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[0:02] Jennifer Apple: Hello. Welcome back to this week's episode of the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast. My name is Jennifer Apple, and this week I got to talk to the incredible Shani Hadjian about all things headshots. There are tons of incredible headshot photographers out there. Shani's work really speaks for itself. And the way in which they approach the space, the environment, the shoots, the prep, the emotional life around all of it is something that I really wanted to share with all of you. And of course, we talk about wardrobe and hair, makeup, accessories, how to show up to your shoot emotionally, physically, spiritually. About Shani also shares tips for finding a photographer that speaks to you and price points, how often to update your shots, what to prep in advance, and most importantly, the way to be yourself in front of the camera. So if you are in need of new headshots or are thinking about booking a session in the near future, this episode is for you. Enjoy.

[1:06] Jennifer Apple: Hi.

[1:08] Shani Hadjian: Hey.

[1:10] Jennifer Apple: Um, y'all, I'm so pumped that Shani Hadjian is here with us today.

[1:15] Shani Hadjian: Hello.

[1:16] Jennifer Apple: Hey.

[1:17] Shani Hadjian: I'm excited to be here.

[1:18] Jennifer Apple: Oh, I cannot wait. Um, for anybody who's listening, who are you today?

[1:23] Shani Hadjian: Today I'm sweaty. And I am Shani, my pronouns are she/they, and I am an actor, photographer, and filmmaker living in Brooklyn. And I specialize in actor headshots.

[1:37] Jennifer Apple: Yes, you do. And that's I mean, that's really the majority of why you're here, though. I'm sure that this conversation will unpack a lot more. Um, what's filling your heart right now? Like, what are you what's making you happy? What's filling you with joy? I'm just curious, selfishly.

[1:54] Shani Hadjian: I mean, I will say the amount of clients that have come to me after this two-year time period that have said, "I have found myself," that's what's fueling me. It's really cool to see some, um, I'm gonna say some joy, some good that has come out of this time in terms of self-awareness and also just ownership of self, which is cool because we are seeing it in the industry, and I think that's because actors are um stepping into themselves strongly. Um, it's and that's that's fueling me.

[2:36] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Ugh, I love that. I cannot wait to get into this conversation. But I also just want to remind you and myself, do you know where I first met you? Remember where you first met?

[2:45] Shani Hadjian: Um, I believe it was um auditions for Spamalot.

[2:49] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. That was so long ago. Oh my god, for Lady of the Lake, which Shani booked, y'all. Um, but I just I just remember I remember that audition so well, oddly, and like most auditions don't stick, and maybe because it was literally at my alma mater and I was like, ugh, this is why I'm here. Um, but I feel like I haven't seen you much since then.

[3:12] Shani Hadjian: So I mean for the ether webs, really.

[3:14] Jennifer Apple: Correct. I feel like we saw each other then at a random audition once, and I think Sarah Primer then like was like, "Hey, you guys know each other?"

[3:23] Shani Hadjian: Yeah.

[3:24] Jennifer Apple: And we were like, yes, we met at this audition. I think that was the one time since that Spamalot audition that we saw each other in person.

[3:32] Shani Hadjian: Yeah.

[3:33] Jennifer Apple: Wow, I haven't heard of Sarah Primer in years. Hello, Sarah, if you listen. Um, wild, I hope you're doing well. The world is insane. Um, well, I wanna just before we even like get into the full weeds of Headshots Land, how did this particular part of your creative hat begin? Like, how did you begin your photography journey?

[3:54] Shani Hadjian: Totally. So I um I went to college for musical theater, but before then, even so I grew up with artists as parents, and I always had a camera. I loved photos. Um, and I took photography classes growing up, and then in college, I always tell this anecdote because it's funny to me. I did not drink, and there was some pressure to drink, but if I had a camera, that was my excuse.

[4:26] Shani Hadjian: Yes. So I became the unofficial like historian, where I would just be like, "Oh no, no, I'm good holding up my camera, like let me take a photo," and then that would distract people. Okay. Um, and then because of that, always having a camera, people would be like, "Hey, could you take my headshots?" And honestly, I wish I could find them from 15 years ago because they're so bad. Um, but that's where it kind of started, and then I moved to the city in my first two years in the city, I barely auditioned because I was just trying to make ends meet and I was serving tables and bartending. And then I was like, you know what? I want an artistic outlet. I need to do something. So I in 2010 I started my business.

Um, and that first year I just built my portfolio, and I mean, I found things. I think it was like $75 for a photo shoot. Um, and then built it, built it, built it, and then now here I am 12 years later, where it is, I joke. I am I think I'm like kind of a photographer that dabbles in acting nowadays, which I love. I don't mind it at all because I focus on actor headshots, and so I get to be around all the people that I have loved my whole life, um, as well as occasionally acting.

[5:52] Jennifer Apple: Amazing. Um, so a side note for I feel like I'm feeling very um parallel to you. I was also that girl who took photos, and then pre-grad school for me, this was my side hustle. I was a headshot photographer, I know.

[6:08] Shani Hadjian: Heck yes.

[6:09] Jennifer Apple: I like I still have the domain, like Jennifer Apple photography, and like stuff from back then is there, and I look at it and I'm like, is this good? Was this good? And the thing that was like my derailing is the editing process. I hate it. I despise to this day, I despise editing, but I'm always I'm always that girl with photos and taking pictures, and I have all my iterations of cameras and yada yada yada. But I'm just I'm in some ways I'm envious of people like yourself who are like I continued to love it and I continue to do it because it really did, you know, in some ways like a voyeuristic visual into people's psyche and their hearts and their souls, and you really just see people in a very intimate way, and it's meeting people at their core of who they are, and there was something so magical about that.

