on other people, and you know, like dig into my craft, yeah, while it being mine, you know. Like, I wasn't ready to do the off Broadway musical, which by the way, I did, and it is a big lift. It's a big lift for a mother of two, and it was worth it, but it really was who a lot of work. I don't think we recognize, by the way, how much work it is to be an actor physically. Like, I'm gonna turn 40, and I just could feel it. And it doesn't mean that like I'm old or I'm creaky or I'm bad or whatever, but like I could really look in the dressing room at these beautiful, beautiful musical theater artists and say, like what you do is athletic.

It is so much work. And I just honor you, and I honor me for having done it. Anyway, I wasn't able to do it before. So I uh launched a podcast because I just couldn't sit around and let these gifts not be given to the world.

[24:02] Jennifer Apple: So yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. I I think what your podcast is doing, obviously, it's not, you know, necessarily in the artist, like you're not only exclusively talking to artists, but I there is an artistry around the way in which you are having these conversations. You are also shedd on the many different ways to be a mother or not. Like I think the full conversation is really enveloped in what you're doing. And I'm I'm excited to to kind of name it in this space. You know, I a lot of our listeners are young in a way that perhaps they're not thinking about this chapter in their lives, and then there are, I imagine, others who are perhaps more in the thinking of the chapter, and then there are others who may already have this chapter of their lives.

However, that looks, you know, for me, um, I thought at this point when I thought I was in my 20s, that I would 100% have children by this point in my life. Um, and I I have my dog son, Walter, who is the love of my life, and he is the best thing that has ever happened to me, hands down, period. Um questions asked whatsoever. And I froze my eggs, I guess is it almost two years ago now. Um thank you. And I never thought I would do that either. Um, and I did that for my own agency and also um hopefully protecting my desire and that I want so that I am able to, God willing, if and when that presents itself, have that option for myself. And it was a huge privilege to be able to do that. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's not your health and uh if I'm finances.

Yeah, I just yeah, it was one of the biggest investments. It was the hands down the biggest investment I've ever made, really in anything. I don't I don't own a car, you know, like I don't I I don't own property. Like there's this was I spent I saved and spent a lot of money and also naming that I had family that did help um not fully, but you know, they assisted in that. Um, and there are organizations, actually, two Jewish organizations. Um, if you I don't know, you probably know this, but like two Jewish organizations that yeah, um, for anybody who's listening who identifies as Jewish, um, there are two Jewish organizations who will help you financially um with that lift, um, which I learned about literally the week I was doing my shots.

Um, so that was too late for me. But I want other people to know that it exists for them. Um yeah, I mean, it was it was a lot and it was a privilege and it was in intense, and it was um the biggest gift of freedom, I think I could have given myself so that I don't feel the pressure that I have forget society, which is a huge pressure, but that I have within myself of wanting this thing that I don't yet have. Um but I think again, you're doing that in a space where you're having these conversations that I think are really empowering, and I'm grateful to have them here with you just for the artist space specifically.

[27:11] Daniella Rabbani: As you have interviewed, say artists or even just being one yourself, what have you many actors, many, many actors? Because you know, because you know who's your network you know, we roll in packs 100%.

[27:24] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[27:24] Daniella Rabbani: So I'm curious what are some of the things that you have found to be maybe some of the takeaways of humans who are trying to have families um while balancing an artistic career. Um and obviously including yourself in this conversation because you are also that.

[27:42] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah. First of all, I just want to say that um getting a dog is a great thing. I mean, it it is a it is a tragedy that that they do not live longer. And I just want to say that because I just lost my dog. But even in his death, there was so much love. Oh my God. It was just like there is just so much love, and there's nothing like really feeling yourself as a in that maternal space, if you are feeling that biological or emotional itch. I really I just it is a lot of work and it's probably 20 or 30 percent of the work that you'll feel as a mother, and that's a huge percentage if you are you know uh interested in that experience.

[28:28] Daniella Rabbani: Another thing that I do hear a lot of actors and writers and artists um do is freeze their eggs, which I think offers them a lot of agency and uh a feeling of like no matter what it will happen, it can happen, you know, in in they they say in Hebrew Bisha Atova in the in a holy time in the right time.

[28:50] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, so sometimes people get pregnant by accident. Also just interrupting you because sha'atova is like actually like in the good hour, which I think is interesting. Like we're not even talking about like we're not saying shana, like you're not saying a year, you're saying sha'a, like an hour, like which I think is very specific.

