This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jennifer Apple: Hello.

[0:01] Jennifer Apple: Welcome to the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast.

[0:04] Jennifer Apple: I'm your host, Jennifer Apple, a multi-hyphenate actor, educator, acting coach, writer, dog mom, and founder of this vibrant community that champions artists as they carve out their own unique paths in this wild industry.

[0:17] Jennifer Apple: Whether you're just starting out, in the thick of it, or seeking a bit of artistic fuel to expand your toolbox, you're in the right place.

[0:24] Jennifer Apple: In this space, we'll have honest conversations, share actionable strategies, tips, and resources, and delve into the messy yet beautiful journey of living a sustainable creative life.

[0:34] Jennifer Apple: We unmask the reality of life as an artist, from navigating career highs and lows to nurturing your full human well-being.

[0:42] Jennifer Apple: I chat with women and non-binary guests who share their personal stories, helpful learnings, and hearts to help you unlock your artistic potential, expand your knowledge, and show up fully and fearlessly in your artistry and daily life.

[0:55] Jennifer Apple: Before we dive into this week's conversation, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode.

[1:01] Jennifer Apple: If today's chat resonates with you, please leave us a review.

[1:04] Jennifer Apple: It helps us reach even more incredible artists just like you.

[1:07] Jennifer Apple: And hey, feel free to spread the love.

[1:09] Jennifer Apple: Share this podcast with a friend or post it on your socials, making sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can chat with you there.

[1:18] Jennifer Apple: All right, grab a cup of something cozy, settle in, and let's get to it.

[1:22] Jennifer Apple: How can artists and creatives enhance their online presence, visibility, and income using search engine optimization, or better known as SEO?

[1:31] Jennifer Apple: In this episode, I sit down with Tonya Lawson, a classically trained clarinetist and SEO specialist, to break down exactly how folks can use search engine optimization to grow their online presence and monetize their work.

[1:43] Jennifer Apple: Tonya breaks down the basic concepts of SEO, offers practical advice on optimizing websites and social media, and explains how creatives can use these tools to attract new clients, gain exposure, and monetize their online platforms.

[1:55] Jennifer Apple: Whether you're a performer wanting more eyes on your work, a coach or teacher looking to build clientele, or a multi-hyphenate creative aiming to make your online presence actually work for you, this episode is packed with tactical tools, creative hacks, and empowering mindset shifts to help you make SEO your friend.

[2:11] Jennifer Apple: Enjoy.

[2:12] Jennifer Apple: Tonya Lawson, welcome to the space.

[2:14] Tonya Lawson: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[2:17] Jennifer Apple: For anybody who does not know you, who are you today?

[2:20] Tonya Lawson: Okay, well, I am a musician, blogger, passive income, and SEO specialist, and I live in the Nashville, Tennessee area.

[2:29] Tonya Lawson: I'm a musician by trade, a classically trained clarinetist.

[2:33] Tonya Lawson: And I, so it's a fun story of how I got into SEO.

[2:37] Jennifer Apple: I would love to hear that journey so that we can dive directly into it.

[2:41] Jennifer Apple: Because I know it's one of those things that for myself, I never really thought about, and frankly, I don't, but when I've had to build my own website as, you know, a multi-hyphenate creative over the past couple of years, it's fascinating to me now to have seen in the searches of things like what populates and how my name shows up and what from my name shows up and the background behind all of that.

[3:04] Jennifer Apple: So I cannot wait to get and dive into it.

[3:06] Jennifer Apple: So for you, how did you go on your SEO becoming journey?

[3:11] Tonya Lawson: Well, I finished my doctorate in clarinet back in 2005 and fully intended to be a professor.

[3:19] Tonya Lawson: I love teaching. Teaching is my gift, it's my talent.

[3:25] Tonya Lawson: So I graduated. There were 50 university clarinet positions open in the US, and I applied for all of them.

[3:32] Tonya Lawson: I made the final two in two positions, and in both instances, they went with the candidate who had experience, which I completely understand.

[3:42] Tonya Lawson: Then I was like, okay, I'm gonna build a music studio.

[3:45] Tonya Lawson: It's what I did in college. It's what I did in graduate school.

[3:48] Tonya Lawson: I know how to make money doing this.

[3:49] Tonya Lawson: So I built a private music studio.

[3:52] Tonya Lawson: It was just meant to be temporary.

[3:54] Tonya Lawson: The next year there were only five positions open in the entire United States.

[3:59] Tonya Lawson: I applied for all five, once again made the final two.

[4:03] Tonya Lawson: And once again, they went with a candidate who had far more experience than me.

[4:09] Tonya Lawson: So I was like, okay, I'm gonna double down and go all in on my studio.

[4:13] Tonya Lawson: Then the third year, I applied for a few jobs, and I actually was offered one, but it was a temporary position.

[4:19] Tonya Lawson: So I had to make a decision.

[4:21] Tonya Lawson: Do I move across the country for a temporary position or do I stay here where I have friends and family and I'm making a pretty good living teaching music lessons?

[4:31] Tonya Lawson: So I opted to turn that job down.

[4:34] Tonya Lawson: I do still teach.

[4:35] Tonya Lawson: I did get a full-time job at a university.

[4:38] Tonya Lawson: Wasn't my cup of tea, actually.

[4:40] Tonya Lawson: I prefer working for myself, so I do still teach online part-time.

[4:45] Tonya Lawson: But I live in one of two states that I know of.

[4:48] Tonya Lawson: They're the only two states I've lived in, Tennessee and Texas, where you can actually go into the schools and pull students out of their band class to teach music lessons or voice lessons or whatnot.

[4:59] Tonya Lawson: And it helped me build a booming studio.

