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[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello. Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry. Whether you're just starting out in the thick of it or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place. In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable creative life. We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life. Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review. It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you. And hey, feel free to spread the love. Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there. All right, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

What does it take to turn your creative ideas into finished projects? In this episode, I talked to Sujata Day, actor, writer, director, and producer who shares her journey as a multi-hyphenate artist. She discusses how taking pressure off herself has led to new creative inspiration, the importance of deep outlining before script writing, and how networking through genuine relationships opened doors in her career. Together, we talk about the importance of allowing ideas to flow, the realities of pitching, funding, and producing projects, and the importance of starting small, assembling the right team, and treating every opportunity as a stepping stone. Whether you're an emerging creator or an established artist, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you confidently take your next steps. Enjoy.

[2:05] Sujata Day: Hello.

[2:06] Jennifer Apple: Hi. I'm super grateful to have you in this space. For anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[2:14] Sujata Day: Today I am well rested. I've been dancing a lot. That's kind of my new thing. I take dance classes, hip hop, jazz, screw. It's been so fun. Learning choreography. It uh exercises the mind and the body, and I'm just having a blast.

[2:35] Jennifer Apple: Yes. Is this part of like your normal cadence? Isn't like dance has always been a part of what you do, or this is a new addition?

[2:43] Sujata Day: So I grew up dancing. I grew up doing partnatium, which is Indian classical dance. And then I expanded out into ballet, jazz, hip hop, uh later on and cheerleading. And it was so fun that it's been, I think I've been doing it for like three-ish years now, consistently. And when I started getting back into it, I noticed that I could not pick up choreography at all. Um, but the more I do it, the better I get at remembering the moves. And it is such a great exercise in when you're learning a dance and learning the routine, you can't think about anything else.

[3:29] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[3:29] Sujata Day: Like that's where you have to be in the moment. And I'm just like obsessed with it. And that's all I really talk about anymore.

[3:38] Jennifer Apple: Honestly, I'm here for it. Uh, it's really, I have a lot of friends too that they're like, I'm not a dancer, but this is what I do. A as my form of exercise, with B as this form of discipline, and C as a way to meet people, and like the list goes on and on and on. But it is something that they've added in now. I wouldn't even say like later in life. It's not like we're old, but like, you know, like in their adult land of life. Um, and they love it a lot. Good on you. How often are you going?

[4:00] Sujata Day: I go like five times a week.

[4:02] Jennifer Apple: Oh, you're going. You're really in it. You're like really committed.

[4:06] Sujata Day: Almost like sometimes I take video in the class and I'm like, should I reach out to dance agents?

[4:14] Jennifer Apple: You might. You might want to. This might be the move.

[4:16] Sujata Day: This might be the additional hyphen.

[4:21] Jennifer Apple: Look, you know, it's never too late.

[4:24] Sujata Day: It is never too late. I love that. Um, well, I mean, this is a perfect little segue uh in terms of adding into the additional hyphens that you have for your life, you know, we as we may tag on the dancer hyphen towards the end of it. Um, I'm curious to talk about the other hyphens that usually occupy your time.

[4:43] Sujata Day: Yeah, I have a ton of hyphens. I am an actor, a writer, a director, a producer. I sing a little bit, mostly karaoke, but um yeah, I love to sing and dance, obviously, but I am uh yeah, I'm pretty focused on all of those hyphens. Um it's really great to be a multi-hyphenate because when one hyphen is not really moving forward, you know, another one is usually uh taking steps.

[5:22] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Do you find that you are choosing when you are putting on one of the hats or the other, or is it more that you let the universe kind of guide you and then you put them on as needed?

[5:36] Sujata Day: I put them on as needed. You know, I write a lot of my own material. I have six spec features kind of making the rounds right now. I have a uh half hour multicam comedy pilot that's also making the rounds right now. And what was really funny is at the beginning of 2025, I decided I am not gonna write this year. Because I have six feature films that are ready to shoot, and I have a comedy pilot that's ready to go. And so I refuse. So it's just like something that I told myself, and then what started happening is that in the middle of the night at 3 a.m. I would wake up with an incredible idea, and I'd be like, What why now? Because I told myself I wasn't gonna write, but something that my friends were telling me is that I took the pressure off myself.

[6:32] Jennifer Apple: Correct.

[6:33] Sujata Day: And um, then the ideas just started coming. Like I got an idea for a slasher movie. I got an idea for uh a book.

[6:42] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[6:43] Sujata Day: Which is crazy. Like I've never written a book, but I started writing like I have like 600 words of it, like nothing crazy. But I was like, oh, interesting. I don't I don't know why I got this like book idea um that I haven't worked on, you know, because I I am not writing right now.

[7:03] Jennifer Apple: So well, I think it's interesting because you're naming we've had a couple of different folks who have like talked about their multi-hyphenate journey and also like how they balance their different hats. And I think what I'm hearing from you, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you allow yourself to go with your influence and that it is like if you have some sort of gut impulse inspiration that comes to you, you do trust it and then you lean in where it's like okay, if at three in the morning I have this, I have to get up and I have to follow it versus actually it's three in the morning, I need to sleep, and we're gonna push this to the side and not deal with it right now.