[29:09] Daniella Rabbani: It's actually the blessing you say to someone when they tell you they're pregnant, you say bishaatova, because we believe that when a soul descends from the ether or the heavens, etc. through the woman, it is in the exact right hour. Yeah, um, and so I think it's just beautiful pointing that out. Yeah, so beautiful, and it's also very helpful because really the due date is about a month long, it's not on that one day. You can give birth to a healthy full-term baby two weeks before and two weeks after your due date. And so it's always nice to know that it's Bisha Atoba. That it, you know, there is a very spiritual experience to bring life into the world. Um, and I think for artists and actors, we know spirit, we know what having a spiritual, artistic, creative experience is and how valuable that is. And so this decision to have a child, not to have a child, and when to have a child, it really weighs heavily on many of us actors because we value creation.

[30:24] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[30:24] Daniella Rabbani: Um, and so sometimes people get pregnant by accident, and uh, you know, I say you're more than welcome to abort if that is right for you. And also, you know, if you do believe that this baby is coming in the right time, you just saddle up and make it happen. I have one friend who came on the podcast, her name is Allie Cobran. She just had a child, and she wasn't expecting to be a mother right then and there, but she is making it work, and she's on a TV show now, and she's a very, very, very hands-on partner, which is huge. Um, other people who have um let's say decided to be um single mothers because for whatever reason it didn't work out for a partner to come into the picture. Maybe they did sperm donation, um, they lean on community.

My friend Mara, who came on to talk about that experience, chosen single motherhood, she moved in with her parents because I do think part of the reason why it's so hard for actors to embark on this uh motherhood journey here in the United States is because we live a very independent, individualistic uh life, and in many ways that has served us, and in the realm of family and motherhood, it is extremely isolating, and it really like headbanging what the is going on here, like this doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't. So I just want to, as you say, name that that doesn't make sense in community is so important.

[32:13] Daniella Rabbani: Um something that I learned from Lynn Cohen, actually, who she was in the Hunger Games, she played Magda in Sex in the City, she played my grandmother in my film called Oma. You can see it on Amazon Prime, and um she just told me that when she did have a child because she wanted a child, everything felt deeper and richer, and her career actually really popped. And I think that there's this idea that like if we have a child, um if we have a child, we lose our hotness. There we go, full circle. Yeah, if we have a child, if I play the mom type, then I'm not the hot mom type. Um I'll be tired, I'll be this or that. But for her, and I would say for myself also, in many ways, um there is like a depth to like a 3D to life that didn't exist before.

And so on an artistic level, maybe on a logistical level, it is more challenging, but on an artistic level, it is deeper. Um I think it's really important to say that like for people who just don't want children, don't have them. We have enough people on this earth. And like, you know what I mean?

[33:36] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[33:37] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah. Uh and I think actually the theater community knows that. There is something, you know, I was one of two mothers in my cast this past fall, and there's reason for it because it really is an athletic sport being in the theater. And if you want to dedicate your life to that, like, oof, thank you. Thank you for that. And if you don't, and you do want to postpone having children into your 40s, let's say, I just want to say, right on. So many women are doing it, and advanced maternal age is um seen to be a real positive for people and for their children. You'll notice they'll the kids do better in school. There is more money and affluence in the home, and so you have more choices. You also have more community. Sometimes in the United States, community is paid for.

[34:33] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[34:34] Daniella Rabbani: Health. And um generally speaking, you have more money, you know, when you're older, you also are so much more grateful for your children. You know, all those moms who are rolling their eyes at their snot-nosed kids, like that makes sense. That absolutely makes sense. And I'm one of them a lot of the time, but there is a sense, like when you have your children later in life, like wow, like we did it, we're here, and um, and a real appreciation. Uh, and I know that there is a lot of talk around fertility and and uh miscarriage, or maybe there's not enough talk, but I would say there's not, but yeah, there's not enough talk. Having miscarriages is very normal. Uh, when it persists, I think it's worth looking into.

But miscarriages in general are normal. They would be perceived as just chunky periods um back in the day before we knew more about miscarriages. Um that's like the body's rehearsal in many ways. I had one nearly everyone in my um on my podcast has had one. And like I said, we've we're at like a hundred and twenty interviews right now. And um I just I want you to know that that's normal. There is an issue with fertility it um in the world and certainly in our country, and part of that is because people are waiting, but that doesn't mean that you won't have children. Like there's something really beautiful about this exploration that I've been doing on the podcast, which is like an adopted mother is a mother.