[4:59] Tonya Lawson: At its highest, my studio was in the upper 60s to 70 students a week.

[5:08] Tonya Lawson: And that was too much.

[5:10] Tonya Lawson: I teach less than that on purpose now, but it was great.

[5:15] Tonya Lawson: And then the county I live in decided they may consider pulling that program from the schools.

[5:22] Tonya Lawson: And I panicked.

[5:23] Tonya Lawson: All of my income came from that source.

[5:26] Tonya Lawson: And it hit me, I am keeping all my eggs in one basket.

[5:30] Tonya Lawson: And this is just not a good plan.

[5:32] Tonya Lawson: I mean, yeah, I could freelance gig and stuff, but this is the Nashville area.

[5:37] Tonya Lawson: Musicians are a dime a dozen out here.

[5:39] Tonya Lawson: So just getting your foot in the door is hard enough on that.

[5:42] Tonya Lawson: And it's not what I wanted to do.

[5:44] Tonya Lawson: So luckily that never happened and the program stayed the same.

[5:49] Tonya Lawson: But in my panic, I knew I had a website and I knew it should be making money.

[5:49] Tonya Lawson: I knew it should be making money, but I couldn't figure out how.

[5:58] Tonya Lawson: So I took my first SEO course.

[6:00] Tonya Lawson: And of course, it was taught by, you know, a bunch of bros who told me that my website was never gonna make money and that I needed to start a niche website.

[6:08] Tonya Lawson: So that's what I did.

[6:09] Tonya Lawson: I started my coffee website.

[6:11] Tonya Lawson: I did exactly what they told me to do, and they were right, it started making money, but I was like, this can't be it.

[6:18] Tonya Lawson: I don't want to just, you know, pedal coffee products, you know, I don't want to do all these reviews and stuff.

[6:24] Tonya Lawson: And I think this is gonna pass.

[6:27] Tonya Lawson: I don't know that this is gonna be long-term stable.

[6:30] Tonya Lawson: So I started tweaking what I learned and started applying it to my website as a musician.

[6:35] Tonya Lawson: And it took some creativity and some tweaking, but I finally figured out the formula to make SEO work on my website, and all of a sudden, my website's now making money.

[6:46] Tonya Lawson: Students are finding me through my website.

[6:50] Tonya Lawson: Courses that I have put together are selling on my website, and I'm getting some affiliate income on my website, and I'm like, you know, this is pretty good.

[7:01] Tonya Lawson: Well, COVID hits, and everything shuts down, and I lucked out.

[7:08] Tonya Lawson: I was already very tech savvy from having the websites and whatnot.

[7:12] Tonya Lawson: Transitioning my lessons online was not a problem at all.

[7:16] Tonya Lawson: And I actually picked up more students because people needed stuff for their kids to do.

[7:22] Tonya Lawson: Yeah.

[7:23] Tonya Lawson: So during that time, I was actually making more money.

[7:26] Tonya Lawson: And I had extra time because I wasn't driving to the schools all the time.

[7:30] Tonya Lawson: So what did I do?

[7:31] Tonya Lawson: I started a third website, my gardening website.

[7:34] Tonya Lawson: And I decided I didn't want to do it in the same fashion that I learned originally with a coffee website.

[7:41] Tonya Lawson: Even though I knew it was a proven system, I knew it made money, I liked better what I was doing with my music website, which wasn't trying to push a lot of products off on people.

[7:52] Tonya Lawson: I mean, yeah, affiliate sales are great, but I really wanted to help people.

[7:57] Tonya Lawson: I wanted to answer questions.

[7:58] Tonya Lawson: Gardening, like music, is a passion of mine.

[8:01] Tonya Lawson: I wanted to help.

[8:02] Tonya Lawson: Well, enter all the Google updates, and my coffee website is out there in the Google graveyard somewhere.

[8:09] Tonya Lawson: But my musician website and my gardening website, which were done with a more creative SEO practice, are still performing just fine.

[8:18] Jennifer Apple: Wow. Thank you for sharing all of that.

[8:21] Jennifer Apple: For anybody who does not know what SEO is, can we break that down?

[8:27] Tonya Lawson: SEO stands for search engine optimization, and in just plain old ordinary English, it's what you do on and off your website to help Google find it and to help people find it when they do a Google search.

[8:40] Tonya Lawson: If it is me and I have my name, and let's say you want to search me, you do not know anything about me other than my name.

[8:48] Tonya Lawson: You type my name into Google.

[8:50] Tonya Lawson: What on the back end, when you said that you like took a class and you learned about SEO?

[8:54] Tonya Lawson: What on the back end are you learning to make sure that my name, Jennifer Apple, would essentially be optimized in a way that the first page ideally or so is just like stuff exclusively about me?

[9:08] Tonya Lawson: Well, if we're searching specifically for your name, then one, you want to make sure that your name appears obviously throughout your website.

[9:16] Tonya Lawson: You also want to make sure every image of you on your website is optimized with alternative text along with every image of you on social media or anybody else's website, that that alternative text will have your name in it as well.

[9:31] Tonya Lawson: You want to make sure your name is in the URL slug or in the web address.

[9:35] Tonya Lawson: You want to make sure your name is in the meta description.

[9:38] Tonya Lawson: All of those things will help.

[9:41] Tonya Lawson: But my question for you is how many people are out there searching for your name?

[9:45] Jennifer Apple: Well, I guess that was gonna be my next thing, right?

[9:47] Jennifer Apple: So, like if we're breaking down what SEO is, what we're saying is that like in an ideal world, everything on my back end when things are uploaded into the universe of the ether world has a label that is going to somehow link back to me.

[10:04] Jennifer Apple: Is that what you're getting at?