So, in some ways I'm gonna live vicariously through you and what you are doing now again, because this was a different chapter season of my own life. Um, I know, but the industry's certainly changed since like the outdoor headshots, like by like a brick wall. Now it's like, where's her color? What are you doing?

[7:07] Shani Hadjian: Yeah.

[7:08] Jennifer Apple: Um, so let's get into it. If I were to find a headshot photographer and I was Googling in the world, what about you would I want to shoot with? Or why would I choose you? What about you makes you who you are as a photographer?

[7:25] Shani Hadjian: Um, great question. Uh, so I I came up with this phrase a couple of years ago because I was in like a leadership workshop. And um I created this phrase that says, "I create spaces where everyone is seen and heard, building connection and acknowledging worth by lifting my voice so others feel free to lift theirs." Yes. Took me a long time. Um, and I stand by that. Um, I think that I have worked very hard to shape the reputation of a space for all that will capture your authentic self. Um, without you even knowing, because I think that that can be scary. I don't a lot of clients will be like, "I don't know what my authentic self is yet." Um, but I do. Like I will I will get there. Um, and so I think that I I should change my wording on that if I'm thinking of my like therapist.

Uh I know I uh I uh I do create that space. I also am adamant about um walking the walk, not just talking the talk. So uh 10% of my profit goes to a charity of my choice essentially every month. Um, and this year it has been the first couple of months were Equality Texas um to help our um trans siblings out there, and then the past couple months have been um like abortion foundations um to aid in that, and so that is really really cool to me. Um, because you like clients are not only supporting me, but they are supporting others as well. Um, and then also I am actively auditioning, I'm actively booking work in commercial theater and TV film, and so it kind of gives me that view on what's happening.

I understand what it's like to get headshots taken, I understand what um casting and agents and everybody is looking for on the other end, uh, and I can kind of put those two centers of knowledge together to help create the best uh outcome, I'll say, um, not even experience because that has nothing to do with the other end of the table. Um, so that you can really see something come from your headshot session. My my favorite thing is when clients reach out, or sometimes agents reach out and they're just like, "Oh, this person was having a really hard time getting in the room, and now we've got them in the room," you know, for four um I mean, sometimes it's recurring, like right out of the bat, like recurring roles, and I'm like, that's incredible.

I had somebody that just said that they um got their first Broadway audition um after our headshot session. It's things like that. Like I want tangible evidence, and so uh I get really specific, and I think you can see that in my photos.

[10:33] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. Okay, great. So I've decided to work with you.

[10:36] Shani Hadjian: Yeah, I love that.

[10:37] Jennifer Apple: And great. So leading up to this process, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna make myself a very I've never, let's say I've never taken headshots, right? So I'm gonna just pretend or add that I was literally never a photographer and I didn't know any of these things. So what do I need to know about myself going into a shoot? Is it is it my energy? Is it my aesthetic? Is it types and roles? Is it I hate this word so much type but also brand also hate that like what are we what do I need to know about myself before I even deal with the space and what I'm wearing and all that jazz?

[11:12] Shani Hadjian: Okay. So I too don't love what has historically been referred to as type.

[11:19] Shani Hadjian: Yeah. But when I talk about it, I literally want to think of it's like the commonalities of the types of roles you want not necessarily what your type is that we've heard in the industry. So let's say you make a list I always suggest making a list of dream roles or TV shows that you've seen that you're like I want to be on that and it's that thing where you can find common roles. So let's say within that list you have Mimi in Rent, uh now I'm gonna blank on all names and every and everything. Um, Clark from The 100 don't know if you watch that, um, what's her face in Next to Normal that sings "Superboy" in the Invisible Girl, you know whatever those are all you can see those are all contemporary and like a little we'll call them edgy.

[12:15] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[12:15] Shani Hadjian: Um, and that will inform you of that type. Like, that's your like badass, edgy, you're gonna um, you're gonna be strong, powerful, connected in that way. So that's where I kind of talk about like if I refer to type, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying like, oh, looking at you, Jennifer, you are this type. No, um, because you are more than that, you can do whatever you want. Um, so I always suggest kind of knowing, at least knowing the types of roles that you want to play. And some people have a really hard time with that, and then it's like, well, do you like we can go even simpler? Um, so it's like, do you like comedy? Is it Shakespeare and classics? Is it um big broad musicals? Those are all going to inform your photographer about what you do.

Hopefully. Uh hopefully that will the photographer has that in mind um to help. So that is one thing to know about yourself. The rest, in terms of like, some people come in and they're like, I don't know what to do with my body. That's okay. Like, you as an actor are trained in connection, and that's really all we want. And hopefully your photographer will be there to give you direction. There are a couple tips that I always give, you know, I like the um client to lean forward a little bit, it gives it a little bit of that activeness because it's a two-dimensional stagnant photo, but if we can bring some activeness to it, then great. But like those aren't things I think the client should worry about.

[14:08] Shani Hadjian: Okay. So really to me, you just need to know the roles that you want to play, and then from there, that's where your homework comes in to get your outfits going. So the days of wearing jewel tones are over. Thank praise.

[14:30] Shani Hadjian: And it is it is all about specificity. Um, the casting directors are looking at, I mean, I saw that you had Erica Hart on. And I remember she posted something about like within three hours, she had like 1800 submissions.

[14:48] Jennifer Apple: Yes.