[7:39] Sujata Day: You know, I don't I'm generally like if I do wake up at 3 a.m., I just put in my notes app, right? Like I don't wake up and go to the laptop and start, you know, start writing, start a script. I'm just like, oh, that's an interesting idea. It's just like a log line, or it's just uh a cool title, and I'm like, ah, that's I get that's the title. Um, so I I don't immediately go to the computer. I'm I'm very uh I prioritize rest a lot. So I'm not getting out of bed. Um prioritize rest, uh food, dance exercise, as we already talked about, dance. Um and uh that's most important to me because I know that it can wait until I wake up the next morning.

[8:28] Jennifer Apple: So then how do you then come back to it and give yourself the structure for it, right? Obviously, it takes a moment to write some things, or maybe it doesn't, maybe you're the kind of person that like it comes out of you and you sit and it just happens and then you edit. Uh how do you give yourself the time, space, energy to allow these things to move through you?

[8:46] Sujata Day: It definitely takes a moment. I'm not someone who can just sit down and you know, bust out like 15 pages on a final draft. I'm a big fan of recently I just do huge, huge outlines. So I'm using Save the Cat beats. I am uh beating out an outline, making sure I have really fun set pieces, really interesting characters, and what are their relationships to each other? So I figure out all of that before I even get to writing a script.

[9:20] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[9:21] Sujata Day: Um there are three scripts, three features that I wrote recently that, you know, throughout the years, they've been like different treatments of like TV show or go back to the feature or go back to a TV show. And so they came out to be like 20 page treatments. So as I was developing that, I realized that at the end of that process where it, you know, didn't get bought by just being a pitch. I was just like, well, I have this, this idea is fully fleshed out. All I really need to do is sit down and write the script. So then what I've done recently, and this is kind of like a cool trick that I learned from Thomas Lennon's book. I believe it's called How to How to Write Movies for Fun and Profit, but it's an amazing screenwriting book where you basically take the outline and you plug it in the final draft, and then you do the scene headings.

And once if you have a really great outline that's like, I don't know, 10 to 15 pages long, you're already like 20 pages into a final draft. And then you have to just, you know, go into those scene headings and write the scenes and write the dialogue, and you've got it.

[10:45] Jennifer Apple: Amazing. Um let's go to them. It seems like as you have these, you have figured out a way to get in the doors. I feel like a lot we've had a lot of folks to talk about writing and the stages of writing, and we had somebody to talk about um, you know, pitching and we've had we've had these conversations in various episodes, but it seems like you have had a lot of success in opening up doors. How did you begin that journey? How did you have a team that knocks on them for you? Do you reach out to different people that you know and have relationships with um to get into these rooms? Are you people coming to you now that they know your work? Like what is the cadence of you beginning to have these relationships?

[11:25] Sujata Day: You know, it's it all happens in different ways. It's definitely about relationships, it's definitely about networking. It's definitely about do you live in LA or New York to go to different events? Like that's really important. I know there's a lot of people saying right now, stay in your hometown, you know, do videos in your hometown and do YouTube and stuff. And yes, you should definitely do that, especially if you don't have the means to move to New York or LA. But at some point, you're gonna have to move to New York or LA to like go to the things that we go to. And they're not even like big red carpet events. It's just like get together. It's birthday parties. It's you know, lunches with a group of friends where you might not know two or three of the people.

Like it's I'm not talking about, you know, big parties where you have to wear a ball gown and get hair and makeup done. I'm just talking about I go to karaoke parties and I meet people there, you know? Like it's just about saying yes to all the events that you're invited to, and you also don't have to, you know get drunk at these things. You don't have to drink. Like like I karaoke until six in the morning without having one glass of alcohol.

[12:41] Jennifer Apple: So good on you. That's that's actually I would put that on your special skills because I don't know if that's something that everybody can do.

[12:48] Sujata Day: I mean except like I might lose my voice but yeah besides that.

[12:52] Jennifer Apple: Yeah um but yeah I I feel like all the doors that I've opened on my own um have been through relationships from starting back to awkward black girl and that was I believe that started 13 years ago.

[13:09] Sujata Day: Talk us through that cadence through maybe now.

[13:12] Jennifer Apple: Yeah yeah yeah of course so that was when Twitter wasn't really a thing yet people were like just getting on Twitter kind of I had just left Facebook. I did it before it was cool to leave Facebook. And I was like I need a social media obviously I need something to keep in touch with people so then I just started a Twitter. Nobody was on there and that's how I started following Issa Rae on Twitter and she started following me back and this was when we didn't have a ton of followers and a couple days later she tweeted out she was looking for um an actress to play her best friend on her web series and I reached out and I said would love to audition so went to her house to audition and I got the role and um you know, it wasn't any pay and and I was also doing this was at a time when I was doing like uh USC auditions and AFI film auditions and just building up my reels.