[10:05] Tonya Lawson: Right? So it's like if I have an image and I title the image Jennifer Apple, that will help the SEO pick it up when people are searching for, say specifically my name.

[10:15] Jennifer Apple: I know I'm not answering your question yet.

[10:17] Tonya Lawson: No, no, no, that's okay.

[10:19] Tonya Lawson: But no, not quite.

[10:20] Tonya Lawson: With the images, it's not about the title.

[10:22] Tonya Lawson: The title's great.

[10:23] Tonya Lawson: Yes, put the title in there, but you want to add alternative text to that image.

[10:28] Tonya Lawson: So alternative text is text that goes within the code of the image.

[10:32] Tonya Lawson: And don't panic, you don't have to know how to code to do this.

[10:35] Tonya Lawson: But that goes in the code of the image.

[10:38] Tonya Lawson: And it's designed to help screen readers that are used by people who are visually impaired better understand what the image is about.

[10:47] Tonya Lawson: So for a picture, say there's a picture of you on the Empire State Building.

[10:51] Tonya Lawson: It would be podcaster or actor Jennifer Apple standing on the Empire State Building.

[10:58] Tonya Lawson: You're gonna put that actually in the code of the picture.

[11:02] Tonya Lawson: And depending on what website platform you use, there are usually plenty of plugins or options to where you can type that alt text in and they do the coding for you.

[11:11] Jennifer Apple: And so that's just like a simple, hi, I have Squarespace.

[11:14] Jennifer Apple: Hey, Squarespace, where am I putting my alt code that isn't directly in the weird back end text bubble of coding that I need to somehow figure out how to manipulate myself and now I've ruined the entire website?

[11:25] Jennifer Apple: How can I optimize all of my images to have visuals attached to it so that anybody searching would be able to find these things?

[11:33] Tonya Lawson: Yes.

[11:34] Tonya Lawson: Wow.

[11:34] Tonya Lawson: Okay.

[11:35] Tonya Lawson: So those are images.

[11:36] Tonya Lawson: What about, um, you know, uh links that say you aren't the owner of, right?

[11:42] Tonya Lawson: So let's say I have appeared on other people's podcasts, or I had, I did an interview before, and you know, there's a newspaper article somewhere, or there was a review about a production that I've done that I don't have control over their back end, but the only thing that I'm seeing from a visual perspective is my name being dropped somewhere in said article blog post listing.

[12:06] Jennifer Apple: In that capacity, what how does SEO work?

[12:10] Tonya Lawson: Okay, great question.

[12:12] Tonya Lawson: So, first of all, in that capacity, if it's a podcast you've been on, chances are they're linking back to your website, correct?

[12:19] Jennifer Apple: Probably, hopefully.

[12:20] Tonya Lawson: So by linking back to your website, and if you say probably ask, ask them to link back to your website.

[12:27] Tonya Lawson: Um, they're probably not gonna say no.

[12:30] Tonya Lawson: If they're linking back to your website, all the SEO done on your website, which we call on-page SEO, is gonna help boost that link.

[12:40] Tonya Lawson: That link in turn is an example of what we call off-page SEO, where other websites are linking to your website.

[12:48] Tonya Lawson: That is gonna boost your authority in the eyes of Google and help you rank.

[12:53] Tonya Lawson: It is going to connect with Google, your name on that website with all the information on your website through that link, and it's gonna help that get boosted as well.

[13:04] Tonya Lawson: Now, let's say you mentioned a review, they did a review of a show you were in or something, a production.

[13:09] Tonya Lawson: Um, that may not have a link to your website.

[13:13] Jennifer Apple: Right.

[13:15] Tonya Lawson: You can always reach out to them and say, hey, I saw that you mentioned me in this, I totally appreciate it.

[13:23] Tonya Lawson: I feel so honored. Would you mind putting a link to my website in there? Like on their page or like a link to my name with like the like leading. Like, yeah, your name just link back. All they can say is no. But even if they say no, Google's algorithm has gotten so good now. If Google understands who you are and what you do, and your website, your information is on their radar, you have those backlinks from podcasts you do, et cetera, coming in there, they will start associating your name mentioned within the context of what you do with you.

[14:01] Tonya Lawson: Amazing. So this goes back to your question that I evaded, which is let's say somebody didn't know my name, but they were like, I met this girl, she has this podcast. I know she's also an actor, I know she's in New York, and they type in actor or actress, you know, New York podcast host or podcast. What happens when we're in lay like worlds of guessing vaguities, but that are related to maybe identities or titles that one might hold when we are searching in a more vague way on the SEO of it all, and how do we make that come back to you directly?

[14:39] Tonya Lawson: Okay. So the purpose of SEO is to get people to find you when they're looking for what you do or what you have to offer. Okay. So you will use your podcast, for example. When people are searching for your podcast, say on Apple Podcasts, what are they searching for? Because they don't know your podcast is out there yet. What are they searching for to find you? They are searching for performer, actor, actress, theater, dancer, um, TV, film, entertainment, um, directing, multi-hyphenate. I think there's like a bunch of labels that we kind of actually have in our subheader of our title currently, so that we are kind of catch-alling them in like the upper part of it, not just on the description part of it.

[15:36] Tonya Lawson: Okay, that's what you want to be ranking for. Those terms that you just told me, that is what you want to be showing up for when people are searching Google. So, podcasts for actors. Um, I believe I found you when I was searching for podcasts for creatives or creative podcasts. Um, those are the things you want to search for, and your website can help boost your podcast because you have the show notes, right? You can incorporate those keywords into the show notes of your website. That is gonna help Google boost it.