[14:54] Shani Hadjian: So as soon as they look at it, we want them to feel something. So that's where your clothing choice can be really powerful. So that's the other thing that you can know it before you even book is your clothes. But honestly, that can also come after you book because you can talk to the photographer a little bit. But I can go into that now if you want.

[15:16] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah.

[15:17] Shani Hadjian: So let's jump to clothing. Because I mean, there's the, but I shouldn't wear something distracting, or I don't want to, you know, dress like I'm a thing that isn't me, but also my favorite shirt isn't necessarily flattering because it hangs off of like what does one do when one is either I don't care about my clothing or one cares too much about the clothing and all the things in between.

[15:42] Shani Hadjian: Okay, so all right, there were so many things you just said I want to comment on. Um we have time. Let me let me let me think. Okay, well, first of all, if you don't think it's you, don't really wear it. Great, you know, like I am a queer person and when my manager wanted me to get headshots that was like first date. Um and I was like do you what do you mean by that? Just like just something really like pretty that you would wear on a first date. And in my mind I was like I would wear a leather jacket and like that's not what you want. So then I, you know, talked to her, I was like, do you mean something like soft um and romantic? She was like yeah and honestly the only thing I have I have this soft um purple sweater um and I ended up wearing that and I chose like a lighter background and then a softer expression like a soft smile because like I'm not gonna wear a like frills.

I'm not gonna wear a spaghetti strap. You know what I mean? I'm like I'm not gonna wear what I think I think like a romantic lead would wear but I can wear something that will soften me a little bit. So it's things like that to think about um how would you present how would you like to be dressed if you walked in and the wardrobe was like all right you have your choice of this or this it's kind of the like two ends of the spectrum which one would you be I don't know if I'm explaining that well but it's that like you can decide which end of the spectrum you are if you don't fit the other end.

[17:32] Jennifer Apple: Well, what if it's that you genuinely don't care?

[17:35] Shani Hadjian: I know, like I think that's part of maybe I'm projecting on. I'm owning this space here that like I wouldn't call myself fashionista in any way of any term. And it's like for me, I think similarly to you like on a date, like I'm just wearing whatever I'm comfortable with. And like then I get to show up and that's the whole point of why I'm on a date with you anyways. So it's like if I'm gonna wear what I'm gonna wear it's probably gonna be something chill and cool or you know breathable and comfortable but that isn't necessarily I don't necessarily have like the whole plethora of options in my closet. Do I need to go out and then find say soft do I need to find say hard or is it like just wherever your dial is just own the fact that this is your dial and we will make it work when you all get there. That's how I feel about it.

[18:25] Shani Hadjian: I definitely feel like we'll make it work especially with colored backgrounds being a popular thing these days it's like you can bring in a white shirt and a black shirt and we'll make it work. Yeah to give the connotation of anything. Yeah it can get more specific but then we get into the thing of like we can get more specific with hair right and makeup and jewelry and accessories as well. So there are ways that you can help with that. Um but yeah I always say if you want to go shopping just keep the tags on and then return it. We live totally totally acceptable. I don't like people to overthink but it is try to allow yourself to maybe have fun with the fact that you could buy something and then return it. No stores are listening. This is not sponsored by anything, please. We didn't say it, but we might have said it, so just we didn't tell you. Go shopping and key tanks and we didn't you did not hear it here first.

[19:26] Shani Hadjian: It's basically like you're just trying it on in the dressing room. Yeah, and then when somebody's like, but this is an amazing outfit, you're like, Yeah, you can go to that store and still try it on. I returned it last week. Yeah, it's still there. Um, and then what about things that for people who you know maybe aren't as comfortable in their bodies or are going through some sort of you know, body transformation and they still need to get headshots. How do you tell, talk to, communicate with people about owning their bodies as beautiful where they are, about clothing that fits them for who they are, embracing all of that the body dynamic, which I know is a big overwhelming thing. I want to like flag here that this is like potentially triggering and content warning. I don't know, but also I can imagine it can be really sensitive. So I just want to tag that.

[20:11] Shani Hadjian: Yeah, and I'm gonna say that that doesn't always happen in terms of talking about clothing to me. That is part we I open up with my clients about my struggles. I like we will talk about this, and it's it's pretty amazing to see the atmosphere and the energy in the room shift just because we are being honest and vulnerable, and also with that sentiment, you don't need to look at your headshot after it's taken. The point of a headshot is literally it's a tool, and it just needs to look like you. Yeah, and I always say it's that thing where it's like, I don't like the way I look, but that's what I look like. I can see a photo and be like, yeah, that's that is what I look like, and it is a skill that comes with practice of being able to um like disconnect from the emotional aspect of what you look like.

Um to be able to look at yourself and be like, yeah, I mean, I see a thousand things wrong with my face, but that's that's my face. Right. And that is a good, objectively good photo of me connecting with the eyes, telling the story I want it to tell. So with as with clothing, don't wear something that you don't feel comfortable in. If it is too tight and you feel uncomfortable in it, don't wear it. If it is loose and you feel uncomfortable in it, don't wear it, or I have clips here, we can clip it. But usually you don't feel comfortable even with clips. Also, like they are digital. We will take so many photos, you only need a few. It's it's that thing where and then don't ever look at it. I I never look at my head shot.

I mean, the only time I see it is if I'm gonna self-submit on actors access, and literally it takes it's two seconds. I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna I'm gonna use that one, and then I'm done. I do not have to spend time on it, and I I think that is perfectly acceptable.