[14:17] Sujata Day: So I was saying yes to everything that felt good and that felt right. And um, so we shot Aqua Black Girl on the weekends and um at night, and it was super fun, and I'm so glad I said yes. And it was during that time that obviously Aqua Black Girl started to blow up, and that's when people started reviewing it, and I've made relationships from the Aqua Black Girl days with journalists, with uh executives, with uh people who were kind of just starting out in the industry as well. Like we were all kind of in it together, and um then after we shot second season, it just kind of blew up from there, and yes, people were reaching out to me, but um once again I was like going to the event, just hanging out with people, meeting new people, um, a friend of a friend of a friend, and these are the people from like 13, 12, 13 years ago that I connect with now to read my scripts, so it's not an instant process, you know, and that's something that really helped with Definition Please and getting Definition Please out there is that there were you know a handful of journalists that hopped on reviewing Aqua Black Girl back in the day that I reached out to, you know, 13 years later, and they were like, happy to review your film. Let's do it. So I think a lot of you know, newbies think that it's like a very instant process that you're gonna get it into the hands of the president of Sony, and that's just like not gonna happen.

[16:10] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, well, what I'm hearing, no, I mean it's true. Like what I'm hearing from you is that you're reaping the seeds that you sowed, right? Rich is just like, you know, you planted these seeds and they happened genuinely where you were doing good work and you were showing up and these people were seeing it, and then you know, you kept the relationships again genuine and were like, hey, this is me now, this is what I have. I appreciated what you do and what you've done. Can you do this now? Um, which feels like a more um easy ask, frankly. I think a lot of it is, you know, there is a fear around, you know, well, I don't want to be a burden, or what if I'm too what if you know the scope is to quote unquote below somebody, or they don't know enough about and we we can psych ourselves out of that, and it seems like you have you had enough data and also real relationships to be like, hey, you know me enough to know, would you? And then the ask is a little bit more from a place of um a genuine connection rather than um something that feels like a heavy lift.

[17:10] Sujata Day: Yeah, also don't ignore the people who are in the trenches with you. Like I did UCB seven, eight years ago, and I did it for a while, a bunch of years. And the people that I went through UCB with now are like on TV. They're executives, they're in the writer's room. So don't ignore the people that you're hanging out with right now and make them your crew. Make them your cast so that you can grow together. Like, what did Judd Apatow do back in the day? Correct, you know, literally. What is Seth Rogan doing? What is Paul Feig doing? And so I think it's really cool to like continue to bring your squad along for the journey. Like who's not only cool? It's also just like, I, you know, it's like, don't forget the little people of it all.

You know, like I definitely, my own, I have a lot of feelings around acquaintances who have mine, and then all of a sudden they hit a moment and then they forgot everybody. Um, and it's like you only got to where you were because of all of us. Also, because like we were also in it with you. We knew you. Like, it's not like we don't have any idea of who you are, and just because now there's like a status social thing into the mix, like you forget, like the I don't know, I believe in karma in that way of like, you know, treat people kindly, mostly because just be a good person, but also like in the depths of it all, like you don't really know who anybody becomes or who what power they have.

[18:38] Sujata Day: You know, I think about this one time right after undergrad. This is like I don't even know how many years ago at this point. Um, I was working my thrival job at the time, I was selling Broadway merchandise at Broadway shows right out of undergrad. I know that's cool. Was it? It was I could I could go on so fun! I kind of love that. It was a time, it was a real time. Yeah, uh, I was young, I was like, I was in the world, it was, you know, a good job at the time for me. And I met some really wonderful people, all of whom pretty much were like actors also, and this was their thrival job, and some of whom are like really like doing very, very well. And I remember my boss at the time had was gonna be directing a fringe show, and he needed a stage manager, and one person from my undergrad had applied for the stage management position, and this person was not a kind person in undergrad at all and I did not like them at all.

And I I'd like to say that I get along with most people and I can understand that people are complicated and sometimes we don't know everything about them and try not to judge people for how they are but this person was consistently not a nice person for many, many people.

[19:45] Sujata Day: And they asked me like what is your thoughts and I had this moment before I even answered I was like oh my God like I am being put in this position where I could actually get this girl or cost this girl a job. And it was a really weird thing where I never I didn't have a real relationship with her other than because I did not because she treated everybody so terribly I didn't want that. And in this moment I was like hey I really gotta be honest like I wouldn't recommend her. I don't think she's a nice person. I don't think she's kind. However, my friend over here who is also a stage manager is and I think you should actually interview them and then they got the job instead. And it was this really weird thing which is A I never thought I'd be in that position because none of this had anything to do with me.

Nor did I ever think that I would have any sort of say about this you know like we can go back and forth about like was that right should you have a blah blah blah blah but like ultimately I got my friend a job. So that is you know you're looking out for your people but there is something to be said about like you never know who anybody is and who anybody like these rooms are small and if you are not a nice person like people know that. People will remember that. Ultimately they'll remember how you made them feel you know I'd rather work with somebody who is a really good person who maybe not is like the maybe not the most talented of them all than somebody who's super talented and is not going to treat the people on set or on stage with kindness and grace.