[16:15] Tonya Lawson: So the way you're gonna structure the text on the website is you're gonna start with one, a targeted keyword. So that targeted keyword might be podcast for actors. Okay. Now you want to add in related keywords to that. Podcast for thespians, um, podcast for actresses. People might be saying actress instead of actor. You want to think about every term they can do, and you don't have to do this all yourself. You can literally go to Google and type in podcast for actors, and the drop-down auto-complete menu will drop down, and you can pull things from that because that's what Google thinks people are searching for because that's what people are searching for.

[17:02] Tonya Lawson: Also, in Google, you can see the section where people questions other people ask. Make sure you're answering those. You also see um what other terms people are searching for or related terms, you can incorporate those as well. All of those will help you rank for that keyword. And when it comes to the alt text of it all, then in that respect, right? So let's say we are trying to, you know, get all these alternative words into that initial space on the website without saying, you know, like as like a byline visually for folks of like the podcast for 17 different words. Like, how are you essentially hiding that so that people don't see that that's what you're doing, although it's definitely doing it on the back end?

[17:51] Tonya Lawson: Okay. So you don't want to hide anything because Google will flag you. You want everything to be up front. So with the alt text itself, remember, alt text describes an image to someone who is visually impaired. So you would literally go to the image for your podcast and you would describe it. You would mention, you know, the color, the title of the podcast, but then you would incorporate some of those keywords. So it would be, you know, the podcast for actors, dancers, creators, but just put it in a sentence, just like you told me to think about that alt text as your elevator pitch. You're telling that person who's visually impaired what your podcast is about there.

[18:39] Tonya Lawson: Yeah. But it needs to read in a natural manner. You don't want to just plug all those keywords in because Google calls that keyword stuffing. And they know it doesn't sound natural. The person listening to it is going to be like, what? I don't understand. So many words. One to two sentences. That's all you need. And what happens if I don't have a website? Let's say I am somebody though, who, you know, at this juncture in my life, I haven't created my own personal website. But again, like, you know, I've done a bunch of things and if they were all linked accordingly, they would link back to me, even though there isn't the main hub. What am I doing?

[19:16] Tonya Lawson: Okay. So SEO goes far beyond just your website. It used to be solely a website situation, but when you think of SEO, you're thinking search engines. Okay. So Google is the number one search engine. What is the number two search engine? Do you know what it is? YouTube is the second largest search engine. But here's the thing: Instagram and TikTok are also search engines. So you're going to want to incorporate SEO across all of these platforms.

[20:09] Tonya Lawson: Or the caption. You want to make sure your targeted keyword also appears in on-screen text. And then you want to make sure you're using it when you're speaking in those videos. That's what's going to help them rank. Now, the keyword is going to be centered around what the video is about. So if it is, you know, say you're an actor and you're giving examples of how to do different voices or different techniques and you're putting that into a 60-second TikTok. Well, make sure that you include that because people are out there searching this stuff.

[20:47] Jennifer Apple: Hi, actor friends. Talking to you. If finding the perfect monologue has you feeling stuck, I've got just the thing. I put together a free monologue selection toolkit just for you. It's packed with resources, free and paid options, plus tips for choosing, editing, and customizing pieces to showcase you. Head over to JenniferApple.net/slash freebie and stop avoiding the auditions that ask for a monologue or waiting for the perfect piece to simply fall into your lap. Dive into this free toolkit that I set up just for you that'll set you up to feel agency over your process and artistry. That's JenniferApple.net/slash freebie and get started on finding your next go-to monologue.

[21:27] Tonya Lawson: Okay. This feels so nitty-gritty for somebody who's just like, I just like to post and I don't want to think about it. What would be the incentive for people to start to recognize? And this is, I guess, going back to like your whole point of like you are your own business and people need to know to be able to find you. Um, but I'm guessing I'm leading the question here. Like for people who aren't necessarily thinking about it on their daily basis, as they're saying posting, you know, a carousel on their Instagram about just like photos from their life, or as you know, they're making a random reel or TikTok as they walk down the street noticing a bird in a tree. And it has nothing directly related to the work that they're doing. How are we, or like what is the benefit for us to be thinking about this while we're posting? And or how do we not take away from that organic kind of posting to then link back conceptually or actually to the work that we are doing?

[22:25] Tonya Lawson: Well, that depends. So let's take that, let's say you just went on vacation and you're putting a photo dump on Instagram. Okay. Well, do you want those photos all over the internet? Do you want them to come up for your name? You might and you might not. They might just be out there for friends. Then don't worry about it. If they're really great photos and you want them to show up under your name, then just include some alt text in them. That's all. Don't worry about it too much. If it's a random, you know, bird that you saw, that has nothing to do with what you're trying to promote. Don't worry about it. Let those stay organic. You want to incorporate this on the content that you think people are going to be searching for because it's how people find you in search.

[23:12] Tonya Lawson: Okay. It doesn't mean you can't still just post that fun organic content, but it's how you grow your audience. So then let's talk about that part of it, right? So let's say we talk for sake of example, you know, obviously, like your studio, we can talk about my, you know, coaching studio itself. How would I become somebody who, you know, in the search of it all starts to get people to note my coaching, or how did you get your, you know, music studio really up in the SEO of it all? What were some of the things that you did or would do moving forward?

[23:52] Tonya Lawson: Okay, one thing I would do is like quick tip videos. So if you're dealing with, let's just say TikTok, okay. Most of my students are younger, they're on TikTok. Okay, you're on TikTok. Do like a quick tip video on TikTok. So for clarinet, it would be like how to tongue really fast in five steps, and just make it a quick fun video. Um, how to play Peppa Pig on Clarinet because all of my kids have found this. This is an exact sample they have found on YouTube and on TikTok. There are accounts out there just that just teach them to play songs. This is gonna start building your following.