[22:28] Shani Hadjian: Yeah, um it's just like you're don't spend time in front of the mirror. That's my therapist is like, don't mirror don't mirror check, don't do that. Also, isn't it weird? I mean, this is a total tangent, but isn't it strange that you will never actually know what you look like? Do you know what I mean? Like you are and I I think there's something really beautiful in that where even in a mirror it's a reflection. When you look in a camera, it's a it's a captured moment when you when somebody sees you through their eyes and they tell you what it's always actually mirrored and also not what you you are never ever in your entire existence of living on this planet ever able to see yourself. And for me, that's actually quite freeing because it's this you it's also the idea that we sound like something in our because the echo in our own heads of how our voices sound and the timbre of our voice and our sound.

And then you listen to your recording, you're like, oh, who's that? Which happened to me in this podcast. I was like, who is my voice? And then it was like just your voice. Like, no, you just cannot. It is what it is. But you'll never ever actually know. And there's something really freeing about that, I think, or at least that it whether it's disassociation or whether it's disconnecting from it, it's just like no matter how you view yourself and whatever means you view yourself, it will never actually be what another person is receiving. So just this there's it's just energy wasted.

[23:41] Jennifer Apple: Correct.

[23:41] Shani Hadjian: But if you sat in on my therapy sessions, it would definitely be me being like, No, I know this is what I agree. This is this is coming from maybe a place of deflection from my own therapy that I also am doing of like, yeah, yeah, no, it's totally fine. You are who you are, and that is what it is, and you just need to own that. And it's like, is it okay? It's not okay, it's not okay.

[23:59] Shani Hadjian: Yeah, absolutely owning the fact that this isn't this isn't just a solved thing. I'm not here being like friends, I have this figured out. I don't. Yes, the rational versus the emotional brand. Completely, completely.

[24:11] Shani Hadjian: But yeah, I I mean, it's hard. Getting headshots taken is hard. Um so I try to I try to explain to take the pressure off as a headshot photographer who makes my living doing this. I'm like, it's not a big deal. Um but really what it comes down to is it just it needs to look like you, it needs to be well lit, it needs to give them an instant idea of who you are and what you're capable of doing. And it needs to be somewhat connected in the eyes, because otherwise they might not feel an emotional pull to it.

[24:49] Jennifer Apple: Have you been using the same monologue for years and can use a new piece? Are you applying to BA, BFA, or MFA programs and need a monologue for that process? Are you someone who simply has no idea where to search for monologues? Well, lucky for you, I do what is called monologue sourcing, in which I find monologues specifically chosen for you. So many artists use pieces based off external labeling for types and roles rather than find pieces sharing who they really are and what speaks to them. So we'll meet virtually together. You share who you are as a human, what you love, your dislikes, your values, beliefs, family, friends, love, politics, you name it, I will help guide you through this. And then I go off on my own and find you monologues chosen just for you that fit like your love.

I've been doing monologue sourcing for years as an extension of the coaching I do with artists, and I have found pieces in this way for over hundreds of artists thus far. So if you are someone who wants to feel empowered about the monologues you bring into rooms and use for auditions, I would love to help you find them. And because you are a dedicated listener of the Empowered Artist Collective Podcast, I want to provide you with a custom link to an exclusive rate when you check out today. Head to Empowered Artist Collective.com slash podcast promo to register. That's empowered artists collective.com slash podcast promo right now. I cannot wait to help you find monologues you absolutely adore.

[26:24] Shani Hadjian: We'll talk about the emotional stuff in like a second. I just want to like get all the like aesthetic stuff out of the way because this is like where people tend to go. And it's like, is this what it is about? Um, makeup, hair, facial hair, jewelry, that stuff. What? Mm-hmm. Um, I always say, like, if you just be honest with yourself. Like if you are a person that wears makeup and you do not think that you do a good job, hire a makeup artist. Book a package that has makeup artists.

[26:58] Jennifer Apple: And do you have some that you always use? Like you have your people?

[27:02] Shani Hadjian: Yeah, I work with um four or five on rotation, um, all within the industry as either actors themselves or they went to school for acting, or they're working on Broadway as makeup artists, just because then everybody we can talk about the same world. It's not people coming from the editorial world um or the corporate world, it's people in it. Um, yeah, so it's that honest approach. It's if you if you don't normally wear makeup and you look at yourself objectively in the mirror and you say, I have redness in my skin, I have acne prone skin, I'm very shiny and need somebody to, you know, help me out with that. Yeah, book a makeup artist. There are different packages. I do not gender my packages, so I have a grooming package and a full makeup package, which um grooming is just the you know, skin stuff, redness reduction, shine reduction, under eye coverage, um, whereas the full makeup will be all of that plus eye makeup, blush, lips, um so you can be wearing makeup without looking like you're wearing makeup.

[28:11] Shani Hadjian: And I always suggest that because I I don't know if photographers don't do this anymore, but there used to be a time where they would not give you the high resolution images. You should be getting the high resolution images. I I just don't think that there's any reason why you shouldn't. But so with like with me, you get all the high resolution images. I want them to look as good as possible, so you can use them unretouched if you want. And that's what I always if you get a makeup artist, like chances are you will look even more retouched without being retouched. Um, so you can use more photos without paying more. Um, but then there are people that they look you can look at them, you they look at themselves and they say, No, my skin looks pretty darn good. Then don't use makeup artists, or I really I'm very good at makeup.

[29:02] Shani Hadjian: Right. Um, so it's that kind of honesty with self about makeup. Um, hair, it's the same thing. If you have no idea what you're doing, I suggest getting somebody. Um, artists, we will not put our ideas of what we think your hair or makeup should look like on you. So I always say, like, my clients are the executive producer. You have final say, you you like we are a client-based service, you are paying for us.