[21:00] Jennifer Apple: Um, because you remember how that feels, you know oh definitely. And you need to always be honest in a situation like that when you were asked, um, which I will never generally put my opinion in an email or text, but I'll be like, call me. Yeah, and I'll and I'll tell you. Um but yeah, so I I think it it's just like a good human thing to do to just be kind to people.

[21:27] Sujata Day: Yeah, and bring your people along.

[21:29] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. I love that. Hi, actor friends, talking to you. If finding the perfect monologue has you feeling stuck, I've got just the thing. I put together a free monologue selection toolkit just for you. It's packed with resources, free and paid options, plus tips for choosing, editing, and customizing pieces to showcase you. Head over to jenniferapple.net slash freebie and stop avoiding the auditions that ask for a monologue or waiting for the perfect piece to simply fall into your lap. Dive into this free toolkit that I set up just for you that'll set you up to feel agency over your process and artistry. That's jenniferapple.net slash freebie and get started on finding your next go-to monologue.

[22:13] Jennifer Apple: So flash forward now, you are creating, writing, directing, producing, acting in your own work. Um, how has that been for you when you are in these meetings in terms of the way in which you are showing up, the way in which people are approaching you or perceiving you now that you do all of these things?

[22:34] Sujata Day: Yeah, it it it all depends because sometimes I am just asked to like, hey, here's a book that we optioned and we want you to write the pitch for it, and you're not gonna be really involved in a directorial or uh an actor sense. And I'm like, cool, like let me read the book. Let me see if it's like an interesting story that I wanna bring to life. And so then that's just when I put my writer hat on. Sorry. Yeah. So I I'm also sent feature films to see if I wanna just direct something. And that's really fun too, because then I can take a look at, you know, what is being first of all, what is being considered out there, what is being picked up, what production companies are noticing, what buyers are noticing. And so it's just great for me to even just read it, even if I don't necessarily want to direct. With directing, I will say I am way more pickier than if I am acting in something.

[23:40] Sujata Day: Because I do feel that directing is way more of a time commitment and acting, you can just kind of say yes to the job and you go and you do the job, and then you come home and you have forgotten completely about the project until it comes out, or maybe it never comes out, you know. So but with directing, you are like in the trenches with pre-production, with um getting your crew together, with getting your cast together, shooting, and then post-production, and then the whole, you know, festival run with it, or you know, the wherever it ends up streaming or goes out to theaters. So that's a big huge commitment. So I'm I'm a bit pickier with the things that I agree to direct. And generally the script has to be really great as I'm you know, I'm a writer.

So if I get a script and I see something there, uh I will ask if I can, you know, work with the writer to, you know, give notes or help them co-write it. Um but yeah, it the script has to really be in a great place for me to say yes to directing. Whereas with acting, I'm just like, sure, I'll do it. I don't care.

[24:57] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. I'm sure you have some guardrails that you're like, oh no, I don't know. I'll be like, you know, I'll I'll do it. And if if I don't feel like something's right in the dialogue, I'll just improvise, you know.

[25:09] Sujata Day: I love it. I love it. Well, for people who are who are, you know, maybe in their earlier process of, you know, they or let's say we'll dial it back even a little bit more of like let's say people have pieces that they've written, right? They have pieces that whether it's a pilot, a feature, a short, uh, what have you, or maybe it's it's a treatment and it hasn't been, you know, or an outline. Where and they we're gonna make it even they don't live in LA or New York just yet, they are planning on moving. Um, what are some things that they could be considering while they are wanting to move their pieces to the next step?

[25:47] Sujata Day: Whatever you're trying to pitch or sell, make it super low budget and try to shoot it yourself as much as you can. Um, I think in your first foray into writing, maybe don't go into some like action thriller that has a bunch of explosions and cars jumping off bridges and um stuff like that. Unless you can make it like really cool with like with like stop motion animation or something. I don't know, that's just an idea. But uh I would say if you look at the stuff that's happening right now in the industry, uh Shane Gillis went out and he shot uh I don't know if it was just the pilot or the full first season of Tires, and he had it up on YouTube before Netflix acquired it, and then Netflix is making season two of that show.

Mark Duplass, obviously DIY filmmaker, but I he independently produced recently uh a series that was on the Netflix top 10 for a while, and so that was another acquisition. Um, so I would just say people are having a lot of success with um just making a thing, making the episodes, maybe even making a short and treating it as either a pilot presentation for a bigger idea.

[27:21] Sujata Day: I've had success with my short Cowboy and Indian that anyone can watch on Vimeo. I've sold it twice to two different studios to be made into a series, and guess what? That series never came out, but the payments that I received for those options went into funding Definition Please.

[27:46] Jennifer Apple: Amazing.

[27:47] Sujata Day: And so then now let's take it to the next step. You are in LA or have been in LA or New York for a moment, you have these pieces. Let's say you're like, okay, I want to make these on my own. What would you recommend? Are some things that people would do to kind of begin that process?

[28:02] Sujata Day: Get a great producer. So if you don't know how to line produce, if you don't know how to make a budget, if you don't know how to make a schedule, you need to hire someone to do that, you need to pay them really good money. And that's step number one. Because I'm assuming that you already have the scripts written, they're done. And now, you know, I'm not a line producer, so that's why I am always working with a great producing partner to bring that side to the project. And I think that's very important.