[24:35] Tonya Lawson: So give me an example of something that you do in your coaching.

[24:39] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I do this thing called monologue sourcing where I find monologues specifically for people. So these are usually folks who are applying to BFA or MFA programs just because that's part of the audition requirements of you need to have mostly two, potentially three or four um monologues, sometimes contemporary, sometimes classical, that need to fit certain criteria. It's a really it's a big slug to go and find monologues, and often people don't necessarily know where to look and also to find pieces that feel very specific to them. And so um I do monologue sourcing to find those pieces for them and take the labor off of their chest. Um and obviously, this is also for you know folks who are just regularly auditioning and needing monologues for these auditions. Um, and I do so in a way that's very much about who they are, not about like type or what um they think the industry wants. It's like no, no, no, this is like a calling card for you.

[25:32] Tonya Lawson: So we're gonna take that example. You create a video, five unique places to find monologues for your next audition. Then you start in the video. And I know nothing about monologues or how to find monologue uh how to find them, but you say you've got that audition coming up, and you need the perfect monologue. You need one that aligns with you. I'm gonna show you five unique places to find them. But if you're new here, I'm Jennifer Apple, I'm a coach, I do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then zip through those five. You don't have to go into detail, it's just gotta be fast and quick. You don't want to go into detail because you want them to come to you, or you want them to continue to follow them for more.

You could even build that into a five-part series. You can do how to find a monologue that aligns with you and makes you shine. And then you could do like a five-part series that you put out. It's like, well, first of all, let's quit your personality tribe. Second, let's quiz, you know, your voice octave. Let's quiz your character preferences, etc. And just kind of go through that. And it's gonna get them to keep watching.

[26:37] Tonya Lawson: Well, that is gonna train the algorithm, the TikTok algorithm to show you. But also it's gonna train the TikTok algorithm because you are talking about monologues, they're probably searching monologues. You put your name out there by saying, if you're new here, I'm Jennifer Apple, blah blah blah blah blah. That's out there. There also you're gonna have on-screen text. Find the perfect monologue. Okay, so now that's out there. Then you can include in your description something about it as well. And for more information, click the link in my bio, have it linked back to your website. All of that is gonna build authority both within TikTok and on your website. And we're starting to see TikTok show up in Google search.

[27:22] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I have seen that starting to happen for this podcast, which is very exciting. When if you type it in, some of the videos and the clips that we've had, say on Instagram from reels that we've done from different guests have been starting to. I was like, oh, interesting, interesting how this is all working.

[27:37] Tonya Lawson: I guess for me, for example, I have a resistance that I am working on in therapy. No, I'm working through, I mean, yes, but working through around, you know, the content creation of it all. Like, let's say, you know, I didn't become an acting coach to become an acting coach content creator. I became an acting coach because I'm really fucking good at teaching. Like, and I love what I do, and I'm very good at what I do, and so I didn't do this because I had a dream of, you know, having all these reels be out, or me talking to, you know, the internet audience in these ways. How do I then get either comfortable with it, or what are some alternative ways if I am not yet at a place to feel like my face is the vehicle with which I can be seen yet to talk through these things?

[28:32] Tonya Lawson: Well, first of all, you are your brand. So you do have to get comfortable putting yourself out there if you want to build on those platforms. If you want to build on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you've got to put yourself. I know there was this trend of faceless content for a while, but that trend is dwindling. People want to see you, it's how they build trust in you. But you said yourself, you teach because you're really fucking good at it, right?

[29:02] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, okay.

[29:03] Tonya Lawson: I'm the same way, it's what I do. So when it comes down to it, and you're filming that, just think of it like you're teaching a student, except the students aren't right there in front of you. I did this series on Instagram where I had it set up like I was in an interview, and I felt so ridiculous, like talking to nothing. So I literally, I have like this little, I call it the studio monster. I have this little orange monster stuffy that I found at like home goods and was like, I've got to have it. And I literally just sat it in a chair and you talk to it and I taught to the little monster. So that's something that you can do to help you get more comfortable on it.

[29:46] Tonya Lawson: And if you're out there going, yeah, no, no, I cannot put my face out there, I can't do this. No, this is just not for me. Then go more website. It's more, it's text, it's education that way. But as creatives, most of us are out there on video in some form or capacity. If you had asked me when I graduated with my doctorate, if I was going to be spending almost every day on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram, I would have been like, you're crazy.

[30:15] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[30:16] Tonya Lawson: And at first it felt really awkward. But now I can just sit down in front of a screen and just go for it. And I just think about the people out there who are learning what I have to offer.

[30:28] Jennifer Apple: When we first started, you talked about affiliates, you talked about making money from your website. Let's talk more about this angle of all of it.

[30:37] Tonya Lawson: Okay. So there are multiple different ways to make money from your website. So even if you're not selling an actual product, like let's dial it back, and it's just, you know, for the sake of this as an example for folks who are saying like a performer, right? There isn't something that at the moment they don't teach something. They are their own brand as a performer. They're not selling any sort of merchandise, it's just them. Here is my resume, here's some clips of me singing, and here's my contact. What do you mean by that then?

[31:10] Tonya Lawson: Okay, so one, if that's all you have on your website, that's like a business card. That's not really gonna draw people in, and that's not gonna help you rank on Google. You need to have other content out there, you need to have text content. Your website is not your business card. I mean, you can use it that way, but then for people to find your website, it's like literally you have to tell them about it. So, text is the way to go.