[29:38] Shani Hadjian: Um, we will give you our professional assistance. If you do not know what to do, we will say, Oh, this is probably uh like this is probably what we would do if we had the choice. Um, but ultimately, like you are in charge. So I'm not gonna change your curl pattern. I'm gonna take the like the straighter sections and curl it to match the curlier sections. Right. Because that happens with curly hair. Um if I always suggest if you if you can change up your hair throughout. Um, I mean, and that could literally just be pulling it half back, pulling it into a ponytail. A lot of people will come in and say they just want their hair down, and I and I understand that. I think it also comes from that idea that we need to look, I'm gonna quote unquote say pretty, right?

Um, and then if we unpack that, it is this idea of wearing hair down if you have long hair. Yeah. Um, which isn't correct on lots of levels. Um, it is just that thing of if you are going in for an athlete, if you are going in for a young mom, if there are certain rules that would not wear their hair down, yeah. Because it would just not be plausible. Like you would not be a cheerleader with your hair down. So I mean, if you're going out for glee in 2000, when was that? I don't even know. Five. Ten. I don't know. Sure. I don't know. Long time ago. Yeah. Like if you're going out for a sugar leader on there, like they wear their hair in ponytails, wear your hair in a ponytail. So it is that kind of like it can change the face.

If you have facial hair, if you are not opposed to shaving it, do it. It completely changes your look. Yeah. If you have uh I worked with this one client with short curly hair, and throughout, she came with it curly, and then we like ended up straightening it at the end, and it just like completely different. Yeah. And that's what she would do for those certain auditions. It's it's that knowing, and then we'll tie it back to what we talked about at the beginning of knowing self of this idea that like if you are prime time, like if you are going in for prime time shows, chances are you're gonna be hair straightened. It's little things like that, like knowing. But then if you also want to go for streaming, or you want to go or you want to show your curl pattern, wear curly.

Like there's little things that can make it super specific. Um are you going for upper east side like money? You might get a blowout every day. Like this character might get a blowout every day. It's just things like that to think about. Also, there's no right or wrong in any of this. Like, if you think, no, if I was a rich bitch on the upper east side, like I would wear my curl pad, I would wear my hair natural. Great, that awesome. Then let's do that. It's just things to think about, and you can play with it. Um that's kind of where I am with hair and makeup. Cool. What about jewelry?

[33:00] Shani Hadjian: It's a tool. Jewelry, yes, go for it. I love my I love my clients that come in, they're like, I'm an earring person, and I brought these dinosaur earrings, and I'm like, amazing. Where did you get them? I want to buy them. Obsessed. Yeah. We we my most liked photo of 2021 was Gwyn with a pink fuzzy jacket, a pink background, and like pink lollipop earring. Amazing. And Gwen is now well was on uh the Oklahoma tour and then was at Williams uh theater festival like booking like crazy because she had a um knowledge of self and really demonstrated it in the photos amazing and they're also just an amazing human but um but so yeah accessories sure beanie go for it uh I mean you know like pearls yeah I had I had I had a client that lives on the Upper East Side and she was like this is my upper east side look she brought a turtleneck a puff jacket and pearls yes it was so good it was so good yeah like just the pearls made it like in a puff jacket like she's going for a workout with it's it's that thing where it's like that is so specific yeah and we instantly know oh yeah we know who this is well what I'm hearing from you is you know I I think there's the fine line of when something feels quote unquote costume y versus when something is authentically your interpretation of the things that you know you can do and therefore it becomes more fun when it's like this is the playground I love playing all these things and with all these things in this playground this is my time in these couple of hours with you to just literally play with all of these things that I personally love, whether it's the outfit, the hair, the costume, not costume, the like the wardrobe, the jewelry, whatnot.

[35:08] Shani Hadjian: It's your space to play with the people and the types and the things that speak to your heart. Yeah. Like I wouldn't say wear a cheerleading outfit, but I'd say maybe a tank top like a razor rack tank top that's gonna be kind of cut like one. You know, and it's it's that thing where you can allude to and then it also makes it more versatile than the costume. Right. Because then that could be gymnast that could be track star. That could be just somebody showing off that they have great deltoids. Like I don't know. Like these breakdowns these days you never know this character must have great deltoids and if they don't please do not surprise I mean listen truly um let's talk now about the emotional component or the when you are in front of the camera and all of a sudden now there's lights and now there's a camera and now there's like it's you how do you hold a hand how do you encourage and or how do I if I were standing in that spot bring of myself in this in this situation to really show up through my eyes through my face in the most natural way that is of me.

[36:18] Shani Hadjian: I always say it's easier for actors to be other people than themselves in front of the camera. So sometimes I will suggest this idea that you are Jennifer in this world who doesn't mind getting their voted again. Actually might kind of like it. It's like you can I I don't know I always suggest that try to put that in there fake it tea make it kind of thing because it really does work. I also have a worksheet that I offer to all my clients that is more character based, which I think helps people get out of their head because that is what we're trained to do. We're not trained to take a headshot, we're trained to be and to connect. Within that workshop what worksheet, I have this section that is like phrases that this character would say.

And that is helpful because then you're up there, you're doing um, you know, the young mom. Uh, and then you're just thinking, like, oh, I'm so proud. Like, look at that's my kid. They're sharing. Look, oh, um, oh, you guys want some orange slices? Like, you're you know what I mean? It's like you kind of put on, you become this like character of like, oh, I'm stepping into this, or like the badass, like, I don't know. I just lifted my eyebrows, just literally thinking of the line, like, what do you want? Right, you know, like, and we're not looking for specific expressions. I'm not like just give me expressions, it is just like what's going on in your head. It some people don't work with the phrases, and then it's just thinking of a a person, a scene partner.