A hundred percent. Mother is a mother, a mother who had who had their children by surrogacy. My friend Jamie, who's on the podcast, she breastfed those children, having never given birth to them through her body. So those not only that, they're genetically, you know, they carry her genes. And there are women who have egg donation. I mean, these are their children, these are their children, and that is a mother, and uh and they came the sha'atova. They really came in the perfect hour, yeah. So I say I say that and I remind you of the mysticism of it all because I know that when we're speaking to artists that we understand that, like that we understand that like we'll get to that Broadway stage really when that when like when the stars align, you know.

Like we know that there's a desire in us to do this work and the fact that someone pressed play on this podcast. There's something about the artist, the actor that knows that I was put on this earth to do this thing. And it's similar as a mother, and it's just a matter of time. That's a that's out of our hands, you know.

[37:40] Jennifer Apple: Um but that out of hands-ness is a holy experience.

[37:47] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah, it is for the artist too, like that longing, that longing to do their next gig, but that longing also pulls us forward when it doesn't paralyze us, when we're not stuck, yeah, which also happens.

[38:00] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[38:02] Daniella Rabbani: That was a beautiful, beautiful diatribe in the best way. So thank you for all of that.

[38:08] Jennifer Apple: No, I don't know another what's in a better word, like a uh like a um verbose expression has that. Um I feel like there are a couple things that I hear in this. I love naming the creation part of it, the correlations between creation of like you know, artistry and like making something out of nothing as storytellers and whatever you know, mode of creation you are doing or artistry, you have created something out of nothing and/or you created something through you, and also paralleling that to what it means to create life as a mother in whatever form and capacity you've chosen or not to do so. I love that parallel because it really is in many respects just like an extension of the way in which we as artists express ourselves.

It's just doing so in a different mode and method. Um, and so I think you know, I leave even for myself, when I think about motherhood, it feels like for sure a different chapter and a different season of my life. But arguably it is just it is an extension of the way in which I create. I'm just doing so through a different method at this, you know, point. And then I get to you know, imbue all my artistry into a beautiful life, if that is my path, right? So I love that. I also love naming the financial aspect, frankly, of it for artists specifically, certainly for humans generally. Beyond, and I think at least within my sphere of friends, I think that is actually one of the larger questions. Yes, there is the like, okay.

Well, my career is in some sort of momentum. I don't want to stop said momentum. When is the right time? That is definitely a huge conversation, and the added layer of the instability of what it means to be an artist without the you know benefits of you know, secure health insurance, let alone, you know, income. Um, that being a real factor if you don't have a partner or if you have a partner that is also an artist and you don't have something else in said community that you're mentioning that allows you to have that financial stability to raise a literal living, breathing human being for the rest of your life.

[40:20] Daniella Rabbani: Um I guess important, and I think that that's part of the reason why I love your podcast so much. It's like, well, go out, go ahead and click on on the audiobook narration. Go ahead and, you know, click on that that chick who decided to move to Jersey and not, you know, pay so much rent at uh you know a um in in Manhattan or whoever else go ahead and click on, you know, the coach who's gonna get you that six figure income through commercials or you know money's important.

[40:53] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[40:54] Daniella Rabbani: And I don't I think we try to I I it's like I hesitate to be like it's not like that is it's a real thing. It's a very real thing. Children need you to make money.

[41:06] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[41:06] Daniella Rabbani: And they need to live in a healthy living situation. They need you not to be stressed. These are real needs. Yeah. There's a big psychologist who says I think it's Carl Jung the uh one of the most traumatic things for a child is the unlived life of their parents and I do feel like your child needs you to get on mic and talk to Jennifer Apple and be yourself and put on a cute lip they need that because otherwise the resentment builds and that is yucky and it and it sticks it sticks to the nervous system. So the idea of a of stressing out around money um it's not in your head these are real issues and it's not a value it's not like oh but I don't value money I value art. Okay so move to the country move to the country. You want to have kids, move to the country and spend less.

[42:04] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[42:05] Daniella Rabbani: That's important. But you have to make accommodations for it. I think something that um the children really drive home is that you're the adult.

[42:14] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[42:15] Daniella Rabbani: You're the adult. I mean, and it's taking me a long time to grow up. And many of us still don't. But you gotta be an adult. And part of being an adult is understanding that you need to make money and insurance, etc. And make good choices in order to have children in your care.

[42:35] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[42:36] Daniella Rabbani: Which is, I think a really large shift. I think there's also just it it is scary to be like, okay, at what cost am I making these choices? Or in what aspect of my life am I going to then be compromising parts of myself in order to make these accommodations? Um, I mean, I certainly don't have the answers to it because I haven't been through this experience, this you know, human experience of birthing children. But like I think about it often. I think about okay, if you know, without knowing the other individuals or arrangements in my life that um would allow me to support said child, what for myself would I need to shift in order to prioritize, which is what it is, prioritize another living human being. Um I don't have the answers to it, but I I think even just naming the fact we all know conceptually that that is something that needs to be taken into account, the finances of talk about it, except for me and you.