[31:40] Tonya Lawson: So it could be something as simple as okay, so they're performing, you know, describe their performance, talk about it. You can also include in that, so say you're a musician, you're a flute player. Sure. You can link to the flute you play. You can link to the sheet music you're performing. People are like, oh, I love that piece. I want to buy it. Sheet Music Plus offers an 8% commission. They click through and buy it, you get 8% of their purchase. You get 8% of the purchase of their entire cart. Same thing with Amazon. If you're in the Amazon Associates program, you are, you know, out there recommending, and these are the props you're using. You can link those as well.

[32:36] Tonya Lawson: That's probably why it's as well. Because it reads generally. Exactly. I wrote it for the parents of my students because I am always telling them I need them to upgrade their mouthpiece. And they're like, oh, we're gonna upgrade their clarinet. I'm like, no, no, no, upgrade the mouthpiece first. It's cheaper and it's gonna make the biggest difference. And they were asking me all these questions, and frankly, I got tired of answering. So I wrote an article on the best clarinet mouthpiece and why you need it. And at the very top, I have my top two. This one's for beginners, this one's for intermediate advanced players. Then I have a table of contents there with jump links to send them wherever they want to go.

Why do I need a mouthpiece? Does it really make a difference? Well, what about reeds and the ligature? All of this stuff, and I know I'm getting into the business stuff, but I'm answering the questions that these people have been asking me. And I wrote this article four years ago. I'm still like getting commissions off of people buying clarinet mouthpieces.

[33:33] Tonya Lawson: Because they link directly to your favorite pieces. They link directly to Amazon where they can just click over there, buy it, and have it the next day.

[33:42] Jennifer Apple: And this is because you've worked you're an Amazon affiliate or whatever they're called.

[33:46] Tonya Lawson: Yes.

[33:46] Jennifer Apple: Got it.

[33:47] Tonya Lawson: Oh, well, I'm actually an Amazon affiliate in two capacities. There is the Amazon Associate, which is the easy one to get into. Anybody can sign up for it. You have to have a website, you link to your the stuff on your website. And then there's the Amazon influencer, and you have to have a high enough following on social media in order to qualify for this program. And in that one, you can actually have a storefront where you can put your recommended things and people can go purchase. Now, the Amazon Associate, you get a commission off of the products you're recommending.

[34:20] Tonya Lawson: The influencer, the Amazon Associate, the one with the website that anyone can sign up for, you get commission off of the purchase of the item you're recommending, and every single other item in their cart.

[34:33] Jennifer Apple: Oh.

[34:33] Tonya Lawson: So say you're just recommending, you know, this book of monologues, and they go and they purchase it. And while they're on there, they're like, oh man, I'm out of dish soap. I need to get that too. And I don't have to go time to go to the grocery store, so I'm gonna throw some of this in there. And oh, I'm traveling next week in my suitcase, the zipper broke, let's throw a carry-on in there. You just got a commission off of that entire cart.

[34:55] Jennifer Apple: That's wild that the associate somehow gets more. Is that what I'm hearing?

[34:59] Tonya Lawson: Yeah.

[35:00] Jennifer Apple: So, what would be the benefits of the thing?

[35:01] Tonya Lawson: Well, it's a little harder work now. Now, I don't know. As of last month, that's the case. They can always change things.

[35:10] Jennifer Apple: Of course.

[35:11] Tonya Lawson: And so what are other ways besides the affiliate parts of things that people could, I guess, make the money but also have people be driving to their, you know, let's say I like the idea of, you know, obviously stick with what you know and not like, you know, say a musician, a clarinetist, a flutist, whoever.

[35:28] Jennifer Apple: Is it flautist? I never know.

[35:29] Tonya Lawson: I the verdict's out even between flute players.

[35:35] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[35:36] Tonya Lawson: I had one of my dear friends who plays the flute. I asked her once. I'm like, is it flutist or flautist? And she's like, I don't know, but I sure as hell don't play the flout.

[35:46] Jennifer Apple: Amen.

[35:47] Tonya Lawson: I don't know either. I'm sorry if we've offended anybody or more specifically if I have.

[35:51] Tonya Lawson: So let's say you are a musician in this capacity, and you know, you're like, oh, okay, I'm listening to this right now, and it's so interesting. I haven't really thought about linking to my, you know, the sheet music or linking to my favorite, you know, items that I use for my musicianship. What are some other ways for you to be thinking about driving people to and I, you don't teach yet, you know. What are some other ways to be thinking of or I'm not interested in going down the affiliate link on Amazon that I'm, you know, that's so much work, whatever. Let's say what are other ways that we could be thinking about drawing people to your website.

[36:25] Tonya Lawson: Okay. In that situation, if you're like, I don't want to write, I'm not a blogger, I'm not gonna do it. That's where you're gonna rely on social media to send them there. That's where you're gonna have to do the SEO based social media. How you incorporate all the SEO aspects into your social media situations or into your YouTube, etc. and send the traffic to your website that way.

[36:50] Jennifer Apple: Okay.

[36:50] Tonya Lawson: So that it basically does a mutual send from one to the other and they start to work with each other.

[36:56] Jennifer Apple: Absolutely.

[36:57] Tonya Lawson: Absolutely. And another example, just from a performer standpoint, there is a girl in my mastermind who she does the candlelight concerts. We're in a mastermind group together. And she does really well with that. But she's also got some other recitals going. And she was ticket sales were just a little lower than she wanted them to be. And there were a lot of people in her audience that weren't local. So she is offering live stream tickets to her performance. And she is live streaming the performance and people can still buy a ticket and attend online. So that's something else if you're a performer that if you link your ticket link to on your website and or from your social and link it back to you essentially you would be syncing up these to work together.

[37:48] Tonya Lawson: Well, it's a monetization strategy.

[37:49] Jennifer Apple: Got it.