I am very active in my directing. Um, and I and I've heard that other photographers are not, so then it is more on the client, but I will always try to give you what you are the circumstance, and then also body direction in terms of relax your shoulders, yeah, chin up, chin down, like whatever I see, because a lot of people will tense up their shoulders, you know. I will help with that. I don't think those should be in the actors' minds um so I guess I would recommend it's like one have faith that you know how to connect think of the camera as your favorite scene partner and and just connect also it's hard for me because I'm like we're gonna be having so much fun like it's just gonna happen so like it's one of those things where I'm like I don't really actually like know how it happens but it does trust me it does like well I think you're bringing up something really important too right like the whole process for many people like they love a headshot session because it's a time to just be and explore and have fun.

Other people you know it's it's a process and they whatever and new people some people it's just new but I think what you are touching on is the fact that it is a relationship you and the camera and also more importantly you and who you decide to shoot with right it is something that if you are not comfortable with the person who is using this vessel through which to capture you then you are not going to show up as yourself.

[39:49] Shani Hadjian: And if you have somebody that you've vetted and you've communicated with and you've taken time to discuss the things that are important to you or you're nervous about I would imagine that therefore your session is infinitely more powerful just because you feel seen. Yes. And with that when you're looking for a headshot photographer I mean we're all good at stalking people like you should definitely check out what they stand for, also these days like please, but also like what do they post about? Do they post only I don't know only selfies? Like, I don't know. That to me tells me what that type of person is. Um are they posting only dog photos? I'm just saying, yeah, that would be my first choice.

Like, no, no, but like do some, like you said, vetting about the person. Also, um website professionalism, sure. But talk to be if you've if you know people that have worked with them, that is a great way to know about the experience if um if you can, and then also I always suggest if you love a photographer's work, find and you don't know anybody that has worked with them, find the so let's say we're on Instagram and you're like, ugh, this portfolio is amazing. If they tag those actors, please click and see if you can see what those actors look like, not in a headshot. Because there are times where I'm like, man, this photographer is incredible, and then I click on the actor's profile and I'm like, this looks nothing like them.

Yeah, so that is along with personality, um, and then that come that brings trust of knowing that it's going to look like you, and then also if you have known somebody that has worked with them or you can get a sense of who they are. I mean, I've tried to be I've been trying to make those silly reels so that people understand that like I'm kind of weird. Like But like in the best way. Oh, weird is like my highest compliment. Okay, great, great, great, great, great. Like, I'm like, is there an apology here? Because I don't like it. Absolutely not. No. No, like proud. Great. Good. Yes.

[42:17] Shani Hadjian: Um, but that type of thing, like, I'm trying to get my energy out there so people understand that like I'm not a stiff, yeah, corporate human. Yeah. Uh, and I don't mean corporate in a negative connotation, but I just am not corporate. Yeah. I know this is a sticky question, but I'd love to talk about price pointing things. Yeah. Um, and help me navigate this with you and how you feel comfortable. But you know, I feel like there is a very clear distinction of range with headshot photographers where there is the high end, and because that has that price tag associated with it, there's an assumption that this is what what what must be done, or there's like the very, very low, and I I don't mean that in like a negative connotation, but like a low end of price range, you're like, well, I guess they haven't had as much experience because they're offering it at this rate, and then there's what I would argue is like the middle range of things, but no matter what, you're shelling out money. So could we talk money for a moment?

[43:20] Shani Hadjian: Yes, I guess that's my question. Yeah, I mean, it it is it is hard. Um if you I always say if you love a photographer's work who is over a thousand dollars or close to it or whatever, yeah. If you can save up and work with them, great. I have I lots of clients. I just had, I feel like who was it? It was somebody where they um mentioned another um photographer, and I was like, well, yeah, if you want to shell out this much money, like I like I basically made a joke about me costing less. And this client said, like, well, yeah, I'm I noticed that as well, like in a way that it was like that was the deciding factor. Right. Which there's absolutely no shame in that. Like if you're like, I love this person's work, but I cannot afford that.

It's kind of that thing where it's like if you have a list and you put it in order of who you would prefer to work with, and then you go through and you're like, I cannot afford the first and second person, and you're gonna go with the third, go with the third.

[44:38] Shani Hadjian: Like if that's what you can afford. If you can save up for a couple months if you really want to work with that first on your list, go for it. But I definitely agree that there is this idea that when they cost more, it's because they're the best.

[44:55] Right.

[44:56] Shani Hadjian: And the best is so subjective. Like who knows? To one person they could be, to somebody else they might not be. But again, it's that who speaks to you, what do you like? Does it look like the client? Um then also I will say, like, a lot of the time the price point is higher because they have a studio space, right? And I am sitting in my large living room right now with photography equipment behind me, as you can see. I shoot in my home. Um it's a large space, it's essentially the size of what I could probably get for $2200 a month for a studio space, but I don't have that overhead, so I don't have to charge as much.

[45:42] Right.

[45:44] Shani Hadjian: Um, and I also as an actor myself, I also understand what it is, and I try to keep my prices low. Um, and my prices honestly went up for the first time in like four years this year, and I justified it because of inflation.

[46:03] Yeah.

[46:03] Shani Hadjian: Otherwise, I like hate doing that. But inflation was out of control. So um, but yeah, so it is, it's that, that so that has something to do with the price point. It's not necessarily um always who has worked with the, you know, best people or whatever. Sometimes it literally is just their overhead is higher, so they have to charge more.