[28:43] Sujata Day: So once you have that, that's when you start asking friends or start asking people that you've worked with already about a DP. Also, I'm assuming that you're also directing this. Cool. Are we? Yeah, let's assume that. Let's assume okay, let's assume that. So you're also directing this. So having a great experienced DP for someone who maybe hasn't shot a bunch of stuff before is really, really important. Someone that you trust.

[29:12] Sujata Day: Something that I did with Definition Please is with Brooks. I had worked with him on an indie feature a year before shooting Definition Please, blowing up right now, and we shot that movie in 10 days. So I knew that he was good and he can work fast, which is exactly what we need, and that we get along really well. So I got him on board, and then Brooks and I had a bunch of movie dates to watch different movies, like Duplass Brothers movies, Wong Kar Wai, eighth grade, all these movies that we were like watching together, and I would be like, that's a shot that I want in the film. Or like that's a cool camera movement. And so he was really aware of what I wanted, and this was very important because I'm pretty much in every scene of the movie. And because we only had an 11-day shoot, I had to make sure that my DP and I had great communication because I wasn't looking at any footage or dailies or anything. We didn't have time for that.

[30:21] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[30:22] Sujata Day: So I think that's the second piece that you got to get in place. So you got your producer, you got your DP, and then you could like ask your actor friends to be in it. Like, I didn't have any auditions. I was just like, oh, this person's good, this person's good, this person's good. I don't need to see them audition. I know that they can pull it off. So then I just started texting my friends, and most of them said yes.

[30:52] Jennifer Apple: I love it.

[30:53] Sujata Day: And then, and then your producer helps you get the rest of the crew together, and so that's really important. Obviously, every single piece is so important: lighting, sound, set design, costumes, hair and makeup. So you get all that set up, and then you're ready to go shoot your movie.

[31:18] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Did you do a round of fundraising for it or did you personally invest?

[31:23] Sujata Day: So I personally invested. So I mentioned before that my short Cowboy and Indian has sold twice. The first time it sold, it was to Super Deluxe, which is now a defunct company, and it was shut down by the Time Warner merger. And when the merger happened, I was at Sundance for the first time because I had just done the Sundance episodic lab. So I decided to go to the festival, and then they made me a Sundance influencer where I do people on the red carpet and stuff. It was great. It was like the greatest first time at Sundance experience.

[32:02] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah.

[32:03] Sujata Day: Because I was talking to all the directors and stuff, and it was really awesome.

[32:06] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, talk about a networking event. Like I feel like you've probably networked hard without even needing to do it strategically.

[32:12] Sujata Day: Wow, yeah. It was really cool. It was really awesome. And so I got this email saying, hey, Time Warner is giving you your show back, your short slash your show back along with a check for $90,000. And I was like, this is where you need to have good lawyers. Like that's really important. So I was like, cool. I don't know getting this money. So I put that $90,000 into Definition Please. I mean, like I didn't need any of that money, I didn't know it was coming my way.

[32:45] Jennifer Apple: Had you not gotten that money, what would you have done to make Definition Please?

[32:50] Sujata Day: I would have made it for like five dollars.

[32:53] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[32:54] Sujata Day: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was just like, it was at Sundance where I was like, I'm making this movie this summer. Get on board this moving train or don't talk to me.

[33:04] Jennifer Apple: Yes.

[33:05] Sujata Day: So I love the audacity in it. Yeah, you're like, this isn't my issue, this is your issue. You're either who's crazy because that email came literally hours after I said that aloud.

[33:16] Jennifer Apple: Wow.

[33:17] Sujata Day: Yeah. So I do believe the more I live, the more I do believe energetically that there's like something happening because the amount of stories within my own life and other people's lives, they're like, this is totally a tangent, but not really. I watch the show Alone. Do you ever watch Alone on Netflix?

[33:30] Jennifer Apple: I mean, now it's on Netflix.

[33:32] Sujata Day: It's a survivalist show.

[33:34] Jennifer Apple: Is it a reality show?

[33:36] Sujata Day: I guess it's literally people who are survivalists who just are plopped in a plot of land in the middle of nowhere and they're supposed to outlast one another, but there's no film crew. It's just them, and they have to film themselves as they're building shelters and procuring food, hopefully, and trying to weather the storms. But there's gonna, I'm just gonna say I don't believe that there's no film crew. I feel like there's a behind-the-scenes film crew telling them what to take. I don't believe any reality show.

[34:10] Jennifer Apple: I agree.

[34:11] Sujata Day: I also because these people are like living off the grid in their real lives, and I'm like, they probably have never really had a really good cell phone, let alone like deciding to put a tripod up. Like, how do they actually know? I do know that they go through training for a week, like for a week of their camera stuff before they go out there. But keep going.

[34:25] Sujata Day: But I hear you. There's not other people, but it's possible that they pre-plant cameras. I don't know. But anyway, this one, I would just say the production is not gonna let people die on their watch.