[37:50] Tonya Lawson: That's what you're saying. It's a monetization strategy. You could put it out there on your social, send them to your website to buy the tickets and then they can live stream your performance and you've just made money off of ticket sales for people who aren't even there.

[38:02] Jennifer Apple: Love that.

[38:03] Tonya Lawson: Have you been using the same monologue for years? Are you gearing up to apply for BA, BFA or MFA programs and need pieces for that process? Or maybe you just have no idea where to even start with monologue hunting. I get it. And that's why I offer monologue sourcing. This is a unique process where I find monologues specifically for you. So many artists pick pieces based on external labels like type or for roles rather than finding material that represents who they truly are. So here's how it works. We'll meet virtually and you'll share all about who you are, your passions, values, beliefs, and everything in between. Don't worry, I will help guide you through this process. Then I'll get to work finding monologues that fit you like a glove.

With years of experience sourcing pieces for hundreds of artists, I've seen the difference it makes to have a monologue that genuinely feels like you. So if you want to feel empowered about the monologues you bring into rooms and use for auditions, I would love to help you find them. And because you're a listener of the Empowered Artist Collective podcast, I'm offering an exclusive rate. Head to EmpoweredArtistCollective.com/slash podcast promo to register and claim the special offer. That's empoweredartistcollective.com/slash podcast promo. I cannot wait to help you find monologues you absolutely adore.

[39:20] Tonya Lawson: What do you say for the Chat GPT of it all? That you know so many folks are now going to Chat GPT to even just do their searches for things, right? That they're not even going to Google anymore. They're just living in Chat GPT and they're just like, tell me about this. Who do I know to do this? Compile these things, whatever it is. What happens in that land if we are actually foregoing the classic search engines?

[39:48] Tonya Lawson: Okay, that's a great question. And the answer is it's literally changing every day at this point.

[39:55] Tonya Lawson: Yes. Because I am the queen of AI. I have been using AI writers since before Chat GPT existed. I've been through all of them, like looking through what's the best. And Chat GPT when it first started out, didn't get on the internet. However, now it searches the web. If you are ranking online, it will pull your information into Chat GPT. Even if you are, and that's only if your SEOs are working, essentially. If you're ranking online in search, Chat GPT is gonna find it and pull it in. But also for as a warning to people who are using Chat GPT to search everything, it's not always accurate. Sometimes it's wrong wrong. I was using, I wasn't using Chat GPT for this specific example. I was using Claude and Claude C-L-A-W-E-D. C-L-A-U-D E. It's just it's a different AI writer.

So I was using Claude, and I was asking about off page SEO examples, et cetera, just seeing what it threw out, and it threw out Haru, help a reporter out. And I was like, that's great, but Haro shut down a year ago. And then it's like, oh, you're correct. Instead, use this. So, but if I didn't know that, and I've caught my university students in some of that too. It's like, I know you use AI writer because this is incorrect information. You didn't check it. So just know that it's not always accurate.

[41:31] Jennifer Apple: So then how do we get good at asking for what we need? As in, let's say folks are going there and they are looking for, you know, a flutist flautist, or they're looking for, you know, in their region, or they're looking for somebody who is, say, a monologue coach, you know, and they don't necessarily have the and I guess this is similar for like a regular search engine, right? Like, are we just talking about like as long as you've gotten these keywords, the job of these engines are gonna pull these people regardless, or is it more that like on our own we need to be thinking about the way in which people would be asking about yourself and then to be writing that into the back end?

[42:13] Tonya Lawson: Yes, that. Yeah so the best way to it and not even into the back end like just have it front facing the best way to rank is to literally answer the questions that people are asking and there is a new tool out that I fell in love with and I did a YouTube video and mentioned them and they actually reach out to me and gave me a discount code for it which I can send to you if you want to put in it's called answer Socrates and best of all you can do some searching for free I it's it's one of those I can't remember how many it gives you but like answer the public gives you three free searches a day it gives you a few free ones every day to start out if you're doing this seriously then a paid version is is great too but it's called answer Socrates and you can put in any keyword and it will start spitting out the questions that people are searching for.

[43:11] Jennifer Apple: Interesting.

[43:12] Tonya Lawson: And then also media use that ask me a question box. You know get on there and say hey I think I'm gonna pop on here and do a live talking about monologue auditions what are your qu what questions do you have? And then quite literally they'll start coming in the students you work with think about the questions they've asked you. Okay all of these are potential blog topics for your website I use the word blog people associate blogging they're like, oh, that's so 2010. It's a tumblr and blogger and all that. But that's actually not true. Like, literally, anytime you search the internet for anything and you come up on an article, that is a blog post. That is what it's considered in the eyes of Google.

So, like, literally a few weeks ago, we had an issue with our our the flow in our kitchen sink being really low. And I Googled it and it showed me how to um how to unclog it, like what the problem was, and there was some sediment in it. That was a blog post that I read to learn how to do that. So when I say blog, that's what it is. You want to think about questions people are asking about what it is you do. Whether it is, you know, coaching, helping with monologues, whether it's voice acting, whether it's teaching music lessons, whether it's reading tarot cards, whatever. You want to make sure you are answering questions around the things people are asking. That is the number one easiest way to rank.

[44:51] Tonya Lawson: Okay. You want that's the meat of it all. Everything else are like the little things that make it better. So think about them like the spices you might add to the meat to enhance the flavor. So that's the alt text and images. That's updating your meta description. The meta description is the little blurb that Google shows underneath your website telling what that page is about. You want to up include it in your URL slag. So for me, it would be like I have a membership creative SEO, and it would be Tonya Lawson.com/slash creative dash SEO. So that's in there as well. These are the little things you want to do. And then remember, people are asking questions. So you're not ranking for one specific word.