[46:28] Yeah.

[46:29] Shani Hadjian: So it really comes down to who resonates with you and what you're capable of spending.

[46:34] Right.

[46:35] Jennifer Apple: How often do you think somebody um, I don't like the word, but should update their headshots?

[46:42] Shani Hadjian: Um, is it just like if you change aesthetically or if you energetically feel different? Is it totally subjective? Is it objective?

[46:50] Um yes.

[46:54] Shani Hadjian: So I always say if you are self-submitting and you keep noticing that like, oh man, I don't have a headshot for this role, this type of role, and I keep seeing this type of role. You know, make note of that. Um, or if your agents do the same, your agents or managers might say, you know, like we could really use this. That might be time to update something.

[47:18] Yes, if you change your hair drastically, and I mean like drastically, and you're gonna keep it that way. Cause like sometimes, I mean, when I I'm growing out my hair now, but when I would have like fades, I like yeah, two months would pass and it looked pretty different, but like it's still short hair.

[47:36] Yeah.

[47:37] Shani Hadjian: Um, and I would cut it nicely if I, you know what I mean? Like they would cut it or I would cut it before booking a job or something like that. Um, and if you dye your hair and you know you're gonna dye it back in six weeks is, you know, you don't need to. Um, if you look at your headshots and you think that you're like I don't even know this person anymore because you have, you know, um become, you know, more connected with a certain part of yourself or you just feel like a different human, I also say that could be a time.

[48:15] Yeah.

[48:15] Shani Hadjian: If somebody in a like pay to play or workshop or something says to you like you need a new headshot this doesn't look like you, take a step back, understand that that's just feedback and then you assess if you agree or disagree because if you disagree, don't spend your money.

[48:35] Yeah.

[48:36] Shani Hadjian: Um, because there are people that come in and they're just like this one person in this casting workshop said that um I was wearing too much makeup and I was like uh oh okay, I I don't know what that means, right? Um sometimes you do, sometimes you are can say this person's wearing too much makeup, but also other times that is just something that they wanted to say, or it's not, it's not uh helpful, yeah.

[49:14] Yeah, like tell me exactly what you mean.

[49:16] Shani Hadjian: Do I look older than I do I look older than I look in person because of the makeup? That's that is more helpful. Um, but sometimes people get caught up on one person's comment.

[49:28] Because it's that thing where somebody's gonna be like, I really like outdoor photos.

[49:33] Yeah.

[49:34] Shani Hadjian: And you're gonna be like, well, yeah, everyone else likes indoor right now. So um, but again, it's being kind of self-aware and objective with yourself.

[49:46] Yeah.

[49:47] Jennifer Apple: So on day of or pre-day of, what would be said physical preparation? Let's start two weeks ahead.

[49:53] Shani Hadjian: Great.

[49:55] Shani Hadjian: Okay. If you need a haircut, get a haircut. If you have a short hair or you know your hair if you have long, but usually with short hair, I know that my hair looks great five days after haircut. So I am going to plan a haircut five days before my headshot. Things like that. Think ahead. So I always say about two weeks ahead. Also two weeks ahead. If you do not exfoliate, try it, try it. But also try it all the time, like not every day, but like put that into your team.

[50:24] Right.

[50:25] Shani Hadjian: But I'm saying, like, don't try it the day of. Right. Cause I don't know what's gonna happen. But um, because I will always say like hide like moisturize and exfoliate if you can, but um try it ahead of time in case it doesn't go well.

[50:43] Um then once you get to the day of, or I'll say the night before, because for my for me, I will do an exfoliating mask and then an overnight hydration mask into the day of.

[50:57] Wow.

[50:58] Shani Hadjian: Um, and I have like a list of some um masks and stuff, but so then that goes into the day of also the day before drink water because don't know if you know hydration comes from the day before, not necessarily the day of.

[51:14] So drink lots of water simply because well honestly, always drink lots of water. Start start two weeks ahead.

[51:21] Shani Hadjian: Start now, friends. You're thinking of getting a headshots in six years, start drinking water. This is the time.

[51:26] Oh my god.

[51:26] Shani Hadjian: The difference I started drinking a gallon of water in 2019, a gallon a day. I could you not, I noticed a huge difference in my face.

[51:35] Wow.

[51:35] Shani Hadjian: Um, also my energy. Um, but yeah, and then like I know that I like to work out in the mornings, it makes me feel less stressed. So I would probably do that.

[51:48] I also feel like it depuffs. Some people have like good roll, they roll their skin or gua sha. Do the things that you like to do um that you feel good about the day of. Try to get sleep.

[52:01] I know that's like the hardest thing because people are like, that's not gonna happen.

[52:05] Shani Hadjian: Try to get some rest. Eat, please do not not eat. Like you're not gonna feel well and you're not gonna be as connected because you're gonna be tired.

[52:19] Um, and bring snacks if you want.

[52:21] Shani Hadjian: Um, and then also like if you are a nervous human, please like bring things that will help you. I had a client, so she did a uh book with a friend shoot, so we had the two of them, and um she brought her like sewing stuff so that when her friend was shooting, yeah, she was sewing, and that calms her.

[52:44] Um people will make playlists.

[52:46] Shani Hadjian: I mean, I play some really good tunes, but if you have songs that you like love and that help, please. If you have a certain tea that helps you, bring it. I've got a lot of tea options here, but also you know what I mean? Like, just do what you need.