[34:36] Jennifer Apple: A thousand percent.

[34:37] Sujata Day: A thousand percent. They do have little calling things that they could, you know. The point of the story is that there's this one guy who truly like gave up. He was like, I can't procure food, I'm losing my mind, I'm starving, I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm wet, nothing's working. I'm like truly like you watch him on his little tripod, like he actually has tapped out. And while behind him, he had set up a fishing rod that he made out of a stick and whatever string he was able to bring with him. And the fishing rod starts to like slowly kind of move. And in the literal moment that this man was giving up and saying, I am tapping out, here is this thing on my hand that I'm calling producers to come, you know, excavate me.

This little fishing rod starts to move, and lo and behold, there is a fish at the end of his rod. Truly, like this man was, this is not, he's not an actor. I can say that with a thousand percent confidence, like not an actor. And the universe was like, actually, your moment isn't yet. This little fish is gonna be here just to give you like a little bit more of a hope. And the amount of times that versions of that have happened in mine and other friends' lives, it's very real. That like the moment that you decide the thing, the universe can provide because there's space for it. And that maybe sounds more woo-woo. If anybody's been listening to these episodes this whole time, I've maybe progressed my woo-woo-ness over time.

I was like, I'm not a woo-woo. And I'm like, there's a fishing rod that's moving. But like, it's real. If you set that in motion and you were like, this is what's happening, get on the train or get off the train. I don't care what you do, the train's moving. People respond to that because there's definitive movement happening, and people like that because otherwise it's just nebulous, whatever, and what are we all doing?

[36:19] Jennifer Apple: You know, yeah, yeah.

[36:20] Sujata Day: And I felt like once I had that $90,000 in the Definition Please bank account, it was easier to raise the rest of the money because investors knew that I had skin in the game, that I was gonna be losing my own money if this didn't work out. And yeah, and then I raised the rest of the money and we shot it June of 2019.

[36:44] Jennifer Apple: Amazing.

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[38:03] Jennifer Apple: How do you pitch? I know we're bouncing around here, but because you do so many things and you've done it so many different ways, how have you pitched in the past, or how do you pitch now? Again, is it like you cold emailing these people being like, I have this project, it's one all these things, you should whatever, or I am an award-winning person, talk to me, I have this new thing? Or is it now people are reaching out to your team and you're taking meetings, or is it you don't even have things written and you just have the idea and then they hire you to write the thing? Like where are we at in terms of that?

[38:32] Sujata Day: You know what? It's all different. Because a lot of my original ideas, I feel like I have just written the script. Um, because I'm like, I have this idea, it's nobody's but mine, so I'm just gonna write it so that people can, you know, see exactly what it is. And generally, that is what you have to do with an original idea. It's pretty hard to just sell an original idea on a log line or, you know, even like a short paragraph, unless you have Matt Damon and Liam Neeson attached to star in your tiny idea, right?

[39:09] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[39:10] Sujata Day: So, I would definitely say if you have an original idea, just write the script. Just go ahead and do it. Um, with other stuff, you know, I get I have little ideas where it's just a log line, and I've pitched it to people, and they're like, all right, well, I'm gonna take this to the studio. And I was like, you don't need anything else? That feels crazy. And they're like, no, no, no, I get it. It's this meets that, and here's the log line, and we're just gonna like see what happens. And I'm like, great. So that's the smallest thing that I've ever given, but I don't recommend that to anyone just breaking into the industry right now.

[39:45] Sujata Day: Um, generally what I do when I talked about those couple feature films that I wrote that are based on treatments, I do write a full fleshed out treatment that could be anywhere from eight to 16 pages.

[40:02] Jennifer Apple: Um, what are you putting in your treatment for you?

[40:05] Sujata Day: So first is the first section is why, why me? Like, why do I need to write this? Why does it need to be out there? Second is log line, third is, uh, the world, you know, what's the world, what's the tone? Um, visuals in yours also, like you have, you're full of visual representations, or is it mostly purple? That's interesting because if you're only if you're an executive and only looking at me as a writer, I don't tend to put a lot of visuals. If you're looking at me as a writer-director, then I will make a separate deck.

[40:47] Sujata Day: Okay. Um and that's what I just I finished up a horror comedy, so I made a deck for that. Um it's like a 20-page just purely visual deck. Um, I don't tend to put visuals into a writing pitch or writing treatment. Okay. So after the world, then world then characters. You go straight into the characters. Um, who do we care about? Why do we care about them? What are their wants? What are their desires? What are their relationships with the other characters? And then you go into the synopsis. So for TV, it's uh give me the sum summarize the pilot for a feature, summarize the entire feature and tell us the ending too. Don't be like, and then what happens? You'll have to read to find out. I'm like, I'm not gonna read it, just tell me what happens.

[41:45] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, you're like, I'm the one who's paying you to like have the whole thing, not just 75% of it. Please tell me what I'm saying.