You're usually ranking for a series of words. And if you can get that specific question in there, it helps. That's also gonna help you when it comes to ranking high in Google. When you go to Google and you type a question, and Google gives you that AI generative text box with the answer in it highlighted. If you look down at the bottom, there's a website associated with that. They're pulling from your website. And you better bet a lot of times I will go ahead and click on that to learn more. And a lot of other people will too. So answering questions that people are asking is the number one thing you need to focus on. And that includes Google, that includes YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, all of it.

[46:29] Jennifer Apple: And as far as say, like growing your audience through all of this, is it just based again off of people like needing that interest again, search for that interest, then find you and then become fans of yours? Or is there a way for somebody to be a little bit more proactive around growing their audience through this kind of methodology?

[46:52] Tonya Lawson: Okay, so when it comes to growing the audience, you're really focusing now on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram because we do not use blogs or websites as an audience anymore. Google is to find information, they are gonna bring new people to you though. So when it comes to growing the audience, say you are ranking on Google for how to find a monologue for my next audition. They find you. You can have your social media in there. They can then link to you. Okay, now they start following you. Now they are a member of your audience. All because you wrote a blog post on how to pick the best monologue for your audition. They found you, they went over on social, they found you there. They discovered you had a podcast. They subscribe to it. They found you on YouTube. That's how you use it to grow your audience.

[47:47] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Um thank you for going on this like technical journey with us here. You know, I try very hard to bring in folks all across the spectrum of all of the things. And, you know, I feel like in some ways the ones that are we've had somebody talk about LinkedIn, we'd have some, you know, we've had somebody come here to talk about about, you know, websites. Like we we've had these things. And, you know, I for me it's important just because yes, there's the creative part, yes, there's the people in the industry, yes, there's the emotional conversations, and there is sometimes like the technical part around like maintaining what it is that we do and reminding ourselves of what we do as a business, whether we like to think of it or not, like we are living in a corporate capitalist structure where like you are your own business for most of the things that you do.

Um, and so to feel like we have some sort of agency around bringing folks in or crafting the way in which we allow folks to come into our sphere or bring folks in or invite folks in, you know, I think this is like a wonderful little reminder that um although there's potentially resistance people might feel, or it's like a totally new, you know, can of worms that it's like, oh my god, now I have to think about this. But there's something about knowing that, like, if one chooses to do this, now here are some big like just beginning steps to take to start to integrate this into one's postings, sharings, so that one can start to begin to feel some autonomy around one's business, which I think is a really helpful thing. So thank you.

[49:23] Tonya Lawson: Thank you. And and just to add on to that, I think in the creative world, we have made being a business a bad word. And I'll be honest, when I was in graduate school and all through college, a lot of my professors either they romanticize this starving artist lifestyle. You're doing it for your craft, you're doing it for your art. But here's the deal there is nothing romantic about being a poor struggling artist. It's hard. And it is okay to want to be paid for your craft. And deserve to be, I think it's just like not even want. It's like it's it's not even okay. It's like frankly necessary, but that's a whole other conversation.

[50:06] Jennifer Apple: It is.

[50:06] Tonya Lawson: You deserve to be paid for your craft. You have to be able to pay your bills. You need a place to live, ideally without 17 roommates. And you need to be able to put food on the table. You need to be able to go to the doctor if you're sick, to be able to have insurance. These are just basic human rights. And there is nothing wrong with wanting them. And I know that when I got into some of the SEO, some of my music friends are like, oh, you're not doing music anymore. No, I still am doing music. I'm doing music and this, which is something I love and I'm passionate about. And it's okay to be passionate about something outside of your craft. That's what makes us human. That's what makes us interesting. I also like to run, and I enjoy reading and knitting and crochet. And that's okay.

[51:00] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[51:00] Tonya Lawson: That doesn't make me a sellout because you know.

[51:02] Jennifer Apple: Well, it's also decided to go.

[51:02] Tonya Lawson: No, but you're also like a human being with a lot of interests. And I think you know, to remember and remind ourselves that like that is arguably like what brings your form of artistry to your art. You know, it's like if you would didn't do anything other than what it is that you do, what are you pulling from? I think about that often. And so, you know, I think it's a wonderful reminder that we do have some control over some things, and this is potentially one of them. And how are we choosing to engage with the way in which we are inviting people in and sharing of ourselves and to then have the tools to be able to do so? I think is a very important and crucial thing for us. So thank you for sharing all of this with our audience.

[51:46] Tonya Lawson: Um, for anybody who wants to work with you, find you, learn more. Um, what are the best ways within your boundaries for people to reach out?

[51:56] Tonya Lawson: My website is Tonya Lawson.com, and I am on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at DR dot Tonya Lawson at Dr. Tonya Lawson.

[52:06] Jennifer Apple: Amazing. Thank you so much for being here.

[52:09] Jennifer Apple: That's it for today's episode. I hope you walk away with some fresh insights, feel inspired and a little more empowered to take the next step on your artistic journey. Remember, whether it's a small shift or a big breakthrough, every step forward counts. You've got this, and we're here cheering you on every step of the way. If you found today's episode helpful, don't forget to hit subscribe so you'll never miss out on the discussions we have each week. And if something today really resonated with you, please leave us a review. It truly is one of the best ways to help other artists find our podcast and join in on the conversations. Plus, we feel the love too when you do, and don't keep all this goodness to yourself.

Share this episode with your people or post about it on social media. Be sure to tag @EmpoweredArtistCollective and @JenniferApple_ so we can see what's landing for you and keep the conversation going. As always, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. And thank you for being a part of this incredible community. Keep creating, keep thriving, stay empowered. I'm Jennifer Apple. Until next time.