[53:04] Um don't be ashamed of that. If you were gonna if you were going to set, if you were gonna be um a guest star and you had five days on set, and you were, I mean, I have something that I would bring into my dressing room. I would probably bring that to a headshot session, you know.

[53:20] Yeah, yeah.

[53:22] Shani Hadjian: Like it helps if it helps, it helps. Don't bring but don't bring like a whole luggage case of stuff. Someone moves into your home, you're like, This is.

[53:33] I brought all my crystals with me.

[53:35] Shani Hadjian: In this weather too, and be like, all right, here I am hauling pounds of crystals. Just one crystal is fine.

[53:40] Great.

[53:40] Shani Hadjian: Um, but yeah. Those are, those are like people always ask, like, what can I do physically? Just that it's simple. Don't change anything drastically, but drink water and moisturize your face.

[53:53] Amazing.

[53:54] Jennifer Apple: Um, is there anything else on your heart that you would like to share about this conversation?

[54:01] Shani Hadjian: It is a really tricky thing. It is something that feels like a lot of pressure for headshots. And um I just I would just like to pass on that our lives are way much like way more than this.

[54:21] And to me, that brings solace. To me, I have found the things that bring me joy outside of what I look like.

[54:29] Yeah.

[54:30] Shani Hadjian: And it's hard. And um also it feels like there's a lot of pressure that you're uh you need a head, like specific headshot to get you in the room.

[54:41] And it's not necessarily that it is your relationships, it is um like nurturing those with uh friends who are gonna pass on your name with casting directors that you have given solid um self-tapes nowadays for that will keep bringing you in no matter what your headshot like it really try to take the pressure off yourself, try to find the fun in it, like you do with auditions.

[55:10] I know that though, you know, we can sometimes find the fun in that because it's like a minute and a half of us uh um performing and kind of think of headshots the same way. It's something that we have to do.

[55:20] Um and it can be it can be liberating, it can be really motivating, it can be fun.

[55:29] Uh so try to take that pressure off.

[55:33] Jennifer Apple: I love it. Um thank you for all of the wisdom and clarity that you shared in this time. If anybody wants to work with you or your artists that you work with, or if people want to collaborate or what have you, we didn't even talk about your other hats that you wear, but what would you like to plug in this moment within your boundaries of communication?

[55:55] Shani Hadjian: Oh gosh. Okay. Well, you can find me on Instagram at Shani Hadjian photography.

[56:02] Um, just kind of hard to spell.

[56:05] Shani Hadjian: S-H-A-N-I-H-A-D-J-I-A-N photography. We'll also have the link in the show notes.

[56:10] Great.

[56:10] Shani Hadjian: Oh, great. Thank you so much. Uh and um then my website is very useful, photography.shanihadjian.com. Those are probably the two most frequented places that you can learn about me.

[56:28] Um emails, photos at shanihadjian.com, but that's everywhere on those social media places.

[56:34] Shani Hadjian: I made a list of resources of people that I know and like.

[56:38] Okay.

[56:39] Shani Hadjian: Um acting classes, I love audition arts. Acting coach, Shannon Marie Sullivan, dialect coaches, Carrie Saffron, and then also Amy Joe Jackson, who I know you have on the show.

[56:49] Yeah, we did.

[56:50] Shani Hadjian: Um, other photographer that I am obsessed with, and um love is human, and by j photography, director and cinematographer if you need a real or if you have a film need made is Natalia Bugadellis.

[57:04] All these people like I follow, you can find them from my site, um, from my Instagram.

[57:09] Shani Hadjian: And then my makeup artists are Tina Scariano, Brighty Coughlin, Kayleigh Weir, Carly Hughes, and Dottie Peterson, who are all tagged in like every single one of my photos.

[57:18] Shani Hadjian: And I just had to put out all of those amazing uh female and non-binary um people to start.

[57:24] Obsessed.

[57:25] Shani Hadjian: Obsessed here in this space is like my favorite thing when people are like, these are resources, and it's just like y'all. The reason you can go back on a podcast is you can stop and start this thing a gazillion times and like be like, what was it? What this was uh okay, got it, I got it, got it.

[57:37] Um thank you for that.

[57:38] Jennifer Apple: We love a plug, we love a share, we love making community stronger by working with great people, because why would we withhold that is really my philosophy on that.

[57:47] So amen.

[57:48] Jennifer Apple: Um, thank you so much for being here with us in this community and sharing in this way.

[57:55] Um demystifying. I feel like a lot is, you know, there's like these assumptions, and yes, you're one human being, and I imagine other photographers would have their opinions, but like I value yours, so that's why you're here.

[58:08] And um, I'm grateful that you shared in this way.

[58:11] Shani Hadjian: Thank you for having me and for creating this space.

[58:14] Jennifer Apple: Thank you.

[58:18] Jennifer Apple: Now, before you tune out this episode, Shani has been so gracious and is offering an Empowered Artist Collective discount code for anybody who decides to book with them after this episode.

[58:29] So use EAC10 for 10% off any package on Shani's website.

[58:35] And all of that information is linked in our show notes.

[58:37] Now, if you like this episode, please like, rate, follow, and most importantly, review us.

[58:43] This allows us to reach other individuals who want to be having these conversations as well.

[58:47] If you didn't like it, just let it all slide.

[58:50] If you have not yet done so, please follow us on Instagram at Empowered Artist Collective, on TikTok at Empowered Artist Collective, and more on our website at EmpoweredArtistCollective.com.

[59:00] Plus, if you're seeking some merch, we got you. That's also linked in the show notes below.

[59:04] Jennifer Apple: As always, I am so grateful that you keep on coming back, and we will be back again next week. Until then.