[43:42] Daniella Rabbani: Just me and you, just like two ballsy Jew asses. Like, we're just like, excuse me. I want to be a mom, but I want to be a good mom. Yeah, and uh we gotta talk about we gotta talk about nuts and bolts. Have you been using the same monologue for years? Are you gearing up to apply for BA, BFA, or MFA programs and need pieces for that process? Or maybe you just have no idea where to even start with monologue hunting. I get it. And that's why I offer monologue sourcing. This is a unique process where I find monologues chosen specifically for you. So many artists pick pieces based on external labels like type or for roles rather than finding material that represents who they truly are. So here's how it works.

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[45:19] Jennifer Apple: If you had to give a couple that you've heard at least over the course of your hundred and plus episodes, what are some themes that you have heard on the financial realm that people have done or chosen to do or explored?

[45:32] Daniella Rabbani: Mostly all those mom fluencers, all of those, like I'm killing it, and I'm a mom, most of them have a partner who can support the family. Yeah. And now that does that mean that we weren't that my family, let's say, wasn't relying on that voiceover and commercial money and you know, uh the my SAG insurance, which is fantastic. Absolutely. But when push came to shove, I have a partner who also has a job. Yeah. And I, you know, I'm like I'm just like I'm sitting here being like, we're naming the elephant or naming the elephant in the room. And it's like, did we we all knew that also? Yeah. I just don't know that and also as something else that the you want to talk about like uh an elephant, people have nannies.

Yep. How are you gonna make money if you're still with if you're a stay-at-home mom? Those stay-at-home moms on the internet, they are not staying home. They are not staying home. They have uh an iPhone in the kids' face whenever they're around. Yeah, and by the way, who's in the background making dinner? Yeah, a nanny. Yeah. So let's say somebody does not have the privilege of finding a partner who can support them in this way, then what? Well, you you already started, right? So you did the savings, you did the community outreach, you did the freezing the eggs, you did the holding out, you did the having the dog, you did the having the conversations, we consider how do we spend less and make more.

Also, as actors, I'm sorry guys, we got time on our hands. Okay. If you're a if you're a great coach, we got a coach if you can do the um audiobook narration you gotta do the audiobook narration if this is what you want there there also is nothing wrong with taking a side job or like Mara who has a startup and decided to have a baby on her own she moved in with her parents that might not be a decision I'd want to make or could make honestly but it's nice to know she exists and that kind of idea exists or um if you are having a a a child with someone you're not in partnership with maybe you're still sharing custody with you know there are there are ways if you are doing single parenthood to make it work but it it really does require creativity and hustle and it's not nothing even surrogacy even uh you know egg donation or sperm donation or adoption costs money so much costs money and requires support because the real thing about parenthood in particular when you're you know a an actor or an artist you need community and you need support.

[47:27] Jennifer Apple: Yeah I mean in general don't you think in general a hundred percent. And I mean, again, I'm just hearing the parallels, albeit very differently, obviously, but the parallels between what it is to be a mother and what it means to be an artist. And again, the Venn diagram where they meet, and or just the way in which, you know, there's the creation part of it, there is the flexibility and the you know, thinking on your feet part of it, there's the community part of it, and how do you make that happen? And then there's the thinking in a way to support financially, energetically, time-wise, all of those things, you know, to make both of those things happen. It's not a far cry from frankly what we do on a daily basis as artists to transition that necessarily into what it means to be a mother.

It just is a it's a different set of circumstances, which again, as actors, we know how to drop into necessarily if we build out the world, whatever. I just I'm hearing the overlap of the two and the the ways for it to be in large quotations successful if one were to be choosing to go down that path for themselves.

[50:04] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah, and there's also the wonder of both. I think like, you know, they say they say that like the root chakra or the anyway, your your your sexuality and your creativity are very linked because your sexuality actually does create life. Yeah, and um, you know, there there's a reason why people's ambition does dampen when they are in the throes of motherhood. It doesn't always happen, but it can, because you're quenching that thirst of you know, really seeing the world with new eyes, um profound empathy, um creativity and learning and all that performance, it all really does happen in motherhood too. Sometimes it that means I prefer this over that. Often it doesn't, you know, it's like I have a season here and a season there.