[41:51] Sujata Day: Yeah, and then that's that's pretty much it, and you can have kind of like a wrap-up at the end, but it's it's not really necessary. Um, if you in the TV show, if you want to say, Hey, this is what's gonna kind of happen in season one, very broad strokes, you can do that. You can also, I tend to with TV, I tend to know what's happening in the season one finale, and I also love to say what's happening in the series finale, so that you wrap up the entire arc of the lead characters, and this doesn't have to be like a ton of work either.

[42:32] Sujata Day: Like it's when you say that for yourself, what does that mean? A ton of work with relative, I think for many. I'll just be like, hey, in the series series finale, she defeats the villain, you know? She like sticks up for herself finally, and she defeats the big bad, you know, like that's it. They get together, they get together, the two characters.

[42:56] Jennifer Apple: Got it.

[42:57] Sujata Day: Yeah, you're not you're not fully spelling it out.

[42:59] Jennifer Apple: You're kind of just not fully spelling it out.

[43:01] Sujata Day: Because then at the end of the day, and which I've known noticed for TV especially, is that executives love to get in there and collaborate with you and make sure that they're providing notes and ideas and they want to be creative too. So that's why you only want to provide broad strokes so that they can also be like, oh yeah, actually, like maybe she doesn't get together with that person, maybe she gets together with this other person.

[43:28] Jennifer Apple: And you're like, yeah, totally.

[43:30] Sujata Day: Oh my god, that's such a great idea. That's what I yeah, I somehow missed that when I was thinking through it, and now it's thank you for illuminating.

[43:39] Sujata Day: If you make them feel involved, they can get uh personally excited about the project too.

[43:45] Jennifer Apple: I love that. For you, what is your favorite part of the entire process? Like, start like let's say we're again putting you in like all of these hats from inception to completion. Where do you at the moment, like where are you finding the most joy and why?

[44:02] Sujata Day: Oh my gosh. I love different bits of each of the each of the parts. Like with the writing, I love just coming up with the world. I love I write a lot of comedies. And um when the real world around us is falling apart, I kind of love writing my comedies because I'll go back and I'll read something that I wrote maybe a couple months ago and I'll laugh and I'll be like, this is funny. Like this is really I'll love the same joke, like over and over. I'm like, who wrote that joke? Like that's good.

[44:42] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[44:43] Sujata Day: And it holds up, it holds up despite everything. I love it.

[44:47] Sujata Day: It holds up. And and then with directing, I really love just being in charge of everything. You know, being in charge of everything, but also in a way that I have hired all the right people for their jobs, and I trust them to do their jobs well. So I'm not micromanaging anyone. Um so that's that's one thing that I love about directing.

[45:09] Sujata Day: And then with acting, I mean, we all we all love to act. Acting is so fun, you can just lose yourself in a role. You can surprise yourself and the people that you're working with with different moments that you didn't know what happened. And um, so that acting is always the most magical for me.

[45:30] Sujata Day: Um because I I feel like it's it just kind of happens out of nowhere, and it's it's really cool and fun.

[45:37] Sujata Day: And um, producing, I don't like producing.

[45:42] Sujata Day: Yeah, I uh I'm not into it. I don't really want to do it anymore unless I can be just like a vanity EP and and I don't have to do any work, you know. Like it's it's not I obviously did a lot of producing for definition please and I was also the the publicist, the film festival liaison, the um I don't know, I had like so many different jobs for that film and and it was a lot, a lot of work.

[46:12] Jennifer Apple: So I will tend to in the future leave the producing to the professionals.

[46:20] Sujata Day: I hear you. I hear you with a capital H. Um it's funny because I feel like the amount of times in my life that people have been like, you I mean, granted, like I do, I guess produce like this podcast, you know, like I I do produce things and I don't think about it as producing because I'm not doing other elements that I in my brain associate with producing.

[46:41] Jennifer Apple: But the amount of times that people have been like, but Jen, you're like you're a really innate producer, like you know people, you you like to organize things.

[46:50] Sujata Day: I was like, Yeah, but I'd rather die than see a spreadsheet.

[46:53] Jennifer Apple: Like I and if I don't ever want to look at a spreadsheet ever, how am I supposed to be or like I I want to connect you both, I do, but I don't want to be the one who's like facilitating everything that comes before, after during in the middle of it.

[47:04] Sujata Day: Like I don't, I just want you both to know each other and like figure it out. And if that's producing, fine. But if we're talking about the weeds of it all, I I'd rather not.

[47:12] Sujata Day: I really yeah, but the love-hate relationship of it, you know, it's it's interesting though, because as somebody who is also a writer, a multi-hyphenate who, you know, I I have my own projects also. It's like at some point, if you are to try to make things happen, sometimes you do have to wear these hats in order to get them to happen and hopefully come the next time.

[47:30] Sujata Day: And then you could maybe have other folks who could step in and like you were saying, you did it for definition, please, and now you're like, I'd rather really give it to somebody else.

[47:38] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[47:39] Sujata Day: I mean, if you are shooting your own project, you are just gonna have to stop the bullet, yeah, and produce.

[47:45] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I know, I know.

[47:46] Sujata Day: And it's a tough one because sometimes you have to wear these hats that yeah, that's not why you are doing the thing. And unfortunately, that goes with the territory until it hopefully doesn't, and you can change gears the next time you do it, which is wonderful.

[48:00] Jennifer Apple: Um, as you were also first starting out, were there any sorts of books or even now as you're in it and you know, refining your skill set and honing in on the certain things. Are there certain, you know, uh resources or podcasts or you know, movies that you're like, these are the guideposts to my creativity that like truly everyone really should follow, listen once multiple times, you know, clock as they go.

[48:27] Sujata Day: I have mentioned this on this podcast earlier, but Thomas Lennon's book, How to Write Movies for Fun and Profit is is a great resource in terms of taking the writing to the next level. I also uh look at Save the Cat when I'm writing out outlines. I think that's a really good way to you know figure out beats and stuff, and obviously, like as your script progresses and changes, it might like leave those save the cat beats a little bit, but that's fine.

[49:00] Sujata Day: It's just like a good place to start, yeah, for me. Um, something else that I love to do that's super inspirational is watch famous directors that are very successful today, watch their first movies.

[49:17] Sujata Day: And obviously, I'm not talking about Eraserhead, which is like an amazing first movie that is a genius first movie. But but I'm talking about like go look at like Bong Jun Ho's first movie, and you'll be like, you know, I can do that. Like maybe I can't do Parasite right now, but I can do this first one.

[49:38] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[49:39] Sujata Day: Um, go look at the Cohen Brothers first movie. You're kind of like, this is like a very small character-driven movie. You can do that. And so that that gives you hope because you're like, all these directors did not start out to be these the quented Tarantino and the, you know.

[49:59] Sujata Day: Um, and so it's it's really exciting to go watch their first movies and be like, okay, they started here. So I'm gonna just like, you know, take a step back in my script and also also make it small and also make it doable and and put my own like flourish into it the way that these amazing filmmakers did.

[50:20] Jennifer Apple: And so that's that's a huge inspiration for me to just like keep moving forward.

[50:25] Sujata Day: I love that. I think that's a very tangible but also interesting framing because arguably we know the people now rather than their initial, and it's just like, no, no, where do they start?

[50:36] Jennifer Apple: Um, I think that's a really helpful reframing of that for yourself as you are moving into this next season of at least for 2025, potentially not writing at all.

[50:50] Sujata Day: Um, we'll see how that goes for you while you're dancing.

[50:53] Jennifer Apple: It's not going well.

[50:54] Sujata Day: Yeah, I'll tell you that much.

[50:56] Sujata Day: It's not going well. Look, if you're good at something, people are gonna want it from you. And you know, if you have a really creative mind, I don't think it's it's kind of hard to turn that part of yourself off.

[51:06] Jennifer Apple: But yeah, I'm not here to judge you either way. If it happens, if it doesn't, the wind will take you.

[51:11] Sujata Day: But no matter whether it is that hat that you end up putting on or not, um, in this next season of your journey, what are some of the things that you are keeping in mind for yourself in this like next chapter as you like?

[51:25] Sujata Day: I don't want to say like level up because what does that even mean? But like as you go into this next season.

[51:30] Sujata Day: I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing, to be fair. I'm just gonna, you know, keep being kind, keep, you know, prioritizing my rest, my friends, uh, travel.

[51:45] Sujata Day: I'm excited to travel a little more this year. Um I'm doing a play reading coming up in Denver that I'm really excited about. And I've never done an actor's equity thing. So I'm just like, oh.

[52:00] Jennifer Apple: Welcome to the dark side.

[52:02] Sujata Day: Next stop, Broadway.

[52:05] Jennifer Apple: Listen, they are bringing out LA folks in droves to do these shows now. There were enough of us in New York, but they are like, we're coming.

[52:13] Sujata Day: We are coming for the jobs.

[52:15] Jennifer Apple: So I'm sure we'll see you out here soon.

[52:17] Sujata Day: Awesome. I would love it. I mean, yeah, so I'm just really excited to kind of dip my toes into some new areas. Like I said, I started writing a book and maybe, you know, continue to write that slowly and not, you know, stress myself out over it.

[52:32] Sujata Day: Um, so yeah, I'm just excited to kind of keep the keep the energy neutral and keep it going.

[52:39] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Um, for anybody who wants to work with you, who wants to watch your stuff who wants to reach out who wants to like ask further questions or whatever what within your boundaries is the best way for people to find you and reach out.

[52:54] Sujata Day: The best way is through my website it's www.sujatay.com and you can fill out the form and um and then it'll go straight to my team and we'll take a look.

[53:08] Jennifer Apple: Amazing thank you so much for being here and for this conversation.

[53:11] Sujata Day: Yeah this was so great Jen thank you so much.

[53:14] Jennifer Apple: That's it for today's episode I hope you walk away with some fresh insights feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough every step forward counts you've got this and we're here cheering you on every step of the way if you found today's episode helpful don't forget to hit subscribe so you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week and if something today really resonated with you please leave us a review.

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[54:01] Jennifer Apple: As always thank you for being here thank you for listening and thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating keep thriving stay empowered I'm Jennifer Apple until next time.