Um, I remember following Laura Bananti online, and our our first children are around the same age, and she couldn't get to work fast enough. And there are so many women like that. There really are. I just I just uh you know, interviewed a woman who was a CEO and felt the same way. Like some people aren't into the newborn experience. And I think similar to how we got into the conversation around being an artist really means that you have access to yourself. The good news is when we know, we know. Oh, I really want this and it's worth it for me. Uh, or I really want to stay home with my kids and it's worth it for worth it for me. It's like fun for me. Or I want to go, you know, back to the office or back on stage, whatever. I just hope that we can know ourselves and not shame ourselves on top of that knowing.

[51:54] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. And that there's no wrong way of doing it, barring anybody, you know, being in danger, other than like and and safety, but there's no right way of making those decisions. It's like if yeah, if you know yourself enough to know that actually by going to work very soon after, that will fill my cup so that when I come back home to be with my child, I am full, I am present, I'm available, I'm ready, I'm willing, I'm able. Like that is a very real knowing that your kid will know. Like, there's no way that we all know that a hundred percent. Every single one of us was a kid, every single one. We knew. We might not be able to press it, but you could you could you would sense it. She my mom was is my mom is a beautiful mother, and she loved working.

She's a creative little like fairy. Like she just needs to be. Yeah. Like she just loves, she loves people. And like maybe she didn't want to be with like she didn't want to whip my butt all the time. You know? And like I knew. I knew. And it's okay. I I feel the same way for myself. I enjoy my children. I honor them and I respect them and I respect their littleness and how fleeting this is. And they don't want me around all the time. They do not. Like I I ain't got it for you all the time, baby. Like, I'm sorry.

[53:30] Daniella Rabbani: I love it. I'm really grateful that we even just like brought this into the ether of the conversation. Um, you know, I haven't had this kind of chat on the podcast yet. And I think it is something that many of us, even peripherally think about or have thought about or might think about, and just to even name it as something that artists may at some point encounter as a thought, let alone an action, um, is really important for me to do in this space. Um, you know, because I I'm really trying to empower artists to think for their full long, beautiful, thriving, sustainable career and not just in this immediate moment for themselves, and to even begin just planting those seeds of this might happen, this might not happen, this might be something that I might want to experience or might want to be curious about, and just putting that into the ether. So I'm really grateful to even just name it with you.

[54:28] Jennifer Apple: As we begin to wind down our time, is there anything that I haven't asked or I would be remiss to not have brought up with you in this space?

[54:40] Daniella Rabbani: I just want to say that of all the actor um parents that I know, the actors and the artists are so beautiful with their kids. Yeah. It's like artistry in and of itself. It really is. Like how we honor human life and curiosity. And my my closest friends who are not parents, maybe they'll never be, maybe they will. It actually doesn't matter. When they hang out with my kids, it is so fucking cool. Yeah. It's so cool.

[55:17] Jennifer Apple: So yeah, I just I thought I'd say that out loud. Just that like there is an aptitude that I think actors and artists have with children or respect, you know, like access. And I think it's kind of magical.

[55:31] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah. I adore you. I love I love your energy. I love your brain. I love the way you express yourself. Even just like seeing you in this color palette in your little space is just like everything. Um for anybody who wants to check out more of what you do, who wants to listen to your podcast, who wants to work with you, hire you, what within your boundaries is best for people to reach you.

[55:57] Daniella Rabbani: You can follow me at Daniella Rabbani on Instagram or at momcurious, which I'm just starting to like build up a little bit. Um I try to hang out there as much and as little as possible. I just think I want to be there for community and I also need to not be there for my mental health. I I I think that's true for everyone. I'm just I'm dropping that for everyone.

[56:25] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[56:26] Daniella Rabbani: If you want to see my work you can go to Daniella Rabbani.com and you know you can always you know hit me up and we can hang out. I would love that.

[56:36] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Jennifer Apple and I are gonna hang out.

[56:38] Daniella Rabbani: Yeah right 100% once we did and that would make you guys jealous when it happened it did and it's gonna happen again.

[56:48] Jennifer Apple: I adore you thank you so much for being in this space and for um sharing of your time and your heart and your energy and um I'm really grateful.

[56:56] Daniella Rabbani: Thank you I'm so grateful to you.

[56:58] Jennifer Apple: That's it for today's episode I hope you walk away with some fresh insights feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough every step forward counts. You've got this and we're here cheering you on every step of the way if you found today's episode helpful don't forget to hit subscribe so you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week and if something today really resonated with you please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations plus we feel the love too when you do and don't keep all this goodness to yourself.

Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag at empowered artistcollective and at Jennifer Apple underscore so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating, keep thriving, stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple. Until next time.